Tell me if this is not a good idea and why

**Hollibird** · 12-09-2008, 07:39 PM

We know the market is terrible right now... but my husband thinks we should just list the house by owner for what we wanted to make about 3 years ago when things were good. and just see if we get any bites (besides from realtors). For instance - we live in Destiny West. The value has decreased, but had we listed it 3 years ago, we could have asked for at least 900,000 and have wiggle room.

What are the cons by listing it at this price? If anything, I would think the other houses would look like a deal in comparison.

**wrobert** · 12-09-2008, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Hollibird

We know the market is terrible right now... but my husband thinks we should just list the house by owner for what we wanted to make about 3 years ago when things were good. and just see if we get any bites (besides from realtors). For instance - we live in Destiny West. The value has decreased, but had we listed it 3 years ago, we could have asked for at least 900,000 and have wiggle room.

What are the cons by listing it at this price, hoping that someone that doesn't know any different (maybe from out of state or out of the country)? If anything, I would think the other houses would look like a deal in comparison.

Why not sell it to those people you have convinced into making $3900 a month? They should be able to afford it no matter what you are asking.

**Hollibird** · 12-09-2008, 07:52 PM

so I have to give it a try

**traderx** · 12-09-2008, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Hollibird

We know the market is terrible right now... but my husband thinks we should just list the house by owner for what we wanted to make about 3 years ago when things were good. and just see if we get any bites (besides from realtors). For instance - we live in Destiny West. The value has decreased, but had we listed it 3 years ago, we could have asked for at least 900,000 and have wiggle room.

What are the cons by listing it at this price, hoping that someone that doesn't know any different (maybe from out of state or out of the country)? If anything, I would think the other houses would look like a deal in comparison.

The number of people who don't know any better is at an all time low.

**wrobert** · 12-09-2008, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by traderx

The number of people who don't know any better is at an all time low.

If someone can still be successful finding victims for an illegal pyramid scheme I am sure that they could find victims to hose on a house. The problem being finding someone to do the closing that is not going to let the cat out of the bag. All of the fake closing agents have probably moved on to other nefarious schemes.

**traderx** · 12-09-2008, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by wrobert

If someone can still be successful finding victims for an illegal pyramid scheme I am sure that they could find victims to hose on a house. The problem being finding someone to do the closing that is not going to let the cat out of the bag. All of the fake closing agents have probably moved on to other nefarious schemes.

Appraiser.

**TooFarTampa** · 12-09-2008, 08:28 PM

So this mythical buyer, assuming he or she paid cash and did not need an appraisal, would immediately be $200K or $300K underwater? Is your place that special that it would not matter?

Seriously -- would you wish this on your worst enemy? Or are you just trying to transfer your misery to someone else? Because that's pretty much what you are talking about, unless you have some priceless water view that nobody else has.

**Smiling JOe** · 12-09-2008, 08:53 PM

hollibird, aren't you a Realtor?

**fisher** · 12-09-2008, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by traderx

The number of people who don't know any better is at an all time low.

...but they are still out there. How about the 1200 square foot, Joe built

cottage in Phase I of Watercolor that just sold for $1.05 million or just over $800 per square foot.

**scooterbug44** · 12-09-2008, 09:26 PM

Words escape me.

Do you have any motivation to sell your house other than the possibility that you might find a stupid buyer to screw over?

Good thing you live at the beach, you'll be quasi used to the heat when your karma catches up with you.

P.S. One would think someone who could ACTUALLY turn $6 into $3900 every month wouldn't need to dabble in real estate grifting.

**Danny Burns** · 12-09-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hollibird

We know the market is terrible right now... but my husband thinks we should just list the house by owner for what we wanted to make about 3 years ago when things were good. and just see if we get any bites (besides from realtors). For instance - we live in Destiny West. The value has decreased, but had we listed it 3 years ago, we could have asked for at least 900,000 and have wiggle room.

What are the cons by listing it at this price, hoping that someone that doesn't know any different (maybe from out of state or out of the country)? If anything, I would think the other houses would look like a deal in comparison.
Tell me if this is not a good idea and why

Because dishonesty usually comes back to bite you in the @$$. Tell me if you think attempting to cheat someone is a good idea and why?

