Miss Quitty

Oh my! What does this mean? Are there some evil Republicans out there? Or maybe it's OK to murder Grandma. What's the deal? Help me.

ISS - "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?

aggieb

rock the boat, don't rock the boat johnny.

hnooe

What is wrong with talking about and making end of life options with your family--or should everyone just end up like poor Terry Shiavo, on never ending life support, extending the grief of the family, and spending hundreds of thousands to keep someone totally brain dead alive!

John R

She is an amazing woman.

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Here4Good

Well, in the Schiavo case, they made the decisions.

Lynnie

Education of such things, not dictation by a Gov't Czar.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

Here4Good

She was what, 30 when she went into the coma? How many 30-year olds have living wills?

And, yet, now people think a doctor talking to their mama about it is equivalent to measuring her for a casket.

Here4Good

And seriously, there is no mandate in the works for forcing you to have a living will. Seriously.

And, as I have said before, "Keep me alive at all costs and with all means necessary" is a legitimate advance directive.

TooFarTampa

That's what many of us were thinking when all those government types (Frist, Jeb, Martinez, etc) tried to step in when they had absolutely no business doing so. And that was an actual attempt at government interference, not a predicted or hypothesized one.

So I do agree that we should be wary of government "interference."

Totally off-topic, Glenn Beck was just a Tampa-area radio host back then. I kind of liked listening to him in the early years, but during Schaivo's last months is when I noticed he was completely off the reservation. He is worse now.

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Proud to practice indoctrination
at least when it comes to the GATOR NATION

hnooe

In the Schiavo case the govt. was forced to make the decision, unfortunately.

I know you associate me with "government", but here I was talking about a family conversation regarding living wills....or, are you against families making private end of life decisions?

30ashopper

The government didn't make the decision, the courts had to decide who had say in the matter. Government (wrongly) tried to have a say, but thankfully that was prevented.

aleonard

Sometimes it a good thing to have oversight.

But as the Anchorage Daily News reported this last July, the situation in the state's Medicare- and Medicaid-funded in-home elder care program became so bad that the federal government had to step in and force Alaska to make necessary improvements.

In one 2 1/2 year stretch, 227 adults already getting services died while waiting for a nurse to reassess their needs. Another 27 died waiting for their initial assessment, to see if they qualified for help.

The feds had been tipped off to the systemic problems by doctors and other health care providers, who found the state unresponsive when confronted with their incompetence. No other state faced comparable problems.

UPDATE: Some have questioned whether the troubling two-and-a-half years during which the 254 neglected elderly people died coincided with Palin's tenure as governor. According to the actual federal report (also see the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) Focused Review of Senior and Disabilities Services Medicaid waiver and Personal Care Assistance programs webpage here), "The review covered the years 2006 through April of 2009." Since Palin was elected Governor of Alaska in November 2006 and resigned on July 26, 2009 - yes, she was in office.

http://www.hss.state.ak.us/dsds/cmsr...r_06-26-09.pdf

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beachmouse

Do you have a linky to the Alaska story? I know some people who might be interested in it, but I won't pass it along without a citable source.

aleonard

Sorry, They didn't show up in the first post.

Troubled Alaska health programs face federal restriction: Health | adn.com

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Lynnie

That case should have been a wake up call for all Americans to plan for the unexpected. Everyone today should have a Will, POA, Durable POA, Living Will.....and, I think there is one more.....I'd have to go pull my file.....make them uncontestable, review them every so often to make certain your wishes remain constant as you age. I don't remember what all of these docs cost me, but it was less than $800, I think. And, some of these forms, you can get on line for much, much less! I think you just have to make certain they are witnessed properly, etc.

This keep the courts out of the hospital room. And, the only reason we need this is once you are on life support, it is considered murder if a physician removes the support, despite your wishes. To have your family and the State argue over your wishes is deemed selfish by some.

Unfortunately, The Schiavo case was probably quickly forgotten as people put their planning off or didn't want to pay an atty. to draw the docs, etc. Now, our gov't can attempt to force it in the guise of health care reform.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

hnooe

[quote=Lynnie;597456]That case should have been a wake up call for all Americans to plan for the unexpected. Everyone today should have a Will, POA, Durable POA, Living Will.....and, I think there is one more.....I'd have to go pull my file.....make them uncontestable, review them every so often to make certain your wishes remain constant as you age. I don't remember what all of these docs cost me, but it was less than $800, I think. And, some of these forms, you can get on line for much, much less! I think you just have to make certain they are witnessed properly, etc.

