Thread: Vote No on 2
10-25-2008, 08:39 AM #1
Vote No on 2
1. Vote No On 2 because it Takes Away Benefits
Amendment 2 would take away important family protections, including health care insurance and hospital visitation from all unmarried Floridians. The Florida Legislature's own analysis warns that this amendment: "... could place (domestic partnerships) at risk of losing specified rights and benefits, such as those related to health insurance."
2. Vote No On 2 because it Hurts Seniors
Amendment 2 would hurt Florida's large senior population by taking away partnership rights of widowed seniors, like health care and end-of-life decision making. The AARP and Florida Alliance for Retired Americans have spoken out against these kinds of dangerous amendments.
3. Vote No On 2 because EVERY Major Florida Daily Newspaper is Opposed to Amendment 2 - Newspapers across the political spectrum whose editorial boards rarely agree on politics have come out strongly opposed to Amendment 2. (read them)
4. Vote No On 2 because Discrimination Doesn't Belong in the Florida Constitution
The constitution should protect all of us from government intrusion and discrimination. This amendment would embed discrimination against unmarried people into our state constitution for generations to come.
5. Vote No On 2 because Hurting Families Doesn't "Protect" Anyone's Marriage
Despite the name "Marriage Protection Amendment" this measure does NOTHING to help curb the divorce rate or strengthen marriage. It only scapegoats unmarried partners and strips them of vital health benefits.
6. Vote No On 2 because it Permits Massive Government Intrusion
Amendment 2 puts the government where it doesn't belong - regulating the personal relationships of Floridians. Government should not make it harder for people to take care of their loved ones.
7. Vote No On 2 and Avoid Hiring Expensive Lawyers
Amendment 2 could force unmarried Floridians to hire expensive private lawyers just to be able to see each other in the hospital.
8. Vote No On 2 because It's Already Hard Enough for Families
At a time of economic crisis the last thing we should do is put government-enforced obstacles, big legal fees and more red tape in the way of people getting access to vital health care and family protections.
9. Vote No On 2 because Florida is Better Than This
When Florida voters understand the real harm to real people the Amendment will cause, they will vote no. Everyday more and more Floridians are standing up to this divisive, harmful amendment. The Fairness for All Families' Vote No On 2 campaign consists of over 260 civic, faith, and social justice groups working together to protect Florida's families. Help spread the word. Volunteer and donate today.
10. Vote No On 2 because It Harms All of Us
People have already lost benefits in states that have passed similar measures. In Michigan, health insurance for domestic partners were repealed at every state university that offered them. In Kentucky, amendment backers had promised they were only "banning gay marriage". Now they are working to eliminate domestic partner benefits for state and university employees. In Ohio, justice for domestic violence victims was impeded because lower courts ruled that their "marriage" amendment" prohibited applying domestic violence laws to unmarried couples.
10-25-2008, 08:53 AM #2
It is a hateful and unnecessary amendment.
I like #9- because I hope Florida can show me it IS better than this.
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10-25-2008, 09:55 AM #3
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10-25-2008, 10:33 AM #4
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10-25-2008, 12:51 PM #5
10-25-2008, 04:17 PM #6
God has nothing to do with this amendment. God would be alot stricter. This is about maintaining a institution that is a basic building block of civilized society. Nothing more or less.
I really love "every major newspaper is against it" that would seal my yes vote even if I knew nothing about it.
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10-25-2008, 06:03 PM #7
Wow -- God has alot to do with it. Read the Bible
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10-25-2008, 06:04 PM #8
Oh Crap I voted early and I think I voted YES--SORRY MY BAD
10-27-2008, 07:36 PM #9
Stop trying to force everyone to accept your alternative lifestyle. No one really cares about your personal life, so keep it out of ours. This isn't an issue about money or benefits, if you are so concerned about all of that then you would vote Republican because we have realistic views on free markets that produce jobs which create capital and supply benefits to people. This is about breaking down America's Judeo-Christian values that we were founded on and turning them into your beloved Marxist dream. If you really want to be married, do a civil union and call it a wedding.
