Where is the National Guard???

[wetwilly]

IMHO it seems that it taking way too long for the National Guard or whomever should be on the ground in NOLA and the gulfcoast to get there. I know the Coast Guard is doing 1000s of rescues but as of late last night (1am et) CNN was reporting that they were nowhere to be found.

It looks like the levy and pump system was not up to snuff or maintained over the years and even with several days of warning between the 1st and 2nd landfall that the feds were napping???

I know it is hard to get inland (even into the port city) and that there must be some Natl Guardsman there somewhere but it looks like it has taken too long or not well planned. Maybe I am wrong on this and I would appreciate anyone that is in the "know" to set me straight. It seems that people get very desperate after 24-36 hours without help in situations like this. Then the desperation leads to looting, lawlessness, or worse etc.

[lollygal]

It was reported this morning on the news that a guy shot and killed his sister over a BAG OF ICE!!

[wetwilly]

It was reported this morning on the news that a guy shot and killed his sister over a BAG OF ICE!!

I heard that on the radio. Getting very desperate down there obviously. Now I heard that they were busing alot of people from NOLA to the Houston Astrodome and that Houston and TX public schools were open immediately to any school age children in need of a school.

But again, where are the Federal troops/personnel that can help try and restore safety? Where is the $@&!# National Guard?

I know we have alot overseas in Iraq and the middle east but we need them home or some deployed asap IMO. Maybe there is a reason that they are not there in force??? Anyone know?

[OhioBeachBum]

IMHO it seems that it taking way too long for the National Guard or whomever should be on the ground in NOLA and the gulfcoast to get there.

You'll recall that a fat load of that infrastructure is off in a stinking desert aiding those with remarkably short-term memories.

It looks like the levy and pump system was not up to snuff or maintained over the years and even with several days of warning between the 1st and 2nd landfall that the feds were napping???

Industrial size pumps employed (however powered) aren't designed to run under water. Straw that toppled the cart was dikes "cost-effectively" designed for a cat 3 storm, in an area where a more substantial storm was inevitable (not if, when), and with a blind eye cast toward the ramifications of a dike breach.

[SlowMovin]

There's a guy running a blog from the 10th Floor of an office building on Poydras (downtown business district near Canal St). He has a diesel generator and a handful of people with him but little else. His descriptions are of complete lawlessness, most of the police are looting or deserting. He describes it as something akin to "Planet of the Apes" or "Lord of the Flies".

You can read it at http://mgno.com/ The posts are in reverse chronological order so you have to read from bottom to top and there are multiple pages.

[drsvelte]

I know it is hard to get inland (even into the port city) and that there must be some Natl Guardsman there somewhere but it looks like it has taken too long or not well planned. Maybe I am wrong on this and I would appreciate anyone that is in the "know" to set me straight. It seems that people get very desperate after 24-36 hours without help in situations like this. Then the desperation leads to looting, lawlessness, or worse etc.

Even in normal times, access to NOLA was not very good. Now there is only one access point to Orleans parish and that is from west of the river over the Crescent City Connection bridge into the Central Business District. I-10 from BR is covered with water near the I-10 & I-610 split and I-10 from the east is closed because the "twin spans" - bridges over Lake Pontchartrain - were severely damaged. They may be able to repair the spans similar to the temporary fix that was done to I-10 bridges over Escambia Bay, but this will still take weeks. The Causeway from the northshore to Metarie and Jefferson Parish was also severely damaged and it is expected to be closed for over a month or more. The Port of New Orleans is closed because many of the navigational bouys and aids were destroyed in the storm plus silt pushed up by Katrina has changed river depths. The system needs to be surveyed and marked before it can be re-opened to ship traffic. It is simply not possible to move that much equipment/personnel into the city in a short period of time.

[Bob]

IMHO it seems that it taking way too long for the National Guard or whomever should be on the ground in NOLA and the gulfcoast to get there. I know the Coast Guard is doing 1000s of rescues but as of late last night (1am et) CNN was reporting that they were nowhere to be found.

It looks like the levy and pump system was not up to snuff or maintained over the years and even with several days of warning between the 1st and 2nd landfall that the feds were napping???

I know it is hard to get inland (even into the port city) and that there must be some Natl Guardsman there somewhere but it looks like it has taken too long or not well planned. Maybe I am wrong on this and I would appreciate anyone that is in the "know" to set me straight. It seems that people get very desperate after 24-36 hours without help in situations like this. Then the desperation leads to looting, lawlessness, or worse etc.

