Beach vehicle permit ordinance changes

**Yzarctoo** · 08-28-2009, 07:58 PM

It's on the agenda.

**dynamitedaddy** · 08-28-2009, 08:12 PM

I inquired and was told it is about how the tax collector issues permits and who it, not about stopping people from driving on the beach.

**wrobert** · 08-28-2009, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by dynamitedaddy

I inquired and was told it is about how the tax collector issues permits and who it, not about stopping people from driving on the beach.

If they are going to stop people from building bonfires from May until November because of the turtles, then they ought to stop them from driving on the beach. But it is good that they are looking at the patently unconstitutional requirements that they have implemented for driving permits. I remember asking a commissioner about that years ago and he said he needed to have something special reserved for walton county property owners that the tourist could not do also.

So much for fairness and the US Constitution.

**Yzarctoo** · 08-28-2009, 09:40 PM

OK

Originally Posted by dynamitedaddy

I inquired and was told it is about how the tax collector issues permits and who it, not about stopping people from driving on the beach.

Limited number of permits issued...a change in the rules as to who might or might not be qualified to get permit...maybe less permits...maybe wrong to say stop driving on beach...but the other two Walton beaches that folks could drive on disappeared without too much fan fare...after one of these type meetings where the driving on beach ordinance was being looked at....I would still stay on top of it.

**seagrovegirl** · 08-28-2009, 11:59 PM

It is my understanding that if your vehicle in not permitted in Walton Co,Florida, a permit will not be issued.

**ShallowsNole** · 08-29-2009, 01:49 PM

I know nothing about it one way or the other...except that most of us were outraged way back when we were stopped from driving on the beach whereever we could (except for state parks, and the only one at that point was Grayton). So, a compromise was reached for Grayton and Inlet Beach. The access at One Seagrove Place stayed open for a time (that was a fun hill to be in the back of a truck on!) Then runoff or something closed it. A turtle took up labor and delivery at the Inlet Beach access, or so we were told. So, that left Grayton.

The primary reason for keeping driving accesses was so that residents and those who had summer homes here could launch boats. Without the accesses, there is nowhere in Walton County to launch directly into the Gulf, and it's a hail of a long way around and back via the Bay. The vehicle w/o boat permits were just to keep a semblance of how it's always been for those who have lived here or invested here.

I haven't heard what is or isn't being looked at, but the number of permits has increased exponentionally over the last 15 years and it's basically a zoo out there. When our office still issued them, we had complaints about people with "ugly boat trailers" blocking the view of the Gulf. We also would get people who would become visibly upset after paying for their permit and then reading the paperwork explaining that you can only drive 500 feet east and west. There is also a contingent that has no plans to drive on the beach, but that decal is a status symbol.

If it has to be restricted any further, keep the boat launch open. But perhaps that should be the only reason.

**Beach Runner** · 08-29-2009, 02:51 PM

If I were a local, I wouldn't like a "no vehicles except for boat launching" rule. It's a long way to the potty if you're at the edge of the water on Grayton Beach and need to go. Plus it's a long walk to/from the beach for little kids and old folks.

**Teresa** · 08-29-2009, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by wrobert

If they are going to stop people from building bonfires from May until November because of the turtles, then they ought to stop them from driving on the beach. But it is good that they are looking at the patently unconstitutional requirements that they have implemented for driving permits. I remember asking a commissioner about that years ago and he said he needed to have something special reserved for walton county property owners that the tourist could not do also.

So much for fairness and the US Constitution.

please wrobert. Driving on the beach is a privilege for property-owning locals who want to pay to do so. We live here year round and many of us enjoy the convenience of driving our kayaks and chairs down to the beach several times a week. permits need to be limited - and this is a totally fair and common sense way to do it. It is our county and our responsibility to protect our beaches and ourselves from the masses of unsafe/inexperienced beach drivers from all over the country. Tourists on the roads are bad enough sometimes. you really think they need to drive on our beaches? this is not a constitutional issue. its a local safety, good common sense issue.

now, whether or not we need to continue having even locals drive on the beach is another matter entirely. The number of cars/trucks on the beach in the last 5 years or so has gotten out of hand during peak months. I believe it is becoming unsafe, at least during June and July, and big holidays such as Memorial Day.

can you even imagine if every local and every visitor was allowed access to the beach via 4-wheel car or truck? we would have even more stuck vehicles, and before you know it, people will just abandon stuck cars out in the sand along with their BA tents. BAD idea. Let's not invite disaster to our beaches.

