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Thread: Opposition to health care reform "fishy?"


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    Opposition to health care reform "fishy?"

    Has anyone else seen this yet? The White House - Blog Post - Facts Are Stubborn Things

    There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.
    "Or through casual conversation???"
    I don't like this even a little bit! Maybe I'm too suspicious, but I do not trust ANY .gov site to collect this type of information. What are they going to do with it? Have I been reported yet? Am I on some type of list now because I don't want to see a public plan? Will I lose security clearance because of it?

    Too many ways for this to be a bad thing. There is no good reason for it to begin with.
    They’re all for diversity in everything but thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
    Has anyone else seen this yet? The White House - Blog Post - Facts Are Stubborn Things



    "Or through casual conversation???"
    I don't like this even a little bit! Maybe I'm too suspicious, but I do not trust ANY .gov site to collect this type of information. What are they going to do with it? Have I been reported yet? Am I on some type of list now because I don't want to see a public plan? Will I lose security clearance because of it?

    Too many ways for this to be a bad thing. There is no good reason for it to begin with.
    You sure are reading a lot into this, calm down until you have more facts.

    On second thought, you might be more comfortable in a panic, go for it.
    Last edited by poppy; 08-05-2009 at 03:59 PM.
    "We must recognize the fact that adequate food is only the first requisite for life. For a decent and humane life we must also provide an opportunity for good education, remunerative employment, comfortable housing, good clothing and effective and compassionate medical care." Norman Borlaug

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
    Has anyone else seen this yet? The White House - Blog Post - Facts Are Stubborn Things



    "Or through casual conversation???"
    I don't like this even a little bit! Maybe I'm too suspicious, but I do not trust ANY .gov site to collect this type of information. What are they going to do with it? Have I been reported yet? Am I on some type of list now because I don't want to see a public plan? Will I lose security clearance because of it?

    Too many ways for this to be a bad thing. There is no good reason for it to begin with.
    Your post looks fishy to me. It's full of scare tactics.

  4. #4
    Winnie, I am ahead of you! I copied all the Sowal Heath care threads and sent them to flag@thewwhiotehouse.gov and moveon.org.--they too were requesting similar info. on social media's "general discussions." I have done this on similar threads here as well. It will be great thing for these organization to understand the caliber of the information and misinformation out there, and the average citizens responses to them, by geographic location.

    Winnie, just be glad that on Sowal no one will be able to find out anything about you, me or anyone else, since we all have made up names and non-existent profiles. Not to worry.

    No need to be paranoid!

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    The government trying to find out what misinformation is being spread so they can counteract it by providing factual information is not "fishy."

    The over a million dollars a day the health care industry is spending on lobbyists IS!

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    I'm sure you would all feel just as secure if something like this were set up last year or any of the previous 8. (sarcasm off)

    Instead of just saying I'm paranoid, explain to me why they need to have casual conversations reported to them. They have teams of staff that follow just these sorts of things without asking the public to "report."

    It is a bad idea! Really bad. Even if they have pure motives, which they may, the appearance is of intimidation.

    They can get a general feel for how the opposition feels from townhall meetings or letters and calls to Representatives. I wrote to my Representatives already and gave them my vitals. I don't fear government, I participate. That doesn't make this "snitch" idea any better.
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    Think less "black helicopters" and more "snopes.com".

    Voluntarily reporting spam or the Patriot Act - guess which worries me less?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
    I'm sure you would all feel just as secure if something like this were set up last year or any of the previous 8. (sarcasm off)

    Instead of just saying I'm paranoid, explain to me why they need to have casual conversations reported to them. They have teams of staff that follow just these sorts of things without asking the public to "report."

    It is a bad idea! Really bad. Even if they have pure motives, which they may, the appearance is of intimidation.

    They can get a general feel for how the opposition feels from townhall meetings or letters and calls to Representatives. I wrote to my Representatives already and gave them my vitals. I don't fear government, I participate. That doesn't make this "snitch" idea any better.
    Where does it say "report casual conversations"?
    "We must recognize the fact that adequate food is only the first requisite for life. For a decent and humane life we must also provide an opportunity for good education, remunerative employment, comfortable housing, good clothing and effective and compassionate medical care." Norman Borlaug

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    Quote Originally Posted by scooterbug44 View Post
    Think less "black helicopters" and more "snopes.com".