Not to be funny, but there is little ground for the National Guard to be on. Those levees were designed for Cat 3, and were built as designed. I don't think any plans can efficiently deal with any major city being wiped out by flood. It makes movement within the area almost impossible. Feds weren't napping. Bush declared the city a disaster area before the storm hit.

[Miss Kitty]

Did I hear on the news today that the forces on the ground have new orders...Deal with the looters now instead of search and rescue??

[TooFarTampa]

Did I hear on the news today that the forces on the ground have new orders...Deal with the looters now instead of search and rescue??

Yes, that's what they're saying. They've SUSPENDED ALL RESCUES while they try to take control of a relatively small number of criminals.

I am so angry. There are people literally dying outside, waiting for help to come, with no information, no food, no water, no bathrooms. If we can airlift supplies to Afghanistan, why in HELL are there not planes dropping MREs and liquid sustenance? At the very freaking least?

[Camp Creek Kid]

They had hundreds of volunteers on hundreds of small boats ready to go out. The first boats out got shot at and F.E.M.A. has suspended rescue operations until the situation is under control.

It is sad and scary to see how people behave when they are in a situation like this. What would you do for a bottle of water if your child was dying of thirst? Interesting question. We hope that our morality comes from an inner strength and knowledge of what is right and not from the fact that we will go to jail if we're caught doing something wrong.

Would you share your last bottle of water with a stranger?

[wintersbk]

I'm starting to wonder how all these people can go back to a "normal" life. Those that are looting & acting like animals, can they become "civilized" again. This thing seems to be spiraling out of control & I don't know what is going to stop it.

[Camp Creek Kid]

Nobody wants to say this and I don't want of offend. However, the people causing the problems are mostly from the poorest parts of NO. They didn't have much hope before the storm so now there is nothing to lose.

Things will never be normal for them. Its not losing a place to live, a t.v., clothes, etc. Its losing a community, neighbors, friendships, etc. Their place in society is gone. Hopefully many people will look at this tragedy and see opportunity to start new and fresh. They are going to need lots of help and care to get started in the right direction.

[SlowMovin]

What would you do for a bottle of water if your child was dying of thirst?

Probably NOT shoot at the people bringing it to me.

[Travel2Much]

I have wetwilly's same question, although I am in stunned horror and have been for days and am scarcely coherent. Sadly, most of the LA guard is over fighting terrorists in Iraq (so they won't have to fight them at home).

We were able to get water to the remotest areas of Indonesia in the tsunami quicker than to New Orleans.

The NOLA police, for whatever reason or motive or cause, essentially allowed people to arm themselves by Monday night, before the rain even stopped. It was no longer a small number of criminals since Tuesday am.

Complicating matters was the complete destruction of communications systems in NOLA. That threw a wrench into the plan.

FEMA has been practicing on NOLA for several years. If this is the best they can come up with, I want my tax dollars back.

This is what happens when the rule of law breaks down. Shocking to see (for me at least), particularly in your backyard. I now own a charming 3 bedroom house (if it is still there) in Bagdhad.

[Camp Creek Kid]

Probably NOT shoot at the people bringing it to me.

Let me clarify my point. I meant pose a question as something to think about. I'm not supporting the looters. I just think its interesting to think about what we'd do in a situation of desperation. Hopefully we'll never be in a life or death situation like that. I'd rather not have my integrity tested in that way but if I did, I hope that it would bring out the best in me.

[Suncat]

Last night Nancy Grace on CNN asked a government official about the delay in aid, National Guard....He actually said it could be a bureaucratic holdup. Of course she went ballistic on that one. This situation is exactly one of the reasons for the National Guard to exist.

Shooting at the very people trying to help?? Unbelievable, no matter what your station in life.

[CJ]

What happened to all the preperation we have been doing since 9-11? They had a two day warning that this disaster was coming. Why is everything so slow? A terrorist will not be so kind as to let the world know days in advance the attack is coming. Where is our government? Why was Bush still on vacation when this thing hit?


I can't help but wonder why we were able to act so quickly in the business district of Manhattan but not in the poor neighborhoods in a southern city.

[Suncat]

What happened to all the preperation we have been doing since 9-11? They had a two day warning that this disaster was coming. Why is everything so slow? A terrorist will not be so kind as to let the world know days in advance the attack is coming. Where is our government? Why was Bush still on vacation when this thing hit?


I can't help but wonder why we were able to act so quickly in the business district of Manhattan but not in the poor neighborhoods in a southern city.

Very good points, CJ. I think Bush is always on vacation the month of August. I heard one news commentator saying that he went to make speeches in Arizona and San Diego (I think) about Iraq and terrorists as the storm hit.

