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Thread: Grayton Beach Drowning


  1. #1
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    Grayton Beach Drowning

    http://www.wmbb.com/gulfcoastwest/mb...3-22-0008.html

    "The Walton County Sheriff's Office responded to a water rescue approximately 1pm today at Grayton Beach State Park. Emergency calls to 9-1-1 stated that there was an overturned kayak in the water that appears to be in trouble. Units from the Beach Patrol Unit immediately responded to the scene. It appears that an adult white male, approximately 55 years old, was kayaking with a juvenile boy, believed to be his son, when the kayak overturned. The son was able to swim 75-100 yards to shore but the father was not."

    Just a reminder kids, that calm as it usually is, the Gulf is not a swimming pool. Here's hoping this is the last fatality we get this year.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    I had heard that the sirens were rolling all day. I know the flags were flying red and the Gulf was looking dangerous. This is a sad story. Where are their life jackets? There are days when when I don't wear one while kayaking, but I know when the water is a little ruff, my life jacket may be the only thing to save my life if I get dumped. I am really saddend by reading of this tragedy. Let this story remind us all that we never know how or when we may be plucked from life and returned to dust.


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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    ...I checked the beach cam before coming here and saw the red flags flying. I was wondering why more people were not on the beach. I wish people would wear those life jackets...they do save lives.
    Which community along 30A shall we pillage this evening?....gttbm

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    So sad.
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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    I love Jesus, but I drink a little. ~Gladys
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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    I am so sorry to hear this.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Terrible. Doesn't red flag mean DON"T GO IN THE GULF -HIGH HAZARD? Doesn't that mean boats/kayaks/surfboards, not just swimmers? I am very sorry for this family, it is truly a terrible tragedy. People must realize those flags are for EVERYONE, we can prevent unnecessary accidents!

    I know I'm assuming the red flag was flying when they went in. If it wasn't my apologies. I just hate that someone has to die for attention to be drawn to safety!
    It was kind of like Meat and Potatoes - Simon Cowell

  8. #8

    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    There was also a drowning around 4 pm in Miramar Beach today. According to the Walton Sun, they double red flagged all the beaches in Walton County after the second drowning. I was driving down the beach road when all of the fire trucks were attempting the 2nd rescue, and was SHOCKED to see how many people don't pay attention to the red flags. There were so many people in the water. It's really a shame and it should be enforced a little better - - especially this time of year.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by supermom26.2 View Post
    Terrible. Doesn't red flag mean DON"T GO IN THE GULF -HIGH HAZARD? Doesn't that mean boats/kayaks/surfboards, not just swimmers?
    Single red means it's very dangerous in terms of undertow which means there's usually good waves for surfboards and kayaks if that's your thing, but not mandatory to stay out of the water.

    Only DOUBLE RED means everyone stays out.

    If that kayak was rented then I'm sure the renters liability insurance requires giving them vests. However, they can't make people wear them if that is the case.

    Either way, it is indeed sad. I hate to see that.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Was it a single or double red flag day?

    I see my answer above! Too bad....


    Know Before You Go! http://www.seemoresafetycrab.com/
    Last edited by Ocean Lover; 03-22-2007 at 07:23 PM.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by FLSunChaser View Post
    It's really a shame and it should be enforced a little better - - especially this time of year.
    Safety needs to start with the individual. Adults should heed the rules and make sure their kids do too. It is impossible to "enforce" the rules if people choose to disregard them.
    If you are lucky enough to live by the sea, you are lucky enough.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    So sad.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Even a single red flag means high risk! Why put your life in jeopardy? I know I'm freaked out about safety right now, but there are a lot of people here, sharing the same space. We all need to be looking out for one another and be alert. I don't want my kids to have to hear about drownings when there are red flags posted! I don't know if I'm making sense because this is so upsetting!
    It was kind of like Meat and Potatoes - Simon Cowell

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Ned is fairly close with his description of red flags, but let me clarify. Only double red flag means you will get a ticket from the Sheriff's office if you don't drown first. Surfboarders can still go in during double red, with the key part of the rule being that the floatation device must be secured to your person. Kayaks would not meet this rule as they do not come with leashes. I am not certain but the way I understand it, you could kayak if you were wearing a life vest, but get ready to lose something like your kayak or paddle.

