four lane for Chat Holley Rd.

[swantree]

has anyone heard about this and have any info to put out there? Opinions? i was told that it was to give relief of 331 and 98 west bound. Seems like a drastic measure put on the blue collar district of Sowal.

[kurt]

There are plans to 4-lane it and also a connector east from 331 through Point Washington as well.

[Smiling JOe]

The County Commissioners voted to do nothing with the study results. There was too much opposition to extending the roads, with estimated costs of more than $30 million. Comm. Meadows suggested that there were much better ways to spend taxpayer's money than on such a project at this time. That meeting was probably back around Aug '05. Just last week, I threw away the over-sized map marking the 4 potential routes.

[swantree]

i was just reviving this thread....i Know SJ has said it was canned but i've been hearing rumors again...I know of one land owner that is looking to make North Eden a cut through to 98 ....I guess my logic is will it be safe for bikes and pedestrians and how could north 98ers get to the beach safely and not drive?

[Smiling JOe]

I know what you intend by your word choice, but I want to clarify. The expansions weren't "canned." The decision by the BCC was to take no action at that time with the expensive study, due to many commissioners and the majority of the public thinking that there were better ways to spend the massive amounts of money it would cost. One thing in particular which was mentioned is the fact that having relief from hwy 98 in hurricane evacuation does nothing if the traffic turns into one northbound lane at the Clyde Wells Bridge, crossing the Choctawhatchee Bay. So, after the Bridge is expanded, they might pull this study back off the shelf, but for now, they are supposedly doing nothing with the studies for additional roads. As I recall, in that study, there was no suggestions for more cut throughs from 98 to Chat Holly. There was however, talk of a cut through from East Mack Bayou to Hwy 98, but I think that was not included in this particular study.

[ShallowsNole]

The thought of putting a four-lane road, combined with the large number of children living directly on and in close proximity to Chat Holley (and for that matter, West and East Point Washington Rd), scares the bejezzus out of me. If 98 hadn't been four-laned, then yeah. But except for when there is an accident or construction, we don't experience congestion on 98 now, until you get to around Grand Boulevard.

[JustaLocal]

i was just reviving this thread....i Know SJ has said it was canned but i've been hearing rumors again...I know of one land owner that is looking to make North Eden a cut through to 98 ....I guess my logic is will it be safe for bikes and pedestrians and how could north 98ers get to the beach safely and not drive?

It depends on where you are and how brave. I bicycle to the beach. I have to ride on Hwy 98 to get to either the west end of 30A or Thompson Road. I've used 393 a few times, but it is pretty scary going south - a good deal of traffic and uphill. Once you get to the top of the ridge, there is a bike path. Coming back north, at least it is mostly downhill once the path ends.

Last week I rode down to 83 because I remembered seeing a bike path on it from the 30A end. Unfortunately, it only goes for a couple of blocks. Most of 83 doesn't have one. There isn't too much traffic on it, but someone passed me while cars were coming from the other direction - coincidentally, right beside a "Share the Road" sign. Also, it does involve riding on Hwy 98 in the 65 mph zone a short way.

East of Hwy 331, I've only ridden on bikepaths and through developments.

[scooterbug44]

It's been a couple years since I lived on Chat Holley, but I never saw enough traffic to justify four lanes. Repaving is overdue, four lanes seems excessive unless it's part of a long term plan for expansion and evacuation. Pretty silly IMO to four lane a road when it's connectors aren't even paved!

[Sea Sothebys]

I would love to see 393N get a sidewalk-- does anyone know if that is a possibility?

[Smiling JOe]

393, all the way from 30A to the Bay, including the dirt road part, is on the books to be approved as Scenic Corridor. Getting the designation means getting funds and grants to build sidewalks and multi-use paths.