**30ABandMan** · 12-09-2008, 10:11 PM

Can't believe someone would even ask that...

**Danny Burns** · 12-09-2008, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Hollibird

For $6 per month, you could start pulling in $3900 every month. It's that simple.

Am I having one of those flashbacks they promised me back in the sixties? I thought pyramid schemes went out in the seventies.

**Bobby J** · 12-09-2008, 10:35 PM

I am confused why people think that buyers from other areas or out of the country will pay more for something then what it is worth. They will do the comps, look around, etc. Listing or selling right now too high is simply telling the public what your home is not worth. Each day, each month, each year on the market is another day your value drops by having a number claiming a value that is not reality based. If you can not compete in the market look at plan B.

**positive1** · 12-10-2008, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by analogman

Because dishonesty usually comes back to bite you in the @$$. Tell me if you think attempting to cheat someone is a good idea and why?

Come on now� Everybody has witnessed how ordinary items can have immense value to any one individual person, hence the expression "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". If you happen to find a buyer for your house at this rate it's because it was totally worth it to them and everybody associated with a this transaction is a winner. You can't win if you don't play!

**SWGB** · 12-10-2008, 01:12 AM

If someone is willing to pay that price when they could probably have the same or very close equivalent then go for it.

However I do think that kurt should remove that siggy line. That's just flat out a scam.

**kurt** · 12-10-2008, 06:38 AM

done

**Smiling JOe** · 12-10-2008, 07:07 AM

I believe the downside was asked about. The downside of listing your house 60% higher than possible selling price is that you unneccessarily confusing buyers and adding fake inventory to the market. Also, today's buyers are fairly educated, and well-researched. Your reputation will be attached to your listing, and people may base their thoughts of you on your listing, good or bad. As mentioned, it's in the eye of the beholder. One last thing is that you may influence other people in your neighborhood, who may think that you know something they don't, and they also over-price their listings.

If you are still licensed as a Florida Realtor, I'd be very careful about your statements. Realtors have a Code of Ethics by which we are governed.

**Joe Mammy** · 12-10-2008, 07:33 AM

Buyers today are very informed and savvy. They all have one thing in common- they don't want a deal, they must have a steal!

Sellers with the mentality that a rube will come along and give them what they want are seriously deluding themselves.

**Danny Burns** · 12-10-2008, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by positive1

Come on now… Everybody has witnessed how ordinary items can have immense value to any one individual person, hence the expression "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". If you happen to find a buyer for your house at this rate it's because it was totally worth it to them and everybody associated with a this transaction is a winner. You can't win if you don't play!

Come on now? With housing prices down 20-30% across the board (including here in our area), no house is worth what it was 3 years ago. Comps are easily available and no honest appraiser will value a house at the figure it was valued 3 years ago. Ask any reputable realtor.

Have you had your house appraised lately? You might be surprised by its current value. I know I was when I had mine appraised for the first time in 2 years, just recently. I've made improvements and it still went down in value 15%.

I don't think you'll find many who will "play" if we all start acting like the poster of this thread. No one "wins" if you play this game. Reality hurts, but it's still real. I still say complete disclosure and honesty are the best policy...and it's the law. That's my story and I'm still sticking to it!

I love your dog though.

**traderx** · 12-10-2008, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by fisher

...but they are still out there. How about the 1200 square foot, Joe built

cottage in Phase I of Watercolor that just sold for $1.05 million or just over $800 per square foot.

Really? On the beach?

**tistheseason** · 12-10-2008, 09:34 AM

I have to say, I'm speachless by the question posed. . . .truly speachless. . .

**Johnrudy** · 12-10-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by tistheseason

I have to say, I'm speachless by the question posed. . . .truly speachless. . .

By the way the thread is titled seems to say the OP must know this is dishonest...

**Smiling JOe** · 12-10-2008, 11:08 AM

Let's back up a moment. I read a few people hinting that a persons decision to over-price their home is dishonest and illegal. For the record, it is not illegal to over-price your home, just as it isn't illegal to overcharge for a haircut. It just doesn't bring in business, and often will repulse anyone from buying, or trusting that you know anything about pricing real estate. Dishonest? Really? I don't know that I fully agree with overpricing being dishonest, and if it is, isn't every listing which doesn't sell today, over-priced, and therefore "dishonest?"

