wrobert

Barack Obama supports prayer in public schools
"But a sense of proportion should also guide those who police the boundaries between church and state. Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation - context matters. It is doubtful that children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance feel oppressed or brainwashed as a consequence of muttering the phrase "under God." I certainly didn't. Having voluntary student prayer groups using school property to meet should not be a threat, any more than its use by the High School Republicans should threaten Democrats."


I love this website
http://glassbooth.org/explore/index/.../education/14/

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elgordoboy

If that quote is meant to support your premise then you are near to becoming a caricature. That is ok for me as I don't aspire to be more, but more is expected out of you. We can't all be cynical and clownish, plus I need you as a "straight man".

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Haters gonna hate, Ballers gonna ball

wrobert

It is great to be needed. But as much flak as I took for my stand on voluntary prayer in public schools, I find this new revelation quite amusing.

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traderx

If the site is accurate, Obama also opposes gay marriage. I am surprised.

http://glassbooth.org/explore/index/...gay-rights/15/

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"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time."

--Winston Churchill

jdarg

Robert, from the ad you ran in the DeFuniak Herald, it states that you support allowing "songs that mention "Jesus" to be sung as part of a Christmas Program". I don't see how this is akin to voluntary Christian school prayer, which is fine outside of the classroom and official school programs. Once again, this is public school, not Christian public school.

Of course I am still scratching my head wondering why that ad needed to be run at all. Politicizing the school board race makes me very unhappy and uncomfortable.

Tootsie

did you read the entire speech? you really should in order to understand his message and his ability to reach out and bring people of all faiths, or no faith, together... the following paragraph followed the one you quoted above...

I don't know about that website but if you can find your way to the entire speech then you will learn much about the entire message Obama delivers, and has been delivering over the last few years. you may find him very inspring indeed.

Bob

it never ends......Palin...prayer....pipelines

singinchicken

I'll go out on the proverbial limb and will say it.

Obama is saying whatever is necessary to ensure that the Teacher's Union vote is in his pocket.

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Tootsie

the speech quoted is from 2006. obama's stances are typically quite moderate with a lot of depth. unless you have followed him and his speeches, or at least read his books, then you wouldn't know his stances and how broad minded they tend to be, making a whole lot of sense. these issues are rarely simple, as politicians like to make them seem.

singinchicken

sorry...I missed the 06 part.

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shellak

why is it so difficult to accept the concept of keeping religion out of public schools? send your children to parochial schools if you want religious education and outward prayer. otherwise, your kids can pray in silence until they are blue in the face if they want. the rest of us "non-christians" do not have to be held hostage or be a captive audience. it is difficult enough to be "different" in the eyes of others during childhood. praying in a teacher or student-led environment just emphasizes the differences. go to church everyday if you want. no one is stopping you. jesus belongs in church, not public school. those of you who think our moral values have been lowered because we don't pray in school are kidding themselves. i'm sure all the christians who keep pushing this issue would be absolutely mortified if the chosen prayers were muslim, hebrew, etc. instead of christian. quit trying to shove your theology down others throats. and by the way, we all know that there are walton county teachers that circumvent the separation of church and state. heck, the walton county courthouse has or had a 30 foot wall display that had the 10 commandments and a quote allegedly from jesus. really appropriate, right?

Smiling JOe

I'm curious to hear what each of you thinks about the Association of Christian Athletes and the players gathering in the center of the field after a game to pray. I know that State College athletes do this, but don't know if they do it at the high-school level.

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Smiling JOe

I believe that current laws are based on the 10 Commandments, so I can see why people would want to appreciated the history of our laws. At all County Commissioner Meetings in Walton County, they open with a Christian prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance. Both Houses of Congress at the State and Federal levels, also open each gathering with a prayer and the Pledge, although, not all of the prayers are Christian, but an overwhelming majority are. Christianity is found in all aspects of our gov't, and as long as public schools are ran by the gov't, you can expect that Christian influences will be found.

Personally, I don't want to be preached at, but I have no problem with some modern things which are tied to their historical references.

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Rita

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Last week my daughter took the photography assignment of covering the Association of Christian Athletes meeting one morning before school. She described it as "interesting". I asked her how so and her response was that the pastor who lead it told the group " ....... because you are the Christians of the school." Jackie focused on that comment. While I feel the intent of the comment was meant in regard to leadership etc., the words were poorly chosen imo. Minor maybe but it stood out to my daughter.


