Our family has been searching for property along 30A for nearly one tear now. Back in April/May, it appeared that we had "missed the boat" as our desires were in one of the planned communities (Watercolor, Watersound, Alys Beach etc) and these areas had realized substantially jumps in values since our search began. So I decided to track prices as I anticipated some froth was coming into the market.
The way I did this was to print out available lot listings for Watercolor and Watersound that appealled to me. I first did this on 5/10/05. At this time, I only did a select number as I didn't expect my results to be dramatic. I then went back On July 26, 2005 and printed out all listings for the two properties and once again I did the same test yesterday September 15, 2005.
Since there has been so much talk about statistical sampling on this board, I decided to include the entire population for these two communities. I do realize that this only is a test of listing price and does not fully reflect the market as sales are not included and I recognize that sales are the key element here. However this was easier for me and I thought it would provide some interesting reading.
In the first test, I included the sampling of lots I chose in May 2005 that had price changes more than once between May and September. Out of 50 lots chosen for sale (out of an estmated 170 during May 2005 in those communities), 19 had multiple price changes - ALL DOWN! The average lisitng price on 5/10/05 for these 19 lots was $1,800,631. On September 15, 2005, the average for the same lots had dropped to $1,376,579 - this is a drop of 23.6% :cool:
I then took the test one step further - I compared the MLS listing for the 2 communties for July 26 versus September 15 - here are some results.....
Watercolor :
Listings - July 26 - 93 Lots Sept 15 - 105 lots
# of lots out of the 93 listed in July with price changes during the seven week period = 37 or 40%
Average price of these 37 lots on July 26 = $902,500
Average listing price on Sept 15 of same lots = $799,500
Average drop in listing price = 11.4%
The same info is available for Watersound - but I will save that for another day if this info is useful. I provide this info not as a negative aspect of the market as I feel Sowal is the most beautiful place in the US, however as useful info to ppl out there like me who if prices kept increasing would never have had a chance to call this area a home (albeit a 2nd one).
pat3797pat3797Beach Comber8 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Comber
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Smiling JOeSmiling JOeSoWal Expert31,643 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal Expert
Smiling JOeSoWal Expert31,643 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal ExpertNow, you just have to figure out where the bottom is so that you can buy. Good luck.😀
MermaidMermaidpicky7,871 postsJoined View profileMessagepicky
Now, you just have to figure out where the bottom is so that you can buy. Good luck.😀
It's like the stock market! We were driving ourselves crazy with that, trying to figure out the absolute best time to buy and sell, and finally we got exasperated enough with the guessing game to cash out entirely. Now we own mutual funds--boring ride, but that's okay. (And stocks are small peanuts compared to buying houses at the beach!)
Smiling JOeSmiling JOeSoWal Expert31,643 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal Expert
Smiling JOeSoWal Expert31,643 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal ExpertIt's like the stock market! We were driving ourselves crazy with that, trying to figure out the absolute best time to buy and sell, and finally we got exasperated enough with the guessing game to cash out entirely. Now we own mutual funds--boring ride, but that's okay. (And stocks are small peanuts compared to buying houses at the beach!)
FYI - You didn't really cash out since mutual funds buy stocks. You just get a wider spread of risk because the funds are required to own a minimum of 20 stocks.
wetwillywetwillyBeach FanaticAtlanta, Ga.536 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
Compelling evidence that their are listing price corrections going on in SoWal. This is somewhat natural in boom markets even though it is causing some to push the doom and gloom or the "sky is falling" theory it frankly is evident that the pricing and runup in some of the communities was not sustainable.
Again, I do not believe that this spells crash or bust (bubble) throughout SoWal but some correction was/is needed in some respects. :idontno: :blink:
Again, I do not believe that this spells crash or bust (bubble) throughout SoWal but some correction was/is needed in some respects. :idontno: :blink:
MermaidMermaidpicky7,871 postsJoined View profileMessagepicky
FYI - You didn't really cash out since mutual funds buy stocks. You just get a wider spread of risk because the funds are required to own a minimum of 20 stocks.
Yes, of course it's risk spread wide as opposed to singly. The thrill of the chase isn't there but on the other hand it makes for a more restful night!
Smiling JOeSmiling JOeSoWal Expert31,643 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal Expert
Smiling JOeSoWal Expert31,643 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal ExpertYes, of course it's risk spread wide as opposed to singly. The thrill of the chase isn't there but on the other hand it makes for a more restful night!