10-27-2008, 08:11 PM #10
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10-27-2008, 09:25 PM #11
10-27-2008, 10:01 PM #12
Last edited by John R; 10-27-2008 at 10:07 PM. Reason: r
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10-27-2008, 10:05 PM #13
10-27-2008, 10:07 PM #14
No on two--keep the wedding business thriving in South Walton!
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10-28-2008, 07:50 AM #16
10-28-2008, 11:06 AM #17
Being ancient, uninformed on some issues and computers, I don't get the "Oh Snap".I think of government as the Mafia without the moral authority or predictability. Ron Hart
10-28-2008, 11:12 AM #18
10-28-2008, 11:49 AM #19
Considering the subject of Amendment #2 , the snap thing made me think of the 'Men on Film' sketches from In Living Color
Amendment #2 clearly would get two snaps down from those critics.
10-28-2008, 01:07 PM #20
I'm just curious how many laws the "conservatives" need to keep their marriages "safe"? It seems to me that the ones who need a law to tell them how their marriage should be defined probably have a habit of straying outside of those god given boundaries.
10-28-2008, 01:24 PM #21
IMO,a family is who resides in a home, has nothing to do with what others outside that home believe . To each his own.
10-29-2008, 06:40 PM #22
10-29-2008, 08:48 PM #23
Vote Yes on #2 - Here is why. Like it or not and brace your self fans of the ACLU.......... The United States of America was founded by protestant christians on protestent christian values. LIKE IT OR NOT THAT IS A FACT. DONT LIKE IT GET OUT! Just leave my christian values ( yes values ) alone. Marrage is between a Man and a Woman and comes in no other form. Not between Man and Beast, Man and Tree or anything else. That being said if a couple feels that a domestic partnership is in order, fine what ever. But do not steal and change the very definition of Marriage. How dare those of you threaten the worldly things we stand to lose ( such as funding) if we dont do what is moraly correct. Here is a little note for those of you, GOD will bless us for standing up for what is Morally correct. I dont need mans blessing. Man is beneath GOD and I seek not his approval. If you want to live in sin....... do it that is your choice. But do not force me to accept which I know is wrong with every moral fiber of my being by changing the definition of Marriage. The far left liberals already changed the definition of "choice" it used to be called Murder. I am not anti-gay and I understand that being gay is no more of a sin than anything other one that I can think of. But I will not let this country become a GODless wasteland like much of Europe has become today. Just look at how were were blessed when this country was on the path of rightousness. We are loosing our morals and our blessings as a result. Stand up for your Morals and vote Yes on #2 and God will pour his blessings on the entire state of Florida. Remember Sodom and Gamora!!!!!!!
10-29-2008, 08:57 PM #24
10-29-2008, 08:59 PM #25
Swampfox, rest assured, I have voted no on 2 and so has every rational person I know. And guess what? I have no intention of leaving my country because of your antiquated beliefs. Don't look now but women are priests. how does that fit into your lofty system of righteousness? I'm surprised you're still here. Can we look forward to you exiting the country if 2 doesn't pass, as it shouldn't? I'm praying for you.
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10-29-2008, 09:13 PM #26
10-29-2008, 09:15 PM #27
there you go
I dint turn anything into hate. I DONT HATE GAY PEOPLE I LOVE THEM. But I do hate the sin. And why would I be bothered by what other christian folks dont like? Because if they pray and read then they know deep down that my setiments on here are correct. I would be concerned though, if I was offensive to GOD.
Last edited by swampfox; 10-29-2008 at 09:29 PM.
10-29-2008, 09:55 PM #29
Polls I've seen on prop #2 say it's got about 54-55% support with a 60% supermajority needed to pass.
