Scenic 30A and 395 Intersection

[LuciferSam]

People who know how to drive them call them rotaries.

[cheesehead]

I think an overpass should be built. Took 15 minutes from Bruno's to 395 today, at 1pm. Shoulda known better. Oh well.

[scooterbug44]

People who know how to drive them call them rotaries.

People who "know how to drive them" have probably also mastered stop signs, the use of turn signals, and 3 way stops.

It's a traffic clusterpuck at that location, no matter what you want to call it.

[LuciferSam]

People who "know how to drive them" have probably also mastered stop signs, the use of turn signals, and 3 way stops.

It's a traffic clusterpuck at that location, no matter what you want to call it.

Well then there's no hope I guess.

[Lake View Too]

The question is: will a roundabout actually fix the clusterpuck? I really don't think that it will. I have seen more "WheelHouse Parades" in the last few days than I've seen in a long time, but I don't think that that particular occational backup is really worth gambling that a roundabout with multiple bicyclers will actually work.

[cheesehead]

sb, makes sense, but, from now, until labor day wknd, it's going to be slow rollin'

[SWGB]

The sad part is today when it was backed up to the Tom Thumb we were moving slower than I've ever moved in a July 4th Parade.

[scooterbug44]

The sad part is today when it was backed up to the Tom Thumb we were moving slower than I've ever moved in a July 4th Parade.

Were there LSV's leading the pack?

[SWGB]

Were there LSV's leading the pack?

An LSV would have died long before it got to 395. While you enjoy the wide open spaces, I spent 2 hours driving from Grand Boulevard to the Commons.

[ricky bobby]

With summer in high gear and the increased traffic in and out of the area, I think it's time someone gave some serious thought to putting a traffic light at the 3 way stop in Seagrove Beach. Sometimes the traffic is lined up for half a mile.

[kurt]

I don't think lack of a traffic light is the problem.

I liked the traffic circle proposal but it doesn't look like there is enough room for one that would be properly large. It would need to be big.

[lenzoe]

Traffic circles really do help to keep things moving. But the pedestrian crossing would have to rearranged too. Who proposed a traffic circle?

[kurt]

There was talk about a circle a few years ago and prior. I saw a drawing also. I'm sure it went out the window with the construction of the mansion on the south side and V Seagrove.

[Lake View Too]

Yes, there really isn't enough room for the size roundabout that could accomodate an eighteen wheeler. And still the problems of the vehicular roundabout interfacing with the bicycle traffic would prove unmanagable. A concept I have thought about would be to make a large "roundabout" using Holley Street and and a piece of Grove Avenue as one way streets. A bit far-fetched, but hey, it's a thought. The more reasonable idea would be to detour the bike path down Grove Street to take those numb-skulls out of the busiest intersection of our community.

The reality is, that the intersection will remain the way it is, and it works fairly good. Use that time you're stuck in the "Wheelhouse Parade", as I use to call it, to catch up on your texting.

[Beach Runner]

St. Joe owns tons of property that they can't sell. Why don't they build a bypass from 30A to 395 to make life easier for their property owners in Watersound?

The traffic is not a Seagrove problem. It's also a Seaside problem. The people in Watercolor can bypass 395/30A by going down Western Lake Drive then W. Lake Forest Drive. Why can't St. Joe do the same for the owners in Watersound? It would greatly relieve the traffic at 30A/395.

[iheart30a]

I agree, the vehicle and pedestrian traffic is a huge safety issue. I feel like the traffic lights in Rosemary keep the pedestrians from being quite so careless. Would lights at the seaside crosswalks ever be an option?

[rdelong43065]

I agree, the vehicle and pedestrian traffic is a huge safety issue. I feel like the traffic lights in Rosemary keep the pedestrians from being quite so careless. Would lights at the seaside crosswalks ever be an option?

I have to admit that I have notice a lot less carelessness at the lights in Rosemary as compared to Seagrove. Somerset Bridge Road at the Tom Thumb is like a duck shoot with everybody walking in the road. They really need sidewalks there.

[Papa J]

What's needed is another bypass from 30A to 98 half way between 395 and Rosemary. I don't know if this is a viable alternative but it would certainly help the traffic flow.

[Beach Runner]

The problem is that the distance from the east of 30A to the 395 outlet to 98 to the nearest outlet to the east of 30A to 98 at Camp Creek is much greater than from the west of 30A. To the west of 30A you can cut through Watercolor to get to 395 or take 283 or 83 directly to 98.

[TreeFrog]

There are really only a small handful of days each year when it becomes seriously congested there. Just because there's a line, doesn't mean it isn't moving. I'd be interested in hearing from a real traffic engineer, rather than all of us armchair quarterbacks.

