Seaside...Welcome or Not

[Waiting For]

Anyone else find Susan Vallee's editorial in the Seaside Times, about the unfriendliness by owners there, including the sign wars in that bucolic setting, of merit? Seems Walton Sun and NW Fla Daily News are writing about some of it...but Susan really "told it like it is". Apparently there are a few Seagrove emails circulating telling recent "war stories" about verbal attacks by Seaside owners, including threats to call "security" if they didn't leave the "private" pavilions and streets immediately!

[jodiFL]

It doesnt surprise me at all. And I think she is telling it like it is. There will be no more of the bus tours of people to admire the architecture, shop, dine etc. There will be no more people driving out from PC or Destin to shop and dine there and before you know it there will be houses where Perspicasity, Bud and Alleys and all the other beach side businesses are. And you only have the narcissistic new home owners in the area to blame. They paid good money and will defend this little piece of paradises privacy until they (or it) are dead.

[Beach Runner]

Wow. I had heard that high-rise commercial buildings were going to replace Bud & Alley's, Perspicasity, and the entire beachside commercial area where B&A et. al. now exist. It would take some deep pockets to replace all of that with private residences. However, from what I've seen, the deep pockets get deeper, and everyone else is struggling.

[Beach House 25]

It doesnt surprise me at all. And I think she is telling it like it is. There will be no more of the bus tours of people to admire the architecture, shop, dine etc. There will be no more people driving out from PC or Destin to shop and dine there and before you know it there will be houses where Perspicasity, Bud and Alleys and all the other beach side businesses are. And you only have the narcissistic new home owners in the area to blame. They paid good money and will defend this little piece of paradises privacy until they (or it) are dead.

Shazam!

[Waiting For]

Recently I did a search on "downtown Seaside" and googled terms like that...what the search produced was eye-opening: Not high rises...but high quality architecture. Actually that rumor is really off the mark...the downtown is planned and was announced here in detail...http://www.newurbannews.com/SeasideMar05.html



That tower part is all that'll be high...and it will be a breathtakingly beautiful work of art set in scale, as these pictures show, to very low profile structures keeping the view to the Gulf open.



(see http://www.opticosdesign.com/project...etower_fd.html)



After reading these details, I think it clearly will beautify and enhance our 30 A corridor..



if in the meantime the very small cadre of xenophobic vigilantes policing Seaside's homeowner streets don't drive everyone away...



But...even if the few homeowner bullies behind the sign wars continue their "exclusive for me" biz, the downtown will remain and be public place...Seaside's founder owns the downtown and has publically dedicated himself to make it become consistent with the vision he had/has of community and connection he started nearly 30 years ago when some of us in Seagrove first met him....

[jodiFL]

Thank you for that insightful post Waiting.. I am glad to see that they will be featuring L.Krier works there.

[Smiling JOe]

They can say that the "downtown" Seaside will remain public, but as parking gets even tighter, and beach accesses are cut off, the public will quickly stop shopping in the public stores, and stop dining in the restaurants.

I didn't read the article about the sign wars, but know that Seaside had a run in with the SWFD over the posts in the middle of the roads off of 30A, and the SWFD won that battle. It seems that Seaside didn't want the firetrucks to be able to access the private streets in order for them to put out a fire. They also made Seaside remove the temporary marquees at each of those roads, which stated, "Private, residents only."

Oh, Snap!

[JUL]

Seaside has alway's felt like a Disney set to me...kind of forced and unnatural...now I know it is...those people are GOOFY....not letting firetrucks in....what will happen when the public servants decide to take their time...to get to where they are not well received.

[Teresa]

I read Susan's article about the signs and glad she addressed this because, to me, Seaside has always been very open to the public and I hope it stays this way. We have enjoyed visiting the town of Seaside for many years and have never felt excluded in any way. Its kind of a mini vacation for us to drive 4 minutes from Pt Washington/bay area to the town and just stroll, shop, eat ice cream, walk on the beach, enjoy the concerts, etc.

I think what Susan is mainly referring to are signs along the back part of seaside where locals cut through from seagrove - we aren't suppose to be driving through the residence area, but always do.

I haven't heard about anyone being told to leave the pavillion or beach areas - I hope this isn't a problem.

Thank you Susan for bringing this up before it does become a problem for Seaside. We love Seaside - it's the only resort town on 30A that really opens up for the entire community.

