rapunzel

The speech will be at 12 noon CDT. It seems that it will be a major event. CNN and others will carry it live, and it will be streamed on HuffingtonPost.com. Expectations are high because of the historical associations with Kennedy and Reagan. This was the sight of the "Ich bin Ein Berliner" and "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" moments.

6thGen

No, it's not. He requested the Brandenburg Gate, but had to settle for the Victory Column, after Merkel objected. Krauthammer nailed it in this article. It's a free article, with a link, so you'll object to the content but I think I'm posting it in a kosher manner.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...hment_gap.html

The Audacity of Vanity
ByCharles Krauthammer

WASHINGTON -- Barack Obama wants to speak at the Brandenburg Gate.

He figures it would be a nice backdrop. The supporting cast -- a cheering audience and a few fainting frauleins -- would be a picturesque way to bolster his foreign policy credentials.

What Obama does not seem to understand is that the Brandenburg Gate is something you earn. President Reagan earned the right to speak there because his relentless pressure had brought the Soviet empire to its knees and he was demanding its final "tear down this wall" liquidation. When President Kennedy visited the Brandenburg Gate on the day of his "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech, he was representing a country that was prepared to go to the brink of nuclear war to defend West Berlin.

Who is Obama representing? And what exactly has he done in his lifetime to merit appropriating the Brandenburg Gate as a campaign prop? What was his role in the fight against communism, the liberation of Eastern Europe, the creation of what George Bush 41 -- who presided over the fall of the Berlin Wall but modestly declined to go there for a victory lap -- called "a Europe whole and free"?

Does Obama not see the incongruity? It's as if a German pol took a campaign trip to America and demanded the Statue of Liberty as a venue for a campaign speech. (The Germans have now gently nudged Obama into looking at other venues.)

Americans are beginning to notice Obama's elevated opinion of himself.

There's nothing new about narcissism in politics. Every senator looks in the mirror and sees a president. Nonetheless, has there ever been a presidential nominee with a wider gap between his estimation of himself and the sum total of his lifetime achievements?

Obama is a three-year senator without a single important legislative achievement to his name, a former Illinois state senator who voted "present" nearly 130 times. As president of the Harvard Law Review, as law professor and as legislator, has he ever produced a single notable piece of scholarship? Written a single memorable article? His most memorable work is a biography of his favorite subject: himself.

It is a subject upon which he can dilate effortlessly. In his victory speech upon winning the nomination, Obama declared it a great turning point in history -- "generations from now we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment" -- when, among other wonders, "the rise of the oceans began to slow." As economist Irwin Stelzer noted in his London Daily Telegraph column, "Moses made the waters recede, but he had help." Obama apparently works alone.

Obama may think he's King Canute, but the good king ordered the tides to halt precisely to refute sycophantic aides who suggested that he had such power. Obama has no such modesty.

After all, in the words of his own slogan, "we are the ones we've been waiting for," which, translating the royal "we," means: "I am the one we've been waiting for." Amazingly, he had a quasi-presidential seal with its own Latin inscription affixed to his podium, until general ridicule -- it was pointed out that he was not yet president -- induced him to take it down

He lectures us that instead of worrying about immigrants learning English, "you need to make sure your child can speak Spanish" -- a language Obama does not speak. He further admonishes us on how "embarrassing" it is that Europeans are multilingual but "we go over to Europe, and all we can say is, 'merci beaucoup.'" Obama speaks no French.

His fluent English does, however, feature many such admonitions, instructions and improvements. His wife assures us that President Obama will be a stern taskmaster: "Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism ... that you come out of your isolation. ... Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed."

For the first few months of the campaign, the question about Obama was: Who is he? The question now is: Who does he think he is?

We are getting to know. Redeemer of our uninvolved, uninformed lives. Lord of the seas. And more. As he said on victory night, his rise marks the moment when "our planet began to heal." As I recall -- I'm no expert on this -- Jesus practiced his healing just on the sick. Obama operates on a larger canvas.

rapunzel

My understanding is that the speech is taking place at the Tiergarten, which is the park that is adjacent to the Brandenberg Gate, and that the decision to not speak with the gate as a backdrop came from the Obama camp. We all know Krauthammer is the consummate neutral journalist. Regardless, the speech is taking place in Berlin, and that was my point.

