Multilevel marketing MLM discussion

[scenethief]

BUILD a real estate business. Go beyond being IN the real estate business. Wouldn't it be nice to be paid every Friday?

Build your business beyond the Panhandle. Build a nationwide business. We are expanding nationally, and in the near future, internationally.

[link removed]

[Bob]

Rev. Jones, What flavor is the kool-aid today???

[30A Skunkape]

Rev. Jones, What flavor is the kool-aid today???

[drsvelte]

scenethief

[30A Skunkape]

With associate director Mike Steal

[Smiling JOe]

If I were in sales with a name like thief or steal, I would consider changing my name or career.

[Bob]

I felt guilty about my post, so I listened to the pitch. Multi-level marketing comes to real estate agents/brokers. Hubert Humphrey's business model developed over the years w/ Amway, A.L. Williams. What I find interesting is his 43,000 square foot home he built, after selling a previous mansion to Robert "I want 210 million to go away" Nardelli of Home Depot infamy.

[Miss Kitty]

With associate director Mike Steal

Funded by Bill Fold

[Mermaid]

Funded by Bill Fold

That was one of your best puns!

[scenethief]

Wow, I did not expect this kind of negativity.

If what I do is not for you, that's OK. What each of you do for a living might not be something I might be interested in, but if you are passionate about it, I wish you much success.

Bob, thanks for at least checking out what you commented on. Say what you want about Hubert Humphrey, but over the last 20 years he has built up two companies and sold them to major corporations, and in the process, helped many people become financially independent. I hope to have that track record. He will do the same with Global Realty Marketing in a few years.

Smiling Joe, my last name is Seal, not Steal. "Scenethief" is just a play on words as in "steal the scene". :) Just a reference to my having a few small roles in a few films.

I DID post this thread in the right category, right? Employment.

[Smiling JOe]

not sure if you posted it in the right category. I thought, with your name, that you were a spybot marketing the latest real estate how to packages. Still not sure on what you are selling, or whom you are trying to employ. I did go to your site, but still confused.

[scenethief]

not sure if you posted it in the right category. I thought, with your name, that you were a spybot marketing the latest real estate how to packages. Still not sure on what you are selling, or whom you are trying to employ. I did go to your site, but still confused.

Not a "spybot". I have posted before.

As far as who I am looking to employ: just informing people of a genuine opportunity to build a real estate business, that's it. Anyone interested is employed by Global Realty Marketing, not me. They have to be licensed in at least one state, but can recruit nationally. The reason I posted was because I know how the Panhandle has been hit with the slowdown in the real estate industry. Other parts of the country did not experience so much of a bubble.

Regarding one of your recent posts on the surf conditions warning flags, I agree with you. Something needs to be done to get the message across to people that when the water is unsafe, don't go in. I have a few ideas; I will add to another thread.

[Smiling JOe]

Are you a Realtor? Loan Officer? I don't see you listed in the Emerald Coast of Realtors, and other than recruiting other members, I cannot determine what Global Realty Marketing, Inc or World Leadership Group do for a business.
I guess that fees are included in each of these groups you must join and I see that you pay fees to your trainers off of your first recruits. Sounds too much like a pyramid scheme to me.

I'll buy anyone a beer who can watch the "Realty Revolution Video" and tell me what the heck kind of job this is. Sounds like whomever joins will be so busy recruiting that they will not have time to actually sell anything other than memberships to these companies.

[Smiling JOe]

"you can be virtual broker across state lines." kind of vague, eh and bordering on illegal unless licensed in multiple states as a broker? and that is not all. "you can also break into the mortgage business." Next thing you know, you will get a set of Ginzu steak knives.

[Smiling JOe]

actually, I will give anyone a beer who can just watch that video in its entirity.

[Bob]

Wow, I did not expect this kind of negativity.

If what I do is not for you, that's OK. What each of you do for a living might not be something I might be interested in, but if you are passionate about it, I wish you much success.

Bob, thanks for at least checking out what you commented on. Say what you want about Hubert Humphrey, but over the last 20 years he has built up two companies and sold them to major corporations, and in the process, helped many people become financially independent. I hope to have that track record. He will do the same with Global Realty Marketing in a few years.