    Voluntarily reporting spam or the Patriot Act - guess which worries me less?
    Spam is one thing, "fishy" casual conversation is quite another!

    Of course you trust President Obama's White House and did not trust that of President Bush. I am/was wary of both.
    They’re all for diversity in everything but thought.
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    Scooty, so you are okay with the phrase in H. R. 3200 that says that everyone 65 or older must having counseling at least every five years to discuss dying with dignity? I'll bet your parents are about 10 years away from 65. Would you like it if they got ill, and Medicare refused to pay because the cost wasn't worth it at their age? I think not.

    There are other references in there relating to rationing which scare the heck out of me. I mean, as it is, insurance companies deny so many procedures. As I've said before, now add the government in as a further barrier to health care.

    I haven't heard anyone explain to my satisfaction why private insurance can't just stay the way it is. Then if someone loses his/her health insurance due to unemployment or can't afford health insurance or can't get health insurance due to a pre-existing condition, then the government would step in for those people. Kind of like the government does with Medicare, only you don't have to be 65.

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    All they are asking is for people to forward them emails or web sites spreading false information about healthcare.

    If you don't like it, don't send them anything, and calm the heck down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scooterbug44 View Post
    All they are asking is for people to forward them emails or web sites spreading false information about healthcare.

    If you don't like it, don't send them anything, and calm the heck down.
    Still no good reason for this?
    They’re all for diversity in everything but thought.
    George Will

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach Runner View Post
    Scooty, so you are okay with the phrase in H. R. 3200 that says that everyone 65 or older must having counseling at least every five years to discuss dying with dignity? I'll bet your parents are about 10 years away from 65. Would you like it if they got ill, and Medicare refused to pay because the cost wasn't worth it at their age? I think not.

    There are other references in there relating to rationing which scare the heck out of me. I mean, as it is, insurance companies deny so many procedures. As I've said before, now add the government in as a further barrier to health care.

    I haven't heard anyone explain to my satisfaction why private insurance can't just stay the way it is. Then if someone loses his/her health insurance due to unemployment or can't afford health insurance or can't get health insurance due to a pre-existing condition, then the government would step in for those people. Kind of like the government does with Medicare, only you don't have to be 65.
    We're not discussing healthcare, we're discussing Winnie's freak-out about the government's request that people forward them false emails/sites about healthcare so they can refute the info.

    The particulars of health care are being discussed ad nauseum in many other threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scooterbug44 View Post
    We're not discussing healthcare, we're discussing Winnie's freak-out about the government's request that people forward them false emails/sites about healthcare so they can refute the info.

    The particulars of health care are being discussed ad nauseum in many other threads.
    Right...because this White House doesn't get e-mail or surf the Internet themselves.
    They’re all for diversity in everything but thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooterbug44 View Post
    We're not discussing healthcare, we're discussing Winnie's freak-out about the government's request that people forward them false emails/sites about healthcare so they can refute the info.

    The particulars of health care are being discussed ad nauseum in many other threads.
    I value your opinions, even though they are frequently at odds with mine. You seem to be well versed on the issues and make posts that show some real thought and make me think.

    So can you answer my questions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach Runner View Post
    Scooty, so you are okay with the phrase in H. R. 3200 that says that everyone 65 or older must having counseling at least every five years to discuss dying with dignity? I'll bet your parents are about 10 years away from 65. Would you like it if they got ill, and Medicare refused to pay because the cost wasn't worth it at their age? I think not.

    There are other references in there relating to rationing which scare the heck out of me. I mean, as it is, insurance companies deny so many procedures. As I've said before, now add the government in as a further barrier to health care.