Just trying to explain to non-political junkies why there was a lot of buzz around the speech and it might be a good one to catch.

There will be bears! And yes, they are directly in front of the Brandenburg Gate.

hnooe

I am getting chills up my spine awaiting the speech of Barack Obama today.

I was 10, and remember well, when Kennedy said "Ich bin ein Berliner"' during his Historic speech while there...

I hope History will repeat itself today.

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6thGen

It doesn't surprise me that the Obama camp is taking credit for backing off the request, but

"Mr Obama will stand a mile away from the Brandenburg Gate, having been prevented from delivering his speech in front of the monument because he is not a political leader or Head of State. His campaign team have described the speech a 'substantive address on US-European relations'. "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4390466.ece

and

"BERLIN (AP) — German Chancellor Angela Merkel has signaled unease over the prospect of a possible speech by Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama at Berlin's historic Brandenburg Gate, a spokesman said Wednesday.

Merkel has 'only limited understanding for using the Brandenburg Gate as an election campaign backdrop, as it were, and has expressed skepticism about pursuing such plans,' Thomas Steg, a spokesman for the chancellor, told reporters."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...N5wiQD91QDKN80

30ashopper

I think this whole thing, after it's over, will backfire for Obama. Krauthammer is right, Obama is getting "too big for his own britches", and AFAIC, Europe can stay the hell out of our elections. Are there others out there who are a little annoyed at Europe's pretention in all this? The whole thing is really starting to turn me off. I'm not a fan of Obama's politics, but I feel more today than ever that he now deserves to lose as punishment for all his posturing.

singinchicken

"I am a jelly donut!"

I hope Obama leaves out "ein" not that he would be arrogant enough to use that quote...but then again...

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6thGen

Fred was my 08 dream candidate, and I wouldn't be thrilled with him delivering a 'substantive address on US-European relations', despite his far superior resume.

scooterbug44

Obama is creating a great deal of good will towards America in foreign countries - a nice change to the anti-American sentiment many felt as a result of Bush's actions.

Of course he wants to give the speech at an iconic and photogenic location - that's not ego, it's practical!

__________________
"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

rapunzel

BARACK OBAMA BERLIN SPEECH: 'A WORLD THAT STANDS AS ONE'
THURS JULY 24 2008 12:58:02

Thank you to the citizens of Berlin and to the people of Germany. Let me thank Chancellor Merkel and Foreign Minister Steinmeier for welcoming me earlier today. Thank you Mayor Wowereit, the Berlin Senate, the police, and most of all thank you for this welcome.

I come to Berlin as so many of my countrymen have come before. Tonight, I speak to you not as a candidate for President, but as a citizen -- a proud citizen of the United States, and a fellow citizen of the world.

I know that I don't look like the Americans who've previously spoken in this great city. The journey that led me here is improbable. My mother was born in the heartland of America, but my father grew up herding goats in Kenya. His father -- my grandfather -- was a cook, a domestic servant to the British.

At the height of the Cold War, my father decided, like so many others in the forgotten corners of the world, that his yearning -- his dream -- required the freedom and opportunity promised by the West. And so he wrote letter after letter to universities all across America until somebody, somewhere answered his prayer for a better life.

That is why I'm here. And you are here because you too know that yearning. This city, of all cities, knows the dream of freedom. And you know that the only reason we stand here tonight is because men and women from both of our nations came together to work, and struggle, and sacrifice for that better life.

Ours is a partnership that truly began sixty years ago this summer, on the day when the first American plane touched down at Templehof.

On that day, much of this continent still lay in ruin.Ê The rubble of this city had yet to be built into a wall. The Soviet shadow had swept across Eastern Europe, while in the West, America, Britain, and France took stock of their losses, and pondered how the world might be remade.

This is where the two sides met.Ê And on the twenty-fourth of June, 1948, the Communists chose to blockade the western part of the city. They cut off food and supplies to more than two million Germans in an effort to extinguish the last flame of freedom in Berlin.

The size of our forces was no match for the much larger Soviet Army. And yet retreat would have allowed Communism to march across Europe. Where the last war had ended, another World War could have easily begun. All that stood in the way was Berlin.

