Be aware that the developers of Redfish Village are asking the county for changes or amendments to their Development Order #402003. That is to say they want to do much more than what was requested and approved when this project originally went through the planning department and came before the county commissioners. The development is located across the street from the old Blue Mountain Beach subdivision north of 30-A. It runs from the northeast corner of the 30-A and highway 83 intersection east to Big Redfish Lake and north to the Lakeside At Blue Mountain Beach subdivision.
After having just gotten (last week) county approval to put a private beach access for their commercial development on what was at that point the location of a nice beachfront duplex, they are now saying they want to go into a preservation area on their property north of 30-A and add an open air theater, an additional pool and a board walk and dock on Big Redfish Lake. According to the county the developers have destroyed the preservation area on the east side of their property, which is located just west of Big Redfish Lake. We believe additional development in the area of this rare coastal dune lake will put additional pressure on this body of water. The county is considering this request, which was apparently made at a county technical review meeting 12/20/06. More recently various officials have been asked to comment on the proposed additions. We have just found out about the proposal on 1/30/07. The deadline for comments is 2/6/07.
We believe these are not small changes to the development. These amenities should have been requested when the development was originally proposed to give the community a chance to comment before the commissioners considered the plans for approval. Again, these changes are proposed for an area that is designated preservation. These areas should remain preserved and anything that has been disturbed should be restored. Those are the county rules. Furthermore these preservation areas may have helped garner approval for this development to begin with. If approved we believe the open air theater will produce a great deal of noise in the surrounding neighborhoods. We do not believe this is appropriate.
Despite reasonable protections for vegetation in the county code, these old trees continue to disappear. In large part this is because the county has failed to take any meaningful steps to enforce the code. Fencing off of protected areas is not required during construction and fines are rarely imposed and we are not sure they are ever collected. We negotiated with the developer of this property before he went to the county commissioners (BCC) for initial approval. Based in part on those negotiations we did not oppose the development at the BCC hearings and the development sailed through the process gaining quick approval.
The developer has already destroyed much of the vegetation along highway 83 that is designated preservation and some along 30-A. They were aware of this requirement to preserve the vegetation but stated to us they wanted to remove the native vegetation and landscape the areas. The county told them no. Nonetheless they have taken down much of the vegetation so they can move forward with “landscaping,” which is what they wanted to do to begin with. The county has failed to fine the developer or take any meaningful action. It is still not clear what if anything the developer will be required to do with regard to restoring the areas along 30-A and 83. In the past, where any restoration was required, the county environmental officer allowed trees that were not much more than four-foot tall twigs.
We recently asked developer Brad Zeitlin if he was committed to restoring the vegetation that was destroyed in the building process. He told us, “the landscape plan work we have been doing contemplates the replanting.” We asked what that meant, that it certainly did not sound like a commitment to restoration. He then wrote, “we are committed to replanting the preservation areas.” What they are committed to is a landscaping plan, not a restoration plan, which is what they wanted all along. He invited us to view the plans but has failed to set a date. Since our conversations with Zeitlin we have found out he has submitted landscaping plans to the county, and the county has told them to “remove some of the species that are not typically represented in the Sand Pine Scrub community.” We applaud that action on the part of the county and hope they will also require the developer to plant trees in similar density, height or diameter to the plants that originally existed on the site. They have not in the past.
If these proposals, destruction of trees and other vegetation in the preservation areas, an open air theater, an additional pool and a board walk and dock on Big Redfish Lake, concern you, speak out to our commissioners and to the planning department NOW.
Thank you.
Richard Fowlkes, President
Blue Mountain Beach Community Association
“Dedicated to the preservation of our residential community - its natural beauty and its quality of life – through education, communication, and cooperation”
... they are now saying they want to go into a preservation area on their property north of 30-A and add an open air theater, an additional pool and a board walk and dock on Big Redfish Lake. According to the county the developers have destroyed the preservation area on the east side of their property, which is located just west of Big Redfish Lake. We believe additional development in the area of this rare coastal dune lake will put additional pressure on this body of water. The county is considering this request, which was apparently made at a county technical review meeting 12/20/06. More recently various officials have been asked to comment on the proposed additions. We have just found out about the proposal on 1/30/07. The deadline for comments is 2/6/07.