[Landlocked]

I just saw the biggest convoy I've ever seen on 85 south. It took my breath away. These guys had probably 500 trucks with flags flying. It was truly awesome.

[lollygal]

I just saw the biggest convoy I've ever seen on 85 south. It took my breath away. These guys had probably 500 trucks with flags flying. It was truly awesome.

My friend is on her way back from SoWal. She saw 3 convoys on I65 around Greenville heading south. It's a good feeling to know more help is on the way!

[OhioBeachBum]

I just saw the biggest convoy I've ever seen on 85 south. It took my breath away. These guys had probably 500 trucks with flags flying. It was truly awesome.

[Suncat]

I just saw the biggest convoy I've ever seen on 85 south. It took my breath away. These guys had probably 500 trucks with flags flying. It was truly awesome.

[wetwilly]

I just saw the biggest convoy I've ever seen on 85 south. It took my breath away. These guys had probably 500 trucks with flags flying. It was truly awesome.

Great posts from everyone on this topic. I just heard today that they were sending 1800 Natl Guard personnel per day over the next 3 days. They said that it was to equal the same number of NOLA civilian police normally on the ground (5200). They said that the Guard is trained and deployed for this type of situation, explained that the Coast Guard are all sworn in as law enforcement personal as a matter of duty, and that the active military are not by federal law allowed to be deployed for civilian police action unless in a dire emergency.

Sorry but in doing some math here and 5200 Guardsman (men and woman) may be no match for desperate (some armed) people that number the tens of thaousands. The excuse that it was "red tape" is unbelievable.

I guess at least they are sending them and that is a good thing. I just hope that the situation has not festerd too long and is too far out of control for them to be effective. WOW.

[FoX]

As soon as the winds fell below 50 knots, 12 choppers with about 12 guardsmen each should have been dropped around the city. A little show of force would have kept everyone in line and given everyone hope.

Then you start dropping in food and water on pallets to prevent folks from shooting at your marines.

Then you have troop trucks, buses, and choppers to get people to high ground to tent cities and shelters (FEMA) outside the city.

It ain't rocket science. It's about as simple as it gets.

W was more worried about the heckler lady outside his ranch than Katrina in the gulf.

[kew65]

Check out this Blog entry from http://deadlykatrina.com/**

I am enraged at the President of the United States. I
am a 23 year old female and currently reside on the
Eastern Shore of Maryland, having come from a family
that has served it’s country proudly both in civil
service and in the military. I work as a suicide
hotline operator at a local agency in the town of
Salisbury. While I do not consider myself one of
political advocacy or radicality I feel that something
must be said of the nation’s continual unravelling. I
have planted my feet and remained unspoken at the
events since 9/11 - events that I had found myself
periodically doing body recovery as a rescue swimmer
aboard a 110 ft. Patrol Cutter for during my time in
the military. Events that I wanted to speak out about,
but found no common ground or driving force to do so.
Now I have found an important reason from which to
further educate those around me that have no means, or
are plainly ignorant to the foundations of our rotting
American values.

I was born in the town of Slidell, Louisiana.
(Which has been barely covered by the news with the
exception of minor mentions) Many times while working
the various odd jobs after serving a 2 year stint in
the United States Coast Guard I would be questioned as
to where I was from. With the familiar age old reply
of “Say that again?” or, “Where on earth is that?” I
would smile and reply “30 miles from the French
Quarter in downtown New Orleans.” Occasionally I would
even come across folks from Slidell itself, who would
smile at my services and always reply to my questions
with a “M’aam” at the end of every sentence. They were
courteous, and always engagingly charismatic. This is
not to say that everyone from the state who’s motto is
“Anything Goes” is a perfect saint. Those from the
state of Louisiana are just like any other: average
Americans striving to make ends meet and create a
worthy life for themselves and their family.

Several days ago, Hurrican Katrina wiped out over
85% of my hometown, and currently 80% of the city of
New Orleans is sitting underwater. While Americans are
sitting at home, tuning in to CNN and wondering how
such an atrocity could have occured - there are those
of us that call up memories of certain articles
predicting just such a disaster. The Times-Picayune
reports on August 31st:

In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq
soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20
percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake
Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article,
in New Orleans CityBusiness.

Also that June, with the 2004 hurricane season
starting, the Corps’ project manager Al Naomi went
before a local agency, the East Jefferson Levee
Authority, and essentially begged for $2 million for
urgent work that Washington was now unable to pay for.

