Panama City Airport on hold

Here's a link to the brief news item below.

http://www.wjhg.com/home/headlines/11950631.html



Federal Court Stops Local Airport Project, at Least Temporarily


Newschannel Seven has learned that a Federal Appeals Court in New York has put the new airport project, for Bay County, on hold...at least temporarily.
Reporters first learned of the developments this afternoon.
A spokeswoman for the Natural Resources Defense Council and the attorney for local opponents of the project both confirmed for us that a temporary stay had been issued late this afternoon by the Federal 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in New York.
The N-R-D-C and the local group, the Friends of P-F-N had sued the Federal Aviation Administration trying to stop the 330 million dollar local project. They filed a 24 page emergency motion asking for a stay.
That temporary stay has now apparently been granted by the court so it can schedule a hearing in about three weeks to review the case.

From what I hear, the hearing won't delay the applications and permitting process, only the construction commencement.

I live on the Bay-Walton line and spend as much time in PC as Destin. Panama City has always fought any kind of growth. The current airport is an eyesore. The company that built Rosemary wants to buy the old airport, which Im sure would make it more aesthetically pleasing. This airport is a win-win situation but the rednecks will fight tooth and nail, and I do mean tooth as in 1.

I live on the Bay-Walton line and spend as much time in PC as Destin. Panama City has always fought any kind of growth. The current airport is an eyesore. The company that built Rosemary wants to buy the old airport, which Im sure would make it more aesthetically pleasing. This airport is a win-win situation but the rednecks will fight tooth and nail, and I do mean tooth as in 1.

I guess that depends on what you call an eyesore. It's not exactly in the same category as a run-down house trailer with a couple of dead pickups in the yard.

As a frequent flyer, I LIKE the old PC airport. It's small and handy, no need to arrive 2 hours before scheduled departure to clear security. During peak travel times, there could be a little more parking, but other than that I'm going to hate to see it go. Beats the toot out of, say, Atlanta or Orlando. "Progress" isn't always better for everyone.

BTW, I've still got all my teeth.

Its not just the airport but all the land going into conservation, the audubon park. I dont have a map of all the land involved but Ive seen it and its quite impressive. I fly out of VPS and PFN, whichever is cheaper. Vps wins 99% of the time. They are giving the land away if airport is built, it doesnt make sense to say no thanks. If you dont think this area not going to explode in the near future you havent been paying attention. St. Joe could break that land up into huge parcels and sell it to lord knows what.

I live on the Bay-Walton line and spend as much time in PC as Destin. Panama City has always fought any kind of growth. The current airport is an eyesore. The company that built Rosemary wants to buy the old airport, which Im sure would make it more aesthetically pleasing. This airport is a win-win situation but the rednecks will fight tooth and nail, and I do mean tooth as in 1.

On the contrary, Bay County consistently favors developers over the interest of its citizens and without regard to the impact unregulated growth has on the environment. Drive down Front Beach Road. Either there's no beach, or there's ugly "renourished" brown sand which would not have been needed had there been proper setback lines.

Moving the airport despite the fact that the majority of residents voted against it was just another kowtow to St. Joe. So what if it's going to cost $330 million and destroy 4000 acres of wetlands?

Most of the people I know who oppose the new airport are well-educated and well-informed rednecks who are tired of seeing their once beautiful town destroyed. Why is it that everyone thinks growth is good? Go to Miami, Orlando or Atlanta and see the sprawling messes they've become.

I'm assuming from your snide remarks you moved here from somewhere else. My grandparents may have been uneducated sharecroppers with poor dentition, but at least they had manners.

Sorry, but it just burns me up when someone who can't even punctuate denigrates a whole class of people.

Its not just the airport but all the land going into conservation, the audubon park...... St. Joe could break that land up into huge parcels and sell it to lord knows what.

If you've ever driven down the logging roads, it's mostly swamp. If you've ever tried approaching the land by boat (and I'm talking about an 18-foot boat), you run aground about 200 feet out. Then as you're poling yourself out, you are inundated by dog flies.

I've no doubt St. Joe could still get the county to approve filling in everything and dredging the bay so that the McMansion owners could get their boats docked.

PMD:

Regarding PCB, you said "Either there's no beach, or there's ugly "renourished" brown sand..." Which beach have you visited in PCB that has either of these characteristics? Further, which beach are you using as a standard for comparison?

I find the beaches as white as ever and deeper than they were a couple of years ago.

Little Fish

I live on the Bay-Walton line and spend as much time in PC as Destin. Panama City has always fought any kind of growth. The current airport is an eyesore. The company that built Rosemary wants to buy the old airport, which Im sure would make it more aesthetically pleasing. This airport is a win-win situation but the rednecks will fight tooth and nail, and I do mean tooth as in 1.

I believe Leukadia has already purchased the old airoprt site for $55 million. Can any realtor confirm this?

I guess that depends on what you call an eyesore. It's not exactly in the same category as a run-down house trailer with a couple of dead pickups in the yard.

