Lowering the speed limit on 30A?

[robertsondavies]

Well... in my opinion... a bicycle on 30a is a low speed vehicle... they are constantly holding up traffic and do not go the speed limit therefore i consider them an lsv.... and yes i am very much in agreement with 99% of the people on here about lowering the speed limit... it's stupid but not as stupid as the repaving being done that 30a did not need.

Surfer Girl, you are absolutely correct in my view of your interpretation... cyclists on the road are ultra slow LSVs... who rarely pullover, as an LSV would, b/c those thin tires CANNOT go onto the soft shoulder.

We probably disagree as to what to do. I don't want to ban cyclists, and I want to give LSV's which are a lesser annoyance since they actually pull off and let traffic through, to legally have the run of 30A, instead of just the 85% of it that they currently have - legally, due to a couple tiny sections of 45MPH.

[Will B]

The cyclists aka "bicyclists", need to stay on the BIKE PATH. That is what what millions of dollars were spent for... people to ride their bicycles, whether you consider yourself a "professional" or not.

First...thank you for saying that you are always careful around the cyclists.

I know this has been hashed out numerous times here, but as a part time Spandex clad cyclist, I can tell you that the two main reasons that we stay on 30A are the hugely disparate speeds between road bikes and beach cruisers (hmmm...sounds familiar) and, more importantly, the path is far less safe for road bikes than dodging cars on 30A. The tires on road bikes are inflated to 125psi. With all the trash, rocks, broken shells, etc on the path a blown tire is a forgone conclusion. Plus, all of the planking on the path bridges is in horrible shape with big splinters and nail heads protruding from the wood. If I'm out for a leisurely ride with the wife, I'm on the path, but if I'm out to exercise where I'm riding above 20mph, I'm on the road.

Sorry to hijack the thread for a post...

[robertsondavies]

First...thank you for saying that you are always careful around the cyclists.

I know this has been hashed out numerous times here, but as a part time Spandex clad cyclist, I can tell you that the two main reasons that we stay on 30A are the hugely disparate speeds between road bikes and beach cruisers (hmmm...sounds familiar) and, more importantly, the path is far less safe for road bikes than dodging cars on 30A. The tires on road bikes are inflated to 125psi. With all the trash, rocks, broken shells, etc on the path a blown tire is a forgone conclusion. Plus, all of the planking on the path bridges is in horrible shape with big splinters and nail heads protruding from the wood. If I'm out for a leisurely ride with the wife, I'm on the path, but if I'm out to exercise where I'm riding above 20mph, I'm on the road.

Sorry to hijack the thread for a post...

Hey, don't apologize for joining the discussion, just because some want to take their ball and go home, and stifle a good discussion.

Your observations are good to share, and your insights are very reasonable. I'm pro cyclist, although many are obviously not. I think 30A is a resort area, and a resort highway... I like coming across a pack of cyclists and slowing down for a brief stretch... I like riding through Seaside and Seagrove at 10MPH due to pedestrians carrying ice cream cones - I deal with well and I think I'm in the majority of users of the area. I realize y'all CANNOT pull over because of the racing bike tire issue - big deal, it costs me 15 to 20 seconds usually. Cyclists, LSV's and Pedestrians are a part of the scene and the vision really of the area ... slow down when you come across them, or pedestrians in the numerous towns up and down 30A.
We ought not ban cyclists from 30A, anymore than we would outlaw children with dripping ice cream cones dawdling across 30A both inside designated crossings and not inside those designated crossings.

[Botes]

Ok, so i just wasted to much of life reading this thread. But to make myself feel better, I went and took a drive down 30-A, and pleasantly did not have to drive behind an LSV. I'll be straight up, it is a convenience thing.

[SWGB]

Just for the record, if any elected officials might be reading this, robertsondavies doesn't live here or own property. I'm betting he's not registered to vote either.

[Andy A]

Just for the record, if any elected officials might be reading this, robertsondavies doesn't live here or own property. I'm betting he's not registered to vote either.

Well, that seems to say a lot, doesn't it?