In some respect, the stock market is similar to real estate in the way of investments, and your behavior. Some people look like walking heart attacks, worrying on an hourly basis about what their investment is doing at that snapshot in time. These people do not rest well at night. When making an investment, no matter stocks or real estate, remember that it is important to be able to sleep at night with your investment. I studied the stock martket closely for several years, and learned that the emotional buy and sell is where you can get burned. I believe the same to be true if you are buying real estate for an investment. Sure, people often buy a beach home based on their emotions and I think that is fine. It is your body's way of telling you to act. However, these people see their beach home as a lifestyle choice first. Investment is secondary. For those of you who invest on emotion, I encourage you to think twice. If you need to know the market value of your home on a daily or weekly basis, you are missing out on life.
It sounds like Mermaid has learned a great thing in life. :lol:
Cork On the OceanCork On the Oceandirectionally challengedSeacrest Beach2,450 postsJoined View profileMessagedirectionally challenged
Cork On the Oceandirectionally challengedSeacrest Beach2,450 postsJoined View profileMessagedirectionally challengedCompelling evidence that their are listing price corrections going on in SoWal.
Again, I do not believe that this spells crash or bust (bubble) throughout SoWal but some correction was/is needed in some respects. :idontno: :blink:
At this point, I totally agree with you Willy, There's no doubt that the beginning of the year brought in many properties priced at 100% over last year which was just too much. If the comparisons are made back to last year, the prices are up from last year (at least this was the case in June). Probably should redo sales comparison from 9/04 - 9/05 to see if this is still the case. I also suspect when you compare 5/05 to 5/06 (rather than 8/05), we'll see a nice appreciation.
Joe, You hit it! We all know that last year's 2 month flips for profit were not going to continue. If someone needs to make a profit over a matter of days, they need to be a day trader, not a real estate investor.
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SlowMovinSlowMovinBeach Fanatic483 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
Compelling evidence that their are listing price corrections going on in SoWal. This is somewhat natural in boom markets even though it is causing some to push the doom and gloom or the "sky is falling" theory it frankly is evident that the pricing and runup in some of the communities was not sustainable.I think you nailed it WW. The key term here is "correction" not "crash". The fundamentals are still sound, but the prices moved too quickly. Not too high, since I personally believe there is still room for them to rise further, but too quickly. It's now, in my opinion, going to pull back a little, slow down a lot, catch it's breath, then start back up (hopefully at a more restrained pace). Because it still is not "overpriced" relative to other, comparable beachfront markets.
Again, I do not believe that this spells crash or bust (bubble) throughout SoWal but some correction was/is needed in some respects. :idontno: :blink:
You thought it was bad when the people from Atlanta, Birmingham and New Orleans bid up the prices over the last few years? Wait until the people from California, New York and Chicago start doing it.
DabellDabellBeach FanaticNew York471 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
DabellBeach FanaticNew York471 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach FanaticThis is something that interest most people. May I say you cannot find a Home anywhere by the beach, on the beach or waterfront in NEW YORK or on Long Island for under $1,000,000.00 and if you do, It will need work. I do not understand why, with the beaches so beautiful down in South Walton why are the prices of homes going down? Is it the schools? Is it No high paying jobs? In South FL anything By, next to or on the water, never stops going down in price. What is wrong here?
SlowMovinSlowMovinBeach Fanatic483 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
What is wrong here?In stock market terms, we are seeing what they call a "profit taking correction", albeit one that is being fueled with a little buyer skepticism...won't last, IMHO.
The should not be taken to mean that I consider real estate markets and the stock market to behave the same. They have their similarities, but they have their differences, too. I just think we're seeing a similar psychology on the part of buyers and sellers as you do when anything (stocks, properties, currencies, etc.) runs up real high, real fast.
Smiling JOeSmiling JOeSoWal Expert31,643 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal Expert
Smiling JOeSoWal Expert31,643 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal ExpertAbout 2-3 years ago, I recall many lots in Pt Washington area with for sale signs. Price? - around $35K for 1/4 ac lot. They were everywhere. When they jumped to $40K a few months later, people were saying that there is no way they will sell. There is too much inventory, and they just paid $20K-$35K for them. Are these people crazy?
Some 1000% increase in price later (today), those lots are selling anywhere from $190K-$300K. There was a time between then and now, where you could not find a single lot with a for sale sign. My point is that real estate has cycles. One thing that drives demand is supply. When there is nothing to buy, everyone wants it. When there are too many choices, people question why everyone is selling. Maybe they know something we don't.
The time will again come when you don't see any for sale signs on those same streets. If someone wants to buy one, they will have to pay a premium. Then the whole vicious cycle goes around again.
Some 1000% increase in price later (today), those lots are selling anywhere from $190K-$300K. There was a time between then and now, where you could not find a single lot with a for sale sign. My point is that real estate has cycles. One thing that drives demand is supply. When there is nothing to buy, everyone wants it. When there are too many choices, people question why everyone is selling. Maybe they know something we don't.
The time will again come when you don't see any for sale signs on those same streets. If someone wants to buy one, they will have to pay a premium. Then the whole vicious cycle goes around again.
