Freeport Real Estate - general discussion

[Smiling JOe]

from another thread:

I think Freeport has yet to sell a house to an end user in any number of it's brand spankin new RE developments...

Windswept, Hammock Bay, Canopies, Lagrange Landing, Cross Creek Est., etc, etc...

A town of 1,500 people with plans to build 4,000 residential dwelllings in a couple years... What a pipe dream!!!

FYI - Windswept, Hammock Bay, Canopies and Cross Creek all have end users who have bought. If you want to make specific statements as you did, perhaps you would like to use better research tools before looking like someone who doesn't know of that which they speak. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] Furthermore, I guess your statement would have been more truthful if you were speaking about Seaside in 1982.

Bobby, I am very familiar with Freeport, but cannot place Stanley Rd. Where is that located?

Do you really take everything someone says so damn serious as to not recognize the larger point that is being made??? Sure it was a generalization that NONE of them have been bought by end users... perhaps it would be better for me to say a VERY SMALL percentage...

It is all besides the point that the RE people in Freeport have spouted out about all this growth within the next 2 years (4,000+ dwellings) for a town that currently supports a population of 1,200 people, according to the article...

All to get some uninformed people to buy some over inflated lots and houses so the developers and city can make some bucko bucks in the biggest RE bubble in history...

Notice you bring up Seaside in 1982... That is 24 years of growth...
The stats I am saying is the fact that they have planned 4,000+ properties in the span of 2 YEARS... slightly different timeframe...

I am not questioning the fact that Freeport will grow overtime... but to expect a town to grow 10-15 fold in a few years... thats a bit over the top.

I agree with your statement about end users not being ready to fill the 4000+ properties in Freeport in the short term, but I don't want to sit quietly by, as you make comments, which aren't truthful, about specific developments. People who are unfamiliar with the area, may take my silence to mean that your statements are true. I only get picky if I need to be. If you want to speak in general terms, go right ahead, but don't confuse people with your specific statements worked into your general thoughts. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]

BTW, the Seaside comment does apply. In 1982, the only history Seaside had was zero. It was a new development. The new developments located in Freeport also have zero history. It will take some time to fill these units, but 10 years from now, Freeport will resemble more of a town. If you are looking for an instant town, look elsewhere. The slower real estate market will quickly slow Freeport's growth too. However, Insurance, or the lack of, may push people up to Freeport, sooner rather than later.

[kurt]

Freeport will be packed with retirees in golf carts soon enough. No reason to rush it.

[ShallowsNole]

I worked at the Seagrove Village Market 1982 - 1984, and we used to laaaaugh at the goofy men in the long walking shorts who flocked in to start working on Seaside. The New Town. The Old Ways. What a hoot!




Moral is...don't knock what you don't know...

[beachmouse]

I feel pretty confident that Owl's Head and Hammock Bay have the financial backing to built out over the long term. Some of the other developments, I'm not so sure about. And it's going to take a long time to build out everything currently on the table. Sandestin is 30 years old and still adding new homes. It took Bluewater Bay 25 years to effictively build out. Both of those areas had more selling points (Bluewater-commutability to good-paying base jobs; Sandestin-beach goodness) than what's planned for in Freeport does.

[Smiling JOe]

I feel pretty confident that Owl's Head and Hammock Bay have the financial backing to built out over the long term. Some of the other developments, I'm not so sure about. And it's going to take a long time to build out everything currently on the table. Sandestin is 30 years old and still adding new homes. It took Bluewater Bay 25 years to effictively build out. Both of those areas had more selling points (Bluewater-commutability to good-paying base jobs; Sandestin-beach goodness) than what's planned for in Freeport does.

I think it is called retirement, and it will take a long while for them to fill in.

[beachmouse]

Retirement home market in this state alone is very competitive, and Freeport is up against some pretty heavy players who are already further along in terms of development and infrastructure. I'm thinking of places like Flagler County and The Villages.