Robert - do you live anywhere near here? just wondering.

**ShallowsNole** · 08-29-2009, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Beach Runner

If I were a local, I wouldn't like a "no vehicles except for boat launching" rule. It's a long way to the potty if you're at the edge of the water on Grayton Beach and need to go. Plus it's a long walk to/from the beach for little kids and old folks.

Not far at all if you are at Gulfview Heights, really close if you are at Fort Panic, or even Inlet Beach with their new bathrooms. btw, Grayton has no public bathrooms at all, yet.

The only reason Grayton is groovy is that people can drive and it's like old home week down there. I grew up on the beach at Grayton, but between the truck traffic and the sheer number of people, I do not go to the beach there anymore except for special occasions. Far too crowded.

**wrobert** · 08-29-2009, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Tootsie

please wrobert. Driving on the beach is a privilege for property-owning locals who want to pay to do so. We live here year round and many of us enjoy the convenience of driving our kayaks and chairs down to the beach several times a week. permits need to be limited - and this is a totally fair and common sense way to do it. It is our county and our responsibility to protect our beaches and ourselves from the masses of unsafe/inexperienced beach drivers from all over the country. Tourists on the roads are bad enough sometimes. you really think they need to drive on our beaches? this is not a constitutional issue. its a local safety, good common sense issue.

now, whether or not we need to continue having even locals drive on the beach is another matter entirely. The number of cars/trucks on the beach in the last 5 years or so has gotten out of hand during peak months. I believe it is becoming unsafe, at least during June and July, and big holidays such as Memorial Day.

can you even imagine if every local and every visitor was allowed access to the beach via 4-wheel car or truck? we would have even more stuck vehicles, and before you know it, people will just abandon stuck cars out in the sand along with their BA tents. BAD idea. Let's not invite disaster to our beaches.

Robert - do you live anywhere near here? just wondering.

Yes. And I grew up on Pensacola Beach. I remember the dunes we had growing up and the work we all did destroying them as driving was allowed on the beach. Thankfully that sort of driving was finally stopped, but alas, it did not matter, the developers finally finished the job that my parents started. But boy did we have fun.

I have no problem with driving on the beach, I have a problem with the hypocrisy. They want to ban bonfires because they hurt the turtles, yet driving does not? We can get a permit to drive on the beach if we own property, not even close to the beach, just somewhere in Walton County? Those conditions are ludicrous and unconstitutional. But everyone talks about wanting to follow the law of the land, except we want an exception for driving on the beach. Hypocrisy abounds. If someone wants a permit I will sell you some Walton County dirt, cheap, so you can qualify before the changes take affect.

What is wrong with driving on the beach like they do in Daytona? Everyone pays a toll and drives away? I know, I know, we need to make sure that people that drive on the beach have a vehicle that can drive on the beach so they do not get stuck, why? If they want to try it, let them try it. We could make just as much money with a guvment wrecker that charges $500 to pull you out if you are stupid enough to try.

But the right thing to do would be to stop the driving in order to protect the environment and put some restrooms in at Grayton. Talk about something that is needed.

**Smiling JOe** · 08-31-2009, 09:41 AM

One thing to remember is that there isn't enough public parking at Grayton if you keep the vehicles off the beach. The homeowners in Grayton may be outraged at all the parking in the streets.

**Teresa** · 08-31-2009, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by wrobert

Yes. And I grew up on Pensacola Beach. I remember the dunes we had growing up and the work we all did destroying them as driving was allowed on the beach. Thankfully that sort of driving was finally stopped, but alas, it did not matter, the developers finally finished the job that my parents started. But boy did we have fun.