Smiling Joe, my last name is Seal, not Steal. "Scenethief" is just a play on words as in "steal the scene". :) Just a reference to my having a few small roles in a few films.

I DID post this thread in the right category, right? Employment.

I've got a theory about the negativity. I'll say cynicism. I'm cynical/sarcastic many times because I can't do this at home. You must admit though, anyone with a home twice as big as John Edwards has the empire flu. Who knows, he may pull this idea off, but I doubt many brokers want to give up a share of the transaction to pay their downline. Or is it upline??

[scenethief]

"you can be virtual broker across state lines." kind of vague, eh and bordering on illegal unless licensed in multiple states as a broker? and that is not all. "you can also break into the mortgage business." Next thing you know, you will get a set of Ginzu steak knives.

Joe, in another thread you state that a trend in RE is towards having a virtual office, that you could see within 10 years not having to open a brick and mortar office like you have had to do.

That time is now. No need to have the overhead of a brick and mortar office. With laptops and cell phones, most progressive RE agents don't need to go into an office anymore.

As far as "bordering on illegal unless licensed in multiple states as a broker?.." GRM is licensed in 37 states right now with more to come. Our state broker for Florida is in Orlando. We will add more brokers employed directly by GRM in other areas of Florida as sales volume and agents increase. We have a broker employed by GRM in each of the 37 states as well. We will open up the remaining 13 states, and then expand into other countries.

If you have any other questions, feel free to email me.

[SHELLY]

It's the Amway pyramid compensation plan business model...but instead of selling detergent and air freshener they sell condos and houses

Over the last couple years, the market was flooded with newly-minted RE agents chasing the easy money. With many now seeing their commissions drying up, the environment is ripe for the likes of GRM to once again give them something to get excited about. GRM had its big nationwide launch at the most recent NAR convention in NOLA. The folks who visited their information booth are now fanning out across the nation recruiting underlings. Additionally, I'm sure they'll be cranking out a never-ending supply of motivational books, tapes and conferences so the followers can fund the lifestyles of those on the top.

If this concept takes offs, and the leaders can sufficiently jazz their underlings, the GRM crowd may be serious competition for the traditional Realtor. But in the near-term, I find it difficult to believe that this Amway-like business model will be as successful for agents selling real estate than it was for agents selling floor cleaner...especially in a declining RE market.


.

[Smiling JOe]

As a experienced Realtor, I can think of no reason why I would think about giving up portions of each of my sale to other recruiters on the chain. In fact, I think most experienced agents would never bite. This company is not even a a member of Emerald Coast Association of Realtors. Having the company licensed in several states really has no benefit more than most other companies. I am actively licensed only in the state of Florida, yet I can give referrals to other great Realtors in any state or country.

In the state of Florida, only one in four real estate agents are Realtors. The difference? Realtors have a Code of Ethics by which we are governed. I searched for your name in the list of Realtors with ECAR, and I couldn't find it. Are you a Realtor?

By the way, I recruit buyers and sellers, not other real estate agents. I think it is easier to sell a property when you showing property rather than recruiting other people to take a portion of their sales. They, too, are probably busy recruiting, so your take of zero is how much? Oh, yeah, now I remember.

[jimmyp5]

SJ, I appreciate and second your comments about us Realtors. And Shelly, I think your comments are pretty accurate as well (as usual). In a market like we're in & probably will be for a while, the extra $$ needed to pay upstream MLM people as well as the agent(s) directly involved seems hard to find. And in an easier, busier market, most agents ought to be able to make a good living if they're smart & hard working.

In my experience, all MLM schemes are way less about giving someone the opportunity (downstream) to make a better life for themselves, and more about easy $$ for the upstream people that got in early. It's ultimately a chain letter, a Ponzi scheme, and the people at the end are left holding the bag.

I for one welcome people who want to make a good living into the real estate business, but you don't need the "support" and "innovation" of MLM to do it ... learn your market inside/out, work hard for your customers, tell the truth and you'll do fine.

