sunspotbaby

Sucks sometimes to be white in America too. It sucks at times to be whatever, or whoever you happen to be whether you're red or yellow, black or white or a freaking purple cat! Of course, if I were a Harvard Professor and the POTUS was one of my buds, I'd probably feel a little bit above the law too.

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Don't confuse having less with being less, having more with being more, or what you have with who you are. Noah benShea

goodwitch58

yeah, and if one has never experienced discrimination, then one tends not to understand or be aware. I will share one more story:

I am white and was brought up in a home that taught respect for everyone, and especially for those in authority--I did not grew up in a wealthy home, but I did grow up never knowing what it meant to be discriminated against because of the color of my skin or how much money I had or the fact that I am a girl.

On our farm, we had equal opportunity--we all did chores and suffered the consequences if we did not. So, I had no frame of reference for being treated differently because of any those things.

As a young married woman I went live in a country where the people were a different color from me and they were the residents of their country. We were the "outsiders". When we first arrived there was no housing available for us, so we lived "in the village" -- and what a great experience that was. My husband and I both loved it--we had great neighbors, and there were lots of children, and we were invited to the fiestas and to homes for meals. I had a red MG convertible that was constantly needing to be worked on, and my husband was a great mechanic for cars, so the car was more often than not in our carport, with the hood up undergoing its latest "tune up"....one day, we came home from work to find the car still in the carport, but all four wheels were gone! Not just the tires, the rims, everything. We were aghast--who would steal our wheels? We did what every American has been taught to do: we called the cops.

The officer came over and looked around and asked us some questions and then said he would need to get our statement, so could he come inside and sit down. We said sure and invited him in...he sat at our dining room table, and wrote out our statements and we signed them, and then he stood up and looked around our house. As he was going out the door, I asked "when do you think we will know something? do you think we will get them back?"

I will never forget what happened next. He was a very tall man, so tall that he needed to look down at me--I am 5'7"--he looked down at me, then looked around our house one more time, and said, "well, you are a rich statesider, you can afford to buy more. I don't imagine we will find them."

We were speechless. And yet, he was the authority--there was absolutely nothing we could do.

That would have been the end of the story except for our neighbors. They had seen the policeman over at our house and when he left, several of them hurried over. We told them what had happened and what the cop had said.

At that moment, my faith in humanity was restored because, to a person, our neighbors all said, "that is not right, we will find your wheels."

My husband and I spent that night wondering what on earth would happen next not really believing that the neighbors could get the wheels back even if they were sincere in wanting to...

The next afternoon, when we arrived home from work, there was my little car--complete with all four wheels waiting for us.

Our neighbors had put out a "whisper campaign" that we were good people and that whoever had taken the wheels needed to return them, and they had.

Not only that, but the chief (Mayor) of the village came by to let us know that the policeman had been reprimanded for his attitude and the chief apologized to us on behalf of the police department.

We were of course delighted to have our property back, but I will always be grateful for the lesson that I learned about how it feels to be a minority and to be treated badly just because I was different.

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

Here4Good

He didn't. This was a press conference, it was a question from the press. I couldn't believe it came up.

singinchicken

Ipso facto, it was something he was prepared to acknowledge and discuss because we all know well and good that the press who ask questions are all contacted in advance so it was hardly an unforseen question. He knew it was coming...

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LuciferSam

I don't know. Smart people know how to get a read on things. Residents look like residents, and burglars look like burglars. Black residents break into their own houses as do white residents [I've broken in to mine]. If I had been the arresting officer I'd have said "hello sir, I hope everything is OK. We had reports of somebody trying to break in to your house and we noticed that your door was damaged". Then gauge the guy's reaction and take it from there. Cause you know that's what the officer would have said if a white man answered the door and the alleged burglars had been white.

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

poppy

Are you saying that Bush knew for the last eight years what questions were to be asked at press conferences and still could only come up with" 911" and "terrorists" for answers?

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"We must recognize the fact that adequate food is only the first requisite for life. For a decent and humane life we must also provide an opportunity for good education, remunerative employment, comfortable housing, good clothing and effective and compassionate medical care." Norman Borlaug

Johnrudy

You must be joking, right? Most cops don't have time to assess as you suggest here. Maybe I'm jaded but there are cops who get their heads blown off if they were to stand around and ask cordial questions.

The professor acted like a a-hole and so he was treated in kind.

And burglars act like burlgars. What the helll does that mean?

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LuciferSam

How does not being cordial help to assure a cop's safety??? That makes no sense at all. And what did the cop end up doing? Standing around and asking questions. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Acting like an a-hole is no crime. Nobody should get arrested for that.

