Should we join WaterSound Beach Club??

[josebby]

Hey all...need your thoughts on the new WaterSound Beach Club.
The club is open to all WaterSound homeowners and guests to use until June 23rd. Homeowners have until June 30th to join.

Hope you all can help us in our decision to join:

$20,000 membership fee , 85% refundable
$675/Quarter dues
Includes upscale pool with resort atmosphere (they bring drinks and ice water to your chairs, provide towels,etc), restaurant (just serving 11-5 for now), raw bar after that at FABULOUS upstairs bar overlooking the Gulf , tennis, beach access and set-ups.
Just 100 steps to our place, Bridge Lane, so could crawl home :oops:
Our guests, even renters, can have a temporary card.
ST. Joe will offer a membership to our buyer at the then current pricing.
St. Joe takes care of all shortfalls/hurricane costs.

According to St. Joe, we have this ONE TIME opportunity to join or our HOMESITE will never be able to join again. The Beach Club is meant to give beach access to WaterSound North and West Beach homeowners, but it will be several years until those homes are built.

Our thinking: we already have beach access, three pools and great view from our porch for cocktails. Do we NEED the Beach Club for our upscale renters and future resale?

Will renters demand only those condos that have Beach Club access (rentals thru St. Joe will have it)?

Will future buyers demand only those condos with Beach Club membership?

Thanks for your help!

[Miss Kitty]

What a pickle! josebby, I am guessing this is addition to your already LOW HOA dues, correct? Have you heard anything from other owners?

[thekid]

We are going to pass on joining, but I should be quick to add that we don't have a condo or intend to rent our place. Cost is a bit steep. It is a very nice setting tho with a great view for sunset. It will be interesting to see how the membership grows until building really gets going to the west & north. We like it where we are now & would have to drive over to where the new club is .

[josebby]

Yes, the $675/Q would be in addition to our already hefty assessment. Hoping the additional rental fees would make up for the Beach Club dues.

I've only talked to one other owner so far and he says he's not buying. The Beach Club rep told me 7 memberships had been sold as of last week.

We want to make the right decision on this as it may affect resale and rentals.

Would you join?

[Spencer]

I would just put yourself in the shoes of a renter or future buyer. If I was renting, and had many places to choose from, I'd pick the one with the beach club. As a buyer, I don't see the membership making too much of a difference in what they will pay today. $20,000 seems like a small number when compared to asking prices in watersound. Hopefully you will understand that last part, it made sense to me.

[TooFarTampa]

Yes, the $675/Q would be in addition to our already hefty assessment. Hoping the additional rental fees would make up for the Beach Club dues.

I've only talked to one other owner so far and he says he's not buying. The Beach Club rep told me 7 memberships had been sold as of last week.

We want to make the right decision on this as it may affect resale and rentals.

Would you join?

I think WaterSound is one of the most beautiful spots on earth, and your condo is to die for but this sounds like extortion to me. It sounds like WS is playing on your fears (let's do what we can to get renters!) to arm twist you into buying into its "one-time offer." It kind of sounds like a fundraiser for some other project, or maybe it's just a way to pad its advertising budget since now St. Joe is buying ads again in hopes of fighting the market slowdown.

Will you be able to go to any WS pool, restaurant, or bar if you are not a member? If you can't, that's just outrageous. Is it tied into the Camp Creek Golf Club also, or do you already have privileges there? What will it get you that you can't get already?

[Miss Kitty]

Good points all. I agree that if one was renting in WS, they would go with the rental that comes with the membership. josebby...would you be able to adjust your price accordingly? Just doesn't sound like community building to me.

[josebby]

All the other amenities are included in our monthly assessment already. The membership would just be for the Beach Club. Joe owns it and the strip of land leading to the beach, within WaterSound Beach. Camp Creek Golf Club is not included.
I think your views on the actions of Joe are well taken!

[30ARules]

I can give you a renters perspective. We were there begining of April. After dinner one evening we walked over to the pool at the beach club, Kids loved it. The turtles and the fountain water was a big hit, and I liked that it was only a foot or 2 deep all the way around. Great for the young ones. We were told by our rental company that this pool was not available to us so we did not get a chance to use it. If we rent there again I would make certain we had access to this pool.

[SHELLY]

Hey all...need your thoughts on the new WaterSound Beach Club.
The club is open to all WaterSound homeowners and guests to use until June 23rd. Homeowners have until June 30th to join.

