The TDC is seeking proposals for a sports complex facility to sit on approximately 102 acres. Page 22 details to proposed additions to facilities.

I have attached a copy of the RPF for everyone to study.

Are they proposing an additional 1/2 cent bedtax to fund ?

Where is the citizen involvement in this complex ?

Sports Complex RFP-TDC 09July.pdf

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Thank You Walton County !
Our Hotline received 1168 calls during it's first month of operation.

We should at least look at what it would cost and what revenue it would produce.

So what if it is a 1/2 cent bed tax? Tourists would be paying it.

We need more baseball fields in South Walton and so much the better if we can get tourists to pay for it.

FYI-no kids either

I looked at the attachment and it appears to be an RFP to conduct a Feasibility Study to determine the feasibility of a sports AND arts complex for Walton County. I believe it stems from community requests for both.

In my experience with other feasibility studies, they would typically include a component of citizen involvement. Additionally, they typically include a financial feasibility analysis to evaluate exisiting and possible future revenue streams. I guess my point is that I don't see any proposal to raise bed taxes or exclude citizen input as that's what led to the study.
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Be nice if they could get a pool as part of that sort of complex. Doesn't have to be as big as Frank Brown Park, but something similar to the Destin YMCA would be a community asset.

Generally a public facility isn't a revenue generator. That being said I'm all for it.

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so is the TDC sitting on 102 acres already owned by them?

Generally speaking, the TDC is a county agency and does not own any land. They only manage lands owned by the County (i.e. beach and bay accesses).

Does the county own a lot of land that isn't set aside for conservation?

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I don't know for the County as a whole as I am more familiar with beach and bay accesses, and properties the TDC manages in Sowal. The planning department could probably answer that for you, or maybe WCTA has that info.

Thanks. It's easier just to ask the peanut gallery.

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Proud to practice indoctrination
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I understand.

Is NatureWalk 102 acres? (just kidding, but that would be nice)

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Park sounds like a good thing.

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North is a direction. South is a way of life.

Slips out of lurkdom to add my 2 pennies worth. This sounds like a great idea. A nice pool complex and baseball/softball fields could bring in extra revenue (as if Walton Co needs more tourists) in the form of tournaments and swim/diving meets...and honestly the more structured recreation available to the youngsters, the less free time for mischief. Or so the theory goes. I know I always found time for mischief...still do.

I am personally for more civic facilities in SoWal. That is about my only complaint with the area. Although I appreciate all of the local resort developments' green spaces, it would be great to have some spaces that are truly for the community, especially if it included ballfields or pools. I'm sure that the resort developments would like to keep their property reserved primarily for their guests. As far as the bed tax goes, I see it as the visiting population giving back to help maintain a healthy and happy SoWal. A yin yang or cosmic balance.

What would it take for the local government to create some indoor facilities for locals to use during the burning summer days and the colder winter days? The outdoors are truly magnificent in SoWal, but there are times when indoor space would be a welcome relief, especially now that the coastal library branch will be closed on Saturday.

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Don't need it. Don't want it. Bed taxes should be going to maintain the beaches, not diverted to other spending.

A very brief search led me to some sports complex plans in my area in the past couple of years.

One opened in FishHawk Ranch (newer development) at a cost of just under $10 million for 70 acres. No pool, mostly fields, concessions, restrooms.

One proposal was for a very controversial $40 million project on over 400 acres, with a midsized stadium surrounded by other playing fields. As far as I know it is dead in the water.

It seems like the county is looking at a multi-use building for arts and sports, some fields, and hopefully a pool? I would be all for it but paying for it is another issue. As someone who communicates directly with renters on a frequent basis, I don't think expecting them to cough up additional dollars to pay for it is a good plan at this point. Maybe revenues will be up without raising the taxes by the time the plans are ready to go.

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From re-reading the link in the original post, it appears the county is studying the feasibility of two separate facilities, possibly (probably?) in two separate places. Page 22 has a breakdown of what the sports complex would contain, and it doesn't appear to have the arts plans included in that breakdown of 102 acres. It doesn't seem to say how much space they would need for the arts complex, but I'm guessing the 5,000-10,000 seat facility alone needs plenty of room.

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Proud to practice indoctrination
at least when it comes to the GATOR NATION

Coming from a family with no affiliation to sports, it's rather foreign to me. Is this part of a stimulus plan for our economy?

Please re-read the thread and post again.

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I'm for it if there's a heated pool. If they want tourists to pay for it with increased tax, one thing tourists would love to have is a heated pool off season. That would also possibly bring more renters in off season which could also help local businesses (if more people visiting off season is what SoWal wants). We just got back from Italy and there's a public pool and it was full just about every day with families and teens - locals and a LOT of visitors. Kids loved it so I loved it. It was a great place for the kids to meet other kids.

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Paula

Three words:

Snowbird water aerobics

Which is both a brilliant and terrifying concept

Well, this is suprising. Possible tax money being used to pay for a sports complex from the TDC and most of the comments are positive. I am truly shocked, there was more outrage about using the 1/2 penny increace to assist in drawing a Low Cost Airline. Although I am not opposed to this, had the County had foresight enough a regional facility could have been built long ago with it being built by developers as a swap for green space in subdivisions.