I have no problem with driving on the beach, I have a problem with the hypocrisy. They want to ban bonfires because they hurt the turtles, yet driving does not? We can get a permit to drive on the beach if we own property, not even close to the beach, just somewhere in Walton County? Those conditions are ludicrous and unconstitutional. But everyone talks about wanting to follow the law of the land, except we want an exception for driving on the beach. Hypocrisy abounds. If someone wants a permit I will sell you some Walton County dirt, cheap, so you can qualify before the changes take affect.

What is wrong with driving on the beach like they do in Daytona? Everyone pays a toll and drives away? I know, I know, we need to make sure that people that drive on the beach have a vehicle that can drive on the beach so they do not get stuck, why? If they want to try it, let them try it. We could make just as much money with a guvment wrecker that charges $500 to pull you out if you are stupid enough to try.

But the right thing to do would be to stop the driving in order to protect the environment and put some restrooms in at Grayton. Talk about something that is needed.

I can agree with your last statement. I don't want to give up driving to the beach but I will gladly do so when the time comes. meanwhile, there are restrictions on WHO can drive on the beach in addition to WHERE we can drive on the beach. these things may not be perfect restrictions - but they provide protection to the beach and it keeps the traffic down to a managable, safe level. we are not Daytona - we do not have a firm beach that serves as a two lane road. thankfully. I am thrilled we have the restrictions we have - we probably need additional restrictions as well. our beaches are wholly unique and deserve to be treated as such.

**SWGB** · 09-01-2009, 02:21 AM

Does it have something to do with the western "No Driving" sign? I heard, so no actual confirmation, that some of the beach front home owners had paid the county to move the sign 300 feet to the east.

Just curious if this is true and if it's what is coming up at the BCC?

**Miss Kitty** · 09-01-2009, 02:27 AM

I hope they hurry up and decide my fate before I get that midsize sand worthy suv. I was SO looking forward to have a status sticker on my car.

Never mind...I will have two status stickers on my car...sowl.com and 30A Funn.

**Chief Deputy TC** · 09-01-2009, 06:20 AM

The Tax Collector's Office is only proposing language to clarify "proof" of real property ownership, and to clarify permit eligibility when property is owned by an LLC,

Same issues regarding "dog on the beach" permits.

The discussion always gets expanded to "allow", "don't allow", expand to non-property owners, etc. when these ordinances are up for a review.

**SWGB** · 09-01-2009, 12:21 PM

Well kurt there goes your million dollar idea.

**scooterbug44** · 09-01-2009, 12:51 PM

I think that letting any Walton County property owner w/ a 4x4 be able to buy a permit and drive on the beach at Grayton is a great and very democratic thing.

It's one of the things that makes our community great.

**ShallowsNole** · 09-01-2009, 07:36 PM

I'm curious as to how many property owners come down, drive their ridiculously expensive vehicles on the beach, go home and then wonder 6 - 8 months wonder why their paint is peeling and their undercarriage is rusting away.

**kurt** · 09-09-2009, 02:15 PM

GRAYTON BEACH NEIGHBOHOOD ASSOCIATION: Beach Permit Committee Update

A Driving on the Beach Committee was formed when it was announced the the County Commissioners were going to be looking at this issue at their September Meeting. This committee was formed by concerned citizens to come up with some suggestions to present to the Commissioners. It was NOT a GBNA committee. Billy Buzzett and Grant Blackwell presented the committee's suggestions at the meeting. After the presentation the Commissioners voted to table the issued until October 13th for further review:

Summary: Proposed Beach Vehicle Ordinance...

**Smiling JOe** · 09-09-2009, 03:34 PM

Why the last paragraph? That was not mentioned by Grant last night.

**scooterbug44** · 09-09-2009, 05:35 PM

IMO if they are going to make an exception for Grayton property owners (can't decide how I feel about that), the 4x4 vehicle should have to be registered in the homeowners name too.

What are all the things that exclude you from being a registered voter in Walton County? While I am all for fewer felons on the beach with me, what about someone who lives here full time, owns property, but is not a US citizen and so is not a registered voter?

And how does this work for homes that are jointly owned or owned by an LLC etc. ?