SHELLYSHELLYSoWal Insider5,763 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal Insider
SHELLYSoWal Insider5,763 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal InsiderI do not understand why, with the beaches so beautiful down in South Walton why are the prices of homes going down? Is it the schools? Is it No high paying jobs? In South FL anything By, next to or on the water, never stops going down in price. What is wrong here?
People who "invest" and live in the area assume that everyone in the entire world thinks as they do--that the beach is heaven on earth. That narrow-minded approach works for the developers trying to push their projects, but doesn't apply to the entire world population.
Believe it or not, there are people who prefer the rolling green hills of Kentucky, mountains of Colorado, deserts of Arizona, lakes of Minnesota, mesas of New Mexico or city lights of New York to some hot, sticky, dog-fly-biting, hurricane sucking beach (their words, not mine). And not all of them would swap their current locale for retirement in a cement condo crowded along the concrete canyon/parking lot that is Destin or PCB (contrary to what developers are touting in their slick pre-construction brochures and rah-rah parties).
One person's paradise is another person's hell on earth. "Investors" need to keep that in mind before taking out their next Option ARM--whereas people who plan on making a home and raising a family here should not be concerned what other people think.
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RitaRitamargarita brocoliaDune Allen Beach5,207 postsJoined View profileMessagemargarita brocolia
Ritamargarita brocoliaDune Allen Beach5,207 postsJoined View profileMessagemargarita brocolia.....
Believe it or not, there are people who prefer the rolling green hills of Kentucky, mountains of Colorado, deserts of Arizona, lakes of Minnesota, mesas of New Mexico or city lights of New York to some hot, sticky, dog-fly-biting, hurricane sucking beach (their words, not mine).
:doh: :nono1: Shelly hasn't been keeping up with the "October" threads.
Go for it girl, you tell them! But you forgot the gators, skeeters, and plenty of other October negatives.
Miss KittyMiss KittyMeow47,011 postsJoined View profileMessageMeow
Miss KittyMeow47,011 postsJoined View profileMessageMeow:doh: :nono1: Shelly hasn't been keeping up with the "October" threads.
Go for it girl, you tell them! But you forgot the gators, skeeters, and plenty of other October negatives.
Thanks for reminding Shelly of the rest of the horrors, Rita!!! You are a class act!
SlowMovinSlowMovinBeach Fanatic483 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
In all seriousness, I know of four different families in the last two years that moved to SoWal, to be permanent residents (NOT second-homers) and moved back shortly afterwards. One couple only lasted six months.
iwishiwasthereiwishiwasthereBeach FanaticTennessee2,875 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
iwishiwasthereBeach FanaticTennessee2,875 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach FanaticWhy? My husband and I considering moving from our present location and wanted to know the pitfalls...any advice? We were thinking south or east. We are just ready for different vistas.
Camp Creek KidCamp Creek KidChristini ZambiniSeacrest Beach1,277 postsJoined View profileMessageChristini Zambini
Camp Creek KidChristini ZambiniSeacrest Beach1,277 postsJoined View profileMessageChristini ZambiniIn all seriousness, I know of four different families in the last two years that moved to SoWal, to be permanent residents (NOT second-homers) and moved back shortly afterwards. One couple only lasted six months.
And I know at least 20 different families in the last four years that moved to SoWal to be permanent residents and they LOVE it here. Maybe your friends were expecting to move here and be on a permanent vacation. Reality Check! You still have to grocery shop, do the laundry, work, take kids to soccer practice, and, depending on where in SoWal you live, you have to drive quite a bit. At least you can do all those things in SoWal!
Smiling JOeSmiling JOeSoWal Expert31,643 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal Expert
Smiling JOeSoWal Expert31,643 postsJoined View profileMessageSoWal ExpertIn all seriousness, I know of four different families in the last two years that moved to SoWal, to be permanent residents (NOT second-homers) and moved back shortly afterwards. One couple only lasted six months.
Yes, please tell us the circumstances of each family as to their reasons for moving.
SlowMovinSlowMovinBeach Fanatic483 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
Maybe your friends were expecting to move here and be on a permanent vacation.Definitely the case for a couple of them. The others claimed they could never find any kind of serious work (although I question how seriously they tried). Two of them found work as housecleaners for a while, but didn't like it much and finally went back to the corporate thing in Atlanta.
If you're gonna move here, you better be entrepreneurial. You can't just show up and go to work 9-5 somewhere with a big paycheck and benefits. Not yet, anyway. Down here, you pretty much make your own life. Good or bad, it's up to you.
On Edit: One other couple I know who did the same thing had some legitimate concerns about telecommuting with an office located in the DC area, and moved back for that reason. Can't really put them in this group.
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