AAbsolute

Today a local Sowal idiot with some ax to grind went to one of my past customers doors. He tried to get me fired from her job. This kind of nonsense has been going on for 7 years now. Isn't that self refuting enough? 7 years of getting up and getting out in Sowal to work everyday, all the while, I have a coward creeping around behind me saying I'm going to leave someone high and dry?.? That does nothing but shake confidence and harm the listener. Nothing is farther from the truth. I have never, ever, ever left a customer high and dry.

If anyone has any questions about me, John Carroll, or my company, Chambers Street Builders, Inc., you can always reach me at my e-mail AAbsolute@aol.com or my cell 850-978-8233.

I don't know how to stop it, and maybe I never will. I do know that I hope to hear from someone, anonymous or not, if they know something about this.

Thanks, JC

singinchicken

Libel suits work pretty well, but you would have to prove that the other person's actions or words caused you lost work, revenue, or damage to your business...

__________________

Smiling JOe

I believe that the other person's words would have to be false. If they are factual truths only, there is no case.

__________________

singinchicken

True...

__________________

ClintClint

Let it go AA, your nemesis looks petty to your other customers.
Set your standards high and strive to match them. Let your standards of work and personal behavior reflect your integrity.
Personally, when I have to meet St. Peter at the Pearly Gates, I'm going incognito.

AAbsolute

Saying something to another that is untrue is called slander. Writing something untrue is called libel................................

Defamation, Libel and Slander -


[1] Elements and Case Citations

(1) Defendant made a false and defamatory statement;

(2) Defendant published (written or orally) to a third party;

(3) Defendant made the defamatory statement with the requisite intent (negligence or malice); and

(4) Plaintiff suffered damages.

Libel is a written defamatory statement. See Hay v. Independent Newspapers, Inc., 450 So. 2d 293, 294-295 (Fla. 2d DCA 1984). Slander is a spoken defamatory statement. See Axelrod v. Califano, 357 So. 2d 1048, 1050 (Fla. 1st DCA 1978). A defamation claim against a private person requires negligence. See Miami Herald Publ’g Co. v Ane, 423 So. 2d 376, 383 (Fla. 3d DCA 1982), citing Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., 418 U.S. 323, 347 (1974). A defamation claim against a public figure requires publication with actual malice and in reckless disregard of the plaintiff’s rights. See Seropian v. Forman, 652 So. 2d 490, 493 (Fla. 4th DCA 1995), citing New York Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254, 279-280 (1964).


Injurious Falsehood is a cause of action akin to defamation. See Salit v. Ruden, McCloskey, Smith, Schuster & Russell, P.A., 742 So. 2d 381, 386-387, n.3 (Fla. 4th DCA 1999); Restatement (Second) of Torts §§ 623A-652 (1977).

____________________________________

Florida State Courts
First District: Linafelt v. Beverly Enterprises-Florida, Inc., 745 So. 2d 386, 388 (Fla. 1st DCA 1999)
Second District: Bass v. Rivera, 826 So.2d 534, 534 (Fla. 2nd DCA 2002)
Third District: Valencia v. Citibank International, 728 So. 2d 330, 330 (Fla. 3d DCA 1999)
Fourth District: Rapp v. Jews for Jesus, Inc., 944 So. 2d 460, 464-65 (Fla. 4th DCA 2006)
Fifth District: Scholz v. RDV Sports, Inc., 710 So. 2d 618, 625 (Fla. 5th DCA 1998), rev. denied, 718 So. 2d 618 (Fla. 1998)

Florida Federal Courts
Eleventh Circuit: Rubin v. U.S. News & World Report, Inc., 271 F. 3rd 1305, 1306 (11th Cir. 2001)
Southern District: Corporate Financial, Inc. v. Principal Life Ins. Co., 461 F. Supp. 2d 1274, 1292 (S.D. Fla. 2006)
Middle District: Furmanite America, Inc. v. T.D. Williamson, Inc., 506 F. Supp. 2d 1134, 1140 (M.D. Fla. 2007)

