Walton commissioners approve radio system

**idlewind** · 03-28-2011, 10:59 PM

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/cou...dio-slers.html

Looks like Walton's Sheriff could have talked to Okaloosa's Sheriff and found out why this is a waste of taxpayer dollars. Spending millions on something that people say does not work sounds dumb.

**Alicia Leonard** · 03-29-2011, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by idlewind

Walton County approves SLERS radio system | county, radio, slers - Northwest Florida Daily News

Looks like Walton's Sheriff could have talked to Okaloosa's Sheriff and found out why this is a waste of taxpayer dollars. Spending millions on something that people say does not work sounds dumb.

If I remember correctly, he's been wanting this since he was City Marshall. I'll have to go back and look through the archives.

**Andy A** · 03-29-2011, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Alicia Leonard

If I remember correctly, he's been wanting this since he was City Marshall. I'll have to go back and look through the archives.

If I read him correctly at his town hall meetings, what he wanted was exactly what is needed. I am not sure that SLERS is it. What is needed is a communications system that allows all emergency responders to talk to each other without undue hassle and hesitation. It is not as easy as it sounds and there are many reasons this is true, not the least of which is the promotion of such systems by various communication companies that is often not entirely truthful. That such a system is needed is a given. If Sheriff Atkinson has been after it, it is certainly not for personal reasons. It is to assure the immediate response by all necessary agencies when disaster strikes our area.

**Alicia Leonard** · 03-29-2011, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Andy A

If I read him correctly at his town hall meetings, what he wanted was exactly what is needed. I am not sure that SLERS is it. What is needed is a communications system that allows all emergency responders to talk to each other without undue hassle and hesitation. It is not as easy as it sounds and there are many reasons this is true, not the least of which is the promotion of such systems by various communication companies that is often not entirely truthful. That such a system is needed is a given. If Sheriff Atkinson has been after it, it is certainly not for personal reasons. It is to assure the immediate response by all necessary agencies when disaster strikes our area.

I covered the city hall meetings, Andy, and no where did I say it was for person reasons. Why in the world would he want it for personal reasons or would you even say that I was referring to anything of the sort? He has wanted a state wide system in place since he was City Marshall. Other Sheriff's disagree that it will work as well as he thinks it will. Period.

**Andy A** · 03-29-2011, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Alicia Leonard

I covered the city hall meetings, Andy, and no where did I say it was for person reasons. Why in the world would he want it for personal reasons or would you even say that I was referring to anything of the sort? He has wanted a state wide system in place since he was City Marshall. Other Sheriff's disagree that it will work as well as he thinks it will. Period.

You misinterpret what I meant. I was not referring to your post at all in that regard. I'm sorry if I mislead. I worked putting together EMS systems for l0 years. Such a communications system is the desire of anyone who has been in the creation of an EMS or disaster control system. Regardless of who controls the communication system it is a hard thing to accomplish immediate complete co-ordination among agencies.

**Alicia Leonard** · 03-29-2011, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Andy A

You misinterpret what I meant. I was not referring to your post at all in that regard. I'm sorry if I mislead. I worked putting together EMS systems for l0 years. Such a communications system is the desire of anyone who has been in the creation of an EMS or disaster control system. Regardless of who controls the communication system it is a hard thing to accomplish immediate complete co-ordination among agencies.

Thank you. I am already very hesitant to speak on anything local due to it being misconstrued and my job.

**Andy A** · 03-29-2011, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Alicia Leonard

Thank you. I am already very hesitant to speak on anything local due to it being misconstrued and my job.

I certainly understand and you post was quite appropriate and useful.

**idlewind** · 03-29-2011, 11:11 PM

I think an explanation of why the reasons the Okaloosa Sheriff rejected it as being too expensive and unreliable for his county do not apply to Walton County, which is even bigger and more rural. I also want to know why the fire chief says it does not work in buildings? If this is true then it will not be of much use to a fireman calling for help in a burning building. And who is going to foot the bill for all the uber-expensive radios that the various agencies will need?
Seems like the commissioners are spending alot of money without enough vetting of the project.