In a nation so concerned with military response
and activity overseas, we can now only hope that a
city steeped rich in history and welcoming tourism
will not ultimately lie in ruins. The New Orleans
depicted in travel brochures, movies and even the
popular Mardis Gras draw will undoubtedly no longer
have it’s strangely inviting wonder and beauty.

The question that I pose to others who cannot
fathom an intimate understanding of such an obscenely
large grief is this: “Could you begin to describe your
feelings if the city of your birth was taken off the
map by a disaster that could have been aided through
funding that was severed in favor of an overseas war
with no end in the near future?”

Tomorrow afternoon I will visit my local chapter
of the Red Cross and insist on being sent to Louisiana
to help aid victims and lend my military training for
relief, albeit small. I urge all of you who care about
American freedom and security to aid in your own way,
however small.

With the matter at hand, I am floored by the lack of leadership and organization. The slow responce time from our federal government makes ZERO sense. With the lack of attention to our on intrastucture, I am enraged!

[FoX]

Why are we trying to "fix" the world and make it over in our image (which isn't even close to the ideal model)?

[sarahj]

All of our elected officials need to quit vacationing and watch Tony Zumbado's report on msnbc!!!

[Donna]

Our National Guard couldn't come to the rescue because they are guarding Baghdad while Halliburton lines their pockets rebuilding it. While we're protecting the key assets of the Saudis, our own poorest people are "looting" Walmart for food, water, diapers and other essentials that are the difference between life and death for them. (These are items that would otherwise go on Walmart's inventory insurance claim.) Perhaps our elected officials should think about protecting people who need care and protection the most, that is, poor people who are largely people of color. Tony Lombada's photojournalist report (so dreadful that CNN wouldn't run even a heavily edited version) pretty much says it all. Why was this help so slow in coming, when we watched the horror that was Katrina, sure to make a vicious landing somewhere, for days and days on The Weather Channel?

I have been heartsick all week watching these poor, desperate people. And the truth is that many of them are simply not going to make it, because the help will have arrived too late. I agree with whoever called this a national disgrace. Our friends' daughter, a young doctor at a NO hospital, called in this a.m. to say that the conditions are desperate even in the hospital. Says there is no evidence of humanitarian aid or law enforcement protection whatsoever. She has no idea what will become of the people and staff at the hospital within the next 24 hours and we are extremely concerned about her.

[Suncat]

I have wetwilly's same question, although I am in stunned horror and have been for days and am scarcely coherent. Sadly, most of the LA guard is over fighting terrorists in Iraq (so they won't have to fight them at home).

We were able to get water to the remotest areas of Indonesia in the tsunami quicker than to New Orleans.

The NOLA police, for whatever reason or motive or cause, essentially allowed people to arm themselves by Monday night, before the rain even stopped. It was no longer a small number of criminals since Tuesday am.

Complicating matters was the complete destruction of communications systems in NOLA. That threw a wrench into the plan.

FEMA has been practicing on NOLA for several years. If this is the best they can come up with, I want my tax dollars back.

This is what happens when the rule of law breaks down. Shocking to see (for me at least), particularly in your backyard. I now own a charming 3 bedroom house (if it is still there) in Bagdhad.

I'm sure the terrorists are taking notes on just how easy it would be....
Lord help us all.

[Suncat]

Our National Guard couldn't come to the rescue because they are guarding Baghdad while Halliburton lines their pockets rebuilding it. While we're protecting the key assets of the Saudis, our own poorest people are "looting" Walmart for food, water, diapers and other essentials that are the difference between life and death for them. (These are items that would otherwise go on Walmart's inventory insurance claim.) Perhaps our elected officials should think about protecting people who need care and protection the most, that is, poor people who are largely people of color. Tony Lombada's photojournalist report (so dreadful that CNN wouldn't run even a heavily edited version) pretty much says it all. Why was this help so slow in coming, when we watched the horror that was Katrina, sure to make a vicious landing somewhere, for days and days on The Weather Channel?

I have been heartsick all week watching these poor, desperate people. And the truth is that many of them are simply not going to make it, because the help will have arrived too late. I agree with whoever called this a national disgrace. Our friends' daughter, a young doctor at a NO hospital, called in this a.m. to say that the conditions are desperate even in the hospital. Says there is no evidence of humanitarian aid or law enforcement protection whatsoever. She has no idea what will become of the people and staff at the hospital within the next 24 hours and we are extremely concerned about her.

Amen! In his comments today, W called this catastrophe a "temporary disruption." Please.
Please let us know about your friends' daughter.