...
I find it difficult to believe that such an active group like this group just found out about the proposal on 1/30/07 when I saw the Proposed Dock on Redfish Lake on the agenda for the Planning Dept in either late Dec or early Jan. Also, the advertisements for Redfish Village specifically state info about walking trails around the Lake. Why is this group suddenly so active, especially after keeping their mouths' zipped closed regarding the issue of Redfish Village's successful attempt at getting approved to use the property at 269 Blue Mtn Rd to extend the commercial development into a NPA-Infill zoned lot?
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"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
Oops. I cannot edit my post, but the address for that beach access is 260 Blue Mtn Rd, not 269.
I got news for you, you won't notice the noise from that ampitheatre when there are hundreds of people at the two developments across the Lake, or the extra few 800 or so people who will be flooding onto Blue Mtn Beach during the busy season. Doesn't make it right, but...
Before long, owners from Sanctuary at Redfish, and I use that term loosely, will be cranking up that batter operated pontoon barge and party on the Lake. Add to those people, all of the new owners of the forthcoming Sanctuary by the Sea. Big Redfish Lake is in for a heap of trouble compared to what it has been.
How about this for some future noise? "Sanctuary" by the Sea -- not anymore.
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"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
Last edited by Smiling JOe; 01-31-2007 at 09:49 PM.
Add to those people, all of the new owners of the forthcoming Sanctuary by the Sea. Big Redfish Lake is in for a heap of trouble compared to what it has been.
Just the other day, while driving past on 30A I really noticed just how LARGE the Sanctuary by the Sea complex is. It just seems to go on forever. Seeing it in the photo from across the lake, makes me shutter in distress. Or was that disgust?
Just the other day, while driving past on 30A I really noticed just how LARGE the Sanctuary by the Sea complex is. It just seems to go on forever. Seeing it in the photo from across the lake, makes me shutter in distress. Or was that disgust?
Yes, this photo shows just how massive it is. You should see it from the beach. Maybe I'll post a pic from the beach later when I get a chance.
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"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
SoWalSalley, Seems to me it is a loosing battle with the local commissioners. As one was not even there (For 260 Blue Mountain community) to vote for what was considered to be the biggest issue faced by the county other than the building height issue. You are not going to stop the VILLAGE from doing what they want. They have built homes without permits (prior to the village) and cleared the land with little or no resistance or fines.
They have to have all this completed by December 06. Sorry that is a typo on the website too. I think it is Feb. 07 now. They have to complete this project soon, so this will not be an issue you or the community will win. Give it up to the VILLAGE and let them break every rule and let the local elected officials create new zoning guide lines for the benefit of the VILLAGE. They will soon be gone from this community and hopefully the impact will not be as bad as we all think.
I know a few will jump on me for this post but I just wanted to make it clear do not start another thread to create anymore havoc for the VILLAGE. IT WILL NOT WORK.
I just wanted to make it clear do not start another thread to create anymore havoc for the VILLAGE. IT WILL NOT WORK. [/COLOR]
what the heck does that mean? havoc?? where are you coming from?
So,
1. what exactly are you trying to acomplish here?
2. do you own property on Blue Mountain Road?
3. do you own property in Blue Mountain Beach?
3. are you a former employee of RFV?
4. do you hold a current reservation in RFV?
Please don't think that Redfish Village is the only one who gets to break the rules without penalty. I can tell you about many more. Heck, look no further than the property adjacent and north of Redfish Village. Lakeside at Redfish built a freaking bridge across wetlands without a permit. I also seem to recall one particular development on 30A, illegally clear-cutting the property on Thanksgiving Day in 2005. You know that Code Enforcement doesn't work on holidays. No penalty was ever given. Look up at Freeport, where a Real Estate Broker and one of his agents, also a local Judge's son, bought some property, and illegally dredged canals into it, making more waterfront property. Fines were supposed to be charged around $1000+ per day that the property was not restored, but the canals still exists, and I am willing to bet you a beer that no fine is being collected. For example, just look at the following photo I took yesterday:
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Oops, sorry, I just needed a calming distraction . I have posted a couple of more from yesterday in the photo section.