[TreeFrog]

Going one way...

[TreeFrog]

Going the other way...

[TreeFrog]

Sadly, the "it's mine and I won't share" attitude isn't confined to Seaside. But we're all more than a little disappointed to find it cropping up there. It makes a mockery of New Urbanism.

[TreeFrog]

I read Susan's article about the signs and glad she addressed this because, to me, Seaside has always been very open to the public and I hope it stays this way. We have enjoyed visiting the town of Seaside for many years and have never felt excluded in any way. Its kind of a mini vacation for us to drive 4 minutes from Pt Washington/bay area to the town and just stroll, shop, eat ice cream, walk on the beach, enjoy the concerts, etc.

I think what Susan is mainly referring to are signs along the back part of seaside where locals cut through from seagrove - we aren't suppose to be driving through the residence area, but always do.

I haven't heard about anyone being told to leave the pavillion or beach areas - I hope this isn't a problem.

Thank you Susan for bringing this up before it does become a problem for Seaside. We love Seaside - it's the only resort town on 30A that really opens up for the entire community.

And just in case anyone thinks I am down on Seaside, wrong. I too am really thankful for all they offer residents and guests on 30A. Our cultural and community life would be much poorer without all the things that are made openly available to all of us.

[seacrestkristi]

I try to avoid that tourist trap all together. They can have it. Even their ice cream is hollow. What a rip!

[Jdarg]

I read Susan's article about the signs and glad she addressed this because, to me, Seaside has always been very open to the public and I hope it stays this way. We have enjoyed visiting the town of Seaside for many years and have never felt excluded in any way. Its kind of a mini vacation for us to drive 4 minutes from Pt Washington/bay area to the town and just stroll, shop, eat ice cream, walk on the beach, enjoy the concerts, etc.

I think what Susan is mainly referring to are signs along the back part of seaside where locals cut through from seagrove - we aren't suppose to be driving through the residence area, but always do.

I haven't heard about anyone being told to leave the pavillion or beach areas - I hope this isn't a problem.

Thank you Susan for bringing this up before it does become a problem for Seaside. We love Seaside - it's the only resort town on 30A that really opens up for the entire community.

Same here- we are over there doing something at least 2 or 3 days a week. It is truly the town center of 30A.

[kathydwells]

I love walking in Seaside and doing my end of vacation shopping there. Our trip always ends with a trip to Sundog books, and I love Modica's. Of course B&A's....love it.

[Waiting For]

What is clear to me is that Seaside does not speak with one voice. I, like many other Seagrove residents, have friendly neighbors who actually live full-time in Seaside.

What these recent developments reflect, I am told, are the actions of a very few individuals who have taken over the politics of some of the homeowner street associations and exercised their personal agenda: "Mine Mine Mine". It is they who were responsible for the signs and confrontations with non-Seaside owners.

I have heard from more than one Seaside homeowner how embarassed they are by these actions of a few that reflect exclusiveness rather than the inclusive spirit on which Seaside was founded.

Below is a letter circulated by a resident of both Seagrove AND Seaside (who is, I am told, among those responsible for the signs) in which she defends the actions of this small minority to make Seaside more "exclusive":

"Dear Seagrove Folks,
Since we live in Seagrove and own property in Seaside, we get input from both communities. It is clear that we who live in Seagrove feel that Seaside has become unfriendly and restrictive. Those who own in Seaside feel that we are unfriendly and thoughtless for a number of reasons. We walk our dogs through Seaside and many don't pick up poop left all over their properties. We use their streets and pavilions
like they are ours and we pay nothing for the maintenance and repair. They have to pay for water and utility bills for the pavilions while we and our renters use their facilities and streets and pay nothing. We use Seaside as a lure to rent our Seagrove properties but pay nothing for all our renters to use the Seaside streets and pavilions, all of which they have to pay to maintain. We who live in Seagrove think that the home-
owners in Seaside gain financially from the commercial area. Not true. Only business owners and the developer benefit from those businesses financially. We all benefit from the convenience and fun of having them there. The Seaside homeowners must pay to maintain all the residential streets and pavilions, not the developer. The homeowners are liable for the golf cart damage and injury on the private streets in Seaside. There is so much damage that we in Seagrove are unaware of. They can't discriminate as to which golf carts from outside Seaside can be allowed
in and which can't. As we all know, it isn't even legal to have golf carts on the County roads in Seagrove.

