9-20-18 10:00AM mandatory vendor meeting

Vendors are in trouble reported

More details please!

The meeting was recorded. See if this link works:
Tourist Development Council on 2018-09-20 10:00 AM - Post Season Vendor Meeting - Sep 20th, 2018

Provided by Fred Buehler (thank you, Fred) for those asking for a review of the meeting. Really good summary:

Summary of TDC Vendor Annual Review Meeting, September 20, 2018

Brian Kellenberger, the TDC Director of Beach Operations, moderated meeting and stated the goal was to produce a list of recommended changes to Code Enforcement. The audience was made up of both vendors and concerned citizens.

Brian recited various statistics on permits issued, code enforcement contacts, etc. Stated he has 11 enforcement staff with 4 on the beach at any one time.

Brian stated that the TDC currently collects trash on about 60% of the beach and the legal department is working on language with BFOs to allow access to all beaches. That language involves saying the county won’t use historical TDC garbage collection as an argument for allowing Customary Use of their beaches. He hopes to get this issue resolved in a month or so.

Brian also reminded everyone that the
TDC Beach Management Committee meets the second Tuesday of each month at 9 AM in the South Walton Annex Board Room and the TDC Destination Improvements Committee meets the second Thursday Of each month at 1 PM in the South Walton Annex Board Room. All meetings are open to the public.

Brian opened it up for discussion with the main topics as follows:

- Many saw a need for better code enforcement on the beach.
- The need for a managed vendor program for public beaches was suggested by several people in the audience. Brian has seen that kind of system work at both Walton County resort managed areas and at other communities around the state. That might include ideas such as contracted vendors, assigning one vendor per beach access, requiring vendors to maintain a presence during the hours of operation, not setting up chairs and umbrellas until the customer has come to the beach, removing setups when a customer leaves for the day, negotiated contracts and standards of operation.
- Brian suggested there is still a need for a Vendor Industry Association. This would facilitate the beach vendor’s policing themselves and establishing a code of conduct.
- Challenges include chairs at water’s edge, ghost chairs, rubber bands & trash on beach, storage of chairs & umbrellas on beach, location of vendor zones, different property ownerships at the various beach access points, and confusion on 22-60 (d) (8) of the Walton County Municipal Code (authorization of beach vending on private and public beaches).

The next scheduled meeting to discuss new vendor management rules will be a workshop to discuss proposed changes on September 25th at 5:00 pm at the South Walton Annex.

Provided by Fred Buehler (thank you, Fred) for those asking for a review of the meeting. Really good summary:

Summary of TDC Vendor Annual Review Meeting, September 20, 2018

Brian Kellenberger, the TDC Director of Beach Operations, moderated meeting and stated the goal was to produce a list of recommended changes to Code Enforcement. The audience was made up of both vendors and concerned citizens.

Brian recited various statistics on permits issued, code enforcement contacts, etc. Stated he has 11 enforcement staff with 4 on the beach at any one time.

Brian stated that the TDC currently collects trash on about 60% of the beach and the legal department is working on language with BFOs to allow access to all beaches. That language involves saying the county won’t use historical TDC garbage collection as an argument for allowing Customary Use of their beaches. He hopes to get this issue resolved in a month or so.

Brian also reminded everyone that the
TDC Beach Management Committee meets the second Tuesday of each month at 9 AM in the South Walton Annex Board Room and the TDC Destination Improvements Committee meets the second Thursday Of each month at 1 PM in the South Walton Annex Board Room. All meetings are open to the public.

Brian opened it up for discussion with the main topics as follows:

- Many saw a need for better code enforcement on the beach.
- The need for a managed vendor program for public beaches was suggested by several people in the audience. Brian has seen that kind of system work at both Walton County resort managed areas and at other communities around the state. That might include ideas such as contracted vendors, assigning one vendor per beach access, requiring vendors to maintain a presence during the hours of operation, not setting up chairs and umbrellas until the customer has come to the beach, removing setups when a customer leaves for the day, negotiated contracts and standards of operation.
- Brian suggested there is still a need for a Vendor Industry Association. This would facilitate the beach vendor’s policing themselves and establishing a code of conduct.
- Challenges include chairs at water’s edge, ghost chairs, rubber bands & trash on beach, storage of chairs & umbrellas on beach, location of vendor zones, different property ownerships at the various beach access points, and confusion on 22-60 (d) (8) of the Walton County Municipal Code (authorization of beach vending on private and public beaches).

