Employment Growth

Welcome to Florida!

(1) Sure we've got TONS of jobs!!

(2) What's that? You want to make enough money to pay rent, gas, insurance, etc.? AND have a life?

(3) Oh, well, then....for that you'll need about 3 jobs, but no worries...we've got TONS jobs!!

(4) Forget about the part of having a "life" though.

Welcome to Florida! Now, put on that paper hat and let me show you how to work the deep fat fryer.

Welcome to Florida!

(1) Sure we've got TONS of jobs!!

(2) What's that? You want to make enough money to pay rent, gas, insurance, etc.? AND have a life?

(3) Oh, well, then....for that you'll need about 3 jobs, but no worries...we've got TONS jobs!!

(4) Forget about the part of having a "life" though.

Welcome to Florida! Now, put on that paper hat and let me show you how to work the deep fat fryer.

Shelly, if Florida is such a bad place, if you live there, why don't you leave and go to a place you believe is nicer and happier and more fair to people? I'm assuming you have options. Perhaps you're here because you're taking care of elderly parents, family business, or doing something important that holds you back from leaving. Perhaps you're here because you're actively taking positive steps in your day-to-day life to change the things about the area that you don't like. :idontno:

It must be so sad for you to be in a place that inspires you to post so many cynical and critical messages -- and to rush to counter a positive post with negative sarcasm. :( There are probably many places in the world that would make you happier -- unless you just take that worldview wherever you go.

There's lots of room in Florida (including the Panhandle and around SoWal) for people of different incomes and backgrounds who would find it a lovely and uplifting place for them to build a future. :wub: It's clearly not a good fit for everyone.

Thanks for the useful post, Cork. Of course, there are multiple sides to any story, but your post is helpful to read.

I agree that life would be more pleasant to close one's eyes, have a drink, or take a pill and forget the "cares of the world."

Sometimes to find balance one must offset the "pollyanna view" with "harsh reality." In between the two is where reality exists.

The reality is that more and more honest, hard-working individuals in our area are finding it difficult to achieve and maintain a decent lifestyle. So kick back and enjoy Florida living....have a drink, take a pill...but for pete's sake, leave a tip for the maid--$6.50 per hour doesn't go as far as it used to in SoWal.

I agree that life would be more pleasant to close one's eyes, have a drink, or take a pill and forget the "cares of the world."

Sometimes to find balance one must offset the "pollyanna view" with "harsh reality." In between the two is where reality exists.

The reality is that more and more honest, hard-working individuals in our area are finding it difficult to achieve and maintain a decent lifestyle. So kick back and enjoy Florida living....have a drink, take a pill...but for pete's sake, leave a tip for the maid--$6.50 per hour doesn't go as far as it used to in SoWal.

I think we hang around different kinds of people. I don't see many people in SoWal or elsewhere closing their eyes, drinking and popping pills to forget the cares of the world. So, you must be hanging around in different circles than I hang around in so your circles may bring you closer to this kind of behavior. Or you may not be seeing the many good people around you who care about the well-being of others, yet may be doing their work quietly without drawing attention to themselves or their good works -- so you have to look more carefully at what they are offering (and avoid stereotyping based on more visible characteristics). Nor do I see a lot of Pollyannas. Mostly I hang out with people (friends and family of all income and educational levels) who think broadly and can hold and discuss multiple perspectives at the same time (it's called cognitive complexity and is essential to wise decision-making and the ability to help others). In my life and wherever I go, I see mostly honest, hard-working individuals. I see greedy, non-caring people as the exception and focus my attention instead on the good people who actively work to make the world a better place.

Anyway, I'm sure (or at least I hope) that there are many places in the world where you would be able to see more good people. Not that those places would necessarily be populated with more good people than SoWal/Florida, but your lenses on SoWal and Florida seem to be too clouded to see many of the good hearted, hard working people right around you. In my view, life is too short and too precious to waste one's time in places or with people that bring out such cynicism. The thought of it sends chills down my spine. 😱

It's indeed hard for decent, hardworking people to make a living in many places (I'm in the midwest where layoffs in the auto industry are rampant). Cynicism doesn't seem to be helpful. It gets tiresome just when people need the support and energy to move forward and find solutions.

