Wild Heron/Rivercamps

We were told this past weekend that Rivercamp is moving the sales center to the Wild Heron building, and the sales folks will be selling both properties. The major diference is WH lots have no build out while RC still does, which I assume may put them at a disadvantage in todays market. Not that anyone has a great advantage.
It was nice to see some building at Natureswalk this weekend. Now lets see some SALES.

At the asking prices for lots and homes in Naturewalk, it may be a good while before any significant sales occur. They will have the same problem Alys is having--too late to the party and asking prices that are well above comparable properties in Rosemary, Watersound and Watercolor.

You should take a look at the homes under construction in Grande Pointe at Inlet Beach.

Is it too silly to think that no building at Naturewalk might mean no Hammock on 30A?

Is it too silly to think that no building at Naturewalk might mean no Hammock on 30A?

As in Hammock Bay??? Do tell

As in Hammock Bay??? Do tell

No no...I am sorry...I mean the beach club they plan on building on the Seagrove Villa site...I think it is called "Rick's Hammock" or something like that.

At the asking prices for lots and homes in Naturewalk, it may be a good while before any significant sales occur. They will have the same problem Alys is having--too late to the party and asking prices that are well above comparable properties in Rosemary, Watersound and Watercolor.

IMO, Alys Beach can't be compared to any other community along 30A - the community is totally unique and far superior as far as building practices go. This attention to detail and dedication to creating a superior end product will allow them to keep their price points set above other 30A communities - there really is no competition for them. Brilliant strategy IMO.

From alysbeach.com:

"Sustainable practices at Alys Beach include: Most homesites are oriented to allow passive heating and cooling from the sun and Gulf breezes, with a geothermal system that uses the natural temperature of the earth to regulate the home's internal climate. White exterior walls and roofs reflect sunlight, keeping homes and neighborhoods cooler; masonry construction ensures a durable, long-lasting and energy-efficient home.

Construction waste at Alys Beach will be reduced by up to 75 percent through increased efficiency and an on-site reuse/recycling program. The energy- efficient design, high-quality construction and environmentally-friendly materials used in the homes will make them the first in northwest Florida certified as green homes by the Florida green building coalition."

IMO, Alys Beach can't be compared to any other community along 30A - the community is totally unique and far superior as far as building practices go. This attention to detail and dedication to creating a superior end product will allow them to keep their price points set above other 30A communities - there really is no competition for them. Brilliant strategy IMO.

From alysbeach.com:

"Sustainable practices at Alys Beach include: Most homesites are oriented to allow passive heating and cooling from the sun and Gulf breezes, with a geothermal system that uses the natural temperature of the earth to regulate the home's internal climate. White exterior walls and roofs reflect sunlight, keeping homes and neighborhoods cooler; masonry construction ensures a durable, long-lasting and energy-efficient home.

Construction waste at Alys Beach will be reduced by up to 75 percent through increased efficiency and an on-site reuse/recycling program. The energy- efficient design, high-quality construction and environmentally-friendly materials used in the homes will make them the first in northwest Florida certified as green homes by the Florida green building coalition."

Except for "Prominence"

From prominencefl.com

"Geothermal heating and air conditioning is required in all homes and commercial businesses within Prominence. Hydro-Temp Earth Coupled Heat Pumps pull heat from the earth to warm the home during the winter. During the summer months, the same system pulls heat from your home and transfers it to the earth. Additionally, waste heat from the system can be used to heat water. This system redirects energy to the earth saving you on monthly expenses, eliminates the need for outside condenser units and is better for the environment."

and

"All residential and commercial buildings within Prominence will bear the ?Fortified?for safer living?? distinction as identified by the Institute for Business & Home Safety for its comprehensive construction standards and techniques. A home built to this standard has incorporated certain disaster-resistant features during construction which are more comprehensive than the current building code requirements. This increased structural strength enhances a home?s capability to withstand severe weather events."

Just kidding though, Alys is really very nice and in a different category than Prominence.

Geothermal is great, but they're not using it just because of its environmental benefits - that's the marketing spin - in reality, values go down fast when you put a bunch of noisy AC compressors next to concrete walls!

IMO, Alys Beach can't be compared to any other community along 30A - the community is totally unique and far superior as far as building practices go. This attention to detail and dedication to creating a superior end product will allow them to keep their price points set above other 30A communities - there really is no competition for them. Brilliant strategy IMO.