[scenethief]

It's the Amway pyramid compensation plan business model...but instead of selling detergent and air freshener they sell condos and houses

Over the last couple years, the market was flooded with newly-minted RE agents chasing the easy money. With many now seeing their commissions drying up, the environment is ripe for the likes of GRM to once again give them something to get excited about. GRM had its big nationwide launch at the most recent NAR convention in NOLA. The folks who visited their information booth are now fanning out across the nation recruiting underlings. Additionally, I'm sure they'll be cranking out a never-ending supply of motivational books, tapes and conferences so the followers can fund the lifestyles of those on the top.

If this concept takes offs, and the leaders can sufficiently jazz their underlings, the GRM crowd may be serious competition for the traditional Realtor. But in the near-term, I find it difficult to believe that this Amway-like business model will be as successful for agents selling real estate than it was for agents selling floor cleaner...especially in a declining RE market.


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I love it. I never dreamed this thread would get this many views. Thank you for generating curiosity and interest. I have talked with three people. They might just join GRM. Amazing!!!

Amway is a fun way to make no money.

We have people making seven figures already in GRM...more to come. We have an 80/20 split for producing agents, with no desk fees, and no franchise fees. Our pay plan pays six levels deep, based on gross commissions, with no cap. Compare that to Keller Williams, Exit, Avalar. Great companies, just compare.

In order to receive commissions, an agent must be licensed and go through a background check, just like an other RE professional.

Yep, the RE market might be declining here in the Panhandle, more so in other parts of Florida, but other parts of the country did not experience a bubble like Florida, California, Arizona, and Las Vegas. Why not have the ability to recruit agents from areas where the market is still relatively strong? Can you do that now?

More important, if you are a producing agent, what is your exit strategy?
Hubert Humphrey benefited from having his two previous companies being sold to Citigroup and Aegon(one of Zach Johnson, 2007 Masters champion's sponsors). When GRM is sold in a few years, he will distribute 20% of the equity to the field reps based on how much they have helped build the company. That is the end game. Build up the company and sell it; it is done every day in this country.

GRM is a new concept that you should take a serious look at and not be worried about. This one, www.iggyshouse.com, you might want to be worried about.

[SHELLY]

I love it. I never dreamed this thread would get this many views. Thank you for generating curiosity and interest. I have talked with three people. They might just join GRM. Amazing!!!

The primary target audience (recruitees) are the feckless, newly-minted RE agents who just happened to be onboard the last train to Bubbleville. Seasoned, professional Realtors will be a much, much harder sell.

If the prospective new recruits happen to Google Hubert Humphrey they'll find he and his ilk are more about selling a "six-figure dream" to the underlings (in ANY profession, be it finance, insurance, mortgage lending or RE) and skimming their take off the top.

The organization's focus is on recruiting, recruiting and recruiting and less about providing a service to their clients who are about to make the most costly and important purchase of their lives.

Humphrey and his cabal of hungry followers will probably provide some new and unexpected competition to the traditional Realtors...but will the public warm up this new breed of Stepford Realtors?

[scenethief]

"Feckless"? Everyone was a greenie at some point. As competitive as real estate is, if an agent is not providing good service, the client will go somewhere else, no matter what company is involved.

"Skimming?" If an agent is paid 80% commission and does not have to pay desk fees and/or franchise fees, there is not much left to skim.

"Recruiting, recruiting, recruitng"? RECRUITING = GROWTH. Ask any Broker/Owner what they would like to spend more time on (besides going to the bank to deposit checks!!)...recruiting..growing their business. We offer a system whereby RE professionals can go BEYOND being IN the real estate business to BUILDING a business. Move beyond the anxiety of "when will my next closed side happen?"

I see a very bright future....not "Economic Meltdown Imminent".

As Voltaire said, "Nothing can stop an idea whose time has come".

[SHELLY]

We offer a system whereby RE professionals can go BEYOND being IN the real estate business to BUILDING a business.

How much will this "system" cost me?


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[Smiling JOe]

"Skimming?" If an agent is paid 80% commission and does not have to pay desk fees and/or franchise fees, there is not much left to skim.
.

In one of the four videos on the link you provided, it was stated that the agent who recruited a newbie took a portion of the recruit's commissions. It also stated that those commissions went right up the chain to the agent who recruited the agent who recruited the agent who recruited the newbie who actually worked for the commission. I believe that is where it cut into the 80%.

[jimmyp5]

You're scaring me, scenethief -- your posts sound like you've been drinking out of that kool-aid vat.

