Defending vehicles on the beach?

[RiverOtter]

I was on Grayton today with my living, breathing, thinking on it's own SUV. Saw 3 others on the beach all day long.... Oh ya.... 4 counting the sherrif

[Smiling JOe]

I have been reading these posts regarding vehicles on the beach, which was brought up in the other thread entitled, Keep off the Dunes, in which I can no longer post to defend myself. A couple of you sound as though you are upset with me for taking and posting photos of people illegally walking through the dunes. The last picture I posted of someone walking through the dunes, was doing so knowingly. I have one thing to say to you, get out of the dunes. Perhaps some of you questing my tactics are violaters yourself, who refuse to walk around. Someone mentioned that it was ironic that I was going after these dune violaters when there are vehicles on the beach. The thread on which I was posting was for people walking through the dunes, and I believe some of the discussion was started on yet another thread which was started by a property owner who was having people cut through his yard, damaging what little was left of it. The fact is, I can show you, via photographs, the damage being done to private property by these people for the entire length of Walton County. These people’s homes are in jeopardy of complete destruction and their property may not be replaced in some instances. Vehicles on the beach are a sepatate topic, and I am glad you brought up the thread. I will be posting on that topic soon. However, for you to insinuate that I am going after the wrong people by posting photos of dune walkers is to put me on either the side of dune violaters on foot, or drivers on the beach. You are going in the wrong direction. If I began targeting Meth lab owners and dealers, would you say that I am wrong for not going after the bigger killers which happen to be legal substances, like alchohol and tobacco? I certainly hope not. This case is not different.

[Smiling JOe]

I appologize for the length, but I have not posted anything worth mentioning for a few days, and needed to run off at the mouth. This kind of running off at the mouth is much better than this kind .
Vehicles on Beach – Personally, I would rather see Grayton Beach State Park, the actual owners of the property in question at Grayton Beach, have this property go back under their control. I hate the concept of large government, but moreso, I hate to see land destroyed by us humans. Walton County currently has a lease on the Beach at Grayton until 2036 I believe. In that lease, the County maintains the right to issue permits to people for driving on the beach. I don’t know why the County would continue to lease the property without having the priviledges which the lease includes, primarily access to the beach. I cannot see owners in Grayton wanting to give this up. They will tell the State to stay out of my back yard and get off my beach.

I cannot say that I see as much driving on the beach much as I see parking on the beach. Sure, the Sheriff’s Office and beach vendors, ie umbrella and chair services, drive, but mostly it is parking. Inlet beach has beach access too, but I don’t believe too many people use it. My understanding is that for a very long time, local residents consisted mostly of people in Pt Washington, Old Town of Santa Rosa, and Grayton Beach. Grayton Beach was the Beach for locals. Many subdivisions and communities have popped up in the last few years, and locals continue to use Grayton as their beach. A problem for all of these people who claim Grayton as their own but live elsewhere, is that there is a lack of parking in Grayton Beach. The parking spaces for the public in Gratyon is probably less than the numbers of vehicles whose owners are eating at the Red Bar on a busy night. Where are these beach goers to park. Can they use your front yard or driveway? Do you even own a yard or driveway in Grayton? Maybe some yes, and some no. Where is the alternative parking for the public’s use? Blue Mtn? WaterColor? Seaside? Blah, blah, blah. There is a grassy public lot between WaterColor and Seaside. Maybe all the locals should parade on the beach at WaterColor? Locals will tell you that they blend into the feeling of Grayton more than any other beach community, and they would not be found on the beach at WaterColor.


If Grayton goes back to the State, vehicles will be prohibited, and they don’t give a hoot about your life long career as a fishing guide, a beach vendor, etc. They may still allow local gov’t access for emergencies, but if they do so, there will always be an access and no dunes in that access. We patrons will surely be charged a daily usage fee of $2 per person per day. Fine by me. Maybe I will be the only one out there. I guess dogs and alcohol are also out of the question. Fine by me, too. My dogs will survive, and I usually drink water when on the Beach. The Beach will close at sunset, now that is a bummer, but I am sure that most people will break that law.