Maybe, maybe not. The brilliant strategy hasn't paid off yet in terms of robust sales, and sales will tell you how the market perceives the story in terms of pricing, quality, design, etc. In Alys, sales have been virtually non-existent over the past year or two. The only significant sales activity occurred during the initial offering of properties a couple of years ago during the end of the boom.

Sales activity in the planned communities continues to be led by Watercolor, followed by Watersound, Rosemary, and Seaside. Sales activity in the other planned communities along 30A such as Alys, Naturewalk, Cypress Dunes, The Preserve, Draper Lake, etc. is barely detectable. While I am not a fan of St Joe, they did a great job in developing marketable product with broad consumer appeal in Watersound and Watercolor. That's why property continues to sell in these developments. The other problem with Alys (and Naturewalk and Watersound West Beach and Draper Lake) is the fact that it will be decades before these places are built out--that means ongoing construction traffic, noise, messes, etc. Watercolor, Rosemary and Watersound Beach (obviously Seaside) are way down the path in terms of buildout.

Things might change, but so far, the market has not been overly receptive to the Alys concept.

I personally love the fortified and "green" building features in Alys, but so far, the market hasn't responded. Maybe the market will respond if/when prices are dropped by EBSCO.

Is it too silly to think that no building at Naturewalk might mean no Hammock on 30A?

That would be great if the beach club/condo development is delayed for a few years.

On the quality comparison from Prominence to Alys Beach

Alys Beach uses single glazed (one pc of laminated glass) impact windows that are more apt to condensation.

Prominence uses higher cost insulated (one pc of laminated glass / 1/2" airspace / additional pane of glass) impact windows that eliminates condensation and provides much more insulated values.

Geothermal is great, but they're not using it just because of its environmental benefits - that's the marketing spin - in reality, values go down fast when you put a bunch of noisy AC compressors next to concrete walls!

Since I have worked in the construction industry, I can tell you that geothermal has become quite popular in many areas, not just the ones advertising it. The company I worked for has been installing GT in Watercolor, The Retreat and Seaside among others for years. I totally agree that this is nothing but spin designed to attract people that want to become environmentally friendly, but dont want to make any sacrifices in order to do it. They can brag about how they are doing their part but in all actuality are only going that way because it lowers the light bill while still keeping that 4000sq.ft second home at a comfy 70 degrees year round.

In my opinion, Fisher has it right. There is a great house in Watersound West, down the end, closest to the beach access. 2400 ft and 4BR for 815k- but who would want to endure what may be years while it gets built out? There are less than 10 houses up and god knows how many lots. This is I think the main reason we see all of the activity in the more complete communities. There is a 4BR 2400 sq ft house in watercolor for 950K- which would be the better investment? Unfortunatley I think the truth is that neither is a good investment for anyone not able and willing to hold for a long time. In a market that is littered with empty million dollar homes that can be easily rented long term for 2500-3k per month, for the first time since I got in this business 12 years ago, I say now is not the time to buy. Next summer may be, but the prudent shopper sits on the sidelines for now.

We were told this past weekend that Rivercamp is moving the sales center to the Wild Heron building, and the sales folks will be selling both properties. The major diference is WH lots have no build out while RC still does, which I assume may put them at a disadvantage in todays market. Not that anyone has a great advantage.
It was nice to see some building at Natureswalk this weekend. Now lets see some SALES.

Wild Heron has the added benefit of not being in the flight path of a certain new airport.

Wild Heron has the added benefit of not being in the flight path of a certain new airport.

I smell lawsuit!...just kidding, the new sell can mention easy ingress/egress from the airport.

It's funny seeing Alys Beach compared to Prominence, since Prominence doesn't even have beach access. Their closest Public Beach Access is Deer Lake State Park, and they will have to pay daily fees and depart before sunset.

IMO, Alys Beach can't be compared to any other community along 30A - the community is totally unique and far superior as far as building practices go. This attention to detail and dedication to creating a superior end product will allow them to keep their price points set above other 30A communities - there really is no competition for them. Brilliant strategy IMO.

This was very apparent at this weekend's Caliza Pool open house! Definite WOW factor there!

This was very apparent at this weekend's Caliza Pool open house! Definite WOW factor there!

IMO, Alys Beach will fair this storm very well. EBSCO has almost nothing in the land, and the cost of land is what is pinching most developers right now. Alys Beach has the ability to draw only the top money from around the country. They are not looking at the same buyers as the rest of 30A. I doubt you will see EBSCO lowering their prices because Alys Beach really doesn't have any competition in our area, and my guess is that they can hang on through our down market. You must also consider the fact that for the buyers whom they are targeting, a couple hundred grand isn't worth negotiating. If their buyer's want the product, they simply write the check. Our current real estate market conditions will not greatly influence the purchasing decisions of those high-end buyers.

