Auction Tomorrow - Reserves Lowered

P.A.G. · 11-16-2007, 07:21 AM

17 properties being auctioned tomorrow at The Hilton Sandestin. Registration starts at 1pm, Auction starts at 3pm. There will be some great opportunities. Please visit our website for property descriptions.

http://thepremierauctiongroup.com/auction_list.php

In order to bid, please bring $10,000 in certified funds made out to yourself.

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 07:26 AM

how many of your auctions will be sold absolute?

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 07:33 AM

I'm curious about one of your auctions, 62 Thicket Circle in WaterColor. I watched this house since they broke ground on it and am very familiar with the history of it in the MLS. The listing agent had it advertised at a price around $895,000 for a while. About two days prior to seeing it advertised in your auction, I noticed a price change in the MLS, changing the price to something like, $1.395 million. Was this done so as a marketing tool for the auction and do you encourage sellers to raise their listing price prior to it coming to the auction, in hopes of using the high listing price as a feature when describing the property at auction, or, is the seller doing this on his/her own?

BeachKing · 11-16-2007, 07:57 AM

On, or about 11/5/2007 62 Thicket Circle raised their price from $985,000 to $1,395,000; a 41.62% INCREASE. Dont ya just love it.

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeachKing

On, or about 11/5/2007 62 Thicket Circle raised their price from $985,000 to $1,395,000; a 41.62% INCREASE. Dont ya just love it.

I could have sworn that the add for sale in the Sun was at $895K -- maybe bad memory or a typo. I understand that the builder turned down a very nice offer of well over a million, when he was only about 3-4 months into the build. Cannot blame him because values were increasing a couple hundred grand in a couple of months back then.

I do notice the adjacent house to the north, 72 Thicket Circle, is currently priced at $849,000.

I will add that today's buyers are some of the most researched buyers I've ever seen and they look at all things like this before considering purchasing. I think sellers must think they buyers are not doing simple basic research before ever stepping foot in or on a property.

P.A.G. · 11-16-2007, 08:14 AM

That property was dropped in the MLS to $985,000 well after we had advertised the minimum bid at $900,000. It was done by mistake. It was only listed that way for 5 days.

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.A.G.

That property was dropped in the MLS to $985,000 well after we had advertised the minimum bid at $900,000. It was done by mistake. It was only listed that way for 5 days.

Looking at the listing in the MLS under auctions, I see that the minimum bid was left blank. Since there is a minimum bid which you state above, why don't you guys complete the mls sheet as required by the mls rules?

BeachKing · 11-16-2007, 08:27 AM

Comps in the area reflect the 800K range, not 1.3. Thats Sq Ft , Bed-Bath, etc, locaton etc, I can go on and on. In todays market, @ 1.3 it will sit. Maybe Next week it will fly,, but for this day, no way.

PS, Not ragging on you, really, just stating facts as of this minute. Hope you do get it all.

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 08:31 AM

I agree. If the minimum bid is $900,000, it will not sell tomorrow. As I stated, the adjacent house, 72 Thicket Cir, is priced at $849K and offers similar sq footage, similar location, similar materials and craftsmanship. I've been in both.

P.A.G. · 11-16-2007, 08:53 AM

What's it worth to you SJ?

Ohio Girl · 11-16-2007, 09:09 AM

Same thing going on with the Roebuck auctions. 2 of the homes at Magnolia had asking price increases in September 2007. One home jumped from 505K to 625K and the other home's asking price jumped from 590 to 675K. Didn't make sense at the time.

georgeinnwfl · 11-16-2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.A.G.

What's it worth to you SJ?

Mr. Auction man, SJ is not on trial regarding this issue. You, your firm, your seller, and other parties are. I am quite alarmed by this thread, and your responses. For the sake of your reputation, your auction company, and perhaps SoWal auctions in general, please expound upon the events surrounding this snake charmer and switch and bait sales pricing approach. Further, the market being stated as 800k-900s raises long standing issues why anyone would show up to this or any of your auctions.

I look forward to your rather detailed and forthright explanation.

Sincerely.

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.A.G.

What's it worth to you SJ?

Too rich for my blood, but to answer your question with the obvious, it is worth what a buyer is willing to pay. It is a very nice house, though I think the upstairs is a little tight feeling with the ceiling height, after walking through the tall ceilings downstairs. It appears very well constructed, and I notice many upgrades. I think you could find a buyer in today's market in that 750K-800K range, which might sound low compared to the highs of the market, but I think that is the real price to expect today. Ask me again in two years, and I may have a different answer for that day.