In my view, life is too short and too precious to waste one's time in places or with people that bring out such cynicism. The thought of it sends chills down my spine. 😱

It's indeed hard for decent, hardworking people to make a living in many places (I'm in the midwest where layoffs in the auto industry are rampant). Cynicism doesn't seem to be helpful. It gets tiresome just when people need the support and energy to move forward and find solutions.

Well put Paula!

Shelly--Just curious. You may have stated this at another time, on another thread but would you mind saying what your major is in (I believe you have said you're in the process of researching your thesis and that said research involves studying the real estate market).

In previous threads I got the impression (perhaps erroneous) that it is somehow business related.

Great post Paula!!!

I have been here for a little over 5 years and have worked with people making 2.13 an hour to making 400,000 + a year. There is something for everyone in all walks of life here. It is expensive to live here but I have adjusted my spending habits and know what to do and where to go. Look around... where we live is BEAUTIFUL and worth the extra we pay. I remind myself of that everyday when I cross the Phillips Inlet bridge going West around sunset.....

I think we hang around different kinds of people. I don't see many people in SoWal or elsewhere closing their eyes, drinking and popping pills to forget the cares of the world. So, you must be hanging around in different circles than I hang around in so your circles may bring you closer to this kind of behavior. Or you may not be seeing the many good people around you who care about the well-being of others, yet may be doing their work quietly without drawing attention to themselves or their good works -- so you have to look more carefully at what they are offering (and avoid stereotyping based on more visible characteristics). Nor do I see a lot of Pollyannas. Mostly I hang out with people (friends and family of all income and educational levels) who think broadly and can hold and discuss multiple perspectives at the same time (it's called cognitive complexity and is essential to wise decision-making and the ability to help others). In my life and wherever I go, I see mostly honest, hard-working individuals. I see greedy, non-caring people as the exception and focus my attention instead on the good people who actively work to make the world a better place.

Anyway, I'm sure (or at least I hope) that there are many places in the world where you would be able to see more good people. Not that those places would necessarily be populated with more good people than SoWal/Florida, but your lenses on SoWal and Florida seem to be too clouded to see many of the good hearted, hard working people right around you. In my view, life is too short and too precious to waste one's time in places or with people that bring out such cynicism. The thought of it sends chills down my spine. 😱

It's indeed hard for decent, hardworking people to make a living in many places (I'm in the midwest where layoffs in the auto industry are rampant). Cynicism doesn't seem to be helpful. It gets tiresome just when people need the support and energy to move forward and find solutions.

Sometimes to find balance one must offset the "pollyanna view" with "harsh reality." In between the two is where reality exists.

I disagree. Extreme points of view (on either side of an issue) simply get 'tuned-out' by most people.

If you indeed care about drawing attention to issues in our area, then present us with some well thought out analysis/solutions -otherwise we are left wondering whether you really care about helping with these issues or are you just expressing views as a means to flex your witty cynacism.

I appreciate all the concern for my well-being, but believe it or not I feel I am blessed in so many ways--and believe it or not, I don't dwell 24/7 on the very, very few things that do concern me. I share joy with my friends and family and I even make a *****in' chocolate fudge cheesecake that would make ya slap yo' mama.

I like debating some issues in a way that encourages feedback--there are a few people (still about 5) who give me some very constructive feedback that challenges me to dig deeper to research the issues and help me support or discard the argument (or check my spelling-- :cool:).

The economics upheaval of our state as a result of the RE Boom is the focus of my research. The information I gather from "official sources" conflicts wildly with information I've been gathering through interviews with employees and employers--some sad stories from good folks (young and old) trying to eek out a living for their families as of late have been heartbreaking to say the least. (And they're not all SUV-drivin', Plasma-TV-watchin', put-everything-on-plastic folks either--although there are some among them--and among the area's "seemingly rich and famous" too.)

Several months ago I was a bit concerned about the area employee shortage. But it appears the solution is on the way as the real estate industry continues to cool and frees up a bunch of folks in the area (for the present time) as well as when the "guest workers" bill is adopted (for the long term)--so no problem there. (Although the county will have to work on "guest workers" barracks within bussing distance.)

