Pay to park in Seaside?

**tsutcli** · 08-16-2012, 06:07 PM

How would the word get out to new people and those not familiar with the area about where this lot is located? Locals of course would know but by who and how would others be redirected? We have arrived at the "saturation cliff" in this area vis-a-vie tourist density. Who is going to stop the TDC from making this increasingly worse every year.

**Zebraspots** · 08-16-2012, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Beach Runner

Didn't I read on this message board that parking got restricted in Grayton this summer and that people had to park in a lot north of 30A and take a shuttle bus to the businesses there? Maybe that's the solution for Seaside. During the busy times of the year, the parking area where people park for the Seaside Marathon and 5K (by Suntrust) could be used, people parking there could be shuttled to/from Seaside, and a parking fee could be charged for people not willing to take a shuttle.

I'm sure someone will point out holes in this idea. No problem -- I won't be offended.

I think it is a good solution - though when multiple communities are outgrowing their parking needs we really need to be looking at ways to move more people around without their vehicles.

**coondog** · 08-16-2012, 07:20 PM

One of the restaurant owners in Seaside reported that yesterday they were a) down 50 covers from the day before, b) did not have a single transaction at the bar at lunch time, and c) had 50% of their dinner reservations cancelled, or guests did not show up.

**Happy Camper** · 08-16-2012, 10:12 PM

This will kill local patronage of Seaside. Could not be worse timing now that the merchants are counting on the locals to come out of Summer hibernation.

I'm sure the merchants of Gulf Place, Seagrove, Watercolor, Seacrest, and Rosemary are celebrating.

**tsutcli** · 08-16-2012, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Zebraspots

I think it is a good solution - though when multiple communities are outgrowing their parking needs we really need to be looking at ways to move more people around without their vehicles.

I think this property is owned by Watercolor (ST.Joe). Why would they want to do anything to help Seaside, a competitor? This area has been sowing the seeds of its own destruction for years through over-development and traffic studies which are ignored before projects are approved. Everyone knows that code enforcement is a joke around here. I have personal experience with a project near me on the beach that was approved as comprised of 3 BR condos, three to the building. After construction, these were boldly advertised and sold as 5 BR units. Called code people about this and were told they couldn't do anything. Now they squeeze many more people into these with inadequate parking and overflow parks on the right of way. I'm sure this senario has been repeated many times over.

**Paula** · 08-17-2012, 07:17 AM

Guess we won't be stopping by Modica to get our favorite sourdough french bread. This parking will more than double the cost of the bread in both time and money. I guess one of us can wait in the car while the other runs in and gets it, but that's not going to help the parking/traffic flow situation either.

**James Bentwood** · 08-17-2012, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by tsutcli

I think this property is owned by Watercolor (ST.Joe). Why would they want to do anything to help Seaside, a competitor? This area has been sowing the seeds of its own destruction for years through over-development and traffic studies which are ignored before projects are approved. Everyone knows that code enforcement is a joke around here. I have personal experience with a project near me on the beach that was approved as comprised of 3 BR condos, three to the building. After construction, these were boldly advertised and sold as 5 BR units. Called code people about this and were told they couldn't do anything. Now they squeeze many more people into these with inadequate parking and overflow parks on the right of way. I'm sure this senario has been repeated many times over.

Destruction? Really? A tad dramatic.

I believe parking is regulated by square footage. It doesn't matter if you call it a 3br or a 10br. Of course it would matter to the buyer if they thought they bought a 5br and walked in and it only had 3. So I am calling bull on you. Also, parking on the public right away is allowed.

Sounds like maybe you have some other issue with the project. You sound just like a few others I know who moved here and now don't want anyone else to.

So many negative posts from you. I wish you would just start a gripe thread and tell us what's really bothering you. Let it flow until you have nothing else to do but take a serene walk ont he beach.

**Lake View Too** · 08-17-2012, 07:40 AM

In general, kids, I think we have seen an over-reaction, similar in nature to the oil spill scare. I have absolutely no facts to on, but from general observations, I think, just maybe, Seaside was trying out this valet parking scheme for events only. There was a concert the other night, and that's when they tried it. Everything is back to normal now. Put down the pitchforks.