As for the whole America as a Christian nation line and how it relates to marriage, I grew up Catholic. I'm officially rather lapsed these days but still hold a number of the Church's values. And part of that is that marriage should be a really big deal that you go into with the intent in all your heart that it's going to be 'til death, and how a lot of Protestant denominations seem to take the concept of divorce too lightly. (I'm not talking about divorce because of abuse or infidelity but the times when it's like 'we just got kind of bored with each other')
But do I want to force my view of sacramental marriage down other people's throats? Definitely not. (I just wish people would really think about what marriage is supposed to be before they get into it)
As far as I'm concerned, let the churches, mosques, synagogues, sacred circles, etc. handle the sacramental side of marriage, and let the government handle the civil and legal side of domestic partnerships. And I'm all for same-sex domestic partnerships because it seems like a basic fairness issue. I also think that the same sex couples out there getting married or joining together in civil unions right now (depending on the state) have also in most cases put a lot more thought into 'making it official' and what it means than what a lot of straight couple do. When they show the clip of a bride and a bride or a groom and a groom that are finally making it official after being together for 30+ years, it's like 'yeah, that's what being a committed couple is all about'
10-29-2008, 10:23 PM #30
I agree 100% on the issue of divorce. But your suggestion that changing the definition of Marriage some how stregnthens it is ludicris. To allow same sex marriages just makes the institution as a whole weaker. It waters down and diludes that which is sacred and set forth by GOD. So to redefine it is to say that you know better then GOD. Do you really Know better then GOD? I do understand a mans or a womans need for domestic partnership. And the love one must suffer for another, when it comes to legal issues alot of hurt is suffered by many people regaurding this issue. So lets just call it domestic partnership and not marriage. That is not to say, I agree with the sin of homosexuality. That is to say that something needs to be in place to ease the burdons of those that share their lives with another. But it cant be called marriage becuase doing so is violating my constitutional rights to freedom of religion because I am being forced by law to accept a defination of marriage that I know to be UN-GODLY.
Dictionary.com on Marriage:
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6 dictionary results for: marriage
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share Thismar⋅riage
/ˈmærɪdʒ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mar-ij] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.2.the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage. 3.the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage. 4.a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial marriage; homosexual marriage. 5.any close or intimate association or union: the marriage of words and music in a hit song. 6.a formal agreement between two companies or enterprises to combine operations, resources, etc., for mutual benefit; merger.7.a blending or matching of different elements or components: The new lipstick is a beautiful marriage of fragrance and texture. 8.Cards. a meld of the king and queen of a suit, as in pinochle. Compare royal marriage.9.a piece of antique furniture assembled from components of two or more authentic pieces.10.Obsolete. the formal declaration or contract by which act a man and a woman join in wedlock
10-29-2008, 11:12 PM #31
And you seem so confident that you know what God wants, which comes across as more than a bit of the sin of Pride. At the end of the day, I feel like all we can really say is that we can never say with 100% certainty that we're getting it right. We're imperfect finite vessels trying to explain the perfect and infinite and something is inherently going to get lost in translation.
10-29-2008, 11:46 PM #32
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This proposed amendment is vulgar on many levels; first Florida already has several laws on the books preventing same sex marriages. Secondly this amendment includes a clause that prevents if from being overturned judicially. It is more or less an attempt to manipulate the religious conservatives into showing up at the polls in one of the last remaining swing states; one that holds 27 electoral votes. It will abridge the rights of heterosexual couples in common law relationships as well.
The First Amendment of the US Constitution states; "Congress will make no law respecting the establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof." This was our fore fathers way of granting us freedom of religion and separation of church and state to the vast extent.
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and the state in which they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of the citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of the law; nor deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
That is the 14th Amendment and it pretty much guarantees every citizen equality under the constitution regardless of the state in which they reside.
The whole issue of marriage versus civil unions is another atrocity, and an argument of semantics. It is the evangelical religious right laying claim through legislation that they own the rights to the word marriage. Many people whom oppose same sex marriage seem perfectly okay with civil unions, accepting the act, but only by a different name; a rose is a rose. The etymology of the word marriage finds its origins in the 14th century as derivative of the Middle English marriage, which can be traced from Anglo-French marier to marry and in turn to the Latin word maritus meaning tied or trained together.