Ê And that's when the airlift began -- when the largest and most unlikely rescue in history brought food and hope to the people of this city.

The odds were stacked against success. In the winter, a heavy fog filled the sky above, and many planes were forced to turn back without dropping off the needed supplies. The streets where we stand were filled with hungry families who had no comfort from the cold.Ê

But in the darkest hours, the people of Berlin kept the flame of hope burning. The people of Berlin refused to give up. And on one fall day, hundreds of thousands of Berliners came here, to the Tiergarten, and heard the city's mayor implore the world not to give up on freedom. "There is only one possibility," he said. "For us to stand together united until this battle is wonÉThe people of Berlin have spoken. We have done our duty, and we will keep on doing our duty. People of the world: now do your dutyÉPeople of the world, look at Berlin!"

People of the world -- look at Berlin!

Look at Berlin, where Germans and Americans learned to work together and trust each other less than three years after facing each other on the field of battle.

Look at Berlin, where the determination of a people met the generosity of the Marshall Plan and created a German miracle; where a victory over tyranny gave rise to NATO, the greatest alliance ever formed to defend our common security.Ê

Look at Berlin, where the bullet holes in the buildings and the somber stones and pillars near the Brandenburg Gate insist that we never forget our common humanity.Ê

People of the world -- look at Berlin, where a wall came down, a continent came together, and history proved that there is no challenge too great for a world that stands as one.ÊÊ

Sixty years after the airlift, we are called upon again. History has led us to a new crossroad, with new promise and new peril. When you, the German people, tore down that wall -- a wall that divided East and West; freedom and tyranny; fear and hope -- walls came tumbling down around the world. From Kiev to Cape Town, prison camps were closed, and the doors of democracy were opened. Markets opened too, and the spread of information and technology reduced barriers to opportunity and prosperity. While the 20th century taught us that we share a common destiny, the 21st has revealed a world more intertwined than at any time in human history.

The fall of the Berlin Wall brought new hope. But that very closeness has given rise to new dangers -- dangers that cannot be contained within the borders of a country or by the distance of an ocean.ÊÊ

The terrorists of September 11th plotted in Hamburg and trained in Kandahar and Karachi before killing thousands from all over the globe on American soil.Ê

As we speak, cars in Boston and factories in Beijing are melting the ice caps in the Arctic, shrinking coastlines in the Atlantic, and bringing drought to farms from Kansas to Kenya.

Poorly secured nuclear material in the former Soviet Union, or secrets from a scientist in Pakistan could help build a bomb that detonates in Paris. The poppies in Afghanistan become the heroin in Berlin. The poverty and violence in Somalia breeds the terror of tomorrow. The genocide in Darfur shames the conscience of us all.

In this new world, such dangerous currents have swept along faster than our efforts to contain them. That is why we cannot afford to be divided. No one nation, no matter how large or powerful, can defeat such challenges alone. None of us can deny these threats, or escape responsibility in meeting them. Yet, in the absence of Soviet tanks and a terrible wall, it has become easy to forget this truth. And if we're honest with each other, we know that sometimes, on both sides of the Atlantic, we have drifted apart, and forgotten our shared destiny.

In Europe, the view that America is part of what has gone wrong in our world, rather than a force to help make it right, has become all too common. In America, there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe's role in our security and our future. Both views miss the truth -- that Europeans today are bearing new burdens and taking more responsibility in critical parts of the world; and that just as American bases built in the last century still help to defend the security of this continent, so does our country still sacrifice greatly for freedom around the globe.

Yes, there have been differences between America and Europe. No doubt, there will be differences in the future. But the burdens of global citizenship continue to bind us together. A change of leadership in Washington will not lift this burden. In this new century, Americans and Europeans alike will be required to do more -- not less. Partnership and cooperation among nations is not a choice; it is the one way, the only way, to protect our common security and advance our common humanity.Ê

That is why the greatest danger of all is to allow new walls to divide us from one another. The walls between old allies on either side of the Atlantic cannot stand. The walls between the countries with the most and those with the least cannot stand. The walls between races and tribes; natives and immigrants; Christian and Muslim and Jew cannot stand. These now are the walls we must tear down.Ê