__________________
"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
Last edited by Smiling JOe; 02-01-2007 at 08:47 PM.
what the heck does that mean? havoc?? where are you coming from?
So,
1. what exactly are you trying to acomplish here?
JR-You are like a gnat or a bad rash you just will not go away. You are getting on my nerves. Go play volleyball on the newly zoned commercial propery with your VILLAGE supporters. This is not a beach access thread that is designed to get all of BMBCA involved with local gov. That is a joke right?
Havoc? Do you believe for a moment that that Beach Access thread did not create issues for the VILLAGE? While it was short term it did at least get them to get proper Walton county elected official approval. LOL That is a joke too?
Again, All of these things are suppose to be approved before you get started with your development. Once again it is an example of saying one thing and doing another. I said it before and I will say it again. "GET IT IN WRITING." What do they think we have amnesia?
JR-I am not going to get started on the VILLAGE. However, I think it is time for someone in the community (Elected Officials) to make them play by the rules..What ever that is these days..
JR-You are like a gnat or a bad rash you just will not go away. You are getting on my nerves. Go play volleyball on the newly zoned commercial propery with your VILLAGE supporters. This is not a beach access thread that is designed to get all of BMBCA involved with local gov. That is a joke right?
getting on your nerves? that's rich. try reading your past posts they're better than the funny papers. where's the volleyball court? where is the thread designed to get BMBSS involved with govt? your attempts at clear, concise writing are quite humorous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edroedrog
Havoc? Do you believe for a moment that that Beach Access thread did not create issues for the VILLAGE? While it was short term it did at least get them to get proper Walton county elected official approval. LOL That is a joke too?
thanks to you? issues, maybe. havoc? the only havoc i encountered was trying to make sense of your posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edroedrog
JR-I am not going to get started on the VILLAGE.
too late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edroedrog
However, I think it is time for someone in the community (Elected Officials) to make them play by the rules..What ever that is these days..
i agree.
are you afraid to answer the questions i've posted? why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by John R
So,
1. what exactly are you trying to acomplish here?
2. do you own property on Blue Mountain Road?
3. do you own property in Blue Mountain Beach?
3. are you a former employee of RFV?
4. do you hold a current reservation in RFV?
Subject: ALERT! / Proposed Changes At Redfish Village Located At The Intersection of 30-A and Highway 83 May Impact You
BMBCA Members and Friends,
Thanks to those of you who wrote or called the planning department or your commissioner.
We want to let you know we received a telephone call this morning from the planning department telling us the Redfish Village request for changes or an amendment to their Development Order, which would have allowed open air theater, an additional pool and a board walk and dock on Big Redfish Lake, has been denied! This is great news.
We were also told the county is moving ahead to insure a good restoration plan is implemented by the developers.
We applaud the these actions on the part of Pat Blackshear and any other county officials contributed to this action.
Richard Fowlkes, President Blue Mountain Beach Community Association
"Dedicated to the preservation of our residential community - its natural beauty and its quality of life through education, communication, and cooperation"
Richard Fowlkes, President Blue Mountain Beach Community Association
"Dedicated to the preservation of our residential community - its natural beauty and its quality of life through education, communication, and cooperation"
Surprised to see EDROEDROG here? Not a chance. So EVERYBODY knows from the beach access thread Edroedrog is a contract holder at Redfish, doesn't live in Walton County, doesn't own property here and is desperately trying to smear the developer and find a reason to get out of his contract. I had a stake in the beach access but don't have one in this thread. But everybody should know that Edroe will stop at nothing to LIE on this thread and try to smear people that I like. I will now monitor his actions here as I did on the beach access board. His lies are soon to catch up with him.
Last edited by Kevin Thompson; 02-01-2007 at 10:03 PM.