Most MLM schemes I've seen over the years are based on building one's business, not only by recruting one's network/downstream/whatever, but by bringing a product or service to the consumer that's new/different/cheaper/not available elsewhere, like Amway or vitamins or pre-paid phone cards, etc.

what's being brought to the consumer here, that they can't get elsewhere? and, feckless or not, why on earth does an agent in Oklahoma want some of his $$ to go to me in Florida, other than to get a chance for him to get $$ from agents in other states? This is the chain-letter, house of cards aspect that I find very objectionable. Like any pyramid scheme, it only works because eventually there's no one else to recruit down at the very bottom. There's no magical well of $$ that flows six layers up.

[30A Skunkape]

A blurb from Clark Howard's website regarding multilevel marketing:

multi-level marketing


You make money in two ways in a multilevel marketing organization: you buy products from the company and resell them to customers, and you recruit people into the organization and earn a commission off their sales.
Don't join a multilevel marketing organization unless you have sales ability, you believe in the product, and the product is priced fairly.
Don't join if the main purpose of the organization is rounding up new recruits. Such an organization may be an illegal pyramid.
If you're an outstanding salesperson who would do well at multi-level marketing, you would probably do better by selling through a traditional sales channel, where you don't have to split your commissions.

[SHELLY]

To those 3 people who are interested in GRM, I suggest you read this link: (http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html) entitled "What's Wrong with Multi-Level Marketing?

The link reads in part:

The People Machine

Chernobyl had a control system that failed. MLMs have no control mechanisms at all.

Where is the "switch" that can be flipped in an MLM when enough sales people are hired? In a normal company a manager says, "We have enough, let's stop hiring people at this point." But in an MLM, there is no way to do this. An MLM is a human "churning" machine with no "off button." Out of control by design, its gears will grind up the money, time, credibility, and entrepreneurial energy of well-meaning people who joined merely to supplement their income. Better to just steer clear of this monster to begin with.

There is simply no way to avoid the built-in failure mechanism of MLMs. If a company chooses to market this way, it will eventually "hire" (with no base pay and charging to join) far too many people.

Thus, the only "control system" will be the inevitable losses and subsequent bad image the MLM company will gain after it does what it was designed to do: fail. And sooner or later we have got to stop blaming this particular MLM company or that, and admit that the MLM technique itself is fundamentally flawed.

New Solution: A Retarded MLM

Some modern incarnations of MLMs attempt to address this particular problem by limiting the number of people you can sponsor, say, to four. But the same geometric expansion problems exist; the failure mechanism has just been slowed down a bit. And now there is the added problem of even more unnecessary layers in the organization.

The claim that an MLM is merely a "common man" implementation of a normal real-world distribution channel becomes even more absurd in this case. Imagine buying a product or service in the real world and having to pay overrides and royalties to five or ten unneeded and uninvolved "distributor" layers. Would this be efficient? What value do these layers of "distributors" provide to the consumer? Is this rational? Would such a company exist long in a competitive environment?
----------------------------------------------------------------

3 People: You've been sufficiently warned.

Mr Seal: What say you?

[Geo]

Really interesting thread. Here's my unsolicited 2 cents-

Scenethief, I admire your ability to remain positive and professional despite the tone of many of the responses. I think you will do well in whatever you do. I wish you the best...

I thought Kurt said that if someone is posting something with the intent to sell it [or promote it] that the rest of us should reserve commentary that poo poos it...

With that in mind, I find that the posts in this thread that help clarify, define and uncover the specifics of Scenethief's program are totally appropriate. But those that cast judgement based on preconceived notions or other negative experiences in MLM (or that speculate whether or not potential recruits/realtors would find value in the program) are arguably unfair and inappropriate...

If Scenethief had started a thread that says, "What do you think of the potential success of joining something like this?" then that would be a different story...

2 Cents...

Cheers,
George

P.S. Full disclosure: I am not part of any MLM business, nor have I ever been.

[Bob]

http://www.wlgweb.com/

[Smiling JOe]

Humphrey Estate -- an entire website devoted to the founder's home and auto collection.

[Bob]

John Edwards is an amateur!