This is not an issue of all marriages being recognized by the church. It is one of having all marriages recognized legally by the state in order for all citizens to enjoy their guaranteed constitutional equality and right to be tied together in the eyes of the government regardless of gender. And while the Bible may have been translated into Latin, it was not originally recorded in it and owns no exclusivity to the words maritus or marriage.
Amendment two is unconstitutional.
No matter where our beliefs lie we are all human, we are all here together, and acceptance of each other is the true road to peace.
10-30-2008, 05:23 AM #33
If a rose is a rose......
Then why is there this big fight to re-define Marriage? Is a certian group of people tring to get approval for their chosen lifestyle? Maybe they realize that GOD doesnt approve so they seek mans approval, by jamming it down our throats. With parades and citcoms, and "awareness" You fail to accept that when our fore fathers declaired seperation of church and state, the point was to prevent the state from prohibiting the establishment of christianity. The ACLU is the orginization that is unconstitutional, by steping into in our court rooms and forcing removal of the 10 commandments from the walls with in. Basic Law 101 will support the FACT that our laws are derived from the BIBLE. That being said Marriage is also BIBLICAL like it or not. One Man and One Woman. Always has been, since the new testiment and always will be. If our fore fathers were so intent on keeping GOD out of the government then why was he placed all over our money? This country was formed by Protestants... FACT. Seems to me that many people wish to avoid accountability for the way they live so they wage war on GOD and on christian values (marriage a biblical principal) being at the core. Well the further this country moves away from GOD and good values and morals the worse off we will be. If you want to be gay.... fine be gay. But do not steal a biblical principle which I as a christian hold dear to my heart and twist it into something foul and evil to suit yourself. Take a new word for that.......... (civil union) Marriage is annointed for one man and one woman by GOD. Civil Union has nothing to do with GOD and I assure you he wants no part in it ...........so clearly a rose is not a rose.
Last edited by swampfox; 10-30-2008 at 05:43 AM.
10-30-2008, 07:15 AM #34
Live and let live.
I'm pretty sure people don't want to be gay. They are gay or are not gay. Possibly you should confer with the Rev. Ted Haggard for some enlightenment.
10-30-2008, 08:19 AM #35
As for that whole one man, one woman thing, the traditional Mormons, who consider themselves to be Christians, would beg to differ on that.
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10-30-2008, 12:01 PM #36
Can you explain to me exactly how you will be personally affected if this amendment isn't passed?
10-30-2008, 02:09 PM #37
Sure can, How am I do explain the true meaning of marriage to my children when it is being diluted and changed to fit the life style of a select few in society. How can I as a christian man with true values and absolute faith stand by and allow those who wish to live in sin destroy a holy institution that was set aside by GOD for one man and one woman. YOU PEOPLE (the far left) I can say that im democrat, are so intent on getting GOD out of the schools, so now my child is being taught "you can do what ever you want as long as it dosent affect anyone else". The difference - I raise my boy differently. You cant do what ever you want we are to be held accountable for everything we do. I wanted to have a bible class in school but thats been taken away. I feel as though it should be an elective, just the same as a jewish or muslim class. The ACLU is waging war on christianity tring to force the Boy Scouts to remove GOD from their pledge. I will not stand by and let this country become a GODless wastland. Let me tell you this, the further we move away from GOD the more we will suffer as a country. He will hold us accountable. You better pick what side you are on because if you are not for him you are .............. It makes me so sad for everyone when they choose to live as they see fit, rather then live for GOD. But that is what is said will happen in the end isnt it. This country / world will continue to move in a worldly dirrection, but It doesnt say we as christian have to accept the sick distorted worldly ways as truth.
GAY MARRIAGE IS ONE BIG CUP OF WORLDLY POISON WE ALL HAVE TO DRINK OF IF YOU VOTE NO 2
10-30-2008, 02:33 PM #38
Your post is incredibly offensive and rude.
Thankfully not every Christian believes as you do, some actually follow the teachings of CHRIST!Basically, I'm just passing through on my way to Australia.
10-30-2008, 03:21 PM #39
What would you do if one of your children grew up and came out?