I'm sure if all us Seagrove residents were willing to pay the $3600/year each property owner in Seaside must pay to maintain the streets and pavilions, the Seaside owners would not be so restrictive and unfriendly.
If we think about the situation like the Seaside owners do, we would realize that they are paying for our County roads AND their private streets. They are paying for our County walkovers AND their private walkovers. And, we are trying to take rentals from them by using what they are paying for as a lure to rent our Seagrove houses. Some of us pay to use the Seaside pools, tennis and fitness center and think that money goes to the owners in Seaside. Not true. That money goes to the developer and his agent. I don't think we in Seagrove will ever be happy with the restrictions. But maybe we could try to understand the whole situation a little better.
Sissie Canale"

[ShallowsNole]

I worked for SCDC for three years, and later for one of the merchants for three years. Both situations involved homeowner accounting. Grrrr. I still thank the good Lord that I got out.

However, I will say that when Fuzz was un-fuzzed and took a job in their security office, they were very, very good to him. TJ is great.

[Smiling JOe]

"They (Seaside owners) are paying for our County walkovers" -- That is not true. The tourists pay for the County beach walkovers via bed taxes.

Here's my thoughts on it. Seaside was once the only development on 30A which had a warm and friendly feel to it, welcoming the public to park, shop, and access the beautiful beaches. They even had restrooms available. In the last two years, the public parking has been reduced to almost nothing, "private, owners and guests only" signs were posted at each beach access which had been used by the public since Seaside began, without parking readily available, shopping has been cut back and I rarely eat in Seaside anymore. I still shop at Sundog's Books and Central Sq Records when I need to buy a book or CD, because of the friendly and knowledgeable staff, and I frequent Eileen West's art gallery, as well as the REP Theatre, which currently calls Seaside home. I also frequent the Post Office in Seaside, because of the two kindest faces working behind the counter. I enjoy the occasional stroll down the deserted streets for a moment of solitude, and on occasion, I will snap some photos of the area. I have never had anyone tell me to get off their pavilion or to get off their beach at Seaside. I know Seaside owners and they certainly don't mind me being their everyday guest.

The warm, welcoming feel which Seaside once radiated, is quickly disappearing. It is like they turned a cold shoulder to the very people whom they used to throw out the red carpet for. Every store in Seaside taxes the buyers to pay for the Seaside entertainment ( I notice that Sissie Canale conveniently forgot about that in her email). It is difficult to want to pay that tax or frequent any businesses there, when the people running the show make the entire development so cold and jagged (in contrast to warm and fuzzy).
Next thing you know, they will not have a public restroom.

I don't shower in seaside, and walking up the steps at a pavilion doesn't add to wear and tear on it. I pick up trash I see while I'm there, and I share photos of Seaside, giving them promotion in the process. If they don't want me there, it is their loss, not mine. I'll go where I'm wanted, and tell others to avoid Seaside like the plague. Want some bad press, piss people off. Bad press is free and easy.

[newyorker]

Like a number of you, our family loves Seaside and we also always finish our vacation there, and while we are at 30A, we are there almost every day. We bought our house in Memphis in a New Urbanism neighborhood much like Seaside. We happen to like being on the beach, so we stay in Seagrove, but the friendliness we have seen for more than 10 years at Seaside is an important aspect of why we spend (lots!) of money for a vacation at SOWAL. Now that the kids are at college, husband and I even spent my college's fall ba reak at Seaside (we rented a tiny place), and this time, we did have access to the community pools and exercise room.

I say all this to echo the opinions of many of you--there is a special karma about Seaside, even with its Disney-like qualities. Indeed, I would argue, a vacation place needs a bit of a sense of unreality to be a real escape. I sincerely hope that the powers that be understand that becoming a gated community will destroy the special qualities that bring tourist money. Even the value of their real estate is predicated on this special quality.

Happy Holidays everyone!

[Beach House 25]

What I see here is a failure to communicate!
I do not like to coin old sayings, but honest Joe here.... Seems like from the outside looking in its a basic communication gap. As I have posted before in other threads, I believe that a person has a right to what they purchased and they have the legal rights provided to them as such provided by the law makers. Now unlike some that advocate blocking paths and tossing tea... I feel communication is the best method to resolve these types of matters.

Let me cut through the chase and shorten this could be long post.