I guess I have never thought it was too crowded - but that may be because I am rather selective about when I go.

**Smiling JOe** · 09-10-2009, 07:55 AM

I believe the new proposed ordinance (not the one proposed by grayton beach peeps) covers the definition of who constitutes members of a household, and therefore who is eligible to drive on the beach. I don't believe it includes a renter being able to drive a permit holder's vehicle onto the beach, but I really have a hard time believing that the Sheriff's office will be able to enforce that at random.

**miznotebook** · 12-04-2009, 02:31 PM

For anyone interested in the driving on the beach issue, there had been a county commission hearing on proposed changes to the "driving on the beach" ordinance set for Dec. 8, but by request of the county attorney's office the public hearing is being postponed to Jan. 12, 2010.

**kurt** · 12-04-2009, 04:22 PM

If anyone gets a copy of the draft please post or link.

**miznotebook** · 12-04-2009, 07:44 PM

The county attorney has been the one working on the new draft, and from what I understand he has been very busy and involved with the Supreme Court case regarding the Walton County beachfront property owners. I understand he went to D.C. for the hearing this week on that case. There was a "beach driving" ordinance draft posted on the county Web site along with the Dec. 8 BCC meeting agenda. However I believe it was the original draft from a few months ago when the BCC first started looking at changes to the driving on the beach regulations. A good many additional changes have been discussed since that time. There will likely be an updated draft in advance of the Jan. 12 public hearing on the beach driving ordinance.

**miznotebook** · 01-07-2010, 02:57 PM

The amendment to the beach driving ordinance that the county commissioners will be considering on Jan. 12 is posted today on the Walton County Web site today, along with the meeting agenda and other items. For those interested in the beach driving issue, hopefully this link should take you to the proposed amendment: http://www.co.walton.fl.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1787.
The meeting starts at 4 p.m. at the South Walton Annex, and the public hearing on the amendment is listed for 4:25.

**Just Curious** · 01-07-2010, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by miznotebook

The amendment to the beach driving ordinance that the county commissioners will be considering on Jan. 12 is posted today on the Walton County Web site today, along with the meeting agenda and other items. For those interested in the beach driving issue, hopefully this link should take you to the proposed amendment: http://www.co.walton.fl.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1787.
The meeting starts at 4 p.m. at the South Walton Annex, and the public hearing on the amendment is listed for 4:25.

Do you have any thoughts on the proposed amendment? I'm not sure I like the whole "grandfathering" idea

**miznotebook** · 01-07-2010, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Just Curious

Do you have any thoughts on the proposed amendment? I'm not sure I like the whole "grandfathering" idea

It's nice of you to ask, and I assume you're asking me, but I think I'm better off staying neutral on that issue, especially since I'm a reporter. However, I'll be very interested to see what opinions others in the community will have.

**TreeFrog** · 01-07-2010, 05:44 PM

Do I read this correctly?

It sounds like there will be no new permits issued, only renewals. If so, I don't care for it. I am a full-time resident who previously had a permit, now expired. Would like the opportunity in the future to get another.

**NotDeadYet** · 01-07-2010, 06:54 PM

That's the way I read it. If you haven't got one now, you won't be able to get one in the future. Moreover, if you have one now and you let it expire it will go away and you won't be able to get it back.
Doesn't seem very fair to me.

**scooterbug44** · 01-07-2010, 07:31 PM

I agree - why should an out of state visitor be allowed to have a permit when a full time resident can't?

Especially since part of the reason it is being reviewed is because of the large number of vehicles on the beach during the TOURIST season and the large number of permit holders from one residence!

IMO limiting it to FL residents & landowners for new permits and grandfathering in existing ones (and limiting it to a max of 2 permits per household for both) is much fairer.

**kurt** · 01-07-2010, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

I agree - why should an out of state visitor be allowed to have a permit when a full time resident can't?

Especially since part of the reason it is being reviewed is because of the large number of vehicles on the beach during the TOURIST season and the large number of permit holders from one residence!

IMO limiting it to FL residents & landowners for new permits and grandfathering in existing ones (and limiting it to a max of 2 permits per household for both) is much fairer.