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 09:44 AM

For the record, I don't think PAG was putting me on trial with his question. Sounds to me as though he/she is curious to hear what I think the realistic price for which the property would sell.

Some properties I've seen, have exciting prices, but many other sellers need to get realistic, and until they do, their properties won't sell, even by going to auction. The only reason a seller would refuse to sell Absolute at an auction is that they fear knowing the real selling price. Just my opinion.

Franny · 11-16-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio Girl

Same thing going on with the Roebuck auctions. 2 of the homes at Magnolia had asking price increases in September 2007. One home jumped from 505K to 625K and the other home's asking price jumped from 590 to 675K. Didn't make sense at the time.

All of the properties for the Roebuck Auction are no longer on the market. I have been researching these properties for some time, I am NOT involved with the auction company. At one point our market made a positive jump in the fall, Sept/Oct and perhaps this is why the price was increased at that time. The owners were probably hoping to sell a few properties prior to auction time. My crystal ball is not working today otherwise I would have a better answer.

Ohio Girl · 11-16-2007, 10:02 AM

All of the prominent attorney's properties had an asking price increase in September. I don't buy the price spike theory in September.

atlgull · 11-16-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeinnwfl

Mr. Auction man, SJ is not on trial regarding this issue. You, your firm, your seller, and other parties are. I am quite alarmed by this thread, and your responses. For the sake of your reputation, your auction company, and perhaps SoWal auctions in general, please expound upon the events surrounding this snake charmer and switch and bait sales pricing approach. Further, the market being stated as 800k-900s raises long standing issues why anyone would show up to this or any of your auctions.

I look forward to your rather detailed and forthright explanation.

Sincerely.

Wow...sounds like mr. auction man upset you. Just for the record. I didn't take the post that way at all. I just thought that PAG was asking what SJ thought was a good price if he thought it was too high. PAG, what did you mean? Seems like you had us all taking that different ways.

I have been following RE in the area for awhile and I looked at the prices on the website. I can't claim to know much about the auction stuff becuase I bought way before auctions, but I thought some were definately better than others. I would say that the Gulf Front Townhome really blew me away. $650,000? Now that is a great buy if you ask me. Even in this market. I also heard that one was sold pre-auction. Anybody know anything about that?

P.A.G. · 11-16-2007, 10:06 AM

Atl,

The gulf front townhome has a reserve of $625K, not $650K. Thanks for the postive words, it's hard to get around here sometimes. For the record, I'm not putting anybody on trial.

2 properties have been sold before the auction. This will be my last response for the day.

Hope to see all of you there.

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio Girl

All of the prominent attorney's properties had an asking price increase in September. I don't buy the price spike theory in September.

I don't think all of his properties were listed prior to this auction.

Ohio Girl · 11-16-2007, 10:26 AM

I beg to differ. I watch this area like a hawk. :)

SoWal Sage · 11-16-2007, 10:37 AM

"That property was dropped in the MLS to $985,000 well after we had advertised the minimum bid at $900,000. It was done by mistake. It was only listed that way for 5 days."

Wow, this is convenient ... done by mistake ... do you really think people don't look at this information?

"Looking at the listing in the MLS under auctions, I see that the minimum bid was left blank. Since there is a minimum bid which you state above, why don't you guys complete the mls sheet as required by the mls rules?"

This is very frustrating too. PAG did not answer this very good question. If I ever make a "mistake" or leave something out in the MLS, I get a warning and have to correct it immediately. Guess not everyone has to play by the rules.

"Mr. Auction man, SJ is not on trial regarding this issue. You, your firm, your seller, and other parties are. I am quite alarmed by this thread, and your responses. For the sake of your reputation, your auction company, and perhaps SoWal auctions in general, please expound upon the events surrounding this snake charmer and switch and bait sales pricing approach. Further, the market being stated as 800k-900s raises long standing issues why anyone would show up to this or any of your auctions. I look forward to your rather detailed and forthright explanation."

As expected, no response to this post from PAG. It is mindboggling to me that PAG continues to post and when the questions start coming, they only answer the ones that sound positive. If you are going to continue to post this auction information, then you better be prepared to answer some tough questions and explain to people why purchasing at your auction would be a better opportunity than buying from the agent that has the property listed. I wonder how the seller's of these properties would feel about all of this? Because in my opinion, I agree with georgeinnwfl that it makes all real estate auction companies look bad.

"Atl,The gulf front townhome has a reserve of $625K, not $650K. Thanks for the postive words, it's hard to get around here sometimes. For the record, I'm not putting anybody on trial. 2 properties have been sold before the auction.

This will be my last response for the day. Hope to see all of you there."