[Donna]

News in that helicopters are not flying into NO now because of a report that someone on the ground shot at one. Okay...every time someone fires a gun into the air in Iraq or Afghanistan, we ground all the choppers and tell no one else to go in? We need some perspective here badly.

[wetwilly]

I will repaste my thoughts on this from my post on the looting thread....


Crazy stuff but a snowball effect. All of sudden now they are say 50,000 National Guard on "in the region" and as many as 100,000 are on "stand by".

I wasn't "getting it" either for a day or two and I fancy myself a pretty quick minded person but then I wondered "where is the US Govt aka the National Guard...?"

A coincidence that they waited 3+ days to bring in personnel in large force to aid and secure the area? You decide for yourself if you can even fathom one of the answers. Think about it....seems like little or no supplies/necessities have been airlifted or dropped in. No a conspiracy theorist by nature but this gross neglect of aid after the strom has me scrathin my chin........my head has been hurting all day not to mention my chin.

I am not drawing any conclusions and am not suggesting anything here....just pondering some inner conflict that has me rattled. Make your own decision on why or how this crisis was allowed to get out of hand. All we individually can do is find a way to help anyone in need and then collectively we will help some get thru this. And in parallel kiss/hug our kids and significant other, appreciate our families and friends more today than yesterday, and thank god that at least we have the future. That is more than alot of the people looting and breaking the law feel that they have to look forward to right now.

Unbelieveable.

[Suncat]

There's a guy running a blog from the 10th Floor of an office building on Poydras (downtown business district near Canal St). He has a diesel generator and a handful of people with him but little else. His descriptions are of complete lawlessness, most of the police are looting or deserting. He describes it as something akin to "Planet of the Apes" or "Lord of the Flies".

You can read it at http://mgno.com/ The posts are in reverse chronological order so you have to read from bottom to top and there are multiple pages.

I have just now taken time to read the blog from this website. Everyone should read it--absolutely horrifying. The guy is pleading for active duty military presence immediately as the only hope. I felt like I was reading a Stephen King novel.

[RiverOtter]

News in that helicopters are not flying into NO now because of a report that someone on the ground shot at one. Okay...every time someone fires a gun into the air in Iraq or Afghanistan, we ground all the choppers and tell no one else to go in? We need some perspective here badly.

The choppers that were grounded were not military. They were rescue. The thugs also fired at civilians in their boats trying to rescue people. It is a shame that the govt has to go in with weapons drawn to rescue people and deliver supplies.

Just my .02

River<---no fan of the govt but don't think its their fault--->Otter

[FoX]

By Lolis Eric Elie
Columnist

Years ago, a young South African scholar told me about his trip to America, to Boston, specifically.

I don't know who was in charge of his trip, but either they failed to give him his script or he failed to memorize his lines.

He was supposed to tell me about how wonderful our country is. He was supposed to have been impressed with the vast wealth of this place and with the quality and quantity of the latest technology here.

He was supposed to envy our First World status.

He didn't.

What he remembered from his trip was not our wealth, but our poverty. He was shocked by the slums of Boston.

He wondered about American aid to poor countries. How can you send aid to these places, he asked, when you need such aid in your own poor communities?

What we are watching in New Orleans now is an indictment of our nation.

I can understand why we see refugees in Liberia walking miles in the hope of finding sustenance or safety; often there is little of either in that country. But why are we seeing these same images here?

Do we lack the trains, planes and automobiles to move our people to safety?

I can understand why it takes so much time to get aid halfway across the world, but why does it take so long to get aid to our own Gulf states?

I can understand why lawlessness rules the streets of many poor countries in crisis, but we have a huge standing army. Do we lack the soldiers to police American streets?

I am used to seeing images of desperate people hindering the very relief efforts aimed at saving them. I have seen news reports of refugees looting food shipments. I've even heard of warlords in some countries looting the shipments and then trying to sell food to those so desperate and poor as to be scarcely able to afford it.

But why are we seeing these images and hearing these reports of wanton looting — by at least one police officer, no less —in an American city?

I make no excuses for the looters.

What may have started out as a legitimate attempt to secure the most basic of necessities has quickly turned into a nightmarish free-for-all.

But we shouldn't be surprised that the criminal element that terrorizes New Orleans and just about every other major American city, declined to alter its behavior in the midst of this crisis.

I am surprised, however, that our leaders have failed to provide a more adequate and timely response to all of this.

I am surprised that, in light of the current crisis in New Orleans, that the United States of America can be seen to have so much in common with the poorest and most wretched places on earth.