melscuba

O.K., I am going to ask a pointed question. We are considering moving to SoWal full time in the summer of 2010. We have three school age children who will be in both the elementary and middle school grades by that time. I am satisfied with answers I've gotten about academics and the overall school environment for both. What concerns me is the High School choices. Neither South Walton HS or Arnold have very strong FCAT scores (46% are reading at or above 10th grade level when they took the test ). We are coming from schools who test scores are in the high 90's. What is being done about this? Does anyone see any changes for these high schools? There are many wonderful reasons for moving to the area, but I can't ignore what is on paper about these schools. Any information would be helpful. And honestly, don't give me the "test scores aren't everything" line. A score of 46% is unacceptable, and as a future community member, it's not good enough for our kids. Is anyone talking about how to solve this problem? Am I missing something?

wrobert

Nothing. It has been that way for over 8 years and they promise to fix it and it has remained relatively flat. But they do pride themselves on being above the State average.

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beachmouse

Get in touch with jdarg She can give you the inside scoop on South Walton High School and how to get the best possible education from the school.

As for the percent meeting standards in 10th grade reading, this year's FCAT had 61% listed, which is still not ideal but not too far from what are seen as the good general enrollment high schools in the Panhandle that have students that regularly send kids to Ivies (Gulf Breeze, Niceville, Navarre)

WCTA

Take a look at the SAT Scores For Walton County

Students Who Took The SAT 07-08: 66 /Number of graduates 2008: 379
Average SAT score 2007-08: 1459

RANGES OF SCORES FOR 2008 FRESHMEN

Duke

• Critical Reading: 690 - 770
• Mathematics: 690 - 790
• Writing: 680 - 780
• TOTAL SAT -2060 to 2340

Harvard

• Critical Reading: 690 - 800
• Mathematics: 700 - 790
• Writing: 690 - 780
• TOTAL SAT - 2080 - 2370

MIT, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

• Critical Reading: 660 - 760
• Mathematics: 720 - 800
• Writing: 660 - 750
• TOTAL SAT - 2040 - 2310

Stanford

• Critical Reading: 660 - 760
• Mathematics: 680 - 780
• Writing: 670 - 770
• TOTAL SAT - 2010 - 2310

UCLA

• Critical Reading: 570 - 680
• Mathematics: 610 - 720
• Writing: 580 - 690
• TOTAL SAT - 1760 - 2090

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idlewind

If I read your figures correctly, Walton Schools are doing exceptionally well for those planning on attending college.

ShallowsNole

Could be wrong, but I don't know of ANY school in the Panhandle making in the 90s - not even Niceville. And these are averages of all the kids - the straight A's, the stoners, the ones who struggle to learn, the athletes, the good all around B & C kids, the ones in stable families, the ones who don't know where they will be living from one day to the next. Yes, we have those here.

This is why I am more concerned with individual performance. I know what my son is capable of, he knows what I expect, and I know what his challenges are. And he is doing pretty doggone well.

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wrobert

The problem is not the schools, imho. They are doing fine within the parameters they have to operate. Getting parents involved is the key. Schools that are able to do that seem to do a whole lot better.

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WCTA

Please recheck the earlier post. I added the composite score ranges for those schools.

Walton County students average 1469 on the Composite score. An average score nation wide is in the 1500's. Ivy league schools ranges for admission are much higher.

Remember the SAT is primarily used in Eastern and western colleges and the ACT is prevalent in Southern Schools.

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beachmouse

Also keep in mind that outside of maybe Gulf Breeze and Niceville, the Panhandle schools tend to be more economically diverse than what you find in larger metro areas. The K-8 general enrollment schools in south Walton run about 25% free and reduced school lunch; high school is still in the 17% range.

And the biggest predictor for student success is usually parental income. (which makes Freeport Middle School's A grade impressive since their student population is 61% free/reduced school lunch)

SGB

I feel your pain. The South Walton High School test scores are not where many parents would like to see them, the science scores in particular. (But we did get a 90 in writing this year!) There are some very involved parents at the school and it seems more each year. Although change doesn't happen as fast as we'd like, in the one year I've had a student at the school, I've seen some progress. One major area is that starting next year South Walton will no longer be on a block schedule. (Arnold is also on block schedule.) Although some disagree, I think this change will be very advantageous to our students. I think it will get a bit better every year.