And finally I reached the stage of "acceptance" when it comes to the destruction of our beaches and the turtles--I've concluded there's nothing that can be done to save them in this area (Too bad, but I've got wonderful memories of decades gone by.)

Think I'll go have a cold one, kick back and take a nap...my work is done for the day--life is good. :wub:

...............
The economics upheaval of our state as a result of the RE Boom is the focus of my research. The information I gather from "official sources" conflicts wildly with information I've been gathering through interviews with employees and employers--some sad stories from good folks (young and old) trying to eek out a living for their families as of late have been heartbreaking to say the least. ................

Curious how your interview questions are phrased? Everyone knows survey or polling questions are sometimes leading.
From reading your posts, I imagine it would be hard for you to interview someone without showing your bias. Surveys that are done looking for a certain outcome are useless. You seem to have an agenda already determined with your research.
You pointed out that information from "official sources" doesn't fit what you are personally hearing. (Maybe the "official sources" were looking to substantiate whatever it is they thought ..... Not good. But can you say that your interviews are scientific and without any bias?
:idontno: Hopefully so.

Glad you have a good life, Shelly. You had a few of us worried!

As for your comment, "I like debating some issues in a way that encourages feedback--there are a few people (still about 5) who give me some very constructive feedback that challenges me to dig deeper to research the issues and help me support or discard the argument (or check my spelling-- )", the cynicism and sarcasm in this comment has not been lost. I think there was a dig at realtors and "guest workers" as well. You managed to fit several digs into a post that I think was supposed to show your more positive side!

Of course, perhaps I misunderstood one of your points (I'm tired so that's entirely possible). I thought you were saying that out of all the people who give you feedback, only about 5 provide you with something you think is very constructive. Most people are able to get constructive feedback from a lot more people than that if they really want it because there are a lot of smart people in the world who enjoy a good debate. Just a thought -- perhaps it's the way you frame the discussion or respond to other people's comments (or listen to others) that's stopping all this constructive feedback from reaching you? :idontno: In my experience, the challenge for most researchers is that they get so much constructive feedback from so many people that they have to close themselves off for a while to stop and make sense of it all! So, you'd want to ask yourself why you're not having the same problem.

Rita: Sounds like you know that researchers who publish their research in scholarly journals are trained to identify and admit the potential biases and limitations of their research, to acknowledge alternative points of view, and to state what they learn in somewhat tentative terms because they want to leave the discussion open for new ideas. Otherwise, the article won't get published in a top journal. (I don't think Shelly said the research he or she is conducting is scholarly research, though.)

Love your posts, Paula!!! Keep 'em coming.

Thanks, Gypsea. The concern I had that really triggered my response was that Cork posted an article that was intended to be useful and inspire some thought and discussion -- and had a view that suggested that SoWal may have some good times ahead.

Within a short time, Shelly enthusiastically came in with a caustic and snide response (again) that literally (really) sent a few chills down my spine because I wondered (sadly) where such a caustic view of the world came from. It certainly didn't seem like it was based in goodwill or meant to be constructive feedback to inspire further discussion. And it seemed like it would be such a demoralizing and unhelpful message to people, especially for people who don't make much money and/or who are trying to build a life in Walton county or Florida -- and these are the people that Shelly says he or she cares about. I just couldn't contain my response (Ok, I could have but chose not to...).

And, as a researcher, I'm a tad sensitive to people who use the word "research" loosely. I'm well aware that scholarly research is by far not the only useful way to gain and give out knowledge. Many journalists, storytellers, photographers, and musicians can tell stories that help us understand ourselves, others, the world, and our choices in ways that scholarly research can't touch. For example that photodocumentary by Fowlkes that Shelly posted on another thread is stunning -- clearly a case of a picture paints a thousand words. Of course, there are researchers who could find flaws in Fowlkes presentation and logic, but he definitely did a great job of presenting his perspective, stimulating discussion, and perhaps inspiring action. And I would hope he's the kind of person who would welcome critical discussion of his presentation but he would see it as an opportunity to learn and to help the community come to better solutions.