References
Restatement (Second) of Torts §§ 558, 580(B) (1965)

AAbsolute

I'm a big boy. If anybody wants to say or write something true about me or my company I will never argue the point. When I'm wrong I'll admit it. A slug or group of slugs saying or writing something in a false light is very different and I'll assert myself for the good of my family and the man in the mirror. Thanks

AAbsolute

Any body know what happened to posts #2 and #3 that were up on the Thread last night?

grace

You may have offended someone with the power to delete. There was a dog thread a while back that had several posts deleted for fear of outing an irresponsible dog owner that was friends with a moderator.

AAbsolute

I don't post to offend people. I don't know yet what Tootsie and I said that would offend anyone, anywhere. I wrote the only Moderator I know to get clear so I don't do it again. Thanks

Smiling JOe

When I posted last night, singingchix had post #2 and mine was post #3.

__________________

waltonco lover

Do you own a "wood shed" John, I would suggest that you take the person behind there and teach them about respect.

Jk, I really do hope that you can get this resolved with the "idiot".

__________________

singinchicken

Yeah...they're all there. No names were mentiioned so there's no need to yank anything from the thread...

__________________

ASH

I am totally an outsider to what this whole thread and several similar to them over the past year or so, but like everyone else, I see them.

I do take issue with anyone who has problems with someone else and stoops to anything less than public scrutiny of their treatment of others to attempt to resolve an issue.

I know neither side of what started this battle so long ago, but it needs to come out into the light and be done with. Someone deserves 20 lashes with a wet noodle. Figure it out and get it finished and let's all move on to a more positive future like we all need.

I do not know you John, but I do hope to do business with you some day. I have not seen evidence of you covering any wrong doings to date and would tend to believe that you are honest and upfront with business.

Perhaps I am ignorant and someone can PM me with the other side of this story that can't seem to make it into the public eye for scrutiny.

I know...I know, I am new to the area and I do not know all the goings-on for the past several years, but I can't help but feel that someone has it in for John and his company and I don't understand why.

__________________
Anthony

Smiling JOe

I don't know John C, either, but I will note that coming on SoWal.com to bring up issues that should be addressed in private, is bringing him more into the spotlight, when it sounds like he would rather this thing from the past, fade away. ClintClint said it best, " Set your standards high and strive to match them. Let your standards of work and personal behavior reflect your integrity."

__________________

ASH

All very good points SJ. Thank you.

__________________
Anthony

AAbsolute

I mind my business. I'm an open book. I don't mind criticism, and as many folks will tell you, if I'm wrong I'll admit and try to make it right.

I've been told by someone I respect that it's just like this around Sowal with the Undercurrents, etc. and that maybe I should consider moving. In my business I can go anywhere in the nation and not miss a beat. I do however have three children from my previous marriage and I won't go anywhere unless they do. I can't leave them and I won't.

I worked today all day doing the best I could, I'm working tomorrow too. If there will be criticism of me can I please be kept in the loop. This particular idiot said blatant untruths with one goal, get me fired. I am begging for three feet of space, that's all.

AAbsolute

Try and get to know me SJ. Please, I'll buy the coffee or whatever your pleasure happens to be.

traderx

Do you know who the person is?

__________________
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time."

--Winston Churchill

Smiling JOe

I'm still confused by your first post, " a local Sowal idiot with some ax to grind went to one of my past customers doors. He tried to get me fired from her job."

If they went to a "past" customer, how could you be fired from that job?

__________________

John R

beat me to it. If they're already your client, they know exactly how you work and you should have no worries.

__________________
click >> Filter your water instead of using bottled water << click

AAbsolute

Good question. Relevant one too. I built a home for a man and woman last year. This year they hired us for some add ons. This idiot goes to her door while I'm at lunch and try's to malign me and get her to hold back on my payments. Nice huh? He says he's been talking to other past customers of mine too.