This moderator is fairly certain that Kurt is the one who sent it out.

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Proud to practice indoctrination
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amen!

If the county doesn't need a facility like this yet, they will at some point, not just for tourists but for general population growth. So it's good to try to target land while they still can. I would hope it would be centrally located so tourists and SoWal residents/owners can use it. But that's tricky. Nature Walk isn't exactly central for the entire county, but boy that would be sweet!

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It is interesting to read the different opinions. Thanks for sharing. My comments are as follows. Regarding the comment above about the TDC should be using that tax on the beaches, that is not the TDC's perspective. They spend it on things which draw tourists. A recreational facility such as Frank Brown Park in Panama City Beach brings thousands of tourists to PCB, who spend millions of dollars, which in turn helps the local businesses and local tax revenues.

On that note, the problem I have with such a facility being built to bring in more tourists, to our uncrowded beaches, is that it could take away from the focus on our different lifestyle from Destin and PCB. This area is a low-key vacation area, which has a focus on natural settings, not huge rec parks. We actually have a huge natural recreation facility, otherwise known as Pt Washington State Park and the Gulf of Mexico, but it is greatly underutilized as such by locals. There could easily be team building events in our natural settings, almost year round, but no one is doing it. I think a good Parks and Recreation Director would have many programs to take advantage of our unique natural setting. We have great opportunity, if we just open our eyes to that which is already before us.

The flip-side is that it has the potential to fill cash registers, especially in the off season when it is so desparately needed, which tends to make living here much easier. We sure could use something to bring the entire community of South Walton together. If a kid wants to play tennis or go swimming in a pool SoWal, good luck. Currently, we have no public facilities to do such. I can't even think of more than one public basketball goal in South Walton (Cessna Landing).

I know the Boys and Girl's Club is now on the table. It seems to me that by building a good public facility, we wouldn't need a private one designated solely for kids.

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Actually, a location like the property where the Boys and Girls Club is proposed (behind the court house annex), would be great, as it is centrally located east to west, backs up to the Library and High School, close enough to draw South Freeport residents as well. Kids could go directly from school to the library, then the rec center. Since is sounds like the Girls and Boys Club is moving forward, having a public adult rec facility next door would also be convenient for parents.

I don't think the facility would need to be centrally located for the entire County, as that would put the facility north of Freeport, making Frank Brown Park in PCB closer for most of South Walton. Freeport already has a large park, and they actually have a public swimming pool behind City Hall. I believe other parks are located in the other areas in North Walton. South Walton has no such place for public use.

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Synchronized Snowbird Water Aerobics...

This weeks DeFuniak Herald has a legal notice for a "Public Hearing" for a 1/2 cent bed tax increase to be effective October 1, 2009.

Wonder what the hearing is for ? (Please See Post #35)

If it is for the Cultural Center and Sports Complex then they are proposing a new tax for a project without the Economic Feasibility Study completed.

From The RPF.

RFP NO: 09-037
The Walton County Tourist Development, (TDC), a division of Walton County is
requesting proposals from firms to do a Feasibility Study for an Arts Center and Sports
Center located in South Walton.

RFP Deadline: August 25, 2009 no later than 3:00PM (cst) and will open immediately
thereafter.

RPF deadline is 14 days after the Public Hearing to increase the bet tax again.

Hmmmm !

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Thank You Walton County !
Our Hotline received 1168 calls during it's first month of operation.

I think a facility like this is a great idea - and a much better use of tax dollars than bribing an airline and lining politician's pockets.

As far as using tourist dollars for something besides the beach, I bet many visitors (especially w/ kids) would like an INDOOR place to have funn on a rainy/stormy/red or purple flag day.

I don't think we should increase the tax rate any more though - an annual pass or daily entrance fee could help offset the costs and then the actual USERS would be the ones paying.

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The enemy is ignorance.

Have you called the TDC and asked? In my conversation with the TDC a couple of minutes ago, I found out very quickly that this is in regards to the 1/2 cent that was approved by the BCC a while ago. This is the next step in that process. It is not another 1/2 cent increase.

Yes I did call and was told that Mr. Mares was on vacation. Why don't you tell all what the Public Notice Is About. I know of no reason that there would be a next step. The prior 1/2 cent was approved and was included in their 2010 budget as a revenue source.

What is the next step ?

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Thank You Walton County !
Our Hotline received 1168 calls during it's first month of operation.

If you left a message, I would assume that you will be hearing back from him as soon as he gets back from vacation. I will let him speak for the details. I just asked the question of "is the TDC trying to pass another 1/2 cent" and got a "no, this is the ordinance for the first 1/2 cent that was passed by the County Commission a while ago."

You are correct. Mr. Mares and I just had a phone conversation concerning the "Public Hearing Notice" - he called while on vacation to discuss the Notice.

Just to be totally transparent on our process:

1. We called Mr. Mares office this morning and were told that he was on vacation. No one gave us a cell phone number to reach him while on vacation.