10-30-2008, 03:49 PM #40
10-30-2008, 04:44 PM #41
For the record and general amusement, God appears zero times in the US Constitution. When asked about it, Alexander Hamilton joked, "we forgot". Hamilton was all about the nitty gritty, forgot nothing and was probably one of the more traditionally religious of the founding fathers. The tyranny of 51% weighed heavy on their minds and much was done to create legal barriers dividing church and state.
A number of the founding fathers were deists. Browse the Jeffersonian Bible for fun someday."First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl." - Marion Barry, Mayor of Washington, DC
10-30-2008, 08:28 PM #42
Offensive and rude? How so? The teachings of Christ? Were did Christ say two men or to women could unite in marriage. I remember in Mathew Christ spoke about marrige concerning it being between a man and a woman. I want eveyone to understand my closest brother out of three, the one that I hold nearest and dearest to my heart struggles with hososexuality. He is an awsome man, yet he was in agreeance that a marriage is between a man and a woman, and that civil union is an appropiate term for gay marriage. I teach my son Love and Respect 1st Cor chapter13. If you found my post offensive and rude Im sorry but I dont care what most christians in YOUR opinion feel. I care what GOD feels, after all he is the one that you and I will answer to.Who do you answer to most christians or GOD? I am not against homosexuals I stand against sin. Isnt that one of the responsibilities as a christian, to love oneanother and stand up against that which is not of GOD!!!!! If I found truth to be offensive then I would search my heart and find out why. Oh yea a little side note....... the Pharasee's also found the teachings of Christ offensive and rude its all over the the new testiment, have a look and find out what the teachings of Christ really are. In saying that I am NOT compairing myself or my posts to Christ. I like evryone else, have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of GOD, which is why we need Christ.
Last edited by swampfox; 10-30-2008 at 08:40 PM.
10-30-2008, 08:31 PM #43
10-30-2008, 08:34 PM #44
Judge not and carry on... it's easier for all of us."First, it was not a strip bar, it was an erotic club. And second, what can I say? I'm a night owl." - Marion Barry, Mayor of Washington, DC
10-30-2008, 11:17 PM #45
Secondly you state that you stand up against that which is not of God, guess what I was made just the same as you.
Perhaps all the preaching and ranting is just a subconcious way of dealing with something you have in common with your brother?
10-31-2008, 05:51 AM #46
One of my brothers did commit suicide. Secondly your issues with sexuality are
yours to be worked out between you and GOD. I am not one to judge I have sin in my life that I struggle with, that is just as bad but I'm not tring to make justify my sin and make it acceptable. I pray about it and hold myself accountable. Why would I need a subconcious wasy to deal with my brother? I love him just the way he is. If I was to hate him or hold him in a lesser light of love him less due to his orientation I would be a hypocrit. Did'nt Jesus associate with tax collectors and prostitutes? He didnt with hold his love from them. My brother is who he is. My issue again is taking something sacred set aside by the LORD for one man and one woman (says this thoughout the BIBLE) and redefining it into sinful terms. It seems to me that when someone disagrees with you on this issue of admendment #2 you try to say that they have issues with the homosexuals and hate. Ive said it many times I have no issues with homosexuals that is between them and GOD. But to attack that which GOD has annointed and twist it into something that he does not support it is my responsibility as a Christian to stand against that.
Now to the eating clean and unclean food. Didnt you ever read where Jesus says to us not to question which foods are clean or unclean. If someone whishes to eat or not eat something in honor of GOD it is not our place to attack them. He also spoke on the issue of which day was to be considered the true sabbath day, and used the same.
additionally in MARK 7 : 18 "you are no more intelligent than the others," JESUS said to them " Nothing that goes into a person from the outside can really make him unclean, 19. because it does not go into his heart but into his stomach and then out of the body." (in saying this Jesus is declairing that all foods are fit to be eaten)
1cor chapt 7 has alot to say about Mariage
col 3 : 5 you ,Just be put to death, thenn earthly desires at work in you, such as sexual immorality, indecency, lust,evil passions and greed. Becuase of such things GODS anger will come upon those who do not obey him.
leviticus 18 :22 No man is to have sexual relations with another Man: GOD hates that. ( meaning that GOD hates that sin, he still loves you!)