As a frequent flyer, I LIKE the old PC airport. It's small and handy, no need to arrive 2 hours before scheduled departure to clear security. During peak travel times, there could be a little more parking, but other than that I'm going to hate to see it go. Beats the toot out of, say, Atlanta or Orlando. "Progress" isn't always better for everyone.

BTW, I've still got all my teeth.

I too love the convenience and no hassle of small PFN and VPS airports BUT it is quite expensive and it is such a pain to not be able to fly anywhere without having to go through Atlanta or another major hub. No good answer here.

Who knows whether the new airport will indeed offer new routes and MORE (not less) convenience - it will truely be ironic if after hundreds of millions, we are left with +/- the same thing. Anyone have any information on this?

As to growth and development - these are, especially in a State like Florida, inevitable - however we should all do our part to make sure that this is managed as best as possible.

PMD:

Regarding PCB, you said "Either there's no beach, or there's ugly "renourished" brown sand..." Which beach have you visited in PCB that has either of these characteristics? Further, which beach are you using as a standard for comparison?

I find the beaches as white as ever and deeper than they were a couple of years ago.

Little Fish

If you find the beaches "white as ever" then you did not see the beaches in the seventies and eighties prior to beach renourishment. If you've been to Shell Island then you understand what I'm talking about. Another way to tell the difference is the squeaking sound you hear when you walk on the original quartz sand. The imported sand is not quartz.

Scan the beaches on GoogleEarth or Google Maps with satellite. There are many areas where you can see buildings practically in the water and you can see the color of the sand compared with Shell Island.

PMD:

I must confess I did not see the beaches in the 70's; however, I've been vacationing religiously in the PCB area since 1981. IMO, the beaches of the Florida Panhandle cannot be touched elsewhere in the US. If the beaches were whiter than they were in the early 80's, I would have loved to have seen them.

Google Earth shows pictures of the panhandle two years ago and is not up to date. I was last in PCB two months ago and have no issues with the beach renourishment. In fact, geologists were hired to ensure that the dredged sand had the same quality/characteristics of existing sand in PCB. This was not "imported sand", as the sand was taken directly from the Gulf. I believe they did a good job of choosing the dredge location and the sand today still retains the "squeaking" sound to which you refer. I am also fond of this sound.

The beaches have only gotten better and are superior to many beaches found in SoWal (and Destin for that matter). That may be why Walton is also considering beach renourishment.

Little Fish

On the contrary, Bay County consistently favors developers over the interest of its citizens and without regard to the impact unregulated growth has on the environment. Drive down Front Beach Road. Either there's no beach, or there's ugly "renourished" brown sand which would not have been needed had there been proper setback lines.

Moving the airport despite the fact that the majority of residents voted against it was just another kowtow to St. Joe. So what if it's going to cost $330 million and destroy 4000 acres of wetlands?

Most of the people I know who oppose the new airport are well-educated and well-informed rednecks who are tired of seeing their once beautiful town destroyed. Why is it that everyone thinks growth is good? Go to Miami, Orlando or Atlanta and see the sprawling messes they've become.

I'm assuming from your snide remarks you moved here from somewhere else. My grandparents may have been uneducated sharecroppers with poor dentition, but at least they had manners.

Sorry, but it just burns me up when someone who can't even punctuate denigrates a whole class of people.

The issue always seems to be growth. Now we wouldn't need growth if there weren't more people on this Earth. So to sum up your argument AGAINST growth, you've had yourself sterilized right? I mean to still be able to or actually reproducing that would make you a hypocrit right?

I believe Leukadia has already purchased the old airoprt site for $55 million. Can any realtor confirm this?

I believe that I heard that the contract for that property had been written, but as I understand it, the sale will not take place until after the new airport is opened. Again, that is what I recall hearing, but it may not be accurate.

...
The beaches have only gotten better and are superior to many beaches found in South Walton (and Destin for that matter). That may be why Walton is also considering beach renourishment.

Little Fish

From what I understand, it has more to do with FEMA paying a good portion of the nourishment, and an even larger portion of any future re-nourishment.

I guess that depends on what you call an eyesore. It's not exactly in the same category as a run-down house trailer with a couple of dead pickups in the yard.

As a frequent flyer, I LIKE the old PC airport. It's small and handy, no need to arrive 2 hours before scheduled departure to clear security. During peak travel times, there could be a little more parking, but other than that I'm going to hate to see it go. Beats the toot out of, say, Atlanta or Orlando. "Progress" isn't always better for everyone.

BTW, I've still got all my teeth.

The old PC airport is like Montgomery Alabama's airport. Small and inefficient. Montgomery is the capital city for the state and still has a crummy airport. Hyundai made a 1 billion, yes 1 billion dollar investment in that city and the executives and workers have to fly to Atlanta for non-stop flights for other parts of the world. Our new Airport will offer non-stop flights around the WORLD! I for one would like to go back to other countries that I have visited and not have to change planes 4-5 times.