    I know that one local rental business recently changed ownership, but from what I used to see in the past from many companies (which may not have followed the rules to the "T," I don't recall seeing life vests tied to the kayaks and paddles that are often delivered. I would think that they would issue warnings encouraging the rentors to not go out in bad weather and to look for the warning flags as a guide -- yellow meaning take precaution! Red meaning - you shouldn't risk it, and double red -- not allowed.

    Today, after hearing of the first drowning, I got to thinking. It seems that we never have just one person drown on a day when the rip currents are bad. I know the Fire Dept is in charge of flying the flags, and on days like today, they probably spend much time on alert and don't always have a chance to change the flags. (now, the lifeguards are out and about in some places so they can change those flags) Anyhoo, I was thinking that immediately after the first water rescue on any day, maybe they should raise a black flag. I think everyone would have a clue of what that might mean -- sign of mourning. It could possibly stop someone else from taking the risk of going into the Gulf. When the black flag is flying, you should keep your butt on shore.


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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning


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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Thank SJ, present your idea the the TDC/Sherrifs/Fire Dept and whomever else are the decision makers!
    It was kind of like Meat and Potatoes - Simon Cowell

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by supermom26.2 View Post
    Thank SJ, present your idea the the TDC/Sherrifs/Fire Dept and whomever else are the decision makers!

    It is a good idea, BUT more than likely they would never do that. They like to keep these type things (ie. drownings/shark attacks) as quiet as possible and raising a black flag may be seen by tourists as "death beach."

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    it was red flag when we drove out onto grayton around 4:30 this afternoon. we saw beach patrol and the medical lift helicopter flying over. then we saw the FD change to double red flag around 6pm. we knew something had happened.

    listen, if it is a red flag, just stay out of the gulf. why wait for a double red flag? it could be too late.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by TNJed View Post
    It is a good idea, BUT more than likely they would never do that. They like to keep these type things (ie. drownings/shark attacks) as quiet as possible and raising a black flag may be seen by tourists as "death beach."
    I know the TDC is all about making everything warm and sunny with cheery smiles. Look at Seamore the Beach Flag Crab. I guess I see him educating the kids. Since usually, it is the adults whom drown, maybe we need something like the black flag to educate the adults.
    After numerous drownings in the area over the last few years, I suggested that rather than flying the second red flag with the icon of the no swimming for Closed Water, that second flag should have an icon of a man freaking out and sinking -- either that or a black flag with skull and crossbones (POISON symbol)

    Some days around here, it is death beach. I can think of nothing better than national news promoting our flag warning system. Then news stories might be something along these lines, "in the past, they had multiple drownings in a single day, now with the new black flag of mouring, they have decreased the number of drownings on the days when the waters are really fierce with strong rip currents."... I would rather see more people not going in the water on these days, especially when other people have drowned only a few miles away, and this will keep if from becoming death beach. If you saw a black flag being raised on the beach, wouldn't you be questioning what is up with that, and think twice about going into the water on that day. Don't think it didn't make the national news when we had about 15 drownings and even more rescues in one day in Walton and Okaloosa Counties, back around 2005. Maybe flying a black flag prevents 14 of the drownings and in turn, prevents the death beach from becoming death beach. If you are not being proactive in today's world, you are following behind.


