Back to Real Estate

Good news on the interest rate front

Mango avatar
MangoSoWal Insider
9,935 views
My opinion was the Feds have tightened too much already- maybe we will see some more real estate market activity.


U.S. Treasuries Gain After Bernanke Says `Moderation' Under Way
July 19 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. 10-year note yields fell the most in six weeks after Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said ``moderation'' is under way in the economy, fueling speculation the bank will pause in lifting interest rates.

Traders bought Treasuries as Bernanke, in testimony to Congress, said policy makers must take into account ``the possible future effects of previous policy actions,'' while also remaining on guard against inflation. Treasuries fell earlier after a government report showed consumer prices excluding fuel and food rose in June by more than economists forecast.

``More people are betting on the notion that the Fed may be pausing sooner rather than later,'' said David Glocke, who manages $30 billion in Treasuries for Vanguard Group Inc. in Malvern, Pennsylvania. ``I would have anticipated a little more focus on the inflation front but there's more real estate devoted to the slowing in the economy.''

The yield on the benchmark 10-year note dropped about 8 basis points, or 0.08 percentage point, to 5.05 percent at 2:07 p.m. in New York, according to bond broker Cantor Fitzgerald LP. It was the biggest drop since June 2. The two-year note yield fell about 8 basis points to 5.10 percent.

The price of the 5 1/8 percent note due May 2016 rose 5/8, or $6.25 per $1,000 face amount, to 100 17/32. The note's price moves inversely to its yield.

Growth Outlook

Gross domestic product, which expanded at an annual rate of 5.6 percent in the first quarter, will probably cool to grow from 3.25 percent to 3.5 percent this year and 3 percent to 3.25 percent next year, according to Fed forecasts published today.

``Investors are looking at the economic outlook and changing their opinions on the marketplace,'' said Richard Volpe, head of U.S. government bond trading at Bear Stearns & Co. in New York. ``If you look at the forward assumptions in the economic outlook they were weaker than we anticipated.''

Treasury trading volume surged today, according to data from ICAP Plc, the world's largest broker of trades between banks. Volume was $290.5 billion as of 2 p.m., approaching the amount for the full day yesterday when it reached $293 billion, which was the most since June 14, and above the six-month average of $253 billion.

The Fed next sets rates on Aug. 8. Interest-rate futures showed traders see a 59 percent chance the Fed will lift rates a quarter-percentage point to 5.5 percent next month, down from above 80 percent odds after the consumer price report. The Fed has lifted borrowing costs at its past 17 meetings.

Bearish Bias

Investors in Treasuries were the most bearish in three weeks in the week through July 17, according to a JPMorgan Chase & Co. index released yesterday.

Bernanke said policy makers must be on guard against ``persistently higher inflation.'' At the same time, the Fed doesn't want to ``tighten too much,'' he said in his testimony.

The Labor Department said consumer prices rose 0.2 percent in June, after a 0.4 percent increase the month before. The median estimate of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News was for a 0.2 percent jump. Excluding food and energy, prices rose 0.3 percent, the same as May, and beating the median forecast for a 0.2 percent increase.

Goldman, Sachs & Co. economists today raised their forecast for the fed funds rate a quarter-percentage point to 5.5 percent, saying today's inflation report and remarks from Bernanke make it less likely policy makers will pause.

Less Aggressive

Investors interpreted the Fed chairman's remarks as less aggressive on raising interest rates, said Don Alexander, director of fixed-income and currency strategy in New York for Citibank Private Bank, which manages $222 billion.

``The Fed may need to do something more. But maybe not as much as people had thought,'' said Alexander. ``He's not coming through as very aggressive about raising rates.''

Two-year Treasuries yielded about 5 basis points more than 10-year notes, according to Bloomberg data. This so-called inversion of the yields may indicate that traders believe the economy will slow, and the Fed may be forced to cut interest rates.

Ten-year yields fell as low as 5.04 percent on July 14 amid escalating violence in the Middle East.

Losses earlier today were also tempered by a report showing U.S. homebuilders started work on fewer homes in June.

Housing starts fell 5.3 percent to an annual rate of 1.850 million, the Commerce Department said. Building permits, a sign of future construction, fell 4.3 percent to a 1.862 million rate, a three-year low.

``The housing numbers may be a typical example of where the Fed goes a little too far'' raising rates, said E. Craig Coats Jr., co-head of fixed income at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods Inc. in New York.



To contact the reporter on this story:
Michael McDonald in New York at
mmcdonald10@bloomberg.net;
Deborah Finestone in New York at
dfinestone@bloomberg.net.