If I was a Realtor on 30A, given the stock market, I would be marketing the high end properties now.

It's funny seeing Alys Beach compared to Prominence, since Prominence doesn't even have beach access. Their closest Public Beach Access is Deer Lake State Park, and they will have to pay daily fees and depart before sunset.

Has Deer Lake changed? I didn't think you had to pay to use that state park.

IMO, Alys Beach will fair this storm very well. EBSCO has almost nothing in the land, and the cost of land is what is pinching most developers right now. Alys Beach has the ability to draw only the top money from around the country. They are not looking at the same buyers as the rest of 30A. I doubt you will see EBSCO lowering their prices because Alys Beach really doesn't have any competition in our area, and my guess is that they can hang on through our down market. You must also consider the fact that for the buyers whom they are targeting, a couple hundred grand isn't worth negotiating. If their buyer's want the product, they simply write the check. Our current real estate market conditions will not greatly influence the purchasing decisions of those high-end buyers.

Beautifully said, SJ! You have it right on the nail, IMO. And I believe I heard there were a few properties that have gone under contract over the last month or so?? Realtors? Any info?

Beautifully said, SJ! You have it right on the nail, IMO. And I believe I heard there were a few properties that have gone under contract over the last month or so?? Realtors? Any info?

I can only find 6 closings in Alys since December 2005. Any realtors with better info?

agreed, on all points, Alys is on the top of their game.....
but, mistakes.... huge, were made...early on, many well heeled clients and realtors were sent packing with the "interview process" and no commission to outside realtors for referrals. There was a very long list of potential buyers and realtors that were offended by this. Unfortunate, but at the end of the day, I'm sure this will be much more than a premier development.

It wasn't until a few months into this year when the MLS rules were updated, requiring developers who participate in the MLS to enter all listings which are pending or sold into the MLS for comp purposes, but a violation is only a class two violation, which is basically to correclty enter it w/i two days when caught in violation. I could see Alys Beach wanting to keep their sales on the down-low. I suspect they have had more contracts written. Also remember that they may get a contract on a home which hasn't commenced construction. Again, even if they have only a few homes sold currently, they are probably still fine, financially and are not trying to sell all of their product overnight. Many wealthy people are slowly discovering our area. With time, their sales will increase, as will their prices. Remember, they haven't even started selling Gulf front. I'm sure they will wait until demand (ie-prices) increase.

I can only find 6 closings in Alys since December 2005. Any realtors with better info?

IMO, Alys Beach will fair this storm very well. EBSCO has almost nothing in the land, and the cost of land is what is pinching most developers right now. Alys Beach has the ability to draw only the top money from around the country. They are not looking at the same buyers as the rest of 30A. I doubt you will see EBSCO lowering their prices because Alys Beach really doesn't have any competition in our area, and my guess is that they can hang on through our down market. You must also consider the fact that for the buyers whom they are targeting, a couple hundred grand isn't worth negotiating. If their buyer's want the product, they simply write the check. Our current real estate market conditions will not greatly influence the purchasing decisions of those high-end buyers.

Time will tell, but so far the market has not responded well to Alys. Who knows if it is price, architectural style or both that are hurting sales. Sales in RM, SS, WC and WS have been far outstripping Alys for the last 18 months or so. While WC may not be everyones cup of tea, the general market seems to be much more accepting of the product in WC based on sales over the last 2 years compared to the other major developments along 30A.

Just like WS West, WS North, Phase IV at WC, The Preserve, and Draper Lake, it will be a long, long time before Alys gets anywhere near built out at the current rate of sales. I still believe WC, RM and WS have a distinct sales advantage over Alys due to the stage of completion of these developments and the broader market appeal of the architectural style. Alys is unique and I like the construction methodology. But, IMO, Alys will appeal to a much narrower segment of the population due to the monotone white stucco on all the buildings, the lack of greenery around many of the homes and the zero lot lines on many of the lots.

Remember, the cost of the raw land is nominal, but they have tens of millions invested in infrastructure, amenities, unsold homes, etc. Not a nominal investment overall. Also keep in mind that EBSCO's primary business is publishing, not real estate.

It will be interesting to see how Alys plays out over the next few years. And, when the market picks back up a bit, how Alys fares against its competition along 30A. So, far the competition is beating them hands down.