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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by Smiling JOe View Post
    I know the TDC is all about making everything warm and sunny with cheery smiles. Look at Seamore the Beach Flag Crab. I guess I see him educating the kids. Since usually, it is the adults whom drown, maybe we need something like the black flag to educate the adults.
    After numerous drownings in the area over the last few years, I suggested that rather than flying the second red flag with the icon of the no swimming for Closed Water, that second flag should have an icon of a man freaking out and sinking -- either that or a black flag with skull and crossbones (POISON symbol)

    Some days around here, it is death beach. I can think of nothing better than national news promoting our flag warning system. Then news stories might be something along these lines, "in the past, they had multiple drownings in a single day, now with the new black flag of mouring, they have decreased the number of drownings on the days when the waters are really fierce with strong rip currents."... I would rather see more people not going in the water on these days, especially when other people have drowned only a few miles away, and this will keep if from becoming death beach. If you saw a black flag being raised on the beach, wouldn't you be questioning what is up with that, and think twice about going into the water on that day. Don't think it didn't make the national news when we had about 15 drownings and even more rescues in one day in Walton and Okaloosa Counties, back around 2005. Maybe flying a black flag prevents 14 of the drownings and in turn, prevents the death beach from becoming death beach. If you are not being proactive in today's world, you are following behind.
    SJ, you are so right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tootsie View Post
    it was red flag when we drove out onto grayton around 4:30 this afternoon. we saw beach patrol and the medical lift helicopter flying over. then we saw the FD change to double red flag around 6pm. we knew something had happened.

    listen, if it is a red flag, just stay out of the gulf. why wait for a double red flag? it could be too late.
    Exactly!

    I wish it was just a 1 red flag system and they closed the water, period. It would be easier to police and save more lives!
    It was kind of like Meat and Potatoes - Simon Cowell

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by Smiling JOe View Post
    I know the TDC is all about making everything warm and sunny with cheery smiles. Look at Seamore the Beach Flag Crab. I guess I see him educating the kids. Since usually, it is the adults whom drown, maybe we need something like the black flag to educate the adults.

    After numerous drownings in the area over the last few years, I suggested that rather than flying the second red flag with the icon of the no swimming for Closed Water, that second flag should have an icon of a man freaking out and sinking -- either that or a black flag with skull and crossbones (POISON symbol)

    Some days around here, it is death beach. I can think of nothing better than national news promoting our flag warning system. Then news stories might be something along these lines, "in the past, they had multiple drownings in a single day, now with the new black flag of mouring, they have decreased the number of drownings on the days when the waters are really fierce with strong rip currents."... I would rather see more people not going in the water on these days, especially when other people have drowned only a few miles away, and this will keep if from becoming death beach. If you saw a black flag being raised on the beach, wouldn't you be questioning what is up with that, and think twice about going into the water on that day. Don't think it didn't make the national news when we had about 15 drownings and even more rescues in one day in Walton and Okaloosa Counties, back around 2005. Maybe flying a black flag prevents 14 of the drownings and in turn, prevents the death beach from becoming death beach. If you are not being proactive in today's world, you are following behind.


    Again, I agree with you all around, but if they don't see 2 red flags would a black one get their attention any more? It would to those who see the flags a lot, but to those who are only here 1 week a year? Who knows? It would be worth a shot though!

    I do know one thing; when folks are able to get away and come down for their 1 or 2 weeks of vacation a year, come double red flag or high water they're going to get in some ocean time. I can't tell you the number of people last year I had to suggest it was a good idea to get out of the water as lightning was hitting. Nobody needs a flag to know lightning will kill you but there they are, swimming in a lightning storm.

    To borrow a quote from Upton Sinclair which appears in An Inconvenient Truth, "You can't make a man understand something if their salary depends upon them not understanding it." Replace "salary" with "enjoyment" and it may hold relevence to our discussion.

    I'm for whatever saves lives. Good discussion, unfortunate day.
    Last edited by TNJed; 03-22-2007 at 10:01 PM.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by TNJed View Post
    Again, I agree with you all around, but if they don't see 2 red flags would a black one get their attention any more? It would to those who see the flags a lot, but to those who are only here 1 week a year? Who knows? It would be worth a shot though!

    I do know one thing; when folks are able to get away and come down for their 1 or 2 weeks of vacation a year, come double red flag or high water they're going to get in some ocean time. I can't tell you the number of people last year I had to suggest it was a good idea to get out of the water as lightning was hitting. Nobody needs a flag to know lightning will kill you but there they are, swimming in a lightning storm.