Out of state visitors are not allowed permits. Walton county property owners who live out of the county are if there is a dwelling on their property and if they currently hold a permit.

**scooterbug44** · 01-07-2010, 07:55 PM

That's what I meant.

Rephrase:

Why should an out of state second home owner (or their renters) be able to get a permit when a full time Walton County resident cannot?

**kurt** · 01-07-2010, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

That's what I meant.

Rephrase:

Why should an out of state second home owner (or their renters) be able to get a permit when a full time Walton County resident cannot?

It is a point of contention. In this "grandfather" scenario they are attempting to allow the non-residents who currently have permits to renew them, rather than cut them off entirely. No doubt some non-resident families who have a long-time home here, especially in Grayton, are being given consideration.

It will be interesting to see how Grayton residents and non-resident owners react. I believe most feel that they should be granted a permit no matter what. But many also would like to see the number of permits dwindle. And then there are those who wouldn't mind having no vehicles on the beach at all.

**TreeFrog** · 01-07-2010, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

IMO limiting it to FL residents & landowners for new permits and grandfathering in existing ones (and limiting it to a max of 2 permits per household for both) is much fairer.

This sounds like a fair alternative to me.

If they still feel the need for a cap on the total number of permits, it would seem fair to let new permits come from the count of expired and non-renewed ones. FIFO waiting list for those. Priority for full-time resident/owners in some way, but not to exclude vacation home owners.

**ray** · 01-07-2010, 08:44 PM

so if i don't have one now am i allowed to get one tommorrow before the meeting?i own property but have never got one

**Jdarg** · 01-07-2010, 09:05 PM

I would like an uber-fine for the people who take total advantage of the system- like the car I keep seeing around town with the sticker affixed to a magnet- and the magnet slapped on the front side door. Nice job- did it come with your rental?

**kurt** · 01-07-2010, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by ray

so if i don't have one now am i allowed to get one tommorrow before the meeting?i own property but have never got one

I wondered the same thing. I don't see why not.

**kurt** · 01-07-2010, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by jdarg

I would like an uber-fine for the people who take total advantage of the system- like the car I keep seeing around town with the sticker affixed to a magnet- and the magnet slapped on the front side door. Nice job- did it come with your rental?

As you are aware, it has to be permanently affixed. Not sure what would happen if a deputy saw it on the beach. Also, the actual permit is a printout that must be kept in the vehicle. It must match the vehicle ID and the owner or other designated driver.

**John R** · 01-07-2010, 11:27 PM

does any household need more than 1?

**scooterbug44** · 01-08-2010, 02:17 PM

I like my solution the best - shocking huh?

Plus I already told Papa Scooterbug I get his old truck when he gets a new one so I can drive on the beach.......................but I am still years from a beach permit.

**Scooter** · 01-08-2010, 02:52 PM

I've owned property in Grayton for 8 years. I would like to get a permit asap if I am not allowed in the future. I do not yet have a dwelling on this property. Am I allowed a permit?