Replies

69
6thGen avatar
6thGenBeach Fanatic
#52
Probably ride the coattails of the surfer wallet craze a bit longer but he'll continue to laugh all the way to bank as he does so. :lol: His simplicity has worked in his favor, although I too am annoyed at how he ties his personal stories into his "advice". But, he paints it simple for us simple folk and has been right on about pretty much everything he talks about of late which works for me. I also don't have expensive degrees or a lofty title to protect so I'm not intimidated by his approach and can read his column with an open-mind and perspective.

P.S. For the record, I haven't ever read this guy's books - just happened upon his column a month or so ago and what I've read has made sense to me.

I've linked an article below, and there have been several of the like in the WSJ and the like as well. I've always found it better when authors quote Friedman rather than some second rate hippie professor.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGE4M2RlMDM1MmI0OGM1M2ViMGQ4MWUyYzc2YmEyZWU=
spinDrAtlBeach Fanatic
#53
Many of the same speculators who got caught up in the stock market bubble are the same people who are now caught up in the real estate frenzy.

Do you know these people?

Add to those folks the home owners who cashed out equity to finance "bread and circuses," the people who were able to borrow large sums of money just by "fogging a mirror" using NINA (no income no assets) or "liar loans."

Wrong. A NINA loan is not a 'liar loan' as you call it. These loans are typically available to people with top credit scores that were built by paying their debts on time and in full. These customers are not required to provide income/asset documentation due to the fact their lofty credit scores satisfy the lenders that they will pay their debts.

And then the worse case of all--those who have daisy chains of houses who bought a $90,000 shack for nothing down, cashed out inflated equity, used that equity to buy 2 more homes, cashed out equity, used that equity to qualify for 2 condos and 2 pieces of land, etc., etc.

Nothing wrong with this unless fraud is involved.

HomeOWERS who cashed out equity in their homes or paid sky-high prices based on fantasy appraisals in a hot-hot-hot market may have to bring a check to closing because they find they are underwater on their loan--now that is a bad "investment."

Personal responsibility is a b*tch, ain't it. Fraud aside, some folks just make bad decisions.
Indigo JillBeach Fanatic
#54
The "peak oil" concept hasn't gone too mainstream yet. I'm not sure I buy into the doomsday scenario, but I do agree that it's a major long term concern, not just because of politics but because -- from what I understand, and someone correct me if I'm wrong -- the countries that do control the oil are not required to disclose exactly how much they believe they have left. So no one knows when the peak might be. Since our entire economy depends on oil, the implications are frightening. Mostly it makes me worry about my grandchildren. Here's the article that got me thinking, from Fortune magazine no less. Long but interesting:

Investing genius Richard Rainwater is freaked out

As far as the oil crisis goes, I'm not so concerned about running out of oil as I am about the economic consequences we could see with a greatly diminished supply - remember the billions of people in China and India with the evolving ability to afford cars and such? It's our reliance on oil at this point in time and all the other things going on in the economy simultaneously (the real estate/housing mess, devaluing of the dollar, our collective debt as a country, etc. etc.) that have me spooked. I have confidence in the human race, though, to innovate and come up with a viable solution - and I won't buy into the doomsday scenarios. I just fear the process won't happen quick enough and as we all know, desperate people do desperate things. I don't want to be witness to that.

If nothing else, we just need the discussion to start as Mr. Rainwater stated.
Babyblue avatar
BabyblueBeach Fanatic
#55
My God, I don't get all this blah, blah, blah...How can an economy w/less than 5% unemployment, a moderating gdp of 3-3.25%, a downwardly revised deficit, at the top end of a rate cycle equate to all this "down in the mouth" postulating...Shelly, you are unbelievable...How is the Fed pausing uncharted territory (I can't imagine why they think your stupid)...that's what you get after a RAISING CYCLE - A CUTTING CYCLE...A great many "true" economists call these situations Goldilocks

Bob, if oil prices keep going up how can rates do anything but come down...the market will be doing the Fed's job for them and they'll be forced to cut...the Middle East has been screwed up for 60 years, this time is no different except that by giving the Iranians a bloody nose maybe they'll slow expansion...

The feds have blown it again just like they did with the stock market in late 90's. The party is over and the fat lady is singing! :funn:
redfisher avatar
redfisherBeach Fanatic
#56
Babyblue, please quantify...
Sandcastle avatar
SandcastleBeach Fanatic
#57
Richard Rainwater is truly a genius, and he?s had a lot more winners than losers. However; not everything he touches turns to gold, at least not for other investors. He founded CEI (Crescent Real Estate Investment Trust) to buy properties in Houston. I?ve been underwater on that one for years ? but it?s done better than Enron.:idontno:



A very good friend of mine worked for Rainwater and the Basses. He has nothing but praise for Rainwater.
SHELLY avatar
SHELLYSoWal Insider
#58
Richard Rainwater is truly a genius, and he?s had a lot more winners than losers. However; not everything he touches turns to gold, at least not for other investors. He founded CEI (Crescent Real Estate Investment Trust) to buy properties in Houston. I?ve been underwater on that one for years ? but it?s done better than Enron.:idontno:


My checking account interest has done better Enron 😀
goofer avatar
gooferBeach Fanatic
#59
I am bullish on American ingenuity and resourcefulness. We will muddle through all these obstacles as we have always done in the last hundred years through hot AND cold wars. Innovation and new technologies will be the problem solvers as they always have been. And many of these innovations will be coming from the Far East and from India too. The profit motive is the greatest of all incentivizers. As far as the death knell in real estate and banking.....I think their demise is a bit premature. Part of the normal business cycle. We survived the RTC debacle of the 80's.....the debacle of the over leverage hedge funds like Long Term Capital and the currency fiascos of Asia and Russia of the late 90's. Whatever the next financial calamity will be, and there always is one lurking out there, we will survive it and move on. That is the way the "system" heals itself. Life goes on and opportunities always present themselves. Stay Tuned.
SHELLY avatar
SHELLYSoWal Insider
#60
Do you know these people? .

I know a few--and I think one or two of them are still convinced that "Grandpop" really can pull a quarter out of their ear :blink: .

Wrong. A NINA loan is not a 'liar loan' as you call it. .

The operative word in the statement was NINA "or" Liar's Loans--I explained NINA after the statement and I'm pretty sure a goodly amount of the viewing audience know what liar's loans are ;-) . I also know that both have been used during the RE boom a wee too much for comfort and in some cases stretched beyond the limits of intention and the law.

Personal responsibility is a b*tch, ain't it. Fraud aside, some folks just make bad decisions.

Yeah, during the boom there's been a good amount of fraud and much stupidity...But since "stupid" is still legal in 50 states (and the D.C. area, which is ground zero), I guess there will always some way to part a fool from their money (interest-only and option ARMs spring to mind).

But as they say in the biz:

INTEREST: The financial process whereby money is transferred from stupid people to smart people.
Mango avatar
MangoSoWal InsiderAuthor
#61
The operative word in the statement was NINA "or" Liar's Loans--I explained NINA after the statement and I'm pretty sure a goodly amount of the viewing audience know what liar's loans are ;-) . I also know that both have been used during the RE boom a wee too much for comfort and in some cases stretched beyond the limits of intention and the law.

What law are you referring too? :roll:
and FYI- a good many loans came on my desk as full doc loans, but when uploaded to FNMA or Freddie Mac (government agencies 😱 ) for a feedback response- if the credit scores were good, they put down a decent DP and had good employment history, the only thing the Bank would require is an appraisal, contract and then verified the person worked at closing. They didn't ask for paystubs, 401k or copy of savings acct. etc.

I think it is a bit presumptuous for you to imply that everyone on this thread or Board knows what a "liar loan" is. :bang:

Of course there was misuse of this loan, and the stupid LO's or Bankers that took these loans in repeatedly do get investigated, fined and even incarcerated by the FBI.

and once again, we are back discussing the real estate services industry. :pissed:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, let's try not to be vicious folks.
Bob avatar
BobSoWal Insider
#62
Mango, Shelly paints with a big brush. Based on her statements about "interest", she may be NINA.
redfisher avatar
redfisherBeach Fanatic
#63
Personal responsibility is a b*tch, ain't it. Fraud aside, some folks just make bad decisions.


Finally, all this talk over I/O's, losses, overextensions...Where is the individuals responsibility to take control over his own actions...If your in a "malaise", its because you choose to be there...

By the way, I love I/O's....
spinDrAtlBeach Fanatic
#64
Sometimes when there is a term or acronym used followed by "or" and another possibly unknown term, it could be misconstrued as implying "also known as", which I guess I did on the NINA or Liar's Loans statement.

There is nothing wrong with any of these types of loans when used responsibly - i/o, option arms, nina's, stated income, etc. People with 720 or 800 credit scores that can qualify for these types of loans did not get credit scores like that by being stupid.

I've got an interest only loan on an investment property right now. I got the property at auction a couple years back, took some equity out of a second home that had appreciated considerably with a no closing cost equity line. Total loan to value on that property is around 33% now. This allowed me to pay cash for the new property, avoiding a bunch of closing costs on that one. Yes, the rate has gone up some, but the interest only payment is lower than any fixed rate I could/can get and the low payment allows this property to cash flow while it appreciates (which it has already). I'm not going to own this newer property for 15 years so I don't care about paying the principal - I'm concerned about positive cash flow.

Again, personal responsibility is a key issue. Just because someone will let you sign a contract doesn't mean you should do it.
bdc63Beach Fanatic
#66
GDP numbers released Friday ...




July 28, 2006

GDP growth slows, housing continues to weaken

by EPI economist L. Josh Bivens

Economic growth slowed to 2.5% in the second quarter of 2006, down from 5.6% in the previous quarter, according to data released today on gross domestic product (GDP) from the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA).