Last response for the day, huh? Like I said, dodged all the questions, and now is going to run away ... really makes you wonder!

jdarg · 11-16-2007, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio Girl

All of the prominent attorney's properties had an asking price increase in September. I don't buy the price spike theory in September.

I don't either.

Lately it seems that every auction has a funny smell to it- be it the auction happened, but absolute properties were pulled so they really weren't ab solute, or nobody seems to know if anything actually sold and closed, or selling prices are mysteriously raised before auctions- what happened to the days where an item goes to auction, it is either absolute or it is not, the high bidder wins, and the property truly changes hands?

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 10:47 AM

SoWal Sage, you can always report their 11 listings in the MLS to ECAR if you think they are not abiding by the rules and ECAR will send them notice to correct their listings. Problem is that the auction is tomorrow and that type of violation is only a Class II violation which means they will have two days to correct the listing without penalty. By the time that passes, the auction will be completed, so it is really a waste of time reporting the incident.

Good luck with the auction tomorrow, PAG. I would genuinely be delighted to see all of the properties sell. I just want to make sure that the buying public is protected and informed, and that Realtors are getting accurate information when they pull a listing in the MLS.

atlgull · 11-16-2007, 10:56 AM

SoWal Sage and others? Do you know if PAG had the MLS listing at the time of the dropped price? My mls research actually shows all price changes were done by the listing agent prior to PAG having it under them in the MLS.

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 10:56 AM

If the auction company is affiliated with ECAR (emerald coast assoc of realtors), and they are entering their data properly, it will take some work to see if they entered the sold info. The reason is that once an auctioned property closes (sold), the auction company is required to change the category of the property from auction to whatever it is, attached single family, residential land, detached single family, etc., so that the sales data for all like properties is found under one search, even if the sale was an auction. So for example, the two auctions for the duplex at 156 Chivas Ln are listed in with auctions as sold, but they should have been moved into the category of attached single family, and entered as sold, so that when a Realtor or an appraiser looks for comps of attached single family homes, they will see the properties sold at auction in addition to any sold otherwise via a Realtor.

Smiling JOe · 11-16-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlgull

SoWal Sage and others? Do you know if PAG had the MLS listing at the time of the dropped price? My mls research actually shows all price changes were done by the listing agent prior to PAG having it under them in the MLS.

Only the listing broker/agent can enter the price changes in the mls and in the case of 62 Thicket Cir, the price was changed when another company and agent had the listing.

SHELLY · 11-16-2007, 12:12 PM

Interesting thread--shows that folks are finally starting to ask the right questions about real estate. But I still think the sellers are in a state of denial.

The "reserves lowered" is an indication that the response has been less than anticipated and a last-ditch effort to lure folks away from the "other" auction (which has absolutes).

.

flyguy · 11-16-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.A.G.

Atl,

The gulf front townhome has a reserve of $625K, not $650K. Thanks for the postive words, it's hard to get around here sometimes. For the record, I'm not putting anybody on trial.

2 properties have been sold before the auction. This will be my last response for the day.

Hope to see all of you there.

"This will be my last response for the day". Given the rather accusatory questions posed to you, this response does not leave your auction company in a very good light.

JMHO,
Flyguy

Joe Mammy · 11-16-2007, 05:29 PM

I am involved in this auction but I can only speak as a referring sales associate. I referred 4 properties- the 3 Ariel Dunes II units and the single family home in the Moreno Acres subdivision of Destin.

Let's begin with the home. I previously had it listed and it expired 12/06 - MLS #425407 @ $499K. We published a reserve of $349K for the auction. It is now under contract from a pre-auction offer and will close on 12/7. I'll be happy to share the closing price after close when it becomes public knowledge.

So YiPPee, we have a sale!

Now the other 3 AD II units are a 2br and a 3br direct from the developer and a 4br penthouse from a private owner that I had listed at $849K - MLS#425407. The published reserves are well below the comps:
2br $295K
3br $395K
penthouse $695K (the seller paid $899K in May '07)

I can assure you there is no funny biz with prices raised in the MLS prior to auction on any of these condos or the home. If any of these sell at minimum bid they will easily be the leaders in the clubhouse for the best deals in the building.

None of these properties published reserve has been lowered, they are already WoW prices- we have had alot of showings in the last two weeks.

If you come to the auction, stop by and say Hi, I'll be the guy wishing there was a tv around so that I could be watching the games.

frankfromfla · 11-16-2007, 06:05 PM

I was going to attend the auction but have decided not to. I am starting to think the only real auctions that will be worthwhile to attend will be "absolute auctions" unless there is a free buffet. Perhaps more shoes are getting ready to drop....

atlgull · 11-16-2007, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankfromfla

I was going to attend the auction but have decided not to. I am starting to think the only real auctions that will be worthwhile to attend will be "absolute auctions" unless there is a free buffet. Perhaps more shoes are getting ready to drop....