    I haven't heard anyone explain to my satisfaction why private insurance can't just stay the way it is. Then if someone loses his/her health insurance due to unemployment or can't afford health insurance or can't get health insurance due to a pre-existing condition, then the government would step in for those people. Kind of like the government does with Medicare, only you don't have to be 65.
    How does it follow that discussing end of life plans with a doctor will lead to Medicare witholding payment? I think it's just common sense to discuss end of life plans with just about anyone who will listen. Doctors, attoneys, relatives... I know for certain there are conditions in which I would not want to be kept alive, and would want do not feed and do not resuscitate orders issued. Many are wary to discuss these issues and by the time it matters it is too late. They end up stuck in a living sort of limbo when they would much rather be dead while at the same time they are costing Medicare hundreds of thousands of dollars. Before I become alarmed by this bill, I will need to see something specific in the wording that freaks me out. The notion of letting go of someone in their later years is simply no cause for alarm to me, and neither is the prospect of myself dying with dignity.
    Last edited by LuciferSam; 08-05-2009 at 05:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
    Has anyone else seen this yet? The White House - Blog Post - Facts Are Stubborn Things



    "Or through casual conversation???"
    I don't like this even a little bit! Maybe I'm too suspicious, but I do not trust ANY .gov site to collect this type of information. What are they going to do with it? Have I been reported yet? Am I on some type of list now because I don't want to see a public plan? Will I lose security clearance because of it?

    Too many ways for this to be a bad thing. There is no good reason for it to begin with.

    Do you feel this way about Medicare? Medical teaching hospitals?

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    I don't have a problem w/ the counseling and think it is being blown out of proportion - especially since assisted suicided and euthanasia are still illegal and far too often people don't have the necessary discussions until it is too late.

    Just because someone tells you something or gives you medical advice doesn't mean you follow it - the behavior of most Americans proves that.

    No matter what happens, Medicare will still be a part of my Grandmother's and my parents health care - so why will the government suddenly ration their care under Obama's plan and not under the current plan?

    We have not had a problem w/ the government providing health care for veterans and seniors before, so what is the big change now?

    The health insurance industry has been on my radar for a long time and I think reforms and changes are long overdue - I just wish we could actually talk about the merits of proposals and ideas instead of the misinformation being spread by the industry.

    The amount of money the health care industry is spending to fight this reform would pay for a lot of medical care and medicine, so forgive me for thinking that profit is their motivation, not our health. They've been "rationing" our medical care for decades.

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    It is becoming obvious that fear and paranoia strike deep in Sowal. Some Americans are so vulnerable and fearful, they are willing to even break the laws of the land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hnooe View Post
    Winnie, I am ahead of you! I copied all the Sowal Heath care threads and sent them to flag@thewwhiotehouse.gov and moveon.org.--they too were requesting similar info. on social media's "general discussions." I have done this on similar threads here as well. It will be great thing for these organization to understand the caliber of the information and misinformation out there, and the average citizens responses to them, by geographic location.

    Winnie, just be glad that on Sowal no one will be able to find out anything about you, me or anyone else, since we all have made up names and non-existent profiles. Not to worry.

    No need to be paranoid!

    Please please please please please! tell me this will get Obama or one of his representitives in here so we can have a nice chat with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 30ashopper View Post
    Please please please please please! tell me this will get Obama or one of his representitives in here so we can have a nice chat with them.
    Joe The 30ashopper
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  27. #22
    Discussing end of life care with a doctor is not mandated. The bill only provides for Medicare payment for such a consultation if it is wanted.
    I think this is fine. If you want a living will, Medicare will now pay for you to get some professional advice on writing one that reflects your wishes. If you don't want one, you don't have to do anything. The govt. is NOT mandating this.
    These false rumors are exactly what the White House wants to know about. Winnie, work on your reading comprehension skills please. Nothing you posted is asking for reports of "casual conversation." It is merely pointing out that rumors, like this end of life thing, are often spread that way. In other words, beware when someone tells you the govt. is making plans to off all the old people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hnooe View Post
    Winnie, I am ahead of you! I copied all the Sowal Heath care threads and sent them to flag@thewwhiotehouse.gov and moveon.org.--they too were requesting similar info. on social media's "general discussions." I have done this on similar threads here as well. It will be great thing for these organization to understand the caliber of the information and misinformation out there, and the average citizens responses to them, by geographic location.