[scooterbug44]

Well, that seems to say a lot, doesn't it?

Certainly explains why he doesn't understand that one frequently HAS to use 30-A to get from point A to B.

I started making a list - my hairdresser, dentist, bank, post office, favorite bars, favorite restaurants, favorite shops, stockbroker, groceries (farmer's market, for the health of it, WC publix, chan's), garden store, coffee shop, golf courses, specialty stores, and majority of the events I attend and my friends are on 30-A.

I use 98 to go out of town, for seafood at Shrimper's, accountant once a year, the library, gov't business, the doctor (which used to be on 30-a), and to see friends in PW/north of 98.

[nr light]

Just for the record, if any elected officials might be reading this, robertsondavies doesn't live here or own property. I'm betting he's not registered to vote either.

So I guess that's all we've got now. Basically all Naysayers of LSVs have one argument. "Wa-wa-wa I don't want to be inconvenienced." And my only response to that is I'm Sorry.
I am sorry that these tourists are "Fueling" our economy is such a way that inconveniences you.
I'm sorry that our lovely emerald coast is so beautiful that people (homeowners included) want to enjoy it by taking a slower, safe drive down one of the most scenic highways on the panhandle.
I am sorry that the simple pleasures of another inconvenience you by less than a minute.
But I am truly sorry that we can't even have a DISCUSSION about it without attacking one another personally.

[Desso]

nr-light, you have to realize this crowd really doesn't like know-it-all visitors/tourist/part-timers who pop down once or a few times a year and expect the world to revolve around them. So much has changed for the locals, whatever their delusions, they have very little control over it. It leads to a great deal of pissing and moaning about the most trivial issues. It's like having rude, obnoxious guest for months on end and guess what they'll be back. It is a tourist economy, and unfortunately there are going to be many more things coming down the pike that people will not like. You think it's bad now wait t'ill the economy is really back, and "Paradise" gets more crowded, more traffic, more, more, more. The LSV debate will be trivial at that point.

[AndrewG]

So So True.

[scooterbug44]

"This crowd" is composed of a blend of natives, full time residents, 2nd home owners, and frequent or occasional visitors.

[SWGB]

Anybody else smell trial lawyers on this thread?

[robertsondavies]

Ok, so i just wasted to much of life reading this thread. But to make myself feel better, I went and took a drive down 30-A, and pleasantly did not have to drive behind an LSV. I'll be straight up, it is a convenience thing.

FINALLY, an honest answer I can respect for its honesty. I'll be straight up and tell you we can actually carve out an easy compromise to this, and you can keep your convenience.

Really all that matters in my mind, is the 2 stinking miles (or blissful if you're in a car) of 45MPH at Deer Lake, which bisects 95% of the real destinations in South Walton, like a knife, and makes 40% of it (Rosemary,Seacrest,Alys,Camp Creek, cut off, from the other 60%, Seagrove/Seaside/Watercolor/Grayton/BMB.

All we need are either 1) 2 mandatory pull offs along that stretch for cyclists or LSV's going 35MPH or less.. OR 2 ) a separated lane to the right on that stretch, which LSV's and cycylists must detour on, and put the bikepath, even further away from the 55MPH cars on that stretch.

Anyhow, a compromise is possible here, to preserve that convenience

[John R]

Finally? You've gotten honest answers already. It seems to me that if you get an answer you don't like, or agree with, then it must not be honest. That's sad. You would have more asphalt laid to support your green alternative? Interesting.

Happy Easter.

[Geo]

I echo John R's remarks. Rdavies and Nrlight,
I would venture to guess that 9 out of 10 people down here (whether full time residents, part timers or occasional visitors) believe that common sense dictates that you keep golf carts of highways and that it is ridonkulous to lower posted speed limits so that a couple people can take their golf carts to Stinkys or Red Bar.

You are entitled to your opinion and can squak all u want but what are u trying to accomplish by continuing?

[robertsondavies]

Finally? You've gotten honest answers already. It seems to me that if you get an answer you don't like, or agree with, then it must not be honest. That's sad. You would have more asphalt laid to support your green alternative? Interesting.