**tsutcli** · 08-17-2012, 07:58 AM

Number of required parking spaces is determined by number of bedrooms. And while it is allowed to park on right of way it does nothing to add to the " Scenic Corridor" designation which so many people worked hard to obtain. As I said in another post, and I've read other people here say the same thing, it is becoming a little too much like Little Destin here.
I guess it depends on your definition of what destruction is, how far do things have to go? Is there anyone who thinks the character of the area hasn't changed for the worst over the years? The fact of this thread is one example that it has. "Dramatic" - maybe, but it's appropriate if you care, or are you one of those who only care about putting "heads in beds".
And I would take a walk on the beach if I could make my way around the private beach signs, holes in the sand, avoid dogs off the leash, etc. that are the complaints of many here if you believe them.

**beachma** · 08-17-2012, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Lake View Too

In general, kids, I think we have seen an over-reaction, similar in nature to the oil spill scare. I have absolutely no facts to on, but from general observations, I think, just maybe, Seaside was trying out this valet parking scheme for events only. There was a concert the other night, and that's when they tried it. Everything is back to normal now. Put down the pitchforks.

So you are saying that when we come down next week, paying for parking will not be an issue at Seaside?

**coondog** · 08-17-2012, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Lake View Too

In general, kids, I think we have seen an over-reaction, similar in nature to the oil spill scare. I have absolutely no facts to on, but from general observations, I think, just maybe, Seaside was trying out this valet parking scheme for events only. There was a concert the other night, and that's when they tried it. Everything is back to normal now. Put down the pitchforks.

This is about as factual as it gets. "One of the restaurant owners in Seaside reported that yesterday they were a) down 50 covers from the day before, b) did not have a single transaction at the bar at lunch time, and c) had 50% of their dinner reservations cancelled, or guests did not show up".

This is not an events only scheme, and I have personally seen the stream of emails from the Seaside merchants to Robert Davis outlining the impact that this has had on their business, if only for the single day.

**Lake View Too** · 08-17-2012, 11:23 AM

Yes, there were severe consequences for that one day. The day after, there didn't seem to be valet parking. Today, there doesn't seem to be valet parking. Maybe, it was like a summer thunderstorm. It reeks havoc, and then it's gone.

**beachma** · 08-17-2012, 04:08 PM

I hope that that is the case. I'm perplexed why this was ever even considered, much less actually "tested". Who and why would anyone complain about people coming to your area to spend money? I don't get it. Has anyone ever tried to get a parking spot in Grayton Beach anywhere near the Red Bar on any given summer evening?

**Lake View Too** · 08-17-2012, 05:06 PM

It's pretty unreasonable, really. Sure, it can be difficult to find a parking place when there is an event. But, this happens everywhere. Try finding a spot in Tallahassee during a football game. It's just a part of life. If you can't deal with "creative parking", then maybe you should go elsewhere. It's actually Darwinism, in a way. The clever will inherit the earth, or, at least, the good parking spots. It's kind of like complaining about the 3-way stop at the Viridian. It works. Maybe not great, sometimes. But, generally speaking, it's all good.

**Teresa** · 08-17-2012, 06:35 PM

As far as we know it was a one day test for possible use for peak/holiday weeks and maybe events.

Lake View - creative parking is definitely a learned local skill. Never have had a problem finding a parking place anywhere on Scenic 30A. Not even at Red Bar! A few weeks ago the cop outside red bar helped us create our own space. Very nice dude.

**BeachSiO2** · 08-17-2012, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Teresa

As far as we know it was a one day test for possible use for peak/holiday weeks and maybe events.

Lake View - creative parking is definitely a learned local skill. Never have had a problem finding a parking place anywhere on Scenic 30A. Not even at Red Bar! A few weeks ago the cop outside red bar helped us create our own space. Very nice dude.

But you are part of the system, they can't upset you.

**happy2Bme** · 08-17-2012, 09:04 PM

Seaside invites the public to their weekly summer concert series, provides inadequate parking in general, and pay-as-you-go valet parking that is inefficient, then give them a "ticket" for parking in the public parking areas within the residential section (not in someone's personal parking area)......would you be inclined to go back, or have a good memory of your time spent there? You can't seek the people's money without their presence, and they can't be present if you don't allow for "unconventional parking" during sporadic events.

**Teresa** · 08-17-2012, 09:30 PM

What system is that?
You gotta know when to go and when to stay in the woods. That is my system.