The issue always seems to be growth. Now we wouldn't need growth if there weren't more people on this Earth. So to sum up your argument AGAINST growth, you've had yourself sterilized right? I mean to still be able to or actually reproducing that would make you a hypocrit right?

I've posted before about a dear friend of mine who prefers living in the rural Midwest. She and her husband don't like the urban sprawl creeping out their way, yet they are about to have their fourth child. This "macro" issue of population growth isn't one that is often discussed these days unless you are talking about immigration. Hubby and I have three kids (one more than the ZPG standard), so I've decided that I am in no position to ever complain about growth or sprawl. I heard last week that "three is the new two," which might be great for families, not so great from a land use perspective.

Like Chickpea, I believe the key is planning for growth (glad Chickpea is one of those folks hanging around to help ). I go back and forth about the decision to do the airport now, but mostly I'm uncomfortable with the way much of it has been handled.

I too love the convenience and no hassle of small PFN and VPS airports BUT it is quite expensive and it is such a pain to not be able to fly anywhere without having to go through Atlanta or another major hub. No good answer here.

Who knows whether the new airport will indeed offer new routes and MORE (not less) convenience - it will truely be ironic if after hundreds of millions, we are left with +/- the same thing. Anyone have any information on this?

As to growth and development - these are, especially in a State like Florida, inevitable - however we should all do our part to make sure that this is managed as best as possible.

We THINK/HOPE/EXPECT that air fares will be cheaper with a larger airport. Not necessarily so. I lived for years in Memphis, a Northwest hub. NWA fares out of Memphis were about the same as they are out of PC. Yeah, I know, PC won't be a hub. But who's to say it will develop into a competitive market?

So, here's the thing about travel. Your typical 3 or 4 day business or vacation trip, with plane, rental car, hotel, and food will run you $1200 to $1700, depending. So your fare gets $200 cheaper, it doesn't turn into a GO/NO GO decision. You already made that decision when you tipped over for the first $1000. My point, of course, is that while it would be nice to save a little on the air fare, a whole new airport is a big price to pay for that, and may also lose in convenience some of what it saves for price. Lots of cheap fares to Orlando, but who wants to fly out of that airport regularly?

The old PC airport is like Montgomery Alabama's airport. Small and inefficient. Montgomery is the capital city for the state and still has a crummy airport. Hyundai made a 1 billion, yes 1 billion dollar investment in that city and the executives and workers have to fly to Atlanta for non-stop flights for other parts of the world. Our new Airport will offer non-stop flights around the WORLD! I for one would like to go back to other countries that I have visited and not have to change planes 4-5 times.

Curious as to why you think the new PCB airport will have non stop flights around the world. I am not saying it won't. But my gut feeling as is that it wil not have any more service initially than the old airport. The old airport is way underutilized and any airline in the country could add flights now. The problem is not lack of runway or gates but lack of passengers. Again I am not saying flights will not increase as the population increases, but that would have happened at the old airport as well.

No problem with planning ahead for future growth for the region. But as I stated before: air service will increase as the passenger base increases, no just because there is a new terminal and runway.

JMHO,
Flyguy

Airbus A-380.

I fully agree, flyguy, and the airport authority confirms this in their talks, too. They are planning for the future, rather than being reactive and too late.

TreeFrog, I believe I recall reading that the new airport had Fed grant money to entice new airlines to come to PCB, which should help get some competition stirring, but again, see flyguy's post regarding the passenger demand. The airlines don't want to compete over empty seats in the immediate future.

From a passenger standpoint, look at what Pensacola has in terms of carriers and non-stop flights, and realistically that's probably what PCB is looking at if the new airport is highly successful in that regard. (also interesting to note how PNS has really improved itself in recent years even though it's highly landlocked)

I'd been skeptical about the cargo hub rumors until someone on another board brought up the number one requirement of cargo hubs: no overnight curfew hours for flights. So that rumor might have more legs than what you might think on first glance. Which would make any residential development in the are a bit interesting.

One thing which could potentially increase demand at the PCB new airport is that it is highly likely that Eglin AFB will not lease the space at VPS once the new limited access parallel Hwy 20 road is built connecting P'Cola to Niceville, to PCB airport, all the way on over to Tally. If that indeed happens, as it talked about by the peeps in the know, business at PCB will increase and more seats will get filled, and more flights and competitors may follow, sooner rather than later. Again, this isn't in the short term plans, but we are in the baby stages of growth for the FL panhandle. With planning such as this, the growth will exponentially increase, but it wouldn't happen at all if groundwork wasn't being laid right now.

also interesting to note how PNS has really improved itself in recent years even though it's highly landlocked)

And?

TreeFrog, I believe I recall reading that the new airport had Fed grant money to entice new airlines to come to PCB, which should help get some competition stirring, but again, see flyguy's post regarding the passenger demand. The airlines don't want to compete over empty seats in the immediate future.

Which was really what I was trying to say... Thanks.