2. We called a member of the TDC board and asked about the Notice and they were unaware of the Notice and what it was for.

3. We called a county commissioner and had a conversation with them about the "Notice of Public Hearing" and they had no insight into the ad or its purpose.

After discussing this with the TDC director he states that the hearing is a part of the Statute dealing with the legal requirements for passing an "ordinance" dealing with the 1/2 cent previously voted on as a "resolution" that the board passed earlier (from 4 to 41/2 cents).

The TDC Director states that this "Notice For A Public Hearing" and the RFP for a Cultural and Sports Complex are not connected.

Our understanding of the structure of the various components of the TDC bed tax structure are restricted as to their purpose and would not allow for funding of the "Cultural Center and Sports Complex" without another 1/2 cent increase if the economic feasibility study indicates that the project were feasible.

The Bed tax statute limits the total tax allowable under the law at 5 cents and an allowable use for the remaining available tax would be for "Sports Complexes".

Note: The time elapsed from the original post to Mr. Mares call was 43 minutes while he was on vacation.

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Thank You Walton County !
Our Hotline received 1168 calls during it's first month of operation.

Awful nice of Mr. Mares to return your call while on vacation!

Why do you think these complexes (since it does seem like two separate ideas that are being studied) would require a bed tax, either existing or future? Why could it not be part of the county budget?

I would expect that revenues in the county would pick up once the economy turns around, and the budget might allow for something like this.

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Interesting. Love the intensity of this board, everyone here has great connections and insight. I haven't read the RFP yet as I just saw the post, but I can't wait to see what's up!

This was JUST POSTED YESTERDAY...
Sports Economic Impact

Posted: 9:09 PM Jul 30, 2009
Last Updated: 9:09 PM Jul 30, 2009
Reporter: Tim Owens
Email Address: tim.owens@wjhg.com

When it comes to sports in Panama City Beach, there's something for everyone.
We're getting closer and closer to becoming a 12 month sports destination. Our main bread and butter is youth baseball and youth fast pitch, we're real big in cheerleading. We got two months in June and July, just week after week of cheerleading camps. And thousands of kids are involved in that, so we're in a little bit of everything. Today it's generating almost 40 million dollars economic impact for the community, over a hundred thousand room nights and that's a tremendous impact, especially in some of our shoulder season times
Then toss in triathlons, swimming, fishing tournaments, and soccer among other sports are bringing thousands of first time visitors to the area!
And our sporting events here, we are every year, reaching over 40 states within the United States, and the good thing is they do want to come back.
A big reason for all this, Frank Brown Park, built in the early 80's, renovated in the 90's and again in the past few years.
Without a doubt one of the finest multi-recreational facilities in the United States. There's also four brand new tennis courts, 4 outdoor basketball courts, 7 soccer fields, a mile and a half waking trail, it's just a facility we're very proud of.

We have the opportunity especially with the airport opening May of next year, that's gonna open up a whole new avenue of what we do up another level.

I found this while researching news on the topic.

That's a lot of economic imact. I'm going to look closer at the stats to see how they add up.

On come on now. They are tourists. They can not vote. But they can pay. Bleeding them dry seems to be the way of most Florida counties.

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It's modeled after the "Disney" experience.

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A few more stories of economic impact. ... Gulf Shores

The positives at this point are economic (yeah it would bring a large amount of people into an area that may not appreciate the overflow, but...). I have not looked into the bed tax, but with this kind of attendance, it would seem like an additional bedtax could be a possibility. There are many other ways to pay though, so I'll post some examples as I find them.

The Alabama Sports Festival held at the end of June in Birmingham produced an estimated economic impact in excess of $16 million. The event attracted 6,000 athletes and 12,000 visitors to the city. Athletes used 29 Birmingham area sports venues to compete in basketball, archery, cycling, lacrosse, gymnastics, soccer, diving, wrestling and other sports competitions. The Alabama Sports Festival is the state’s largest multi-sport event with 20 different sports being represented and was a featured event of state tourism’s Year of Alabama Sports promotion. www.alagames.com


The Alabama Gulf Coast Sports Commission brought 28 unique sports events to the Gulf Shores/Orange Beach area in 2008. These events brought in an additional 10,081 room nights and resulted in a total tourism impact of $3,004,227. “The growth of this niche tourism market has had an obvious positive impact on our expanding shoulder season,” said Herb Malone, president/CEO of the Alabama Gulf Coast Convention and Visitors Bureau (CVB). “Last year was the first full year of the sports commission functioning as a department within the CVB, and I think the results show that this move was a great decision. Plus, our area is fortunate to have a large selection of top-notch facilities, thanks to the Cities of Gulf Shores and Orange Beach.”

Showcasing these facilities along with the other destination amenities is a key component in the sports commission’s work. One of the commission’s highlights for 2008 was the AHSAA 4A-6A State Track Championships that brought 1,500 high school athletes from around the state to the Gulf Shores Sportsplex. “This championship was one of our area’s most successful events for the year,” said Beth Gendler, director of sales for the CVB. “The event generated over 1,200 room nights for the area, which ultimately resulted in a $377,000 tourism impact. With numbers like these, you can see why we are excited to host this event for the next three years.”