Surprised to see EDROEDROG here? Not a chance. So EVERYBODY knows from the beach access thread Edroedrog is a contract holder at Redfish, doesn't live in Walton County, doesn't own property here and is desperately trying to smear the developer and find a reason to get out of his contract. I had a stake in the beach access but don't have one in this thread. But everybody should know that Edroe will stop at nothing to LIE on this thread and try to smear people that I like. I will now monitor his actions here as I did on the beach access board. His lies are soon to catch up with him.
kevin, how are you aware of edroe's identity and his motivation? it would be really cool if he answered the direct questions that he continues to evade. it would probably end up as gibberish if he did answer.
Surprised to see EDROEDROG here? Not a chance. So EVERYBODY knows from the beach access thread Edroedrog is a contract holder at Redfish, doesn't live in Walton County, doesn't own property here and is desperately trying to smear the developer. I had a stake in the beach access but don't have one in this thread, don't really understand it yet. But everybody should know that Edroe will stop at nothing to LIE on this thread and try to smear people that I like. I will now monitor his actions here as I did on the beach access board. His lies are soon to catch up with him.
KT-No contract with me.
KT-Is another gnat that works for the VILLAGE. Everybody his job is to come on this site and try to discredit anyone who post anything against the VILLAGE and not support HIS community.
KT are you getting paid to post on SoWal too for the VILLAGE?
WHAT LIES? Please do not bring up the 20 percent thing again. I told you already that I was wrong about that and everyone knows that by now.
"RESIDENCES. A pair of weathered cedar and sun-washed stucco four-story buildings house well-appointed condominiums ideal for a second home, a vacation property, or the year-round residence you've always dreamed of. Each spacious, two-bedroom or three-bedroom unit features tasteful wood cabinetry, granite countertops, and upscale appliances. Flooring includes wood, ceramic tile and carpeting. One building is a lively mix of residential and upscale retail and restaurant space. The other is purely residential, offering convenient access to the pool, amphitheatre, children's play garden and scenic walking and biking trails around Redfish Lake. Other amenities include a private owners' lounge, and covered and valet parking."
If they were truly denied the ampitheatre and "trails around the Redfish Lake," there may be some material changes to the contracts or property worth investigating for the buyers. I have always wondered how they were going to create trails "around" the Lake when they don't own most of the property around the Lake. Perhaps the better word choice could have been "near."
Any attorneys out there want to comment?
__________________
"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
Johnr he was famous on the beach access board and as you read through it you can see his desperation to grasp at anything, now he has started it on this thread quickly with the same kind of statements. I have gotten to know some people well enough to know he has said things directly enough, just go read back through what he said that he will soon be in a bit of trouble.
Surprised to see EDROEDROG here? Not a chance. So EVERYBODY knows from the beach access thread Edroedrog is a contract holder at Redfish, doesn't live in Walton County, doesn't own property here and is desperately trying to smear the developer and find a reason to get out of his contract. I had a stake in the beach access but don't have one in this thread. But everybody should know that Edroe will stop at nothing to LIE on this thread and try to smear people that I like. I will now monitor his actions here as I did on the beach access board. His lies are soon to catch up with him.
Monitor me please. I love it when you prove me wrong. This is going to be fun.
Johnr he was famous on the beach access board and as you read through it you can see his desperation to grasp at anything, now he has started it on this thread quickly with the same kind of statements. I have gotten to know some people well enough to know he has said things directly enough, just go read back through what he said that he will soon be in a bit of trouble.
Kevin you do not scare me. How can I get in trouble for making statements that are true? Your attempts to discredit me are killing me.
"RESIDENCES. A pair of weathered cedar and sun-washed stucco four-story buildings house well-appointed condominiums ideal for a second home, a vacation property, or the year-round residence you've always dreamed of. Each spacious, two-bedroom or three-bedroom unit features tasteful wood cabinetry, granite countertops, and upscale appliances. Flooring includes wood, ceramic tile and carpeting. One building is a lively mix of residential and upscale retail and restaurant space. The other is purely residential, offering convenient access to the pool, amphitheatre, children's play garden and scenic walking and biking trails around Redfish Lake. Other amenities include a private owners' lounge, and covered and valet parking."