    Winnie, just be glad that on Sowal no one will be able to find out anything about you, me or anyone else, since we all have made up names and non-existent profiles. Not to worry.

    No need to be paranoid!
    You are very dangerous.

  30. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by hnooe View Post
    Winnie, I am ahead of you! I copied all the Sowal Heath care threads and sent them to flag@thewwhiotehouse.gov and moveon.org.--they too were requesting similar info. on social media's "general discussions." I have done this on similar threads here as well. It will be great thing for these organization to understand the caliber of the information and misinformation out there, and the average citizens responses to them, by geographic location.

    Winnie, just be glad that on Sowal no one will be able to find out anything about you, me or anyone else, since we all have made up names and non-existent profiles. Not to worry.

    No need to be paranoid!
    Quote Originally Posted by 30ashopper View Post
    Please please please please please! tell me this will get Obama or one of his representitives in here so we can have a nice chat with them.

    Yea, when they got the thread the health care, the Democratic Party sent me a PM and asked that I resign from the party at once. Who knew?

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    Was going to post this today, but this seems like a good thread for it - CNN's latest poll, I found the responses rather fascinating.

    The poll indicates that only three in 10 of all Americans think the president's health care proposals will help their families. Another 44 percent feel they won't benefit but that other families will be helped by the president's plans, and one in five say no one will be helped.

    "Less than a quarter of Americans with private health insurance think that Obama's proposals would help them personally. Most people on Medicare and Medicaid also don't think that the Obama plan will help them," says Holland.

    The survey suggests that around seven out of 10 Americans think that major structural changes are necessary to reduce health care costs or provide insurance coverage to all Americans. At the same time, more than eight out of 10 people are satisfied with their own health care and nearly three out of four are happy with their own insurance.
    Essentially, a majority of the American public wants government to regulate in order to improve the system. A super majority also feel they are happy with their healthcare and insurance. Most don't think Obama's plan will help them. Interesting stuff.

    CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - CNN Poll: Americans split on Obama’s health care proposals « - Blogs from CNN.com

    This reinforces what I've been saying for a long time, people want reform, they just don't believe PelosiObamaCare will actually accomplish that goal.

    Hopfully the Senate will find a good middle ground we can all be happy with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NotDeadYet View Post
    Discussing end of life care with a doctor is not mandated. The bill only provides for Medicare payment for such a consultation if it is wanted.
    I think this is fine. If you want a living will, Medicare will now pay for you to get some professional advice on writing one that reflects your wishes. If you don't want one, you don't have to do anything. The govt. is NOT mandating this.
    These false rumors are exactly what the White House wants to know about. Winnie, work on your reading comprehension skills please. Nothing you posted is asking for reports of "casual conversation." It is merely pointing out that rumors, like this end of life thing, are often spread that way. In other words, beware when someone tells you the govt. is making plans to off all the old people.
    Swift boat tactics are being applied to this bill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuciferSam View Post
    How does it follow that discussing end of life plans with a doctor will lead to Medicare witholding payment? I think it's just common sense to discuss end of life plans with just about anyone who will listen. Doctors, attoneys, relatives... I know for certain there are conditions in which I would not want to be kept alive, and would want do not feed and do not resuscitate orders issued. Many are wary to discuss these issues and by the time it matters it is too late. They end up stuck in a living sort of limbo when they would much rather be dead while at the same time they are costing Medicare hundreds of thousands of dollars. Before I become alarmed by this bill, I will need to see something specific in the wording that freaks me out. The notion of letting go of someone in their later years is simply no cause for alarm to me, and neither is the prospect of myself dying with dignity.
    But why does that have to be done at least every five years? I mean, once you sign your living will papers and designate a power of attorney, isn't that already taken care of? Hubby went into the hospital last week for a cortisone injection for his bad back, and the admissions clerk counseled him on living will, etc. Every time we've gone to the hospital, whether it be for the flu on the weekend or food poisoning from a restaurant, they always ask these questions. So why does the government need to redundantly do this? That will just cost more in tax dollars, while not helping the uninsured or those with pre-existing conditons.