If we change GODS law on Marriage then we will bring down GODS wrath upon us all. So take a word that is not GODLY for your sinful desires (civil union) and get the same rights as a married person, but do not take that which GOD has made sacred, and turn it into sin. In changing a word that has been sacred to Christians is violating the seperation of church and state and forcing us to reconize Marriage in an UNGODLY light. So use a term that is not sacred, That is all I can ask for.
It is not my place to hate you for the way you choose to live, but it is my place to stand up for my faith which is coming under attack. How dare you try to paint me as a hypocrit with out knowing what JESUS says about unclean food. But yes I am a sinner same as you the difference is Im willing to accept the things I have done as sin and asked for forgivness and try really hard not to sin, and thanks to the blood shed by Jesus I am redeemed.
Last edited by swampfox; 10-31-2008 at 06:11 AM.
10-31-2008, 11:11 AM #47
Okay, so you'd follow other scripture to the T then?
where men were required to take a dead brother's wife and produce heirs for him - Deut. 25:5-6; Gen. 38:8
How many wives do you have? and God-ordained polygamy (Exodus 21:10-11; 2 Sam. 12:7-8)
Is this the sort of literal interpretation you're looking for? women were forced to marry their rapists (Deut. 22:28-29).
As for yelling Sodom and Gomorrah, perhaps you should read the passage. God sent two angels to warn of the impending doom and they were threatened with gang rape by the towns folk. No where in Genesis does it state that God was destroying Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexuality. Of course I'm sure you can find a bible that states that, but I'm going with the original text.
Finally, can you give me any piece of scripture in which Jesus himself stated that being gay was wrong or that two members of the same sex could not be married?
10-31-2008, 02:22 PM #48
Wow you have some real issues
Ok look I am not going to sit here and defend that which you know is wrong. All I can tell you is that before the coming of Jesus things were alot different. Jesuses blood was spilled to not just to redeem us from our sin but to right the wrong of Adam and Eve ( in case you forgot eve is the one that GOD made Eve for Adam.
Romans 7:6 "Now then we are free from the Law,because we died to that which once held us prisoners, No longer do we serve in the old way of a written law, but in the new way of the spriit)(after the death of Jesus the Lord set his spirit to the earth) it's a little short but by our death in the old ways was put up for sacrifice with Jesus.
Now Paul who is filled with the spirit and is writing under the new law in 1 COR 7 : 2 says But there is so much immorality, every man should have his own wife, and every Woman should have her own husband.
Ok in Mark 10:6 JESUS SAYS:
6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
Ok there it is JESUS said it!
IN OTHER WORDS VOTE YES ON ADMENDMENT 2
Onto SODOM and GOMORRAH:
And if you can sit here and tell me by changing that which is sacred and holy into a foul and UNGODLY deed that you are not dismissing GOD just like the townspeople of Sodom Gomorrah did when they were warned then you really are diluted. Am I not warning you now, what are you doing is turning away from GOD and embracing your evil ways.
Really the BIBLE is a perfect work. Its easy to question it, and right to do so if you are unclear of something. You questions however are in an effort to discredit me. Though be sure I am not the one you so attack. You are attacking GOD and his perfect work. Now do not try to justify GAY marrriage by bringing up old law ( the old testiment) Becuse it was also wrong in the old testiment as such previously stated and that has never changed in the new testiment, even in the MANY times Jesus has spoken on Marriage as a union between Man and Woman.
Now can you find ME scripture that defines marriage as anything other then between a Man and a Woman, Can you find me scripture any where Homosexuality is embraced in a positive GODLY light?
Last edited by swampfox; 10-31-2008 at 02:30 PM.
10-31-2008, 02:31 PM #49
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10-31-2008, 02:31 PM #50
swamp thanks for continuing to bump up the NO thread. I love it being at the top of the page. Now, where did that pesky yes thread go??
when trying to hold a conversation with a zealot, one should just walk away. their point is always correct.
Last edited by John R; 10-31-2008 at 02:32 PM.
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