Why not create an association (If there is not one) that represents the entire Sowal group and area. We elect these folks into office to represent just us. They are required to attend all city and county as well as state functions concerning our area. They go to county meetings with "OUR" agenda and present it and we count at the polls when its time. I am open on this just flashed through my head as I drove through Seaside this morning. What say you?

[Smiling JOe]

Perfect! You are elected. Is there a second?

[Beach House 25]

Perfect! You are elected. Is there a second?

Sorry SJ, I was kinda looking at you, Your very informed on this area, unlike me, I am a new comer hence the "Outsider" looking in comment. But people that have a genuine concern for our multi community should be considered and hopefully have a background of our wonderful community.

Thanks again SJ but I vote for you to be on this community.!

[Smiling JOe]

lol. Like I need another job which doesn't pay. I have plenty of those. Plus, I don't think that I accurately represent the majority of people on SoWal.com/bb. I accurately represent myself, but I tend to think a bit too simplistically, and sometimes that equates to being outside the box.

[SWGB]

Boy the SWCC must be sleeping in today. BH25 that is the South Walton Community Council, they have been around for a while and although they occasionally get bashed, they are the closest thing currently in existence that you are referencing.

[Beach House 25]

lol. Like I need another job which doesn't pay. I have plenty of those. Plus, I don't think that I accurately represent the majority of people on SoWal.com/bb. I accurately represent myself, but I tend to think a bit too simplistically, and sometimes that equates to being outside the box.

SJ thats what I think we all need.. someone who thinks "Outside" the box.. YES!

Let me clear this up a bit, I see it having one person from each division, Like the folks in Seagrove elect their rep and Seaside, Watercolor,Blue Mt.,so on and so on, Freeport, you see the idea here? And they meet once a month to bring all of their thoughts to the table, yeah I know thats why we elect our county rep's hummm seems to me some need some direction and planning help.. But this group is for all the little quagmires (Sp) we seem to have overlooked ... just an idea...

[Beach House 25]

Boy the SWCC must be sleeping in today. BH25 that is the South Walton Community Council, they have been around for a while and although they occasionally get bashed, they are the closest thing currently in existence that you are referencing.

Thank You SWGB ! Ok well I never said it had not been done yet LOL.. But hey it never hurts to put things out there, never know when one might be an Emmy! Thanks again SWGB! Hope you have a wonderful day today!

[Smiling JOe]

The SWCC is the closest thing, but I'm not sure that it operates on the same lines of pulling a rep from each community. Two of there representatives typically attend each Board of County Commissioners meeting in SoWal, so they fit the bill in that manner. I am somewhat laughing at the idea that the community reps being required to attend all the meetings, because other than the two SWCC people noted above, the only other regulars are the reporter from the radio station, something like 1640am, and the gentleman from the Walton County Tax Payer's Association. We have a total lack of interest in local gov't by the majority of the people. Some may say they are interested, but they have placed other things on a higher priority of their things to do. I grew up going to County Commissioner Meetings and Court cases, because my parents didn't have baby sitters, so attending the meetings is right up my alley. Attending the meetings provides much insight to local gov't and projects.

I do like your idea of bringing the communities together, but think that most people won't contribute the time and effort, based on what I've seen in the past.

[Beach House 25]

The SWCC is the closest thing, but I'm not sure that it operates on the same lines of pulling a rep from each community. Two of there representatives typically attend each Board of County Commissioners meeting in SoWal, so they fit the bill in that manner. I am somewhat laughing at the idea that the community reps being required to attend all the meetings, because other than the two SWCC people noted above, the only other regulars are the reporter from the radio station, something like 1640am, and the gentleman from the Walton County Tax Payer's Association. We have a total lack of interest in local gov't by the majority of the people. Some may say they are interested, but they have placed other things on a higher priority of their things to do. I grew up going to County Commissioner Meetings and Court cases, because my parents didn't have baby sitters, so attending the meetings is right up my alley. Attending the meetings provides much insight to local gov't and projects.

I do like your idea of bringing the communities together, but think that most people won't contribute the time and effort, based on what I've seen in the past.

SJ, I wonder if we could get like a local eatery to help sponsor this once a month for the meeting.. I know a FREE meal always gets me to sit at the table! Just an idea..