This keep the courts out of the hospital room. And, the only reason we need this is once you are on life support, it is considered murder if a physician removes the support, despite your wishes. To have your family and the State argue over your wishes is deemed selfish by some.

Unfortunately, The Schiavo case was probably quickly forgotten as people put their planning off or didn't want to pay an atty. to draw the docs, etc. Now, our gov't can attempt to force it in the guise of health care reform.[/quote]

Seems "Birthers" "Teabaggers", and (now) "Deathers" all play well together in the same sand box.

LuciferSam

There might be a single name for them that sums it up.

The Last Gasp of the Angry White Man | The Smirking Chimp

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

Bob

well written summary of the "fearlings".

hnooe

YES! And they walk amongst us here on sowal.

Sure they are nameless, faceless, and profile-less like most Sowallers--BUT so very easy to figure out Usually in the first sentence!

Mango

Miss Quitty has it all wrong. It's not a "Death Panel" it's a Death Squad and they only will come and confiscate purple pills.

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seanote

Apparently George W. Bush has no problems with 'death panels'.




The provision in the health care reform bill HR 3200 simply gives people the option to speak with their doctor about end of life care, living wills, etc. They are not forced to do this and there is no government panel saying when they should be denied treatment.

hnooe

Yes I can name that tune in....2 notes!

But I can also tell your a good egg, Blair, I got good Republican family members in both Memph and Cookville! I'd have you over to the family BBQ next month!

Lynnie

[quote=hnooe;597642]I don't understand what you are saying. Sorry. My comments have nothing to do with a birther (don't even know what that is), a teabagger or a deather? What sandbox are you referencing?

My comments were to point out that the Shiavo case made national news for several weeks. Death is ok to think about. Brain dead is ok to think about and people should plan......other than that, I have no idea what you are talking about, hnooe.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

LuciferSam

Birthers, deathers, teabaggers, swift boaters. It's all about repeatedly spamming the American public with misleading statements. That's the sandbox.

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

scooterbug44

I don't actually have the paperwork, but I have had the discussions w/ my family. Both my parents actually have the legal paperwork and I am their default if the spouse is not able to make the decisions.

Mama Scooterbug will pull the plug, donate all my organs except skin (I quibble about the eyes because I can actually see those), and cremate the rest.

The government isn't going to reduce my life expectancy just because I had an intelligent conversation about my future.

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

Bob

Blair is a good egg!

Lake View Too

Birthers are people that think Obama was not born in the USA even though his birth certificate has been produced Ad Naseum. Deathers think the Healthcare ReForm Bill will lead to govt. enforced euthanasia(sp). I think the bill has been drafted simply to say that if you wish to talk to your physician about end of life issues, on the "govt. program" it would be covered once every five years. It seems to me that A.there is no mandate in print or in sight, ever. and B. if you don't want this provision in your health coverage, you can buy your health coverage from a private carrier. I don't know if I'm analyzing this correctly, but that gives me at least three ways to avoid talking to a doctor about death. Don't ask the doctor for a consultation, don't get the govt. health insurance, or don't go to the doctor at all.

Teabaggers are just people that are angry about anything. To me, I'd call them all "shout-downers".

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My mind tends to wander... but fortunately, it's so weak, it doesn't get very far...

aleonard

'Euthanasia' Is Taking Health Care Debate Too Far


Political Noise Has Led to 'Hideous Misrepresentation' of Medical Profession, One Doctor Says


Opinion by DR. LEN LICHTENFELD
Aug. 12, 2009

375 comments

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Someone's intent to do a good and necessary deed has now been transformed into a hideous misrepresentation that not only affects our humanity and dignity as a nation, but goes to the heart of the physician-patient relationship and the responsibility that physicians have to provide healing and comfort as well as treatment.
That's our oath, and that's what we are supposed to do. Recognizing that imperative is not something that should be punished as an evil act.
Perhaps some background would be helpful in framing the issue:
Medicare is supposed to only pay for medically necessary and effective care. It is not allowed to provide other services such as screening or prevention unless specifically authorized by Congress.

