Since it appears to be moving along, I wanted to start a new thread. With both House and Senate bills totaling over $800 billion the next step is underway- conferencing. I thought some might be interested in who will be the teams for the conferencing process. It should be interesting to watch due to some major discrepancies in the two like-priced but different priority bills. The one question for me is whether the House will fight (negotiate) for something that loses the three Senate Republican votes it took to pass it. Or, if they can hold the shaky alliance together. Here are you're sausage making teams:

On the Senate Side, you have (3 D, 2 R): Sens. Inouye (D-HI), Baucus (D-MT), Reid (D-NV), Cochran (R-MS), and Grassley (R-IA).

On the House side, you have (3 D, 2 R): Reps. Obey (D-WI), Rangel (D-NY), Waxman (D-CA), Lewis (R-CA), and Camp (R-MI).

These negotiating teams are some of the highest ranking members on the major committees either majority or minority. One item I find note is that the ranking members (party leaders) are typically referred to as Cardinals. There goes that seperation of Church and State thing...

Anybody want to handicap this negotiation? Will it meet Arlen Spector's (R-Senator who supports the bill) requirements...

"My support for the Conference Report on the stimulus package will require that the Senate compromise bill come back virtually intact including, but not limited to, overall spending, the current ratio of tax cuts to spending, and the $110 billion in cuts."

Let's hope like hell that it doesn't come back virtually intact. This is ridiculous. After the election, I actually started warming up to Obama. He could of started producing some of the change he promised by taking the lead on this "stimulus" package and producing something that might actually stimulate the economy. Instead, he lets Reid and Pelosi basically package everything that they've wanted to do over the last 10 years and couldn't get done and call it a stimulus package. I hope to God this fails and then I would like to see Obama take charge and see what he's made of. I think he could actually get some support from Republicans if he were driving the train rather than the other two bozo's.

I, too, am disappointed in the "spendulus." The pro-Democrat Atlanta Journal-Constitution says Stimulus bill just pork in new disguise | ajc.com

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I spent more time researching my last vehicle purchased, than Congress will spend debating this Bill which is so enormous and complex, that they won't even read, nor understand! ...and FL Gov Charlie Crist can kiss my @ss. (he supports it)

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Most of the items that article listed as "pork" I disagree with.

I can see a direct link between the stated goal of improving our country's infrastructure and creating construction jobs, improving health care, and stimulating the economy w/ most of them. It's money we are spending now to save $ in the future.

For example, we're already spending billions to bail out automakers, so $650 million to buy cars that are more fuel efficient (and gas prices are expected to rise again) means long term savings and money going through the faltering auto industry and into our economy.

People rail against STD prevention and anti-smoking being included, but treating the results of those are a massive cost to our government health care system.

Two that I do TOTALLY think of as dumbarse pork - honeybee insurance and the stupid analog TV conversion thing. Convert the tvs already, if they don't work you either buy a $50 converter, get cable, or a new TV. If you don't want to do this, that is your choice. Don't understand the bee thing.

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The enemy is ignorance.

Bank CEO's are being questioned now. Where did the money go and why wasn't credit made available - finally - let's hold them accountable.

We don't want them to fail, but they have to open their books........

And, this will hold up Obama and his plan. It's much better to engage in the due diligence than to have some of the recipients knocking on our doors in 8-12 mos. needing more.

I think to receive any of this cash infusion, you must show your books and show financial responsibility with a plan! Just as you and I would have to do making application for a loan.

The Bush TARP failed and we can learn from it now as opposed to letting politicians scratch they heads wondering why it didn't work under the better administration.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

Sen Charles Schumer said that people don't care about the pork, which supposedly equates to over $300 Billion.

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I'm wondering what Sen. Mel Martinez means when he refers to the possibility of needing a "second stimulus bill," in his recent reply to me for a letter which I sent him. Our future great-grandchildren haven't seen anything yet!

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Hey SJ - I think I still have Mel's letter to me, which was obviously a canned form letter at best.

When I find it, I will place here - with my response begging for my own Congressional Hearings so I can beg for money.

I am disappointed in all them right now..........

But, dang proud to be an American!! Because I know we'll work through this. Will be tough, but we'll make it!!

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

I think we should all send IOUs to the IRS this year, in place of checks. Heck, if California can send IOUs to the people, we should be able to send them to the gov't.

Seems to me that the Fed Gov't is just using fear to increase the size of gov't, and the monkeys on our grand-children's backs.

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I am REALLY hoping that the new push for transparency and accountability will help reduce spending, waste, and pork overall, but think it's going to take a while to teach old washington new tricks.

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The enemy is ignorance.

lol. now that is funny, scooterbug! transparency in spending. I have yet to hear anyone explain where the first $350 billion went, and how it did anything to stimulate the economy. From what I can tell, it and the 2008 Economic Stimulus Act, did absolutely nothing except to increase the debt of this Country, and pad the bankers pocketbooks.

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I don't know where it went either - that's why I am looking forward to being able to go to the website and SEE where this $ is going.

I am sure I will disagree with some of its direction, but at least it will be there a modicum of a reference point and politicos will have to justify it come election time.

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The enemy is ignorance.

You will never see full disclosure as long as we have gov't.

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[quote=Smiling JOe;531225] From what I can tell, it and the 2008 Economic Stimulus Act, did absolutely nothing [quote]

It did allow me to make the mortgage payment on my beach house that month

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I'm shovel-ready and too big to fail

That is exactly what I noted in my recent letters to my Senators. The banks were the only ones who benefitted from the 2008 Economic Stimulus Act, and the first $350 billion of this 2009 Act. That doesn't exactly stimulate the economy.

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What was their reply? Just curious...

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I'm shovel-ready and too big to fail

You can see how your Congressional delegation voted at the linked website.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-5140

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Democrats couldn't care less if people in Indiana hate them. But if Europeans curl their lips, liberals can't look at themselves in the mirror.
-Ann Coulter

This just in -- "spendulus" bill dropped from $838 to $789 billion. Last week someone on CNN was trying to demonstrate just how big a number $838 billion is. He said that if a million dollars a day were used to pay off a debt of that amount, it would take almost 2296 years to do so.

Now at $789 billion, it's just a mere 2162 years.

Here's another ludicrous thing regarding numbers. Obama says that he will cap the income of CEOs of corporations who receive money from the U.S. government at $500,000. Doesn't he know that many other executives at these companies make much more than that? On CNN someone in the Obama camp was asked why they picked the number $500,000. He shrugged his shoulders and said that he thought it was because that's more than the president, the chief justice, or any other government employee makes.

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You can come and live in Alabammer with me. Our Governor does not support it.

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I know I don't get there often enough, but God knows I surely try, It's a magic kind of medicine that no doctor could prescribe!

This is the kind of bullshiat that reminds people every few years to think, "Oh yeah, that's why they couldn't hold control..."

Republicans have caught the Democrats in a midnight “stimulus” power play that seeks to cut Republican conferees out of the House-Senate negotiations

Republicans Shut Out of Stimulus Conference Negotiations - HUMAN EVENTS

Transparent? cough**bullshiat**cough
Bipartisan? Pure unmitigated BS...

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I am curious as to how the Obamanistias feel about this.

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Democrats couldn't care less if people in Indiana hate them. But if Europeans curl their lips, liberals can't look at themselves in the mirror.
-Ann Coulter

Um, I think I missed the hysteria inducer in the article.

Why wouldn't the staffers of the House leader and Senate leader get together to prepare the report?

They've all been debating it at length, it consists of combining 2 bills that have already passed, it still has to be voted on and they made it a condition that it has to be publicly posted for 48 hours before the vote ....................... so how are the Repubs being shut out?

If they put stuff in that isn't as agreed upon, they won't get the votes.