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

Susan Horn

In public? This man was in his own home, and then in his own yard. Not public property or public commons. His privacy was invaded. He had every right to raise a stink and last time I checked it's not illegal to have some righteous indignation in your own home.

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

Susan Horn

Evidence of a burglary, or mere suspicion of a burglary?

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

Lynnie

Same here. Neighbor just recently set my alarm off and of course really handsome Cop shows up. She has records to this house, so all was ok. It was several hours before I knew what was going on.

Another time, friend entered my home, alarm goes off, and I drive up to my house to greet cops all over my property.

Trust me, in every incident, every person is extremely cooperative, polite and thankful that our police show up as quickly as they do. They are always happy when it is a false alarm.

The word stupid isn't in my vocabulary.

They take oaths. I expect they respond post haste.


Semantics!!

It's coming.

The President has no business being involved in this incident.

I don't blame this cop for taking a stand on his procedure and protocol. I wouldn't make an apology either. Municipalities have sovereign immunity. It's exactly situations like this that they need this protection. Or, they would risk being sued in more frivolous cases than physicians! Now, had the cop been out of line, that would be a different story.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

Gidget

Interesting:

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- The white police sergeant criticized by President Barack Obama for arresting black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his Massachusetts home is a police academy expert on racial profiling. Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class on racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.
The course, called "Racial Profiling," teaches about different cultures that officers could encounter in their community "and how you don't want to single people out because of their ethnic background or the culture they come from," Fleming said.
Meanwhile, Crowley disclosed in an interview with the Boston Herald that he gave mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to NBA star Reggie Lewis.
"I wasn't working on Reggie Lewis the basketball star. I wasn't working on a black man. I was working on another human being," Sgt. James Crowley, told the Boston Herald.
The Celtics star suffered a fatal heart attack in 1993 during a practice at Brandeis University, where Crowley was a campus cop.
Crowley also said there is no way he'll apologize to Gates, who has demanded an apology.
"I just have nothing to apologize for," he told the Herald. "It will never happen."
Gates was arrested last Thursday after neighbors reported a possible break-in at his house. But Gates was simply trying to get into his own home.
When he was confronted by cops, he refused to identify himself, the police said.
As he was taken away, Gates said, "This is what happens to black men in America!"
He was charged with disorderly conduct, though the charges were later dropped.
Gates believes he was targeted because of his race.
President Obama weighed in on the issue last night at a press conference, saying cops acted "stupidly" in arresting Gates.


***


I am trying to look at this from the angle of what I would I have done if I had been the prof. Hard to say because things may have been different in my mind AND in the mind of the cop. If a cop saw me he'd probably assume I lived there - not the case necessarily with the prof. even though this seems to have been a highly trained police officer.

Being the daughter of a police captain (now deceased) I can say without a doubt that it is a difficult job and even the best cops make stupid mistakes. (my dad was a great police officer of course! )

In this case, even though it was his own home, the prof. might have thought - hmmmm, what if this were in fact a real burgler, I'd be thanking this police officer. Instead, he got defensive. I understand why the prof. acted as he did - he thought this wouldn't have happened had he been white and that his home is his castle. It is so hard to be perfect and he was tired and upset and SHOCKED I am sure to be questioned in his own home. Perhaps the cop could have approached the entire thing differently.... we were not there. We will never know.

Obama, like any other politician, should have refrained from using the word "stupid" and have stuck with the standard "no comment until I know more." Damned if you do and damned if you don't - so don't - at least there won't be a sound bite which I am sure is being played over and over.

I hope this is the end of all this. It gets us NO WHERE. Group hug is right!!





G

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Lynnie

Maybe someone can write a book and produce a movie.

edited part: I was going to state something that occurred to me, but I just don't have the energy.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

singinchicken

I absolutely did not say that Bush knew what was coming his way. I absolutely did say that Obama does. It's no secret. Where have you been? It's bad enough that even the liberal press, who supports him, complains about it because they aren't getting called on. Obama's own people have admitted that they vet all the questions prior to conferences, and there has been a first hand account from a reporter about how he was contacted and how it was discussed regarding what he was going to ask.

I'll start your homework assignment for you...
Obama, Like All Presidents, Tries To Manage The News - Boston News Story - WCVB Boston

The Liberal Lie, The Conservative Truth: OBAMA PRESS CONFERENCE UNIMPRESSIVE HAND PICKED SOFTBALLS Oh my God! A conservative link!