**Beach Runner** · 08-17-2012, 09:34 PM

In the summer when we want Pizza Bar, we call in for takeout, hubby drops me off, circles around, then when I get the pizza, I call him, and we rendezvous. It takes as much as 30 minutes to get a parking spot in the summer and spring break, so we don't even attempt eating in Seaside anymore during those time periods. When I drive down alone (well, with my big protective poodle), I don't order my takeout until I get to the restaurant because it takes me longer to get a parking spot than it does for the pizza to be prepared.

It's great that business is so good because the in-season in South Walton is so short, and we want the local businesses to be successful to make up for the empty days in the off-season. For us one of the main attractions to South Walton is the unique non-chain restaurants. We are fortunate in that we can be there as often as we want. So a little inconvenience during spring break, June, and July is worth the privilege of being there the other 9 months of the year.

**tistheseason** · 08-18-2012, 12:05 PM

Ultimately, when the towns are all built out, I believe traffic/parking will be such a problem that we will ALL stay pretty close to home. Walking and biking to where we want to go. But I don't think we'll mind because there will be plenty of shops and restaurant choices close by. Sure, we'll miss Some of our favorite restaurants that are a few towns over, but we'll catch them in the off season. I think that's ok.

Currently, seaside has the most mature city center. Thus, the reason they are having the most traffic issues. It will balance out, I think, eventually. I'm not sure what problem the vallet really solves -- except keeping people away.

Ultimately I'd love the area to come up with a way to move people (without cars) up and down 30a. Open air trolley's paid for by merchants and the TDC would get my vote!

**Teresa** · 08-18-2012, 12:53 PM

Tis - trolleys! Of course! A great solution! Then the seaside employees may even be able to park near work.

I think seaside would be great with NO cars anywhere.

**Abby Prentiss** · 08-23-2012, 07:05 PM

The town built on the New Urbanism premise of its inhabitants being able to walk everywhere has a problem: what to do with all the cars?

Over the years since its inception, Seaside has become very popular with not only vacation renters but also tourists and area locals who go there to dine, shop, or just walk around. Billing itself as family friendly, the town has also made a point to offer activities that are open to the public to lure even more people to town to shop and dine. And as the town nears build out in construction, more residences and shops have been added, which has meant more people in the town — and their cars.

Unfortunately, the town was not built to accommodate the volume of traffic. Each rental house typically has enough space to park two cars belonging to the home's renters.

In the town's circle, along County Road 30A, in a small parking area on 30A, and around the Lyceum are the town's only public parking areas.

Seaside Community Development Corporation brought in a consulting firm last November to make recommendations. One of the recommendations was given a one-day trial run Aug. 15 when the town circle was roped off and no cars were allowed to enter except via a $5 fee for valet parking.

Social media sites lit up with indignant posts by area locals who were not accustomed to paying a $5 fee to be able to shop or dine in the town.

Some shop owners seemed accepting of the experiment, while others indicated they were not pleased, but did not want to be quoted.

Bert Summerville, who lives in the town and owns a business there, said she saw a very slow business day during the trial.

"It was raining and we had no people," she said, noting that her arts and crafts store typically sees more business during rainy days.

Lori Smith, Seaside’s Community Development Corporation's new director of public relations and marketing, stressed that the valet parking was simply a test.

"Some merchants were positive," she said. "They know we're trying to work on issues and they've been involved in the process since the beginning, but from both merchant and patron feedback, we feel this is not our best option. We know that now. Everyone's looking for our best option, but we had to test it out."

Smith said a good number of people used the valet service.

"It was convenient for some and we got a lot of positive comments, but there were also those who are used to the way it has always been and didn't like the change," she added.

One test that did go well that day, Smith said, was the off-site employee parking. Employees normally park on Smolian Circle, but that day, they were shuttled to Seaside from a vacant lot on County Road 283 that was leased for the day.

"That test was a positive experience and it freed up almost 200 parking spaces," said Smith.

As for what the next option or test will be, Smith said she isn’t certain.

"We are going to reassess," she said.

Smith said the success of Seaside merchants and the comfort of the town's guests and patrons is the utmost concern for SCDC.

"We are working diligently to research and provide solutions that are in the best interest for all involved and to allow easy access to Seaside," she said. "Our aim is to provide the most positive solution for our merchant businesses as well as offer a warm, inviting experience for our Seaside regulars, local patrons and out-of-town guests. We want to allow as many as possible to continue to enjoy the rich traditions, convenience and availability that the Seaside community has always offered."