The next scheduled meeting to discuss new vendor management rules will be a workshop to discuss proposed changes on September 25th at 5:00 pm at the South Walton Annex.

These vendors are not members of the PGA where the professional golfers call Million dollar rules violations on themselves..hard to imagine hourly high school summer employees policing themselves....I’m not saying they can’t..but it’s doubtful..

Brian stated that the TDC currently collects trash on about 60% of the beach and the legal department is working on language with BFOs to allow access to all beaches. That language involves saying the county won’t use historical TDC garbage collection as an argument for allowing Customary Use of their beaches. He hopes to get this issue resolved in a month or so.

Well its good to know that all of the BCC is all about "we stand for Customary Use" but are giving away evidence of it behind our backs....

Well its good to know that all of the BCC is all about "we stand for Customary Use" but are giving away evidence of it behind our backs....

I was questioning that as well. Win/win for BFO's. Pick up "my yard" but don't say you've been picking up in "my yard" for the past 20 years (or however long it's been) with tax dollars.

Re trash: In most cases, all it would mean is that the TDC has traversed the sand to get to trash receptacles. That isn't particularly helpful to the public being able to use the beach for recreational purposes.

These vendors are not members of the PGA where the professional golfers call Million dollar rules violations on themselves..hard to imagine hourly high school summer employees policing themselves....I’m not saying they can’t..but it’s doubtful..

They are being given an opportunity. If they don't address it themselves, the County will, hopefully, sooner than later.

If trash pich up isnt an issue then I wonder why they they were told to not pick it up. Interesting.

They are being given an opportunity. If they don't address it themselves, the County will, hopefully, sooner than later.

Playing patty cake. Self correcting "opportunity" usually translates to a long timeline (years). After next season - it will be a "final warning", then then next season after that we might have some meaningful changes for the following season. The only thing vendors will understand is an ordinance which spells out expected behaviors and outcomes. Far too much energy being pumped into making Larry Jones' fantasy come true and not enough into fixing the TDC.

Playing patty cake. Self correcting "opportunity" usually translates to a long timeline (years). After next season - it will be a "final warning", then then next season after that we might have some meaningful changes for the following season. The only thing vendors will understand is an ordinance which spells out expected behaviors and outcomes. Far too much energy being pumped into making Larry Jones' fantasy come true and not enough into fixing the TDC.

#thefixisin

So with the overwhelming opposition of the vendors having control of 50% of the public beaches, there’s nothing mentioned about this?

Are they also constitutionally protected?

Re trash: In most cases, all it would mean is that the TDC has traversed the sand to get to trash receptacles. That isn't particularly helpful to the public being able to use the beach for recreational purposes.

It also means that people, other than the TDC, have been traversing the beach to put trash in the cans.

The meeting was recorded. See if this link works:
Tourist Development Council on 2018-09-20 10:00 AM - Post Season Vendor Meeting - Sep 20th, 2018

Watch the meeting HERE!!!!!i think there is a second meeting early evening next week. Not sure of the date. Hope Factor Fiction ( love the handle ) post the next (all) videos. #PatienceGrasshopper

TDC Beach Code Enforcement Public Workshop
Tuesday, September 25, 2018
Please be notified that the Walton County Tourist Development Council Beach Code Enforcement staff will be holding a Public Workshop for Beach Vendors on Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 5:00 p.m. The workshop will be held in the South Walton Annex Board Room located at 31 Coastal Centre Blvd., Santa Rosa Beach, Florida. The purpose of the workshop is to provide the opportunity of an open forum to discuss general beach vending issues. All current and prospective beach vendors are encouraged to attend the meeting, but it is NOT mandatory. Two or more Walton County elected or appointed officials may attend. These meetings are open to the public. Please email Tricia@visitsouthwalton.com with any questions or suggestions.

TDC Beach Code Enforcement Public Workshop

If trash pich up isnt an issue then I wonder why they they were told to not pick it up. Interesting.

In some, not all cases, it was because of the constant vehicular tracks all over the sand (and not just the maintenance crews). If you review the best practices on the beach that are used by our state parks, you will find that trucks running the dry sand is harmful to wildlife and the beach, in general. The parks do not have trash receptacles on the beach, but rather on the top side of the walkovers. There are also areas that trash was picked up from both the beach and the top of the walkover that did not need pickup from the beach at all. In those cases, it seems prudent to avoid running trucks back and forth unnecessarily.