    Quote Originally Posted by scooterbug44 View Post
    I don't have a problem w/ the counseling and think it is being blown out of proportion - especially since assisted suicided and euthanasia are still illegal and far too often people don't have the necessary discussions until it is too late.

    Just because someone tells you something or gives you medical advice doesn't mean you follow it - the behavior of most Americans proves that.

    No matter what happens, Medicare will still be a part of my Grandmother's and my parents health care - so why will the government suddenly ration their care under Obama's plan and not under the current plan?

    We have not had a problem w/ the government providing health care for veterans and seniors before, so what is the big change now?

    The health insurance industry has been on my radar for a long time and I think reforms and changes are long overdue - I just wish we could actually talk about the merits of proposals and ideas instead of the misinformation being spread by the industry.

    The amount of money the health care industry is spending to fight this reform would pay for a lot of medical care and medicine, so forgive me for thinking that profit is their motivation, not our health. They've been "rationing" our medical care for decades.
    So if the government says that the speed limit is 70 and I'm going 90, I can just ignore their recommendation? Speed limits are set for our safety and health.

    I can truly say that there has never been a year when our health insurance premiums cost more that what we spent on health care. They might be villains for most younger people, but I don't know anyone over 35 who hasn't had at least one big ticket expense that surpassed the premiums.

    Those things being said, thanks, Scooty, for your answer. I will need some time to gather my thoughts.

  36. #28
    BR, I will try one more time. It is NOT mandated. The new proposed benefit would pay for a consultation once every five years. In other words, you can use the benefit every five years, but not oftener. And, you can use it not at all, if that is your choice.
    If you understood the living will fully and signed a POA, then you might not want any help. On the other hand, if say for instance you developed some complicated illness you didn't anticipate and you wanted some professional help making sure your living will reflects your wishes in these new circumstances, then you might want to use this benefit.
    A covered benefit is not the same thing as a mandate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NotDeadYet View Post
    BR, I will try one more time. It is NOT mandated. The new proposed benefit would pay for a consultation once every five years. In other words, you can use the benefit every five years, but not oftener. And, you can use it not at all, if that is your choice.
    If you understood the living will fully and signed a POA, then you might not want any help. On the other hand, if say for instance you developed some complicated illness you didn't anticipate and you wanted some professional help making sure your living will reflects your wishes in these new circumstances, then you might want to use this benefit.
    A covered benefit is not the same thing as a mandate.
    Good post, thanks.

    In April I started reading "Nudge," which is all about methods that governments and companies can use to "nudge" people to do what you want them to do or make better decisions. It is written by scholars but in a very casual way, full of anecdotes. Obama is a big fan and has even brought one of the authors into the administration (as a czar, natch ).

    I haven't finished the book (I read it while on vacation away from the kids and haven't picked it back up since the plane ride back) but I found it very insightful. It was not written FOR Obama but dovetails nicely into what he is trying to do. The above example of the non-mandate is classic Nudge style. Some people (mostly those who are harder to the right) might interpret it as Big Brother-like, but I don't see it that way at all. It is all about how you can make subtle pushes to get people to do things like eat healthier, save more, etc.

    It's a really good insight into what Obama is trying to do, and pretty benevolent in my mind. It's a carrot-and-not-stick approach.
    Proud to practice indoctrination
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    I can understand the paranoia and I think it is was rather counter productive of the White House to request that info from the constituency considering that there are prominent bloggers and groups, (New York Times and a MD Woman's GOP Group, for example) already calling and comparing Obama to Hitler. It has a certain totalitarian air to it. Not a good marketing strategy, IMHO.

    Having said that, I've read these blogs and statements from these individuals and groups and then have seen the WH post statements about the facts of portions of the Bill. One of the blogs comparing Obama to Hitler was inferring that a centralized medical database would somehow tie into rationing of care for the elderly and then assisted suicide. I can't find the WH fact sheet about it or I would post it. It explains the rationale for the central database. This is what they seek to accomplish by taking misinformation and providing a rationale explanation.