We know they have fallen before. After centuries of strife, the people of Europe have formed a Union of promise and prosperity. Here, at the base of a column built to mark victory in war, we meet in the center of a Europe at peace. Not only have walls come down in Berlin, but they have come down in Belfast, where Protestant and Catholic found a way to live together; in the Balkans, where our Atlantic alliance ended wars and brought savage war criminals to justice; and in South Africa, where the struggle of a courageous people defeated apartheid. Ê So history reminds us that walls can be torn down. But the task is never easy. True partnership and true progress requires constant work and sustained sacrifice. They require sharing the burdens of development and diplomacy; of progress and peace. They require allies who will listen to each other, learn from each other and, most of all, trust each other.Ê

That is why America cannot turn inward. That is why Europe cannot turn inward. America has no better partner than Europe. Now is the time to build new bridges across the globe as strong as the one that bound us across the Atlantic. Now is the time to join together, through constant cooperation, strong institutions, shared sacrifice, and a global commitment to progress, to meet the challenges of the 21st century. It was this spirit that led airlift planes to appear in the sky above our heads, and people to assemble where we stand today. And this is the moment when our nations -- and all nations -- must summon that spirit anew.

This is the moment when we must defeat terror and dry up the well of extremism that supports it. This threat is real and we cannot shrink from our responsibility to combat it. If we could create NATO to face down the Soviet Union, we can join in a new and global partnership to dismantle the networks that have struck in Madrid and Amman; in London and Bali; in Washington and New York. If we could win a battle of ideas against the communists, we can stand with the vast majority of Muslims who reject the extremism that leads to hate instead of hope.

This is the moment when we must renew our resolve to rout the terrorists who threaten our security in Afghanistan, and the traffickers who sell drugs on your streets. No one welcomes war. I recognize the enormous difficulties in Afghanistan. But my country and yours have a stake in seeing that NATO's first mission beyond Europe's borders is a success. For the people of Afghanistan, and for our shared security, the work must be done. America cannot do this alone. The Afghan people need our troops and your troops; our support and your support to defeat the Taliban and al Qaeda, to develop their economy, and to help them rebuild their nation. We have too much at stake to turn back now.

This is the moment when we must renew the goal of a world without nuclear weapons. The two superpowers that faced each other across the wall of this city came too close too often to destroying all we have built and all that we love. With that wall gone, we need not stand idly by and watch the further spread of the deadly atom. It is time to secure all loose nuclear materials; to stop the spread of nuclear weapons; and to reduce the arsenals from another era. This is the moment to begin the work of seeking the peace of a world without nuclear weapons.

This is the moment when every nation in Europe must have the chance to choose its own tomorrow free from the shadows of yesterday. In this century, we need a strong European Union that deepens the security and prosperity of this continent, while extending a hand abroad. In this century -- in this city of all cities -- we must reject the Cold War mind-set of the past, and resolve to work with Russia when we can, to stand up for our values when we must, and to seek a partnership that extends across this entire continent.

This is the moment when we must build on the wealth that open markets have created, and share its benefits more equitably. Trade has been a cornerstone of our growth and global development. But we will not be able to sustain this growth if it favors the few, and not the many. Together, we must forge trade that truly rewards the work that creates wealth, with meaningful protections for our people and our planet. This is the moment for trade that is free and fair for all.

This is the moment we must help answer the call for a new dawn in the Middle East. My country must stand with yours and with Europe in sending a direct message to Iran that it must abandon its nuclear ambitions. We must support the Lebanese who have marched and bled for democracy, and the Israelis and Palestinians who seek a secure and lasting peace. And despite past differences, this is the moment when the world should support the millions of Iraqis who seek to rebuild their lives, even as we pass responsibility to the Iraqi government and finally bring this war to a close.

This is the moment when we must come together to save this planet. Let us resolve that we will not leave our children a world where the oceans rise and famine spreads and terrible storms devastate our lands. Let us resolve that all nations -- including my own -- will act with the same seriousness of purpose as has your nation, and reduce the carbon we send into our atmosphere. This is the moment to give our children back their future. This is the moment to stand as one.

And this is the moment when we must give hope to those left behind in a globalized world. We must remember that the Cold War born in this city was not a battle for land or treasure. Sixty years ago, the planes that flew over Berlin did not drop bombs; instead they delivered food, and coal, and candy to grateful children. And in that show of solidarity, those pilots won more than a military victory. They won hearts and minds; love and loyalty and trust -- not just from the people in this city, but from all those who heard the story of what they did here.