I've heard this a number of times and nobody ever wants to be the one to stand by me and say who's saying what. I know why, there's nothing pleasant about it.

So, has your question been cleared up now? Do you understand what happened? Do you think that it's o.k. and that I should ignore it? Do I have any right to get informed and face this idiot?

AAbsolute

Then it happened pretty quick and I'll write it off as some mistake by the powers to be. It was already deleted by the time y'all posted.

Smiling JOe

I never said you should ignore it. What I said is that you are bringing this matter that someone has a problem with your work, to the attention of all who read this message board. If you had addressed this issue in private with the appropriate people, only a very limited number of people would even realize that other people had problems with you/your company.

__________________

JUL

amen!

jim45

My daddy taught me where there's smoke there's fire.

Methinks thou dost protesteth too mucheth.

RiverOtter

So, It was somebody from the boards?

__________________

AAbsolute

If anyone on Sowal has some information to help me stop this I hope they will consider sending me a tip. It's a crime in Florida and I'm trying to get it to stop, that's all. My number's 978-8233, my e-mail's AAbsolute@aol.com, My fax is 850-231-5618. Anonymous is fine, someone to stand next to me and support what's right is better.

AAbsolute

Thanks for asking. Yes, they said something that makes me believe they are one of my Sowal neighbors. I just want it to stop or say it in front of me.

RiverOtter

Of course if there is any kind of pattern you could hide in the bushes and well.... throw water balloons filled with yellow paint at them

__________________

Smiling JOe

wwjd?

__________________

AAbsolute

Thanks, I'll try and read up on what He said about the effort fathers should take in supporting their families.

cheesehead

Call Guido!!!

kathydwells

If you know who it is that is saying these untruths, have you approached them face to face? If I have a problem with someone that I KNOW is saying untruths about me, I will go to them face to face and have a sit down and try to clear it up that way. Good luck to you.

__________________
~He can who thinks he can, and he can't who thinks he can't. This is and inexorable, indisputable law.~ Pablo Picasso.

AAbsolute

All I need is one person to stand with me and say, this person said'" X " and I'll be there the same day to make sure that it is taken care of.

Minnie

Sorry AA but this all sounds very junior highish. If the people who you are working for are not willing to share with you, who is doing this, are they truly reliable to tell you anything.

I go with what SJ said, let your work be your spokesperson and shrug this dirt off. It is not worth the energy. Almost always those that are willing to spread an untruth about someone will always go behind your back. That type of person has to just be ignored. If they were honorable and had a legitimate gripe about you, they would say it to you.

__________________
"The value of a man resides in what he gives and not in what he is capable of receiving." Albert Einstein

John R

It's about (way past) time for this to go to PM. If you know the person's identity, address them directly. This airing of dirty laundry may be doing more harm than good to your business.

This thread should be locked up and let die.

__________________
click >> Filter your water instead of using bottled water << click

scooterbug44

Ditto - someone so unhappy with you/your work that they are showing up at your client's homes trying to get you fired is not going to change their behavior because of a Sowal thread/post.

All this thread accomplished was making many more people aware of the incident and spreading more negative news about you and your company. You took an incident involving a few people and turned it into an immortal internet thread that has already been viewed more than 550 times.

__________________
"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

AAbsolute

Thanks for the advice.

AAbsolute

Let's experiment:

Private Message me the name a custom home builder, any builder, give me a year and I'll show you how the scam works. Somebody will contact their suppliers first and drop a hint or two. Even though they may have paid their bills on time for $6,000,000 in a row, I know just what to say to break confidence. Next will be their finance companies with a little floated story. They can be solid and paying on time, but there's things that can be said to set the stage. Next, we contact their customers and give them some undercurrent warnings. Gentle enough to be believable, and told in the style,"I'm not saying it's definately going to happen, just protect yourself and hold as much as you can." Now, a few anonymous calls to some people I know at the Building Dept. with just the right tact. Then, we co-ordinate a couple of their customers who are already upside down because they overpaid for their land and I'll show you how to leverage their lender just right.