**Johnrudy** · 12-10-2008, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Smiling JOe

Let's back up a moment. I read a few people hinting that a persons decision to over-price their home is dishonest and illegal. For the record, it is not illegal to over-price your home, just as it isn't illegal to overcharge for a haircut. It just doesn't bring in business, and often will repulse anyone from buying, or trusting that you know anything about pricing real estate. Dishonest? Really? I don't know that I fully agree with overpricing being dishonest, and if it is, isn't every listing which doesn't sell today, over-priced, and therefore "dishonest?"

good point. Hadn't thought of it that way.

**scooterbug44** · 12-10-2008, 11:35 AM

This isn't a case of someone pricing their home above market value because of sentiment, a mistaken idea about its value, or a sellers market, this is someone who is specifically pricing their home far above what they know is its value in the explicitly stated hope that they can fool someone into buying it.

That's dishonest to me.

**JoshMclean** · 12-10-2008, 11:53 AM

I agree with SJ here. Everyone who is overpriced right now is hoping that someone will come in, fall in love, and be willing to pay over market value for that property. There are plenty of sellers out there that don't need to sell and have unrealistic prices on their property. They always say it just takes one.
Of course it doesn't help my situation, but they're free to do what they want.

**Smiling JOe** · 12-10-2008, 11:57 AM

scooter, what is the price point where a property goes from being dishonest in its price to honest? The honest price is the price at which buyers and sellers agree upon and make an exchange, so back to my point, all listings which are not selling would be dishonest, or so it sounds. What is the difference between listing a property, leaving wiggle room? I saw a lot which recently sold for $200K, which was listed at $300K. Was the seller dishonest?

Let's get away from real estate for a moment. Isn't price all about marketing and showing how a property is worth a particular amount? Is a bar of Dove soap really worth $4 a bar? Yes, but only because buyers are willing to pay that much for it. They perceive enough value in it to justify the price.

That said, I agree with Joe Mammy regarding a good and honest appraiser not valuing the property enough to make that sale close.

**traderx** · 12-10-2008, 11:59 AM

The over pricing practice really turns off would-be buyers. I looked at the market in the summer and again this fall and decided that I will rent when I move to SoWal. No interest in trying to catch a falling knife. My conclusion is that many sellers, if not most, are not that motivated to sell. I believe there is still a reckoning process that the SoWal market needs to go through.

**JoshMclean** · 12-10-2008, 12:02 PM

Here is a quote from my website that I wrote a while back. Thought it fits this situation pretty well.

"The Price" With the large inventory to choose from you must price your home to sell. The price is the most important factor in selling a home in any market and you must price it correctly the first time. The idea of pricing a home high and hoping for a buyer to magically appear does not work. Price reduction after price reduction will only hurt the potential sale of your property in the long run. The first 8 weeks on the market is the most critical time for your property. After much time on the market and several price reductions your property becomes stale. Potential buyers begin to wonder if there is anything wrong with the property and why no one has purchased it. Let me show you what your property will bring in this market. I will show you what has sold, what is currently for sale, and what could not sell and at what price. I will give you a total evaluation on the property and give my professional suggestion for a listing price.

**Jdarg** · 12-10-2008, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Hollibird

What are the cons by listing it at this price, hoping that someone that doesn't know any different (maybe from out of state or out of the country)? If anything, I would think the other houses would look like a deal in comparison.

I think it is this statement that makes the whole thing just icky. The same icky feeling I get from multi-level marketing.

**scooterbug44** · 12-10-2008, 12:13 PM

It's not the price point as much as the motivation. You can argue semantics and varying levels, but Hollibird's and my ideas of honesty/right & wrong will still be very different.

**Bobby J** · 12-10-2008, 12:14 PM

My shirt sums it up. "Its all about Price" I wear this when I deliver offers to the selling agent!

