Remove Septic Tanks on beaches and lakes

[Jim Tucker]

It's past time to have these removed! It's South Walton's dirty little secret. There are septic tanks and drain fields that drain right into the coastal dune lakes and onto the beaches.

There are drain fields right under the sand on the beaches in many places.

Don't believe it? Look at these photos of Little Alligator Lake next to Gulf Trace in Grayton Beach in 2005 - http://www.sowal.com/photo-archive/photos-080305.html



That is styrofoam from drainfields washed out in Gulf Trace. The homeowners there are too cheap to hook up to sewer even though Regional Utilities gave them a deal.
They should be FORCED to hook up and remove the drain fields!

Any lake you see with a house on it probably has drain fields - Grayton Beach has a lot of them - you know the lake outlet where kids like to play? Often has unsafe bacteria levels.

[Jim Tucker]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Crystal Steele

June 21, 2012 850-892-8021, ext 1139
WALTON COUNTY WEEKLY BEACH SAMPLING RESULTS Walton County Saltwater Beach Monitoring Results Walton County - The Walton County Health Department has been conducting saltwater beach water quality monitoring at seven sites once every week since August 1, 2000, through the Healthy Beaches Monitoring Program. The water samples are being analyzed for enteric bacteria (enterococci) that normally inhabit the intestinal tract of humans and animals, which may cause human disease, infections, or rashes. The presence of enteric bacteria is an indication of fecal pollution, which may come from stormwater runoff, pets and wildlife, and human sewage. The purpose of the Healthy Beaches Monitoring Program is to determine whether Florida has significant coastal beach water quality problems and whether future beach monitoring efforts are necessary.

Site	Name	Enterococci	Water Quality	Enterococci Geometric Mean	Water Quality
SP-1	Miramar Beach	548	Poor	52.48	Poor
SP-3	Dune Allen Beach	28	Good	15.06	Good
SP-4	Blue Mountain Beach	572	Poor	30.21	Good
SP-5	Grayton Beach	304	Poor	39.07	Poor
SP-7	Holly Street Beach	92	Moderate	15.55	Good
SP-8	Eastern Lake Beach	328	Poor	34.76	Good
SP-9	Inlet Beach Access	356	Poor	42.20	Poor

Water quality classifications are based upon the United States Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA’s) recommended
standard for enterococci of greater than or equal to 104 colony forming units per 100 milliliters of marine water.
Health Advisories have been issued for Miramar Beach, Blue Mountain Beach, Grayton Beach, Eastern Lake Beach and
Inlet Beach Access based on the enterococci standard recommended by the EPA. This should be considered a potential
health risk to the bathing public.
If you should have any questions, please contact the Walton County Health Department at (850) 892-8021, or visit the Department of Health’s Internet Beach Water Quality website www.doh.state.fl.us, click on “Floridians and Visitors” – under “Food, Water, Air, Land,” choose “Beach Water Quality.”

[reece]

hi
i just saw on my FB page from the sheriff that the health dept issued an advisory for several beaches in so wal. does anyone have any info on this? does anyone even pay attention to this stuff? i'm betting 99% of the people on the beach don't even know about it and are happily frolicking in the beautiful water right now :)

[Mayor of 30a]

Won't matter tommorow will be Doubke reds

[lauralbardin]

They shouldn't be in water on red flags. And health advisories are posted at all public beach accesses. But again- shouldn't be in water...

[NotDeadYet]

The advisory is here on this thread:
http://sowal.com/bb/showthread.php/6...ches-and-lakes

That's a pretty lame comment that it doesn't matter since it's red flags. Would it matter to you if it were green or yellow flags??
IMHO it ought to matter to all of us - what is the source(s) of this bacteria and what can we do about it??

[Jim Tucker]

Septic Tanks - as the other thread says.

[NotDeadYet]

Septic Tanks - as the other thread says.

I have no doubt that is a factor. What I am wondering is if that is the only source.

[lauralbardin]

Always amazing how rude some people can be- post your comment without putting down someone else- just saying... It's uncalled for...