    I suppose if one is truly worried about the "regime" putting someone in opposition on a insubordination black list, they should leave now because I heard all will be sent to Guantanamo and have to listen to country music. maybe rap. Oh, and wear their pants below their underwear line.
    "With Liberty and nothing for all" ---my 3 yr. old nephew's version of the Pledge of Allegiance.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NotDeadYet View Post
    BR, I will try one more time. It is NOT mandated. The new proposed benefit would pay for a consultation once every five years. In other words, you can use the benefit every five years, but not oftener. And, you can use it not at all, if that is your choice.
    If you understood the living will fully and signed a POA, then you might not want any help. On the other hand, if say for instance you developed some complicated illness you didn't anticipate and you wanted some professional help making sure your living will reflects your wishes in these new circumstances, then you might want to use this benefit.
    A covered benefit is not the same thing as a mandate.
    Assisted suicide. Just wait. It is coming.

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    Maybe, just maybe it's more about collecting a general consensus for their effective evaluation and ultimate design of reform?

    I wouldn't be paranoid. Just to prove it, anybody got any weed? It's medicinal.

    There, send it off~~~~~~~~~
    Helping others is a gift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnie View Post
    Maybe, just maybe it's more about collecting a general consensus for their effective evaluation and ultimate design of reform?
    I wouldn't be paranoid. Just to prove it, anybody got any weed? It's medicinal.

    There, send it off~~~~~~~~~
    What in the double tooth pick does that mean?

  45. #34
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    Just a suggestion: maybe seeing the resistance as feedback from the populous would be valuable to the government on adjusting some of the ridiculous items in the present bill.

    Just a thought - you never know. I think this thread should be sent to the email address......your House Bill is not bright at all.

    Put weed in the Bill!

    Thank you!
    Helping others is a gift.

  46. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by steyou View Post
    What in the double tooth pick does that mean?
    I think she's saying that they may actually be gathering the info to get a pulse on where they think people want them to go with health care reform.

    The flip side to this is that if it's true it's kinda sad that they are so unsure with what they are doing that they have to gather info under the ruse of having people report "fishy" conversations or emails.

    When you start seeing Dems begin to lose their constituency over this (eg: AARP members, unions, etc) you will see some of them start changing their tunes. A lot of them are getting really frosty receptions in their own districts.
    Despite the current outward appearance of what the status is I think that they have a tough row to hoe ahead of them.
    "No, I don't skinny-dip. I chunky-dunk."


    Sleep Talkin' Man - 10/15/10

  47. #36
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    SC, you got 'row to hoe' just perfectly correct! That's a rarity!

    And, yes my thoughts were exactly as you explained. Thank you!

    Cheers~~~~~~~
    Helping others is a gift.

  48. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by steyou View Post
    Assisted suicide. Just wait. It is coming.
    ..and the problem with that is?

  49. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by 30ashopper View Post
    Was going to post this today, but this seems like a good thread for it - CNN's latest poll, I found the responses rather fascinating.



    Essentially, a majority of the American public wants government to regulate in order to improve the system. A super majority also feel they are happy with their healthcare and insurance. Most don't think Obama's plan will help them. Interesting stuff.

    CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - CNN Poll: Americans split on Obama’s health care proposals « - Blogs from CNN.com

    This reinforces what I've been saying for a long time, people want reform, they just don't believe PelosiObamaCare will actually accomplish that goal.

    Hopfully the Senate will find a good middle ground we can all be happy with.
    No, it doesn't. It reinforces the notion that some people can be for things even if they don't see any immediate benefit to themselves.

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  51. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hnooe View Post
    ..and the problem with that is?
    You are sick.

  52. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by steyou View Post
    You are sick.
    No hon--just evolved.

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  54. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by steyou View Post
    You are sick.
    I don't see the problem with letting someone in the agonizing advanced stages of illness off himself, with a little help from his friends. Think Beatles. It's just a day in the life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steyou View Post
    You are sick.
    you'd beg like a baby if you were sick.

  56. #43
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    Geez
    Helping others is a gift.

  57. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by hnooe View Post
    No hon--just evolved.
    OMC....
    Which community along 30A shall we pillage this evening?....gttbm

  58. #45
    Assisted suicide. Just wait. It is coming.
    It is simply beyond me how you get from a living will to assisted suicide.