Happy Easter.

Don't have to be a smartazz, JOHN R. The poster him or herself labeled it "I'll be "HONEST" and level with you" ... not sure if you read that. It was nice to see someone honestly put to the board the REAL reason for most opposition -

If you go against SWGB and a few others on here, you will get ganged up on. Read the thread, just the facts.. I'm not in the 5 million posts club, hence I am told to move to Sandestin, end the thread, and I'm told I own an LSV dealership, etc etc. Weird **** coming from what you would guess are liberal minds.

Oh no you just can't disagree with SWGB - --- the horror...

[robertsondavies]

nr-light, you have to realize this crowd really doesn't like know-it-all visitors/tourist/part-timers who pop down once or a few times a year and expect the world to revolve around them. So much has changed for the locals, whatever their delusions, they have very little control over it. It leads to a great deal of pissing and moaning about the most trivial issues. It's like having rude, obnoxious guest for months on end and guess what they'll be back. It is a tourist economy, and unfortunately there are going to be many more things coming down the pike that people will not like. You think it's bad now wait t'ill the economy is really back, and "Paradise" gets more crowded, more traffic, more, more, more. The LSV debate will be trivial at that point.

Desso, you've hit the nail on the head in a lot of ways. Watch out.

[robertsondavies]

Just for the record, if any elected officials might be reading this, robertsondavies doesn't live here or own property. I'm betting he's not registered to vote either.

We're going to wager on things? Cool, I love to gamble.

If any elected officials might be reading this, SWGB probably lives here and may pay a few tax dollars, not sure about this so I won't bet on it.

I will wager you this however.. SWGB's odds of voting for you as a Republican are lower than your odds on winning Powerball, though the chance is there statistically. I'll wager that not only is SWGB a card carrying democrat, that further he is on the liberal end of the Democrat wagon. and here SWGB stands with the SUV on the one hand, and against drilling for oil on the other. There is a political wedge opportunity here for you to exploit. Get busy.

I'll also wager that SWGB is wrong about me. I do pay taxes here, property and sales and use, and I DO own property here.

[robertsondavies]

I echo John R's remarks. Rdavies and Nrlight,
I would venture to guess that 9 out of 10 people down here (whether full time residents, part timers or occasional visitors) believe that common sense dictates that you keep golf carts of highways and that it is ridonkulous to lower posted speed limits so that a couple people can take their golf carts to Stinkys or Red Bar.

You are entitled to your opinion and can squak all u want but what are u trying to accomplish by continuing?

Hey we who support LSV usage on 30A are supposed to be entitled to our opinions - isn't that an inalienable right thingy? I appreciate yours and many others concerns and opinions too. I also think there is a middle ground solution.

What do I hope to accomplish? SIMPLE - I hope to either lower the 2 mile stretch at Deer Lake to 35MPH and put a couple pull off areas on that stretch for cyclists and LSVs, or I'd like to leave it at 45MPH to preserve the convenience of it for those that need it, but install a 3rd path on that stretch for LSVs and slow cyclists to detour onto before reaching 35MPH areas on either side.

Common sense says that 40 some state legistlatures approved LSV statutes, encouraing their use on roadways of 35MPH or lower speed limits. Common sense and dollars and cents will show what insurance companies actuaries think of LSV's safety record. A common sense investigation will also reveal that after taking into account the pro's and con's nearly every environmental group is PRO - LSV, from the Sierra Club to you name it. I don't agree that 9 out of 10 agree with you that 30A must be the provence of the big carbon powered vehicles only, but it depends how you frame the question, and depends what group you survey. All I see are SUV's right now in South Walton, as far as the eye can see. To me, I think there are better alternatives, and encouraging LSVs is not the end goal, just one part of a bridge to the future of the area.

[robertsondavies]

I think today or tomorrow, or even Wednesday would be a great day for you and robertsondavies to come and sit and watch the traffic in SS(vehicular and pedestrian, and bicycle) Then you could offer a firsthand opinion regarding your position on LSV's on 30A. It may be a bit different.