[Jim Tucker]

Always amazing how rude some people can be- post your comment without putting down someone else- just saying... It's uncalled for...

Huh?

[lauralbardin]

Notdeadyet... Calling comment lame... Could have made the comment without the "lame" statement... Not necessary

[mputnal3]

This issue is as important to Walton County as anything else I know of. There are too many septic tanks and not enough sewer mains to connect to. I have applied for a sewer connection and have been turned down because of the distance to a sewer main (less than 250 feet). It is an unbelievable process to get connected to the sewer. I am wondering if they are over capacity or something. I do not know if there is a separate sewer facility on the South side of the Bay or not but I am talking about on the North side all around Choctawhatchee Bay. There are many septic tanks that do not function properly. The cost to connect has become increasing prohibitive for reasons that I can not explain. You will pay many fees to connect including removal of your septic system and then there will be equipment cost like pumping tanks. If this problem is ever going to get solved we will have to have assistance from our government very likely. If we are serious about tourism and good water quality we will need to address this problem very soon. I hope that we all keep insisting on spending to improve infrastructure BEFORE spending on expensive marketing studies and advertising campaigns. Again, this is one of the most important issues facing this county!

[Scooter]

Notdeadyet... Calling comment lame... Could have made the comment without the "lame" statement... Not necessary

Just returned from Grayton beach for the week. My son and his wife were extremely sick (throwing up and diarrhea) on Thurs. nite. We thought that it was food poisoning. Couldn't figure out where it had come from though. On Friday, they were still at the cottage sick, my husband and I were on the beach when the Sheriff came by alerting everyone that the Animal Fecal Matter in the gulf was at very high levels and to stay out. My husband had swam on Wed. Well, he was sick, same symptoms, all the way back to Georgia today. He is in bed now horribly sick. Luckily, I always travel with Lomotal and Phengran. The Sheriff said that it was due to the heavy rains and was run-off. Western Lake was fine to swim in, he just said stay out of the Gulf. As I started speaking to people in Grayton, I found out many, many people are extremely ill from the same thing.

[Beach Runner]

Gosh, the water sample results are plain scary. And the styrofoam in the photos -- it should be banned. You know that so many establishments use styrofoam for takeout boxes and/or drink cups. Cafe Thirty-A is one that uses paper takeout boxes. The environment appreciates that!

[Scooter]

This absolutely disgusts me. I have been visiting Grayton for over 20 yrs. now and have never had a problem. Both my son, his wife, their 17 month old child and my husband got sick this week. Horribly sick. Like ruin your vacation sick. How can this be with all of the visit south walton advertising that's been going on.

[UofL]

Extremely disappointing. Almost back in Louisville after week on 30a. Do we return? Sorry about Scooters family. Lots to think about. Ellen

[Mightyern]

What ever happened to our beaches being Blue Wave Certified??

http://www.cleanbeaches.com/

[jcpd2]

If you rent in Grayton, you will be closer to the contamination than other areas. It all runs downhill out of Gulf Trace into the Gulf.

[NotDeadYet]

If you rent in Grayton, you will be closer to the contamination than other areas. It all runs downhill out of Gulf Trace into the Gulf.

I think there is more to it than Gulf Trace. The current has been east to west for at least a week now, maybe longer, and the test results east of Grayton were bad too. I am not downplaying Gulf Trace - those septics should have been gone years ago - but I am worried that if we focus exclusively on that problem we will miss something else that needs to be fixed.

[jcpd2]

I would think the Miramar area may be influenced by runoff of many commercial areas that aren't in the numbers as along 30A.

[bluecat]

Is this a common happening?Wondering because we have usually have the grand children with us in Grayton.

[Wuchie]

I am worried about our vacation plans the 3rd week of July. We've never been to Sowal, and it seems like the water conditions are looking pretty grim. Any thoughts?