One of the things we've been impressed with regarding education in this area is the many options you have. If you do the research, you can get a good education at SWHS. You have to know which classes and teachers are the best. If your child does well academically, you might want to consider dual enrollment where they can take classes at NWFSC in Niceville. There will soon be a small campus opening very close to SWHS. There is also Florida Virtual school, where you can augment your classes or take all your classes on-line. Also in Niceville, on the NWFSC campus, there is the Collegiate High School. They do have FCAT scores in the 90s, but for the most part, you have to pass a test to get in, so you're not really comparing apples to apples. It's a hike to get there especially if you're on the east end of 30A. The program there is for kids that are academically motivated. Niceville High School is also an option. It's certainly not very convenient, but their scores are in the high 80s for math and writing. Niceville is a much bigger school, so it can offer more classes than SWHS does and has some very rigorous AP classes. A big school isn't for us, so that wasn't an option that we explored very much.

The Walton county school system is evolving from a rural school system to one that prepares kids for college. From what we've seen here in South Walton, the expectations of the college educated parents that have moved here are much higher than they have been in the past. The same is probably true in the rest of the county as well. So as more parents get involved and push for more challenging classes and better test scores, the curriculum and quality of instruction will improve. I think we'll see more AP classes across the county and better instruction of those classes. At least, that's my hope.

FF 2

There is also the Collegiate High School at NWF State College. I had 2 out of 3 go there. They have the opportunity to graduate with an Associate Degree and High School Diploma. The worse part is the drive. At the time to my kids got in, a lottery system was used. Great school.

jdarg

Robert hit the nail on the head- but it is a multihead nail!

Yes, parent involvement is key, but here it needs to go beyond what many of us from larger communities are used to doing in our kids' schools. We are a rural community, and our educational system (public and private) doesn't have the population or resources to make it really comparable to larger communities, who have lots of kids, lots of parents, larger coffers, more school choice, and more community resources (parks, sports facilities, access to the arts, etc). There are a handful of schools, and we have to find a way to make one of them work for our kids- there is no smorgasbord here.

So - as a parent, you will have to dig in a little more here. You can't just send your kid to school and expect everything to just work out without parental involvement. Even in the best schools, once they get to high school, parents need to be on top of everything from 9th grade on- class schedule, testing, sports and extracurricular, etc., because every decision at this point is leading up to what happens after high school.

SGB is correct when she talks about the expectation of parents in Walton County that has shifted to a college prep expectation. As parents, we realize that that expectation needs to be clear to students from the beginning- middle school preferably, but at the very least, from the minute they walk through the front door of the high school as a freshman. Waiting until junior and senior years to start thinking about college is ridiculous. Unfortunately, (and I am only speaking for SWHS), the guidance department does not have enough time or people to make this expectation a priority all 4 years, because they are overworked as it is keeping up with 500+ kids. Barbara Cole, the guidance counselor, and her staff, are truly amazing, but because of lack of funds in the budget, they won't get the extra help they need and deserve.

Fortunately, SWHS has been very receptive to a group of hardworking parents who saw the importance of shifting the goal of high school success from just getting a high school diploma to going to college. To accomplish our goal, college preparation is going to have to be in front of these kids starting in 9th grade. This spring, we had to focus on meeting with juniors to make sure they were aware of college board test dates and other deadlines pertaining to their futures- yes, they had been to the meetings, but until you sit down with a kid and make eye contact and conversation with them, many times a class meeting will be an "in one ear out the other" situation. We found the one-on-ones to be helpful, and caught a few kids who might have slipped through the cracks and missed some opportunities.

SWHS does not have a college planning department like other high schools do, so we are going to invent one in some shape or form! Our guidance counselor met a college planning counselor from Venice (FL) High School, and she brought us an idea for SWHS that hopefully will work out to be a really great idea for our guidance department. Venice High School has a college counseling department funded by Rotary. It started out as a part time position, now it is full time. The counselor works on nothing but college planning- student schedules, testing, applying to schools, and finding financial aid, scholarships, and grants. In the first couple of years, the dollar amount awarded to Venice students at least doubled. The local community saw the importance of educating their local kids, and stepped up with the salary for this position. We are talking about how to make this work at SWHS.

Just a thought (before I go)- if the high school had a college prep focus instead of an FCAT focus, would the FCAT scores go up??? Hmmmm.....

There is so much more to say about this- and my fingers are tired! Maybe SGB or Grayton Girl will chime in some more.

mdd88jd

I thought I should chime in on this discussion a little bit. I don't necessarily disagree with any of the posters here. We have been raising our expectations for students for the past 12 years. The FCAT tests three subjects in high schools. We do pretty well on the reading and math portions (when compared to other counties in the State).

However, WCTA has pointed out the problem we are having and frankly, the whole State is having. Ever since the State's educational accountability program was put in place (FCAT, school grades, etc.) the State's ACT and SAT scores have flattened. Walton County's score have increased slightly, but, not at a rate consistent with our changing demographics. Part of the problem with the State's curriculum and with the accountability system for high schools is that it is too narrowly focused.

Hopefully, with Senator Gaetz's new high school grading system bill which passed last year, that will begin to change.

As for SWHS, the poster is correct. If the parent is involved, pays attention to the classes your child takes and insists on quality instruction, you are going to get it. I suspect that is true for almost all high schools though. Although we have no real statistical evidence, we have some evidence that a large majority of our students who go directly to universities do quite well. Sadly, our remediation rate for the local community colleges is too high.

I copied the original post to Marsha Pugh, our district administrator in charge of curriculum and she responded as follows:

I think it would be important to know if this family is moving from within Florida or from out-of-state. Each state assessment is very different and it may not be reasonable to compare one to another. Every state had to define “proficiency” when designing assessments. Florida chose a level 3 as the indicator of proficiency which is a very high expectation. The person who posted this probably would think this is an “excuse” but it is not possible to compare all state assessments equally.

The district is strongly pushing high schools to train all content teachers in Advanced Placement. Even if we don’t have capacity to offer AP in all subject areas, the training is designed to make teaching more rigorous and challenging for students. We are also expecting schools to train all content teachers in Content Area Reading – Professional Development (CAR-PD). Some schools are showing reluctance to move in this direction. However, the intent is not to make content teachers reading teachers, but to empower them with knowledge to teach more effectively within their content area. The FCAT assesses a student’s reading performance using informational text. Science, social studies and even mathematics teachers must know how to effectively teach content vocabulary and guide students to read informational text with understanding. We provided several CAR-PD training sessions this summer. Most of the participants at the secondary level were from middle schools. South Walton had only two teachers who chose to participate. Emerald Coast Middle had seven, representing a large portion of their faculty.

Schools had also had opportunity this summer (training for school teams took place this week, Monday – Wednesday) to be a part of a program out of the University of South Florida, School-Wide Positive Behavior Support. All of our elementary and middle schools will be participating (previously only WDE and FES were involved). Unfortunately, none of our high schools were able to participate. Some think they don’t need it. I disagree. We’re going to encourage them to participate in the future. The program helps them evaluate behavior and attendance information to identify schoolwide areas of concern and develop a schoolwide plan to improve. I think that this process will help any school to improve by changing school culture to foster improvement.

In summary, I think the most important thing we are doing and must continue to do, is provide high quality professional development as described above.

So, I think we have the train moving in the right direction. Thanks for the posts and comments. We are working hard to improve education in Walton County.

jdarg

Hi Mark! We must have hit the submit button at the same time. As always, thanks for taking to he time to communicate info to us.

mdd88jd

"Just a thought (before I go)- if the high school had a college prep focus instead of an FCAT focus, would the FCAT scores go up??? Hmmmm....."

In my opinion the FCAT scores would not go up. The FCAT tests Reading, Writing, Math and some science. You are right, we are focused on those four subjects and we probably do not spend enough time in literature, higher math, history, arts, geography, non-FCAT science, etc. Thus, if you spread you resources to the other subjects, you probably get diluted resources spent on the FCAT. The better students would do okay on the FCAT, but, the lower performing students would be underserved. So, I think what would happen is that your FCAT scores would go down, while, the rigor of your overall curriculum would go up. Kind of ironic, huh....

That's why I have always argued that high schools should be graded by requiring every student to take either the SAT and ACT and measure the school's performance by the average score and how much those scores improve..... Just one opinion....

melscuba

Thank you everyone for your replies and getting others involved in this discussion. To answer a question in one of the posts, yes, we are moving from out of state. I considered whether the FCAT measured on a different scale of expectations, as I understand each state develops its own standards. In the scheme of things, we are moving from Georgia which consistently ranks in the mid to low 40's in education as compared to the rest of the U.S.. Florida, on the other hand, ranked 21st this last year. We are moving from a suburb of Atlanta however, and our high school is ranked in the top 100 high schools in the nation. Another number that I found disturbing was that only 66 out of 379 SAT eligible students even opted to take the exam. I would like to consider that the majority of students chose to take the ACT??? I worked in a North Carolina high school for 6 years and watched it transition from a rural school (the children were primarily from farmers who needed the kids to help in the fields more than graduate high school) to a school with college preparatory focus. I get the impression that SWHS may be going through this transition?? I get the impression from other posts that the high school doesn't seem to feel "pressed" to make any changes which concerns me.

BTW, our school has 33% on free and reduced lunch as well as the same percentage who do not speak English as their first language(the majority of that number come in not speaking any English at all). I say that because the test score numbers can still be reached.

Please keep the information coming as well as opinions. I want to hear of change. When we finally see our dream of 30-A living come true, I want to feel confident that we aren't sacrificing our children's education, but on the contrary, enhancing it.

mdd88jd

Thanks for the questions. To answer one, I believe most of our kids who are planning to go to college take the ACT versus the SAT. Most colleges in the south only require the ACT. I say "believe" because I have not checked the numbers, but, that is my recollection.

WCTA

Florida ACT scores fall, state ranks 48th nationally ...

Florida's average composite score on the ACT college entrance test dropped 0.4 point to 19.9 this year to rank 48th nationally, according to results released early Wednesday.

FROM THE FLA DOE WEBSITE

2008 Results

Walton CO
Seniors 441
# Taking ACT 266 - % taking - 60.3%

Average Scores
English -19.2
Math - 19.4
Reading - 20.7
Science - 19.3
Composite - 19.8


Okaloosa Composite = 22.1
Bay Composite = 20.8
Santa Rosa =21.4
Washington = 19.9
Wakula = 21.0

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SGB

Yes, Walton County is going through a similar transition. SWHS is relatively new, so it's kind of going through a "growing up" transition too. Its first year it had many students that other schools didn't want, so that was a tough year or two. Since then we've had a new principal that put a stop to that. So now most of the kids that go there are from South Walton and grew up together. For the most part it's a good group of kids and they have relatively few behavior issues. As the school has evolved, they've been able to add AP classes and focus more on the education of the kids. Sports is big here too so that gets attention too.

I would have hoped that the test scores would start to improve, but so far, they haven't really. I think it's just a matter of time. Now that we're back to a traditional schedule, and more parents are pushing for better academics, I think we'll eventually start to see test score improvement.

Improving the FCAT scores needs to include and start with the elementary and middle schools too. The middle schools are really starting to take off here. Seaside has always had good scores and now Emerald Coast (also relatively new) is doing really well too. The students that are just now coming into the high school are the ones that have had an improved education at Emerald Coast and Seaside. Perhaps we'll see a rise in high school FCAT scores as these kids go to the high school.

Strictly based on the students that I know, most seem to take both tests. Unfortunately many of them wait until 12th grade to take the tests. I haven't evaluated the SAT test taker numbers lately, but perhaps they include the lower classmen in the count? Many of our students end up going to NWFSC after they graduate and it's not a requirement that they take the SAT or ACT to get in. It is a requirement that they take it if they want Bright Futures money. There's another big perk that Florida gives their kids, Bright Futures scholarships. Look that up and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

BTW - the dual enrollment, collegiate high school and virtual schools are all free. Students can earn a lot of free college credit before they even graduate from HS.

As parents we all have to continue to push for better classes and higher expectations. We have to impress this upon the school administration and the school board of the county. As the expectations of the schools changes I would hope that the school board composition and expectations will change too. We've got some good people on the board, but I think the county is due for some changes. We'll see improvement as things evolve.

Smiling JOe

Since we are looking at the average test scores for SAT in Walton County, why are you showing us top-ranked college entrance requirements? Shouldn't we be looking at scores of acceptance for schools such as the ones a Walton County student might attend, like FSU, UF, UCF, UofM, etc? I'd bet that less than one percent of people who take the SAT go to all of those schools you listed, so if you want to use them as a reference grade, you should probably take only the highest SAT score for all of Walton County to see if they would be accepted on score alone. Just my $.03

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mdd88jd

Thanks SGB...., although the comment about changes on the school board scared me a little!.....I know I didn't agree with you about the scheduling change...but, I hope you know that the disagreement was principled. It is interesting that since the change over, we have been asked by principals to allow students to take more than two P.E.s per year and we have dropped our local requirement that the student take four social studies prior to graduation. But, I really hope the schedule change positively affects our students. In talking with other counties, the results are mixed. I have always thought that the schedule really did not matter, it is the quality of the leadership in the school and the teachers that really matter. In any event, I appreciate your involvement and hopefully, we can work together to continue to build outstanding schools in Walton County.

melscuba

As far as block vs. traditional. Here in Roswell, our middle school works on a block schedule, and our high school the traditional. The scores are strong in both schools. There is a lot of debate as to what works best. It seems to be more personal opinion. I agree, it seems to be quality of leadership and the teachers that really matter. I did notice the point of scores being higher in both middle schools than in SWHS. This is what prompted my original question. In two years, on paper anyway, it looks like kids who were scoring in the high 80th and low 90th percentile were dropping to the 40's OUCH! It looks like a major breakdown between schools. I can say right off the bat, I am impressed with the open dialogue... this is how change happens. The direction SWHS is taking for that change to happen needs to become apparent.

rheffron

What is the cost to take either the act or sat? Would it makes sense to make it mandatory?

mdd88jd

That drop in scores has been going on for some time in all areas of the county, not just south Walton. I can't explain it. My best guess is that it is easier to teach the FCAT subjects (reading, writing, math and science) in elementary and middle schools because the state does not mandate much else that must be taught. In high schools, we have mandatory curriculum for many subjects outside FCAT so I suspect it is less intense in High Schools than in middle schools. Just a guess. My brother has been an administrator in both settings, need to ask him that question.

jdarg

All good points as usual SGB and Mark!

I know teachers and administrators read this message board, and I want them to remember that while we want to see improvements in our schools, it does not mean that we are looking to criticize all the time- we just expect excellence for our kids and want to help get us there. The parents working the hardest for our schools are also the biggest cheerleaders for the school system- we see the benefit of having a strong public school system, because without it, we have a weak community. Citizens that want to get our economic mojo back around here need to get behind our school system- not only for the current residents, but to help attract future residents, like Melscuba. Sometimes moving to a new area is forced, but in this area it is more of a "lifestyle choice, so people look at school quality when making decisions about moving to the beach. High quality schools have tentacles that reach into all parts of the community, so asking for excellence is not too much to ask, IMO.

We are one of the families that moved here because of a job instead of just "wanting to move to the beach and making something happen"- it was a great job opportunity, and it just happened to be at the beach. So- we knew coming in that we would have to be involved and make some enhancements to our kids educations, which we have done. This year, our junior will be taking 3 AP courses plus Latin II on virtual school, 2 other academic courses, and hopefully the leadership, art 3, or speech class. SWHS is small, but there are some quality electives taught by great teachers.

I can honestly say that we love SWHS, and we will continue to be behind our school 100%.

SGB

I enjoy a healthy debate and disagreeing on an issue is not enough for me to decide that you're not a good board member. There are other members on the board that I think could be cycled out. My personal opinion. I agree that the type of schedule is a minor issue compared to quality of teachers and leadership. However, I believe the block schedule has too many negatives compared to its positives. My current 8th grader would never have been able to survive trying to learn more than 60 minutes of information a day per class when he gets to 9th grade. He would have been way behind and lost in class after a month.

Regarding the things that have been asked for in changing to a traditional schedule - I'm sure that we're going to have a few years of this weird class scheduling due to the fact that some of the kids were out of sequence for their classes due to what you could do with your schedule under block. Once those kids graduate, I would hope that the traditional schedule gets everyone on track and things run smoothly and hopefully everyone learns more. However, just because block schedule allowed for certain things, like having some of the sports teams practice for a quarter of their school day, I would hope that we aren't making allowances to continue some of these practices with the traditional schedule. This is just an example and I have no clue what the problems are that are being encountered that would require someone to take more than 2 PEs a year.

There is a cost for the SAT and ACTs. I think it's about $45 for the SAT. If you're eligible for free lunches, then it's my understanding that you can get the fee waived. As jdarg said in her post, there is an active group of parents working with the kids to make sure they are taking the tests at the correct time and making sure that $$ isn't stopping someone from taking the test or considering college. I doubt there are too many schools that have this level of involvement from parents.

SWHS has the potential to have an academic reputation equal to our closest example, Niceville. I'm looking forward to the day we can look at our scores and see that they're on par with Niceville. We'll never have everything Niceville has just due to the numbers, but the small number of students at SWHS also has many huge advantages.

SGB

You're right jdarg, I would hate for anyone to think that we're looking to criticize all the time. To get change for the better you have to recognize what's not working, so often, that's the focus. I can honestly say that I have been very impressed with all the teachers my child had in 9th grade. And I've been very impressed with many of the other teachers I've met. Excellence in the schools will need to involve all of us working together to get there. The parents only know a small slice of information. The teachers know a huge slice of the information and really are the key.

WCTA

I posted those schools due to the statement made by beachmouse:

As for the percent meeting standards in 10th grade reading, this year's FCAT had 61% listed, which is still not ideal but not too far from what are seen as the good general enrollment high schools in the Panhandle that have students that regularly send kids to Ivies (Gulf Breeze, Niceville, Navarre)

One of our sons attended Duke and I can assure you that an SAT score of 1490 would not have gotten him there. He worked hard, and we set a high level of expectation.

Please see that the ACT scores for surrounding schools are substantially higher than the average of 19.8 in WCSD. I served on a school board and can only say that it will take many years to change those averages under any school board or administration. It will take a unified will of parents, teachers and mentors to raise the level of expectation and results.

We need to have a stable, predictable revenue source for education in Florida. The legislature in Florida does not seem to have the political will to fix a definite problem - widely fluctuating, unpredictable revenue sources.

Just my .02 cents worth.

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jdarg

We have some really great parents here-

parents of incoming freshman jumped in and worked their tails off during our project with the juniors this past spring. They didn't have any kids at SWHS yet, but they saw the importance of preparation for the future beginning in 9th grade. They should all get giant gold stars.

FF 2

My son graduated from SWHS and was there from the day it opened. During that time he was there with 2 different principals and 1 vice principal. His teachers were excellent and seemed to excel. I was impressed with SWHS and they have improved every year.

beachmouse

The point being that some of the good reputation schools that do routinely have students who throw out good test numbers on the good pointy end of the bell curve aren't that different than SWHS on the metric that the very first post brought up.

And while averages present one aspect of a school, it's also helpful to know medians and general distributions of scores because there are frequently groups that will skew a simple average one way or another and may lead to conclusions that don't reflect a population as a whole, or fail to recognize a successful subgroup (example here- kids that take X number of AP classes) within the big group.

scooterbug44

I assume they posted those schools because that's where they want their kids to go - nothing wrong w/ aiming high, though I doubt a Walton student would get a good enough education to be competitive at one of those schools. They'd need a great deal of supplemental education and parental involvement.

Anyone getting into the schools posted would be in the top 1% of their class, so like you said, the average SAT score isn't a good indicator.

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WCTA

ACT.gif

These are the lowest levels of data available from Fla DOE

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beachmouse

Or got at least a 3 on a reasonable number of AP classes and wrote an interesting enough essay about their volunteer time spent with South Walton Turtle Watch and how that's inspired them to be a marine biologist.

The national elites want grades and test scores, but they're also big on bringing in a diverse freshman class that consists of students that are passionate about Something. The kid doing the best they can in a small town that may not have a ton of flashy opportunities stands out in the pile a lot more than the interchangable kids with excellent grades and tests from the same upper middle class suburban schools the school gets 10+ applications from every year.

A good 'Overcoming Obstacles' narrative makes an admissions office wet their pants in exctiement.

scooterbug44

I am talking about the basic education a student gets at a Walton County school - I just don't think it is a strong enough base to make them academically competitive at MIT, Harvard, etc.

Yes, grades and test scores are just one part of the admission process, but the TYPICAL applicant to these schools is not only an exceptional student w/ high test scores, they also volunteer, are a varsity athlete (usually a captain and in multiple sports), participate in a variety of extracurriculars, have 4s or 5s on AP exams, have been mainly in AP/accelerated classes, speak a 2nd language, and play a musical instrument/choir/drama. Most applicants to those schools are limiting their list of extracurriculars and honors to one page.

Things like Turtle Watch, interning at the Rep etc. can make them more interesting, but it only goes so far as most of their competition is doing the same thing.

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melscuba

I find these statements profound. I honestly have no idea where my three children will end up in their college decision. Bottom line, I want them to have the best possible education. I know college planning starts happening in middle school here. It's nothing too serious, but the guidance counselors start encouraging some focus. My husband and I will be there every step of the way with our kids and we do expect some sort of secondary education or training. I want to know our school environment sets high expectations for those who can achieve it (and my assumption is most can).

It is true that we would be moving to Santa Rosa Beach for the lifestyle it offers. I think a previous post was correct in pointing out that some people considering moving there are doing so for lifestyle choices rather than necessity. Education reaches deep within the community.

Again, to know that board members read these posts and engage with us is incredible. I have never felt board members were accessible here. It's a huge plus. Communication is the key to progress. Just knowing I can reach out to receptive ears is HUGE!

And, back to my point. What concrete actions are being taken to resolve this? I understand some scheduling changes are taking place with hopes of a positive outcome. What about the principle and teachers of SWHS? Do they view this as a serious challenge and what are they going to do about it?

Here in Georgia, funding (including teacher bonuses) is dispersed based on student achievement. Anything like that in Florida or Walton County? IMO competition/challenge usually leads to better performance.

SWGB

I'm just curious, have any kids ever graduated from SWHS and gone to an Ivy?

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ShallowsNole

Don't know, but I graduated from Freeport 28 years ago and hit a 29 on my ACT, first try.

I am not as gung-ho over the seven-period day as I was before my son began working...but that is just because we are trying to reach compromises to allow academics to come first, but still maintain a job and varsity athletics. Things aren't as simple as they used to be - but at least we are no longer dealing with a teenager with idle time!

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jdarg

The timing will work out- remember, we all had 7 period days, sports, jobs, and a social life- and we all survived!

full time

I have a niece and nephew at the best prep school in central Florida. My niece is currently exploring some of the finest universities in the south. She's not doing the entirety of your list and it doesn't seem to be an issue. While SWHS is not an exclusive, highly regarded prep school, you don't pay $15,000.00 a year to send your kids there.

The fact is that SWHS is getting better by the year, and I suspect it is about to get a lot better. The kids coming through middle school now are from the influx of parents that arrived here after 9/11 (coincided with the St Joe boom). The parents are deeply involved and the kids are getting quality, competitive educations at the South Walton middle schools (Seaside Middle is an outstanding school). I would expect that over the next decade, you will see a number of SWHS kids attending a wide array of universities including some on the aforementioned list.

jdarg

Excellent points. And they all go back to the same idea of high expectations for our schools and our kids.

scooterbug44

I was talking about the applicant pools for MIT and Harvard because that is what the original poster was asking about - obviously they have higher/different requirements than "the finest universities in the South". Colleges want well rounded students with a variety of interests, not just good grades/test scores and the competition is brutal. At Harvard, more than 25,000 students are applying for 2,100 spots and MIT admits about 10% of its applicants - and each of those DENIED is an exceptional student.

Thanks to parental involvement I think our local schools will continue to improve, but I don't think it is inaccurate to say that a student who only attends class at SWMS isn't a strong candidate for MIT. IMO parental involvement, high standards, and outside educational opportunities are a huge factor in student success.

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

goodwitch58

The lack of resources/budget/staff, etc. for guidance/academic counseling seems to be a problem in more than a few Florida schools. Many students have not had the proper college planning/preparation soon enough IMO

Anyone have an idea why this is so--beyond the normal lack of appropriate funding for positions that are not administrative?

Would like to work on improving the situation, but need more info....

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

ShallowsNole

I know it will...I'm just remembering that my job was at my parents' store, I was able to do my homework when we didn't have customers, and being as we had a keg in the back, it was where EVERYONE hung out and so that was my social life in 1970's SoWal. Back then I never realized how easy I had it!

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jdarg

Parents like us are looking at a great undergrad experience, preferably NON - Ivy, knowing that post grad is the real target.

Johnny Post

To the OP - it is very difficult to compare data between two states. The SAT/ACT is standard across the country. But FCAT and similar state testing standards can vary wildly. Don't get too concerned on school grades and state testing standards.

It has been my experience that the student is the most important factor in testing. While good teaching and preparation will undoubtedly improve a student's scores, you will simply not see students outpeform their own abilities. So if you have a good student in Georgia, there should be no reason to expect them to become a bad student or perform poorly on testing.

As for SAT/ACT, I don't see how those numbers are indicative of a school's quality. While far more students take the ACT than the SAT in the south, unless a school is providing mandatory prep courses, then the school really won't control the outcome.

Sometimes its easy to try and pinpoint student achievement on the educational institution and ignore the student.

Interested Girl

What we tried to do was provide the best environment for our children to be prepared for what ever school they chose to attend. We did not limit our childrens hopes and dreams for their education. We embraced their goals and helped them to reach for whatever star they chose.

Busta Hustle

as a former walco school board member once asked me, "if we are 48th then who is 49th 50th and 51st?"
On a more serious note i know of 1 kid that moved here with 2 years of high school to finish. lived in sowal but drove to niceville. He is now at Vanderbilt. I'm sure he raised test score averages. I also heard that U of F has highest standards for enrollment. So would a good measure for how well the high schools are doing in college prep be how many grads could at least get accepted if they wished to attend? Can any one comment on why drop out rates are so high? Thanks.

mdd88jd

The drop out rate is an issue that I have been working on pretty hard the past two years. First, it is impossible to rely on the state's statistics on the drop out rate because they keep changing the definition of a "drop out." My idea is to measure by the number of kids that enter the 9th grade and who do not, after five years (allow one year for failure), graduate from high school by either receiving a regular diploma or a GED. That's a pretty broad definition. I have asked a staff member to track the kids that entered our various 9th grades in 2005 -2006 school year and find out whether they graduated or dropped out as defined above. We are still tracking. Of course, many transferred so we are looking for those students. I hope to have the results or the raw numbers pretty soon.

My suspicion is that most students "drop out" because after being mandatorily (spelling, or is that a word?) retained and turn 16 in the seventh or eighth grade simply give up and find a job.

Just my opinion.

Busta Hustle

thanks for working on reducing dropout rates regardless of how they are defined. I think you are right on target in your previous post regarding ongoing teacher training to enhance a continuously more challenging curriculum for those students who would qualify for advanced placement. please do not forget the value of recess and physical education as a part of every day wellness. 7 periods of academics with no recess no p.e. then combined with a crappy lunch never works. respectfully submitted.