The sports commission is a partnership between the Alabama Gulf Coast Convention and Visitors Bureau, the Alabama Gulf Coast Area Chamber of Commerce and the cities of Gulf Shores and Orange Beach. For more information visit www.alabamabeachsports.com

This is just another sample market, I haven't factored in the projected area yet...

So if we took what the average collections are now and then looked at the projected growth by getting people here in the off season, that should be more than enough to pay for the venue at the current tax rate without an additional increase.

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Wouldn't it be great if you could just turn that in for the RFP and everyone was happy?!

One word- vision.

Wouldn't it be amazing if more people around here had it.

Vision for the people actually living here,

Vision for the people trying to get more people to buy homes here.

Vision for the people who try to get more visitors to come here.

Sure would. IMO that is one of the missing ingredients...

somewhere, though, there is a huge file with Vision 2020 on the front of it...many of us worked for weeks on that project back in 1999-2000--and as far as I know, nothing ever came of it.

Now, the powers that be in local government have cranked up yet another Vision project...and when I inquired about what happened to all the info from the other one, I was told that information "was no longer relevant"...

I guess I just don't see how a Vision developed for 2020, in 2000, can be completely out of date in 2009---

Maybe someone can enlighten me...

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"If people cannot write well, they cannot think well, and if they cannot think well, others will do their thinking for them."
George Orwell

people, people your vision is a reality today a Hammock Bay. 3000 acres ball fields tennis courts swimming pools nature trails fitness centers and some of the lowest housing cost and amenities fees in Florida.

Vision an electric bus loading children every afternoon from the southside education centers for the short trek across scenic 331 to a bay side park unequaled and provided by a visionary ahead of his time.

and no investment $$ needed for studies or building of or the day to day operation of the facilities on the part of an overtaxed citizenry.

My neighbor is involved in a baseball camp further north of us that houses children from all over the world, mainly China, because the facility is not located in a resort area. A multi Sports complex in a resort area will have no bounds and with the international airport nearing completion, with the right marketing, this could be a huge boon for the area. I can't tell you how seriously other countries take their youth sports. Couple that with sports tournaments and such inter-state and the cultural arts section... wow.
I hope whoever they decide to use for the feasibility study also examines the international aspect of this well.

Check out page 28 of the pdf link above. It has the different sports broken down by acreage. I tried to copy and paste it.

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One thing to remember with youth sports events is that it's not always kids + parents on the trip. It's frequently kids + chaperone that may or may not adequately supervise the young athletes. My parents' condo complex has had to kick out a team from one of the post-Christmas high school basketball tournaments for several years running because of inadequate supervision from the alleged responsible adults involved and the kids doing moderately dumb stuff unchecked.

This is such a good idea it is scary that it is being considered. Our area promotes family oriented tourism, so having sports activities for youth will bring in large numbers of families and participants. Adult sports bring in large crowds as well. If scheduled right the project could provide needed relief during non-peak months.

The bottom line is...

Is it worthwhile to add an additional bedtax to pay for a long-term investment in the community?

What are the benefits?

Economically: The facility attracts nonresident visitors who spend money in the local community both inside and outside of the events and facilities they visit. This new outside money creates income and jobs for community residents (via economic impact), thus completing the cycle.


Good will... Yes, competetive sports are income producing, but another wonderful benefit is that they provide outreach possibilites for the local community. Is is also an alternative to the beach that may extend the stay of visitors during off-season months.

Desired result: When community residents, and seasonal "guests" provide the initial funds, the return on investment is in the form of new jobs and more household income that come from the greater economic impact of the project. This could provide another desperately needed funding source during the shoulder seasons.

The purpose of the economic-impact studies (in the posts above) is to measure the economic return to residents. This has been lightly illustrated in the few case studies by PCB and Gulf Shores

The return is farther reaching then just an indoor pool and some additional playing fields.

Additional "sharing" possibilities, and site/event attraction will come from: local college programs, highschool athletics, regional tournaments, international events.

The possibilities are wide and varied.



...Still researching, and will share a few more case studies as I find them.

It sounds like a wonderful idea. I can't tell you how many families we know from north Georgia that make the yearly trek to Panama City because their son or daughter is playing in a big baseball or softball tournament there. Plus the average stay is one week minimum - if games get rained out and have to be rescheduled - it lasts longer. Most of these families make it their yearly vacation.

We have that now with parents who won't, can't, don't control their kids.

PCB's Frank Brown Park pulls in youths from as far away as TX for tournaments (that is another story in itself). If Walton County is trying to do the same, I'd like someone to tell me how Walton County is going to steal those tournaments and people from PCB. Is there enough tournament biz to have two facilities that close in proximity, competing for the same biz?