P.S. The article is posted on a site that touts itself as "the headquarters of the conservative underground" and wants me to click a link and join the NRA

Here's a link to an AP article on MSNBC that seems much more believable - after meetings yesterday they drew up a bill and are continuing to have meetings and negotiate the terms today as they can't pass it w/o the support of people from BOTH parties.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29136678/

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The enemy is ignorance.

Uhhh...they are not allowing Republican input into the final version that will be voted on...hello?

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How are they not allowing their input?

They're spending another day going back in forth in meetings negotiating the terms w/ them......................and continuing to revise what they had staffers type up last night to get the FINAL version that they will ALL vote on!

That's like saying a boss has no input on the letter the secretary typed up according to his/her directions and that he/she will review again before signing.

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The enemy is ignorance.

I like all the meetings they're having~~~~~~~~~~~


CEO of co. I used to work for made over $14MM. Yep, $14,000,000 and the Presidents, VP's made between $750K and $2MM. I am all about capitalism and making money.

We had people in mail room and clerical staff, some entry level positions who could barely pay their bills.

I thought how cool would it be if my CEO cut his salary only by $3MM (leaving himself $11MM) and put that money right back into human capital within the co. Wall Street would love it and stock would soar, not to mention the fabulous kharma and improved work ethic among everyone in the co. And, I'm not a socialist, but when it's glaring at you, I think something should be done.

CEO of course didn't do that, never would consider it, actually and we still soared in popularity with Wall St.


And, it's easy to pay the $1TR debt - every person in America pays approx $3K....that's all, $3K.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

Signed - $789B. Does anyone know what it looks like?

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

Except for those who are below the taxable income line, those who are unemployed, children, etc...

That 3000 bucks starts creeping up right out of the gate.

Then, take that great tax code into account and the Dems outright hatred of the evil rich. Bottom line is that you and I will probably not be affected, but the upper 5% of the taxpaying populous are going to get hammered silly and will stop spending their money or investing it into anything for the time being. Before any of this was voted on NYC was already talking about how many millions and millions they were going to lose in income tax revenue if top exec pay gets capped. Look at what's already happening in California.

Why do so many people have so much trouble seeing the big picture. Somebody needs to archive all these threads and pull them back out in 4-8 years to see where we ultimately wind up...

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Sen Matinez replied in a letter from my first letter, and stated that we need to do something, and that he fully supported the first Stimulus Act. He says we can't do nothing, though he thinks the current bill is about $30 Billion too fat. (like that is real money when we are talking about over a trillion $$$ in payback.)

Sen Nelson has failed to reply to my letters.

I wrote more letters today, asking for their opinion of how the stimulus package would actually stimulate the economy enough to pull America out of the slump, without breaking the backs of the future of this company. No reply yet.

Funny to me that gov't is so dang slow about everything, and that is how it was set up to operate -- lengthy, detailed discussion, so that no one makes jerk-reaction law. Only now, when they want to throw money to their friends, they push rapidly to have no discussion. Seriously, I spend more thought on less important personal matters than they will spend pretending to debate this bill.

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Straight from Obama's website, change.gov...

End the Practice of Writing Legislation Behind Closed Doors: As president, Barack Obama will restore the American people's trust in their government by making government more open and transparent. Obama will work to reform congressional rules to require all legislative sessions, including committee mark-ups and conference committees, to be conducted in public. By making these practices public, the American people will be able to hold their leaders accountable for wasteful spending and lawmakers won't be able to slip favors for lobbyists into bills at the last minute.

Oops...I guess he forgot this little promise as well as forgetting to tell Reid and Pelosi.

Or does it count at all any more since this is from the President Elect Obama's website and not the website of the President.

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You have to compute according to households. Minor children and the poor would have a tough time coughing up $3k. We have a little more than 100 million households in America. That equates to ~ $10K per household.

Our national debt is already over $14 trillion (with a T) so now we will have total debt of $15 trillion. That equates to $143k per household.

Feel better?

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Democrats couldn't care less if people in Indiana hate them. But if Europeans curl their lips, liberals can't look at themselves in the mirror.
-Ann Coulter

"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to the bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to Communism. " Karl Marx, 1867

I haven't found anything that proves they AREN'T doing this (beside the wack-a-doo site you listed). All I am hearing from other sources are what compromises and changes are being batted around w/ quotes from Repubs and Dems alike.

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The enemy is ignorance.

I wondered about her math to get $3k since my share of the Iraq War is currently $1,700.

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The enemy is ignorance.

Yeah, yeah, I know.....and, everybody loves a wisea$$, too. I meant just for this proposed bill and yes I know 2/3 are childrens.

Let's try this one then: tax non-Americans who stay here more than 60 days/year.....I feel certain we can raise a great deal of $$ this way - both those who enter legally and those who do not.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

I'm with you 100% on the Gov.

Did Crist support it because there was pork for FL? I just have no idea what is in this bill~~~~~~

Anyone know/have a clear picture on this?????

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

Unfortunately, in order to pay off our debt, we first have to stop the bleeding and nobody has the appetite to do so. In fact, we are spending more money we don't have. And btw, paying off $143k per household is just the principal. Fold in interest carrying expenses and it is an interesting number.

Okay, here is the really depressing part: this is nothing compared to unfunded liabilities handed to us by the Congress. This primarily reflects social entitlement programs. I have seen the figure of over $50 billion over the next X years.

There is no fix to this mess. Our kids and grandkids will inherit it. I hope that they will understand what a revolution is all about and take this country back from the idiots in Washington.

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Democrats couldn't care less if people in Indiana hate them. But if Europeans curl their lips, liberals can't look at themselves in the mirror.
-Ann Coulter

They're not doing anything to improve health care, they're just trying to control it. If that's what the people(idiots) want then fine, but it should be debated on its own merits. This is total bs and has not a thing to do with stimulus.

Here is a link to a very simple explanation of Bretton Woods II, an informal arrangement whereby pegged exchange rates have led us to the pickle we are in. Don't know what to do to fix it though, but after reading this I have a much better understanding of how this situation of being the nation's consumer is by design, and not just OUR design.


Debt Man Walking

I think he supported it because state revenue is so low ... which I get, but he doesn't have to look so darned happy about it.

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Proud to practice indoctrination
at least when it comes to the GATOR NATION

At a glance that sounds a little off. You forgot to calculate the growing interest on that money, and you since gov't isn't good at eliminating gov't programs, once any new programs coming from this spending are started, they will be around forever, costing more money.

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A few thoughts from inside the beltway.

One, this bill was primarily negotiated by House Dems, Senate Dems and Senate Repubs last night. House Repubs are irrelevant.

Two, the Sentate staff is already working on a second stimulus package.

Three, the overall discretionary spending will top 3 trillion this year via the 09 approps, 10 approps, stimulus 1, Tarp 1, and stimulus 2/tarp 2. The Iraq comparison will become irrelevant. Then again, when do two wrongs make a right?

Four, Pelosi is not happy with education funding (it's too low for her tastes)

Five, the ratio of tax cuts to spending is currently 35% to 65%. Same as the senate compromise.

Six, no one involved in the Senate appropriation committee actually belives this will be the last injection. See pt two.

Seven, SJ is not going to get a well thought response on whether it will work.

Eight, this bill is loaded down with programmatic pork, but not many direct earmarks. You say tomatoe, we say tomatoh.

Nine, the votes in both houses may be identical as long as Pelosi doesn't try to change much. See pt 4.

And finally, this bill has been overpromised and will underperform (per Senate approps staffer).

What are you going to do with your extra 13 bucks?

Meltdown 101: Highlights of economic stimulus plan

I'm going to McDonalds! No...make that Steak and Shake.

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If we decide to pay our the debt over a ten year period at 6% interest, annual payments would exceed $2 trillion. With 105 million households, that equals $19,400 per household per year for ten years.

And these numbers presume that the deficit and all unfunded liabilties have been erased. Not likely.