**Alicia Leonard** · 03-30-2011, 06:44 AM

Another issue I gleaned from this being discussed years ago(if it's the same system he previously wanted) is the bad guys are able to use scanners and listen to LEO's discuss them and other various operations. The new radios would do away with that and the LEO's conversations would be private, which I don't think is a bad idea.

**miznotebook** · 03-30-2011, 09:56 AM

It is supposed to be a "bridged" system with both SLERS and VHF to be used to keep the capability for talking in buildings. Some state funding for the SLERS has been secured, and negotiations on price still have to take place.
WZEP had a good write-up on the issue. Radios are naturally one of their areas of expertise:

"WZEP News Segment 0

WC BCC Talks Radios Part 1

The Walton Commissioners have the final say in what radios to use, but those using them seem to all have an opinion. At the Tuesday morning meeting, Walton Sheriff Mike Adkinson addressed the commissioners, explaining that in 2006 they had selected to use the State Law Enforcement Radio System or SLERS. Adkinson said his predecessor did not move forward with the system, but with a federal mandate to make changes and after a review of available systems, his office feels the SLERS system was the right choice.

Captain Joe Preston said there is an unfunded mandate from the FCC to narrow band all radio systems. He also commended the board on their choice. Narrow banding compresses the radio frequency, giving more room. Currently Walton services use UHF, VHF and SLERS.

Preston said they believe the SLERS system is the right choice, but it needs to go from two to six functioning towers. The Sheriff�s Office has said the lack of towers creates many of the problems reported by users. Firefighters say they can not get communication signals out of buildings on SLERS. The system is currently in use in Walton and South Walton Fire District uses a combined SLERS/VHF system. All voices in the discussion agree the current systems are not adequate. Preston said men and women are being asked to go into fire and gunfire situations without adequate communication. He said they need to have a communication system that works.

The build out will take about $6.8 million, including towers and radios. Walton is working with the Harris Company, a sole supplier. The state has offered $500,000 to assist. Preston said Bay County went with an 800mHz Motorola system, is still paying for the bonds, and are now talking with Harris about SLERS. Escambia has 19 existing towers and Preston said it will cost $12.5 million for them to continue to use them. Preston said UHF and VHF technology is very old and many are moving to digital technology. He said this will provide for the safety of the citizens. The state is also taking over the build out of the Mossy Head tower.

Preston told commissioners they will have to be creative in coming up with funds, including grants. There are also companies that will build out a tower in exchange for the use for other antennas. There are less than 600 days before the narrow banding deadline. Preston asked to move forward and return with a final price.
WZEP News Segment 1

WC BCC Talks Radios Part 2

Talking radios in Walton, Commissioner Sara Comander said she might have made the past motion to go with SLERS, but she has since looked into the situation. She said she does not have a problem with the deputies using the SLERS system. Comander said the fire departments do not want to use it and said there is a way to allow the fire departments to use another system and bridge the two. Walton Sheriff�s Office Captain Joe Preston agreed and explained there is a way to bridge the two systems. He said they have support of the Fire Council to move forward with the bridged system.

Commander said they do not have the funds for the $6.8 million or even a lower cost. Commander asked Sheriff Adkinson about the cost of the first phase. Preston said they need three more towers, Gaskin, Freeport and near Peach Creek. The state will help with the Mossy Head tower and the Darlington tower. This could be as little as $1.5 million. Comander said they will be down $3 M to $4 M in the budget. Sheriff Adkinson said he does not know of a higher priority than the safety of the citizens. He said they are already about $2 M into the system. Adkinson said he is concerned with cost, but his number one concern is, �Does it work?�

Preston asked commissioners, �If we faced a manmade or natural disaster, then wouldn�t be great if all agencies could communicate with each other?� Commander said another concern is the cost, about $5,000 for each radio. This cost has been a concern for some of the fire departments. The volunteer departments usually provide each member with a radio, about $500 each. The high cost would mean a change. The sheriff�s office has asked if all volunteers need their own radios, or just a communication device such as a pager to call them to the station.