If they were truly denied the ampitheatre and "trails around the Redfish Lake," there may be some material changes to the contracts or property worth investigating for the buyers. I have always wondered how they were going to create trails "around" the Lake when they don't own most of the property around the Lake. Perhaps the better word choice could have been "near."
Any attorneys out there want to comment?
Thanks SJ. I am not going to go around in circles with KT or JR anymore.
Wow Edroe have not seen you panic so quickly like this. I am not trying to scare you. I have nothing to do with your situation. Just answering Johnr's question. Believe me boy I have no reason to lie about what I told him. And you discredited yourself on the beach access thread.
...
Again, All of these things are suppose to be approved before you get started with your development....
Can you please show me where in the Code, that this is stated. Now, again, to advertise any ammenity, in advance as a sure thing, could get any developer into big trouble, and I think we are beginning to see that happen here. Will buyers be able to back out of their contracts with Redfish Village? We will soon see.
I think one major factor here that no one has mentioned is that when these units were pre-sold, the market was booming and the developer probably wouldn't care if he couldn't get things approved and people backed out, because at the rate the market was going, he could have sold the units for even more money. Now that the market is tight, the situation is a bit different.
__________________
"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
Last edited by Smiling JOe; 02-01-2007 at 10:36 PM.
Wow Edroe have not seen you panic so quickly like this. I am not trying to scare you. I have nothing to do with your situation. Just answering Johnr's question. Believe me boy I have no reason to lie about what I told him. And you discredited yourself on the beach access thread.
Do not get confused KT.
Forgot all questions are directed to you on SoWal. You have all the answers. You are in the KNOW.
Living in Blue Mountain many of us know Richard Fowlkes very well. Using his BMBCA pulpit he has pushed many of us around maybe all of us. What I find very interesting is that in his recent letter he writes when talking about the original approval for Redfish Village including the lots behind the big buildings called Lakeside at Blue Mountain:
"Based in part on those negotiations we did not oppose the development at the BCC hearings and the development sailed through the process gaining quick approval." Richard Fowlkes
What we in Blue Mountain know is that he is talking about when he says "the development" he is talking about the previous developer who sold this property to the current developers of Redfish. And for some reason he backed off opposing The Preserve and Lakeside at Blue Mountain (the original name for Redfish Village when the previous developer had it) while it looks like he is not backing off the main Redfish project. For some other reason it looks to me (and many of us in Blue Mountain may know about this) like he made a pretty penny on some very hard to get lots direct from the original developer which he speaks about back when the market was good and flipped them (just check out the public records):
LOT 15 BLK 1 BLUE MOUNTAIN BEACH #1
LOT 107 PRESERVE AT GRAYTON BEACH
LOT 126 LAKESIDE AT BLUE MOUNTAIN BEACH
Wait, are you saying that while Richard was fighting the original developer he took ownership of some lots in the same development then for some reason didn't oppose the project in the BCC meeting and the development as he says it "sailed through"?
I wonder what "Based in part on those negotiations we did not oppose the development ..." means?
An interesting question (all questions) would be "does Richard serve his own interests and not the interests of his neighbors like me"? Is he quiet when he has something to gain? Can he be bought? Is it possible that the Redfish people wouldn't pay him off? Although I am part of Blue Mountain and had an interest in whether The Preserve and Lakeside "sailed through" for some reason I couldn't get any of those lots he got. Good job Richard. Not all your neighbors appreciate the way you operate. And not all of us believe everything you write in your self-serving letters.
Last edited by Kevin Thompson; 02-02-2007 at 08:26 AM.
KT - I deleted your previous post because it was not only confusing but seemed to contain some serious accusations. You posted parts of a letter from an individual. Was this a private letter or public? Maybe if you back up and fill us in we will see the relevance and I will understand what you were getting at.