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Democrats couldn't care less if people in Indiana hate them. But if Europeans curl their lips, liberals can't look at themselves in the mirror.
-Ann Coulter

To All My Valued Employees,
>
> There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of
> this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the
> economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges.
> However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to
> your job. What does threaten your job however, is the changing
> political landscape in this country.
>
> However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help
> you decide what is in your best interests.
> First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against
> employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there
> is a back story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed
> by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Mercedes outside.
> You've seen my big home at last year's Christmas party. I'm sure; all
> these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about
> my life.
>
> However, what you don't see is the back story.
>
> I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 300
> square foot studio apartment for 3 years. My entire living apartment
> was converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into
> building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.
>
> My diet consisted of Ramen Pride noodles because every dollar I spent
> went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a
> defective transmission. I didn't have time to date. Often times, I
> stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and
> partying. In fact, I was married to my business -- hard work,
> discipline, and sacrifice.
>
> Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a
> modest $50K a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy
> cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes.
> Instead of hitting the Nordstrom's for the latest hot fashion item, I
> was trolling through the Goodwill store extracting any clothing item
> that didn't look like it was birthed in the 70's. My friends
> refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did
> not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a
> vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford these
> luxuries my friends supposedly had.
>
> So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check
> in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off"
> button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a
> weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I
> eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no
> rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this
> business is attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child.
> You, of course, only see the fruits of that garden -- the nice house,
> the Mercedes, the vacations... You never realize the back story and
> the sacrifices I've made.
>
> Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all the
> right decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the people
> who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel
> entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of
> my life for.
>
> Yes, business ownership has is benefits but the price I've paid is
> steep and not without wounds.
>
> Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you,
> is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me
> tell you why:
>
> I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay
> enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and
> use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation taxes. Unemployment
> taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire a tax man to manage all these
> taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him.
> Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes
> with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a check to
> the US Treasury for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my
> "stimulus" check was? Zero. Nada. Zilch.
>
> The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the
> guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over
> 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single
> mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her
> next welfare check? Obviously, government feels the latter is the
> economic stimulus of this country.
>
> The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your paycheck you'd
> quit and you wouldn't work here.. I mean, why should you? That's nuts.
> Who wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree
> which is why your job is in jeopardy.
>
> Here is what many of you don't understand ... to stimulate the economy
> you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had suddenly government
> mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of
> depositing that $288,000 into the Washington black-hole, I would have
> spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic
> growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in
> the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.
>
> When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't
> defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to
> life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the
> heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must
> stimulate it, not kill it. Suddenly, the power brokers in Washington
> believe the poor of America are the essential drivers of the American
> economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is
> the type of change you can keep.
>
> So where am I going with all this?
> It's quite simple.
>
> If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be
> swift and simple. I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can then
> plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your SUV, and your
> child's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem anymore.
>
> Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and
> retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalizes the
> productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to
> provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.
>
> If you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it will
> be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this
> country, steamrolled the constitution, and will have changed its
> landscape forever. If that happens, you can find me sitting on a
> beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about....
>
> Signed,
>
> Your boss

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

Some here have committed that they would hold the chosen one to the same standards as previous mortals, so here's another test. Amazingly, in a few weeks there have been many, including the parade of retread tax cheats.

Obamagod claimed that there was no pork in this ridiculous spending bill. Stimulus? Hardly.

You can go ahead and eat crow now, or wait until you are force fed pork, but either way, I don't think you can digest everything that's coming your way.

JohnR? Any thoughts?

From comments I heard today on CNN (a.k.a. former Obama worshippers) , there are many who say that if Obama sits back and lets Congress pass this horrible stimulus plan, his credibility as president is over. A four-year term.

How can we stop this bill from passing? I mean, I spend more time deciding on a nail polish color than has been spent on this.

Kitty, you are right. Many more jobs will be lost. This is why I have always voted Republican. The Democrats' tax and spend is proverbial. I realize that the Bush administration didn't fix things and messed up majorly by engaging us in a war that seemed right at the time, but later turned out to be based on flawed information. That's history. But FTLOG the Democrats are about to ice the cake and really mess us up with this hastily-put-together proposal.

I never dreamed that the stimulus attempt would be weighted down with pork. Somehow I had HOPE that Obama had more integrity than to let this happen. Maybe he is just not experienced enough to deal with the Washington crowd, and they are railroading him into what someone said is potentially the worst bill ever passed by the US Congress.

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This is my third attempt to post this, so I have abbreviated my earlier attempts.

I was truly disheartened by the name calling that President Bush endured, and rather than avoid being on that level, I took the opportunity to be a demigouge (or worse) in my last post.

I am not happy with the events of the past few weeks, but then again, what President has ever had to face a more eventful first few weeks. Rather than respond with cogent thoughts, I resorted to petty sniping, which is pretty unproductive.

Again, my earlier attempts were more detailed, but I'll just apologize for adding to the lack of civil discource.

Miss Kitty, it's an interesting email, but since I love my boss and know what sacrifices he makes on my and my coworkers behalf, I just can't lay all the blame for the current situation on the politicians and the tax rates. The boss you describe in that email wouldn't have made it through the initial job interview with me because he's a douchebag I wouldn't want to work for, (quibble about that word all you want, I don't have another appropriate word that will make it past the filters).

My boss isn't going to leave the country w/ his business if he doesn't get tax cuts (he's an American FTLOG), he isn't driving a Mercedes, taking lavish vacations, or living in a a McMansion .............. he's me in 10 years w/ a family to support, a modest middle class home, a business to run, clients who aren't paying bills, and is frustrated as sheet that even though he's holding up his part of the bargain by paying his bills, paying his mortgages, being fiscally conservative, arriving at work before me and finishing his work after me, the banks who don't want to loan him money because of their other dumbarse loans to people who couldn't afford them, the stock market and his assets have tanked, and the hard working American is getting screwed like you wouldn't believe........unless you're actually one of them.

He's not going to hang his employees out to dry, he's foregoing his paycheck to make sure MY payroll checks don't bounce, he's negotiating to get me a better health care plan so that I save money, and giving me benefits even though my hours have been slashed so I technically don't qualify for them - that's the reality of the REAL American business that is built on hard work, people, careers, and honesty - not the 'short term money as the only qualifier' sheet they're talking about in out of context quotations, the big box store crap, the idiocy that seems to be taught in MBA programs, and what is unfortunately being held up as an example in these discussions.

Across the country, MY people are paying their taxes, their mortgages, and worrying about their bills, their children, and their future. We don't have large houses, new cars, expensive jewelry, or designer clothes. We pay for things with a check, pay off our mortgages early, and don't buy it if we can't pay for it. My first job (those years of babysitting don't count) was agricultural labor that involved a machete because I was too young (according to the government) for other jobs . Mama Scooterbug gets getting yelled at by me because she works a post-retirement job (after retiring from her regular job after 25 years and actually raising 2 kids), but doesn't go to the restroom all day or eat because she has customers she doesn't want to keep waiting. Papa Scooterbug worked for the same company his father started with and retired after more than 35 years with them. I (used to) have a full time job and then ran my own company in my spare time. We have jobs before we're old enough to technically work, jobs, 2nd jobs, post-retirement jobs, and get grief for our crazy ideas about what is right and wrong - but if the rest of the country was as crazy or hardworking as us, this crisis wouldn't exist.

We'll pay our tax bills like we always have, we'll plan for our own retirement and futures like we always have, we'll be the foundations of our community like we always have, and we'll be the ones that continue to pay for the people making profits at everyone's expense and working the system.

That's our reality.

You want to point fingers, you want to exaggerate partisan bickering, and you want to continuously divide us, but we're still Americans who need a solution, and we are getting screwed because people can't see the forest for the trees, and they've got a voice, but nothing good to say.