    To borrow a quote from Upton Sinclair which appears in An Inconvenient Truth, "You can't make a man understand something if their salary depends upon them not understanding it." Replace "salary" with "enjoyment" and it may hold relevence to our discussion.

    I'm for whatever saves lives. Good discussion, unfortunate day.
    Right as well!
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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    What a tragic, sad story, my prayers go out to the family.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by ktschris View Post
    What a tragic, sad story, my prayers go out to the family.
    I hear you. Me too. I cannot come close to being able to put myself in the perspective of the kid who was with his dad when he drowned as the kid was able to make it back to shore. There will be some difficult years ahead for that young man.


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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by TNJed View Post
    I do know one thing; when folks are able to get away and come down for their 1 or 2 weeks of vacation a year, come double red flag or high water they're going to get in some ocean time. I can't tell you the number of people last year I had to suggest it was a good idea to get out of the water as lightning was hitting. Nobody needs a flag to know lightning will kill you but there they are, swimming in a lightning storm.
    Exactly. I don't know how many times I've heard stories of the Sheriff's Department being out there with a bullhorn ordering people out of the water because of dangerous conditions, and then people turning around and going back in the water as soon as the deputy drives back away.

    It's like this whole attitude of "I'm on vacation. Nothing bad could possibly happen to me while I'm on vacation." that carries over into other reckless behavior in other areas as well. If you look at the lists of area drowning deaths by hometown, it's extremely rare to see a local town on that list because the local sees the red flags, knows what that means, and comes back the next day, or the next Saturday.

    Me, I'll swim in single red flag conditions if I feel like it's safe enough, but I'm also a better open water swimmer than 99.5% of the American public will ever be, and I understand how to get myself out of trouble if need be.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    This is so sad. It seems to be one of those situations where there is no perfect answer. They will never be able to police the Gulf. People need to watch the flags and just because you see a surfer does not mean it is safe. We have a flotation device attached to our leg and experienced in the water. Society can not regulate everything. People have to pay attention! Five gallon buckets can be deadly too.
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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Not wearing a life jacket is just plain crazy. In my job I sadly have to investigate drownings and it's always so tragic and senseless because a simple life jacket would have saved a life in nearly every case. The new light weight auto-inflatable life jackets are so easy to wear, so light-weight and you can't even tell you have one one. They only inflate if you hit the water. No excuse for not wearing a life jacket.

    Double dumb that anyone would go out on a red flag day.

    How sad for the family
    Last edited by luvthebeach; 03-23-2007 at 09:22 AM.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    This is an extrememly sad story. This happens many times every year around Florida. I have to say that more regulation is not the answer though. People need to make more intelligent decisions. When they put out a red flag it means it's dangerous. People are given an obvious sign here and still decide to do as they see fit. I have no problem with that honestly. I think it's the same with enforcing a seatbelt law. I just don't think we need to put so many regulations on someone risking their own life.
    Just another perspective.

  29. Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    A sad story indeed. Check out the product on this website --- an instantly inflatable belt pack floatation device. It's a little expensive but a worthwile investment. Would be great if they could come up with a more affordable product.

    http://www.landfallnavigation.com/sm3020.html

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning


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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning



    "know before you go" Way to set the example, ladies.


    BTW, this sign is posted at the entrance to the walkover in Grayton Beach State Park (camping access).
    Last edited by Smiling JOe; 03-23-2007 at 01:21 PM.


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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by Smiling JOe View Post


    "know before you go" Way to set the example, ladies.
    ~If Life is a journey....the BEACH should be the destination!~

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    very sad way to start a beautiful year

    How about getting the weather service to issue and alert

    They do it if there is a threat.........plan and simple


    This is a threat to all of us. how about the same sence of urgency ??

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Last night, I heard that there was a third drowning victim in the area on that day, but I haven't heard any details, other than the victim was unidentified. Has anyone else heard this? Any details?


  35. #35

    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    So very sad-My prayers are with the families of the lost swimmers.