End-of-life counseling falls under the category of non-covered services, but probably gets into the payment mix as part of other billing codes doctors use to get paid for more routine "evaluation and management" services.
Providing explicit payment for this service will encourage appropriate and needed discussions between physicians and patients on this very important, difficult and humanitarian topic.
For years, many of us have been concerned about end-of-life issues, such as living wills, pain management and hospice care. Counseling our patients as they age about their options -- and equally important, understanding what our patients' wishes may be -- is an honored part of the physician-patient relationship, especially for primary care internists, family physicians and oncologists. The reality is that we have not been as successful as we need to be in encouraging these discussions.
We have tried for years to get people to sign living wills and provide durable powers of attorney for health care. Medical professionals need guidance -- preferably in advance of the moment -- on what patients want done, either at the time when their lives are coming to an end or when they may not be able to speak for themselves.

for the rest click here
Health Care Reform Debate Turns to Euthanasia, Death Panel Gone Too Far - ABC News

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Lynnie

Thanks, LS. That has nothing to do with my post.

Scooterbugg44, I don't think the gov't will reduce your life expectancy at all. There was a question posed by Here4Good about Schiavo only being 30 years old and who at that age has planned to be brain dead and on life support? My post was in response to that.

Hnooe's assumption regarding my post is just that, an assumption.

That's all - no big deal! Glad you've had the conversation. I would have it tightened up as a physician won't remove life support without your wishes in writing, etc........

Disclaimer: This is just a suggestion and not advice. I state this so I am not misunderstood again.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

Lynnie

Thanks! I'm not a birther, a deather or a teabagger, but I respect those who are and don't really concern myself with them.

Disclaimer: neither am I a person who posts or lives my life based upon instilling fear in others.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

LuciferSam

Yes it does. You made a misleading statement and I'll remind you. You said "...Now, our gov't can attempt to force it [planning] in the guise of health care reform. " That's simply not true. The end of life consultations are optional, not forced. That is the kind of statement a deather would make.

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

Lake View Too

It really seems like the govt. just wants to encourage people to deal with end of life issues in a really voluntary and benighn(sp) way. Why have the shout-downers tried to distort it so much... and for that matter, why don't the Dems just drop the provision that the one consultation every five years will be covered. It really doesn't seem that important.

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My mind tends to wander... but fortunately, it's so weak, it doesn't get very far...

LuciferSam

That would be appeasing the nutjobs.

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

Lynnie

Nothing misleading.....don't forget the word 'attempt.' We are talking health care reform vs. single payor system. I am not a birther, deather, shouter or teabagger. And, if someone thought I meant something different, then a question as opposed to a statement would have been more appropriate.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

LuciferSam

No evidence there will even be an attempt. Misleading all the way.

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

poppy

Show me evidence Dick Cheney isn't forming a death squad of ex-CIA sharpshooters to exterminate seniors with shotgun blasts to the face.

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"We must recognize the fact that adequate food is only the first requisite for life. For a decent and humane life we must also provide an opportunity for good education, remunerative employment, comfortable housing, good clothing and effective and compassionate medical care." Norman Borlaug

Rita

.
From Politifact.com truth-o-meter:


PolitiFact | McCaughey claims end-of-life counseling will be required for Medicare patients

".... In her chat with Thompson, McCaughey said the language can be found on page 425 of the health care bill, so we started there. Indeed, Sec. 1233 of the bill, labeled "Advance Care Planning Consultation" details how the bill would, for the first time, require Medicare to cover the cost of end-of-life counseling sessions.

According to the bill, "such consultation shall include the following: An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to; an explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses; an explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy."

Medicare will cover one session every five years, the legislation states. If a patient becomes very ill in the interim, Medicare will cover additional sessions.

Jon Keyserling, general counsel and vice president of public policy for the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization, which supports the provision, said the bill doesn't encourage seniors to end their lives, it just allows some important counseling for decisions that take time and consideration.

"These are very serious conversations," he said. "It needs to be an informative conversation from the medical side and it needs to be thought about carefully by the patient and their families."

In no way would these sessions be designed to encourage patients to end their lives, said Jim Dau, national spokeman for AARP, a group that represents people over 50 that has lobbied in support of the advanced planning provision. ..................