[turtle812]

Can someone give me some background info on Windswept Estates. I've been told that this development was originally planned ~14 years ago went bankrupt 3-4 times then was completely developed and sold off to builders and end-users.
-Is this true?
-When did they start selling lots and when did they completely sellout?
-I've seen a lot of empty lots out there. Are these investor lots,
future retiree lots, or builder's surplus?

Lastly, what are people's impressions of this development. Personally, I think that this development had a great idea but was poorly executed. Additionally the hurricanes of '05 definitely didn't help the situation. Thoughts?

[Smiling JOe]

Can someone give me some background info on Windswept Estates. I've been told that this development was originally planned ~14 years ago went bankrupt 3-4 times then was completely developed and sold off to builders and end-users.
-Is this true?
-When did they start selling lots and when did they completely sellout?
-I've seen a lot of empty lots out there. Are these investor lots,
future retiree lots, or builder's surplus?

Lastly, what are people's impressions of this development. Personally, I think that this development had a great idea but was poorly executed. Additionally the hurricanes of '05 definitely didn't help the situation. Thoughts?

Not True. Susan and her partner bought the property only a few years ago. They sold 360 of their 450, half acre + lots to builders and the remaining 90 lots were snatched up by friends of the developers and a few other lucky people, before ever hitting the open market. The builders couldn't build the houses fast enough so the developers bought some of the lots back from the builders and sold them to the public. I think the first lot sales were in 2004. They had plenty of buyers, and I had over 30 people on a waiting list to get one, and I had them registered 6 months before they released anything.

I am uncertain of the number of lots which the developer bought back and resold, and unaware of how many people who originally bought lots, actually built, so I cannot answer your next to last question. The builders are still building away.

Impression? a little boring at the moment. Only 4 builders were allowed to buy the original 360 lots, and it seems they took the easy way out by not buying many architectural plans. (same look, over and over and over.) That could change with time if people put in some landscaping. Right now, landscaping is either very new and young, or non-existant. I would like to see some bushes and trees lining the yards or sidewalks, or adding depth to the look of the house. Currently, most of the landscaping consists of grass.

[SHELLY]

Retirement home market in this state alone is very competitive, and Freeport is up against some pretty heavy players who are already further along in terms of development and infrastructure. I'm thinking of places like Flagler County and The Villages.

...North Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia....

[GoodWitch58]

Actually, I think the original development was 15-20 years ago...but it sat there for a long time and nothing was built until Susan et al, bought it from the original developers after his son died and their business was in trouble ...

right now there are many units for sale. I know two families who bought to live there; moved there, and now are selling because "it is too remote--no stores, no medical, no restaurants, shops, etc."

I agree that the builders skimped on the design--I liked the development better before they built the houses...those "sand dunes" on the golf course were nice.

[InletBchDweller]

I like the whole Windswept idea but yes there is nothing there for the residents....NOW but soon they will have everything that they need. It is just one of those subd. that the owners will have to wait.....

Landscaping is needed....

[Busta Hustle]

This just in...a pool is ready and 2 tennis courts...50+ lots are available and that doesn't include some phases still owned by builders and the developer. 75K gets you more than 1/2 acre in this golf course community...stay tuned for lower land prices all over Freeport...

[2bfabian]

I can remember going to sea side in the early 80's and laughing at my brother in law for buying lots there for 15 thousand a lot. he ended up with the last laugh. It's my opinion Freeport will be the largest city in walton county in 20 years. There is a reason for calling it the Freeport Westbay bypass because of its central location. look how the bypass comes close to ebro. Can you say casino? You will have 3 major roads going thru there. 20, new by pass,331, all 4 lane roads at that time.

[destinsm]

What's the scoop on DR Horton's website about Hammock Bay II...