[Smiling JOe]

Meeting once a month is one thing, but attending the two BCC meetings and the Planning Commission meetings each month, in addition to the SoWal meeting, would begin to take up mucho time and energy, and that is in addition to writing emails, summary of meetings, sitting down with your own community, doing research on current topics, etc. It could easily take up 40 hours a month if it was done right.

[Beach House 25]

Meeting once a month is one thing, but attending the two BCC meetings and the Planning Commission meetings each month, in addition to the SoWal meeting, would begin to take up mucho time and energy, and that is in addition to writing emails, summary of meetings, sitting down with your own community, doing research on current topics, etc. It could easily take up 40 hours a month if it was done right.

I don't know how many reps we would need but say 5-6 and have one go to each separate meeting and rotate the meetings they attend and report back monthly to the board? I am just thinking out load here so don't hold my toes to the fire LOL!

[Waiting For]

Tootsie wrote: "I read Susan's article about the signs and glad she addressed this because, to me, Seaside has always been very open to the public and I hope it stays this way.
...I haven't heard about anyone being told to leave the pavillion or beach areas - I hope this isn't a problem"

Tootsie and all, maybe the below will fill in a few pieces of how dramatic the actions of just one or two people can be:

"I live in Seagrove Beach with my wife. We built our house over a year ago and we absolutely love living in this community. I agree with your opinions and although I do not live in Seaside I shop and dine there. We are members of the Seaside tennis and fitness club. We attend the Seaside chapel, where my wife is a volunteer. We are donors to the Seaside Repertory Theater and our daughter was married on the beach in Seaside this past year. We have made wonderful friends in Seaside and all through the local community. We support all the local businesses in Seaside and bordering communities.

In the past year we have felt as though Seaside is taking on an image of "if you do not live here, you're not welcome." I will give you 2 perfect example's. This past summer, members of our family walked from our home to the Seaside Fitness center (where we are members). As they crossed past Tupelo St. into Seaside, they were confronted by an individual who asked them if they lived in Seaside and of course the answer was no, "we are going to the fitness club". They were then told that Seaside is a private community and is only for homeowners or guests of Seaside. WOW! I guess that was in the small print when we paid our family membership last year.

Example 2: I work from home and I will several times per week ride my bike at lunchtime to a local shop to purchase something to eat. Many times I would ride into Seaside and stop at Modica's or Roly Poly, buy lunch and walk to a pavilion to enjoy the beauty of the beach. About a month ago,I stopped at Modica's, bought a sandwich, hopped on my bike and stopped at one of the pavilion's to eat and enjoy the beautiful day before returning to work. Within 2 minutes of sitting down and unwrapping my sandwich, I was confronted by a woman who asked if I was a resident of Seaside. Of course I said no I was just eating lunch before returning to work. She then proceeded to tell me that this was private property, I was trespassing and I had to leave or she would call security. Again WOW! I looked around, there was no one on the pavilion, on the beach or anywhere else I could see. I very politely gathered my lunch, bid her a good day and left. I wasn't mad but actually sad, I was not welcome. I will not go back to Seaside at lunchtime and I doubt we will renew our membership to the tennis and fitness club either.

I am perplexed to understand why Seaside would want to encourage this? I say encourage it since obviously it is not discouraged. I doubt that one person would have the authority to place signs at entrances and all around Seaside, so it must be a Seaside majority vote that rules? I guess this is acceptable to Robert Davis as well? I have never met Mr. Davis but admire or shall I say did admire his vision and "new urbanism" approach. If this Seaside is new urbanism then I am not a fan.

I agree that with the limited parking space in front of houses,
people attending events etc, should not park in front of homes. Which leads me to another interesting observation. Golf carts unless they are Seaside golf carts are not allowed? Does it not make more sense that a golf cart would help reduce car traffic and actually be safer and cause less of a parking problem than a full size car? If this is the direction that the Seaside community wants to go then I would suggest installing security gates and issuing passes that only admit Seaside residents. I doubt that the Seaside businesses owners are pleased that customers are being run out of town, but Seaside is doing an effective job of discouraging folks from coming in.

We do not loiter, we pick up trash if it is strewn around, whether it is
Seaside or Seacrest or Grayton Beach or Seagrove. We live here and respect the beauty of all of Walton County.

Tony Lagratta
Seagrove Beach"

[Beach House 25]

Tootsie wrote: "I read Susan's article about the signs and glad she addressed this because, to me, Seaside has always been very open to the public and I hope it stays this way.
...I haven't heard about anyone being told to leave the pavillion or beach areas - I hope this isn't a problem"

Tootsie and all, maybe the below will fill in a few pieces of how dramatic the actions of just one or two people can be:

"I live in Seagrove Beach with my wife. We built our house over a year ago and we absolutely love living in this community. I agree with your opinions and although I do not live in Seaside I shop and dine there. We are members of the Seaside tennis and fitness club. We attend the Seaside chapel, where my wife is a volunteer. We are donors to the Seaside Repertory Theater and our daughter was married on the beach in Seaside this past year. We have made wonderful friends in Seaside and all through the local community. We support all the local businesses in Seaside and bordering communities.

In the past year we have felt as though Seaside is taking on an image of "if you do not live here, you're not welcome." I will give you 2 perfect example's. This past summer, members of our family walked from our home to the Seaside Fitness center (where we are members). As they crossed past Tupelo St. into Seaside, they were confronted by an individual who asked them if they lived in Seaside and of course the answer was no, "we are going to the fitness club". They were then told that Seaside is a private community and is only for homeowners or guests of Seaside. WOW! I guess that was in the small print when we paid our family membership last year.

Example 2: I work from home and I will several times per week ride my bike at lunchtime to a local shop to purchase something to eat. Many times I would ride into Seaside and stop at Modica's or Roly Poly, buy lunch and walk to a pavilion to enjoy the beauty of the beach. About a month ago,I stopped at Modica's, bought a sandwich, hopped on my bike and stopped at one of the pavilion's to eat and enjoy the beautiful day before returning to work. Within 2 minutes of sitting down and unwrapping my sandwich, I was confronted by a woman who asked if I was a resident of Seaside. Of course I said no I was just eating lunch before returning to work. She then proceeded to tell me that this was private property, I was trespassing and I had to leave or she would call security. Again WOW! I looked around, there was no one on the pavilion, on the beach or anywhere else I could see. I very politely gathered my lunch, bid her a good day and left. I wasn't mad but actually sad, I was not welcome. I will not go back to Seaside at lunchtime and I doubt we will renew our membership to the tennis and fitness club either.

I am perplexed to understand why Seaside would want to encourage this? I say encourage it since obviously it is not discouraged. I doubt that one person would have the authority to place signs at entrances and all around Seaside, so it must be a Seaside majority vote that rules? I guess this is acceptable to Robert Davis as well? I have never met Mr. Davis but admire or shall I say did admire his vision and "new urbanism" approach. If this Seaside is new urbanism then I am not a fan.

I agree that with the limited parking space in front of houses,
people attending events etc, should not park in front of homes. Which leads me to another interesting observation. Golf carts unless they are Seaside golf carts are not allowed? Does it not make more sense that a golf cart would help reduce car traffic and actually be safer and cause less of a parking problem than a full size car? If this is the direction that the Seaside community wants to go then I would suggest installing security gates and issuing passes that only admit Seaside residents. I doubt that the Seaside businesses owners are pleased that customers are being run out of town, but Seaside is doing an effective job of discouraging folks from coming in.

We do not loiter, we pick up trash if it is strewn around, whether it is
Seaside or Seacrest or Grayton Beach or Seagrove. We live here and respect the beauty of all of Walton County.

Tony Lagratta
Seagrove Beach"

Tony, Well said.... and gesh how sad that sharing is down to its "Mine". Oh well, to me its simple.. but hard as well. The law is that.. if we disagree lets advocate to change it.. Not break it. Again my opinion is that a solid line of communication here is what is needed. I respect the people that founded Seaside, I know when all it was , was a sand and dune with low maintained road. Thanks to the founders IMO we now have a wonderful place that shines. But we need to get through this small mental block and work together to make it a positive. Just my opinion again.

[NotnKansas]

Waiting For - wow. That blows my mind. At one time I did live in Seaside - and now I live in Seagrove. But the comments that the 'homeowners' made directly to you really breaks my heart. Seriously. Good people are here. It's all about Karma. Seaside 'homeowners' just need to remember that when they feel like that need to ruin someone's lunch.

[Smiling JOe]

My point of contention is not different than it is with the beach being customarily used by the public for many years. When Seaside was growing over the last twenty five years, they allowed the public to use every access, pavilion and streets. I believe that although that property may be privately owned, since the public has been allowed full access, the public may have some customary use rights to what they are now being permitted from using. Continuing to use that which has customarily been used by the public for numerous years, MAY be staying within the boundaries of the Law. Only a Court can make that decision, and my opinion is not a "legal opinion" on the subject.