"Neither of us can come to the conclusion that it's mandatory." he said. "This new consultation is just like all in Medicare: it's voluntary."

"The only thing mandatory is that Medicare will have to pay for the counseling," said Dau. ....................."


.

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"Peace .... starts with the person who attempts to diffuse the tension and backs away from the inflammatory rhetoric."

LuciferSam

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

Lake View Too

You guys are so funny. Excuse me for a minute, there's a guy with dark glasses carrying a gun bag at my door and I need to see what he wants...I'll be right back...

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My mind tends to wander... but fortunately, it's so weak, it doesn't get very far...

TooFarTampa

If there are black helicopters circling overhead don't open it.

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Proud to practice indoctrination
at least when it comes to the GATOR NATION

LuciferSam

Straight from the deather talking points memo. No, the burden of proof is on you.

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

Yarmap

Just because you're paranoid dosen't mean the're not watching you!!!

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" The man who views the world at fifty the same as he does at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life."------Muhammad Ali

30ashopper

I don't think they're angry about anything, I think they are concerned about the reform being pushed through some bills, and rightfully so. Times of crisis serve as excellent opportunities for pushing fringe agenda, as the Pelosi bill demonstrates.

All in all, I'm impressed, amazed, and feeling very en-heartened at how so may have chosen to get involved and have a say. These folks are forcing a national discussion the Pelosi's of the world would rather avoid, so I’m not surprised she is running around trying to demonize these folks. They are a thorn in the side of her very aggressive liberal agenda. More power to them!

All-in-all, blaming these folks for all the disinformation seems a little misguided to me - I think Congress and the President are to blame, they have done a horrible job of communicating all the different bills and the varying initiatives in each currently being considered.

poppy

Isn't it in the health care bill right beside the death panel mandate?

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"We must recognize the fact that adequate food is only the first requisite for life. For a decent and humane life we must also provide an opportunity for good education, remunerative employment, comfortable housing, good clothing and effective and compassionate medical care." Norman Borlaug

hnooe

Obama at the end of the day will forget the 2 Republicans that are moderates (boy that breed sure died), get from the moderate Dems what they need, and push the damn thing through with enough votes-- time has ended for engaging the "No/I Don't Know/Stall at Any Cost" party --go Barack!

Time of crisis' also serve as excellent times to get thing done in a positive, progressive manner--one other unnamed President chose to take a time of crisis (9/11) and get their "evil fringe agenda" (s) done and pushed through, while lying to the nation at the same time.

I'd rather "positive agendas" get pushed through than ones that violated the sanctiuty of the U.S. Constitutions, unneccessarily shed the blood of hundreds of thousand of Iranians and Americans, and cost wasted taxpayer billions by the out and out fear mongering and lies created by the last unnamed Administration.

Bob

draft dodgers shoot to kill

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Bob

teabag threat level is elevated

Bob

just wait until social security gets penciled...they'll be throwing dentures

hnooe

What 'Orange' pico'?

mtlinscomb

Time of crisis - somewhat like: Invetsor's Business Daily Editorial 9/1/98 "We took President Clinton's word that bombing Sudan and Afghanistan was necessary and that our forces punished the right people. We should have known better. His original story, as usual, isn't holding up to scrutiny. On Aug. 20, three days after half-confessing to lying about Monica Lewinsky, Clinton ordered our military to pump as many as 20 Tomahawk missiles into a plant in Sudan, a Muslim nation with which we have heretofore had no major quarrel. Clinton ordered another 60 or so Tomahawks launched against six camps near Khost, Afghanistan. To justify its attacks, the White House invoked the specters of nerve gas and a gathering of international terrorists. Yet over the past 11 days, press reports have put the lie to several statements made by Clinton and his officers to justify the two attacks. As these statements have become inoperative, officials have spun new justifications - further raising suspicions the attacks were ordered to shift attention from Clinton's personal woes."

The thing I can't stand about most liberals is their selective memories and their support for military action only when it is waged by someone sharing the same ideology. The conduct and attitude of some of your party's highest level representatives over the last 8 years has been nothing short of treasonous and disgusting. Please don't forget your shiit smells, too! And please take note that our current unnamed President has lied more in 6 months than a Chicago bred politician does in a lifetime.