**miznotebook** · 01-08-2010, 03:36 PM

Here is the section from the current county code of ordinance for vehicles on the beach as it appears on MuniCode. No mention of a requirement for a habitable structure on the real property in order for a beach driving permit to be issued. If the commissioners approve the amendment that is proposed this would change. This will be considered at their meeting on Tuesday, Jan. 12.
"Sec. 22-57. Permitted vehicles on the beach.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to drive, or cause to be driven, an unauthorized vehicle on the beach of Walton County unless permitted as provided herein.
(b) Before any vehicle shall be allowed in the designated limited access areas on the public beaches of Walton County, a permit must be obtained for the vehicle in the form of a decal, and permanently affixed in the back window of said vehicle, or the rear of the motor vehicle.
(c) Walton County real property owners and immediate family members residing with the property owner may obtain a permit for the use of vehicles along the designated limited access areas on the beach of Walton County. Proof of real property ownership is required.
(d) The Walton County Tax Collector will issue the permits upon receipt of a completed application. The Walton County Tax Collector shall retain $5.00 as a processing fee.
(e) Only four-wheel drive vehicles shall be permitted.
(f) The designated limited access area permit described in subsection (c) above, shall cost the sum of $105.00 per vehicle. One decal (vehicle permit) shall be issued for each vehicle authorized to use the limited access area. Permanently disabled landowners, upon proof of disability, will be exempt from this fee.
(g) In addition to the designated limited access area permit described in subsection (c) above, individuals launching boats shall be required to have a corresponding trailer decal for an additional $30.00. The decal shall be placed on the tongue of the trailer.
(h) The speed limit of authorized vehicles along the designated limited access on the public beaches of Walton County shall be five miles per hour.
(i) Any reckless driving along the designated limited access of the public beaches shall constitute a violation of this article.
(j) Conviction for violation of this article shall result in automatic revocation of the vehicle permit.
(k) All permits issued shall be for a period of one year and will expire June 1 of each year.
(l) Permitted vehicles are not allowed on the beach other than in the designated limited access areas.
(m) All access areas shall be appropriately marked and designated as such.
(n) Driving is prohibited from 10:00 p.m. until sunrise, with the exception of vehicles launching or recovering boats. All vehicles launching boats must be parked in designated parking areas.
(o) All-terrain vehicles are not permitted on the public beach. All-terrain vehicles used by sheriff department officers and county employees for official business may be driven on the beach. Beach vendor permits may include all-terrain vehicles that are restricted to setting up and breaking down vending sites only.
(Ord. No. 2003-07, � 7, 4-8-03; Ord. No. 2005-11, � 2, 4-26-05)"
The Walton County Tax Collector's office issues the beach driving permits. They would be able to give an authoritative answer to questions about these permits. They can be contacted at (850) 892-8121 or (850) 267-3001, and their Web site is Walton County Tax Collector.

**Miss Kitty** · 01-08-2010, 04:59 PM

I printed a copy of the application and it asks if you are a full time Walton Co. resident. Is this new verbiage? I have to wait for the plates for my new 4 wheel vehicle, but wanted to go ahead and get it while the gettings good.

Ha! Just saw the phone numbers above...I'll call them on Monday! Thanks.

**Beach Runner** · 01-08-2010, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Miss Kitty

I printed a copy of the application and it asks if you are a full time Walton Co. resident. Is this new verbiage? I have to wait for the plates for my new 4 wheel vehicle, but wanted to go ahead and get it while the gettings good.

Ha! Just saw the phone numbers above...I'll call them on Monday! Thanks.

I think we'll drive down on Monday. There's a piece of property in Grayton that we have our eye on. But no way I am gonna walk from the beach to Hotz Avenue if I need to "go." We need a beach permit.

**ShallowsNole** · 01-09-2010, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Beach Runner

I think we'll drive down on Monday. There's a piece of property in Grayton that we have our eye on. But no way I am gonna walk from the beach to Hotz Avenue if I need to "go." We need a beach permit.

There are many public beach accesses that have restrooms, and not far to walk.

**Andy A** · 01-09-2010, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by ShallowsNole

There are many public beach accesses that have restrooms, and not far to walk.

Yes, but Grayton Beach, where we have been holding our soirees, is not one of them. I know from personal experience. Its way too far to the Red Bar.

**Lynnie** · 01-09-2010, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Miss Kitty

I printed a copy of the application and it asks if you are a full time Walton Co. resident. Is this new verbiage? I have to wait for the plates for my new 4 wheel vehicle, but wanted to go ahead and get it while the gettings good.

Ha! Just saw the phone numbers above...I'll call them on Monday! Thanks.

I wonder if it's always said 'full time?' I can't remember, but then there's this, too, stating nothing of residency.

Raw land is real property.

Requirements:

Applicant must own real property in Walton County.
Applicant must own the vehicle to be permitted.
The vehicle must be a 4 wheel drive vehicle.

**miznotebook** · 01-09-2010, 11:26 AM

Possibly the purpose the question on the application that Miss Kitty pointed out is for record keeping, to know the number of county residents with beach driving permits versus the number of permit holders who are nonresidents, which would include second home owners. Some figures on this have been presented recently.