There's a possible solution on the table - we're not saying it IS THE solution, we're saying it's A solution, and that if it puts us and our neighbors back to work and keeps our country moving it's okay with us. We don't like it all, we know someone who wrote a check for a campaign is getting rewarded, we know our kids and grandkids will pay for it when we're done paying for it, and we wish none of it was necessary, but we know that common sense, reality, and what we want have always taken very different paths - it was part of the coursework at the 'school of hard knocks' we all attended.

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The enemy is ignorance.

It also presumes that no additional money will be pumped in after this Stimulus Act is passed, to keep those programs going, but we all know that isn't likely.

Thanks for breaking it down a bit. I think that would be much lower than reality.

Beach Runner, keep in mind that George W Bush greased the wheels back in Feb 2008 with that first stimulus act, then he pushed through the $350 Billion, and led the way for Obama to slide on through without any problems, though there is much outrage from many people. Republican or Democrat, it doesn't matter because they are politicians and the only visible difference to me is who's friends get the money which gov't throws away.

I like to break this spending down to some basics. Think about how this spending policy would work on an individual level. You already have $15,000 in credit card debt, you have a note on your house and your car, and your employer just announced that it would have to lay you off. Someone approaches you and offers you some money, but with big ties and interest needed to be repaid. However, part of the deal is that you cannot default on repayment -- just not an option, and you cannot declare bankruptcy. Do you take that money, having to work the rest of your life to pay it off, and then pass on any remaining debt to your children and grandchildren?

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Abe Lincoln, second term.

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Kitty, your post reminds me of Atlas Shrugged.

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Yeah, it is a doozy. Maybe it would have been better to post it in the Lounge, as it could be fiction for all I know.

scootyb...there are a thousand stories in the naked city. This email I posted was one of them and yours is another. I, too, was shocked at the whole I am leaving the country with mine and y'all can flounder. Very very unAmerican. Reminds me of people that say they will leave the country if a certain politician wins a election. I think what I focused on in that email was his frustration with his fellow citizens thinking the gravy train would last forever and their unending spending to capture the "American Dream". This whole mess has taught me once again that you can do the right thing and plan ahead and at the end, things are not always in your control. Sorry if you felt I was stirring a pot or agreeing with everything in that post. Don't kill the messenger. As Mr. K said last night... "our kids are screwed".

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

Darn, someone noticed that I omitted that.

Kitty, Mr. K. is right about the effect on our kids.

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You are right, packing up the bank roll and fleeing the Country is very un-American. The American way would be to revolt against the Gov't, but I cannot encourage that because to do so, I would be labeled a terrorist. Only in America.

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Are you serious? We're all screwed.

Sen Martinez mentioned that in his letter to me, too. I'd bet you can expect to see at least three stimulus acts, before people get pissed enough to say STOP IT!

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beachsi02, do you have handy, the contact numbers/email addresses for the Chief of Staffs of Sen Mel Martinez and Sen Bill Nelson? Maybe we need to start pounding on them, since they give most of the advice to the Senators.

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And, he slept with a Man Type for four years......I neverf knew this, did Y'all?

Guess, those parochial schools just didn't want to mention this one. LOL

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

One of the things I am huge proponent of is to write a letter to your Congressman/woman, whatever.

That is how your voice is heard. Everybody has great ideas, but the question was posed, "How do we stop Congress from passing this?" Make them hear you.......

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

Reportedly, so did Bill Clinton, though some say they had separate bedrooms.
*******************

"The Senate bill spends more than the House bill. This very large level of spending cannot be sustained. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner has already forecasted an additional two trillion dollars in spending; therefore it's incumbent upon us to get it right. This bill simply does not give us what we need - a focused bill with targeted tax cuts and spending that would be timely and stimulative." -- Sen Mel Martinez (FL) from his most recent "news release."

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I agree but I wrote both my senators to express my non-support of and concern for the TARP bill. They wrote back with a bunch of garbage about how they support free enterprise but feel compelled to vote for the bill because we had to do something. Polls at the time showed that a majority of voters did not want TARP. They don't care. They nestle together inside the beltway and become like a colony of ants, working independently of their constituents
and preserving their nest. Our system is broken.

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Democrats couldn't care less if people in Indiana hate them. But if Europeans curl their lips, liberals can't look at themselves in the mirror.
-Ann Coulter

Well, I agree with Scootyb...I would not work for this person and I feel sorry for people who must...and if he/she wants to leave, then maybe sooner rather than later, would be a good thing!!

It may be fiction or someone's attempt at something(I am not sure what) and perhaps I am taking it too seriously, but I can't help but wonder: what if this person had been the Captain of US Airways 1549?

Based on the words/ideas in the email, he would have blamed the First Officer for flying into the birds, then ditched the plane, and scrambled into the first life raft, leaving his crew and the passengers to fend for themselves. ..it was no longer his problem.

Unlike Captain Scully, who immediately assumed responsibility for the aircraft; worked with his First Officer, and in less than three minutes had determined the best solution to his problem--the one that had the best chance of saving the lives for whom he was responsible. And, then after giving the evacuation order to the cabin crew, he stayed behind and walked through a plane quickly filling with water--twice--to be sure he was leaving no one behind.

Afterwards, when he has had praise heaped upon him by everyone on the planet, he has maintained a quiet, humble attitude and has been quick to credit his crew, the passengers, and the NYC first responders and ferry captains...

He has demonstrated what I think is the best of humanity: compassion, confidence and competence. He used every bit of experience, skills, and compassion he possessed to solve the problem he was confronted with.

Compare his behavior with the bankers and financial brokers from Wall Street, who behave as though this financial mess has nothing to do with them, while they take their private jets to their Las Vegas junkets and give bonuses for failing to maintain their business in a solvent way; the members of Congress who chose to be obstructionists, rather than participants in solving the greatest problem this country has faced since the days of the Great Depression. and the talk show hosts and pundits who chose to spend every waking moment adding to the polarization of our society.

We don't need terrorists to destroy our society as long as we have people with the arrogrant, selfish attitude demonstrated in the email. As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy..."

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

Keep writing, they'll hear you! Last year, I wrote letters to Sen., Congress and the White House.......

Keep writing! The only other option is hire a lobbyist!

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

[quote=Smiling JOe;531671]Reportedly, so did Bill Clinton, though some say they had separate bedrooms.
*******************



Tsk, tsk............ LOL

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

There's a possible solution and it only costs $800 billion or so. WTF, let's try it, its something.

Obama promised that pending legistlation would be posted for 48 hours for the public to review and comment. Gee...guess what they didn't do? Yeah, I don't even have to answer that one.

To make matters worse the bill is 1,071 pages long, and even Democrats are saying that there's no way to read what's in it before Pelosi tries to call for the vote. Repulicans were not even given access to it at first because they were told that they voted against it the first time so there was no reason to think that they wouldn't vote against it again. How can somebody vote for or against something in good faith if they have not even read it?



The only saving grace is that I don't have any kids who will burdened with paying off this steaming crap pile.

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That isn't Obama going back on a campaign promise - the House specifically voted to have the bill public for 48 hours before voting!

Pelosi needs a severe reality check (and maybe a smack upside the head).

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The enemy is ignorance.

That could mean more than one thing. Ann Coulter is a "man type".

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FOX NEWS-WE ALTER REALITY, YOU GET SOLD A PRECONCEIVED NARRATIVE

UPDATE: The Democrats finally made the bill's language available around 11 p.m. Thursday, approximately 10 hours before members meet Friday to consider the bill and 38 hours short of the time promised Americans to review the bill.

I don't know who can read 1000 pages in that amount of time. Additionally, the copy that was posted had the search function restricted so the readers couldn't try to look for specifics. Sad...just sad.

You and I are in agreement on Pelosi. She and Reid are going to do the Dems more harm than good, IMHO.