$20,000 membership fee , 85% refundable
$675/Quarter dues

According to St. Joe, we have this ONE TIME opportunity to join or our HOMESITE will never be able to join again.

Let's see:

St JOE is the landlord
St JOE is offering a "one time only opportunity"
St JOE wants 20-G's per
St JOE is giving homeowers till 30 Jun to respond
St JOE's revenue has been going down the past quarters
St JOE's stock price has gone over the cliff
St JOE's Quarterly financials close out on 30 Jun

Coincidence?

[josebby]

I totally agree with you! Not at all happy with St. Joe. But, in your opinion, should we set aside our feelings and buy into it for future resale and to maximize rentals until that time?

[SHELLY]

I totally agree with you! Not at all happy with St. Joe. But, in your opinion, should we set aside our feelings and buy into it for future resale and to maximize rentals until that time?

(1) You wrote: "Our thinking: we already have beach access, three pools and great view from our porch for cocktails. "

(2) Are you planning on rolling the cost of the club into your rental fee? Not having this additional cost may work in your favor to lure in renters.

(3) "St. Joe takes care of all shortfalls/hurricane costs." Can you be absolutely sure they'll do this within the timeframe and to the standards you would expect. I'll bet there's an "arbitration clause" for any disputes (just make sure the arbitration committee doesn't meet in Salt Lake City, UT).

(4) IMO, JOE's cash flows are going into a ditch--I seriously doubt that this is the last "deal" they'll come up with.

(5) It appears you're really taken by this club--are you looking for someone to talk you out of it, or into it?

[Santiago]

I wouldn't do it. The other pool is fine and whoever said that there will be other opportunities is probably right. Their extortionist tactics are pathetic and if the past is any indication, they will change their position many times. I would bet the farm that if you didn't join but listed your condo with St. Joe and it sold, the new owner would gladly get a membership. In fact, I wish I had one just so I could test my theory.

[TooFarTampa]

I wouldn't do it. The other pool is fine and whoever said that there will be other opportunities is probably right. Their extortionist tactics are pathetic and if the past is any indication, they will change their position many times. I would bet the farm that if you didn't join but listed your condo with St. Joe and it sold, the new owner would gladly get a membership. In fact, I wish I had one just so I could test my theory.

I think Santiago is right. The buy-now-or-lose-it-forever sales pitch is appalling. It's no better than those fitness center (or whatever) sales pitches. In fact it's worse, because we're talking about 20 grand. If they really thought their product (the club membership) was worth that much, they wouldn't put a hard deadline on it. They are just trying to raise funds and they are trying to extort them from established owners who presumably bought early and have a significant amount of equity.

Ideally, the vast majority of WaterSound owners will decide to decline. They can't very well run a private beach club with, say, only 20 members will they? They will be forced to change their approach.

I think SHELLY is absolutely right about the reason behind the June 30 deadline.

[Buckhead Rick]

Is this offer similar to the one JOE is making for membership to Camp Creek golf club which I understand is not drawing rave comments from owners.

[josebby]

Hmmmmm. I know nothing about the Golf memberships. I'll check into it!

Thanks, all, for your thoughtful comments. SHELLY, we really haven't wanted to join, for the reasons you all brought forward. That's why I opened it up to the board for comments: to confirm we wouldn't be making a huge mistake to take a pass.

I agree with Spencer that $20,000, while still a boatload of money and not easy to come up with right now, isn't much when compared with the total investment. I believe we can make up some of the money (maybe just the quarterly dues) over time with extra increases in rent each year, as we intend to keep it for the long haul.

I agree with 30-A Rules and Miss Kitty that many will pass us by if we don't have the membership. We rent to adults, so they may not miss the pool so much, but when they see people at the bar, they will want in and may not chose us the next time down. I don't think charging a couple hundred less for a week than those with a membership will bring us more business, which I'm trying to build.

I agree with SHELLY that if there is wind damage it will be an ugly scene, all the while we are required to pay dues. We already have our tails in the air with a beach front investment. Scares me to add more!

I agree with TooFarTampa and Santiago: a club with few members is not feasible and downright spooky. Will wait staff want to hang around for 1 or 2 tables, at most, even if well paid? I agree that Joe changes course on a whim and can open/change memberships again, which is allowed in the rules and regs, which may also be changed. And if we sell thru Joe, buyers may very well get a membership.