White House reporters take aim at format of Obama's health care town hall meeting - syracuse.com

The Press Revolts Against Obama » The Foundry Yeah yeah...Heritage.org. Whatever...

Scripps columnist: MSM eating out of Obama's hand | No Silence Here | knoxnews.com

I could go on and on...

I'm sure all past Presidents have tried to use the press to their advantage, but Obama seems to be the master. The problem, now, is that everybody knows it so his question and answer sessions are basically a joke. I'm sorry if you truly thought that all the questions he gets are legit.

What would I like to see? I'd like to see one of the hand picked reporters turn around and ask Obama a really hard hitting legitimate question on a serious topic of the day. You could be sure of a couple things...
He would be a hero in the press corps
He would never be allowed in another press conference (Gee...wouldn't that be obvious)

Sorry...not trying to hijack the thread. Let's get back on topic...

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TooFarTampa

Most of this is just untrue. While Obama DOES have a predetermined list of people he is going to call on in press conferences (and yes, that smacks of media control to some degree, and I don't think it is a good system), questions are NOT vetted and prescreened. Obama does NOT know exactly what questions he is going to get. I'm sure he guesses and prepares but he does not know.

I don't care how you feel about Obama or the press -- the press just does not work that way. If this is the way Obama tried to do it, there would be a massive and loud and unmissable revolt, 24/7. Because media loves to talk about the media. And prescreening questions (or offering questions to be prescreened) is flat out unethical. No president in this country has or have ever had this kind of control over media in press conferences. Just doesn't happen. Won't.

There was the Huffington Post Iran question. I'll link to Politico (very middle of the road) on it. The rest of the press did not like it because Nico Pitney was told in advance he would be called on. Someone in the administration knew Nico was soliciting questions from Iranians in hopes of asking Obama one in the press conference about Iran. Nico was doing important work. That was a good move, to single him out for a question. To tell him in advance - meh, maybe not so great. The question itself was not prescreened. Here's the story.

Obama calls on HuffPost for Iran question UPDATE - Michael Calderone - POLITICO.com

Town halls are a different matter. Bush's, I seem to recall, were also very tightly controlled. I am disappointed that Obama has not been as transparent as he promised. But the press conferences? Not scripted, other than the opening remarks. Will never ever, ever happen.

Carry on ...

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Proud to practice indoctrination
at least when it comes to the GATOR NATION

Johnrudy

My point exactly. The lives of police are in jeopardy every day they are on duty. Most are polite but don't have time to placate an adult having a temper tantrum. Good lord.

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scooterbug44

I would probably have gotten arrested in this situation too - but sadly I wouldn't have been IN that situation, because when someone sees me, they don't automatically see a criminal.

I can pretty much do whatever and go wherever I want - because I am a young white female w/ a smile - so noone thinks I am a threat or a danger to them. Security patrols just wave at me, people unlock doors for me, noone ever questions my right to be anywhere - me in sneakers and ratty jeans can go more places and be treated better than a black man in a suit and tie.

Does anyone doubt that the reason the neighbor called the cops is that the professor was black?

Does anyone doubt that the professor lost his temper because this was yet another in a long series of incidents where he was singled out or treated differently for being black?

Of course Obama said the officer acted stupidly - he did!

I have a great deal of respect for the law enforcement community, and I appreciate all that they do to keep us safe - but that doesn't mean that they never make mistakes or assumptions - especially based on race.

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

singinchicken

Nobody ever ever ever meets in the middle in the political forums so I don't really put stock into anything I read here. The folk on the left site only left slanted rags and the right only right slanted rags. The left discounts the right's sites and vice versa. All I'll say is there are pages and pages and pages of articles from all kinds of news agencies, both left and right, that say he does exactly that. I just started at the beginning and started copying.

All I have to the contrary is you saying that he doesn't with nothing to back it up so I guess all the sites that say he does must be wrong. Sorry...I will carry on. I will assimilate...

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Johnrudy

Some view it as racist, as did the professor obviously.
But I don't see it that way at all. I see it as a guy doing his job, no matter what color, plain and simple. He probably did over react, but better safe than sorry.

Sure makes you think twice about being in a position like this. Can't do your job w/o people thinking you're being racist.

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TooFarTampa

None of those links actually documents the prescreening of media questions in press conferences. I know you don't want to read up on journalism ethics (yes! there are some!) but what I just wrote is absolutely, 100 percent true. I am not a knee-jerk lefty. But I DO know four people who deal regularly with the Obama administration in a media capacity, and I am telling you -- that is not the way it works. In the words of the immortal Sarah Palin, "I know what I know what I know." Don't know health care or what it is like to be black in America or how hard it is to be a cop. This, however, is stuff that I know. And I believe it to be useful information, even if it doesn't fit neatly into a certain meme.