I have recently thrown out the suggestion of grandfathering in current permit holders. Something has to be done for sure, especially as the number of property owners increase and Beach permit stickers become status symbols for peeps.. From now until Memorial Day 2006, you will rarely see more than 10 vehicles on the beach at any one time, but when peak season returns, chaos will follow. I have never seen traffic as a problem on the Beach nor pedistrians at risk of getting hurt by these vehicles, with the exception of July 4, when I would prefer to stay home than get hit by the manics with gunpowder and illegal fireworks.


If not grandfathering in current permit holders, another possible solution to phasing out vehicles could be to grandfather the vehicles with the currnet permits. As owners sell their beach vehicles or fail to renew their permits, they lose the beach driving priviledges for that vehicle. There may always be a 1980 Jeep Wagoneer out there, but there will not be many as the years pass by.


There are certain people whom I think should be exceptions to the phasing out of vehicles, and those would be the handicapped and fishing charter owners who launch at Grayton. Someone mentioned that the handicapped have other accesses on SoWal beaches. To you, I say, get in a wheelchair and show me. Are you blind? The County finally built landing pads at a few ramps last year, which are now nonexistant, and inconsiderate people kicked off there shoes there. (“Oh, this looks like a great place to leave my shoes.”) You could not get a wheelchair on the landings. Still, even for the handicapped who walked, it was a good step off the ramp to get onto the beach.


An even better idea for limiting the number of permits issued may be, only people who are willing to sit through 18 hours of a continuing education class, on the Impact and Effects of Driving on the Beach to the Environment, as well as pay the permit fee, should be allowed a permit. The revenue from permits should go toward the instruction of the class. This would be my choice of limiting the permits.


As for fume on the Beach, I have never had to hold my breath as a car drove by and parked. Perhaps you have Grayton Beach confused with a larger city surrounded by cars. Grayton Beach is one place where I can breathe.


Obstruction of view – yes, the autos often block some great photos, but I am always willing to walk a few hundred meters in either direction to the State Park to get a photo without people or autos.


Vehicle Leakage on the beach -- I have yet to see any spills, but I am sure there has been a leaker or two out there.


Regarding people with vehicles leaving more trash than those on foot -- I see both leaving trash, and I cannot say that I see one group leaving more than the other. My friends who drive on the beach always keep a garbage bag in their vehicles in which they pick up and deposit other people’s trash. Pack it in pack it out. Take out more than you bring in. That is our philosophy.

In summary, I don’t think we will ever see the end of all vehicles on the beach at Grayton Beach due to emergency vehicles needing access. I wish to see some restrictive limit on the number of permits issued, if we allow permits at all. Most legal operators of Beach vehicles seem to be fairly responsible when driving or parking on the beach. As long as any vehicle or pedestrian is allowed on the beach, we will not have dunes blocking off Grayton Beach. Without Beach access, Gulf-front owners can forget about owning Gulf-front property.

[Miss Kitty]

I haven't driven a car on the beach since the '70's in Galveston (Pirate's Beach) where the beach was flat and hard packed. I have only one comment....someone posted the ordinance stating that only residents may obtain beach permits. Is that residents or property owners? I own property in SoWal, but do not consider myself a resident as I am only able to be down there around 6 weeks a year. My residence is in Dallas and unfortunately there is no beach here!!! I do see the problem of parking however, in order to access Grayton Beach. I will not be obtaining a beach permit even though it sure would look awesome in the back window of my SUV...even better than those stickers..."My Child is an Honor Student...." ! I prefer the one that says..."My Dog is Smarter Than Your Honor Student!" I am looking forward to getting a SoWal sticker in October...then when I get back to Dallas, I can drive around with a Nanny nanny boo boo attitude!!!!