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I know people on the Hill, and I can assure you that most members of Congress (both Houses), don't read most of the bills upon which they vote. They are given a summary of the bills, and what it "supposedly" means, and it is typically this summary upon which the members votes are based. Shocking, I know, but that's what they do. I'm still wondering who actually writes the bills and who writes the summaries. Lord knows that the actual members of Congress aren't doing it. Are the staffers writing the bills? Lobbyists? I have no idea.

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Pork-u-lus has just passed the House, all reps voted against, plus 7 dems.

The ones who write the appropriations bills and summary's are primarily the staffers for the appropriations committees of the House and Senate, not staffers that work for members. For the Senate, I believe there are at least 23 staffers who work for the appropriations committee. The way it breaks down is in most cases two staffers per appropriation bill but I know of one case where there is only one staffer working on one of the bills (there are 12 annual appropriation bills). Then there is administrative support (clerks) who assist the staffers. I am not sure on the House side.

She is scareeeeee.

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

This is what I don't get -- the new tax credit that will cost approximately $115 billion for a $400 per-worker, $800 per-couple tax credits in 2009 and 2010.

$400 a year? That's less than $8 a week. How can that possibly stimulate the economy? Even on The Today Show, Meredith was grilling a Democrat (I forgot his name) about how this would help.

Oh, well. Too late to biotch about it. It's done. As the front page of this week's Newsweek says, "WE ARE ALL SOCIALISTS NOW."

At least my friend's husband who is a Democrat from Louisiana voted against it. Thank you.

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Yet another email to cross my box. Scootyb...don't stress out on me. All I know is that language makes me and I am married to an attorney that probably learned to write just like that in school to cover every possible issue. I continue to have faith that something in this bill will get some people back to work and help the economy. I don't know any other way to mentally get through all this mess.

Subject: The "ramming" of America

THIS IS A COMPLETE OUTRAGE!
I don't care who you voted for in the presidential election, this should make EVERY CITIZEN angry! Below is just one little part of the so called "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 that is being RAMMED down out throats. I've included it so your can see how difficult it would be to read through the entire bill in a very short time period. Even if you falsely believe that this is more than just a special interest and "pork" bill, why would you let Congress get away with allowing the public and their own representative less than 24 hour to read through this before they take a vote on it. It is over a thousand pages long with many changes to it. Information in it (as show below) has to be referenced and read through carefully if the right decisions are to be made. (Any one care to explain to me how the section below has ANYTHING to do with Recover and Reinvestment???) This is the largest spending bill in our nations history and they want to have a vote on it today 3/13/09 (less than 24 hours) after releasing it to the public (which goes directly against a campaign promise of Obama who said that all legislation would be given at least a 5 day review for the public before any vote). WAKE UP PEOPLE - THIS IS A COMPLETE ASSAULT ON OUR AMERICAN SYSTEM! Call you law maker today and tell them to wait until they have at least read it first. Anyone in business will tell you, never sign anything until you've read through it, why should this be any different.


PS. And if it is true that they want to vote on this just because the weekend is here or because Nancy Pelosi wants this sign for the evening news because she has to catch a plane to Europe for a 8 day trip.... well that should surely tell you exactly what to expect for our country over the next two year (until we get to vote again).


“A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.” G. Ford
SEC. 3002. HIT POLICY COMMITTEE.

• `(a) Establishment- There is established a HIT Policy Committee to make policy recommendations to the National Coordinator relating to the implementation of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure, including implementation of the strategic plan described in section 3001(c)(3).

• `(b) Duties-

• • `(1 ) RECOMMENDATIONS ON HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY INFRASTRUCTURE- The HIT Policy Committee shall recommend a policy framework for the development and adoption of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure that permits the electronic exchange and use of health information as is consistent with the strategic plan under section 3001(c)(3) and that includes the recommendations under paragraph (2). The Committee shall update such recommendations and make new recommendations as appropriate.

• • `(2) SPECIFIC AREAS OF STANDARD DEVELOPMENT-

• • • `(A) IN GENERAL- The HIT Policy Committee shall recommend the areas in which standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria are needed for the electronic exchange and use of health information for purposes of adoption under section 3004 and shall recommend an order of priority for the development, harmonization, and recognition of such standards, specifications, and certification criteria among the areas so recommended. Such standards and implementation specifications shall include named standards, architectures, and software schemes for the authentication and security of individually identifiable health information and other information as needed to ensure the reproducible development of common solutions across disparate entities.

• • • `(B) AREAS REQUIRED FOR CONSIDERATION- For purposes of subparagraph (A), the HIT Policy Committee shall make recommendations for at least the following areas:

• • • • `(i) Technologies that protect the privacy of health information and promote security in a qualified electronic health record, including for the segmentation and protection from disclosure of specific and sensitive individually identifiable health information with the goal of minimizing the reluctance of patients to seek care (or disclose information about a condition) because of privacy concerns, in accordance with applicable law, and for the use and disclosure of limited data sets of such information.

• • • • `(ii) A nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the electronic use and accurate exchange of health information.

• • • • `(iii) The utilization of a certified electronic health record for each person in the United States by 2014.

• • • • `(iv) Technologies that as a part of a qualified electronic health record allow for an accounting of disclosures made by a covered entity (as defined for purposes of regulations promulgated under section 264(c) of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996) for purposes of treatment, payment, and health care operations (as such terms are defined for purposes of such regulations).

• • • • `(v) The use of certified electronic health records to improve the quality of health care, such as by promoting the coordination of health care and improving continuity of health care among health care providers, by reducing medical errors, by improving population health, reducing chronic disease, and by advancing research and education.

• • • • `(vi) The use of electronic systems to ensure the comprehensive collection of patient demographic data, including, at a minimum, race, ethnicity, primary language, and gender information.

• • • • `(vii) Technologies and design features that address the needs of children and other vulnerable populations.

• • • `(C) OTHER AREAS FOR CONSIDERATION- In making recommendations under subparagraph (A), the HIT Policy Committee may consider the following additional areas:

• • • • `(i) The appropriate uses of a nationwide health information infrastructure, including for purposes of--

• • • • • `(I) the collection of quality data and public reporting;

• • • • • `(II) biosurveillance and public health;

• • • • • `(III) medical and clinical research; and

• • • • • `(IV) drug safety.

• • • • `(ii) Self-service technologies that facilitate the use and exchange of patient information and reduce wait times.

• • • • `(iii) Telemedicine technologies, in order to reduce travel requirements for patients in remote areas.

• • • • `(iv) Technologies that facilitate home health care and the monitoring of patients recuperating at home.

• • • • `(v) Technologies that help reduce medical errors.

• • • • `(vi) Technologies that facilitate the continuity of care among health settings.

• • • • `(vii) Technologies that meet the needs of diverse populations.

• • • • `(viii) Methods to facilitate secure access by an individual to such individual's protected health information.

• • • • `(ix) Methods, guidelines, and safeguards to facilitate secure access to patient information by a family member, caregiver, or guardian acting on behalf of a patient due to age-related and other disability, cognitive impairment, or dementia that prevents a patient from accessing the patient's individually identifiable health information.

• • • • `(x) Any other technology that the HIT Policy Committee finds to be among the technologies with the greatest potential to improve the quality and efficiency of health care.

• • `(3) FORUM- The HIT Policy Committee shall serve as a forum for broad stakeholder input with specific expertise in policies relating to the matters described in paragraphs (1 ) and (2).

• • `(4) CONSISTENCY WITH EVALUATION CONDUCTED UNDER MIPPA-

• • • `(A) REQUIREMENT FOR CONSISTENCY- The HIT Policy Committee shall ensure that recommendations made under paragraph (2)(B)(vi) are consistent with the evaluation conducted under section 1809(a) of the Social Security Act.