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    My prayers here too...

    But, we have many visitors who, even with Seemore the Safety Crab's happy dance, have no clue what the beach flags mean. Or, worse yet, don't care. Many of our guests (not all, but you'd be surprised) feel that since they paid $$$$ to be here; we should guarantee them a damned good time.

    I work in the office that collects the fines for citations issued, and you would NOT believe some of the nasty, hateful notes and comments that we receive with the payments for beach citations.
    Go Seminoles...fight team fight...SCALP'EM!!

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Yes, this is so sad.

    We framed the Seymore crab beach flag information and put the framed picture by the dining room table hoping guests will pay attention. I think putting another one in the kids' bathroom as well as parents' bathroom would be useful, too. If parents don't listen, sometimes kids will remind them (that's how we stopped drinking soda pop at our house -- it was pressure from the kids who learned that in school!).
    Paula

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    We love the panhandle and especially Grayton, but anymore, we just walk ankle deep in the water. About 10 years maybe, we began noticing all of the 'seaweed' in the water and that was discouraging - so we would stay out on those days.
    Then a few years ago, either the water has changed dramatically or the drownings are being publicized further away. A woman in Indiana drowned just before we came down there.
    But not just the panhandle. We were in Fort Lauderdale (for the Orange Bowl:-) and in one day, there was one drowning and more people rescued than usually in a month.
    The waters aren't so friendly any more. I'm not one for a pool when I go to Florida, but that might become a search criteria for an occasional cooling off.
    We do like to bring our bikes so we're not one dimensional.
    These deaths are so disconcerting at any time, but can you image if you are on vacation, away from home, and have to deal with this.
    I don't think people will quit going to the beaches - yes there will be some who go elsewhere, but anymore, people do so many other things.
    Yes, please alert people to the risks somehow.
    Go Cards

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by UofL View Post
    We love the panhandle and especially Grayton, but anymore, we just walk ankle deep in the water. About 10 years maybe, we began noticing all of the 'seaweed' in the water and that was discouraging - so we would stay out on those days.
    Then a few years ago, either the water has changed dramatically or the drownings are being publicized further away. A woman in Indiana drowned just before we came down there.
    But not just the panhandle. We were in Fort Lauderdale (for the Orange Bowl:-) and in one day, there was one drowning and more people rescued than usually in a month.
    The waters aren't so friendly any more. I'm not one for a pool when I go to Florida, but that might become a search criteria for an occasional cooling off.
    We do like to bring our bikes so we're not one dimensional.
    These deaths are so disconcerting at any time, but can you image if you are on vacation, away from home, and have to deal with this.
    I don't think people will quit going to the beaches - yes there will be some who go elsewhere, but anymore, people do so many other things.
    Yes, please alert people to the risks somehow.
    Beware the seaweed soaked beaches of death

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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by TNJed View Post
    Again, I agree with you all around, but if they don't see 2 red flags would a black one get their attention any more? It would to those who see the flags a lot, but to those who are only here 1 week a year? Who knows? It would be worth a shot though!

    I do know one thing; when folks are able to get away and come down for their 1 or 2 weeks of vacation a year, come double red flag or high water they're going to get in some ocean time. I can't tell you the number of people last year I had to suggest it was a good idea to get out of the water as lightning was hitting. Nobody needs a flag to know lightning will kill you but there they are, swimming in a lightning storm.

    To borrow a quote from Upton Sinclair which appears in An Inconvenient Truth, "You can't make a man understand something if their salary depends upon them not understanding it." Replace "salary" with "enjoyment" and it may hold relevence to our discussion.

    I'm for whatever saves lives. Good discussion, unfortunate day.

    Two ideas:

    1. Get the airplanes that fly with the banners behind them promoting local restaurants, souvenir shops, etc. fly a "Beach Closed", "Dangerous Waters", or maybe even "There May or May Not Be Sharks in the Water". Anything to get people out of the water.