[Zebraspots]

Just returned from Grayton beach for the week. My son and his wife were extremely sick (throwing up and diarrhea) on Thurs. nite. We thought that it was food poisoning. Couldn't figure out where it had come from though. On Friday, they were still at the cottage sick, my husband and I were on the beach when the Sheriff came by alerting everyone that the Animal Fecal Matter in the gulf was at very high levels and to stay out. My husband had swam on Wed. Well, he was sick, same symptoms, all the way back to Georgia today. He is in bed now horribly sick. Luckily, I always travel with Lomotal and Phengran. The Sheriff said that it was due to the heavy rains and was run-off. Western Lake was fine to swim in, he just said stay out of the Gulf. As I started speaking to people in Grayton, I found out many, many people are extremely ill from the same thing.

I find it odd that the lake is okay if the gulf is not. Anything washing into the gulf washes into the lakes too.

[Zebraspots]

There are many septic tanks all over the area, so it is unfair to blame just one subdivision.
Hopefully with the attention this is getting we can finally focus on the infrastructure problems that will just continue to get worse.

[Moto-zen]

I have lived in SRB for over 15 years. In that time I have NEVER seen an advisory against beach water conditions. (the bay, well that is a different story.) The studies were negative for fecal coliform. So, it's not the septic situation, that's why the dune lakes are all good.
It is of no coincidence that this is happening during the first good storm since the spill. If anyone feels differently, I know who you are still getting checks from.

[Jdarg]

Dinner discussion tonight with engineer husband (who is Geek of Most Things)..anyway, there was so much rain in Pensacola and other communities west of here, so much bad run-off, plume moves down the coast maybe? Not out of the realm of possibility. Yes, we have old septic systems here, but it seems a bit of a stretch to say that they are causing the problem with a large body of water like the Gulf. The dune lakes are a bigger issue with the septic systems, and supposedly they are not having a water quality problem now. I can see the bigger city scenario a lot easier- maybe it is a storm related event from a couple of weeks ago. So let's step back and take a deep breath before everyone goes nuts and thinks all of 30A has failing septic systems contributing to a community-wide water quality problem.

The law of large numbers factor also may be in play. I am sure every week there are families here with a gastro virus- sometimes timing just sucks. They probably had a better chance of catching it anywhere but the Gulf, and I am also wondering why we have not heard of a big outbreak if the water is so bad that it is making people sick. Where is 30A Skunkape- he usually is on the pulse of stuff like this because he is on the front line medically.

But back to septic tanks- this is not a place for septic systems anywhere near the dune lakes, or any water, period. They need to be removed. Time to catch up with the modern days- right, Walton County?

[Zebraspots]

I have lived in SRB for over 15 years. In that time I have NEVER seen an advisory against beach water conditions. (the bay, well that is a different story.) The studies were negative for fecal coliform. So, it's not the septic situation, that's why the dune lakes are all good.
It is of no coincidence that this is happening during the first good storm since the spill. If anyone feels differently, I know who you are still getting checks from.

Bacteria from poop is not something we can blame on BP. Rain and flooding send a lot downstream.

[reece]

oh, i'm really sorry to hear about your family getting sick(especially while on vacation!). We have been coming to the area for 10 years and I never even gave a 2nd thought to the water quality while there(well, except when we came down right after the oil spill, which it was fine then too). is this something that has happened before? Were people taking it seriously when the sheriff drove the beach with a warning? Is this dangerous? I wonder about infections in addition to the gastro-illnesses.

on another note, i noticed on the DOH website that the water quality advisory was also issued as far away as Pensacola, so I am not sure that the septic tanks have anything to do with this particular problem(although, i'm sure they are a problem all their own!).

So, now, when I'm planning my next vacation to the beach(any beach I suppose), I have to check the water quality before I decide if my child can get in the gulf? That's depressing.

I'd love to know how others are dealing with this situation. Actually, I wish I didn't know about it(like most people who are at the beach right now! :)

[Jdarg]

Areas west of us had a LOT of rain (like 20+ inches) a few weeks ago and serious flooding- definitely not something that happens a lot here. We have lived here 5 years and have not experienced a water health advisory either (although we did stay out of the water most of the summer after the BP spill).