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"Peace .... starts with the person who attempts to diffuse the tension and backs away from the inflammatory rhetoric."

jdarg

As long as they don't require participation, and it is not disruptive to the event (as in not during the event), I can live with it.

wrobert

Well first of all the flak I took was on this board where I did state that I was for voluntary school prayer.

I consider Jesus an integral part of Christmas. The solution would be just to not have a Christmas program.

And I as explained to you, the point of the ad was to show that I would take a stand on issues, not ignore the question or go the undecided route.

Elections are what politicize these things. If people would vote on issues, that would be great. I hope to one day be able to participate in an election that is about issues. But so far, I am not seeing it.

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Smiling JOe

Rita, maybe I'm missing some key words. From my limited perspective, that sounds like nothing more than "you are representing Christians, so make sure your actions convey that in the way you conduct yourselves."

My coaches and teachers would have given my class or teams similar lectures anytime we went off campus, although they would ask us to remember that we were representing our School, and that we should behave accordingly.

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30A Skunkape

No Christmas carols will be tolerated during mid-winter break

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jdarg

Even more reason to make sure that Christianity in public schools is not used in a divisive way. I don't mind historical references either, but when Christian references are the only references "allowed", then that is exclusionary and wrong. It is easier all the way around to leave church at church and education at school.

It's a new day,like it or not, and all peoples need to be respected, not Christians over the others just because our traditions started out with a Christian influence.

wrobert

His stand on Charter schools says differently. That is what I find strange. Because I know both the teachers unions and most democrats are very much against shifting any tax dollars toward a private enterprise.

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Smiling JOe

Did you mean "don't" require participation?

I draw the comparison between this organization being voluntary, but school related, because it shows that the separation between church and state as a very fuzzy line. In some cases, it seems okay, yet in others, no way Jose.

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Smiling JOe

I understand that point of view and agree that any religious quotes or references should be very open. One problem with that is that the history of the USA is mostly Christian in influence, and if we want to go to historical references of gov't, we aren't likely to find influences from Atheism, Paganism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.

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jdarg

Bringing up the issue of Jesus being included in the school Christmas program is not an issue that even needs to be addressed, especially when the school board has educational issues that need to take priority. Your ad should have hghlighted issues that weren't religious/emotional, like teacher salaries, special ed, curriculum. Running an ad based on Jesus in the Christmas program, a sex ed scare tactic, and the yoga being a mind altering activity was an insult and was designed to "plant the seeds" so to speak that your opponent wasn't on the same "family values" platform.

Your opponent is not politicizing the school board race- her campaign has been all about the students and regular school district issues- not trying to pander to those who take the Christian Coalition questionnaire to heart and going for the fear factor vote.

jdarg

We are talking about 2 separate things then. Christianity in a historical context in history class is one thing, having prayer in the classroom and religion influencing curriculum and school decisions is another.

jdarg

Yup. Typing to fast this morning- I am madder than a hornet about this thread.

Smiling JOe

I'm confused. I thought YOGA (not the exercise) WAS a mind-altering activity.

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Smiling JOe

I understand your point, and we are talking about two separate things. I have addressed prayer, but was particularly talking about historical religious influences in our laws and courts, and the idea of the Ten Commandments in a Court House, since our current laws were based on the laws of Christianity.

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jdarg

Apparently the Christian Coalition thinks yoga is bad.

Rita

I suspect that this was in fact the intended message. It is just that my daughter thought the wording could be construed to mean that maybe if you did not join this group you were not Christian. She is smart enough to know better and assumes that the pastor knows better, but his wording (and since I wasn't there don't have it exact) gave her pause. That's all. Words, phrasing, delivery - it all matters in communicating your message.

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"Peace .... starts with the person who attempts to diffuse the tension and backs away from the inflammatory rhetoric."

Smiling JOe

Rita, I guess that makes sense, but taking the phrase out of context, may be missing the message.

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30A Skunkape

It is the first step on a slippery slope of worshipping a six armed elephant.

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jdarg

I know you are being funny, but there are people in this county who apparently think that your six armed elephant is going to worm it's way into the children's minds, and the power of suggestion is a powerful tool in political advertising.

Jennifer Steele Saunders

Well, that would explain why 75% of the adults in my childhood church were obese...they really were, but I'm just kidding.

elgordoboy

I was discussing the reported benefits of meditation and had one of my Aunts say "But isn't meditation sinning?" It was an honest question from an otherwise worldly woman. (I was discussing staring at an orange btw, and not even saying OM or Mephistopheles while doing it.)