Hammock Bay

1700 sq ft - $290 k ... $170/sq ft
2008 sq ft - $330 k ... $164/sq ft
2017 sq ft - $325 k ... $161/sq ft
2238 sq ft - $337 k ... $150/sq ft
2370 sq ft - $376 k ... $158/sq ft

Hammock Bay II

1976 sq ft - $230 k ... $116/sq ft
2063 sq ft - $240 k ... $116/sq ft
2215 sq ft - $258 k ... $116/sq ft
2242 sq ft - $255 k ... $114/sq ft
2247 sq ft - $260 k ... $116/sq ft
2252 sq ft - $256 k ... $114/sq ft

Looks like the "new" phase is a 30% discount from their first offerings... ouch!!!

Links...

Hammock Bay
http://www.drhorton.com/corp/GetComm...dv=V2&pr=43720

Hammock Bay II
http://www.drhorton.com/corp/GetComm...dv=V2&pr=44307

[Smiling JOe]

Those prices are the build prices, not the purchase price including the lot. When DR Horton first began building these homes in Hammock Bay, it was right after the market in Freeport grew very quiet, yet DR Horton's project sales guy lived outside of our area and would not believe the information they were getting from locals, regarding the current market conditions. DR Horton's goal was to sell houses as quickly as they built them, so maybe now their pricing is more reflective of that. Maybe now they are actually following the market for that area. I still don't think that these are priced to sell ten a month like they are probably hoping for, but now that the Lake Club is complete and the swimming pools, basketball and tennis courts are being finished, I think they may begin to see some sales.

[beachmouse]

Prices are moving in line with what you'd pay in Crestview, which I see as a healthy movement. At that price point, you're more likely to get buyers who live in the area, and are going to make the development an actual community, not just have row after row of houses that are owned by people who only use them four weeks a year.

It's also positioning them well to compete for some of the BRAC-related tranfers that come to Eglin proper. (The Green Berets will probably mostly go towards the 'View if rumors are true and they base out of Duke Field)

[destinsm]

Those prices are the build prices, not the purchase price including the lot. When DR Horton first began building these homes in Hammock Bay, it was right after the market in Freeport grew very quiet, yet DR Horton's project sales guy lived outside of our area and would not believe the information they were getting from locals, regarding the current market conditions. DR Horton's goal was to sell houses as quickly as they built them, so maybe now their pricing is more reflective of that. Maybe now they are actually following the market for that area. I still don't think that these are priced to sell ten a month like they are probably hoping for, but now that the Lake Club is complete and the swimming pools, basketball and tennis courts are being finished, I think they may begin to see some sales.

SJ,

Thanks for the info... Looks like the Quick Move In homes in Hammock Bay I are listed for about $8k more than the price shown on the floorplan starting price... Guess that reflects the lot it sits on.

Just thought it was interesting to see home prices in the same 'hood listed 30% lower than an earlier release....

[Smiling JOe]

While I cannot say that I am a fan of DR Horton's homes, I do like Hammock Bay. I think it could be a really fun community in which to live, and it is very family oriented, and allows owners to have a spirit of adventure with all of the biking trails, and nature trails. Maybe the big sign at the entrance and the fountain type wheelhouse structure in one of the pools are a little on the cheesy side, but I think the development already has much to offer, and they will be building many more ammenities in the future with their Bay Front property, as well as the City Park which is going in close by.

[dunelover]

I for one am watching the neighborhood. It is hard to get a feel for what it looks like w/out being there. Wanting to relocate w/in year.

I for one noticed about the Hammock Bay II and actually emailed DR Horton two days ago, and haven't heard back. They also don't have links to their home plans for the "hammock bay II" online, just the names.
And I agree, I don't really like cookie cutter houses, but depending on how cookie cutter... I do like the amenites. It is also hard to find info out about the other builders in there. I think I have looked at two others, and didn't much care for their "style" of home.

My opinion would be that one ought to consider when buying in Hammock bay to be sure and not let DR Horton control where they place their mortgage. I have personally heard nightmares from the Phoenix area w/ them and mortgages.