[swantree]

i guess my intent here is that someday this will be a hot topic and all of us on the north side of 98 will be effected. I would hate for a 4 lane to go in because of some study to deflect the amount of traffic off 98 to a LOCAL access makes me shudder. I've seen the road by Home depot get so clogged in the summer....... even if it's 5 years down the line, IMO would like to see a very pedestrian friendly road that would help me not worry about seeing a kid trying to get to school on a bike (mine included) and the ability to access the beach safely. When 283 was being re-done and a bike path put in..i became very excited to think persons could get on 30A with a little effort. then nothing came of it. I'm glad it's there! i'm not complaining....but in light of things hitting SoWallers smack in the face before it's to late.....ie...blue monsters! We should be putting some thought to this for a later date! We see the power of the people here and now...N. 98ers ....need not be left out to pasture because 30A and the tourists become so important we can't push for safe travels for locals.

[Smiling JOe]

If you want safer roads, start with the four-laning of 331. Since Friday, I have encountered four drivers passing multiple vehicles as they approach me at lightning speed in my lane. It is getting maddening, and makes me want to throw up a little in my mouth.

[Furthur]

Before we 4 lane Chat Holly we should insist that all new development on 98 have their own slow down turn lanes. Cars slowing in the right lane to make turns really bogs traffic down.

No more curb cuts without turn lanes!

I still don't understand why they didn't put a right turn lane on the corner of 393 when it was redone.

[hnooe]

Allied question: Who in Walton history is/was Chat Holley? Or, is it a type of tree?

[ShallowsNole]

Chat Holley: long-time local pioneer. I can still picture his old white farm-type house, on the corner of Powerline Road and 331. I believe the brick fireplace that still stands was from his house, though I'd have to ask his grandson (who owned the property after him) to be certain.

Powerline Road was re-named Chat Holley Road posthumously. And y'all should have seen old Powerline Road before it was paved. Making it all the way from 393 to 331 was interesting, to say the least.

[florida girl]

Chat's granddaughter was my best friend when I was a kid, great times we had! Yes, that's the old fireplace from the old house. I remember it, no indoor plumbing! They had a 2 seater over in the side yard! Chat was a real character, he used to sit in a lawn chair with cut offs, and swat flies. His wife was a jewel of a lady, Madie. She used to drive the school bus, and worked as a cook at various restaurants. Particularly Chapmans.

[SWGB]

So let me get this straight. You're going to four lane a road that connects 2 two lane roads? Am I the only one trying to figure out how this releives traffic? Secondly, once you've built this 4 lane road, won't it cause a traffic signal to be placed at 331 and Chat Holley, thus backing up traffic on the bridge?

[swantree]

So let me get this straight. You're going to four lane a road that connects 2 two lane roads? Am I the only one trying to figure out how this releives traffic? Secondly, once you've built this 4 lane road, won't it cause a traffic signal to be placed at 331 and Chat Holley, thus backing up traffic on the bridge?

good point.....at some time the traffic count would get high enough that there would have to be a light put in that exact spot.......or we have a fly over bridge with a merge lane!

[Smiling JOe]

There were several options proposed by the engineers. I recall all of them extending Chat Holley all the way to Mack Bayou Rd. I think one included making Chat Holley a two lane + a middle turning lane, and making Hwy 98 a six lane to carry the extra capacity. Keep in mind, this was being looked at on something like a twenty year into the future plan, and 331 expansion is already underway, and the expansion of the Clyde Wells bridge over the Bay, will likely be completed by then. Given the long-range look, the ideas proposed aren't so crazy, as this area will surely grow during the next twenty - thirty years. Without planning ahead, we will end up like the mess called Destin, which has only one slow way through town for the most part. I applaud them for looking ahead, and also for being smart enough to set some priorities and putting this one on the back burner.

[florida girl]

They'll have to buy an easement, there isn't enough on the East end for an official repaving. Col Fleet got tired of all the fussing about it and said "just pave what's there!"

[seagrovegirl]

Chat Holley: long-time local pioneer. I can still picture his old white farm-type house, on the corner of Powerline Road and 331. I believe the brick fireplace that still stands was from his house, though I'd have to ask his grandson (who owned the property after him) to be certain.