Now the world will watch and remember what we do here -- what we do with this moment. Will we extend our hand to the people in the forgotten corners of this world who yearn for lives marked by dignity and opportunity; by security and justice? Will we lift the child in Bangladesh from poverty, shelter the refugee in Chad, and banish the scourge of AIDS in our time?

Will we stand for the human rights of the dissident in Burma, the blogger in Iran, or the voter in Zimbabwe? Will we give meaning to the words "never again" in Darfur?Ê

Will we acknowledge that there is no more powerful example than the one each of our nations projects to the world? Will we reject torture and stand for the rule of law? Will we welcome immigrants from different lands, and shun discrimination against those who don't look like us or worship like we do, and keep the promise of equality and opportunity for all of our people?

People of Berlin -- people of the world -- this is our moment. This is our time.Ê

I know my country has not perfected itself. At times, we've struggled to keep the promise of liberty and equality for all of our people. We've made our share of mistakes, and there are times when our actions around the world have not lived up to our best intentions.

But I also know how much I love America. I know that for more than two centuries, we have strived -- at great cost and great sacrifice -- to form a more perfect union; to seek, with other nations, a more hopeful world. Our allegiance has never been to any particular tribe or kingdom -- indeed, every language is spoken in our country; every culture has left its imprint on ours; every point of view is expressed in our public squares. What has always united us -- what has always driven our people; what drew my father to America's shores -- is a set of ideals that speak to aspirations shared by all people: that we can live free from fear and free from want; that we can speak our minds and assemble with whomever we choose and worship as we please.

Those are the aspirations that joined the fates of all nations in this city. Those aspirations are bigger than anything that drives us apart. It is because of those aspirations that the airlift began. It is because of those aspirations that all free people -- everywhere -- became citizens of Berlin. It is in pursuit of those aspirations that a new generation -- our generation -- must make our mark on history.

People of Berlin -- and people of the world -- the scale of our challenge is great. The road ahead will be long. But I come before you to say that we are heirs to a struggle for freedom. We are a people of improbable hope. Let us build on our common history, and seize our common destiny, and once again engage in that noble struggle to bring justice and peace to our world.

rapunzel

Geez, if 6th Gen is right and that park is a mile long, that crowd stretched a mile back? Unbelievable.

6thGen

The UK Times wrote it, not me. Damn, the GOP really, really needs to get this guy away from the teleprompter.

Chickpea

Thanks for posting!!

cp

why did all three nighly news anchors run over there with him?

singinchicken

Here's an interesting observation from a local news guy (I'm paraphrasing)...
In France, Britain, and Germany, Obama is the clear choice if the people of these countries could vote. A few months back a research center did some polling in Europe and found that 58% of Europeans want a weaker America which is about the margin of Obama's preference. So, how would you like to have this conversation with somebody from over there...
"Would you like the United States to be weaker or stronger."

"Weaker."

"Who do you support, then, for president?"

"Barack Obama"

Hmmmmmm.......

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goodwitch58

Ratings.

__________________

"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

rapunzel

Because John McCain attacked him for not having gone to Iraq, and challenged him to leave the country. It's traditional for the nominees to do that in the period after they clinch the nomination. McCain did. The Democratic primaries went on for too long, and Obama was into the summer campaign season before he clinched. I don't think the McCain camp expected Obama to take the risk of leaving the country this far along in the campaign season. If he did, they expected to be able to dominate news cycles while Obama was out of the country.

The tactic backfired, and McCain's making an issue of a visit to Iraq insured it would be a big news event.

traderx

The test of Obama's success with this trip will be in the poll numbers. The most recent poll I read was Obama 45%, McCain 42%. Despite the legions of press and Obama being in the global spotlight, his numbers have not yet improved. The trip, of course, could backfire on him. It will be interesting to see how the French react to Obama's speech.

LuciferSam

This should be the new republican symbol:

Attached Images

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SWGB

I find it hysterical that McCain's camp (see other thread about how bad they are) decided to have him appear in front of a German restaurant.

Wrinkled flags, bad backdrops, yeah his campaign is just gearing up for some major debacles.