Running vehicles on the beach is not the best practice. Agreed! ....but that's not the context of your post above. I could quote it but you can just scroll up.

What other vehicles were on the beach? They are the only ones allowed on the beach (other than permitted vehicles at Grayton and Inlet). I am pretty sure it is ALL about supposed "private property" trash being picked up for years,using bed tax $$ and IS an important part of customary use. Why else would their lawyers be trying to get that wording back- doored and not in the sunshine into a "beach vendor" ordinance?

Running vehicles on the beach is not the best practice. Agreed! ....but that's not the context of your post above. I could quote it but you can just scroll up.

All related to trash pick up, but was answering two different "questions". If you mean why was the County told not to pick up trash by homeowners or by their attorneys or ????

Here. I made it easier for you.

Provided by Fred Buehler (thank you, Fred) for those asking for a review of the meeting. Really good summary:

Summary of TDC Vendor Annual Review Meeting, September 20, 2018


Brian stated that the TDC currently collects trash on about 60% of the beach and the legal department is working on language with BFOs to allow access to all beaches. That language involves saying the county won’t use historical TDC garbage collection as an argument for allowing Customary Use of their beaches. He hopes to get this issue resolved in a month or so.

What other vehicles were on the beach? They are the only ones allowed on the beach (other than permitted vehicles at Grayton and Inlet). I am pretty sure it is ALL about supposed "private property" trash being picked up for years,using bed tax $$ and IS an important part of customary use. Why else would their lawyers be trying to get that wording back- doored and not in the sunshine into a "beach vendor" ordinance?

I'm passing along some reasons I have heard. I cannot explain why the entire dry sand beach was covered in tire tracks, but I can say that I witnessed it and it doesn't look like that now in areas that trucks are not traversing the beach. No, I am not talking about areas where vehicles are permitted other than those belonging to WC, TDC, WCFD, DEP and WCSO (perhaps some other official vehicles). Please note, I said some, not all owners, made the request for the reasons I shared above. Prior to HB631, if anyone asked nicely for official vehicles to avoid running on the dry sand except in emergencies, they were told that it was inconvenient to pick up trash from the street or it was easier to ride on the beach than the roads, etc. Just for the record, I don't believe that CU is dependent on anyone stopping services or posting signs or anything else since July 1. CU is either valid due to ancient recreational uses or it isn't, I suspect. I don't think it hinges one way or the other on trash pickup. I'm not an attorney, but like most people, I have an opinion.

Here. I made it easier for you.

Gotcha. I believe Brian posted elsewhere to clarify that legal is working on an agreement that says that " any agreement would include terms that current and future efforts of garbage collection would not be used as arguments" (for CU). In other words, past garbage collection is what it is. It either helps with establishing recreational CU or it doesn't. BTW, not all trash collection sites have been in existence for the same length of time as others.

Gotcha. I believe Brian posted elsewhere to clarify that legal is working on an agreement that says that " any agreement would include terms that current and future efforts of garbage collection would not be used as arguments" (for CU). In other words, past garbage collection is what it is. It either helps with establishing recreational CU or it doesn't. BTW, not all trash collection sites have been in existence for the same length of time as others.

I see. I suspect the recent events including ropes and signs going up and the call to stop trash pick up and other gnashing of teeth won't hold as much teeth as the ancient recreational use of the beach.

Be that as it may, the one thing we all agree on is that the unrestained beach vendors is a huge issue. This is the catalyst of the CU issue. I don't see why the county isn't taking a firm stance and making drastic changes. I fear the tail is wagging the dog.

I see. I suspect the recent events including ropes and signs going up and the call to stop trash pick up and other gnashing of teeth won't hold as much teeth as the ancient recreational use of the beach.

Be that as it may, the one thing we all agree on is that the unrestained beach vendors is a huge issue. This is the catalyst of the CU issue. I don't see why the county isn't taking a firm stance and making drastic changes. I fear the tail is wagging the dog.

That's my perspective, but what do I know? You are so right that we all agree that beach vending needs to be reigned in. It certainly serves a purpose, but a bunch of empty chairs reserving prime beach seating when the customers aren't there is doing no one any good at all.