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Proud to practice indoctrination
at least when it comes to the GATOR NATION

scooterbug44

Have you seen the picture of him being arrested?

Well groomed older man w/ little round glasses, a white beard, a bright red collared short sleeve shirt, and grey tailored slacks.

What about him would make you think he wasn't who he said he was?

Do robbers in Cambridge typically wear business casual attire?

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

aleonard

I can honestly say I didn't see that coming.

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aleonard

I fear you

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singinchicken

Yesterday, I said I was Paul McCartney. Today, I said I was George Clooney. The core issue is that he was asked for ID, but would not produce it as he was asked. Then, things got weird...

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TooFarTampa

Actually, I misquoted her. Was going by memory. The quote is actually, "I know that I know that I know." Which ... seems to make less sense.

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Proud to practice indoctrination
at least when it comes to the GATOR NATION

scooterbug44

Did you have make-up/hair to make you look like them and were you opening the door at Sir Paul's or George's residences at the time?

The ID issue is a bit muddled - there's a bit of a prof said, cop said situation going on. The Professor claims he produced id, then the cop continued to question & harass him etc.

Aleo - you only say that you fear me because you know me - a stranger working on stereotypes and visual cues thinks I am non-threatening.

Anyone else think it odd that a former campus cop doesn't recognize a tenured faculty member of 18 years?

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

singinchicken

Followed immediately by "I know you are, but what am I?"

She sounds like she was channeling Pee Wee Herman!

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aleonard

I think if they all moved to Oakland, they would get along better

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Beach Runner

A quote from my post on the health care thread:
What I should have added is how would the police treat a black, Latino, or Asian person (regardless of apparent means or not) in the same situation as I was in if they treated me in the inhumane way in which they did?

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TooFarTampa

First of all, you are skeery.

Second of all, I agree with you on your last point. Henry Louis Gates Jr. isn't just any faculty member, he's nationally famous, at least in a wonky name-recognition sort of way.

But, I do think the whole thing was overblown, by all parties. I have some sympathy for the cop and for Gates, and honestly I think Obama was cranky and should have kept his lip zipped. But I do agree, and I KNOW there are parents out there who will admit this, that calling someone stupid is not the same as saying someone acted stupidly. Haven't y'all ever wanted to call someone a jerk and instead asked them to just stop acting like a jerk?

If she would be willing to don the Pee Wee clogs and do that silly dance on her last day as gov, I would donate to the Alaska Fund Trust!

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goodwitch58

I also find it strange that a policeman who teaches a course in racial profiling would let such a situation get that out of hand...he is, one would think,aware of the history of racial profiling, racial harassment, the studies that show how often this kind of thing happens, etc, etc. and if he is teaching other police officers how to behave/handle these kinds of situations, and he is the one with the power in the situation...and still lets it get to this point. A bit strange I'd say.

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

Bob

liberal lie, that's the high road

happy2Bme

Slowly, but surely, Obama is unraveling into the simple "politician" that he is.....and his approval rating is slowly, but surely, highlighting that fact. The "Messiah" is no more than a man.....

Bob

not knowing what actually happened, i would say the threshold for arresting an agitated black man is much lower than an agitated white man even in an upscale residence. based upon everything i've read, i can only think the professor was indignant about being deemed a suspect in his own home, and the cop had a limit to the amount of crap he was going to take that day. i understand the reaction from both sides. it's a no win situation.

Bob

great point

TooFarTampa

Gah! Anderson Cooper is going on and on and on about this! I mean I do love Anderson, he's pretty harmless and seemingly agenda-free, but he is such a slave to the news cycle and short attention span of TV viewers. I don't think I've heard the words "health care" yet. Did see a "tease" to an Erin Andrews story.

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happy2Bme

I agree with Bob....I'd be indignant in my own home as well, if I knew that I was without fault.....it is truly a no-win situation. That neither side will admit that maybe they over-reacted as well doesn't help, though.....gives fuel to the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton side, as well as to the side of the "white supremacists". I'm with Rodney King....can't we all just get along?

RDeMars

Had this been an Iranian officer beating a protester, President Obama would have taken at least six days to formulate a lukewarm response.

Lake View Too

Is it just me, or does it seem like events like this are somehow amplified by the media or "those behind the scenes" as a kind of smoke screen to divert attention off the major things that are happening like health care reform, the withdrawl from Iraq, and the escalation of the Afgan war. ??