I don't think I agree. After reading all of these auction posts, properties like Joe's look as interesting as the absolutes. In the case of the absolute, you know the property is going to sell. In the case of the minimums, you know before you show up what you can get the property for. If the thread title is true and the posted reserves or minimums are lower, you know there is a possibility to get even lower than published. Just a thought.

fisher · 11-16-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Mammy

I am involved in this auction but I can only speak as a referring sales associate. I referred 4 properties- the 3 Ariel Dunes II units and the single family home in the Moreno Acres subdivision of Destin.

Now the other 3 AD II units are a 2br and a 3br direct from the developer and a 4br penthouse from a private owner that I had listed at $849K - MLS#425407. The published reserves are well below the comps:
2br $295K
3br $395K
penthouse $695K (the seller paid $899K in May '07)

.

What comps are you referring to? Have there been any resales in ADII or are the only sales so far precon closings?

Joe Mammy · 11-17-2007, 08:00 AM

Fisher-
If we look at just AD II there are only 2 flips in the MLS, bear in mind the building is brand new and the closings were in March and May. Here is a report of just the lowest priced 2brs on or above the fifth floor (the auction unit is on the 11th and has a much better view):
http://ecarmls.com/EmeraldReports/li...?ID=4911860926

The 3br is a ground floor on the west end of the building. Here is a report of all the 3br sales fifth floor or lower:
http://ecarmls.com/EmeraldReports/li...?ID=4911860928

The penthouse #2405 is a 4br and closed in June for $899700. #2402 also closed in June for $899,700. Offered at $695K plus bp of 10% if won with only one bid will be a heck of a deal. The views from the top are most impressive of all of Destin.

The amenities in AD II include gym with steam and sauna, 3 large pools, 200 yards to the beach, walk on golf, tennis and bicycle trails. The only other condo that offers golf and beach are Sandestin and they are priced twice as much as similar units. The association fees are extremely competitive and lower than any other Destin condos I've priced with similar square footage. The units are beautiful with granite counters, tile and very large balconies and floor plans.

If you want a Destin condo, these are the best deals out there.

Smiling JOe · 11-17-2007, 06:15 PM

This thread is very quiet. Must be a good auction, eh? Any reports?

Joe Mammy · 11-17-2007, 08:38 PM

No bids on my Ariel Dunes II. About 20 registered bidders. Looks like the locks were on their wallets. Good snacks though- eggrolls, chicken fingers and mini-kbobs.

SHELLY · 11-17-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Mammy

No bids on my Ariel Dunes II. About 20 registered bidders. Looks like the locks were on their wallets. Good snacks though- eggrolls, chicken fingers and mini-kbobs.

Whoa

So what does this mean for Ariel Dunes II?

Did anything sell? Or where they just there for the snacks?

.

Joe Mammy · 11-17-2007, 09:36 PM

For AD II? I think there were buyers there in hover mode, simply observing. My personal feelings are the 10% buyer's premium caused the double clutch. My seller's are not going to give them away. These remaining post close units are great value and will sell soon enough.

Smiling JOe · 11-17-2007, 09:46 PM

JoeMammy, did anything sell?

Joe Mammy · 11-17-2007, 09:53 PM

I know there were 2 pre-sales ( I had 1). My units were the first 3 on the block and I didn't stick around. I'll let PAG answer.

Busta Hustle · 11-18-2007, 07:03 AM

Note to self..."if you don't want to sell that pig, don't waste the lipstick."

atlgull · 11-19-2007, 08:32 AM

Joe,
I noticed on your website that the ADII unit prices were lowered again. Is this the final price, or do you have to attach a premium to the end of the listed price?

Smiling JOe · 11-19-2007, 08:36 AM

Where is P.A.G. with the report on the "make us an offer auction" results?

Joe Mammy · 11-19-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlgull

Joe,
I noticed on your website that the ADII unit prices were lowered again. Is this the final price, or do you have to attach a premium to the end of the listed price?

The auctioneer has a 90 day listing agreement from auction date. These are the new reduced prices that include all premiums (commissions) cooperating brokers get an equal share and any offers are encouraged:

#1103 2br $315K
#110 3br $425K
#2405 4 br penthouse $735K

I have showings there today from 10:00am on. Call me if you would like a tour: 850.642.1081

Pirate · 11-19-2007, 11:44 AM

I heard that everything on the block was bid on. I also heard most of the inventory was bid way below what was owed. Anyone with more info care to elaborate? How did the gulf front do?