    Moreover, I would think that the further to the right that you are, that is the more libertarian you are, the more you would be in favor of a living will, in order to keep your choices your own. Eventually, unless we die suddenly, we may very well find ourselves in the position of other people making these decisions for us. The purpose of a living will is to retain control over end of life care.

    It's also beyond me how anyone can get from a covered benefit to a mandate. Insurance covers all kinds of things people regularly refuse, from mammograms to back surgery to chemotherapy. If we start removing all the covered procedures that some people would object to and refuse for themselves, then eventually there would be nothing left.

    So, one more time folks - a covered benefit is not a mandate. If you don't want the benefit, don't use it. Do your living will yourself, or don't do one at all.

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  60. #46
    ...and it is beyond me why so many are so ill-informed about the Canadian health care program. This piece has some good points IMO:

    A Canadian doctor diagnoses U.S. healthcare - Los Angeles Times
    A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.
    Dwight D. Eisenhower

  61. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by NotDeadYet View Post
    BR, I will try one more time. It is NOT mandated. The new proposed benefit would pay for a consultation once every five years. In other words, you can use the benefit every five years, but not oftener. And, you can use it not at all, if that is your choice.
    If you understood the living will fully and signed a POA, then you might not want any help. On the other hand, if say for instance you developed some complicated illness you didn't anticipate and you wanted some professional help making sure your living will reflects your wishes in these new circumstances, then you might want to use this benefit.
    A covered benefit is not the same thing as a mandate.
    The bill links the every five year end of life discussion to the PRQI initiative. So, no, you do not HAVE to discuss it with patients if you are a primary care doc, but if you don't you get lowered payments on EVERY medicare patient. It may as well be mandated. I have reported your disinformation to flag@whitehouse.gov. The Democratic party must have disemminated their talking points (AKA lies) to their fanatics.

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  63. #48
    If you want good information from the only two physicians in the Senate and their take on the health care reform debate go to:
    Senate Doctors Show - Republican.Senate.Gov

    If you think the reform act is just going to drive up your federal taxes, check out their discussion on the expansion of Medicaid in the bill and how it is an unfunded mandate to the states. The effect will be higher state taxes as well to pay for Medicaid, which is a state program.

  64. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominoes View Post
    The bill links the every five year end of life discussion to the PRQI initiative. So, no, you do not HAVE to discuss it with patients if you are a primary care doc, but if you don't you get lowered payments on EVERY medicare patient. It may as well be mandated. I have reported your disinformation to flag@whitehouse.gov. The Democratic party must have disemminated their talking points (AKA lies) to their fanatics.
    Where can I find this kind of information? Is it something you got as an analysis from a trade group? It's frustrating to have knowledge gaps like this.

  65. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominoes View Post
    The bill links the every five year end of life discussion to the PRQI initiative. So, no, you do not HAVE to discuss it with patients if you are a primary care doc, but if you don't you get lowered payments on EVERY medicare patient. It may as well be mandated.
    Could you provide a link or sourcing so we can have a better understanding of what you are talking about?

    As for the patient mandate idea, the Pulitzer Prize-winning Politifact gave it a pants-on-fire ruling. However it did not address how the end-of-life counseling affects doctors and their reimbursements. Would love to hear more, thanks.

    From Politifact:

    According to the bill, "such consultation shall include the following: An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to; an explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses; an explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy."

    Medicare will cover one session every five years, the legislation states. If a patient becomes very ill in the interim, Medicare will cover additional sessions.

    Jon Keyserling, general counsel and vice president of public policy for the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization, which supports the provision, said the bill doesn't encourage seniors to end their lives, it just allows some important counseling for decisions that take time and consideration.

    "These are very serious conversations," he said. "It needs to be an informative conversation from the medical side and it needs to be thought about carefully by the patient and their families."

    In no way would these sessions be designed to encourage patients to end their lives, said Jim Dau, national spokeman for AARP, a group that represents people over 50 that has lobbied in support of the advanced planning provision.
    PolitiFact | McCaughey claims end-of-life counseling will be required for Medicare patients
    Proud to practice indoctrination
    at least when it comes to the GATOR NATION

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