    2. Since the sheriff's department and fire/lifeguard departments are really undermanned, why not create a network of volunteers that would be able to go to their designated beach area when red flags are posted and advise people on the beach.

    Realize that most people on the beach usually dont turn around, locate the nearest flag, and check the color before going in the water.

    These are just ideas. Aside from these and the existing flag system, residents are just going to get out of their comfort zone and tell people around us that they need to get out of the water when red flags are flying.

  41. #41
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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by scenethief View Post
    Two ideas:

    1. Get the airplanes that fly with the banners ... fly a "There May or May Not Be Sharks in the Water". Anything to get people out of the water.

    2. Since the sheriff's department and fire/lifeguard departments are really undermanned, why not create a network of volunteers that would be able to go to their designated beach area when red flags are posted and advise people on the beach.


    Aside from these and the existing flag system, residents are just going to get out of their comfort zone and tell people around us that they need to get out of the water when red flags are flying.
    Just curious as to how you think it would benefit anyone by having a plane fly a banner which states that there "may not be sharks in the water?"

    On the other idea, I don't tell anyone about the flags unless they ask, or if I overhear their conversation questioning the flags' meanings. People often tell me that they are pretty much told to F O when informing "swimmers" that they shouldn't be in the water.

    Days like today, when the currents are pushing at least 3 mph and the seas are rough as they were, I am surprised to see that the double reds weren't flying. I just don't get that. On recent Chamber of Commerce days (picture perfect flat water), I've seen yellow flages flying, and today, not closed water?

    I'm really getting to the point where my philosophy is "sink or swim, or stay out of the *^#@#@ %$%@ water!"
    Last edited by Smiling JOe; 04-15-2007 at 11:17 PM.


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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by Smiling JOe View Post

    I'm really getting to the point where my philosophy is "sink or swim, or stay out of the *^#@#@ %$%@ water!"
    My feelings exactly!!!! We can not govern everything.
    www.30ALocal.com
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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    All I can say is the flag system was made clear to us from the packet we recieved from the rental company and it was posted on the refridgerator in the condo. A flag was visible from our walkway yet we saw many people in the water every day. (spring break) The life guard was going into the water to tell people to get out, yet when he walked away they either got back in or someone else would. Parents were letting small kids play and boogie board in the more shallow water and I really was afraid one of them would get swept away. I'm sure they thought that was "okay" and nothing would happen to them. Thank God nothing did happen.

  44. #44

    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    consistancy to our flag system is a key. when we have a red flag out on clearly a green day we have problems. Last week, I had family in town that stayed on the beach.
    Two of the days, the water was flat as a lake, I even took my 6 year old niece out on a surf board, yet we had a red flag. I witnessed 4 families heading down to the water and stating that the flag should be green. Two days later when the water got up, and a red flag was needed and flying, people did not believe it. We must have a consistent approach.

  45. #45
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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Aren't the flags raised on a given day the same throughout Walton County regardless of individual beach conditions? Perhaps if one area, no matter how small, is in yellow or red conditions then the entire county gets the same flag.

    I have no knowledge of this being the case, but I could understand it as currents move and they wouldn't want to fly green flags everywhere if a yellow or red condition was present and likely to move. Maybe there just aren't enough employees to spot check all the beaches throughout the day?


  46. #46
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    Re: Grayton Beach Drowning

    Quote Originally Posted by peaboy View Post
    consistancy to our flag system is a key. when we have a red flag out on clearly a green day we have problems. Last week, I had family in town that stayed on the beach.
    Two of the days, the water was flat as a lake, I even took my 6 year old niece out on a surf board, yet we had a red flag. I witnessed 4 families heading down to the water and stating that the flag should be green. Two days later when the water got up, and a red flag was needed and flying, people did not believe it. We must have a consistent approach.
    Touche...
    I have seen flags that do not match the surf far too often.
    The bottom line is that the individuals are solely responsible for their actions. I doubt that you will ever see the county playing a much larger part because it could ultimately wind up being a liability case down the road.
    "No, I don't skinny-dip. I chunky-dunk."


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