[Beach House 25]

My point of contention is not different than it is with the beach being customarily used by the public for many years. When Seaside was growing over the last twenty five years, they allowed the public to use every access, pavilion and streets. I believe that although that property may be privately owned, since the public has been allowed full access, the public may have some customary use rights to what they are now being permitted from using. Continuing to use that which has customarily been used by the public for numerous years, MAY be staying within the boundaries of the Law. Only a Court can make that decision, and my opinion is not a "legal opinion" on the subject.

SJ I am with you 110% on this, I just think things would be different if everyone did not have to pay the penalty for the actions of a few that made a dump out of these folks private property. I respect other peoples property and clean up after myself in public, (Wife made me put "PUBLIC" in there ) But I feel the reason is that folks are sick and tied of paying for something that others just trash and leave behind a mess. I mean its not everyone more than likely its only a few, but than the few seem to be the reason behind some of the actions, all be-it not that I like people ruining a mans lunch but I could understand if that lady seen the mess others left behind and she pays for it? Dunno again communication is a GOOD thing.

[NotnKansas]

Not to point fingers - but most of the damage that I've seen in Seaside are from kids. Kids that feel as though since they are not at home can do what ever they want. Again. Not to point fingers. :)

[jodiFL]

Not to point fingers - but most of the damage that I've seen in Seaside are from kids. Kids that feel as though since they are not at home can do what ever they want. Again. Not to point fingers. :)

I know its sad but.. guess who will inherit that family home and become the new generation of homeowners?? What then?

[Beach House 25]

Not to point fingers - but most of the damage that I've seen in Seaside are from kids. Kids that feel as though since they are not at home can do what ever they want. Again. Not to point fingers. :)

But it is most likely why these folks (With or Without Kids) that live there and pay the bills might feel a bit upset? Society today is another thread, but anyone and I stress the word again ANYONE that See's someone doing something wrong needs to step up and point it out ...1st to the person thats doing it and if that don't work call the authorities. Sorry ...But I feel if someone watches someone leave trash behind or damage property and say nothing then....they are just as guilty as the one who done it.. again just my opinion.

[Teresa]

I would like to point out that the road signs between seaside and seagrove property have been there for at least a few years. I know because I regularly cut through one or both streets. I've never been stopped except once when leaving seaside entering seagrove, a man yelled at me saying this was not a cut through (he was on the seagrove side). I didn't stop to argue. I understand that the residential section is primarily for guests and residents, and respect this. but sometimes you gotta get to the pool or whatever to visit with friends.

once again, I have to say that we've always been treated very well at any time we step foot in Seaside (which is quite often) and enjoy visiting all our friends and their businesses in Seaside. we don't have to wait for an "event" to go. we feel welcome any time. of course, we do choose NOT to go to seaside during peak times/events... that's just asking for headache!

[kurt]

I know its sad but.. guess who will inherit that family home and become the new generation of homeowners?? What then?

Why so bitter? Your posts in this thread match your Grinch avatar. Seaside is not Whoville.

Seaside is all about the kids. The kids are making memories that will last a lifetime. It warms my heart to see kids of all ages playing in Seaside. And adults acting like kids. Most of the kids in Seaside don't own there. They are lucky to be able to visit. Hopefully one day they will grow into fine adults who realize they are lucky.

Now go buy a kid a present, you seasick crocodile.

[scooterbug44]

The attitudes and situations described in this thread show what is a HUGE problem all over this area and country. Sharing and common courtesy is becoming a foreign concept and the sense of community that made people flock here is in danger of disappearing as more and more territorial signs go up every day.

The Seaside pavillions ARE private and people using them inappropriately is a common problem. However, someone renting a home in Seagrove and having a wedding reception or party in a Seaside pavillion is quite a different issue than someone quietly eating a sandwich in one.

Someone parking in your driveway, running over landscaping, or blocking you in is also quite a different issue than someone parking a car in a designated parking space that just happens to be in front of your house.

Someone enjoying the beach in a respectful manner is also quite a different issue than someone holding a noisy kegger on your back porch.

There are obnoxious and rude things people do that justifiably cause complaints and preclude others from using resources and then there are everyday neighborly uses that harm noone. People need to differentiate between the two, stop using lawyers to solve every issue, and get a freakin' grip!

