Draper Lake is getting full. Somebody tried digging it out over Christmas right in between two signs saying it was against the law. It was about a 50 yard run. All they got was a trickle, but then the 8 of us who walked down to the lake started filling it back in much to their chargrin...
It never did open...
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What a wasteful tragedy. With storm and low approaching, the lake could have possibly opened on its own tonight saving our precious county and state dollars for other uses. Do we know how much money was spent last year? Do you have more pictures. Looks like that fence will soon add to the litter of the lake and gulf. Odd that it is allowed to be there. Can't tell you how many times something in that area ends up in the lake and gulf. Thanks for the video. Perhaps this opening with storm tonight will take out enough sand to the west that this will be the last false opening forever.
Last edited by DuneLaker; 01-06-2009 at 06:59 PM.
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It wasn't quite the roar of water as in the past. In fact the lake level only dropped about a foot. Last time it was a little more drastic. I think mother nature is once again taking care of herself and just closing the outfall herself until she's ready.
If you ask me, they are micro-managing the lake level. I've seen it MUCH higher. Whoever is calling the county must have some unrealistic expectations about keeping it at a constant level. There seems to be no judgement exercised, just call and it will be opened.
Who are the people who are constantly agitating to get it open? Maybe we could buy them some prunes or explain that it's a lake, not a channel to the ocean.
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If you ask me, they are micro-managing the lake level. I've seen it MUCH higher. Whoever is calling the county must have some unrealistic expectations about keeping it at a constant level. There seems to be no judgement exercised, just call and it will be opened.
What kills me is it's the same people that get all excited over the sand dumping issue. Instead of letting mother nature take care of herself they then have to take more man made action and it's only causing more problems. I've been around the lake and can't figure out who's house was affected by the latest high water.
If it's a septic issue I feel, as many do, that the money spent to open the outfall should be spent on connecting folks to the sewer so the level is not an issue. As I walked down to see what had been done there were two county trucks, a semi truck, and a back hoe. I would imagine this is quite a bit of waste to lower the lake 1 foot.
My husband reminded me last night about the WIN(Whip Inflation Now) buttons we wore during the Ford administration. Maybe we could wear some LTLA(Leave The Lake Alone) buttons
Sounds fun, but since I see you are up early this morning by your post time, be sure to go out right now and see the moonset. Its reflection in Eastern Lake will be awesome.
My husband reminded me last night about the WIN(Whip Inflation Now) buttons we wore during the Ford administration. Maybe we could wear some LTLA(Leave The Lake Alone) buttons
WIN...A blast from the past!
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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.
The Lake will never bust out naturally in a robust way because of the sheer amount of sand that has acrued since hurricane Dennis. Most of the problem is that Dennis pushed a majority of the 500 cubic yards of sand barrier deposited in 2005 into the lakeside mouth of the inlet. This has caused any outbreak, whether manmade or natural , to be severely restricted, and hence, the inlet will never bust out with enough gusto to "repair" itself.
The two issues are (1) the inability of the lake to break out naturally, with enough gusto to insure saltwater backflow, has damaged the ecology of the lake drastically in the space of less than two years. (2) the inability of the lake to break out naturally has forced the DEP to establish a trigger point determined by them that they deemed the point where the lake height is affecting public safety and well being.
The people of the lake who have been working strongly toward correcting this problem feel that removing the sandbar from the mouth of the inlet, that has been obstructing the flow since Dennis, would allow it to flow better.
All of you who cry about let nature do it's thing... where were you when 500 cubic feet of sand barrier was deposited in 2005. You people are a bunch of hypocrits.
If left alone, the chances of it opening in a robust way is highly likely. The premature openings hurt this opportunity every time it happens, in addition to being a huge financial drain on the county. There have been sand barriers on this lake and others for decades. If anything, those digging out the lake with abandon in the immediate years preceeding 2005 caused some if not most of any problems the lake might have experienced. You've got to get over blaming one event in 2005 for everything. We weren't anywhere. We were watching in horror and dismay from right here. Hurricane Ivan in 2004 had opened the lake up very nicely and folks had the county come in and push a great deal of sand around and blocked the lake from its natural path. Talk about some huge piles of sand around the outfall.
What manmade sandbarriers have been dumped on Eastern Lake Inlet in the last fifty years other than the one in 2005??? The County did no such digging until the inlet was completely erased after Dennis. Please get your facts straight. Do you not see the sandbar in the mouth of the inlet that has not been here in fifty years?