[Smiling JOe]

dunelover, I believe that you can select your own builder in Hammock Bay if you buy a lot.

[dunelover]

sj, thanks for the info on the other builders. I will check that out eventually.

[Smiling JOe]

dunelover,
Look for DR Horton to change up their buildings inside Hammock Bay on the new sales. They have found it difficult to sell $400,000 with laminate counters and vinyl flooring, and cheep looking carpet. Expect to see less of the two stories (higher costs), and see more stone work around the bases with Hardi-plank siding. All of that and cheaper prices!

One other thing which I didn't mention, for the existing homes in Hammock Bay, I think Turner Heritage has much nicer quality than DR Horton. A quick walk through will show you a world of difference in looks, and their prices are much less than DR Horton's prices on existing homes.

Judging from DR Horton's new pricing line, I think you could throw some offers their way on these existing homes, which seem to be sitting still for the most part, even though there have been some recent sales.

I have met a few young Air Force guys who are living in Hammock Bay and work on Eglin AFB. When you drive through and see families living there, it does show off and reinforce that community feel which you get when driving in on the main road.


Unlike DR Horton, TurnerHeritage.com does have floor plans available for viewing.

If you need more assistance, just ask.

[SHELLY]

D.R. Horton has been building a "ghost town" just past Hurlburt Field (between FWB & Pensacola) right ON Hwy 98. Last year when I drove by there they had what I suspect were the Hispanic day-workers' wives and kids waiving "New Homes" arrow-signs outside the complex (starting at $375,000 a copy). I passed there today and some houses were finished, but all were empty--there were also lots of empty lots too. My bud on Pensacola Beach told me they've abandoned the idea of using high-cost concrete block construction in the complex and are going with stick-built....if they ever find anyone interested in buying one. I imagine they'll still include SS and GCT though.

Coincidently D.R. Horton announced its quarterly earnings today--down 85%...who knew??

.

[dunelover]

Shelly and SJ--Thanks for the info... I have never had a good feel for DR Horton, although they just entered the market where we live. Their reputation for building cheap suprises me that they would be invited in to Hammock Bay---although I have never driven thru, just read online and viewed their site.

I have looked at turners site, and not found the style I like. Maybe the whole area (Hammock bay) is wrong for me, I really like the cottage style but w/ more land---room enough to play softball w/ my kids w/out doing it on the beach! If you guys would like to direct me to a good area w/ possible purchase prices (including lot) in the 400K for 2,000 sq. ft. that would be great. I also need to be close enough for a 2-3,000 sq. ft warehouse space for our business to relocate as well.

I know both sides of being in a new development---appreciation if it all comes to fruition w/ the downside of continual construction. But, there is always that possiblity of not completing the project on time because of slow sales----so, I may talk myself in to something that is more complete.

On a side note, I noticed the Parade of Homes (i think that is what it is called there) is in June. Do you expect that week would be better than any other for looking at builders/developments?

[SHELLY]

I have looked at turners site, and not found the style I like. Maybe the whole area (Hammock bay) is wrong for me, I really like the cottage style but w/ more land---room enough to play softball w/ my kids w/out doing it on the beach! If you guys would like to direct me to a good area w/ possible purchase prices (including lot) in the 400K for 2,000 sq. ft. that would be great. I also need to be close enough for a 2-3,000 sq. ft warehouse space for our business to relocate as well.

Dune,

What type of product do you manufacture? Do you have a website?

.

[dunelover]

Shelly--

We manufacture gymnastics equipment, balance beams mainly. Yes, the site is www.thebeamstore.com Thanks for asking.

We sell mainly online, so we are free to finally pursue our dream of living by the beach. I hope warehouse space isn't too hard to find. I see they are putting things up at a good pace commercially around there.

[SHELLY]

Shelly--

We manufacture gymnastics equipment, balance beams mainly. Yes, the site is www.thebeamstore.com Thanks for asking.