South Walton Fire Chief Rick Talbert said the sheriff has been working with the fire agencies in the county. He said there are four topics:
� Input involvement � It was poorly implemented with a lack of involvement with the fire departments.
� The Availability of Radios � Committed with departments to make sure they have them.
� The Cost � To have the radios and make sure they work.
� Upkeep and Maintenance � The long term and making sure they can sustain them later.
Talbert said they have had a lot of discussion and at times it was intense. He said they did listen.

Roger Roy, a local volunteer, said he is concerned with having only a sole source. He said they should look at the needs before they come up with a solution. Roy said the SLERS does not work inside structures and the VHF they currently use does. He asked why they don�t build a system that does it all. Roy suggested an independent assessment for the fire, EMS and law enforcement radio needs. James Hagan, a resident, said he also has concerns with a sole source. He said competition drives the price down.

Walton Fire Chief Bryan Coley said, if they go with the two tiered system, then they will not be sole source. He also said they can use the VHF in structures and the SLERS system as well.

Commissioner Scott Brannon asked if the problems with buildings is due to not having enough towers. Coley said it could be, but also listed other potential problems. He said the current system is pitiful. Sheriff Adkinson said the research has been done by the county and then again by the sheriff�s office. Adkinson said, because of testing and time spent, Walton has become a model for the state. Preston said they do have the ability to tie the two together. He also said, as the systems become P25 compliant, then it will open to others for competition.

Bryan Whaley, with Motorola, said the comparisons in 2006 were from list price. He said the fairest way is to do competitive bid for everyone who needs radios to get a best and final price. He also said using a consultant would be wise. Commissioner Larry Jones noted in 2006 they did not get the best and final price.

Jones said this is an important issue and they are moving through a process. The motion to seek costs was approved. Commissioners also approved moving forward with negotiations. "

(Tried unsuccessfully to reduce the type size on the last part. Would have just done a link, but I think this would have been removed from the Web site tomorrow and the link would probably have stopped working)

**enfuego** · 03-30-2011, 10:06 AM

Thank you for adding the additional account of what happened at the most recent BCC meeting. Basing any conclusion on what OK County does or doesnt do and the two poorly written storys that appeared in the paper previously were not going to present anything fair and balanced.

**Alicia Leonard** · 03-30-2011, 10:48 AM

Thanks, Dotty. I remember talk of the bridge system during the last sheriff's race when cost of the systems were discussed.

**Morning Glory** · 03-30-2011, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by idlewind

Walton County approves SLERS radio system | county, radio, slers - Northwest Florida Daily News

Looks like Walton's Sheriff could have talked to Okaloosa's Sheriff and found out why this is a waste of taxpayer dollars. Spending millions on something that people say does not work sounds dumb.

What Mikie wants, Mikie gets. Which Commissioner's brother was chosen to build the new sheriff's substation at Paxton? Did the project go through the approval process? Bet ya! Preble Rish engineered it!

**TheZohan** · 03-30-2011, 10:36 PM

Preble Rish does all the engineering for the county

**idlewind** · 03-30-2011, 10:57 PM

5,000 per radio as opposed to 500 a radio? WTH? Just guessing that the county will need 300 radios for police, fire and ambulance. That is an initial cost of 1,500,000 for the one and 150,000 for the other. If you have a 10% replacement need per year due to age, maintenance and accidents, that cost would be 150,000 for one and 15,000 for the other. Sounds like a sinkhole for tax dollars to me. Doesn't anyone in county government have a calculator?

And I just love how they always pull out the "public safety" line whenever they are questioned about how much money they spend.

**SWGB** · 03-31-2011, 01:42 PM

Considering a smart burglar just needs to use a scanner right now I think it's money well spent.

**idlewind** · 03-31-2011, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by SWGB

Considering a smart burglar just needs to use a scanner right now I think it's money well spent.

If they keep spending money like drunk sailors there will be nothing left for the burglar to steal.

And since the fire department and the Okaloosa Sheriff say the system does not work, the burglar will get away while the police try and find some way to talk to each other.