I think people need to stop messing w/ the lake so it can fix itself. Amazing how it managed to survive for so many years w/o us digging it out all the time.
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"Chemicals should not be innocent until proven guilty."
I think people need to stop messing w/ the lake so it can fix itself. Amazing how it managed to survive for so many years w/o us digging it out all the time.
Its amazing how well it managed to survive for so many years before 500 yards of filldirt was put in it's path. Duh.
If left alone, the chances of it opening in a robust way is highly likely. The premature openings hurt this opportunity every time it happens, in addition to being a huge financial drain on the county. There have been sand barriers on this lake and others for decades. If anything, those digging out the lake with abandon in the immediate years preceeding 2005 caused some if not most of any problems the lake might have experienced. You've got to get over blaming one event in 2005 for everything. We weren't anywhere. We were watching in horror and dismay from right here. Hurricane Ivan in 2004 had opened the lake up very nicely and folks had the county come in and push a great deal of sand around and blocked the lake from its natural path. Talk about some huge piles of sand around the outfall.
Please show me photographic proof that there has been man-made sand barriers in front of Eastern or any other lake before 2005. Please show me photographic proof the County "messed" with the inlet before Hurricane Dennis.
Please show me photographic proof that there has been man-made sand barriers in front of Eastern or any other lake before 2005. Please show me photographic proof the County "messed" with the inlet before Hurricane Dennis.
I do show them to people who are courteous, open and interested and when I have the time. My video and picture files on this topic are massive. Until then, you will just have to take my word for it or talk to a number of other people who have been around this lake over 50 years. Some are not on this board and do not care to take part in these contentious discussions.
I didn't mean to seem discourteous to anyone. I am trying to get information to all of you so that everyone can know what the situation is. For three years, visitors have asked me what's wrong with Eastern Lake. I try to explain it without resorting to slogans like "politics and apathy". In the 45 years before the sand barrier was deposited, the lake was opened mechanically perhaps five times. In the three years since the sand barrier, it has had to be opened mechanically maybe ten times. You can make your own inference from that. Here is some of my photographic information. I'd be happy to see anyone else's.
I didn't mean to seem discourteous to anyone. I am trying to get information to all of you so that everyone can know what the situation is. For three years, visitors have asked me what's wrong with Eastern Lake. I try to explain it without resorting to slogans like "politics and apathy". In the 45 years before the sand barrier was deposited, the lake was opened mechanically perhaps five times. In the three years since the sand barrier, it has had to be opened mechanically maybe ten times. You can make your own inference from that. Here is some of my photographic information. I'd be happy to see anyone else's.
Well you know, Lake View Too, you are just wrong. The county was already pursuing a "no notice" permit for Eastern Lake, along with Western, Alligator and Oyster Lakes, when the hurricanes came along in 2005. You can verify this several ways. Check with the county, the DEP or the Herald Breeze files. And why was the county seeking a permit to allow them to dig out the lake without having to fool around with a DEP permit every time? Because it was already an issue when Worth Williams came along with the sand piles. People were already trying to control the lake level and the salinity and the outlet's path.
I've looked at your pictures and I don't see your point. Over time, and by time I mean decades, many decades, the lake outlet has changed course, the salinity and the ecology of the lake has shifted many times, and storms have brought in huge sand berms and then eventually removed them. It is only lately, and by lately I mean like the lifetimes of people living around the lake now, that all this shifting and changing has been considered inconvenient and therefore in need of "management."
Have you driven over the Camp Creek bridge lately? All the dune lakes have filled up. All of them have had lots of sand piled up at the outlets.
The only thing that is "wrong" with Eastern Lake is that people won't leave it alone.
Lake View Too everytime this issue comes up you blame the entire issue on Worth Williams and his sand. In addition you act as though the lake is supposed to maintain a constant level and salinity level. Those two goals seem to be most peoples stumbling blocks. It's like getting mad when the temperature isn't reaching 80 degrees everyday and blaming controlled burning.
As to your comment that the ecosystem of the lake has been harmed, please show me proof. You state that the salinity levels are not correct, however the crabs in the lake seem to be as plentiful as ever. Crabs cannot survive outside of a brackish (that's partial salt water) conditions. In this instance I am referring to the common blue crab so don't bother finding articles about fresh water crabs.