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goodwitch58

...and don't forget having him appear with Daddy Bush yesterday, just when he is trying to say he is not McBush!

__________________

"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

6thGen

From the McCain camp:

"While Barack Obama took a premature victory lap today in the heart of Berlin, proclaiming himself a 'citizen of the world,' John McCain continued to make his case to the American citizens who will decide this election. Barack Obama offered eloquent praise for this country, but the contrast is clear. John McCain has dedicated his life to serving, improving and protecting America. Barack Obama spent an afternoon talking about it. "

Mango

What's so wrong with being a citizen of this world?

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scooterbug44

With apologies to Miss Kitty: MEOW!!!

__________________
"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

6thGen

A few more emails to NRO. Senator, you are no Jack Kennedy (that's from me).

"And so Obama came to Berlin to build up his image on national security. If only appearances matter, then he did himself some good. The substance of his remarks was different. He credited the 1948 Berlin Airlift to international cooperation. “It was this spirit that led airlift planes to appear in the sky above our heads,” he said, as if some global vibe called aircraft from the vasty deep. Actually, it was Harry Truman. As Elizabeth Spalding recounts in The First Cold Warrior, 'At first, Truman was almost alone in thinking that an airlift would work as an effective response to the Soviets.'

Truman made a tough, risky decision. That’s what presidents do. Obama did not acknowledge this point. He didn’t even mention Truman’s name."




"'But in the darkest hours, the people of Berlin kept the flame of hope burning. The people of Berlin refused to give up. ….' - in reference to the Berlin airlift period.

Why did the people of Berlin keep the flame of hope burning? They did because they believed that America would not abandon them despite the hardship and risk associated with the flights, that’s why.

This from a man who was desperate to abandon Iraqis at the very moment that they were in their darkest hours. If Iraq is any indication, he would have abandoned Berlin.

He has some chutzpah to even mention the benefits of fortitude in a speech."

6thGen

I really hope I'm missing something here, but Obama cancelled his trip to Rammestein AFB to shake a few more German hands. Rammestein sees every US soldier injured in Iraq and Afghanistan. GQ had a great article on it last month. Uneffingbelievable, but I'm sure the camp has a lame excuse.

traderx

Here's the AP story on the cancellation. There has to more to this story than we are being told. The reason Obama offers for aborting his trip were known well in advance of the planning phase of his trip.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

SWGB

So if he visits you'd bash him for using wounded service members as a campaign ploy, and if he doesn't then he's dissing them? Seems to me it's a no win with you guys.

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traderx

No, you're wrong. I would have applauded him for visiting solders, especially wounded soldiers. There is no better gift to a soldier lying in a hospital bed than a supportive visitor from the US.

How do you feel about Obama cancelling his trip to visit the soldiers?

He had time to meet with Chancellor Merkel, to addess thousands of Germans in the street and he even had time to visit a Ritz-Carlton to workout. This decision will come back to haunt him.

Beemn

You all want to pay lip service to vets, but you don't want to be one! Getting us out of the mire means more to the soldiers than another photo op! Being republican, and therefore probably not an ARMY or marine vet, you wouldn't understand!

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Defend our country..... Fire the republicans!

goodwitch58

Andrea Mitchell, NBC, who is traveling with Obama, reported that the Pentagon persuaded him it would be inappropriate. He said he had visited troops in Iraq and Afghanistan...

Perhaps that was okay because it was a congressional visit; the Berlin portion was strictly a campaign trip.

__________________

"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

Mango

Excellent point.

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traderx

And the way you know I am not a vet is..........how?

And to add to your enlightenment, I am also not a Republican.

6thGen

If you can provide a reference to where I've bashed him for visiting Iraq and Afghanistan, that'd be a start before you start saying I'd bash him for visiting wounded vets.

Beemn,
Ask all of the vets you know if they prefer Obama's plan on Bush's and McCain's plan and get back to me. While you are at it, take a look at which way vets and service members vote, since you said Republicans couldn't possibly be vets or service members. Use an exclamation point for every sentence (as above) if you like when you respond. Thanks in advance.

elgordoboy

So are you a vet?