**TheZohan** · 04-02-2011, 01:26 PM

The more money they spend. The more they are committed to excellence!

**idlewind** · 04-02-2011, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by TheZohan

The more money they spend. The more they are committed to excellence!

You can be committed to excellence without throwing the taxpayer's money down a sewer. The way I hear it they are committed to excellent toys and vehicles but not their people.

**TheZohan** · 04-02-2011, 11:40 PM

That is true! And thank you for observing the new toys and carefree spending. I wish there was more people like you

**Andy A** · 04-03-2011, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by TheZohan

That is true! And thank you for observing the new toys and carefree spending. I wish there was more people like you

Just out of curiousity, did you read any of the posts above? Communications during a disaster does not involve "new toys and carefree spending". It involves people's lives. While it is right to question the cost of a viable system and make sure it is functional for all concerned, it is also right to expect the best possible response to a natural or man made disaster. If you don't think so, witness the response, which was a disaster in itself, to Katrina in NOLA. Fiscal conservatives do not mind spending money where the need is relevant to the public as a whole.

**TheZohan** · 04-03-2011, 11:35 AM

If there is a natural disaster most people are not going to listen to the news or even care untill last minute just like katrina and then they want help. As far as the new toys and carefree spending I dont care because I can't stop it no how I just want more people seen the new toys and carefree spending

**Andy A** · 04-04-2011, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by TheZohan

If there is a natural disaster most people are not going to listen to the news or even care untill last minute just like katrina and then they want help. As far as the new toys and carefree spending I dont care because I can't stop it no how I just want more people seen the new toys and carefree spending

Your viewpoint regarding disaster response is very narrow, indeed.

**SWGB** · 04-04-2011, 12:07 PM

Anybody else remember scalding letters to the editor all across the country when LEO's dared to want cell phones and people thought the expense of those nonworking toys was unjustified.

**TheZohan** · 04-05-2011, 09:11 PM

What is wrong with having a cell phone. I think that it would make there job a little easier and cheaper

**TechPyle** · 04-05-2011, 09:32 PM

Having a cell phone is great but it is not a majic bullet and suffers from many disadvantages to a radio system. Most cell phones require the use of cell towers that in emergency situations such as hurricans will not be available. The cell phones limited range and may areas that have no coverage is also a problem. Cell phones also have a hard time working in some buildings. Some of the same problems that are incountered with the new radio system. Other problems with cell phones is that the communications can be flooded with calls and disable the system completly. Cell phones have thier use but for emergency communications they have many problems. Most emergency personell have both a cell phone and a radio.

**idlewind** · 04-05-2011, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by TechPyle

Having a cell phone is great but it is not a majic bullet and suffers from many disadvantages to a radio system. Most cell phones require the use of cell towers that in emergency situations such as hurricans will not be available. The cell phones limited range and may areas that have no coverage is also a problem. Cell phones also have a hard time working in some buildings. Some of the same problems that are incountered with the new radio system. Other problems with cell phones is that the communications can be flooded with calls and disable the system completly. Cell phones have thier use but for emergency communications they have many problems. Most emergency personell have both a cell phone and a radio.

If they don't work very well, then why are we paying for them? Another waste of money.

**SWGB** · 04-06-2011, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by TechPyle

Having a cell phone is great but it is not a majic bullet and suffers from many disadvantages to a radio system. Most cell phones require the use of cell towers that in emergency situations such as hurricans will not be available. The cell phones limited range and may areas that have no coverage is also a problem. Cell phones also have a hard time working in some buildings. Some of the same problems that are incountered with the new radio system. Other problems with cell phones is that the communications can be flooded with calls and disable the system completly. Cell phones have thier use but for emergency communications they have many problems. Most emergency personell have both a cell phone and a radio.

To an extent that is true. However Sprint/Nextel has many contracts with FEMA, Homeland Security, the military, FBI, etc. Those contracts were gained by the ability to give priority to law enforcement cell phones. I'm not sure about other companies as I've never worked for them. During situations like spring break phone calls made by LEO's and emergency personnel take precedence over consumer calls. In some instances "spots" on cell towers can be reserved for emergency personnel so they can always make phone calls. During an emergency (i.e. Katrina) Sprint/Nextel is contractually obligated to provide cell service and actually dropped portable satellite towers in New Orleans.