You state that the lake cannot break out on it's own. This is a baseless statement. Had the county waited just 24 hours it would have broken of it's own accord. I am currently watching the outfall for Deer lake which is close to breaking open as well. It is not affecting any of the homes on Deer lake and will open when it's good and ready.
All of the "facts" that you present don't pan out or make sense. The interesting thing is that anytime humans attempt to "correct" nature by interfering again it only makes things worse. The lake must be left alone to correct itself. Everyone seems so concerned about the amount of sand in front of the outfall and yet no one on your side of the fence ever seems to want the dune fencing installed directly in the path of the old outfall removed. This simply causes even more sand to build up.
I've got news for you, the lake will correct itself in time, but you have to give it time. Everyone who is for opening of the lake is guilty of a gotta have it right now attitude. They can't wait for the lake to open naturally not because of concerns over helping the lake, but by a selfish need to have their dock above water or the fear that invasive and unnatural grass could be killed. Please post an example outside of a tropical event (that's hurricane or tropical storm) that someone's house was flooded due to the lake not opening.
If everyone is so concerned that lake be "restored" to it's original outfall why doesn't the county apply to the DEP to do just that, instead of a permit to simply open the lake everytime someone's petunia garden is threatened? Based on surveys and thousands of pictures of the outfall prior to the great sand dumping incident the county could restore it. If it closes after that then too bad it might just be mother natures decision.
"The interesting thing is that anytime humans attempt to correct nature they end up causing more problems." SWGB , I agree completely with your sentiment. Isn't this what happened when Worth Williams deposited the sand? Is it OK for him to "correct nature"? Listen folks, I do not remember anybody trying to get a "no notice" permit before Ivan. There was no problem as evidenced by my current photo(the day before Ivan) The simple fact is there have been no man-made sand barriers deposited in the Eastern Lake floodplain since the beginning of time and just maybe this event has caused a great big problem. Doesn't karma suggest that removing 500 cubic yards of sand might make things "right"?
Micromanaging the lake outfall is not what anybody wants, but many of us think that if we don't restore the mouth of the inlet," the lagoon" as I like to call it, to the state it was in for the 45 years before Dennis, then there will forever be problems. I certainly don't like the fact that people were allowed to build too close to the lake (some of them four decades ago, some of them just years ago) but I consider them my neighbors and I wouln't wish their homes to be undermined just because well meaning people want nature to take care of things.
A permit to manage the lake was applied for prior to Hurricane Ivan on May 10, 2004. The permit was issued on September 11, 2008. Click the dates to see the files.
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Thanks, BeachSiO2.
Lake View Too, the county did not just wake up one morning in the spring of 2004 and say, oh, let's go to all the time, trouble and expense of getting a permit to open Eastern Lake. They responded to people who thought the lake and its outlet ought to be managed to achieve a certain state. I've looked at your latest picture, and it is pretty. But you know, I still don't see your point in posting it. You cannot take a snapshot in time and say this is how a coastal dune lake ought to be. They don't work like that. You need to take a longer view of things and realize that over the many, many years, and that would be centuries, that the lakes have been around, they sometimes look one way and sometimes another. They may host blue crabs, or they may not. They are dynamic, changing systems.
The Lake will never bust out naturally in a robust way because of the sheer amount of sand that has acrued since hurricane Dennis. Most of the problem is that Dennis pushed a majority of the 500 cubic yards of sand barrier deposited in 2005 into the lakeside mouth of the inlet. This has caused any outbreak, whether manmade or natural , to be severely restricted, and hence, the inlet will never bust out with enough gusto to "repair" itself.
The two issues are (1) the inability of the lake to break out naturally, with enough gusto to insure saltwater backflow, has damaged the ecology of the lake drastically in the space of less than two years. (2) the inability of the lake to break out naturally has forced the DEP to establish a trigger point determined by them that they deemed the point where the lake height is affecting public safety and well being.
The people of the lake who have been working strongly toward correcting this problem feel that removing the sandbar from the mouth of the inlet, that has been obstructing the flow since Dennis, would allow it to flow better.