[Wildernester]

The Oracle has spoken, but I must respectfully disagree.

[RiverOtter]

Yesterday after a full day of fun at Grayton I used my SUV to rid Grayton of trash left by walkers. Guess they didn't want to walk a few extra steps to the garbage can so I did it for them

[Beachlover2]

Yesterday after a full day of fun at Grayton I used my SUV to rid Grayton of trash left by walkers. Guess they didn't want to walk a few extra steps to the garbage can so I did it for them

I am sure you could have picked up this trash without the use of a vehicle. I am grateful that you did it - I do it all the time - without a vehicle. I understand the need for vehicles on the beach to pick up large debris after the storms etc - but I would be much happier if the only vehicles on the beach were for boat access etc.

[Smiling JOe]

The Oracle has spoken, but I must respectfully disagree.

I can only assume that you are referring to me as "The Oracle." Since I shared several thoughts on the topic, your statement of disagreement is vague. Would you care to address the specific issues of your disagreement with me, or is your's a general feeling of disagreement of which you care not to elaborate?

Please note, I am not looking to get into a sandbox fight with you on this topic. I am just wanting to understand your thoughts of disagreement. I expressed many of my thoughts in that post, so I don't know if you disagree with me on points of Grayton Beach being turned back into the hands of the State, who rightfully own it, or that handicappers and charter captains should be able to buy permits, that the wheelchair landings are not accessable, that education should be part of the permit process, that both walkers and drivers leave debris on the beach, that my friends who drive on the beach haul out more than they take in, that dunes will never seal off Grayton if there is an access, that if the State does not renew the lease there will be a fee to enter and the beach will close at sunset, etc.

Again, to say that you respectfully disagree is too vague, based on the many points which I addressed.

[Smiling JOe]

I am sure you could have picked up this trash without the use of a vehicle. I am grateful that you did it - I do it all the time - without a vehicle. I understand the need for vehicles on the beach to pick up large debris after the storms etc - but I would be much happier if the only vehicles on the beach were for boat access etc.

I cannot speak for RO, but I saw Kurt hauling a load of walkover debris the other day that would still be sitting there next year if not for him.

[Landlocked]

I cannot speak for RO, but I saw Kurt hauling a load of walkover debris the other day that would still be sitting there next year if not for him.

He must be working on that new deck for his home.

[Wildernester]

I can only assume that you are referring to me as "The Oracle." Since I shared several thoughts on the topic, your statement of disagreement is vague. Would you care to address the specific issues of your disagreement with me, or is your's a general feeling of disagreement of which you care not to elaborate?

Please note, I am not looking to get into a sandbox fight with you on this topic. I am just wanting to understand your thoughts of disagreement. I expressed many of my thoughts in that post, so I don't know if you disagree with me on points of Grayton Beach being turned back into the hands of the State, who rightfully own it, or that handicappers and charter captains should be able to buy permits, that the wheelchair landings are not accessable, that education should be part of the permit process, that both walkers and drivers leave debris on the beach, that my friends who drive on the beach haul out more than they take in, that dunes will never seal off Grayton if there is an access, that if the State does not renew the lease there will be a fee to enter and the beach will close at sunset, etc.

Again, to say that you respectfully disagree is too vague, based on the many points which I addressed.

I see no justifiable need for vehicles to be on our little beach for whatever reason, except to save a life or property. To my knowledge, vehicles are not allowed on the beach (with the possible exception of Inlet Beach) anywhere else in Walton or neighboring counties. I have read many of your posts. I respect your views. When it is mutually convenient, I would like to buy you a beer at the Red Bar, so that we can discuss this and other topics at length.

[Smiling JOe]

I see no justifiable need for vehicles to be on our little beach for whatever reason, except to save a life or property. To my knowledge, vehicles are not allowed on the beach (with the possible exception of Inlet Beach) anywhere else in Walton or neighboring counties. I have read many of your posts. I respect your views. When it is mutually convenient, I would like to buy you a beer at the Red Bar, so that we can discuss this and other topics at length.