• • • `(B) SCOPE- Nothing in subparagraph (A) shall be construed to limit the recommendations under paragraph (2)(B)(vi) to the elements described in section 1809(a)(3) of the Social Security Act.

• • • `(C) TIMING- The requirement under subparagraph (A) shall be applicable to the extent that evaluations have been conducted under section 1809(a) of the Social Security Act, regardless of whether the report described in subsection (b) of such section has been submitted.

• `(c) Membership and Operations-

• • `(1 ) IN GENERAL- The National Coordinator shall provide leadership in the establishment and operations of the HIT Policy Committee.

• • `(2) MEMBERSHIP- The HIT Policy Committee shall be composed of members to be appointed as follows:

• • • `(A) One member shall be appointed by the Secretary.

• • • `(B) One member shall be appointed by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs who shall represent the Department of Veterans Affairs.

• • • `(C) One member shall be appointed by the Secretary of Defense who shall represent the Department of Defense.

• • • `(D) One member shall be appointed by the Majority Leader of the Senate.

• • • `(E) One member shall be appointed by the Minority Leader of the Senate.

• • • `(F) One member shall be appointed by the Speaker of the House of Representatives.

• • • `(G) One member shall be appointed by the Minority Leader of the House of Representatives.

• • • `(H ) Eleven members shall be appointed by the Comptroller General of the United States, of whom--

• • • • `(i) three members shall represent patients or consumers;

• • • • `(ii) one member shall represent health care providers;

• • • • `(iii) one member shall be from a labor organization representing health care workers;

• • • • `(iv) one member shall have expertise in privacy and security;

• • • • `(v) one member shall have expertise in improving the health of vulnerable populations;

• • • • `(vi) one member shall represent health plans or other third party payers;

• • • • `(vii) one member shall represent information technology vendors;

• • • • `(viii) one member shall represent purchasers or employers; and

• • • • `(ix) one member shall have expertise in health care quality measurement and reporting.

• • `(3) CHAIRPERSON AND VICE CHAIRPERSON- The HIT Policy Committee shall designate one member to serve as the chairperson and one member to serve as the vice chairperson of the Policy Committee.

• • `(4) NATIONAL COORDINATOR- The National Coordinator shall serve as a member of the HIT Policy Committee and act as a liaison among the HIT Policy Committee, the HIT Standards Committee, and the Federal Government.

• • `(5) PARTICIPATION- The members of the HIT Policy Committee appointed under paragraph (2) shall represent a balance among various sectors of the health care system so that no single sector unduly influences the recommendations of the Policy Committee.

• • `(6) TERMS-

• • • `(A) IN GENERAL- The terms of the members of the HIT Policy Committee shall be for 3 years, except that the Comptroller General shall designate staggered terms for the members first appointed.

• • • `(B) VACANCIES- Any member appointed to fill a vacancy in the membership of the HIT Policy Committee that occurs prior to the expiration of the term for which the member's predecessor was appointed shall be appointed only for the remainder of that term. A member may serve after the expiration of that member's term until a successor has been appointed. A vacancy in the HIT Policy Committee shall be filled in the manner in which the original appointment was made.

• • `(7) OUTSIDE INVOLVEMENT- The HIT Policy Committee shall ensure an adequate opportunity for the participation of outside advisors, including individuals with expertise in--

• • • `(A) health information privacy and security;

• • • `(B) improving the health of vulnerable populations;

• • • `(C) health care quality and patient safety, including individuals with expertise in the measurement and use of health information technology to capture data to improve health care quality and patient safety;

• • • `(D) long-term care and aging services;

• • • `(E) medical and clinical research; and

• • • `(F) data exchange and developing health information technology standards and new health information technology.

• • `(8) QUORUM- Ten members of the HIT Policy Committee shall constitute a quorum for purposes of voting, but a lesser number of members may meet and hold hearings.

• • `(9) FAILURE OF INITIAL APPOINTMENT- If, on the date that is 45 days after the date of enactment of this title, an official authorized under paragraph (2) to appoint one or more members of the HIT Policy Committee has not appointed the full number of members that such paragraph authorizes such official to appoint--

• • • `(A) the number of members that such official is authorized to appoint shall be reduced to the number that such official has appointed as of that date; and

• • • `(B) the number prescribed in paragraph (8) as the quorum shall be reduced to the smallest whole number that is greater than one-half of the total number of members who have been appointed as of that date.

• • `(10) CONSIDERATION- The National Coordinator shall ensure that the relevant recommendations and comments from the National Committee on Vital and Health Statistics are considered in the development of policies.

• `(d) Application of Faca- The Federal Advisory Committee Act (5 U.S.C. App.), other than section 14 of such Act, shall apply to the HIT Policy Committee.

• `(e) Publication- The Secretary shall provide for publication in the Federal Register and the posting on the Internet website of the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology of all policy recommendations made by the HIT Policy Committee under this section.

`




`

__________________
The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

Subject:


`SEC. 3003. HIT STANDARDS COMMITTEE.

• `(a) Establishment- There is established a committee to be known as the HIT Standards Committee to recommend to the National Coordinator standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria for the electronic exchange and use of health information for purposes of adoption under section 3004, consistent with the implementation of the strategic plan described in section 3001(c)(3) and beginning with the areas listed in section 3002(b)(2)(B) in accordance with policies developed by the HIT Policy Committee.

• `(b) Duties-

• • `(1 ) STANDARD DEVELOPMENT-

• • • `(A) IN GENERAL- The HIT Standards Committee shall recommend to the National Coordinator standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria described in subsection (a) that have been developed, harmonized, or recognized by the HIT Standards Committee. The HIT Standards Committee shall update such recommendations and make new recommendations as appropriate, including in response to a notification sent under section 3004(b)(2). Such recommendations shall be consistent with the latest recommendations made by the HIT Policy Committee.

• • • `(B) PILOT TESTING OF STANDARDS AND IMPLEMENTATION SPECIFICATIONS- In the development, harmonization, or recognition of standards and implementation specifications, the HIT Standards Committee shall, as appropriate, provide for the testing of such standards and specifications by the National Institute for Standards and Technology under section 14201 of the Health Information Technology for Economic and Clinical Health Act.

• • • `(C) CONSISTENCY- The standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria recommended under this subsection shall be consistent with the standards for information transactions and data elements adopted pursuant to section 1173 of the Social Security Act.

• • `(2) FORUM- The HIT Standards Committee shall serve as a forum for the participation of a broad range of stakeholders to provide input on the development, harmonization, and recognition of standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria necessary for the development and adoption of a nationwide health information technology infrastructure that allows for the electronic use and exchange of health information.

• • `(3) SCHEDULE- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this title, the HIT Standards Committee shall develop a schedule for the assessment of policy recommendations developed by the HIT Policy Committee under section 3002. The HIT Standards Committee shall update such schedule annually. The Secretary shall publish such schedule in the Federal Register.

• • `(4) PUBLIC INPUT- The HIT Standards Committee shall conduct open public meetings and develop a process to allow for public comment on the schedule described in paragraph (3) and recommendations described in this subsection. Under such process comments shall be submitted in a timely manner after the date of publication of a recommendation under this subsection.

• • `(5) CONSIDERATION- The National Coordinator shall ensure that the relevant recommendations and comments from the National Committee on Vital and Health Statistics are considered in the development of standards.

• `(c) Membership and Operations-

• • `(1 ) IN GENERAL- The National Coordinator shall provide leadership in the establishment and operations of the HIT Standards Committee.

• • `(2) MEMBERSHIP- The membership of the HIT Standards Committee shall at least reflect providers, ancillary healthcare workers, consumers, purchasers, health plans, technology vendors, researchers, relevant Federal agencies, and individuals with technical expertise on health care quality, privacy and security, and on the electronic exchange and use of health information.

• • `(3) BROAD PARTICIPATION- There is broad participation in the HIT Standards Committee by a variety of public and private stakeholders, either through membership in the Committee or through another means.