All of you who cry about let nature do it's thing... where were you when 500 cubic feet of sand barrier was deposited in 2005. You people are a bunch of hypocrits.
perhaps the state could buy out the lakefront hypocrites
"The interesting thing is that anytime humans attempt to correct nature they end up causing more problems." SWGB , I agree completely with your sentiment. Isn't this what happened when Worth Williams deposited the sand? Is it OK for him to "correct nature"? Listen folks, I do not remember anybody trying to get a "no notice" permit before Ivan. There was no problem as evidenced by my current photo(the day before Ivan) The simple fact is there have been no man-made sand barriers deposited in the Eastern Lake floodplain since the beginning of time and just maybe this event has caused a great big problem. Doesn't karma suggest that removing 500 cubic yards of sand might make things "right"?
Micromanaging the lake outfall is not what anybody wants, but many of us think that if we don't restore the mouth of the inlet," the lagoon" as I like to call it, to the state it was in for the 45 years before Dennis, then there will forever be problems. I certainly don't like the fact that people were allowed to build too close to the lake (some of them four decades ago, some of them just years ago) but I consider them my neighbors and I wouln't wish their homes to be undermined just because well meaning people want nature to take care of things.
Once again I will tell you to let the issue of the sand dump go. You keep going back to that and you twisted my words.
I never stated that he was entitled to correct nature. I was simply stating that perhaps we shouldn't keep trying to correct it. You've got some great pictures of the outfall as it appeared at one time. Regardless of what someone did restoring the outfall to that picture probably wouldn't leave you happy in just a couple of years as it would change. It might even fill itself in. The point here is that it is a natural formation and should not be "managed".
You also seem to speak out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you pitch a fit that the sand dump has created an untenable problem and it was a horrible act against nature to put the sand there. Then in the same paragraph you state that opening the lake is great as some people completely ignored set backs and illegally built close to the lake. I don't care if you live on Eastern lake, Western lake, or Lake Michigan. When you build on a lake you should understand and inherit the risk that flooding is possible. To ignore that fact is just that ignorance.
A permit to manage the lake was applied for prior to Hurricane Ivan on May 10, 2004. The permit was issued on September 11, 2008. Click the dates to see the files.
I guess I was wrong about there being no problem before Ivan. I'm not denying there are people that were allowed to build too near the lake who are lobbying for this to protect their homes. I personally wish to restore the balance that was disrupted in 2005. I have never been in favor of the Trgger Point permit, but neither am I in favor of just letting the sand barrier bury the beauty of this place.
I guess I was wrong about there being no problem before Ivan. I'm not denying there are people that were allowed to build too near the lake who are lobbying for this to protect their homes. I personally wish to restore the balance that was disrupted in 2005. I have never been in favor of the Trgger Point permit, but neither am I in favor of just letting the sand barrier bury the beauty of this place.
Again you act as though the sand is concrete. It will eventually be sorted out by mother nature, but you will have to give it time it's not going to happen tomorrow.
A permit to manage the lake was applied for prior to Hurricane Ivan on May 10, 2004. The permit was issued on September 11, 2008. Click the dates to see the files.
I stand corrected. Apparently people that built too close to the lake were lobbying for the Trigger Point Permit before Ivan. I have never been in favor of the Trigger Point Permit. I simply want to restore the balance that existed before the events of 2005 so that the inlet will break out in it's own natural way. I suppose there is no way for us to achieve this anymore.
I stand corrected. Apparently people that built too close to the lake were lobbying for the Trigger Point Permit before Ivan. I have never been in favor of the Trigger Point Permit. I simply want to restore the balance that existed before the events of 2005 so that the inlet will break out in it's own natural way. I suppose there is no way for us to achieve this anymore.
I don't have a solution to the fact that people were allowed to build too close to the lake. Some of these houses were built over four decades ago. Again, I want to stress that I don't like the trigger point permit. It seems like restoring the lagoon ( a very minor move) would let the inlet work naturally and there would not be a need for the trigger point permit.
If any of you want to petition the county and DEP to recind the permit, I wouldn't be bothered by that, but it will simply bring a wave of lawsuits.
Folks, I have loved Eastern Lake Inlet since I was seven years old. While my logic may escape you (and me sometimes) it is coming from my heart.
Yeah, Miss Kitty, "blasts from the past" used to be what I had only learned about through history but anymore they're becoming things I actually lived. Damn, I'm getting old!
They do not need to be artificially opened. Let Mother Nature take care of these beautiful waters in her own time. The human race seems to think in a few thousand years they know everything about controlling the environment , from Dune Lakes, to global warming, to sun spots.
Let us worry about fixing the potholes in roads, trash on the street, cigarette butts on sidewalks and the economy. Leave the Dune Lakes to Mother Nature.
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