We sell mainly online, so we are free to finally pursue our dream of living by the beach. I hope warehouse space isn't too hard to find. I see they are putting things up at a good pace commercially around there.

Interesting...

I'm sure you've already considered the obvious problems dealing with wood (moving from a dry climate (OK) to a humid climate). And I'm assuming you won't be concerned about labor force availability. But then there is the added cost for a climate controlled warehouse environment, access to shipping and...of course...wind insurance gouging.

IMO, you'd be wise to concentrate on finding a suitable warehouse space first and foremost...and leave the house-hunting for later--especially if you are depending on your business income to support your living arrangement. There will be plenty of rentals available (especially after tourist season) and (again IM0) there is no need to rush into housing--especially in this market environment.

My 2-cents....it's worth what you've paid for it.

Best of Luck.

.


.

[dunelover]

There will be plenty of rentals available (especially after tourist season) and (again IM0) there is no need to rush into housing--especially in this market environment.

.

You hit the nail on the head. I think that is really the goal--find a rental in the area that we would eventually like to put roots and evaluate things.. But, yes affordable labor is a concern. I have seen the threads on that issue. Shipping, --no concern--FedEx is everywhere, and humidity is a non issue. Good thoughts and insights though. I saw your thread on your insurance too---yikes....that would be a plus to Oklahoma, although we had a tornado hit one block from our house two weeks ago...

For now, I will keep watching, learning and dreaming... At least I have a visit coming in August if not before.

[Smiling JOe]

Warehouse space is a rare thing around here, although there are a few on Hwy 393 N, and one on Hwy 331, just north of Hwy 20. That warehouse will probably cost as much at the home for which you are searching. I think Shelly's point of finding the warehouse first, is a very good one.

[dunelover]

SJ---yes, I have found that it is rare. I did speak w/ someone a month or so ago, that was going to be putting up a new location of warehouse spaces. That is why I was looking in and around the Freeport area. But, w/ those prices for warehouse space I may find myself just visiting more. Thanks for your input, i value it.

[beachmouse]

It's a hike to the beach from there, but the Mossy Head area might work. It's a little bit rednecky, but lots of 5-10 acre parcels of residential land, some commercial/industrial zoned areas since they're close to an I-10 interchange.

Also probably a little bit easier to find good employees at lower wages than you would closer to the beach. Lots of people that live north of I-10 and work down by the beach would love to find a nice job closer to home so they didn't have to commute 2+ hours every day.

[dunelover]

Just got this email from D.R. Horton in RE: to Hammock Bay, thought you guys might enjoy the price reductions... didn't look up the sq. ft, but should be easy to do if interested.

[Smiling JOe]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, DR Horton is wanting to move these products prior to completing their new lower priced, different style houses which are under construction. I understand that they will be ditching the formica counter tops, vinyl flooring in bathrooms, and cheap looking fiber glass tubs, none of which are selling $420,000 houses. Their newer product will be one story (saving more costs) and probably be more nicely appointed, and priced at a similar price as these reduced prices.

[SHELLY]

I understand that they will be ditching the formica counter tops, vinyl flooring in bathrooms, and cheap looking fiber glass tubs, none of which are selling $420,000 houses.

In other words...Flipper Houses.

.

[Smiling JOe]

In other words...Flipper Houses.

.

I like formica counter tops, vinyl bathroom floors and decent (these aren't all decent) fiberglass showers, but not when I'm paying $420K for a new house in Hammock Bay right now.

[SHELLY]

I like formica counter tops, vinyl bathroom floors and decent (these aren't all decent) fiberglass showers, but not when I'm paying $420K for a new house in Hammock Bay right now.

Apparently DR Horton hit a wall when it came time to put in the fixtures and went on the cheap just to get them finished and out on the lot.

420K is SS & GCT territory.


.

[Busta Hustle]

Seriously folks no one is swarming for deals in Freeport are they?