The deceleration in GDP was broad-based. Personal consumption expenditures grew 2.5% in the latest quarter, following a 4.8% growth rate in the previous quarter. Private investment growth fell to 1.7% following the previous quarter's 7.8% growth. Export growth slowed to 3.3% from the previous quarter's 14.0%, and growth in federal government expenditures actually declined 3.4% compared to 8.8% growth in the previous quarter.

Residential investment contracted for the third straight quarter, and by a large 6.3%. This is the first three-quarter span of residential investment decline, and, the largest quarterly decline since 1995. There seem to be strong signs that the housing sector in the U.S. economy will no longer be providing a big boost to the aggregate economy in the near future. The figure below shows the growth rate of residential investment and its share in GDP in recent years, pointing to a sharp slowdown in this sector's contribution to growth. A key question about the economic outlook for the next year will be the degree to which other sectors can take up this slack.



Net exports (exports minus imports) contributed slightly to growth this quarter. Export growth was only 3.3%, but import growth was almost flat (rising only 0.2%). The result was a 0.33% contribution to GDP growth this quarter. While small, this is a good sign: net exports will surely have to take up some of the slack generated by a declining housing market referenced above.

The 1.6% growth in domestic demand (i.e., final sales to domestic purchasers) was a marked slowdown relative to the 5.4% reported for the previous quarter. Real disposable personal income grew less than 1% (on an annualized basis) in this quarter. Despite the slowdown in domestic demand, the savings rate of U.S. households continued to be negative (-1.5%)?marking the fifth straight quarter of negative household savings rates.

Core annualized inflation (i.e., inflation in market-based personal consumption expenditures minus food and energy prices) spiked upwards to 2.7% for the quarter, compared to 1.6% the previous quarter. While this spike may spur some to argue for interest rate hikes by the Federal Reserve to stem this inflationary pressure, the slow growth rate reported in this quarter argues otherwise. GDP in the second quarter essentially grew only as fast as productivity, which is a recipe for anemic job and wage growth in the future.

On this score, today's GDP report also includes annual revisions that show labor income growth was slower between 2003 and 2005 than previously estimated, and another government release today?the Employment Compensation Index?shows year-over-year declines in inflation-adjusted wages of 1.2%. All in all, recent labor market trends (the rapid deceleration of job growth in the last quarter) should be weighed at least as heavily as the inflation number in this report by monetary policy makers.

Today's BEA report shows signs that the economy is undergoing a transition from an economy based on strong domestic demand and a booming housing market to one that will have to rely more on net export growth in the near future. This adjustment will also require strong growth in wages and salaries to support consumption while also allowing some household savings. Though showing some encouraging signs, this report does not allay all concerns that the adjustment over the medium-term will be painless
​
Mango avatar
MangoSoWal InsiderAuthor
#67
Good article :clap_1: Thanks for sharing. Another reason why the Feds may not tighten again at the next meeting. I also own a headhunting firm with my sister and we specialize in manufacturing, (this business is up when mortgages are down, so they balance) We have had job orders and placements increase dramatically in the past 6 months.
SHELLY avatar
SHELLYSoWal Insider
#68
Good article :clap_1: Thanks for sharing. Another reason why the Feds may not tighten again at the next meeting.

I wouldn't pop those champagne corks just yet.... :cool:
Mango avatar
MangoSoWal InsiderAuthor
#69
:confused: Simply noted that it was a good article. I didn't say it was positive.
But we do pop champagne corks with our manufacturing executives who are placed in well paying jobs they are happy with and the commissions do not stink either! :lol:
bdc63Beach Fanatic
#70
Personal Income and Spending data released yesterday ...

PI prior 0.4,now 0.6
PS prior 0.6, now 0.4

from msn money:

The worrisome inflation numbers

The government's numbers on personal spending and the price component in the Institute of Supply Management's manufacturing survey put traders "in a foul mood," CNBC's Bob Pisani reported. The year-over-year rise in one of the Fed's favorite inflation gauges pushed the probability of an interest rate hike next week higher before the bell.

The core PCE index -- personal consumption expenditures excluding food and energy prices -- rose 0.2% in June, the Commerce Department reported. The rise was in line with economists' expectations, but compared with last year, the core PCE index is up 2.4%. That's the largest rise since April 1996.

The probability of a quarter-point interest rate hike, based on fed funds futures contracts trading on the Chicago Board of Trade, rose to 40% from below 30% at Thursday's close.

And shortly after the opening bell, the ISM said the prices-paid component of its manufacturing activity index rose to 78.5 in July from 76.5 in June. Economists surveyed by Bloomberg had predicted a drop to 75.2.

Checking your forum account

Please wait while we verify your forum account.