**Mightyern** · 08-24-2012, 02:28 PM

New Urbanism and walkable communities may work where there are not thousands of tourists traveling by car...which is not the case here. I am allllll about walking or biking to anywhere I can safely do so. This is a small tourist town that is busting at the seams. SoWal is indeed too big for its britches. Infrastructure is a serious necessity when you have this many people in a small area. That infrastructure is what we are lacking not just in Seaside, but county wide.

I did have questions about how late night employees (bars & restaurants) plan to get these people BACK to their vehicles if they intend to stop shuttles at 12 a.m. Anyone??

**30achris** · 09-07-2012, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by ckhagen

They can't possibly enforce that.

The towns of Seaside, Seacrest, and Rosemary are masterplan communities. All roads are private. They can tow your car off of their private property. They cannot give you a ticket. Nor do you have to pay the 1% sales tax, so stop doing that, say no to seaside revenue taxes like parking and sales tax. They can look to associate that car with a homeowner and fine the homeowner. If you pay a ticket, you are foolish.

**30achris** · 09-07-2012, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by justhavinfun

You are not alone! You have to wonder who the rocket scientist was that came up with this idea - Sounds like a good opportunity for one of our newly elected commissioners to address this issue? You also have to wonder if "Seaside" is a private community? If so, who would write the ticket if someone parked in a handicapped spot? The Sheriffs Department or does Seaside now have a private police force? WTF over!!

Well not a rocket scientist. These master plan communities are controlled by the Rental company and the POA. They did not do their trial during season because the Rental company wants to try it out on you locals first. They call the shots. The rental company does not work for the shops, the shops work for them.

It is easy, you don't need to spend time in the master plan areas of Seaside and Rosemary with their parking fees and towing of customer cars. Cafe 30A and Cafe Tango is every bit as good as Paridis and Bud and Alleys. Go there. You don't need lacrema and crush, try La Bamba in seagrove. Need a sports bar, try shades or whiskey Bravo. Seriously, stop being a local and start being a townie. Townies go where they are wanted and find the best values. This email has made me hungry, I am going to that irish place in Blue mountain for pizza. So many great places on 30a that have nothing to do with the power brokers of the master plan communities.

**30achris** · 09-07-2012, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mightyern

New Urbanism and walkable communities may work where there are not thousands of tourists traveling by car...which is not the case here. I am allllll about walking or biking to anywhere I can safely do so. This is a small tourist town that is busting at the seams. SoWal is indeed too big for its britches. Infrastructure is a serious necessity when you have this many people in a small area. That infrastructure is what we are lacking not just in Seaside, but county wide.

I did have questions about how late night employees (bars & restaurants) plan to get these people BACK to their vehicles if they intend to stop shuttles at 12 a.m. Anyone??

Agreed, why can't any leadership just take a trip to Crested Bute (my favorite) or any other ski town and see that free public transportation around the clock keeps cars parked at rental homes until it is time to leave. They collect the bed tax, then spend it poorly. Note, I am not an advocate of free because I want it cheap or I don't want to pay. I am an advocate of free because it eliminates complexity and promotes usage. The bed tax generates the revenue, the bus system eliminates the parking issues for all of 30a.

**Arkiehawg** · 09-07-2012, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by 30achris

Well not a rocket scientist. These master plan communities are controlled by the Rental company and the POA. They did not do their trial during season because the Rental company wants to try it out on you locals first. They call the shots. The rental company does not work for the shops, the shops work for them.

It is easy, you don't need to spend time in the master plan areas of Seaside and Rosemary with their parking fees and towing of customer cars. Cafe 30A and Cafe Tango is every bit as good as Paridis and Bud and Alleys. Go there. You don't need lacrema and crush, try La Bamba in seagrove. Need a sports bar, try shades or whiskey Bravo. Seriously, stop being a local and start being a townie. Townies go where they are wanted and find the best values. This email has made me hungry, I am going to that irish place in Blue mountain for pizza. So many great places on 30a that have nothing to do with the power brokers of the master plan communities.

Amen!

Lived here almost 10 years now and never have understand the attraction to an overcrowded place like Seaside.... SoWal and 30A is much, much larger than that anti-local turdist trap. Give me Grayton Beach, BMB, Gulf Place, Seagrove, Dune Allen any day of the week over that area.....