[FLSunChaser]

Seriously folks no one is swarming for deals in Freeport are they?

Not on these DR Horton houses. Seriously, my husband and I thought Hammock Bay sounded so nice (I think in the future it will be), and then we drove through there and couldn't get out of there fast enough after seeing some of the crap DR-H is building in there. There should really be a little bit for ARB control.
I've been in other Dr-H houses and they are okay, but I just really think they went WAY on the cheap in Hammock Bay and it shows.

[Smiling JOe]

Fortunately, I think most of DR Horton's lots/homes are all in one neighborhood in Hammock Bay.

[beachmouse]

The Turner Heritage model seemed pretty nice, with reasonably good materials. Unfortunately, Jay Odom's heart is in the right place, but his sense of taste runs to Cheez Whiz, and the cheesiness does seem to be in force in Hammock Bay.

As for the lack of people swarming to Freeport, prices are still too high for service industry folks working in SoWal. The white collar employees can find housing elsewhere (closer to their jobs) for similar prices. I'd hate to have to commute from Freeport to Destin or Panama City every day. You're a hike from the beach, and there just isn't really any reason to live in Freeport right now unless you own of the bay or bayou, work at the shipyard or are a service industry worker who bought pre-boom.

[SHELLY]

Not on these DR Horton houses. Seriously, my husband and I thought Hammock Bay sounded so nice (I think in the future it will be), and then we drove through there and couldn't get out of there fast enough after seeing some of the crap DR-H is building in there. There should really be a little bit for ARB control.
I've been in other Dr-H houses and they are okay, but I just really think they went WAY on the cheap in Hammock Bay and it shows.

Maybe then can market them as "Fixers"...a little GCT, SS, "Contractor Beige Paint" & Pergo and Voila'!! You can re-sell them at a $20,000 loss.


.

[reedtsu]

A few weeks ago I went to a Freeport City Hall meeting and several plans were approved for medical manufacturing warehouses, a medical clinic, a grocery store and even a retirement community. All of them will be located along the expansion route. I was very impressed with the way Freeport is heading. Although it is far from happening those types of high paying jobs will help support a strong local economy. Some of those 4000+ units may be absorbed and then it will not lay entirely on retires. It will also be a plus for retires that do move in.

[Busta Hustle]

windswept estates has some incredible prices going for lots and houses...if you like living in a golf course community ...i wonder how much longer that will last?

[Smiling JOe]

I saw a home sold in there a couple of days ago at under $300K. It was something like 2600sf with a two car garage, in a gated community with golf course, swimming pool and tennis courts.

[Babyblue]

What happened to Riverwalk?

[Smiling JOe]

What happened to Riverwalk?

I understand that it is in a holding pattern and the owner still plans to develope it.

[Bob]

Retirement home market in this state alone is very competitive, and Freeport is up against some pretty heavy players who are already further along in terms of development and infrastructure. I'm thinking of places like Flagler County and The Villages.

FYI...The Villages is more than 50 percent to buildout.

[yippie]

I have a lot in Hammock Bay that I would sell for the loan value. Other things are more important to me.

DR Horton is building a house next to my lot and I could not believe the price he was asking, and it was not on that advertisement. The house will never sell for what he wants.

i would also be interested in a "partnership" with a builder to put a home priced between 275-299K on the property.

If anyone is intersted, please pm me.

Thanx

[Joe Mammy]

I saw a home sold in there a couple of days ago at under $300K. It was something like 2600sf with a two car garage, in a gated community with golf course, swimming pool and tennis courts.

That is something. That makes the second sale this year in Windswept Estates under $300K, the other was actually on the 8th hole. I just played golf out there yesterday and the pool and tennis area is completed. There was nobody out there playing golf - I really like the course, not sure if it was dead because of Mother's Day or if the summer slow down is upon us. When I played in March the place was loaded with snowbirds taking advantage of reduced green fees.

[Scooter]

What about the Stables at Sandy Pines? Any feedback?