As usual timing is everything, and I am sad that this water quality advisory happened during the busy tourist season (along with TS Debby- when it rains it pours). Remember that so many inland rivers, lakes, streams, and creeks are terribly dirty- and many are swimming, boating, and playing in them too. I am still stunned that people even touch a toe in the Ohio River, and thankfully there is an effort to clean up the waterways in the Louisville Parks system, but their water quality issues are bad every single day and have been for years. As populations increase, and the infrastructure does not keep up (in this case sewer systems/storm runoff, enforcing pollution rules on manufacturing and setting higher standards, and enforcing rules on individuals whose homes are contributing to the mess),we are going to see more and more of this. The Panhandle has a lot of people now- it all has to go somewhere. Even if you are not an enviro nut, you do have to agree that swimming in dirty water is really not cool- and you need to look at the reasons why it is dirty.

[lenzoe]

I thought that the dune lake sampling/monitoring was done on a monthly basis (http://sowal.com/coastal-dune-lakes-...-walton-county) as opposed to weekly. The beach water quality tests are done weekly. If that's the case, it may be misleading to say the lakes are fine unless they've done extra testing on the lakes, which I doubt.

However, if you take a look at the historical beach sampling results this is definitely unusual. For example, for both Grayton and Eastern Lake there are only a couple of moderate results in the last six years. No poors.

Florida Healthy Beaches Program

If you look at the other reports from Bay to Escambia counties, this is a wider spread issue than Walton County.

[reece]

I thought that the dune lake sampling/monitoring was done on a monthly basis (http://sowal.com/coastal-dune-lakes-...-walton-county) as opposed to weekly. The beach water quality tests are done weekly. If that's the case, it may be misleading to say the lakes are fine unless they've done extra testing on the lakes, which I doubt.

However, if you take a look at the historical beach sampling results this is definitely unusual. For example, for both Grayton and Eastern Lake there are only a couple of moderate results in the last six years. No poors.

http://esetappsdoh.doh.state.fl.us/irm00beachwater/default.aspx

If you look at the other reports from Bay to Escambia counties, this is a wider spread issue than Walton County.

yes, i agree that it's wider spread than just walton county. that's what i said before. it doesn't look like septic tanks would be the issue since it's in pensacola as well, so like another poster said, i bet it is the flooding. i'm sure it will clear up and be back to normal soon. (although i don't really like the idea of the septic tanks being an issue! ick).

i too went back to the historical data after i posted this and was happy to find out that in the last 10 years, i don't think there has been an advisory at grayton! that's comforting and makes me feel like this is due to the flooding. TS Debby may or may not make matters worse though....

[Scooter]

Like the deputy said when I spoke to him as he was leaving, "They're all out now but I don't know about two minutes from now." You can't cure stupid.

I would be more worried about the water quality, especially after this storm. So many people got violently ill this pasted week all along sowal with diarrhea and vomiting plus body aches from the high concentration of animal fecal matter in the gulf. One Walton county sheriff's deputy was in the fecal position for four days from this illness. My entire family was sick and spoke to many people in Grayton with the same symptoms. I will NEVER go back into the gulf again without checking with the walton county sheriff's office to check on water quality. Luckily, most of my family became ill at the end of our vacation.

[kurt]

I would be more worried about the water quality, especially after this storm. So many people got violently ill this pasted week all along sowal with diarrhea and vomiting plus body aches from the high concentration of animal fecal matter in the gulf. One Walton county sheriff's deputy was in the fecal position for four days from this illness. My entire family was sick and spoke to many people in Grayton with the same symptoms. I will NEVER go back into the gulf again without checking with the walton county sheriff's office to check on water quality. Luckily, most of my family became ill at the end of our vacation.

Sorry you got sick. How many people got violently ill and what makes you think it was from the water? Where did you swim?

What is the "fecal position"?

I know of a few people who got the crud this week and not from swimming. Could also be food related?

[Scooter]

The inlet wasn't really opening up into the Gulf. The Gulf was at high tide pouring over the sandbar into the lake. The garbage you were referring to was mostly seaweed.