I can't believe you deleted that post. Why don't you delete the one from Sowal Sally which contains as you say some serious accusations? Where is the back up for that? The "part" of the letter is from the posting on page one of this board from the letter from Richard Fowlkes. He wrote it. And everything else said there is a fact. You ask about relevance? 90% of the twenty pages on the beach access thread and most of them here are a series of unproven serious accusations but for some reason you just choose to delete my posts. People have been questioning character and maligning people I know and you haven't stopped one of those posts. I am questioning the character of Richard Fowlkes with facts about his dealings with a developer. Is this supposed to be a fair forum? I am asking you to put my post back up.
And are you kidding me with deleting because it was confusing? Go look at some of Edroedrog's posts. Are you joking.
Last edited by Kevin Thompson; 02-02-2007 at 04:33 PM.
I can't believe you deleted that post. Why don't you delete the one from Sowal Sally which contains as you say some serious accusations? Where is the back up for that? The "part" of the letter is from the posting on page one of this board from the letter from Richard Fowlkes. He wrote it. And everything else said there is a fact. You ask about relevance? 90% of the twenty pages on the beach access thread and most of them here are a series of unproven serious accusations but for some reason you just choose to delete my posts. People have been questioning character and maligning people I know and you haven't stopped one of those posts. I am questioning the character of Richard Fowlkes with facts about his dealings with a developer. Is this supposed to be a fair forum? I am asking you to put my post back up.
And are you kidding me with deleting because it was confusing? Go look at some of Edroedrog's posts. Are you joking.
Calm down. I did not see the name on the first post and you could have referred to it or quoted it to help us out. And you are leveling some serious accusations and I advise you to watch it. You are treading on thin ice. As I have said many times in the past we don't allow personal attacks, especially against people who are not here to defend themselves.
Kevin, those are powerful accusations. I double checked with County records and those three properties are interesting tidbits of info that is new to me. It does seem that Richard has been caught with his hands in the cookie jar. Doesn't mean much, as he could have purchased the properties on the up and up, like many other people did. It is interesting, though.
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"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
Calm down. I did not see the name on the first post and you could have referred to it or quoted it to help us out. And you are leveling some serious accusations and I advise you to watch it. You are treading on thin ice. As I have said many times in the past we don't allow personal attacks, especially against people who are not here to defend themselves.
I've restored it but I still see it as confusing.
First of all Kurt I have not leveled any accusations. I have posted facts and once again I will state that I have asked questions. If you want an example of an accusation which you should delete it would be something like Edroedrog #8 on this thread but for some reason you ignore his posts and only delete my mine.
I am hearing you say you don't allow personal attacks but you do. I would ask somebody independent like Smiling Joe or Johnr to comment on whether there were any personal attacks on the beach access thread.
There is a trust that we have here that you are neutral and treat everybody fairly. You might not like it but deleting my posts, telling me to "watch it" when you allow all the trash posted over the past couple months is not perceived as fair by me or I would suspect several other people here. You own this site and can do what you want but you know what they say about absolute power. Use yours carefully.
Kevin, those are powerful accusations. I double checked with County records and those three properties are interesting tidbits of info that is new to me. It does seem that Richard has been caught with his hands in the cookie jar. Doesn't mean much, as he could have purchased the properties on the up and up, like many other people did. It is interesting, though.
I will say it again SJ that these are not accusations. These are questions. I know you know how to use the public records, can you tell how much money was made? Anybody can buy property and flip it nothing wrong with that but it is very interesting knowing how Richard acts about who he is and what he stands for. Does it make sense for him to sit back and let a development in his own front yard sail through? The FACTS are presented on the public records. That is all I am asserting. Draw your own conclusions on the rest of it.
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. I have posted a couple of more from yesterday in the photo section.
they're better than the funny papers. where's the volleyball court? where is the thread designed to get BMBSS involved with govt? your attempts at clear, concise writing are quite humorous.
Can you please show me where in the Code, that this is stated. 
Now, again, to advertise any ammenity, in advance as a sure thing, could get any developer into big trouble, and I think we are beginning to see that happen here. Will buyers be able to back out of their contracts with Redfish Village? We will soon see. 
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