Powerline Road was re-named Chat Holley Road posthumously. And y'all should have seen old Powerline Road before it was paved. Making it all the way from 393 to 331 was interesting, to say the least.

Whew...I remember Powerline Road....Needed 4 WD. A real mud pit!!! I bent the frame of my mother's Ford Bronco on that road.

[Smiling JOe]

393, all the way from 30A to the Bay, including the dirt road part, is on the books to be approved as Scenic Corridor. Getting the designation means getting funds and grants to build sidewalks and multi-use paths.

Since the time has past to edit this above post, I wanted to add a little bit to it and possibly correct my statement based on new info which I received. Hwy 393 from Ed Walline Park all the way to the Bay is included in "The Route 30-A Scenic Corridor," however, it is not included in the "Florida Scenic Highway," so it will probably not include State funding or grants for sidewalks and or bike paths. As I understand it, CR 393 wasn't included in the original list of roads sent to the State for "Florida Scenic Hwy" designation.

[seagrovegirl]

Since the time has past to edit this above post, I wanted to add a little bit to it and possibly correct my statement based on new info which I received. Hwy 393 from Ed Walline Park all the way to the Bay is included in "The Route 30-A Scenic Corridor," however, it is not included in the "Florida Scenic Highway," so it will probably not include State funding or grants for sidewalks and or bike paths. As I understand it, CR 393 wasn't included in the original list of roads sent to the State for "Florida Scenic Hwy" designation.

Has 395 S to Tucker Bayou been included???? It's time for improvement there cuz of Eden State Gardens and the school. Not to mention the historical element.

[Smiling JOe]

395 is included in the 30A Scenic Corridor, but I don't know if it is included in the Florida Scenic Hwy.

[scooterbug44]

What makes it "scenic"?

The ugliest things on 30-A are all the power lines/poles and they're in the middle of a project to make them taller and more prominent!

[Smiling JOe]

"Scenic" places restrictions of some of the surrounding properties, to help keep/make it scenic, before it can grow unrestricted.

[JB]

Back to the topic at hand...I wouldn't understand the logic behind four-laning Chat Holley, but it sure would be nice if they would widen and re-surface the road. Pretty narrow and bumpy in spots.

[florida girl]

Whew...I remember Powerline Road....Needed 4 WD. A real mud pit!!! I bent the frame of my mother's Ford Bronco on that road.

I remember well! Used to see bumper stickers that said, "I lost my parts on Chat Holley Rd!" I learned to drive on that road, that's probably the problem!

[ShallowsNole]

fg, that photo is it exactly. One picture is worth a thousand words!

[swantree]

ok......so more rumors....what about the statements made that Chat Holley would contain more business up and down it's length....as South Santa Rosa....or north of 98 builds and becomes more of the "town center"....IMO....looking alot like Destin, where the back roads are combinations of houses and business types. wouldn't that make for a four lane road more plausible in the planners minds? if the Publix goes in north of 98 what would back up to that north side and between CH.

[Smiling JOe]

If they four lane Chat Holley, densities along Chat Holley will increase and some residential property will likely become commercial property. You can probably cut to the chase and go to Comm. Meadows office and ask for maps and info, but as stated, they aren't doing anything with the data/study at this time. The property where the new Publix is going in on 98, backs up to more land, and there is a great deal of land between that property and Chat Holley.

[kurt]

The study was very forward thinking and the purpose seemed to be to avoid the kind of problems communities like Destin and Panama City are facing. I found it unusual and admirable that planning was already happening. When faced with the reality of "progress", the plan was jarring to those that attended the meeting and the reaction was not surprising. It's easy to see why communities end up with gridlock rather than face reality.

[kurt]

A couple of pics just north of Chat Holley after Hurricane Ivan. When you hear land described as "high and dry" anywhere in SoWal, think to yourself, "really"?

http://sowal.com/photos-091404.html

[Smiling JOe]

Hey Kurt, that first pic is of the new 30A Scenic Corridor. I'm still wondering why the dirt road north of Nursery St is being included in the 30A Scenic Corridor. lol. (funny, but true)