I did come and take a look. Here is what I see. GMC Yukons, GMC Yukon XLs, Chevrolet Tahoe, Chevrolet Suburbans, Nissan Armadas, Pathfinders, Land Rover Range Rovers, Land Rover Land Rovers, Toyota Sequoiyas, Toyota Siennas, Honda Oddysseys, a bunch of pedestrians, hard core cyclists, and bike riders... and a couple LSVs. I wish it were 95% LSVs instead of 95% SUV's until the day we all ride magic carpets or walk everywhere.

[Jesus Christ]

Hey, Chris Cornell. I thought I got rid of you.

You registered your account a few days after mine. You are obviously copying my moves.

I already told you- the brightest stars in heaven and on earth are known by their first name. Think Elvis, Madonna, Cher, Beyonce. I am the real deal. You are a do-gooder and I appreciate that. But there's no room for both of us in this forum.

There is only one Kurt and there is only one Jesus.

Scram or I'm telling my dad.

P.S> Let me know if you want to meet for a glass of wine sometime.

Remember that vow of poverty? Those big brass boys you've got would definitely qualify as riches.

I don't think we should get into who the imposter is, everybody views us differently anyway. You have your take, and I'll have mine. If the mortals can't agree on which day of the week is holy do you really think they are going to choose which one of us to listen too?

P.S. I'm totally with you on the no changing of speed limits.

[Geo]

I have good news and bad news. I'll start with the bad.

Jesus died last Friday.
But rumor has it that he rose from the dead two days later on Sunday. So hopefully he'll see this soon. Lol

[kurt]

If you want to have the right to travel on the roads in a golf cart and be treated like a car, you might want to think about using parking spaces.

Today at Publix - these dudes must have thought the front entry was a carport.

[YellowDog]

<rant mode on>
Getting tired of these things already. I don't buy all the environmental posturing. That's a cover for wanting to make a buck renting and selling them. Meanwhile, you've got self-indulgent folks like this, having a good time and inconveniencing everyone else.
<rant mode off>

[Lake View Too]

Where's a sharp knife when you need one?

[Sheila]

Where's a sharp knife when you need one?

Aisle 7 @ the Watercolor Publix.

[Jdarg]

If you want to have the right to travel on the roads in a golf cart and be treated like a car, you might want to think about using parking spaces.

Today at Publix - these dudes must have thought the front entry was a carport.

Classy.

[wadecool]

Such an anti progressive majority, you apparently have here. Fine, if you're all together on it, then Walton County can lead the charge against the use of smaller, fuel effecient vehicles. I would find it odd and actually comical to see the home of New Urbanism, lead the way to preserve the dominance of the Nissan Armada. You can be the anti progressive to take the podium, to represent the overwhelming majority that you represent. Turn back the tide on small vehicles!! " Let it be known that if you support LSVs, incessantly, you are both in the "minority" and are alienating and rubbing us the wrong way. "


Neighborhood Electric Vehicles...NEV...LSV...ZEV...GEM... | FixingThePlanet.com

LSV Road Use Legislative Developments « Small, Task-Oriented Vehicles (STOV)

VerdeGoh! Electric Vehicles - FAQ's

Innovation Times Nov/Dec 2008: Whither the LSV? A Concept in Search of a Wider Market (IUV Magazine Article)

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...s/lsv/lsv.html

You are hilarious on so many fronts! I'm going to pick an obvious one that noone has mentioned to date. Apparently, someone in a Nissan Armada backed over your tricycle, stole your parking place at the last Black Friday sale, or something else tragic because that is the vehicle of choice you have used over and over as the jolly roger against your precious LSV. But..... you made a critical mistake along the way..... you mentioned that you drive a Chevy Tahoe. Oopps, I know thats a cat you wish would go back into the bag, but its just not possible here. As an avid Car and Driver reader, I'll just whisper over your shoulder that the difference in city fuel economy (since we're talking about Hwy 30a) between an Armada and a Tahoe is 1 or 2 mpg. To know how deep your progressive ideas run, one doesn't need to look much further here. BTW, does your Tahoe have 4x4 and rear a/c as well? Shame, shame.