I appreciate your reply, and now somewhat understand your earlier statement of disagreement, even though it is only a partial disagreement. Thank you for clarifying. You simply do not want vehicles on the Beach, except in the case of emergencies and clean-up/ repairs. Is this an accurate statement? and some may want to address some other issues brought up earlier, including currently licensed fishing charters who launch from Grayton and the Handicapped, to name a couple.

[ShallowsNole]

I see no justifiable need for vehicles to be on our little beach for whatever reason, except to save a life or property. To my knowledge, vehicles are not allowed on the beach (with the possible exception of Inlet Beach) anywhere else in Walton or neighboring counties.

This is precisely why driving on the beach at Grayton is viewed as a "right" or a privilege by many locals. Twenty-five years ago, we could drive on the beach wherever we wanted to, with the exception of Grayton Beach State Park. The only obstacle was the outlets of the lakes, which were great fun to ride through (as a teenager not concerned with the environment) and not getting stuck going down the hill, or coming back up (which required a running start). Two of the favorite accessess, and the most difficult to negotiate, were at One Seagrove Place and at Blue Mountain Beach.

Those days are long gone. In fact, "driving" on the beach is a misnomer. You drive down, at Grayton only, and park. To get the permit, you must be a property owner. This was a compromise to allow locals and those with vacation homes here to be able to launch boats into the gulf.

SJ is stating all sides of the issue much better than I ever could. I'm just trying to give some perspective as to where we've been and where we are now. Folks who are against vehicles on the beach are aghast that vehicles are allowed on the beach in one small area, and those who have driven to or on the beach for years are aghast that there is only small place they can go.

[Miss Kitty]

Thanks SN for that great info. I had asked in an earlier post for someone to clarify who is eligible for a permit...property owners OR residents, as these terms are not one in the same. It never even occured to me to get a permit even though I do pay taxes as a property owner. IMHO, permits should be for emergency, handicapped, vendors, clean-up only. Of course, the problem with that is the parking issue for those that want to CARRY their stuff down to the beach! Maybe a four story parking garage is the ticket!!!!!

[Bob]

I appreciate your reply, and now somewhat understand your earlier statement of disagreement, even though it is only a partial disagreement. Thank you for clarifying. You simply do not want vehicles on the Beach, except in the case of emergencies and clean-up/ repairs. Is this an accurate statement? and some may want to address some other issues brought up earlier, including currently licensed fishing charters who launch from Grayton and the Handicapped, to name a couple.

Here's an easy solution. Limit beach driving permits to only homesteaded residents of Walton County. Any vehicle showing clear evidence of rust-through on any permitted vehicle body panel receives a free dog license. End of problem, back to the old days!

[Wildernester]

Bob-- If you want your avatar to depict Grayton Beach, you need to add SUV tire tracks.

[FoX]

Bob-- If you want your avatar to depict Grayton Beach, you need to add SUV tire tracks.

"Bitter" - table for one!



BTW - Bob's idea is a good one.

[Bob]

Bob-- If you want your avatar to depict Grayton Beach, you need to add SUV tire tracks.

Michelins or Firestones?
Actually I think driving permits being limited to the relatively few that live here full time, and want bring the vehicle would go a long way to mitigate too many vehicles on the beach....unless you are in the camp of one vehicle is too many.

[stormweary]

Glad to see this topic come up for discussion. We always cross over the lake and lug our stuff down into the park area to get away from GRAYTONABEACH - just can't take the SUV's lined up two or three deep with their music in loud competition, the grill's fired up and fishing pole lines trying to snag my neck as I walk by. Got to love the tire ruts that are deep enough to lose a small child and make walking most difficult. And we're not just talking locals here, but anyone in Walton County can get a permit. This may have been fine way back when but I think we have certainly outgrown driving on the beach and I for one will be delighted what it comes to an end.