• • `(4) CHAIRPERSON; VICE CHAIRPERSON- The HIT Standards Committee may designate one member to serve as the chairperson and one member to serve as the vice chairperson.

• • `(5) DEPARTMENT MEMBERSHIP- The Secretary shall be a member of the HIT Standards Committee. The National Coordinator shall act as a liaison among the HIT Standards Committee, the HIT Policy Committee, and the Federal Government.

• • `(6) BALANCE AMONG SECTORS- In developing the procedures for conducting the activities of the HIT Standards Committee, the HIT Standards Committee shall act to ensure a balance among various sectors of the health care system so that no single sector unduly influences the actions of the HIT Standards Committee.

• • `(7) ASSISTANCE- For the purposes of carrying out this section, the Secretary may provide or ensure that financial assistance is provided by the HIT Standards Committee to defray in whole or in part any membership fees or dues charged by such Committee to those consumer advocacy groups and not for profit entities that work in the public interest as a part of their mission.

• `(d) Open and Public Process- In providing for the establishment of the HIT Standards Committee pursuant to subsection (a), the Secretary shall ensure the following:

• • `(1 ) CONSENSUS APPROACH; OPEN PROCESS- The HIT Standards Committee shall use a consensus approach and a fair and open process to support the development, harmonization, and recognition of standards described in subsection (a)(1 ).

• • `(2) PARTICIPATION OF OUTSIDE ADVISERS- The HIT Standards Committee shall ensure an adequate opportunity for the participation of outside advisors, including individuals with expertise in--

• • • `(A) health information privacy;

• • • `(B) health information security;

• • • `(C) health care quality and patient safety, including individuals with expertise in utilizing health information technology to improve healthcare quality and patient safety;

• • • `(D) long-term care and aging services; and

• • • `(E) data exchange and developing health information technology standards and new health information technology.

• • `(3) OPEN MEETINGS- Plenary and other regularly scheduled formal meetings of the HIT Standards Committee (or established subgroups thereof) shall be open to the public.

• • `(4) PUBLICATION OF MEETING NOTICES AND MATERIALS PRIOR TO MEETINGS- The HIT Standards Committee shall develop and maintain an Internet website on which it publishes, prior to each meeting, a meeting notice, a meeting agenda, and meeting materials.

• • `(5) OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT- The HIT Standards Committee shall develop a process that allows for public comment during the process by which the Entity develops, harmonizes, or recognizes standards and implementation specifications.

• `(e) Voluntary Consensus Standard Body- The provisions of section 12(d) of the National Technology Transfer and Advancement Act of 1995 (15 U.S.C. 272 note) and the Office of Management and Budget circular 119 shall apply to the HIT Standards Committee.

• `(f) Publication- The Secretary shall provide for publication in the Federal Register and the posting on the Internet website of the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology of all recommendations made by the HIT Standards Committee under this section.

`SEC. 3004. PROCESS FOR ADOPTION OF ENDORSED RECOMMENDATIONS; ADOPTION OF INITIAL SET OF STANDARDS, IMPLEMENTATION SPECIFICATIONS, AND CERTIFICATION CRITERIA.

• `(a) Process for Adoption of Endorsed Recommendations-

• • `(1 ) REVIEW OF ENDORSED STANDARDS, IMPLEMENTATION SPECIFICATIONS, AND CERTIFICATION CRITERIA- Not later than 90 days after the date of receipt of standards, implementation specifications, or certification criteria endorsed under section 3001(c), the Secretary, in consultation with representatives of other relevant Federal agencies, shall jointly review such standards, implementation specifications, or certification criteria and shall determine whether or not to propose adoption of such standards, implementation specifications, or certification criteria.

• • `(2) DETERMINATION TO ADOPT STANDARDS, IMPLEMENTATION SPECIFICATIONS, AND CERTIFICATION CRITERIA- If the Secretary determines--

• • • `(A) to propose adoption of any grouping of such standards, implementation specifications, or certification criteria, the Secretary shall, by regulation, determine whether or not to adopt such grouping of standards, implementation specifications, or certification criteria; or

• • • `(B) not to propose adoption of any grouping of standards, implementation specifications, or certification criteria, the Secretary shall notify the National Coordinator and the HIT Standards Committee in writing of such determination and the reasons for not proposing the adoption of such recommendation.

• • `(3) PUBLICATION- The Secretary shall provide for publication in the Federal Register of all determinations made by the Secretary under paragraph (1 ).

• `(b) Adoption of Standards, Implementation Specifications, and Certification Criteria-

• • `(1 ) IN GENERAL- Not later than December 31, 2009, the Secretary shall, through the rulemaking process described in section 3003, adopt an initial set of standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria for the areas required for consideration under section 3002(b)(2)(B).

• • `(2) APPLICATION OF CURRENT STANDARDS, IMPLEMENTATION SPECIFICATIONS, AND CERTIFICATION CRITERIA- The standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria adopted before the date of the enactment of this title through the process existing through the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology may be applied towards meeting the requirement of paragraph (1 ).

• • `(3) SUBSEQUENT STANDARDS ACTIVITY- The Secretary shall adopt additional standards, implementation specifications, and certification criteria as necessary and consistent with the schedule published under section 3003(b)(2).

`SEC. 3005. APPLICATION AND USE OF ADOPTED STANDARDS AND IMPLEMENTATION SPECIFICATIONS BY FEDERAL AGENCIES.

• `For requirements relating to the application and use by Federal agencies of the standards and implementation specifications adopted under section 3004, see section 13111 of the Health Information Technology for Economic and Clinical Health Act.

`SEC. 3006. VOLUNTARY APPLICATION AND USE OF ADOPTED STANDARDS AND IMPLEMENTATION SPECIFICATIONS BY PRIVATE ENTITIES.

• `(a) In General- Except as provided under section 13112 of the Health Information Technology for Economic and Clinical Health Act, any standard or implementation specification adopted under section 3004 shall be voluntary with respect to private entities.

• `(b) Rule of Construction- Nothing in this subtitle shall be construed to require that a private entity that enters into a contract with the Federal Government apply or use the standards and implementation specifications adopted under section 3004 with respect to activities not related to the contract.

`SEC. 3007. FEDERAL HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY.

• `(a) In General- The National Coordinator shall support the development and routine updating of qualified electronic health record technology (as defined in section 3000) consistent with subsections (b) and (c) and make available such qualified electronic health record technology unless the Secretary and the HIT Policy Committee determine through an assessment that the needs and demands of providers are being substantially and adequately met through the marketplace.

• `(b) Certification- In making such EHR technology publicly available, the National Coordinator shall ensure that the qualified EHR technology described in subsection (a) is certified under the program developed under section 3001(c)(3) to be in compliance with applicable standards adopted under section 3003(a).

• `(c) Authorization To Charge a Nominal Fee- The National Coordinator may impose a nominal fee for the adoption by a health care provider of the health information technology system developed or approved under subsection (a) and (b). Such fee shall take into account the financial circumstances of smaller providers, low income providers, and providers located in rural or other medically underserved areas.

• `(d) Rule of Construction- Nothing in this section shall be construed to require that a private or government entity adopt or use the technology provided under this section.

SEC. 3008. TRANSITIONS.

• `(a) ONCHIT- Nothing in section 3001 shall be construed as requiring the creation of a new entity to the extent that the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology established pursuant to Executive Order 13335 is consistent with the provisions of section 3001.

• `(b) National EHealth Collaborative- Nothing in sections 3002 or 3003 or this subsection shall be construed as prohibiting the National eHealth Collaborative from modifying its charter, duties, membership, and any other structure or function required to be consistent with the requirements of a voluntary consensus standards body so as to allow the Secretary to recognize the National eHealth Collaborative as the HIT Standards Committee.