The economics upheaval of our state as a result of the RE Boom is the focus of my research. The information I gather from "official sources" conflicts wildly with information I've been gathering through interviews with employees and employers--some sad stories from good folks (young and old) trying to eek out a living for their families as of late have been heartbreaking to say the least. (And they're not all SUV-drivin', Plasma-TV-watchin', put-everything-on-plastic folks either--although there are some among them--and among the area's "seemingly rich and famous" too.)

Ok, I've got it narrowed down to either Economics or Sociology (a la Studs Terkel). Am I right?

I'm having a cup of tea and thanking you for brightening my morning! 😀

Your posts are well thought out and insightful -- keep them coming.

And if I may, sometime when at the beach I'd love to pour one for you!

Thanks, Gypsea. The concern I had that really triggered my response was that Cork posted an article that was intended to be useful and inspire some thought and discussion -- and had a view that suggested that SoWal may have some good times ahead.

Within a short time, Shelly enthusiastically came in with a caustic and snide response (again)

Thanks Paula and the rest of you for stepping in. To be honest, Ive spent little time on the real estate board because of the persistent negativity. I welcome factual information as everyone does but stirring up trouble for the sake of it, is no where I want to be. My belief is to surround myself in beauty and the happy things in life which I've found makes me happier. Sticking my head in the sand - probably, but I'm one of the first to the bat when a change can be made. The placebo effect (the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in health not attributable to treatment) of positive thinking is well documented and if people choose to live differently that's their choice. After much wasted time bantering unwarranted negative posts, I've decided to ignore the constant negativity as I don't think you can change the mindset of anybody but yourself so that's who I work on 😀 .

Thanks, Rita. Sounds like a great idea!

And Cork, I had the same reaction you did which is why I responded to Shelly's enthusiastically hostile post.

For example, "Welcome to Florida! Now, put on that paper hat and let me show you how to work the deep fat fryer" -- now that was uncalled for. I think a lot of people who read that statement cringed. Not only was it verbal sniping, it was insulting to good people who are trying to build their lives in Florida or elsewhere and who work deep fat fryers (or who do similar jobs). Someone's work should not be someone else's joke or insult. That comment (and other similar comments that that Shelly has said on this board) just truly seemed insensitive, condescending to the many, many people who do hold those jobs, and meanspirited. Few people think that kind of humor is funny. In short, respect is needed for all kinds of jobs (and honest work) -- and the people who do them. The maid deserve sincere respect as well as a tip. Clearly, I feel passionately about this.

Anyway, I'm moving on and I'm going to head outside and rake the leaves off the flowers that are trying to push through -- 65 degrees, sunny, and not a cloud in the sky in Michigan... :cool:

Thanks, Rita. Sounds like a great idea!

And Cork, I had the same reaction you did which is why I responded to Shelly's enthusiastically hostile post.

For example, "Welcome to Florida! Now, put on that paper hat and let me show you how to work the deep fat fryer" -- now that was uncalled for. I think a lot of people who read that statement cringed. Not only was it verbal sniping, it was insulting to good people who are trying to build their lives in Florida or elsewhere and who work deep fat fryers (or who do similar jobs). Someone's work should not be someone else's joke or insult. That comment (and other similar comments that that Shelly has said on this board) just truly seemed insensitive, condescending to the many, many people who do hold those jobs, and meanspirited. Respect is needed for all kinds of jobs (and honest work) -- and the people who do them. Clearly, I feel passionately about this. After all, the maid deserves sincere respect as well as a tip.

Anyway, I'm moving on and I'm going to head outside and rake the leaves off the flowers that are trying to push through -- 65 degrees, sunny, and not a cloud in the sky in Michigan... :cool:

Paula,

I understand that as a resident of Michigan you will never fully grasp the problems of low-wage/high-cost of living areas that are becoming the norm in many areas of Florida, and the concerns of those who live in the area full-time. (Nor should you...since you come here to play and enjoy yourself. I'm sure Michigan has it's share of financial woes that keep you busy.)