[Bob]

Glad to see this topic come up for discussion. We always cross over the lake and lug our stuff down into the park area to get away from GRAYTONABEACH - just can't take the SUV's lined up two or three deep with their music in loud competition, the grill's fired up and fishing pole lines trying to snag my neck as I walk by. Got to love the tire ruts that are deep enough to lose a small child and make walking most difficult. And we're not just talking locals here, but anyone in Walton County can get a permit. This may have been fine way back when but I think we have certainly outgrown driving on the beach and I for one will be delighted what it comes to an end.

What percentage of SoWal's beaches are people now driving on ????

[kurt]

What percentage of SoWal's beaches are people now driving on ????

A few hundred yards in Grayton and Inlet out of 26 miles.

[Bob]

A few hundred yards in Grayton and Inlet out of 26 miles.

Then what is the harm? It seems to me this is a way for many locals north of 98 to come watch the sun go down after a day of work. Community spirit is all good by me.

[aquaticbiology]

Mother Nature is highly resilient, ruts and tire tracks fill in over time and tide, and as long as you don't run over a turtle nest or leave any crap behind, the beach (flat, sandy part) really dosen't care if you drive on it. The only real point in question is what you run over on the way to get to the beach. Dunes and small children not withstanding, there's places out there that will not be adversly affected, such as emergency vehicle accesses, that have been built specifically for crossing vehicles onto the beach. Any access other than one that has been specifically built for vehicular travel will be damaged forever.

If I only had a picture:
Back in the day, sitting at the Hang Out (now Schooner's) in PCB sipping a cold one, trying really hard not to look and stifling belly laughs for fear of retribution, watching Officer Whatsit in his brand new Ford Bronco II 'Beach Patrol Vehicle' spinning all four wheels and just sinking even deeper in about 2' waves after he tried to edge around a seawall at high tide.

[kurt]

Then what is the harm? It seems to me this is a way for many locals north of 98 to come watch the sun go down after a day of work. Community spirit is all good by me.

That's pretty much the case now - but with a lot of property owners vacationing in the Summer it gets a little more crowded every year. Just the facts.

The real problem will be in the coming years as thousands of lots north of 30-A and south and north of the bay are built on, and most new homeowners will want to drive on at Grayton.

And if they can't, where will they go? Parking on 30-A will be very scarce.

[up4golf]

look anywhere on the beach in walton county you will see tire tracks more than it seems just the tdc clean up truck would leave. it is the beach road paved with sand and more traffic to come, get youself some sanddiggers and take a ride. please leave your bullets at home

[Smiling JOe]

You speak in foreign tongues.

[Beach House 25]

You speak in foreign tongues.

Thanks SJ. I was worried there for awhile, I reread that post several times, Thinking I was missing something. I am now convinced that the message is missing something and not me LOL...Thanks!

[Wildernester]

SJ--

It is interesting to see this old thread resurrected after a couple of years. I am still a strong anti. Are you still a moderate pro?

--WN

[Smiling JOe]

I have my plus and minus list of driving (it is more like "parking") on the beach. Yes, there are problems with it. If it is not controlled in some reasonable manner, it will grow out of hand. On many days in the summer, it is a HUGE problem. On days like today, you may see one or two vehicles all day. I think the real problem has more to do with the County not having enough parking in Grayton, nor a reasonable and effective transportation system. They still are not addressing this increasing problem.

[jodiFL]

I am still a strong anti. Are you still a moderate pro?

Well since this is the first I saw of this thread ..I will stand with alot of others here and be a "STRONG PRO". Sorry if you dont like how its done here....guess you should have thought about that before buying property here. Being able to drive to beach at Grayton (IF you own property here) is just one of the many perks. Get used to it. Others before you have tried to take away this freedom and they have failed.

[Wildernester]

SJ--

While I remain a strong anti (lower case) due environmental and safety concerns, I always appreciate your well-reasoned pro position. --I'll say quiet for another couple of years.--

--WN