[kurt]

I feel the need to add that you could wander around in Seaside for days without anyone saying anything other than "beautiful day, isn't it"?

I might have to go experiment.

[Beach House 25]

I feel the need to add that you could wander around in Seaside for days without anyone saying anything other than "beautiful day, isn't it"?

I might have to go experiment.

Kurt, Thanks for the "Grounding"! Excellent point!

[Waiting For]

Just realized that stuff like this at Seaside was a thread discussion already, months ago...in September!
Seaside and Private Access - SoWal Beaches Forum

Interestingly though, today, a friend visiting who owns at Seaside said the signs didn't get discussed when the owners had their annual meeting in October...maybe the "chosen frozen few" didn't want the majority of Seaside owners to realize what they were up to?

[NoHall]

I feel the need to add that you could wander around in Seaside for days without anyone saying anything other than "beautiful day, isn't it"?

I might have to go experiment.

That has always been my feeling. I do go there to wander--usually I'll scurry down the street behind the toy store toward the church (I'll go in the church if it's unlocked) and find a place to just sit still and watch the clouds go by. (If there are no clouds, I just look at the clear blue sky until my eyes cross.)

I've never accessed the beach from Seaside, but I've used their bathroom. I've sat on their beaches. I've driven (safely and respectfully) through their streets. I've never heard a peep from anyone.

Am I just lucky?

[Jdarg]

Remember a similar discussion about Rosemary? I don't like the bad karma these "few" are projecting onto the place as a whole, but I can see both sides.

I'm all about Seaside's beaches (the sand) being public- I walk through there all the time. I don't park my chair there because the beach is scrawny and there are many beaches along 30A that are far superior.

I don't think it is out of line to buy lunch and eat it on a walkover or beach, but I do think it is out of line to pull up in a car or pull a wagon full of beach stuff and use the walkovers as if you were staying there. That falls under my "rules of use" test- would you just walk into a resort, condo, or hotel and use their pool, exercise room, or other facilities, just because you dined or shopped there? If you are not staying there, you don't have the right to use these amenities. Apparently this is happening too often and has become noticeable to owners, and I am sure it is aggravating.

I do think it is a bit snarky to be nasty about the Seaside back roads. If someone wants a nice quiet road, they should live in the country, not in a uber high-density community. Just 2 cars seem like a traffic jam because of Seaside's design, but hey, if you like that design and bought in Seaside, you better learn to live with the negatives too. It is my understanding that these are public streets, and we can walk or drive on them. It's a little late in the game to gate off the residential area, and I really doubt that was the original intention of Robert Davis and the New Urbanists.

So, what to do? I will continue to enjoy what Seaside has to offer the public- events, shopping, theater, dining, Bud's, the big "bowl". Why would a town center have been built if it wasn't intended to be a real town center? If somebody that lives there doesn't like us being there, too bad.

This is just a guess, but I bet that many of the unhappy Seasiders have their primary residences in gated communities. Which means they could never understand the concept of Seaside anyway.

[TreeFrog]

I feel the need to add that you could wander around in Seaside for days without anyone saying anything other than "beautiful day, isn't it"?

I might have to go experiment.

I did just that this afternoon. Walked into Roly Poly, bought an ice cream, took it down to the pavilion, ate it, and admired the nice day at the beach, then threw out my own trash.

I guess the "trespass patrol" wasn't out today. Everybody just said hi and went about their business.

[Smiling JOe]

I took it a step farther and drove through the streets and out through the best dirt roads in Seagrove.

Thinking about the big pavilion, Roly Poly used to have a sign there noting the pavilion was the dining pavilion for Roly Poly. I guess Seaside didn't like that.

My personal guess regarding the signs is that Seaside's lawyer thought of this one, after The Retreat put up their private beach signs and ran into confrontation.

Did I mention that I drove to Seaside last night and saw only one car, in addition to mine, in the entire development? I really don't think they are worried too much about trespassers on days like these.

[TreeFrog]

Did I mention that I drove to Seaside last night and saw only one car, in addition to mine, in the entire development? I really don't think they are worried too much about trespassers on days like these.

There weren't too many there this afternoon, either. None of the galleries had any browsers, B&A was quiet, Perspicacity was abandoned, and I got a parking spot right in front of Modica on the first pass.