One thought is to join now, see what happens, then sell, if desired, when WaterSound North comes on board (if it does) and new owners are buying. Oh yeah, can't get our money back until FOUR memberships are sold.

Miss Kitty, it is a pickle. One day I think we should join, the next two, not.
If we hope to offer the best beach experience, we should say yes. But Joe has made me furious and we personally are not 'club people'.

I've always tried to keep doors open and this one is closing fast! If not for the deadline, we would wait and see. Joe knows that.

[onelli2000]

We intend to join for all the opposite reasons you are speaking of. It is $20,000 up front but 85% refund makes it only $3,000. As for $675 a quarter that is a steal. We paid over $450 a month at our last beach club.

(1) You wrote: "Our thinking: we already have beach access, three pools and great view from our porch for cocktails. "

We too have that access but not that view from the bar. Also want someone else to make my cocktails. I work hard and only get down 6 or 7 times a year. Also heard that dinner will be served on Fri and Sat too!!

(2) Are you planning on rolling the cost of the club into your rental fee? Not having this additional cost may work in your favor to lure in renters.

We do not rent so far but are looking into it. With the beach club membership we can get top $ for our home.

(3) "St. Joe takes care of all shortfalls/hurricane costs." Can you be absolutely sure they'll do this within the timeframe and to the standards you would expect. I'll bet there's an "arbitration clause" for any disputes (just make sure the arbitration committee doesn't meet in Salt Lake City, UT).

This is a little shaky but since our $20,000 is refundable all that is at risk is $3,000.

(4) IMO, JOE's cash flows are going into a ditch--I seriously doubt that this is the last "deal" they'll come up with.

What business are you in? St. Joe has a market cap close to $4 billion. They would need to sell 20,000 memberships at $20,000 to even make a dent in their quarterly earnings report! Stock is at a great value now

(5) It appears you're really taken by this club--are you looking for someone to talk you out of it, or into it?[/QUOTE]

[SHELLY]

[color=red]
(4) IMO, JOE's cash flows are going into a ditch--I seriously doubt that this is the last "deal" they'll come up with.

What business are you in? St. Joe has a market cap close to $4 billion. They would need to sell 20,000 memberships at $20,000 to even make a dent in their quarterly earnings report! Stock is at a great value now

[/QUOTE]

The wheels are falling off JOE's wagon as we speak; their glory days have passed and they are in a mad scramble to find any type of revenue at all to justify the executives' outrageous compensation packages and keep the dividends from falling back.

I know Rummell came from Disney, but during the last quarter Conference Call he sounded more like a cross between (Warner Bros') Porky Pig and Foghorn Leghorn--quite humorous if you're not a shareholder. You still may be able to find the audio from that CC somewhere on line (suggest Googling the words: "Most pathetic corporate conference call ever")

If you think the stock is a great value now...it will get even "greater" as the year goes on. The "shorts" are as happy as pigs in mud right now.

[josebby]

Onelli20001!! And thank you for explaining your reasoning for joining the Beach Club. Do you know how many others have joined so far?

[Pirate]

[QUOTE=onelli2000]

St. Joe has a market cap close to $4 billion. They would need to sell 20,000 memberships at $20,000 to even make a dent in their quarterly earnings report! Stock is at a great value now

What business is she in? Market cap isn't tied to earnings in any way on this stock. The market cap is now 3.5b and falling. 60+ times actual (previous, not forward looking guesses) earnings is a bad investment. No way this company makes earnings next quarter. JOE has land holdings but they aren't worth anywhere close to 3.5 billion and the most valuable property is a fraction of the total. Wonder why they dropped earnings forecast by 30%? MARKETWATCH Shorts are up 40 percent on this stock in 30 days for a reason.

On the beach club I wonder if you might see a "non refundable" membership in the fall (if membership sales don't pick) up for a fraction of the cost of the current offering. Just a thought.

[dbuck]

What if they go bankrupt? Will you get your money back? I don't think so. I didn't think WorldCom would go belly-up either.

[iqueequeg]

Joe's net income last quarter was about 76 million. 200 memberships at $20,000 each would be 4 million, a 5% increase (not huge, but a significant help).

I spoke with someone at Joe who said he thought this was the "initial offer." I'm definitely passing on this membership, I think it will be available in the future with similar or possibly even better terms. Until Watersound North is built (and inhabited) it's going to be deserted, I can't see how they're going to run a restaurant 90% empty for seven years (given the inventory on 30a, that's my guess how long it is before Watersound North is up and running).

If I recall, there was a limited time offer on Camp Creek Golf course as well when that first opened. As far as I know, memberships are still available today. I also thought there were plans for a second golf course, I don't know what happened with that.

St. Joe is not behaving too well since its earnings took a dive.

[elliedog]

Is the Camp Creek package out? I am a homeowner and was told last week that it wouldn't be announced until later in June.

[Buckhead Rick]

I would love to read the disclaimers on the 85% refundable clause, I had one on a golf course in Atlanta and I got my money back in just over 6 years. Lets see- 0% return on $16,100 for 6 years is ..... 0

[suncancer]

Watersound North's only access to the beach, besides public access, will be through the beach club. They hope to sell 1400 homes. I've been told at the realestate office of Watersound North that their cost to join would be less for the homeowner, supplemented by St Joe I think. Doesn't seem fair to those that bought at Watersound Beach. How many families will be allowed? The pool only holds 154 legally. If you don't have kids, it doesn't seem too pleasant trying to relax poolside with 100 plus kids screaming and running around. The bar also is full of young kids drinking cherry cokes and screaming off the balcony to their friends and parents below. Is there a possibilty of joining for restaurant/bar only? Or tennis only? And what do you think of making the bar an adult only space?

[thekid]

In my opinion the new Beachclub will not make it as it is presently set up. We were just down there & used our free membership. Unescorted kids running around was a big problem, I guess while the parents were poolside not paying attention at all. I also have a big problem with the buildout decision and what it will mean to building. I feel construction of any new houses will cease. The market is so bad now & with so many properties offered why do anything? I think they have shot themselves in the foot with bad decision making here. Anyway, the way this company changes the rules in midstream makes me believe they will do something similiar with the Beachclub. So do you really want to give these guys $20000 & then watch them flip-flop on no telling what?I think rental units may join as an extra for thier property but beyond that I don't see why anyone would take that chance with JOE being the way they are. The sales of the existing properties will continue to be very, very slow without a doubt.

[Beachbummett]

Hi Josebby!
We are joining the beach club just because we like it. We are under construction now Lot #42 on Founder's Lane. We are joining for the pool and amenities.
The restaurant is now open on Friday and Saturday night until September. If they have a great response will be open longer. I got a call today that they are offering free dinner this weekend to try out the new chef!
We decided to because I do think if we ever decide to rent out it will rent better with the club. Also if we sells we think it will sell better.
The Camp Creek golf club membership will include the pool/beach house until their's is complete.
Hope to see you there!
Suzanne

[onelli2000]

We are going to join too! Can't wait until our family can all come down and enjoy spending time together. We will begin building soon

[CampCreekLou]

Seems to me that this is all indicative of the problems with the St. Joe properties.

With a place near Seaside, I can walk over, get a drink, watch the sunset, have dinner, and enjoy the beach.

With a place near Rosemary Beach, I can do the same.

With a place near Watersound, I can't use the restaurant, can't use the bar, and have to sneak by the glass-enclosed security guard and gate to get to the beach. I may even get kicked out for riding my bike through.

Someone should let St. Joe know that there is a nice property, Chateau de Paris, with a nice wall concrete around it available for sale.

[onelli2000]

You are right. But for those of use that somehow find the night to go to bud & alleys when all bar stools are full we are looking foward to going to a place we can call our own. As far as sneeking by the glass to go to the gate, I am not sure where you live but I don't have that problem. The more of us that decide to join the club the better position we will be in to dictate what the club will be for us

[CampCreekLou]

The reason Bud & Alley's is crowded is because it's the only place on the beach to watch the sunset and get served a drink. It's too bad, with Seaside leading the way, more developments didn't follow their example.

My point is that it is too bad that St. Joe is locking out the surrounding community, rather than inviting it in. They are doing it with their Beach Club, and now have done it with their Golf Club. It seems to go against the grain of what was 30-A.

[Beachlover2]

CCL

I so agree with you. I don't even like having gated communities - but can understand the parking problems near the beach and the reason behind them. We need more places to watch the sunset on the beach open to all. Isn't it fun to talk to someone new at these places - not just your neighbors.

Thank you for you imput.

[aquaticbiology]

oh boy, been there done that - reminds me a lot of the 'lake club' up here - we got hit up to join their little party once we moved here

eventually it became so truly exclusive that there were only 3 old drunk farts in there and that's about it, and absolutely nobody there during the off season - they simply closed the doors to keep out the off season riff-raff!

the old farts ruled the place and if you didn't cow-tow to the head old fart you were given no service and slowly pushed out after a good 'talking to'

finally the doors were shut since they couldn't afford any staff on the 'pittance' they were getting from the dues, which went up 15 times as the buy-in money went bye-bye for construction cost over-runs, insurance increases, maintenance problems and burglary losses

and nobody got their refund back as they went bankrupt first

scary similarity!

[SHELLY]

finally the doors were shut since they couldn't afford any staff on the 'pittance' they were getting from the dues,

This is the 800-pound gorilla sitting at the barstool in the corner of this beach club.

[onelli2000]

Wow


You all have some pretty harsh words for the beach club. We have been using every weekend and have not seen that 800 lb old fart yet. The manager told us the other day that dinner is now being served on Fri and Sat. We went on Sat and it was fabulos. Hope you all change your minds like I did. We are going to join before 4th of July so we can use going forward.

See you there

[Miss Kitty]

I am an owner at WC and was "offered" a membership at the Camp Creek Golf Club for I think $30,000 and dues of $475, which included a membership at the WS Beach Club. Sounds like a deal to me after reading what they are charging WS owners.

[SGB]

I am an owner at WC and was "offered" a membership at the Camp Creek Golf Club for I think $30,000 and dues of $475, which included a membership at the WS Beach Club. Sounds like a deal to me after reading what they are charging WS owners.

The fine print says that you have use of the WS Beach Club only while the golf course club house is being built. Once it's built, you can no longer use the WS Beach Club.

[Miss Kitty]

The fine print says that you have use of the WS Beach Club only while the golf course club house is being built. Once it's built, you can no longer use the WS Beach Club.

Thanks....that's why I married a lawyer!!!!

[kathydwells]

I just have to butt in here and say this. I know I will get slammed for it, but think before you slam me...it is after all my humble opinion. Now, this is coming from someone who, unless a miracle happens one day, will never be able to afford to live on 30-A, so money is an issue for me. Perhaps it is not for some of you that are lucky enough to live/have a place on 30-A. There was a comment made that said "there is no where else to watch the sunset and be served a drink, except B & A's". Well, for me there is. It is sitting on the beach with my toe's in the sand sipping on a drink that I made, or a beer that I bought, and by the way, you can buy a six pack for about what they charge you for one, and a whole bottle of your drink of choice for what they charge you for one or two at some of the establishments on 30-A. So, I would much rather make my own drink or bring my own beer to the beach and watch the sunset. Now, having said that, I do enjoy going to B&A's for our "Girls day out" when I am at the beach, but I would much rather be "on" the beach at sunset! Ok, I am done.

[Miss Kitty]

Good job Darlene!

[Cheering472]

No slamming from me. I love being ON the beach for sunset.

[SHELLY]

I just have to butt in here and say this. I know I will get slammed for it, but think before you slam me...it is after all my humble opinion.

Take it from a regular "slammee" ...it's no big deal (Enjoy the view)

[Chickpea]

I just have to butt in here and say this. I know I will get slammed for it, but think before you slam me...it is after all my humble opinion. Now, this is coming from someone who, unless a miracle happens one day, will never be able to afford to live on 30-A, so money is an issue for me. Perhaps it is not for some of you that are lucky enough to live/have a place on 30-A. There was a comment made that said "there is no where else to watch the sunset and be served a drink, except B & A's". Well, for me there is. It is sitting on the beach with my toe's in the sand sipping on a drink that I made, or a beer that I bought, and by the way, you can buy a six pack for about what they charge you for one, and a whole bottle of your drink of choice for what they charge you for one or two at some of the establishments on 30-A. So, I would much rather make my own drink or bring my own beer to the beach and watch the sunset. Now, having said that, I do enjoy going to B&A's for our "Girls day out" when I am at the beach, but I would much rather be "on" the beach at sunset! Ok, I am done.

Hurray for you and I totally agree with you - so many forget that these amazing beaches are public and accessible and you can enjoy views whenever you want....picnics are under rated anyways - they can be a marvelous way to watch sunsets or the sun rise.

[Pirate]

The reason Bud & Alley's is crowded is because it's the only place on the beach to watch the sunset and get served a drink. It's too bad, with Seaside leading the way, more developments didn't follow their example.

I have posted this before but got no reply. I understand Bud and Alleys will close at the end of the year along with my favorite place for a drink the Tarpon Club. Has anyone heard the same?

[SHELLY]

Hey all...need your thoughts on the new WaterSound Beach Club.

$20,000 membership fee $675/Quarter dues

Thanks for your help!

On second thought....this just may be a bargain club...check this out:
---------------------------------------------
BOCA RATON, Fla. - A hundred bucks might buy you more than six dozen burgers from McDonald's, but the swanky Old Homestead Steakhouse will sell you one brawny beef sandwich for the same price. Boca Raton Mayor Steven Abrams could barely speak between bites as he devoured the 20-ounce, $100 hamburger billed as the "beluga caviar of sandwiches."

The burger debuted Tuesday at the restaurant in the Boca Raton Resort and Club, where a membership costs $40,000 and an additional $3,600 a year.

"We've never had a hamburger on our menu here so we really wanted to go to the extreme," Sherry said, calling it "the most decadent burger in the world."

At about 5 1/2 inches across and 2 1/2 inches thick, the mound of meat is comprised of beef from three continents — American prime beef, Japanese Kobe and Argentine cattle.

The bill for one burger, with garnishing that includes organic greens, exotic mushrooms and tomatoes, comes out to $124.50 with tax and an 18 percent tip included.
------------------------------------------------------

[Paula]

Darlene:

Yes, the beautiful beach is still free and you can still find yourself alone on a quiet beach at sunset on 30A through many months of the year (e.g., fall - winter and even some of May at our little area of 30A and I think at many other areas as well). Pretty amazing.

And you'll be happy to know that I've taught our children to never pay $2.00 for a take-out cup or can of soda pop (e.g., on trips) when you can by a case of soda pop for $3.00!

[TooFarTampa]

The burger debuted Tuesday at the restaurant in the Boca Raton Resort and Club, where a membership costs $40,000 and an additional $3,600 a year.

Now I understand why, when asked about the cost, the club president actually said "anybody can afford $100." Doesn't sound like he lives in the real world.

[TooFarTampa]

KDW: I'm with you, I actually have never thought about the dearth of places to get a drink and watch the sunset until it was brought up here. Nobody is stopping us from bringing our own beverages. We like to park in our Seagrove lot because the walkover is close and the beach is nice and wide ... great sunsets. The kids roll around in the sand and then we go home after looking for the green flash. Sometimes I envy the couples who casually bring down a whole bottle of wine and a towel and share it quietly, but our way is great too. I'd rather do that than sit at a table or a bar.

[kurt]

I have posted this before but got no reply. I understand Bud and Alleys will close at the end of the year along with my favorite place for a drink the Tarpon Club. Has anyone heard the same?

Not true, coming from the man himself.
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=44539&postcount=33"]http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=44539&postcount=33[/ame]

[Indigo Jill]

ORIGINAL QUOTE FROM SHELLY:
On second thought....this just may be a bargain club...check this out:
---------------------------------------------
BOCA RATON, Fla. - A hundred bucks might buy you more than six dozen burgers from McDonald's, but the swanky Old Homestead Steakhouse will sell you one brawny beef sandwich for the same price. Boca Raton Mayor Steven Abrams could barely speak between bites as he devoured the 20-ounce, $100 hamburger billed as the "beluga caviar of sandwiches."

The burger debuted Tuesday at the restaurant in the Boca Raton Resort and Club, where a membership costs $40,000 and an additional $3,600 a year.

Great point, Shelly, and I'm glad someone here besides me brought it up first as I was thinking of it all along! "Exclusive" clubs around the country cost major money - that is why people join them! And it's no secret St. Joe caters to those that want the privacy and priviledges associated with exclusivity. It's the Country Club mentality (at least up north, where I'm from, that is how it is). My brother just became a member of the club my father has been at forever and the initial fee to join was $35k with a $600 a month fee. There are a few included perks included but all tee fees are extra, etc. etc. And there is definitely no gorgeous gulf or ocean! Just a pool overlooking the perfectly manicured greens. It's just how much it costs and there are thousands of them around the US.

I actually have been quite surprised by the response of so many over the cost of initiation into the WaterSound Beach Club for this reason - $20K for that view is a DEAL. I mean - we are talking MULTI-million dollar homes and million dollar homesites - and that view!

Just my $.02 cents