[ameliaj]

I know that intersection is tough, but TFrog you are right it does move at a slow steady pace. The thing that scares the stuffing out of me is the spot where the bike/mixed use path crosses 30A in seagrove. Folks think nothing of just strolling across the road and tourists/newbies in cars who don't quite understand all the multiple signs just keep moving. I can't believe someone hasn't been squished right there.

[Lake View Too]

I know that intersection is tough, but TFrog you are right it does move at a slow steady pace. The thing that scares the stuffing out of me is the spot where the bike/mixed use path crosses 30A in seagrove. Folks think nothing of just strolling across the road and tourists/newbies in cars who don't quite understand all the multiple signs just keep moving. I can't believe someone hasn't been squished right there.

Both of you are correct. The intersection does work about as well as it can. I'm sure a stop light would be the worst possible thing to do. About the bike path crossing, since the Bravo is built with parking in the back, it would make a lot of sense to move the crossing further east (east of the Bravo) and design it better where it's less confusing for the bicyclers. I vote for the crosswalk to be pavers rather than the obnoxious paint-job and reflectors thing we got now. I'm not a traffic engineer... I just play one on SoWal.

[kurt]

The roundabout at Scenic 30A and 395 is on the agenda for the next Walton BCC meeting on Thursday (moved from Tuesday due to Isaac). The proposed project extends 230 feet to the west, 230 feet to the north and 1,000 feet to the east. Apparently the vacant lot on the northeast corner will provide room for a great deal of the project.

Engineering is set to begin next month with construction in the spring.

http://www.co.walton.fl.us/DocumentCenter/View/6474

[pennstater]

If they are doing this I sure hope they relocate the pedestrian bike path SOUTH of 30A east and west of the intersection.

[NotDeadYet]

The roundabout at Scenic 30A and 395 is on the agenda for the next Walton BCC meeting on Thursday (moved from Tuesday due to Isaac). The proposed project extends 230 feet to the west, 230 feet to the north and 1,000 feet to the east. Apparently the vacant lot on the northeast corner will provide room for a great deal of the project.

Engineering is set to begin next month with construction in the spring.

http://www.co.walton.fl.us/DocumentCenter/View/6474

Interesting. I always thought the intersection was too small for a roundabout, but I didn't know they had that much land available.
In general I am a fan of roundabouts, but I can't recall seeing one with a bike path incorporated into it. Sounds like an engineering challenge, and an educational challenge for drivers unfamiliar with them. So many drivers around here can't seem to grasp the function of a three-way stop.
I agree the bike path makes more sense on the south side, but then you have to get them back across to the north side west of the intersection.
Looking forward to seeing the actual plans.

[Beach Runner]

Okay, so I used Google Earth and measured 230 feet to the west and 1000 feet to the east. I'm not understanding how the roundabout that big is gonna work without tearing down a bunch of houses and the V. Maybe I am just having a brain freeze.

[NotDeadYet]

I take it to mean that the roundabout itself will be built mostly on the lot on the northeast corner, which looks big enough in the aerial, although we can't tell what the lot dimensions are. I take the "proposed project will extend etc.' to mean the approach and the bike path will be re-engineered for that distance. The county has more right of way along 30A than you would think - adjacent properties have encroached on it with landscaping - this is evident in the aerial. They won't be happy, probably.

[Carol G]

Square feet?

[Zebraspots]

I am having a hard time understanding how this would work without rerouting 395 and 30a and severely changing the surrounding houses and businesses.

Seems like a lot of trouble and expense for something that doesn't actually solve the problem.

Making traffic go in a big circle will not reduce the amount of traffic.

[tsutcli]

..and since we have a new wave of visitors each week in season, they will have to be educated anew until they are comfortable with it. I can guarantee it will slow traffic thru the intersection more than improving it, in spite of what so-called experts say.. I grew up at the Jersey shore and would routinely use the "circles", which were much larger than anything possible at this intersection. You could always tell the tourists from the locals, and I don't mean by their plates.

[kurt]

The Walton County BCC approved this project today.

[tsutcli]

What do you think of the approved traffic circle at 30A and 395? Seems like our county thinks it will keep traffic moving and it will help prevent traffic from backing up at that intersection. Oh, I don't think so!!!

[Teresa]

I don't get traffic circles or how they help in any situation.

[Lake View Too]

I really can't see how it will work, especially if the bike path is incorporated into it. One bunch of bicyclers will completely screw up the entire flow of traffic. The only solution, to me, is to detour the bike path sufficiently far away, to Grove Street, to allow vehicular traffic to flow as it should.

[Jdarg]

Hope they incorporate some spectator seating. We will have some fun watching cars, bikes, and pedestrians try and share a roundabout. The tailgating will be a blast!

[Zebraspots]

I am really looking forward to the construction process - we have traffic issues now, wait until we take away that north/south option!

[Jim Tucker]

I have seen some good circles. They have to be big enough so that people can easily keep moving without fear of pulling out while still moving.

The county is considering buying the lots on the northeast corner of 30A and 393 for added Ed Walline access parking. They should go ahead and add a circle there if they get the lot.

[momof2kids]

I really wish they would work on the intersection of 395 & 98 instead... I get anxiety when I pull up to that intersection...

[Lake View Too]

In addition to the 30-A traffic, the 395 traffic, and the bicycle traffic, it looks, to me, like there will be traffic coming out of, at least, two or three driveways entering the circle. Let's hope these homeowners aren't backing out...

[Zebraspots]

You forgot the pedestrian traffic from the beach access.

[Lake View Too]

I did a recount: It looks to be four driveways that will be using the circle in addition to 395, 30-A east, and 30-A west. On the roundabouts that I have used in Destin, the traffic is usually coming in at 25MPH or more. That is really the point of roundabouts. You don't stop, you simply yield. I would really like to feel that the people who are designing this thing are really very versed in multiple entries (7?) and I'd really like someone to explain how it will work interfacing the bike path. Does anybody know?

[lenzoe]

Sure would love to see a sketch of how the engineering firm thinks this will work. Sounds like quite a challenge.

According to this graphic, all the negative and really negative attitudes pre-traffic circle are going to be positive after construction.



Source: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersect...ects/short.cfm

[Lake View Too]

Question: Has the Walton County Road Department ever designed and constructed a roundabout? I guess there is always a chance of beginner's luck.

[Beach Runner]

From what I saw on the many roundabouts in Australia, the rule is that the vehicles in the circle have priority. All others yield to those already in the circle. So not everyone is moving. If you're not already in the roundabout, you have to wait.

[Zebraspots]

Sure would love to see a sketch of how the engineering firm thinks this will work. Sounds like quite a challenge.

According to this graphic, all the negative and really negative attitudes pre-traffic circle are going to be positive after construction.



Source: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersect...ects/short.cfm

According to the graphic, there is not a single negative opinion post construction. That is just not realistic.

I can guarantee my opinion will not suddenly become positive once it is built. I hate driving in traffic circles.
More of them will not change my opinion of them and putting one where I have to negotiate it by bike or foot certainly won't.

[Lake View Too]

Yes, the vehicles in the circle have the right of way, and hopefully keep moving to allow more cars to enter and exit. Can you imagine what happens when momma, on her second time on a bicycle, tries to herd her six children through the intersection, with "junior" pumping away, through the tears... as a long line of cars stack up on all three arteries, and a couple of homeowners try to back their SUV's out into the mix... I'm like Jdarg, I hope there's spectator seating with beer and popcorn.

[seagrover]

Lake View and Jdarg, I think we are in for a spectacle for sure. Lake View, you painted a great picture of a moment in the future. I can see it now.

[lenzoe]

According to the graphic, there is not a single negative opinion post construction. That is just not realistic.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny. It's like invasion of the body snatchers.

[kurt]

Question: Has the Walton County Road Department ever designed and constructed a roundabout? I guess there is always a chance of beginner's luck.

There are specific guidelines from FDOT about how to build a roundabout - http://www.dot.state.fl.us/TrafficOp..._guide8_07.pdf
Professional engineers will design and oversee construction.

Here are your choices:
1. do nothing, traffic at the intersection gets worse every year.
2. add traffic light, delay during heavy traffic would increase.
3. build a roundabout.
4. reduce number of cars and traffic.

A roundabout may not be a perfect solution. A high volume of pedestrian and bike traffic requires special attention to design. The current intersection is plenty dangerous now for people on bike and on foot. The current intersection is also difficult for folks trying to get out of driveways, and pulling in and out from parking across from Seagrove Market.

I have used good roundabouts. The key is to make it large enough, and place crossovers for pedestrians well away from the circle. Having only three roads there is much better than having to deal with 4, and should mean the circle can be smaller.

Normally all bikes would share the circle but since we have our awesome bike path we'll route it around. Having it cross as far away from the circle as possible will be key.

Some circles can be elongated in one or more sections if there is room. We are lucky that it is a relatively safe, low-speed intersection. If it wasn't then we'd likely need a stoplight which would back traffic up further. Seagrove Market and V Seagrove make it extra challenging.

[Lake View Too]

As long as the circle is wide enough to accommodate eighteen-wheelers, and if the problem with the four driveways is resolved, and, most especially, if the bike path is moved to a location far enough from this intersection, it would seem to be a possibly adequate solution. I haven't yet heard details that would ease my reservations. My biggest concern is that the designers would assume that bicycle traffic would merge gracefully with vehicular traffic, and that just isn't going to happen. They can draw painted bike lanes all they want, but they can't educate the multitudes as to how to use them.