**TechPyle** · 04-06-2011, 05:59 AM

SWGB,
I agree that cell phones have thier place but how do sprint/nextel users for emergency response (Lets say Sheriff) talk to a group of Verizon users, and a group of ATT users to coordinate a response. Also how do the portable towers work withen say 5 hours of a hurricane passing when they are still sitting in a nice safe area waiting to be deployed while search and rescue has already begun. I agree that cell phones have thier use but they have limitations also.
That being said this does not address the issue of the current radio change over because some of the same problems exist with the new radio system. One of the major reasons to go to this system is so that one agency can commmunicate with another agency easily. According to the article South Walton Fire District has already adopted the system. The old radios are being phased out because of a federal law that requires the reduction in bandwidth so staying with what the Sheriff has is not an option.
This system may not be the best but what are the other options which will allow cross agency communication between state and local and meets the federal guidlines?

**idlewind** · 04-06-2011, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by TechPyle

SWGB,
I agree that cell phones have thier place but how do sprint/nextel users for emergency response (Lets say Sheriff) talk to a group of Verizon users, and a group of ATT users to coordinate a response. Also how do the portable towers work withen say 5 hours of a hurricane passing when they are still sitting in a nice safe area waiting to be deployed while search and rescue has already begun. I agree that cell phones have thier use but they have limitations also.
That being said this does not address the issue of the current radio change over because some of the same problems exist with the new radio system. One of the major reasons to go to this system is so that one agency can commmunicate with another agency easily. According to the article South Walton Fire District has already adopted the system. The old radios are being phased out because of a federal law that requires the reduction in bandwidth so staying with what the Sheriff has is not an option.
This system may not be the best but what are the other options which will allow cross agency communication between state and local and meets the federal guidlines?

Ask Larry Ashley, he is getting a system that works for rverybody and is cheaper.

**Andy A** · 04-06-2011, 09:37 AM

Yeah, excuse my sarcasm but the Sheriff of Okaloosa County is not a great source of information on disaster response, IMO. That county has had nothing but trouble with their county law enforcement. I feel sure that Sheriff Atkinson will research the whole situation, with input from all disaster responders, before any final decision is made. But then, I have more faith in him than you seem to have.

**idlewind** · 04-06-2011, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Andy A

Yeah, excuse my sarcasm but the Sheriff of Okaloosa County is not a great source of information on disaster response, IMO. That county has had nothing but trouble with their county law enforcement. I feel sure that Sheriff Atkinson will research the whole situation, with input from all disaster responders, before any final decision is made. But then, I have more faith in him than you seem to have.

Apparently he ignored the input from our other responders who say the system does not work and is dangerous and followed the path begun by that noted disaster, Ralph Johnson. Larry Ashley may be alot of things, but at least he had enough sense to get off a dead horse and find one that is more efficient and cost effective.

**SWGB** · 04-06-2011, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by idlewind

Apparently he ignored the input from our other responders who say the system does not work and is dangerous and followed the path begun by that noted disaster, Ralph Johnson. Larry Ashley may be alot of things, but at least he had enough sense to get off a dead horse and find one that is more efficient and cost effective.

Oh look we saved 20% of the money, but it hasn't worked in a single disaster situation yet.

**idlewind** · 04-06-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by SWGB

Oh look we saved 20% of the money, but it hasn't worked in a single disaster situation yet.

What we are buying apparently does not work and we are paying 20% more for it. And I don't think it has worked in a disaster either. If I am going to buy a non-working system, at least let me keep some money.

**SWGB** · 04-06-2011, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by idlewind

What we are buying apparently does not work and we are paying 20% more for it. And I don't think it has worked in a disaster either. If I am going to buy a non-working system, at least let me keep some money.

The last system I know of the out performed anything during a national emergency was the Nextel Direct Connect system. It was the only reliable communication system in New York city on 9/11.