There was an article in Monday's WSJ entitled "Back to Reality" with the byline "As vacation-home markets cool, would-be buyers should take a sober look at the economics of ownership"

A quote from that article sums up the situation:

"Buyers also need to ask about job growth in the area they're considering. If year-round residents can't find work, they won't be able to buy homes. But even if job growth is strong, affordability is important. While part-time residents may not give much thought to where the local teachers, firefighters, police officers and restaurant workers live, they should, many real-estate agents say, because when these workers get priced out of the market, essential services suffer -- and so do home prices. And there's a warning signal here: According to the National Association of Realtors, in the fourth quarter of 2005, housing affordability hit its lowest level since 1991."

Some of my "in your face" comments are what is known as "gallows humor"--eventually the trap door will be sprung and something bad is about to happen. It's just the way I'm wired when it comes to things I feel passionate about-- :idontno:

As far as proximity to some of the situations you describe, Shelly, I do have first-hand experience with some of what you say you are concerned about. You are correct, that it wasn't in Florida, though some life situations are pretty universal even though we like to think they're unique. So, though I live in Michigan, I may not be as far from the situation as you think. And if you've read about Southeastern Michigan, I'm very close to high cost of living, low wage jobs and lots of lay-offs due to the problems with the auto industry. Many people are hurting in Southeastern Michigan. And we have lots of homes that aren't selling and that are going down in price. But, given I don't know the SoWal area as well, I certainly defer the environmental and some of the real estate discussions to people who know much more than I do.

Many of your points are well-taken, Shelly. But some of what you think is humor is insulting rather than funny. Gallows humor isn't always appropriate and I always thought gallows humor was supposed to be directed at oneself, not others, especially because it can be so caustic.

Here's why I'm passionate about wishing you would phrase your comments about people's work and livelihoods with more respect (being respectful doesn't at all hinder one's ability to debate - I think it enhances it). I come from a family that worked the grill/deep fryer for at least two generations. We didn't have to wear the paper hats you glibly mentioned though; we wore hairnets -- board of health rule. You can make a great chocolate cheesecake but I'll bet it can't come close to the great ham and pickle sandwich I can make! (Never mind, your chocolate cheesecake is probably much better, I said that my ham and pickle sandwich would be better for dramatic effect.)

And here's the thing that may be hard for you to believe given the way you joke about lower-wage jobs (or use them as a weapon): Many people don't attach their own self-worth or the worth of others to their jobs and they don't need other people to feel sorry for them. :shock: When my father died (and he worked the grill/deep fryer right up until the day he died), the church was full (so full that not everyone could sit down) because of the respect he earned from the townspeople, customers, and others after serving people for 30 years. They appreciated the work he did and they appreciated him as a person. So, you can see why I have utmost respect for all work and the people who do it -- and you can bet my kids do, too.

Here's what seems odd to me, Shelly: It seems that if someone has a lower-wage job, you target their job to insult and act as though they're victims of something (some are, some aren't). If someone has enough wealth to have a place at the beach, then they become an easy target for you to call greedy and unfamiliar with the reality of life at the other end of the wage scale (some are, some aren't).

Personally, here's my take on it: I've been on both ends of the of the wage scale (well, not at the high end, but the very comfortable end). Today, I wish I could have the opportunity to share the beach in SoWal that I'm privileged to be part of with the people in my family :wub: who worked the grill for 2 generations. I wish they were still around so that after years of working the grill they could sit on the beach with a nice cold drink so that I could say, can I carry your beach chair? Get you another drink? Fold down the sheets for your nap? Get you your pills? When I live well at the beach, or elsewhere, it is in their honor. When I look at the ocean and the sunset, I also see them, sometimes standing by a deep fryer and grill (or sometimes standing by the old juke box if the light from the sunset is just right). And I thank them for teaching me to work hard, serve people well, and not be defined by my work. So be careful of what you say, Shelly, your jokes are sometimes insulting to the people I love - remember I'm half Italian and don't take too kindly to that!

Also remember that when you see a person at the beach sipping a drink or heading off for a nap, don't simply assume that person is a rich, greedy person who is killing turtles and sliding down sand dunes. Remember they may have worked very hard for the privilege of being at the beach and they may respect the environment. You may instead want to feel some joy for their success and offer them a nice cold drink.

Words can be tender or hurtful, Shelly. You seem to be determined to hold onto your right to be insulting and hurtful, but I'm not worried. Heck, I worked the grill for years (as did my family) so I can take the heat. :funn: