Kim, of the Walton Sun, told me that the ordinace was up for a vote soon so I called the county and here is what I know. On May 11 at the Courthouse Annex at 4:00 there will be a public meeting for the purpose of reviewing and commenting on the new Noise Ordinance before putting it to a BOARD vote. You will not have a vote so be there to make your opinion known before the vote. I am working on getting a copy today and anyone can get a copy from the Clerk's office. I will post if I can figure out how. I may have to email one of you to post it for us.

You Rock and Roll!

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

As much as I would like to take credit, they have been following this thread and found me in order to find some of you. Let's see what the new ordinance looks like. Hopefully this will be over. If not, CNN here we come.

They've got my number. The Kitty is right, ya'll rock! (we all knew this to be true)

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Get Outdoors!

we will be there on the 11th.....Thanks to all who have posted on here and made their voices heard....Hopefully this won't happen again and we can continue to help make Walton County a great place!....Steve and Sue (Coconut Radio)

I think this is long from over, because as I understand it, they were proposing adopting the Grayton Ordinance as the County-wide Ordinance because it worked so well.

My hope is that the County peeps read the numerous verdicts from higher Courts which state that the ordinance cannot be subjective, such as the one in Grayton. Google could be their friend.

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Other than David Kramer, no one will more than likely even realize what is going on. Why? Because these laws are passed all the time and not enforced north of the bay. One day that will change, and when it does, you will see the law go away, I imagine.

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yep!!!! He has his rights just like you do!!!

Drive by posters......ugh!


So his rights supersede my rights, eh?

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Whos opinion is it that it is working so well. Certainly not most of the folks around here.

Just replaced the ink cartridges in my printer so they might just get copies of any rulings that I happen upon while visiting my buddy, Google.

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WARNING: Things posted by this user may offend some people. All things posted above are the opinions of poster and not necessarily the opinions of this site..or anyone else for that matter. They might not even make sense or be suitable for children. Come to think of it, they might be unsuitable for adults or human consumption. Have a nice day.

Has the music resumed at Pandora's? I'd like to go back and will promise to use my inside voice, outside.

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

JodiFL, I'm not sure whose opinion it is that the Grayton Ordinance "works so well." I say that only because they are looking to it as the model. It probably "works well" for the enforcement, Code Enforcement is closed on the weekends and at night, and I'm sure the Sheriff's Office hates the idea of spending valuable money on training the Deputies to be certified in the use decibel meters, as well as responding to complaints of music and noise coming from entertainment businesses.

FYI - the search term which provided me with several court cases was "noise ordinance unconstitutional." (not in quotes) I'm sure you can find more Court rulings by opening your seach a bit.

I have prior obligations on this upcoming meeting date. Does anyone know who is spear-heading this group of "leaders" who are running this meeting and drafting the proposed ordinance? Please post here if you do, for those of us unable to attend. We'd love to also have their email addresses so that we all can write in.

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Not sure of my schedule at work yet but I would love to be there just to look around the crowd. I am sure that we would be able to find the person/persons that is/are making all the complaints in the crowd. Surely they wouldnt miss a chance like that to be vocal to the authorities. Hopefully I can be at this meeting and ask a few questions and show them a few rulings about vague noise ordinances. Maybe they will see that if they do adopt one that it better be a good one, even better than the Grayton one, and worded properly so that EVERYONE, including the sheriffs dept. can understand it.

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WARNING: Things posted by this user may offend some people. All things posted above are the opinions of poster and not necessarily the opinions of this site..or anyone else for that matter. They might not even make sense or be suitable for children. Come to think of it, they might be unsuitable for adults or human consumption. Have a nice day.

Yes it has....and from what I understand the bands have been playing outside too! This is not in defiance either, it is simply what Pandora's has been doing all along.....Seems they haven't had a call yet this week, but then again maybe the complainer is out-of-town, who knows? I was interviewed by the Walton Sun yesterday along with probably many others as to what happened on that Saturday night....I think getting this injustice out in the public eye is what it needs! Nobody wants to look bad, so maybe the powers that be will play by the rules from now on......Support your local venues!!!

I didn't know you had an inside voice!

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It's inside her head.

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Get Outdoors!

Well, that is music to my ears! I'll mosey on over!

...my peeps love it when I come down with laryngitis!

...so that's what is taking up all that space!

Hope to see a bunch of y'all at Pandora's this weekend!

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

Ok. Here is the proposed ordinance. It looks like they tried real hard to get this right but I see a few problems. The biggest in my opinion is the fact that the complaintant gets to be anonymous. I feel like we need to be able to verify the validity of the claim. Here it is. See what you think. MAY 11 at 4:00 at the courthouse annex. Be there to voice your opinion!

AN ORDINANCE OF WALTON COUNTY, FLORIDA; REPEALING ORDINANCES 1996-15 AND 1997-30 RELATING TO THE CONTROL AND ABATEMENT OF EXCESSIVE NOISE IN GRAYTON BEACH, CHAPARREL ESTATES, HIDDEN HARBORS, AND HOLIDAY SHORES; PROVIDING FOR AUTHORITY; PROVIDING FOR APPLICABILITY; PROVIDING DEFINITIONS; PROVIDING FOR GENERAL PROHIBITION; PROVIDING FOR MEASUREMENT OF NOISE; PROVIDING FOR VIOLATION PROCEDURES; PROVIDING FOR PENALTIES; PROVIDING FOR JUDICIAL CONSTRUCTION; SEVERABILITY; AND AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
WHEREAS, the Board of County Commissioners of Walton County (the “Board”) finds that excessive and unnecessary noise interferes with the quality of life and can interfere with the health, safety, and general welfare of the public; and

WHEREAS, in particular, excessive and unnecessary noise can cause adverse psychological and physiological effects on humans; and

WHEREAS, the Board finds it is in the best interests of the health, safety, and welfare of the people of Walton County to establish reasonable regulations for the abatement of excessive and unnecessary noise.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED by the Board of County Commissioners of Walton County, Florida that:

1. Repealer Clause: Walton County Ordinances 1996-15 and 1997-30, codified as Article V. Divisions 2 and 3 of the Walton County Code, is hereby repealed in its entirety.

2. A new Article V. Division 2 of the Walton County Code is hereby created to read:

DIVISION 2. COUNTY-WIDE

Section 9-136. Authority. The authority for the enactment of this Ordinance is Section 125.01, Florida Statutes, and the State Constitution.

Section 9-137. Applicability. This Ordinance shall be applied only to facilities and operations about which an affected person has lodged a complaint with an authorized enforcement agent or agency within the unincorporated areas of Walton County.

Section 9-138. Definitions. For the purpose of this ordinance, certain words and phrases used herein are defined as follows:
Noise shall mean any sounds or vibrations which annoy or disturb humans or cause or tend to cause adverse psychological effects on humans, and which may be harmful or injurious to the health or welfare of a reasonable person with normal sensibilities or unreasonably interfere with the normal conduct of life, use of property, or outdoor recreation.
Officer means a Walton County Sheriffs Department Officer or Walton County Code Enforcement Officer.
Person means any individual natural person, public or Private Corporation, firm, association, joint venture, partnership, or any other entity whatsoever or any combination of such, jointly and severally. Person shall include any owner, agent, or employee of a business establishment or other entity.
Plainly Audible means any noise that can be heard by a person using normal hearing faculties, at a distance of fifty (50)feet or more from the real property line of the source of the noise.
Real property line means an imaginary line along the ground surface, and its vertical plane extension, which separates the real property owned, rented or leased by one person from that owned, rented or leased by another person, excluding intrabuilding real property.

Section 9-139. General Prohibition. It shall be unlawful and a violation of this ordinance to make, continue or cause to be made or continued any noise disturbance which:
a. Produces or reproduces noise in a manner to be plainly audible between the hours of 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m., at a distance of fifty (50) feet or more from the real property line of the property from which the source of the noise is located; or

b. Produces or reproduces noise in a manner to be plainly audible within a fully enclosed single-family dwelling at any time at a distance of three hundred (300) feet or more from the real property line of the property from which the source of the noise is located. A single-family dwelling shall have all windows and doors securely closed in order to be considered fully enclosed.

Section 9-140. Measurement of Noise. A Walton County Sheriffs Department Officer or Walton County Code Enforcement Officer who hears a noise that is in violation of Section 9-139 shall measure the noise according to the following standards:

a. The primary means of detection shall be by means of the officer’s normal hearing faculties.

b. The officer must have a direct line of sight and hearing to the real property of the source of the noise so that the officer can readily identify the offending source of the noise and the distance involved. If the officer is unable to have a direct line of sight and hearing to the real property of the source of the noise, then the officer shall confirm the source of the noise by approaching the real property suspected of being the source of the noise until the officer is able to obtain a direct line of sight and hearing, and identify the identical or same noise that was heard at the place of original measurement of the noise.

Section 9-141. Exemptions. The following are exempt from the provisions of this Ordinance:

a. The unamplified human voice.
b. Railway locomotives or cars.
c. Bona fide agricultural equipment used for a bona fide agricultural purpose.
d. Maintenance of public facilities.
e. Law enforcement activities, including training.
f. Outdoor hunting or hunting sports. The discharge of firearms in rural areas in the normal course of legal hunting activities or customary shooting sports such as skeet, trap, and target shooting.
g. Emergency signals.
h. Refuse collection vehicles.
i. Organized athletic contests or sporting events.

Section 9-142. Violation procedures.

(1) Complaint procedures; warnings.
a. When a complaint is received, officer shall promptly investigate the charges. The person making the complaint will not be required to identify himself/herself and may remain anonymous.

b. When an officer determines that the noise emanating from a piece of property is in violation of Section 9-139, the officer shall issue an official warning to (1) the person or persons responsible for compliance with this ordinance and (2) the person or persons making the actual noise. The warning shall state the violation, shall advise the offenders to cease and desist the violation, and shall advise of the possible penalty if the person or persons fail to eliminate the noise or reduce the noise so that it is within permitted limits and is not plainly audible.

c. The person or persons receiving the warning shall have five (5) minutes to comply with the warning.


d. A warning issued under section 9-142(1)(b) is valid for a period of thirty (30) days, and such warning shall remain in effect against the offending person or persons for the same or similar type violations for a period of thirty (30) days.

(2) Arrest; termination of offending noise.
a. If the noise is not eliminated or reduced to allowable limits within five (5) minutes after the warning, or if the noise is abated after warning and then reoccurs within thirty (30) days, the person so warned and not complying shall be arrested for a violation of this ordinance and upon conviction shall be subject to the penalties designated in Section 9-143.

b. If an arrest is made, the officer shall have the power and authority to immediately terminate the cause of the offending noise, including prohibiting any further noise from musical instruments or mechanical or electronic sound-making devices or equipment for a period of twenty-four (24) hours.

(3) Joint and several responsibilities. The owner of the business, tenant/lessee of property, or a manager, overseer, agent, or any other person lawfully entitled to possess the property or manage the business premises from which the offending noise is emitted at the time the offending noise is emitted shall be jointly and severally liable for compliance with this ordinance and each shall be punished for its violation as shall the person or persons actually causing such noise. It shall not be a lawful defense to assert that some other person caused the noise. The lawful possessor, manager, or operator of the premises shall be responsible for operating or maintaining the premises in compliance with this ordinance shall be applied to such person or persons as well as to the person or persons actually causing the noise.

Section 9-143. Penalties.
a. All violations of this Ordinance shall be investigated, cited, processed, adjudicated and punished in the same manner as a misdemeanor, in accordance with F.S. §125.69. Upon conviction, a violator may be punished by a fine not to exceed $500.00 or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed 60 days, or by both fine and imprisonment, for each violation.
b. The imposition of a fine under this section shall not prevent the county or a private person from instituting a civil action at law for damages or injunctive relief in order to prevent or abate violations of this ordinance. A violation of this ordinance is declared to be a public nuisance.

Section 9-144. Judicial Construction. NO provision of this noise ordinance shall be construed to impair any common law or statutory cause of action, or legal remedy there from.

3. Should any word, phrase, sentence, or section of this ordinance be held by a court of competent jurisdiction to be illegal, void, unenforceable, or unconstitutional, then such shall be severed from this ordinance and the remainder of the ordinance shall remain in full force and effect.
4. This ordinance shall take effect as provided by law.



BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
OF WALTON COUNTY, FLORIDA

By:________________________________
Sara Comander, Chair
ATTEST:

________________________
Martha Ingle, Clerk of Court

If the complaint is not anonymous then that just furthers the neighbor vs. neighbor argument. How do you get around that when neighbors use these sort of ordinances to harass each other? I like the line of sight thing, the only house you can see from mine is my Mother's, yet the neighbor to the west of me had been operating some sort of manufacturing facility for years. Noise going on all hours of the day and night.

I wonder though if I can complain about the noise them silly cargo planes make flying over the house at all hours. They are really the only thing I hear and that is just cause they wake up the hounds.

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While I understand the reason not to dislcose the identity of the complaintent especially in the heat of the moment, I think the accused deserve the right to verify the validity of the complaint. The information should be available at least on a statistical level. Also, If I go to jail, do I not have the right to all information pertaining to my case? In other words, I don't want to perpetuate or aggrivate any situation. I want to be able to verify if the person who called really lives near the "disturbance" and if the complaint was justified. I have no personal problem with anyone who truly has a valid complaint. I do want to be sure that any complaint lodged is legitimate.

Yes you can complain about the planes but I don't think anything can be done. Not an amplified sound. I did notice that people talking is ok. I always wondered if the people on the porch at Salty Dog were the source of the offensive noise. I also realized that this ordinance is irrelevant since disturbing the peace applies very broadly and way outside of the ordinance. This is a tough problem to solve. That is why everyone should be at the meeting on May 11. It won't be easy but we will eventually get it settled.

Regarding that proposed ordinance, it seems to me that no tennis will be allowed after 10pm. I can hear tennis balls bouncing off rackets from distances much greater than 50ft.

Since everyone hears at different levels, I think enforcement of this ordinance wouldn't hold up in a Court.

Under "definitions," this is about as clear as mud: "Noise shall mean any sounds or vibrations which annoy or disturb humans or cause or tend to cause adverse psychological effects on humans, and which may be harmful or injurious to the health or welfare of a reasonable person with normal sensibilities or unreasonably interfere with the normal conduct of life, use of property, or outdoor recreation."

I'm totally confused, especially by the last part. Is this trying to say that outdoor recreation is exempt, or that I should be able to enjoy outdoor recreation without noise, or something else all together? Does this mean that I can legally play tennis after 10pm if someone can hear the stings hitting the ball from a distance greater than 50ft?

Again, all of the Court rulings which I've read regarding similar ordinances, rule in favor of the person(s) whom made the noise, because there is no precise measurement of noise recorded, thereby making the detection very unique per instance, depending on the officer's hearing who is responding to the complaint. The County can save some more money if they just googled the other cases. Also, are the officers going to get a survey of the subject property and use a tape measure to find the 50ft or more definition? Without a survey, how are they to know the property's boundary?

I have no clue about the "enclosed" house part of the proposed ordinance? Does this mean if one window is open, the Oridinance would not be enforced? What is the intent of this section?
It is still my non-legal opinion that the anonymity of the person reporting the incident is unConstituional. I think the language of the Founding Documents is fairly clear for all to understand.

One last note regarding the following exemption from the Ordinance:
"The unamplified human voice."

If this is true that the unamplified human voice is exempt, how is that fair? It seems to me that noise is noise, and it should make no difference in the types of noise, if the Ordinance is to be applied equally to all people. That in itself sounds unConstitutional to me. (what do I know? I'm not an attorney.) I think more people need to learn their protected rights, granted to us by the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.

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I have a problem with the "within 30 days" part. So, if a complaint is made, a warning given, the noise reduced or eliminated within 5 minutes, then 2 weeks later, another complaint on the same noise, then an arrest? The warning is valid for 30 days?

Sorry, I don't think a noise complaint justifies an arrest. Maybe a ticket, but not an arrest, IMO.

Also, is the complainant not required to identify himself? Even to the reporting officer?

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Get Outdoors!

Give 30atelevision a call too

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Do you have the buzz?
www.30abuzz.com

I also contacted the government and per Jason Catalano, Commisioner's Aide he said the best way to get involved was to attend the 2 public hearings required before this passes and bring concerns to the board. The next meeting is May 11th at 4PM in the South Walton Annex. That is the Monday after next.

I never did get a clear answer but it sounds like the complaintant does have to give their name but it can be kept from the public. I think that in certain cases the name can be revealed but, as I said, I did not yet get a clear answer on this. We need a way to distinguish legitimate complaints. Just to be clear, I have no problem with any one who has a legitimate complaint. Not knowing the source of the complaint makes it that much harder to find a compromise. Let's face it. People are going to jail and there is no clear rememdy. Even if we adopt a perfect noise ordinance, disturbing the peace is still a great big catch all that can put people in jail.

You guys better get busy cause one commissioner told me today they were pretty sure they would be voting in favor.

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The clear answer is found in the Founding Documents of our Country. It is very clear that a county does not have the authority to over-ride the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Amendment 6 in the Bill of Rights states:

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

(Violation of the noise ordinance is a criminal act, according to the proposed Ordinance:

Section 9-143. Penalties.
a. All violations of this Ordinance shall be investigated, cited, processed, adjudicated and punished in the same manner as a misdemeanor, in accordance with F.S. §125.69. Upon conviction, a violator may be punished by a fine not to exceed $500.00 or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed 60 days, or by both fine and imprisonment, for each violation.)

I'm not sure how the people who write these county ordinances skip the basics of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. I bet they flunked US History and US Gov't classes in high school. I'd also bet they cheated by copying other people's papers, because they sure seem to be simply copying other Counties' ordinances. WAKE UP, America!

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Has someone asked the county/court for that person's name?

Surprising to me that you think the Sun is the best source for real news - I have found that the posts on this board to be more timely, and more pithy -
Not that the Sun is that bad as community papers go - more and more however, community papers are places to sell ads to the folks that still read them for news, a dwindling but meaningfully sized lot.

Personally, I find it to be lacking in credibility based on my experience. But at least they present another side of things. Since Chilcutt is still recovering from his accident I have to use what little is available.

What I really do not understand is that this ordinance is going to be passed (hope not), for the main reason of dealing with a very small handful of offenders, not all of which are musicians. Then the whole county is going to be subject to another ordinance that is going to be selectively enforced, when we have laws on the books today that could solve all of this, if it can be solved.

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Guess Pandora's can bring in a slamming full band once every 30 days.....The complaintant will not have grounds to call the police if the smaller bands are playing......Just a thought.....

Well I guess that means if a local auditions for American idol, they better not make the top 3,of this gets passed LOL

You are wrong on some things That manager is not that young he has chilled it down alot since he took it over last spring. And it is manly one person that is calling and complaing I want say that person's name. And they got alot of complaints that gator from blue Orleans before he lost that so you need to get your facts togather before you go and dog a place. And it would be good for the community if we could just get people like you to just move so us locals can enjoy ourselves. With out being scared of not being able to have fun with out the cops showing up.

Us locals are the ones that got all of these crazy laws put on the books. So why should us locals not have to abide by them?

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Hey everyone, we will be there tomorrow along with many others to hopefully voice our opinions or at the very least show solidarity......Steve and I have written a song inspired by this situation and want to give it as a gift to all that support the live music scene......Please visit at myspace.com/coconutradioband....it is ironic that while playing this song at Pandora's friday night, the police showed up and sat in the parking lot......Hope they liked it! At any rate, please show up to the meeting at 4p and show your support.....And, thank you for all the involvement you have shown concerning this issue. On behalf of all the musicians, we appreciate you!!
As stated in Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary: de·moc·ra·cy 1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

I guess this would mean something except nothing in this country in the way of government is ruled by a democracy as a form of government. Once that basic tenet of society is realized, then you can come up with a political strategy to get things done.

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See you all there!

This noise ordinance is totally ridiculous. This is why everyone leaves Walton County to spend their money in Okaloosa and Bay Counties because of this ridiculous antiquated "ordinance". This is a resort community and if people can't get what they are looking for in the form of entertainment, they will quit coming, staying and spending their money. Music soothes the soul and sells the liquor (and food)! I was at a local sports bar recently on 98 listening to a rock/blues band playing and the Walton County Sheriff Deputy came in and threatened to take the owner (a woman) to jail if the band didn't shut down. It was 11:00 on a Sat. night. It ruined everyone's night, not to mention the business it cost the bar owners. Shame on you people. COMMISSIONER'S...WAKE UP.

I thought we Pledged Allegiance to "The Republic",

re⋅pub⋅lic

   /rɪˈpʌblɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-puhb-lik] Show IPA –noun 1.a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.2.any body of persons viewed as a commonwealth.3.a state in which the head of government is not a monarch or other hereditary head of state.4.(initial capital letter) any of the five periods of republican government in France. Compare First Republic, Second Republic, Third Republic, Fourth Republic, Fifth Republic.5.(initial capital letter, italics) a philosophical dialogue (4th century b.c.) by Plato dealing with the composition and structure of the ideal state.

Origin:
1595–1605; < F république, MF < L rēs pūblica, equiv. to rēs thing, entity + pūblica public


The Pledge of Allegiance

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.
In its original form it read:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added. At this time it read:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration. Today it reads:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Section 4 of the Flag Code states:

The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."

there you go, pissing in the soup again.

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click >> Filter your water instead of using bottled water << click

Well after listening to the meeting yesterday it seems to me that the main problem is the wedding partys being held in residential neighborhoods. I totally agree ... these people who are putting on these weddings are making a butt load of money turning a residential house into a commercial business at the expense of their neighbors ... I'd be pissed too. But who gets arrested???? Not the "Holyer than tho" beachfront "home" owners, the ones who are causing this whole problem.. no, it's some 22 year old kid trying to do a job at a club. I've been here since 1984 and it's always the same old thing... the beachfront home owners can do no wrong...when it comes to lights on the beach they refuse to cooperate for the sake of the turtles, they would rather see an endangered species baby's run over on 30A than turn off their frikin porch lights... its the same thing here with the noize... they have a good money making thing going with these wedding partys and the commissioners wont stop them because they don't want to upset them. Now they are going to pass this ordinance and squash the entire entertainment industry throughout the whole county instead of concentrating on the ones who are causing the problem in the first place. We have some great local talent here and it could be a great asset to the community and local economy. People don't want to set around and watch TV when their on vacation... they can do that at home!!!! They want to go out and hear a good live band krankin out the tunes...!!! The idea of arresting our young people over this is disgusting.

I think everyone is leaving Walton County to go play Goofy Golf and eat at McDonald's. Wake up and we can enjoy that sales tax also.

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The Miramar Beach McDonald's (in Walton County) is about 15 minutes from Grayton. That is close enough for anyone who is really dying for a square of fried pressed fish mush or a Big Mac. Fast food adds nothing to our community except obesity, minimum wage jobs and litter while live music, done in a manner that doesn't disturb the peace, adds life and character.

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Amen...

This is the most rediculous issue I've heard of...these people complaining need to get a life, the music at Pandora's isn't offensive, I would love to be able to sit out back and hear a free concert on the weekends. Get a Life complainers!

Just because you like music does not mean everyone else does.

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Wouldnt it make sense to not locate your home next to somewhere where you KNOW there is going to be music? Why does this seem like common sense to me?

Okay those people are pretty dumb. But what about those where the homes were their first? Then someone comes in, buys a huge monster house, then turns it into a wedding chapel.

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I think everybody is in agreement on the whole wedding house thing. It's the inconsistencies in how complaints are dealt with when it comes to long standing bars / restaurants that have always had entertainment. Let's have one discussion at a time...

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OK, I am finally going to weigh in on this topic. Here is my opinion:

As a long-time resident of Grayton and Seagrove (is 50 years as a part- and full-time resident long enough?), I believe that this issue has nothing to do with “saving the music” and it has nothing to do with anyone wanting to put musicians out of business. I would bet that most of the complainers (whether they are complaining about loud music, loud crowds, loud dogs barking, or whatever) enjoy live music, just like everyone else. I don’t think that anyone wants to run live music out of South Walton so please, stop panicking.

Rather, this issue has everything to do with when and how live music is presented. It also has everything to do with how to be a good neighbor.

When a commercial establishment chooses to locate itself in a Neighborhood Preservation area (such as Grayton, Blue Mountain, Seagrove, Dune Allen), those commercial establishments have a duty to coexist peacefully with the neighbors. The establishments that I have read about, Pandoras and the former Snapperheads, are not located in Town Center or Mixed Use, nor are they part of a large community plan (or DRI’s) such as Seaside, Rosemary, Watercolor, etc.

Instead, these bar/restaurants are located in neighborhoods and directly adjacent to previously existing residential lots. Contrary to what has been stated on this board, all of the residential lots and most of the homes adjacent and near to these businesses were in existence long before Pandora’s or the Salty Dog/Snapperheads ever even opened for business.

In my opinion, a commercial establishment that chooses to do business in a neighborhood should keep its noise within the confines of the establishment. Ollie at the Red Bar seems to have no trouble doing this. He has his music inside, every day, the windows are closed, and there are no noise issues due to live music around the Red Bar.

What happens is that establishments such as Pandora’s and Snapperheads usually start as restaurants. OK, fine, Then they add live music. First, the music is inside. No problem. But then they decide to move the music outside to attract more business and to open up space inside for diners or bar patrons. They either start to amplify this music or it is played at a level where the adjoining neighbors are unable to enjoy their own lives on their own properties. So what was initially an “ok” situation (from the residents’ perspective) gradually turns into a very difficult situation to live with.

The residents of Grayton put up with a lot, especially with regard to traffic, and we all love living in Grayton. But the things that make Grayton so wonderful – its cool, funky cottages, its small shops and local restaurants, and its beach community feel – also require a balance between those who want to make a buck off Grayton and those who actually live in this cool and hip community. Grayton and Blue Mountain (and other small and quaint neighborhoods) should not be the home of loud late-night bars because such uses are not consistent with neighborhood-scale commercial uses (and under our Comprehensive Plan, neighborhood-scale commercial uses are the only types of uses that are authorized in the Residential Preservation category).

I have heard sowallers telling those who complain to put earplugs in or to lighten up and start enjoying life. But I will tell you that until you have dealt with an ongoing noise problem yourself, you cannot understand how distracting it can be and how unhappy it can make you. I would also bet that few of the “sowal critics” are full-time residents who live near these live music venues; rather they come to these neighborhood bars to enjoy the music and then head back to the confines of their quiet homes – very easy to say “live with it.”

My hope is that the establishments that are causing the problems would get some good business sense and just take their music inside and tone it down a little. Be a good neighbor and you will be welcomed into the neighborhood. (If everyone acted like good neighbors, there would be no need for any noise ordinances at all, but unfortunately, that is not the case.) Furthermore, I hope that there might be more interest in opening music venues in purely commercial areas – say along 98 in business districts and town centers. Those establishments could stay open late and have loud bands without any complaints.

Thank you for the opportunity to post my opinion and for reading my perspective on the "real" problem.

Just wanted to say that I was initially one of those who, because of my proximity, thought the complaints about Pandora's were a bit curmudgeonly.

Tonight, however, I must admit that the music is out of hand. I can hear it through the bedroom window with the ceiling fan going as I type. My dog ran to the backyard to find the party when I let him out to poo just now.

I'm not going to call the police or anything, but I just wanted to go on record -- the music gets a little louder every night. In the last week it's reached an annoying level. I agree with Grayton Girl -- it's all about being a good neighbor.

It certainly sounds like they are not being good neighbors. At this time of night I would not hesitate to call the police if my sleep were being disrupted on a weeknight and I had to work in the morning. I certainly do not envy your proximity Rapunzel! Point Washington State Forest is my backyard and I will keep the frog serenade as my nightly concert! lol

its a thing for locals every year at the end of the season. not sure how you didn't know about it but you missed one heck of a party!

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Mr.Watson has been having this party at Pandoras on the Tuesday after Labor Day for YEARS. He is the owner of the Garage Cafe in Bham and serves up some amazing BBQ. Wish I could have been there but I was working. I heard he really went all out for some very hard working people.

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A friendly call to the Restaurant would have been in order.

Two bands, one inside and one outside, and all the free BBQ you could eat, open invitation to everyone. I hear it was a great party.

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it was........

The best!

The party was great.

We bought land here 17 years ago and built 15 years ago. We decided on a quiet street and it still is. Pandora's was there then and has not changed. They were the only place to get food after Opal. They were helping residents way back when.

The steaks are great and so are Gina and Carl.

I say call Pandora's and complain.