Kurt,

Sorry, I meant fetal position. I had a feeling you would think this was something other than the water. Call Walton County Sheriff's department and ask them what they announced on the beach on Friday. I was there. "Do not swim in the Gulf." "High levels of animal fecal matter have been tested in the Gulf." "One of my deputies has been in the, excuse me, "FETAL POSITION," for the last 4 days. This was in Grayton beach. I spoke with numerous people on Friday and found out many were sick with the same illness and all swam in the Gulf.

[kurt]

Kurt,

Sorry, I meant fetal position. I had a feeling you would think this was something other than the water. Call Walton County Sheriff's department and ask them what they announced on the beach on Friday. I was there. "Do not swim in the Gulf." "High levels of animal fecal matter have been tested in the Gulf." "One of my deputies has been in the, excuse me, "FETAL POSITION," for the last 4 days. This was in Grayton beach. I spoke with numerous people on Friday and found out many were sick with the same illness and all swam in the Gulf.

I hope that if we have lots of people getting sick and the authorities know what it is from and even one of their own got sick the beaches would be closed. If the Sheriff's office was out there telling people not to swim then I would like to know that before I call and get more details.

[James Bentwood]

IF water in the gulf made people sick then this is something more widespread than septic tanks. But I highly doubt it. Bacteria concentrations would have to be through the roof to make multiple people that sick.

My guess is a rapidly spreading stomach virus or food poisoning. Some bug spread at the red bar or some other local hotspots.

[lenzoe]

I don't know if the Sheriff's Office would know the source of any contamination. The Florida DOH does the beach water quality monitoring and issues advisories if contamination hits a certain level. I would suspect the Sheriff's Office was the mechanism for posting/notification of the advisories.

I read a study somewhere that when high surf suspends upper layers of organic sediment in the water it can increase bacteria counts in the Gulf (especially around the Mississippi delta). Maybe the combination of high runoff and high surf had a double whammy effect. This settles down fairly quickly when the surf drops. On the other hand, I'm sure there have been other periods of high surf and high rain without producing poor water quality result tests, so I still think this is a puzzler.

I tried calling the DOH beach water sampling office to see if I could get more info, but the number posted on their web site didn't go through to a person.

[NotDeadYet]

I was at the Blue Mountain beach access yesterday and a health dept sign was posted - swimming not recommended due to bacteria count. I would like to know when the next round of testing is, and when the results will be posted.

[NotDeadYet]

Forgot to say, the sign was down on the beach, facing towards the water, and it wasn't very large. Maybe not the best place for it - you might not notice it until you were getting out of the water.

[Beach Runner]

I hope that if we have lots of people getting sick and the authorities know what it is from and even one of their own got sick the beaches would be closed. If the Sheriff's office was out there telling people not to swim then I would like to know that before I call and get more details.

Was the sheriff's office verbally telling people about the contamination? There are not enough sheriffs to sit in enough places on the beach to warn each person as s/he walks onto the beach. Plus taxpayers pay for their time. It's a waste of money. I don't like signs, but signs should be posted for something this critical.

Not everyone has Internet access or even knows what website to go to for this info. Even if phone numbers are available for beach info, how many vacationers or residents are going to call to find out the latest beach quality stats everytime they go to the beach? It's like, should everytime before we drink water in South Walton, do we need to call Regional Utilities to see if it's safe? As a former customer of Regional Utilities, I got a call last week about the boil water advisory but I was in GA (and I no longer own that home)! Rental guests didn't get that phone call from them. Hopefully the rental management company called the guests.

Just my opinion.

[Seagrovegirly]

Hope they retest by this weekend. Would love to play in the water but will not go near it with bacteria issues.

[30A Skunkape]

In regards to the title of this thread, I would love to see the septic tanks go, but there is a vocal group of tank owners who seem to think having a leaky septic tank is protected by the 14th Amendment. It will never happen.

Regarding the issue of people being sick from getting in the gulf, I must say I have seen no bump in people with GI illness. If there are clusters of tourists getting gastroenteritis the odds are way more likely it is due to viral infection that spreads like wildfire among confined groups. Think norovirus outbreaks on cruise ships you hear about on the news from time to time. Something about the scenario where the water that would feed bacteria into the gulf being clean (the dune lakes) while the gulf coloform levels are high just does not make sense. I like the theory that this is a fluke due to extraordinary runoff from points west combined with conditions that favor the bacteria proliferating. We'll see, I guess.