**Smiling JOe** · 12-10-2008, 12:25 PM

scooter, I understand why people would feel that it is "dishonest," but everything that is for sale has a price at which it will and will not sell. Intent means a lot, and trying to pass on an over-priced egg to someone else will eventually come back to bite you in the booty. I see most every industry in the same way, except many of those industries actually convince others to spend more, for inferior products. It is called marketing.

**Danny Burns** · 12-10-2008, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Smiling JOe

scooter, I understand why people would feel that it is "dishonest," but everything that is for sale has a price at which it will and will not sell. Intent means a lot, and trying to pass on an over-priced egg to someone else will eventually come back to bite you in the booty. I see most every industry in the same way, except many of those industries actually convince others to spend more, for inferior products. It is called marketing.

And in my eyes it's dishonest (at best), legal or not. That's why I mute the TV when commercials come on...that and the noise. Maybe it would be a better world if this kind of practice would go away. Wishful thinking?...maybe.

Read my signature line. Call me an idealistic, naive man, but it works for me. The golden rule comes to mind, as well. Maybe more should try it and see what the world could become.

**wrobert** · 12-10-2008, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Smiling JOe

scooter, what is the price point where a property goes from being dishonest in its price to honest? The honest price is the price at which buyers and sellers agree upon and make an exchange, so back to my point, all listings which are not selling would be dishonest, or so it sounds. What is the difference between listing a property, leaving wiggle room? I saw a lot which recently sold for $200K, which was listed at $300K. Was the seller dishonest?

Let's get away from real estate for a moment. Isn't price all about marketing and showing how a property is worth a particular amount? Is a bar of Dove soap really worth $4 a bar? Yes, but only because buyers are willing to pay that much for it. They perceive enough value in it to justify the price.

That said, I agree with Joe Mammy regarding a good and honest appraiser not valuing the property enough to make that sale close.

If homes are being priced so far over the market price in some misguided attempt to make an excessive profit, would that not be price gouging? Or is there some difference between a home and a gallon of gas I am missing?

**tistheseason** · 12-10-2008, 03:03 PM

What I find shocking is not that she would over price her house or that she is looking for a uninformed sucker to purchase it. . . .it's that she typed it in a public forum. I not surprised people think like this, I'm surprised that someone would readily admit it. Especially when the same person has posted another thread looking for clients. Not someone I'd want to get into a business relationship with -- I'd always be thinking that they were trying to take advantage of me.

**Smiling JOe** · 12-10-2008, 03:30 PM

wrobert, maybe you could report it to the State as price gouging, but trying to prove that would be difficult at best if the seller wasn't making a profit. As I stated, over-priced properties take care of themselves -- buyers avoid them. If a buyer doesn't avoid it, and purchases the property, there is perceived value to justify the price paid, which may, or may not be the asking price.

Again, at what price does anything become "over-priced?" I beg the answer of you. My personal answer is that a property is over-priced when there is no buyer at that price point.

Regardless of the names you want to call buyers, eg - "sucker," most everyone who purchases a property for investment, wants to find a buyer who is willing to pay more than the sellers paid. Same with stocks. Calling them a sucker doesn't make a person less honorable, does it?

**wrobert** · 12-10-2008, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Smiling JOe

wrobert, maybe you could report it to the State as price gouging, but trying to prove that would be difficult at best

I won't be reporting it to the State because I do not believe there is such a thing as price gouging. Like someone said earlier, pricing the property however high the owner wants is their business, asking if it would be wrong in a public forum is what I find so disconcerting. I will go and meditate on it a bit and may change my mind later.

**scooterbug44** · 12-10-2008, 05:19 PM

The problem will take care of itself. Who is now going to buy from this person w/o thinking they are being taken advantage of?

There are currently more than 600 views on this thread, which means hundreds of people who live in or visit Sowal now associate this person with dishonesty/trying to cheat people - definitely not good for business!

**Hollibird** · 12-10-2008, 05:49 PM

You totally didn't get what I was saying. I am not trying to be dishonest. We just don't want to get screwed on the money we put into our house. Maybe someone will see it and love it. and pay the asking price. thats it. no more.

**30ashopper** · 12-10-2008, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Hollibird

You totally didn't get what I was saying. I am not trying to be dishonest. We just don't want to get screwed on the money we put into our house. Maybe someone will see it and love it. and pay the asking price. thats it. no more.