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It is mostly baseball and softball tournaments at Frank Brown, so there are other tournaments that can and do generate local revenue. "Soccer by the Surf", US98 Soccer's and South Walton Montessori's non-profit fundraising partnership, managed to attract a team from Mississippi in its inaugural debut this past June. But I agree, we may not want to directly compete with Frank Brown's focus on baseball and softball. There are other options.

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www.us98soccer.com

One thing that would be a perfect fit for the area is crew. My sister, the former rower, comes down here and drools over the idea of taking a shell out on the intracoastal or the Bay on calm days. In college, her team would do a winter training camp in Tampa every year, and their protected waters don't have anything the protected waters here don't have.

A couple of service academies already base out of Eglin for training trips. It would be awesome if they could draw more teams down here for a series of regattas.

Crew is a great idea. Anyone else?

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www.us98soccer.com

IMO, the proposed complex is much needed, although I am concerned we are going to tax the visitors right out of Sowal. As it stands now, guests are charged 11.5% total tax when they check in.

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"The only thing worse than being stood up is dating." NoHall

"If you are going to be stupid, you better be tough".
Sunspotbaby

already happening. Know several families from Miss. have been coming to soccer tournaments with kids for years. they are all engineers with big oil companies. they all stay in FWB for the better family rates.

There are other resources besides the county to look to.

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www.us98soccer.com

we already have a world class water ski facility provided by the private sector. We have the yolo boys another private sector company providing a fun product for even the fattest out of shape tourists. We have eco fishing and kayaking companies providing excellent natural experiences. How bout some canopy zip lines through the state forest to go along wih the horse back riding camping hiking that is already here. save the 102 acres of natural woods. enough ball fields in neighboring counties and like i said before if your vision includes that stuff there is another private sector development called Hammock Bay that offers everything mentioned in the rfp.

Hammock Bay is too far away to be considered a destination sports vacation draw, and it really does not serve the residents of South Walton except for some of the hardcore adult soccer players who go up there, many of which are single, young guys who don't have the need to worry about a nearly all day soccer commitment.

The benefits to having a South Walton Family Sportsplex are many and not just to those visiting for tournaments. In fact, I'd say the benefits would be more for the permanent residents than the vacationers, but it would appeal to and draw both. That in turn creates revenue producing opportunities for a large portion of local businesses and residents.

Personally, I'd rather have a quality sports and cultural arts facility in South Walton than any more strip malls. One of the ways to preserve the standard of living and beauty of this area would be to capitalize on the increasing demand for sports and arts related activities and organizations, so we could avoid making US98 look like Destin or PCB along that corridor. I agree we should preserve as much of the natural beauty of the area as possible, but having a strategically located Family Sportsplex that serves resident and vacationer alike, and a master plan for developing sports facilities in South Walton in general, could go a long way towards helping us avoid the mistakes that other communities have made in growing their communities and developing their landscapes.

In my opinion, promoting healthy lifestyles goes hand in hand with preserving natural landscapes. If South Walton decides to embrace the idea of becoming one of THE preeminent sports vacation destinations in the Southeast (arguably the country, or even the world), it will be to its benefit. But let's do it the South Walton way, and provide something that is so uniquely attractive, and not just some cookie cutter plan, that we preserve not only the natural beauty, but our community's exceptional approach to thinking, working, and living.

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www.us98soccer.com

then let's do it from within the private sector! The area around the high school might work which makes me wonder why the middle school is 5 miles away. Let's put a moratorium on strip malls. I agree a sports complex is not the worst idea walco has. but making it purty still just makes us Bayco-okalooco Junior. We have the Seaside Rep already the ogden musuem, private galleries galore, the auditorium at the high school with ball fields and gyms. The middle school has footbal softball baseball and tennis and a pond. Coordinate your tourneys at those places in conjunction with local school kids.

Just to get you up to speed, Emerald Coast Middle School will be moving to an area just east of Bay Elementary soon, and I believe Butler Elementary will take over that whole facility. We have a Northwest Florida State campus that looks like it is well under way in the area you reference, and apparently the Boys & Girls Club will be developing the land just behind the Library.

Does there need to be more and better communication between the County, Parks & Rec, the local Schools (which are not part of or associated with Parks & Rec), Northwest Florida State, the Boys & Girls Club, and now SWAF (South Walton Athletic Foundation), which is now in charge of scheduling and managing the Helen McCall facility? No doubt about it.

But it does not change the fact that we would benefit, undeniably in many ways, from having additional facilities for those sports and arts that are either currently not served or underserved. You not only make these facilities "purty", you use smart development to strategically locate, design, and construct them. Bayco Junior? No thank you.

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www.us98soccer.com

Answer the following question:

Which county has a bed tax of 11.5%?

1.) Bay County
2.) Walton County
3.) Okaloosa County

Careful it's a trick question.

Extra credit if you can name which one raised it to that level last.

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Using WCSB facilities will and should cost for use. Also there are possible liability issues and there are not enough fields in one place to have that sports destination. Build the facility, and pattern it after a successful complex and bring a professional to operate/ manage it.

In another place, in another time, when I was young, the facilities used by the school district (football field, baseball diamond, auditorium) did not belong to the school district, they belonged to the county, which had a usage agreement with the school district. The schools had practice fields for football, baseball, soccer, but they played their games in county facilities, which were also used by rec leagues, private schools, etc. We had an indoor pool, which the school used for classes but was open to the public the rest of the time. We had a downtown auditorium, which was much more professional than the auditoriums at the schools and could hold more people.

Do you realize what the overall utilization of our school facilities are, especially now, in the height of the tourist season? We have some very expensive facilities which are used by a school which has less than 500 students. We let the school board build them because they get federal help, and now we are going to do the same thing at the new middle school (aka, the kick@ss school with great facilities and no teachers).

As for the overall concept, I'd love to see South Walton market our ecotourism in a concerted effort. We could be the Costa Rica of the US; here, your kids can take surfing lessons one day, YOLO lessons the next, learn to kayak the river the next, learn to surf fish, go deep sea fishing, all in one week.

We do have a world class, private ski facility - we have friends that come there with teams, and they stay in Ft. Walton because "it's so much cheaper". I put that in quotes because I am not positive it's true, but that's their perception - when they are coming with a team of 5 kids, they get two motel rooms in Ft. Walton.

Unless this has changed, I don't think school property can be used for the type of things that are being talked about here. I heard 98 Soccer was charged or going to be charged for the use of Helen McCall for a fundraiser. I thought and still do think that sucks. But are we not talking about this new facility to be sustaining financially. Back in my youth, school property was not used outside school function except for the auditorium which could be rented.

Right, what I meant was, that in my part of the world, it was the reverse - these were public facilities which the school district used, not school facilities which the public used. If we are charging the public for certain uses now of "public" facilities, the charges are probably for cleanup or some such additional cost which the county would have (or, we're just charging whenever we can because we need the money).

When you say, "we are not talking about this new facility to be sustaining financially", I get a pit at the bottom of my stomach. We would be talking about operating a facility out of the TDC taxes, which we ASSUME would be a certain $$ amount over a number of years. Assuming that tax revenues would be a certain $$ amount is what got us where we are today.

No, I am talking about user fees or the TDC would need to run with their revenue, they seem to be operating at least with the contract with the Fire District the Lifeguards, even with the addition of more beach. I would still want to find out how other successful sporting complexes operate.

the families i referenced base their stay on total charges not just highest or lowest bed tax rate so i did not mean to imply that. 2 nites on 30a for a weekend soccer tourney just isn't budget friendly. Trick question for you. Who will be the first to raise it to 12%?

Everything has a cost. More people will eventually mean more Taco Hells, McDougald's, Burger Queens and Dairy Kings. Go ahead and plan on Dick's (sporting goods), and Best Buy, and Not-so Super Walmart will surely see all of the profit in selling everyone towels, shovels, etc. I personally, don't enjoy three rows of beach umbrellas when I sit on the beach.

I love the economic impact it would have on our area, but I don't like the cost, and I am not talking $$$. I think we could use a public swimming pool or two in our community, as well as a few basketball and tennis courts, (without lights), and maybe abbreviated rec fields here or there. However, I would love for us to use the parks we already have. We have miles and miles of off road trails which could be more heavily utilized for running and biking. We have numerous water sources for many water sport activities. Why not feature what we have instead of trying to be like everyone else. I'd rather see physical fitness stations along 30A and in the trails of the Parks. I'd like to see kayak racing. What about teaching our kids about the rare ecosystem we have? We have no biology groups for kids here, (maybe that will change with the biofilia center in Freeport). Where are the naturists groups for kids? There is so much to explore here, but so many kids are stuck on their PS2. Multi-sport facilities could be good, but I think we already have some great fields, if we just open our eyes to see them. Traditional sports are so not SoWal, in my opinion.

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I understand your thoughts about traditional sports, and yes it would be cool to have the kayak team, but communities with families and schools have traditional sports, and many families participate at both the recreational and competitive level. Every community has strong traditional sports programs- that's not to say we couldn't have other sports, but football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, softball, soccer,golf, track and cross country are the backbone. I would love to see field hockey, lacrosse, crew, sailing.....

The thought of a real public pool makes me drool. That would be a sign that we "really exist" in SoWal!

I am really interested in hearing some more thoughts on the arts center. Bdarg mentioned the other day that maybe a thought for South Walton niche marketing would be calling us "The Cultural Coast" or something similar that highlights our cultural gifts- quality music, theatre, and art.

I like that -- the "Cultural Coast!" Arts center would be awesome.

The pool I understand, or maybe more than one. However, I thought traditional sports are being played by kids at schools - basketball, football, baseball, softball, volleyball, track, cross country. We have those in South Walton, or most of them, I think. The public schools have these facilities, or access to them, already, without spending a dime extra. If they would open those venues to the public when not being used by students, we could also benefit. I've been yelling this for years.

I really don't believe that sports should be restricted to kids, and would love to have another excuse to exercise. Opening up existing, underused fields, would seem the logical answer. Practice fields at UGA were open to the public for use when teams were not using them, and the citizens took advantage of the opportunity to use the facilities. That, in my opinion, is what community is about. We have limited financial resources, and it is about time we began to use the facilities for which we are paying.

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So then the, generally, lowest charge of bed tax doesn't play into your scenario.

As to the trick question, my monies on Okaloosa.

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Sports are different now than when we were kids. Many sports are practically year round, and many kids play on school teams and comp or rec teams outside of school. Personally, that lifestyle is not for my family, but we are friends with many families here and around the country whose lives pretty much revolve around the kids' sports and traveling every weekend, etc. We have good friends in KY- all 3 boys played uber-competitive soccer, and played for their school teams. Boys 1 & 2 got full rides to Vassar and UA-Huntsville. The cost was the family split apart every weekend to attend multiple soccer tournaments- they were never in town and never together. But many families choose this route, and many families moving here expect this level of sports.

Say goodbye to real summer vacations- the kids are on the road, or not allowed to leave due to practice schedules. But that is the way things are now. Many family vacations revolve around tournaments.

Oh and BTW- I like "Cultural Coast " too. It is our cultural offerings that differentiate us from the neighboring areas.

I guess the thing to do is google:

community aquatic centers

indoor aquatic centers

So I can try to figure out how these things are paid for. Maybe a combination of user fees and corporate sponsorships. Do it with the Rec plat fee money instead of another park where two roads meet in the north end.

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You might try Google ! Massachusetts Beat You To It !

CC.jpg

Massachusetts Cultural Coast

This was such a eye opening and interesting thread to read...until the last post. Wow, so helpful.

I love bdarg's idea...The Beaches of South Walton, The Cultural Coast!

This group of posters have great vision!

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

How many families are moving here, period? I thought that the school population was dropping.

And how many families "expect" this level of sports? And why should their expectations be funded by tourists, exactly?

That truly was a trick question, being as the answer is "none of the above."

And total tax is already at 12% in Bay County.

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The last time I checked, the Massachusetts Cultural Coast is not in Florida.

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SJ - I agree that Its not in Florida but we are now competing for tourist in an ever increasing target market. Branding has been and will continue to be a major portion of destination marketing. People google today and although I personally like the Phrase Cultural Coast it has been and continues to be marketed in the same areas where the TDC is headed to expand markets.

Many here are talking about Vision as if they are the only people that possess it. I believe that one must remember that the same group that has a Vision for Sports Complexes and Cultural Centers are the same people that had a vision that lead to the now infamous Big Blue Signs.

One should not confuse their vision of attracting more people to the area with a concern for our community and its full time residents. You spoke very directly to the potential costs associated with quality of life for residents once we build such facilities with marketing the area, bring more people here, filling the coffers with cash at the cost of a decrease in the true quality of life.

The TDC has one purpose - bringing more people here and their track records shows that their sensitivity to the "uniqueness of the area" is secondary to their primary mission. (Big Blue Signs come to mind)

I would rather have a "vision" of improving the quality of life, expanding the sense of community with a project developed for full time residents first and tourism second.

That I could support, would support and will be willing to pay my share of the costs to build and operate. If we are always willing to allow others to provide the necessary dollars to build develop and operate, we will get facilities built to attract tourist rather than improving the quality of life for our children and grandchildren.

That was a good post, I.G. I think unfortunately some people on both sides of the fence (like the idea or hate the idea) en-vision a giant monstrosity that sticks out like a sore thumb in plain view of US98 and all that live here.

I think there are other options, and we can do better than that. The idea of a Sportsplex, or perhaps smaller facilities spread out over the county, to serve the community first and to attract vacationer and full time residents alike is not a novel concept and not an idea that the TDC came up with all on their lonesome to stick it to the locals while lining their coffers. There are some genuine needs here now, which include more and better athletic, cultural arts, and entertainment facilities, and there is legitimate interest in making sure it is done right so that we take full advantage of and build on what makes South Walton this uniquely fantastic place we call home, and not ruin it.

Every summer and every year people consider whether they would like to make this their home, just as all of us have. And there are certainly no shortages of homes or lots in developments that they could take advantage of, instead of them sitting there empty. It is up to us as members of this community to make sure any growth is done responsibly, and I think that is ultimately what people want through the proposal of these athletic and arts facilities. Infrastructure such as this is important, and it may not be for everyone (I doubt everyone uses the library as well), but undoubtedly will enrich many of the lives of those who live here, as well as those who visit.

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www.us98soccer.com

It's not just school kids who would use an indoor sports facility in Sowal - it's not only a draw, but it's a great health/fitness resource for the community as a whole. Water aerobics for seniors, swimming lessons or swim team for kids, evening sports leagues, you name it.

I know I would regularly use a facility with an indoor pool, tennis courts, raquetball, a track etc.

Yes, nature and parks are a nice way to get exercise, but not when it's rainy, buggy, hot, dark, red flag, jellyfishy, winter etc.

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The enemy is ignorance.

Plus, the term "preventive medicine" comes to mind. More health and fitness options, more healthy and fit people (of any age), less of our community in the hospital, hospice, and/or visiting doctors, and less of a financial cost to all of us.

Just one of many indirect benefits.

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www.us98soccer.com

Are you sure about Bay Counties total tax ? It appears to be 11%. 6% sales tax (no local option sales tax) + 5% bedtax.

looks like from the chart that of the 102 acres only half will be developed and the other half left as "wetland"...sure wish they would give us some parcel numbers.

We were told by one TDC Board member that they have not located the land at this time and the project may need to be spread over 2 sites, but that is unconfirmed.

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Thank You Walton County !
Our Hotline received 1168 calls during it's first month of operation.

Luckily they didn't throw the TM on the end so it's up for grabs.

Thanks, forgot about their increase for the low cost air carrier.

Take another Aricept. I'll go with the expert here.

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I will also go with the expert and wait for her to answer the question.

Your constant reference to Aricept is growing old. I am not ashamed or embarassed with my medical diagnosis.
Posted via Mobile Device

I checked with my buddy in Bay County to be sure. Properties located in the city of Panama City Beach have an additional 1% tax, collected directly by the city of PCB. This brings the total to 12%.

We didn't discuss Mexico Beach, but I imagine it is 11% there.

The bed tax is not collected in Panama City proper, or the total would be over 13%. I know that the total sales tax at Target/Kohl's and at Sam's is different, but in both spots it is over 8%.

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So the 12% is a combination of a 6% sales tax, 5% bedtax, and a 1% License fee levied by the City of Panama City Beach.

Thank you so much oh expert one !

One of those places, I think PC Beach, has a 1% merchant fee, not a tax. Something that I think is only done in two places in the State. Do not know how that falls in the big picture.

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Bay County considers PCB's to be a tax; perhaps I should check with my friends at DOR to be sure. But if we are speaking of merchant fees, there are at least three neighborhoods in SoWal that charge those. One of those is at 2%.

Where it really gets funn is when you have to explain to a homeowner in one of those "neighborhoods" that tax must be charged on the merchant fee. That tends to draw a negative response.

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What, there are communities that have merchant fees, that must devastate business and keep tourist from going there. I am sure it is a blighted neighborhood and those businesses are closing their doors left and right.

Do we really want to spend money on world renown sport complexes in an effort to bring even more tourists here? SoWal sometimes feels like one gigantic hotel. I'd much prefer we concentrate on building facilities that promote our community, rather than tourism. Particularly facilities that serve the needs of our full-time residents, especially the families that live here.

Local community oriented facilities usually aren’t that expensive. A community pool, a baseball diamond where it’s needed, a soccer field – all good long term investments because they attract full time residents that pay taxes and help build a better, more close knit community of friends and neighbors. (This kind of community can also help promote tousim because people want to feel like they are part of it.)

If we keep headed down the road we are on, where 70% of SoWal residents only live here one week out of the year, we’ll lose what makes this area so unique.

Also, please consider that (as has been pointed out) one of the surest ways to siphon tourists away from neighboring counties is to lower tourist taxes, not increase them. Particularly if you're interesting in attracting middle income folks looking for a reasonably priced family vacation at the beach.

Until we can bring in industry to provide jobs to our area, tourism is what provides employment to our citizens, As for the reduction in taxes for tourism, the comments about area having a merchant fee, example is Baytowne Wharf, does not seem to impact them doing business. If anything because of it they have ongoing events and music and fireworks which seems to attract people to spend money there. I like the idea of a sports and even an art complex as long as it would help the local economy. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money. I want to see 331 bridge widened but not at the expense of having a toll bridge, thats like taxing those folks making $10.00 hour cleaning rental units, or county employee making $25k a year having to pay twice a day, 5 days a week to go to work. At least the possibility is this complex could potentially be self sustaining and locals would be able to use it also. The truck stop on I 10 was assisted with tax breaks to open and when it was closed the County lost significant revenue.

There are countless ways to do that that don't involve building some huge, artsy fartsy arts complex that a mjority of full time residents won't find useful.

#1 top option if all you want to do is increase tourism and tax revenue at the expense of community - legalize gambling on the bay. (Or convince Bay County to do it.) That would generate hundreds of million of tax revenue, provide tens of thousands of jobs, and would also alow us to lower property and sales taxes.

As far as merchant taxes go, taxing small businesses create more problems that they solve. If you really want to generate revenue for something you feel you would use or need, be honest about it a support an increase in the sales tax so that everyone pays their fair share.

[quote=SWGB;594461]Luckily they didn't throw the TM on the end so it's up for grabs.



Thanks, forgot about their increase for the low cost air carrier.



Take another Aricept. I'll go with the expert here.[/quote]

SWGB.......keep it up and you will be some sort of bait......Gator, Shark, etc...it might be time to file down that sharp tongue of yours. We may not always agree with IG, but I have to say, IMO, that was a mean comment. Whay is up with you????

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"The only thing worse than being stood up is dating." NoHall

"If you are going to be stupid, you better be tough".
Sunspotbaby

Isn't there a merchant fee in Rosemary, Seaside, Gulf Place and Bawtown? And I thought that they were optional.