[scenethief]

In one of the four videos on the link you provided, it was stated that the agent who recruited a newbie took a portion of the recruit's commissions. It also stated that those commissions went right up the chain to the agent who recruited the agent who recruited the agent who recruited the newbie who actually worked for the commission. I believe that is where it cut into the 80%.

You are right, Joe.

We pair up the newbie with a field trainer who may/may not be the agent who recruited the newbie. The field trainer will help the newbie on their first few sales, and get a portion of each sale. The other portion of the 20% is divided according to the agreed pay plan.

[scenethief]

Humphrey Estate -- an entire website devoted to the founder's home and auto collection.

Check this one out too: www.wlgfoundation.com

[scenethief]

A blurb from Clark Howard's website regarding multilevel marketing:

multi-level marketing


You make money in two ways in a multilevel marketing organization: you buy products from the company and resell them to customers, and you recruit people into the organization and earn a commission off their sales.
Don't join a multilevel marketing organization unless you have sales ability, you believe in the product, and the product is priced fairly.
Don't join if the main purpose of the organization is rounding up new recruits. Such an organization may be an illegal pyramid.
If you're an outstanding salesperson who would do well at multi-level marketing, you would probably do better by selling through a traditional sales channel, where you don't have to split your commissions.

I am a huge Clark Howard fan.

We don't get paid when a recruit signs up. NO ONE gets paid unless a real estate side is closed or a mortgage is closed.

[scenethief]

You're scaring me, scenethief -- your posts sound like you've been drinking out of that kool-aid vat.

Most MLM schemes I've seen over the years are based on building one's business, not only by recruting one's network/downstream/whatever, but by bringing a product or service to the consumer that's new/different/cheaper/not available elsewhere, like Amway or vitamins or pre-paid phone cards, etc.

what's being brought to the consumer here, that they can't get elsewhere? and, feckless or not, why on earth does an agent in Oklahoma want some of his $$ to go to me in Florida, other than to get a chance for him to get $$ from agents in other states? This is the chain-letter, house of cards aspect that I find very objectionable. Like any pyramid scheme, it only works because eventually there's no one else to recruit down at the very bottom. There's no magical well of $$ that flows six layers up.

Greetings from Atlanta! I am at our corporate headquarters this week for more Kool Aid consumption. We even had a large bonfire last night and we all danced around the fire like wild Injuns (kidding).

I have met BROKER/OWNERS from California, Missouri, North Carolina, the list goes on that, like I, think that the Kool Aid is DEEE-LICIOUS.

Jimmy, your argument is convoluted and just plain ignorant. We follow the laws according to the individual state(s) that we are licensed in: 37 states with more to come.

[jimmyp5]

I have met BROKER/OWNERS from California, Missouri, North Carolina, the list goes on that, like I, think that the Kool Aid is DEEE-LICIOUS.

Jimmy, your argument is convoluted and just plain ignorant. We follow the laws according to the individual state(s) that we are licensed in: 37 states with more to come.

If you're going to call me names, at least read my post & debate me on the issues raised -- you didn't address my points about the nature of MLM at all. And, BTW, I didn't claim that no one would want in, and I didn't claim this was illegal.

As others in the thread also state, I maintain that the "override" $$ comes from somewhere, from someone, and eventually there'll be no one left downstream to pay the people that came late to the party. And, I asked you what you're bringing to the consumer that they can't get elsewhere.

[JoshMclean]

Supposedly it is a legitimate mulit level marketing company affiliated with AT&T, Verizon, Nextel, Dish Network, etc...
Of course you are paid according to how many people you can sign u and so forth. Apparently this thing is pretty hot right now and supposedly you can make up to 50k/month blah blah blah.

I was wondering if anyone had experience with this company? I am having a background check done on them right now including pending lawsuits and financial health.

I know many people who have made money in these programs, am just looking for info on this specific company.

[Smiling JOe]

the question you have to ask is, are you making money by selling products, or are you making money by signing people up? If the first, it might be decent, but if the latter, RUN! What will you be selling, phone services?

[JoshMclean]

It's both SJ. From the best I have heard you get money for each person you sign up and the people they sign up. You also receive residuals on money they are saving.