You could list it, but looking at the prices in there you're going to have to get pretty lucky to sell at that price. If you do get an offer, you'll most likely get a low ball more in line with value. Then all you've done is waste time and effort keeping the place in shape for showings.

There are other options depending on what your situation is. What type of loan you used, do you live there full time, etc.. A possibility would be to rent it out to cover some costs and sell in 5 to 10 years. Depends on how much interest you've paid / are paying. If it's paid off you're in the best shape. Average 20K-35K in rental income over 5 years plus some appreciation might bring you up closer to break even, plus you get to stay there in the off season. Selling right now at the price people are likely to offer though sounds like you're assured a major loss. However, loosing 200K today might be better than being bled dry over the next three years by interest on the loan.

Overall, I'd just suggest running all the numbers on all the options, be very precise and conservative in your estimates, and pick the option that saves you the most income long term. Try to be practical, not emotional. That's your best bet.

added - if you have a loan, don't forget about the option of a short sale, talk to your lender.

**30ashopper** · 12-10-2008, 07:04 PM

(a loan modification might be possible too if you have debt on the house. lots of options out there to consider..)

**SHELLY** · 12-10-2008, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Joe Mammy

Sellers with the mentality that a rube will come along and give them what they want are seriously deluding themselves.

...and the pendulum swings--right Joe?

.

**AAbsolute** · 12-10-2008, 07:10 PM

[quote=Hollibird;508215] We just don't want to get screwed on the money we put into our house.

**SHELLY** · 12-10-2008, 07:14 PM

Personally, I think Hollibird is saying out loud what a lot of folks who bought during the frenzy--and currently have their properties listed on the market--are thinking. What she is planning on doing is not a crime...but neither is it going to get her house sold.

Don't these people "get it" that the RE frenzy was a fuke, is over, kaput, never coming back in their lifetime?...apparently not.

.

**30ashopper** · 12-10-2008, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by SHELLY

Personally, I think Hollibird is saying out loud what a lot of folks who bought during the frenzy--and currently have their properties listed on the market--are thinking. What she is planning on doing is not a crime...but neither is it going to get her house sold.

Don't these people "get it" that the RE frenzy was a fuke, is over, kaput, never coming back in their lifetime?...apparently not.

.

No, I see this in all sort of "out of whack" active listings. The scary thing is, folks hoping for the best often find themselves in worse situations down the road as prices continue to fall. (..and imho will continue to do so for at least another two years or so.)

**TooFarTampa** · 12-10-2008, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Hollibird

You totally didn't get what I was saying. I am not trying to be dishonest. We just don't want to get screwed on the money we put into our house. Maybe someone will see it and love it. and pay the asking price. thats it. no more.

Yet ... if you sell it for more than you admit it is worth according to the current market, someone else is "getting screwed on the money they put into" it. The only exception would be the type of property that is so unique and spectacular that paying over market value would not be unusual. If you think there is a concrete reason that someone will see your house and love it more than your neighbors', then go for it.

Perspective helps. It is not about you. It is about the market as a whole, and how to live with what you got.

30ashopper gives some great advice.

Incidentally, I don't think there are many people (anyone?) who would pony up whatever your asking price is in this market. They'd have to have cash, for starters, and be willing to sink it into real estate.

**Camp Creek Kid** · 12-11-2008, 12:44 PM

You can put a FSBO sign up and "ask" as much as you want, but that doesn't mean that you will have anyone look at your house let alone make an offer. Buyers right now are few and far between and they have done their research and know what property values are. In the very unlikely even that you did get an offer for the amount you are asking, there is no way that the buyers would get financing after the bank does an appraisal and your property comes in at 50% of what you are asking.

I'm not being negative, just realistic.

**TNJed** · 12-11-2008, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by TooFarTampa

Yet ... if you sell it for more than you admit it is worth according to the current market, someone else is "getting screwed on the money they put into" it.

stock market traders call this the "bigger fool theory."

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory[/ame]

Math really is the universal language. It's amazing how the practices in the stock market correlate with repeating patterns found everywhere else. In one word, fractals.