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My mind tends to wander... but fortunately, it's so weak, it doesn't get very far...

LuciferSam

I'm talking about the policeman's initial response before the tantrum occurred (I read the arrest report). Also it is becoming increasingly clear that some on this board have a poor understanding of the fact that some people value their privacy over their safety. An officer at your door when you've done nothing wrong bossing you around. WTF?

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

Bob

we've already got a war sandwich with an iran filling. that country has a theocratic dictatorship that was a response to us backing the shah. iran's current internal strife is a net gain for the us/nato. what do you want, more saber rattling? do you want posturing and threatening statements?

Beach Runner

I am a white professor who was brutally treated by police officers for a minor traffic incident (running a red light). I fought the charge in court and proved using the laws of physics that based on the timing of that traffic light and the fact that I wasn't charged with going over the speed limit, the only way I could have stopped when the light turned yellow was to have stomped on my brakes in the middle of the intersection, risking being hit by another vehicle. The charge of running a red light was dismissed.

I had an anxiety attack due to the rough treatment by the police. They injured my neck because they tried to restrain me due to my anxiety attack (BTW that's the worse thing you could do to someone having an anxiety attack). I tried to get the ACLU to take my case against the police department, but they said that they had too many cases.

My neighbor is a white physician who was also treated inappropriately by police officers for a minor traffic incident (going slightly over the speed limit). He treated me for my neck injury and wasn't surprised by the police brutality.

To this day I have trouble changing lanes on Atlanta freeways because I don't have a full range of motion in my neck.

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full time

Got pulled over by police in New Orleans who ran at me with hands on guns and told me to put my hands on the hood of my car. Kept my mouth shut and did what I was told until police realized I was not the guy robbing neighborhood Walgreens for Vicodin. At the time, I was seriously concerned that I was going to be shot dead in the street by the police in broad daylight one block from my house. Here's a tip for the good Harvard professor - when the police think you might have committed a crime, don't cause an escalation by being belligerent.

Mermaid

I dunno about that, LakeView. There's no media here to egg anyone on, and yet some posters have gone beserk on this thread as if it were actually something really interesting. Like health care reform, the withdrawal from Iraq, etc.

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I was outed twice now in my life--the first time by my sister in high school...the second time was right here on Sowal--by of all things, a dumbass mermaid--eh, go figure. ~a drama queen

Lynnie

I'm not really sure how to do this: ^5!

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

happy2Bme

the World lives under a microscope these days......whether specific amplifications of events is to divert attention from "the major things" (whatever they might be) is subjective; that we are bombarded with fact, fiction, speculation, personal thought, and inuindo is a reality, a pain in the $#^, and irrefutable.

Geo

I do have doubts (or better said- *uncertainty*) that the reason the cops were called is because Gates is black. This is likely what Gates assumed and would explain why he seems to have had a chip on his shoulder when he was asked for his id and questioned by police. Scoots, what if the person who called police was black and they only saw from a distance and from behind two males forcing their way into a home. Possible, if not likely, that race played no role in a neighborly call to police.

I agree with you that Professor Gates viewed this as yet another singling out based on his color. This seems pretty evident in his reported behavior.

IMHO, there is irony here in that Gates, a Professor in African American Studies, is crying racism and foul treatment as a result of being treated like anyone else in his unfortunate situation irrespective of skin color.

In other words, let's say the cops answered a call about a break in at Gates house only in this scenario he was white. So they get there and he refuses to come outside and produce ID when asked and he acts like an A-hole. Well, at some point it is very feasible that the cops are going to get fed up and trump up some sort of a disturbance charge. Is it lame? Yes. But is it racial? No. Only if the guy is black.

One last thought- I agree with you that you can everywhere/do whatever you want/not be perceived as dangerous because you are a young white female with a smile. But omit your race and the parts left (young female with a smile) still qualify you for "not dangerous" status in most people's eyes. It's as much (if not more) about age, attitude, gender than it is about race.

Gates's attitude is what got him hauled off. Not his age, gender or race. Cops don't like the "you don't know who you are messing with" mantra. It is like saying- "I triple dog dare you to put cuffs on me".

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LuciferSam

There is no legal requirement in this country to even possess ID let alone produce it.

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

LuciferSam

She's definitely a jerk-off.

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Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one, and they're shallow and fuzzy.

happy2Bme

The last paragraph says it all.....no cop (or anyone else for that matter) likes to be put between a rock and a hard place, questioning his/her "authority".