For this to work best you'll need to be sure to send me the P.M. It won't cost me a dime to execute this plan. Go ahead, name any custom builder here.

Smiling JOe

648 page views for this thread, and rising. I'm beginning to wonder who is really the one with the ax to grind.

__________________

Miss Kitty

ho-boy

__________________
The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

John R

AAbsolute, instead of you fishing for a name from someone here, why don't you tell us a name of a person you absolutely pissed off who would want to see you fail. Then, if anyone here knows this person, they could bring it up in casual conversation;
"Hi upset person, how's your family these days?"
"Really, that's nice. Little Jimmy doing well in school?"
"That's great, primary education really is the cornerstone. Hey, tell me, why are you trying to run down Chambers street builders?"

Possibly you misread the intent of those(me) suggesting you take this to PM. Confront the person directly, in private and get it done with. At this point, if I was looking for a builder, Chambers street would not be at the top of the list due to this thread and your other one about your stuff in the ground. Too much drama. I'd be worried you'd be dragging every little thing around forever. Obviously, not sure that would happen, but my confidence in your discretion is not high.

You cannot be the only builder that has problems with people on the job, but you are the second one I remember that's brought his business to this board in this fashion. The other was a disgruntled painter, if memory serves. I won't be the one to post the dead horse gif, but I bet it's close to someone's enter button.

ymmv

__________________
click >> Filter your water instead of using bottled water << click

Andy A.

Let's look at this from a different perspective. AA has been absolutely open about who he is and what he does. I, for one, like that. He has a gripe that might or might not be valid but look at all the free advertisement for his company he is getting. You know the old saying, "No publicity is bad publicity".
I may be naive but I think AA is awfully smart and a very wise business man. Maybe that is why I never was in business. Suffice it to say from what I've read (and I've read the whole thread) if I were building a custom home, I'd sure contact AA for a proposal.

__________________
Congress only does two things well...Nothing at all and overreacting.

NoHall

I think that usually only works for the entertainment industry. If I were building a custom home, I would NOT go with that adage or with "the squeaky wheel gets the grease." I would find someone with a custom home who was happy with the builder. But that's just me...

__________________

jim45

I agree about the free negative advert publicity thing. Builders are desperate these days and this thread reeks of desperation. Posting about unhappy customers here and playing the victim is IMO obviously a ploy. A desperate attempt for attention and business. And as Andy just stated, some will take the bait and give the "poor victim builder" a chance. These are the people that are likely to fall for a scam, or at the very least, be led around by the nose (no offense to Andy).

Even if I am totally off base it still comes across as bottom-feeding, axe-grinding behavior by the original poster and this thread should probably be nixed IMHO.

jim45

I will also add that this appears to me to be devious and uinderhanded. Not saying you would actually do it but if this is the way your mind works ...

In addition I would steer clear of a home builder who appears to spend more time building post count than building homes.

Andy A.

In fairness, how is he going to build homes when there are no buyers in today's market. I suppose he coulld go sit on the beach but that gets old quicker than posting on SoWal.

__________________
Congress only does two things well...Nothing at all and overreacting.

traderx

This is an amazing thread in which the ugliness of human behavior has flourished. I do not understand all the negative comments pulled out of thin air towards AA. Could it be that his building costs threaten so many? Homeowners cannot be happy to see AA build a house like theirs well below what they paid a few years ago. In any market, there is a fabric that bonds the community together. AA is apparently viewed as an outsider who threatens that bond. Many comments in this thread are shameful.

__________________
"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time."

--Winston Churchill

AAbsolute

Kurt, Go ahead and close this Thread whenever you feel like it.

Hear me. If someone has got something to say about me you can call me or visit with me anytime or anywhere you want. I'm patient and will hear you out. If I can do something to help, I will.