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Haters gonna hate, Ballers gonna ball

mossyhead

Along the lines of this topic of religion in the schools here are some links to a 3 part series concerning our Constituiton and our founding fathers.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2942

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2971

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3007

Geo

I am absolutely fascinated that with all that is going on in this country right now that there are so many who care (and care much) what our candidates' stances are on this issue...

I am personally against prayer/religion in public schools. But I would vote for a candidate with exactly the opposite view in one second flat if they demonstrated they could reverse our course on the more pressing issues we face...

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Cheering472

My children are squarely in the middle of this as their jobs are teacher/preacher. I don't care for prayer led by a teacher, she is taxed enough. Let teachers teach and parents deal with prayer and all religious training at home and church. As a student you are not stopped from praying in school. It's a personal issue between that student and God. It's not prohibited but doesn't need to be sanctioned or led by the schools administration.

The Fellowship of Christian Atheletes was and still is an important part of my sons life. It was held in school before or after the school day. Just like cheerleading or playing ball, involvement was a choice. On Friday nights the football team had the national anthem played prior to every game. Right after that my son could be seen taking a knee on the sideline saying a quiet prayer. Not prayers to win, but for safety and that others would see God in his actions. It wasn't sanctioned by or led by the school, yet he found the time to do it. The coaches and other players gave him no grief about it and waited until he was done to take the field.

School programs can't possible cover all beliefs. Do you want your child to follow all the Jewish holidays and learn their prayers along with the Christmas carols during a school program? Are you only interested in your child being able to sing and pray? If you are a Christian, He is with you everywhere. You don't need the teachers or coaches to help you find Him. If you feel your child needs help with this, choose private school.

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One tequila, two tequila, three tequila...floor.

wrobert

But after they fixed the immediate problem......then what?

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wrobert

I absolutely agree. I have issues with corporate prayer of any sort. Your relationship is your relationship. And I am happy that if Obama were to get elected we can count on him to protect the students and their relationships in the future after he gets finished fixing the economy.

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Geo

Nukular proliferation?
Iraq War?
Energy Dependence?
Economy?
Broken Biparty System?
Corruption, Lobbyists?
Health Care?
Poverty?
Infrastructure (e.g. Roads and Highways)?
Climate Change?


Which immediate problem are you referring to?

I think there are enough real issues to keep elected leaders busy for quite some time before prayer in schools or christmas carols is worthy of the Top 10 list...

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scooterbug44

School prayer is one of the minor issues politicians throw out to distract people from the BIG IMPORTANT issues.

If a politician was able to solve our economic crisis, improve our education system, secure our borders, solve our drug and crime problems, get access to health care for everyone, get us out of occupying foreign countries, keep american children form living in poverty and squalor, solve our dependence on foreign and domestic oil, pay off the federal debt, get religion out of the room when my feet are in stirrups, and get equal treatment for every citizen................then I'll gladly let them pray in public schools!

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

30A Skunkape

Hello, the GOP needs a six armed elephant!

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Miss Kitty

I am betting the kids in private school are praying extra hard that their parents can afford the tuition.

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

Smiling JOe

Four legs seems to be more than enough for the GOP.

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Smiling JOe

So, I just saw the Mr Nelson's ad, and am okay with the first three issues which he points out, but I am wondering WTF is he thinking with the last one. Care to comment, wrobert?

How would some school personnel "use yoga" on someone? I mean, anyone who has ventured into studying religion would know enough that one doesn't "use" (perform) yoga on someone. What is it exactly that you are scared of happening? I'd be much more concerned with the physical health of the kids than I would be with weather or not a kid does any of the seven parts of Yoga. Hell, the exercise part of Yoga might actually get some of the obese kids off the sugar and caffeine.

YOUR ad has received my full attention.

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wrobert

I believe the ad that you are speaking of was never ran. It was a mock up for consideration and changed before being placed after I received responses from the people that I had sent it too.

During campaigns several things are always tested. You should see the postcard that I did not send.

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Smiling JOe

So, who created the ad, which didn't run, referring to the "using Yoga on students?" What about Yoga scares you as a Christian?

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Miss Kitty

Here's a thought...

We should all pray that the schools adopt some yoga for it's students! The yoga would be good for the body as well as the mind. Stress reliver from all the silly stuff adults put on them all day!

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

scooterbug44

Anyhoo - falling test scores, budget, curriculum, qualified teachers, students unprepared for college............

Not to detract from the uber important yoga topic.

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

futurebeachbum

I always liked Yoga. I liked his little firend Boo-Boo and Mr. Ranger too.

Wait? What? Oh. Nevermind!

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With 21+ straight years of no leadership, bad decisions and partisan politics in DC what this country needs is a knee-jerk moderate to run things.