[Scooter]

Bent,

I did not go out to eat the entire time that I was there. The Walton county sheriff drove right behind us on Grayton beach with his loud speaker making the announcement. He would stop every few feet or so and make it again. People down by the water didn't even hear him. They actually came up and asked us what he said. I know most people do not want to believe it was from the Gulf. Believe me, I'm getting ready to build a home in Grayton, and this worries me. I do believe though that it was an isolated incident due to the heavy rains over the previous weeks. Pensacola hadn't had a deluge like that since the 1800's. Regarding the septic tank drains, I would be willing to join some type of committee to investigate and work to eliminate them completely.

[Mango]

I read a study somewhere that when high surf suspends upper layers of organic sediment in the water it can increase bacteria counts in the Gulf (especially around the Mississippi delta). Maybe the combination of high runoff and high surf had a double whammy effect. This settles down fairly quickly when the surf drops. On the other hand, I'm sure there have been other periods of high surf and high rain without producing poor water quality result tests, so I still think this is a puzzler.

There is also a lot of farmland to consider in that area near the Delta. I am glad you raised this.

I was sick as a dog in May in Sowal and it was definitely not from swimming in the Gulf. It was most likely viral or food poisoning. My husband had it before we left for Sowal and I got it a few days later.

Let us also not forgot to make sure we clean the beaches and leave them the way we found them since that contributes to water quality also. It's also normal to hear of water quality advisories after storms and after past hurricanes; the beaches have been closed until the water could be tested and was normal. Suspended and bedded sediments (organic and inorganic matter) get loose when you have more violent waters from storms, too.

[jack S]

This bacteria has a high survival rate in beach sand! Nutrients in the sand can make a perfect breeding ground! Our beaches have been polluted with dispersed oil, that has attached to sand grains, been moved by sea and wind up the beach and was deposited in a thick sedimentary layer below the surface. First the large trucks disturbed this layer, Then wave action. So don't be so quick to let BP off the hook. This enterococci bateria can live without feces.

[lenzoe]

Latest results from 6/25 sampling are posted:

http://esetappsdoh.doh.state.fl.us/i...?county=Walton

[Zebraspots]

Last week every area except Holley had an advisory issued and this week every area except Holley is okay? Something weird is going on.

[justhavinfun]

Just an opinion - When the coastal dune lakes break open there will be a great deal of lake water flowing into the gulf - I know from living on Eastern Lake, many residents still have septic tanks and with all the rain over the last few weeks the ground is saturated. I am not a scientist by any means but when you have the amount of rain and the lakes draining into the gulf, this has to contribute to the bacteria levels being measured. If you walk behind One Seagrove Place, there is a major drainage pipe that flows water from 30A into the gulf as well. How that was approved is beyond me..

[lenzoe]

Is the Eastern Lake outlet currently open to the gulf?

[kurt]

Just an opinion - When the coastal dune lakes break open there will be a great deal of lake water flowing into the gulf - I know from living on Eastern Lake, many residents still have septic tanks and with all the rain over the last few weeks the ground is saturated. I am not a scientist by any means but when you have the amount of rain and the lakes draining into the gulf, this has to contribute to the bacteria levels being measured. If you walk behind One Seagrove Place, there is a major drainage pipe that flows water from 30A into the gulf as well. How that was approved is beyond me..

That pipe drains wetlands north of Cassine Gardens, not sewer. So it is basically the same as a lake outflow, although there may be some parking lot, lawn, and road runoff at times mixed in.

You are right about septic tanks on lakes, but we've never seen levels bad enough to cause sickness described earlier in this thread. I am for the removal of them.

I have seen outflows stagnant for months with so much growing in them that I wouldn't put a toe in. Scary stuff after several months of summer heat and thousands of baby loads, and various dead animals in there. Good thing it's not too common.