**Andy A** · 09-07-2012, 09:21 AM

May I join the group? We moved here permanently in 2003 and have owned since 1991 when Seaside was still a pup. When we first bought here, we looked at Seaside and condos to the East. We ended up in BMB and I"m sure glad we did. I can easily now do without Seaside. A word about urbanism. It is a great concept but it should be able to be developed on all four sides, S, E, N, W. If it isn't it probably will not function too well, so Seaside does not fit the model to a tee.

**ata** · 09-07-2012, 09:34 AM

what i don't like about bmb is the beaches are very narrow and very crowded. And it seems to have the most problems with people claiming its there private beach from retreat to many of the condo's. I swear several of those homes near mike huccabees are going to slide onto the beach

**kurt** · 09-07-2012, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by ata

what i don't like about bmb is the beaches are very narrow and very crowded. And it seems to have the most problems with people claiming its there private beach from retreat to many of the condo's. I swear several of those homes near mike huccabees are going to slide onto the beach

Several have and I have pics to prove it. Expect more in the future. :sad:

**Andy A** · 09-07-2012, 09:50 AM

You have just recited one of the best reasons for beach renourishment. BMB is not for tourist crowds, though it is tourist friendly. Like much of SoWal there is room for only so many.

**hippiechick** · 09-07-2012, 12:54 PM

[QUOTE=Andy A;772315]You have just recited one of the best reasons for beach renourishment. BMB is not for tourist crowds, though it is tourist friendly. Like much of SoWal there is room for only so many.[/QUOTE]
**********

Really? BMB is not for Tourist crowds? You are implying it is best left to the homeowners to enjoy, after all they own the Beach right? I live in a house ON the BEACH in Seagrove. My Deed says I own the Beach down to the mean water line. But unlike you, I am happy to share my piece of Paradise with Tourists! Sometimes there are rude people, or unleashed dogs, but you know what, every day is a good day when you are at the Beach! As far are Beach nourishment is concerned, it is like flushing money down the drain. Each new storm will sweep it all away, and bring it back it in. Beaches repair themselves. If someones home is in danger of falling because it is too close to the edge of a dune, I get that that would be a bad situation to be in. Move your house back. Besides if you let your Beach be renourished, they take ownership it. Its true check it out. Stop being such a snob.

**Arkiehawg** · 09-07-2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by hippiechick

[QUOTE=Andy A;772315]You have just recited one of the best reasons for beach renourishment. BMB is not for tourist crowds, though it is tourist friendly. Like much of SoWal there is room for only so many.

**********

Really? BMB is not for Tourist crowds? You are implying it is best left to the homeowners to enjoy, after all they own the Beach right? I live in a house ON the BEACH in Seagrove. My Deed says I own the Beach down to the mean water line. But unlike you, I am happy to share my piece of Paradise with Tourists! Sometimes there are rude people, or unleashed dogs, but you know what, every day is a good day when you are at the Beach! As far are Beach nourishment is concerned, it is like flushing money down the drain. Each new storm will sweep it all away, and bring it back it in. Beaches repair themselves. If someones home is in danger of falling because it is too close to the edge of a dune, I get that that would be a bad situation to be in. Move your house back. Besides if you let your Beach be renourished, they take ownership it. Its true check it out. Stop being such a snob.

In defense to AA. I believe you misinterpreted what he was saying. AA hasn't been like the Retreat folks who believe that they are the only ones that should be on the beach. From his comments in the past he has felt that the beach is for everyone. Just respect it and keep it clean.

Stating that, I believe he was trying to say that the beaches in BMB are too narrow for large tourist groups. I would agree. Since they put in the huge complexes like Adagio the beaches have looked like something out of South Beach in the summer...a real zoo. The beaches can handle only so many people and was adequate for the numbers prior to the megacondo developments. BMB is still a wonderful beach in the fall/winter/spring but I rarely go there in the summer and I only live 1/4 mile from it....

**Andy A** · 09-08-2012, 09:47 AM

Thank you, Arkiehawg for the very good clarification. It is absolutely correct. As you pointed out, we have always considered our beach open to anyone who wants to use it. As for renourishment, not so hippiechick might want to contact Brad Pickle to find out theadvantages to beach renourishment. One more thing. It would make me joyous to see all beaches in Florida declared public because God created them for everyone.