• `(c) Consistency of Recommendations- In carrying out section 3003(b)(1 )(A), until recommendations are made by the HIT Policy Committee, recommendations of the HIT Standards Committee shall be consistent with the most recent recommendations made by such AHIC Successor, Inc.

`SEC. 3009. RELATION TO HIPAA PRIVACY AND SECURITY LAW.

• `(a) In General- With respect to the relation of this title to HIPAA privacy and security law:

• • `(1 ) This title may not be construed as having any effect on the authorities of the Secretary under HIPAA privacy and security law.

• • `(2) The purposes of this title include ensuring that the health information technology standards and implementation specifications adopted under section 3004 take into account the requirements of HIPAA privacy and security law.

• `(b) Definition- For purposes of this section, the term `HIPAA privacy and security law' means--

• • `(1 ) the provisions of part C of title XI of the Social Security Act, section 264 of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996, and subtitle D of the Health Information Technology for Economic and Clinical Health Act; and

• • `(2) regulations under such provisions.'.

SEC. 13102. TECHNICAL AMENDMENT.

• Section 1171(5) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1320d) is amended by striking `or C' and inserting `C, or D'.

PART II--APPLICATION AND USE OF ADOPTED HEALTH INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY STANDARDS; REPORTS



SEC. 13111. COORDINATION OF FEDERAL ACTIVITIES WITH ADOPTED STANDARDS AND IMPLEMENTATION SPECIFICATIONS.

• (a) Spending on Health Information Technology Systems- As each agency (as defined in the Executive Order issued on August 22, 2006, relating to promoting quality and efficient health care in Federal government administered or sponsored health care programs) implements, acquires, or upgrades health information technology systems used for the direct exchange of individually identifiable health information between agencies and with non-Federal entities, it shall utilize, where available, health information technology systems and products that meet standards and implementation specifications adopted under section 3004(b) of the Public Health Service Act, as added by section 13101.

• (b) Federal Information Collection Activities- With respect to a standard or implementation specification adopted under section 3004(b) of the Public Health Service Act, as added by section 13101, the President shall take measures to ensure that Federal activities involving the broad collection and submission of health information are consistent with such standard or implementation specification, respectively, within three years after the date of such adoption.

• (c) Application of Definitions- The definitions contained in section 3000 of the Public Health Service Act, as added by section 13101, shall apply for purposes of this part.

SEC. 13112. APPLICATION TO PRIVATE ENTITIES.

• Each agency (as defined in such Executive Order issued on August 22, 2006, relating to promoting quality and efficient health care in Federal government administered or sponsored health care programs) shall require in contracts or agreements with health care providers, health plans, or health insurance issuers that as each provider, plan, or issuer implements, acquires, or upgrades health information technology systems, it shall utilize, where available, health information technology systems and products that meet standards and implementation specifications adopted under section 3004(b) of the Public Health Service Act, as added by section 13101.

SEC. 13113. STUDY AND REPORTS.

• (a) Report on Adoption of Nationwide System- Not later than 2 years after the date of the enactment of this Act and annually thereafter, the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall submit to the appropriate committees of jurisdiction of the House of Representatives and the Senate a report that--

• • (1 ) describes the specific actions that have been taken by the Federal Government and private entities to facilitate the adoption of a nationwide system for the electronic use and exchange of health information;

• • (2) describes barriers to the adoption of such a nationwide system; and

• • (3) contains recommendations to achieve full implementation of such a nationwide system.

• (b) Reimbursement Incentive Study and Report-

• • (1 ) STUDY- The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall carry out, or contract with a private entity to carry out, a study that examines methods to create efficient reimbursement incentives for improving health care quality in Federally qualified health centers, rural health clinics, and free clinics.

• • (2) REPORT- Not later than 2 years after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall submit to the appropriate committees of jurisdiction of the House of Representatives and the Senate a report on the study carried out under paragraph (1 ).

• (c) Aging Services Technology Study and Report-

• • (1 ) IN GENERAL- The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall carry out, or contract with a private entity to carry out, a study of matters relating to the potential use of new aging services technology to assist seniors, individuals with disabilities, and their caregivers throughout the aging process.

• • (2) MATTERS TO BE STUDIED- The study under paragraph (1 ) shall include--

• • • (A) an evaluation of--

• • • • (i) methods for identifying current, emerging, and future health technology that can be used to meet the needs of seniors and individuals with disabilities and their caregivers across all aging services settings, as specified by the Secretary;

• • • • (ii) methods for fostering scientific innovation with respect to aging services technology within the business and academic communities; and

• • • • (iii) developments in aging services technology in other countries that may be applied in the United States; and

• • • (B) identification of--

• • • • (i) barriers to innovation in aging services technology and devising strategies for removing such barriers; and

• • • • (ii) barriers to the adoption of aging services technology by health care providers and consumers and devising strategies to removing such barriers.

• • (3) REPORT- Not later than 24 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall submit to the appropriate committees of jurisdiction of the House of Representatives and of the Senate a report on the study carried out under paragraph (1 ).

• • (4) DEFINITIONS- For purposes of this subsection:

• • • (A) AGING SERVICES TECHNOLOGY- The term `aging services technology' means health technology that meets the health care needs of seniors, individuals with disabilities, and the caregivers of such seniors and individuals.

• • • (B) SENIOR- The term `senior' has such meaning as specified by the Secretary.

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

Let me know if I haven't annoyed the tinkle out of y'all. I have another one to post. Humor will get us through, right?

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

I sure hope so.
I just saw a short calculation on NRO that congress spent one million dollars per second deliberating this bill!
One Million Dollars a Second - John J. Pitney Jr. - The Corner on National Review Online=

And that isn't funny at all.

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They’re all for diversity in everything but thought.
George Will

I wonder. We are 'spending' a lot of money and much of it is borrowed from other coutries like China. What happens when the crooks at the top realize that we've borrowed too much, that we are almost insolvent and that no one will lend any more money for bailouts and socialistic spending programs?

I guess we print a crazy amount of paper to make our debts more managable, then reach out and hand that worthless paper to China and say, "Here you go, we're paying you back with Monopoly Money. I don't think China is going to be too happy to be paid back with worthless paper. I could proceed with this line of reasoning, but suffice it to say we are in a hell of a spiral. I sure wish I were smarter and could realize what to do to position myself better. I damn near want to go live in a tent in the woods to save on rent and wait till thing collapse further. I guess I'd have to go to the library to use the Net and stay up on current events (sowal.com) etc. We'll see. Maybe instead of the woods, a backyard would be better. Anybody have room in their backyard for a tent? Maybe let me keep a few things in your fridge. I have a camp stove.

China and Japan have little choice. We are the big import country that they export goods to and if the market for our bonds disappears, so does our economy, so does the world economy and everybody goes down the tubes.

The press is our worst enemy in times like these. Periodically, some writer will post a story questioning how long China will continue to buy US bonds. An echo story is about how the US has lost its pretige and is not growing like it used to, that our economic leadership is in jeopardy. It's pure BS. I belong to a couple of boards in which members discuss stock/options/futures trading. I once posted a poll asking members to name the country that is the world's largest economy. A majority said China. Not even close. They had been influenced by irresponisble stories in the press, cleverly written so as to suggest facts that are not true. And these guys trade stocks, many for a living. They should know better. I encourage people to do first-hand research as opposed to relying on the press. If you want to learn about federal gov't receipts and expenses, go to bea.gov. Unemployment stats, bls.gov. And so on.

There is no way we can ever extinguish our budget deficit let alone our debt. We know it and the rest of the world knows it. Nobody likes it but nobody wants to live through the alternative. Sort of an economic MAD policy.

Pass the guns and butter please.

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Democrats couldn't care less if people in Indiana hate them. But if Europeans curl their lips, liberals can't look at themselves in the mirror.
-Ann Coulter