The companies who have affiliated with Fortune High Tech offer discounts to those who use them. For example, when your cell phone contract runs out you sign up with one of the affiliates through FHTM. You then receive a 5-20% discount on your monthly bill through that affiliate. So essentially you are saving yourself money on things you are already paying for.
They say that these corporations are paying them big money as to gain long term clientele. I know several reputable people in this area that have jumped in hard. Didn't know if anyone here was involved and if they made any $?

[JoshMclean]

They are having a presentation and question/answer time tonight. It's at 7:30 tonight at Houston 8. Houston 8 is located between Sarah K's and Subway in the Best Buy parking lot.

I'm going to check it out. I'll look into anything that may make some money on the side. It's open to the public so anyone that may be interested should be there.

[scooterbug44]

Sounds like a pyramid telemarketing scheme.

[JoshMclean]

In a way, but it seems like there's an opportunity to make some money. It's not really a scheme, but seems to be a legit business set up in that fashion. The background check just came back pretty clean. I just read several articles on the internet about the founder Paul Orberson that were very positive about him.

If you think about it a lot of businesses are kind of set up the same way. A Real Estate office is kind of set up the same way. Money trickles down from the broker. I know plenty of Real Estate companies that pay bonuses to agents for recruiting also.

[Smiling JOe]

I'd be running the other way. You are essentially a recruiter, and are not selling anything. How much money are they charging for you to attend the seminar, or to start up?

[Smiling JOe]

Josh, you are right about some real estate offices being set up for sharing income of people who you bring aboard. Keller Williams is one of those companies. However, most agents at Keller Williams are on board to sell real estate. Recruiting is secondary. The scenario in the model you present, you are not selling anything. You are simply recruiting people who recruit people, who recruit people.

[JoshMclean]

They are selling a service. They recruit people to use a service provider that is affiliated with them. Then when you switch to their provider you get a discount on your bills anyway. Essentially you would be saving yourself money. I don't know enough about it, but my interest has been peaked.
It's a $299 set up fee, but you would make that back after signing up 3 people. I just got off the phone with my private investigative buddy in California who told me that he hasn't ever been sued and been in business since 2001. That's pretty impressive for anyone running a business.

[beachmouse]

"This is not a pyramid scheme. It only looks kind of like a triangle..."

[Smiling JOe]

So they make $300 per person who signs up. You make $100 per person you sign up. I have plenty of information to know that you should RUN. I've ran a business longer than that, and knock on wood, I haven't been sued either. The Club isn't necessarily illegal. It is much like a buying club, where members receive discounts on items they buy from certain vendors who pay to be in the Club and they have to offer discounts in return. The company which is setting this up is really the only one making any money. Cell phone contracts are highly competitive right now, and anyone who knows what they are doing can negotiate with the cell phone reps for better rates or discounts on phones. If Alltel has the best reception around here and your Club doesn't have Alltel as a carrier, and you go with Company X, because they offer a discount, but now don't have decent reception, you have not gotten a deal. You have gotten hosed.

[Smiling JOe]

I remember when a guy I knew made an appointment to talk with me one day, many years ago. I thought he wanted to talk business, with him buying my services, because that is what he indicated. This was a retired man, former military. He came in as scheduled and started to tell me about the great business of selling long distance for telephones. I was polite, and declined, but I wanted to kick him out and slam the door. This is no different. Start pitching your friends and acquaintances about switching service providers and you will not have any friends.

[JoshMclean]

So they make $300 per person who signs up. You make $100 per person you sign up. I have plenty of information to know that you should RUN. I've ran a business longer than that, and knock on wood, I haven't been sued either. The Club isn't necessarily illegal. It is much like a buying club, where members receive discounts on items they buy from certain vendors who pay to be in the Club and they have to offer discounts in return. The company which is setting this up is really the only one making any money. Cell phone contracts are highly competitive right now, and anyone who knows what they are doing can negotiate with the cell phone reps for better rates or discounts on phones. If Alltel has the best reception around here and your Club doesn't have Alltel as a carrier, and you go with Company X, because they offer a discount, but now don't have decent reception, you have not gotten a deal. You have gotten hosed.

I don't disagree with you yet SJ. Yes, I would say that it is very similar to that type of club.

Also, there's a big difference in not being sued running a very large corporation and being a Realtor.