[YellowDog]

You are hilarious on so many fronts! I'm going to pick an obvious one that noone has mentioned to date. Apparently, someone in a Nissan Armada backed over your tricycle, stole your parking place at the last Black Friday sale, or something else tragic because that is the vehicle of choice you have used over and over as the jolly roger against your precious LSV. But..... you made a critical mistake along the way..... you mentioned that you drive a Chevy Tahoe. Oopps, I know thats a cat you wish would go back into the bag, but its just not possible here. As an avid Car and Driver reader, I'll just whisper over your shoulder that the difference in city fuel economy (since we're talking about Hwy 30a) between an Armada and a Tahoe is 1 or 2 mpg. To know how deep your progressive ideas run, one doesn't need to look much further here. BTW, does your Tahoe have 4x4 and rear a/c as well? Shame, shame.

We don't need to cast this in liberal vs. conservative terms, no matter how tempting that may be from RobertsonDavies' posts. It's really a lot simpler. He wants the county to accomodate him in a money-making scheme. Money for him, inconvenience for the vast majority of vacationers and residents. Not a partisan issue, unless you just want to make it one to enjoy the divisiveness.

[wadecool]

We don't need to cast this in liberal vs. conservative terms, no matter how tempting that may be from RobertsonDavies' posts. It's really a lot simpler. He wants the county to accomodate him in a money-making scheme. Money for him, inconvenience for the vast majority of vacationers and residents. Not a partisan issue, unless you just want to make it one to enjoy the divisiveness.

I honestly wasn't trying to make this debate about left vs. right, although like you said, its clear to see which way RobertsonDavies leans politically. I was just pointing out a recurring theme in his posts that literally made me laugh out loud as I really love a good ironic statement. That being said, YellowDog, you put it as simply and accurately as anyone could have. Btw, did RobertsonDavies take his ball and go home or what?

[joho]

If you want to have the right to travel on the roads in a golf cart and be treated like a car, you might want to think about using parking spaces.

Today at Publix - these dudes must have thought the front entry was a carport.

Who's guessing this is a tourist? lol
Why do these people seem to leave their brains at the State line?

[AndrewG]

He should have gotten a ticket. I guess like everything else certain laws are enforced and others ignored. Would it have been worse if he were an illegal alien or would you have had pity?

[SWGB]

If you want to have the right to travel on the roads in a golf cart and be treated like a car, you might want to think about using parking spaces.

Today at Publix - these dudes must have thought the front entry was a carport.

I really wish I had taken the photo of the SUV that did the exact same thing in the rain over the summer.

LSV's don't cause bad driving, the oblivious morons do. I've heard that rhetoric before and I didn't like that organizations ideals either.

All that being said a friend of ours has a golf cart on the west end of 30A near Goat Feathers. He uses it to drive to the beach club, Gulf Place, and Bally Hoo's. He was floored when I explained this thread to him. His question was why a mode of transportation designed for a very small radius was being proposed as a long distance travel method?

Here's some standards of golf cart use in a work setting on a restricted area:

http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/pubs/vide...tpgolfcart.pdf

The preceding was brought to you by a state that passed a law allowing guns in bars.

[leencoo12]

We watch the traffic on the east end of 30A in the morning and evenings there's a ton of folks that don't abide by the 30 mph coming out of Rosemary. I'd be for more enforcement of the present limit and a consistant 25 or 30 the entire length of our Scenic Highway.

Do LSVs include mopeds? I know the tourists love them, but they've become an eye sore / noise nuisance on scenic 98.

[kurt]

Do LSVs include mopeds? I know the tourists love them, but they've become an eye sore / noise nuisance on scenic 98.

No - they are street legal and most are fairly high speed. Kinda cool to see them zipping around an Italian town but annoying in most tourist spots. Yet a ton of fun and energy efficient. Also quite dangerous as most people who rent are novices.

I suspect that in coming years most will be electric and quiet.

[AndrewG]

Cool fun vehicles attract morons who just want to step on the pedal and forgo understanding the laws or operators manual.