Ohio Girl · 11-19-2007, 01:30 PM

Just received this email. I'm confused ... did these not sell at auction?

POST AUCTION STEALS!!
Ariel Dunes: 2bed/ba, 1175+ sqft, with stunning gulf views, $315K
Ariel Dunes: 3 bed/3ba, 1763+ sqft, offering amazing gulf views, $425K
Ariel Dunes Penthouse: stunning views of the coastline, 4 bed/3.5ba, 2216+ sqft, $735K
89 Palmeira Way: 4 bed/4.5ba, with gulf views 2167+ sqft, $720K
62 Thicket: located in Watercolor, 3 bed/3ba, 2028+ sqft, $785K
Sandollar Gulf Front Townhome #19: 3 bed/3.5ba, 1650+ sqft, $649K
Sandollar Gulf Front Townhome #3: 3 bed/3.5ba, 1680+ sqft, w/ efficiency, $599K
Carillon Beach Front Lot: 52x180, Sold with DEP permits & approved house plans, $1.335M

SHELLY · 11-19-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio Girl

Just received this email. I'm confused ... did these not sell at auction?

POST AUCTION STEALS!!
Ariel Dunes: 2bed/ba, 1175+ sqft, with stunning gulf views, $315K
Ariel Dunes: 3 bed/3ba, 1763+ sqft, offering amazing gulf views, $425K
Ariel Dunes Penthouse: stunning views of the coastline, 4 bed/3.5ba, 2216+ sqft, $735K
89 Palmeira Way: 4 bed/4.5ba, with gulf views 2167+ sqft, $720K
62 Thicket: located in Watercolor, 3 bed/3ba, 2028+ sqft, $785K
Sandollar Gulf Front Townhome #19: 3 bed/3.5ba, 1650+ sqft, $649K
Sandollar Gulf Front Townhome #3: 3 bed/3.5ba, 1680+ sqft, w/ efficiency, $599K
Carillon Beach Front Lot: 52x180, Sold with DEP permits & approved house plans, $1.335M

Apparently that's the stuff hanging on the Clearance Rack.

The PAG website is adverstising some as "Today's Total Contract Price"...meaning the buyer doesn't have to pay the 10%??

Come on P.A.G., I know you're out there--fess up.

.
.

Smiling JOe · 11-19-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smiling JOe

Too rich for my blood, but to answer your question with the obvious, it is worth what a buyer is willing to pay. It is a very nice house, though I think the upstairs is a little tight feeling with the ceiling height, after walking through the tall ceilings downstairs. It appears very well constructed, and I notice many upgrades. I think you could find a buyer in today's market in that 750K-800K range, which might sound low compared to the highs of the market, but I think that is the real price to expect today. Ask me again in two years, and I may have a different answer for that day.

Interesting that the other house in WaterColor, auctioned on Saturday, brought $765,000. Now PAG is offering 62 Thicket Cir at $785,000.

atlgull · 11-19-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smiling JOe

Interesting that the other house in WaterColor, auctioned on Saturday, brought $765,000. Now PAG is offering 62 Thicket Cir at $785,000.

I called PAG today to find out about these "total contract price" properties on their website. From what I understand, these prices include sell price AND commission.

So...now after reading your post Joe, I think that the Watercolor bought on Saturday would be $765,000 plus a 10% buyers premium which would put it at $841,500. The PAG watercolor listing would be $785,000 total price.

IMO $785 for that house doesn't sound bad. Wish I had the cash!

Smiling JOe · 11-19-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlgull

I called PAG today to find out about these "total contract price" properties on their website. From what I understand, these prices include sell price AND commission.

So...now after reading your post Joe, I think that the Watercolor bought on Saturday would be $765,000 plus a 10% buyers premium which would put it at $841,500. The PAG watercolor listing would be $785,000 total price.

IMO $785 for that house doesn't sound bad. Wish I had the cash!

... and as I stated earlier, I think the 62 Thicket Cir would bring between $750K-800K in today's market. The other home in WaterColor, located on Western Lake Dr, is larger by about almost 25%, hence the higher price for offered for it.

SHELLY · 11-19-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlgull

I called PAG today to find out about these "total contract price" properties on their website. From what I understand, these prices include sell price AND commission.

So...now after reading your post Joe, I think that the Watercolor bought on Saturday would be $765,000 plus a 10% buyers premium which would put it at $841,500. The PAG watercolor listing would be $785,000 total price.

IMO $785 for that house doesn't sound bad. Wish I had the cash!

A 42% decrease in 2 years @ Watercolor

What will the neighbors think?

.