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Haters gonna hate, Ballers gonna ball

hnooe

To be a Citizen of this World, well, it's , its...just uh, um, totally anti -American is all. Like Rush Limbaugh said just today ..it might even be treason, uh, like that Fonda girl, you know

The next thing at'll happen is you will be hypnotized into believing in global warming climate change, or worse, you'll want one of them Dutch windmills in your back yard or something like that!

elgordoboy

When America is no longer feared or hated its hegemony will be at an end and many "conservatives" (if I must label) realize and fear this, so America being reviled means we are still on top. Some days I disagree with them and some days I do not.

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Haters gonna hate, Ballers gonna ball

traderx

Yes, I come from a long line of veterans on my Dad's side.

Margarita

Thank you for your service and for your posts on this message board.

rapunzel

Come on, people, traderx is from Columbus and used to work with my dad. He's a good guy. Obama's gonna grow on him. I just know it!

Okay, maybe not. Still....

Was there anything in the speech of substance that anyone found objectionable or truly great?

I liked that he challenged NATO to provide more help in Afghanistan. I also like the renewed call to move away from nuclear weapons...I thought that was pretty brave politically (back home). I also thought the writing and the historical references were moving.

I also have to give credit to the guys on the right for not implying the Kenyan goat herder calls from the Kenyan students near the stage were Muslim chanting. At the time, I cringed thinking that would be the first thing someone bashed. I'm glad that everyone seems to be above that cheap shot. I thought it was great timing. He smiled at relaxed after that.

30ashopper

I am a little unnerved about about all this new global world order talk. There is just something I don't trust about this guy. I'm not convinced he has our best interests at heart.

hnooe

Good point, and understood...I don't think of it as America's needing to be "feared"..I would say we are losing (have lost) a lot of respect in the last 8 years--that is a REAL weakness, and as dangerous as an over-streched military.

hnooe

I am totally thrilled with traderx's posts, he adds intelligent balance, and I very much enjoy reading his point of view on subjects, always!

goodwitch58

I think he had the proper balance of pride and humility...IMO what we need to move away from the "cowboy" approach of the last eight years.
I am not surprised that he would not make huge policy statements or requests in that venue.
I also liked his approach to the idea of a global world...and that we all are "partners" whether by design or default. It is a different way of looking at the world--and I believe many people, especially young people, no matter where they live, understand that we have already moved to this new world, whether we completely understand it or not.

He has a broader vision and a wider approach to solving problems. He looks forward, not back. And, while it may be risky and a bit scary to some or many, IMO it is a better strategy than more of the same.

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

rapunzel

It was nice to see people waving American flags in another country, especially since they weren't on fire.

elgordoboy

Been reading too much of the Left Behind series?

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Haters gonna hate, Ballers gonna ball

30ashopper

Haven't read that elgordo, but from the description on Wikipedia I don't think I'd enjoy it. It's just that any time someone starts talking about what's best for the world and how that should supersede what's best for the country, I get nervous. Where should our interests lie? Should we place the good of all countries above the good of our own, or should helping other nations take a back seat to the self preservation of our own ideology? I think taking the former approach ends up decreasing our ability to have an impact because our idiology is what drives us in a direction that allows us to help.

rapunzel

Ah, the old Machiavellian question -- is it better to be feared or loved?

I had to think on that one a while, because I know what you are saying. Honestly, though, what I felt when watching the speech was America's "we will not go gently into that good night" moment. We will not go the way of the British empire, and every empire before. We will not be fat and happy and smug and forget our ideals. We will lead, we will be a beacon of light.

He drew more than 200,000 Germans to hear him speak, to cheer him, to cheer our bedrock ideals. He drew more people than any German or European politician could have.

Contrast that to Bush's trip. We weren't feared, we were jeered. It was the beginning of the end of our time as a world leader....yesterday Germans showed this is the man they view as the potential next leader of the free world. Bush hasn't led the free world, he's alienated it.

jdarg

I agree -I don't see how having good, respectful, working relationships with other countries is a bad thing.

No kidding. It was refreshing to see people applaud someone from the USA!

goodwitch58

JDarg, I agree with you; but I know there are many out there who say he is too risky...55% according to one poll I read...

I think the risk is worth it; especially if we have good, respectful relationships with other countries...and, especially if we are doing something different than what we have had for the last 8 years.

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell