Alan Osborne

Did anyone know that in 1998 and 1999 the county allowed Sandestin to change 13.5 acres of dedicated public school site land to Medium to high Density residential neighborhood in parcel 442, because the land wasn't needed for a school. The proceeds were supposed to go back to the county but I can't find a record of it. Isn't it nice that Sandestin needed density more than the public needed a school site. The letter is dated Feb 23, 1998 and is available in the public record.

AAbsolute

What about the Sandestin Academy? Is that still around, does it count as a school?

MissCritter

I attended a meeting in 2004 in which it was stated by a county school official that "families with children were no longer moving into south Walton" so there was no need to enlarge or add to existing facilities.

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The man who does not read books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain

Alan Osborne

According to the development order it was a designated public scool site from 1976 until given away in 1998/1999. It has nothing to do with any academy.

jdarg

We are obviously not going to get the land back, so are you trying to find out who received the proceeds? And how much?

Alan Osborne

I think this should have been a noticed public special hearing, but be that as it may, I asked the BCC last night did we ever recieve payment and how much. For reference parcel 442 is Mack bayou point subdivision. That whole area was suppossed to be a school site. You can see the video on the Walton Democratic web site under commissioners video.

jdarg

Thanks. Is someone looking into the answers to your questions?

Alan Osborne

Don't know yet, BCC makes a habit of not answering my questions. Guess they are too hard.

ShallowsNole

No "official" answers here, but I remember bits and pieces from 1998/1999. The County Government center on 331 was underway. I do not remember if SWHS had been approved at that point or not, but the general consensus was that there was plenty of land in the "Town Center" for one or two centrally located schools. Butler Elementary was in business, the middle school kids were at Bay, and nobody foresaw the need for more.

I vagely remember someone saying that Sandestin was too far west for a school. There was also something about archaeology brought up. Not long afterward, two of my friends contracted with Adams Homes to build at Mack Bayou Pointe.

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scooterbug44

Did you do a spit take when you heard that?

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

ShallowsNole

I want to say I was at the same meeting.

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Alan Osborne

My question to the BCC, was who got the proceeds of the Sale? It was supposed to go to the county. But I can find no record of it. Wouldn't be the first time a developer failed to do what they said. This burden on the taxpayers must stop.

MissCritter

Yes, I did.

Not something you'd forget.

I edited my post to indicate it was probably more like 2004 when that statement was made. Either way. . . .

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The man who does not read books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain

FF 2

Curious, does anyone remeber who was on the board at the time?

Susan Horn

What's a spit take?

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

jdarg

I heard it at a school board meeting just last year. A comment was made about not having enough kids to put at the new middle school (not by a school board member). I thought "Hello? What about the hundreds of elementary schools kids in SoWal? Do they just skip middle school and go to high school?"

Ahhh...vision and looking ahead.

scooterbug44

When you are drinking something and someone says something so ridiculous you spray your beverage back out.

Comedy classic........................and quite common when reading Lounge posts.

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

ShallowsNole

IIRC, it was Donnie Richardson, Jerry (Mr. Cecelia) Jones, Darrell Barnhill, Mildred Wilkerson and Mark Davis. It may have been Bill Laird instead of Jerry Jones; I don't remember what year Bill won.

For what it is worth, that was the statistic the Department of Education used when they advised that a high school south of the Bay was not warranted. Our board decided to build it anyway, and they proved DOE wrong. Look who is at capacity now!

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ShallowsNole

Generally speaking, there were MANY people not pleased in NoWal when SWHS was built, and I expect to hear more about ECMS because of the economy.

I once got chewed out AT A TAILGATE IN TALLAHASSEE by a guy from DeFuniak after South Walton High School opened. He didn't like the name, as there is only one Walton High School, and it is the flagship school of this county, and people from across the bay get everything they want, yada yada yada.

I replied that Walton High should be renamed DeFuniak Springs High, as everyone from Glendale/Liberty north now sends their children to Paxton instead.

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jdarg

That makes me so sad. From what I have heard and now seen, we are playing catchup down here, facilities-wise.

Alan Osborne

Look the deed is already done. I found this in the Sandestin Development order and simply wanted to ask the questions; where is the letter they quote (I can't find it), who signed it, and did the proceeds from the sale of the land in 1998/1999 get returned to the county? If they can't prove that this occured, then I'd simply say something is wrong here. Anybody have a problem with a little accountability to the public? This should be an easy answer for the county and as of tonight I haven't heard a word. (...cricket, ...cricket...).

"An occasional audit is good for the government's soul."

It's time we put partisanship behind us and tried really hard to work on responsible citizenship.

Alan

North Lake

Alan,

Do you have a tax parcel number for the property? 24-2S-21-42000-045-0010 is 13.2 acres in the bend of Mack Bayou Road abutting Sandestin that the County sold to the Muscogee Nation of Florida, but that was in 1989. That parcel is described as Archaeological Preserve in the legal description. Where exactly is Parcel 442? I searched the Clerk's OR transactions for Walton County School Board and Walton County School District for all of 1998 and 1999, and there are no sales transactions recorded during that time in the Mack Bayou/Sandestin area.

If it were just a FLUM or density change, proceeds would not necessarily have changed hands.

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Leave early and you won't be stuck in traffic.

North Lake

You might also check with the School Board for their minutes back in 1998. Minutes are only available back to 2001 on their website. They could have abandoned their "claim" to a school site in that area of the DRI based on the archeological preserve status; but never had actual ownership of the property. The Muscogee 13.2 acres abuts the Mack Bayou Pointe S/D, just to the south. If any money was paid, it probably went to the School Board, not the BCC since the BCC had sold the land to Muscogee Nation in 1989. Noticed in the BCC minutes that Mack Bayou Pointe S/D wasn't platted until 2002.

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Leave early and you won't be stuck in traffic.

jdarg

Was this a school board issue or BCC?

Alan Osborne

Because it's was part of a NOPC it had to come thru the BCC. But the Money should have gone to the school board.

Dune Laker,
I'm aware of the other 13.2 acres, that should have always been tribal land, it's fenced off now when you come thru the "S" curve on Mack Bayou. The letter is clear that the parcel that came to be known as Mack Bayou pointe was a public school site and the proceeds from the sale of it was supposed to be turned over to the school board. Read the letter in the public records, It will make you go HMMMMM.
Alan

ShallowsNole

Yes and no. Although this strays from Mr. Osborne's topic, we've had issues, but so have the schools in NoWal. Walton High definitely deserves their new building (even though my brothers refer to the current Walton High as the "new" school). Walton Middle, which occupies the site of the original Walton High School, went 30 years without a/c in the gymnasium. Paxton had bats in the ceiling a few years back.

With the exception of Bay Elementary (which my mom almost single-handedly saved when it was closed in the late 1960's; had it remained closed, there is no way it would have ever been reopened as a school again), our facilities are newer and nicer - they are just bursting at the seams.

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Alan Osborne

North Lake,
All that sounds good, but 442 is clearly identified in the NOPC as the parcel Sandestin has to turn over the proceeds from the sale. I think it was sold as a parcel not until the current owner Intrawest got rid of it. Parcel 442 brought a lot of money in 1992 so if either the school board or the BCC doesn't have a reciept for it, I'd say intrawest owes the county a large sum of money or 13.5 acres in Sandestin. It's either one of the other. Who knows, maybe they already paid them, but I can't find a record of it. I just want to know who authorized it, and did the paymet occur. Simple Question, I've already waited 4 days.

Andy A.

Your problem, Alan, is you ask too many reponsible and relative questions of our elected officials. Don't you know we are suppose to sit back, relax and let them take care of us. Yeah, right.

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Congress only does two things well...Nothing at all and overreacting.

idlewind

My question is why are you asking the BCC? Wouldn't the proceeds and control of the parcel go to the School Board? Looks like you may be playing gotcha with the wrong entity.

North Lake

Alan,
Well, it still doesn't answer the mail...but getting closer.
APRIL 14, 1998 - REGULAR BCC MEETING
Commissioner Young called to order the advertised public hearing regarding the proposed change to an approved Development of Regional Impact (DRI) for Sandestin.
Mr. Jim Rester appeared before the Board and requested that the Board approve the transfer of 96 units of density from Sandestin's master plan and withhold the approval of the total order until final DRI approval.
Mr. Gary Billingsly, School Board Member, appeared before the Board and stated that the School Board felt that it would be in the best interest to sell the donated property and place the money in an Instructional Communications and Technology Fund to be spent for South Walton area schools.
Mr. Jack Bludworth, Superintendent of Schools, stated that the agreement for the property was adopted by the School Board by resolution 97-16.
Mr. James Foley, Committee for Community Based Education, stated that he feels the property is too far to the west end of the County and requested an independent appraisal be conducted on the property and any funds from the sell of the property be placed in a separate trust fund and not for technology purposes.
Motion by Commissioner Porter, second by Vice-Chairman Butler, to approve the density change and withhold the final order. Ayes 5, Nayes 0. Porter Aye, Infinger Aye, Paul Aye, Butler Aye, Young Aye.

MAY 12, 1998 - REGULAR BCC MEETING
Mr. Jim Rester, Sandestin Resorts, presented the amendments to the master plan for Sandestin. Mr. Rester stated that the changes are not substantial and requested the Commissioners to approve an ordinance which approves the filing of the new master plan. Attorney Miller advised that the master plan is in order.
Motion by Commissioner Infinger, second by Vice-Chairman, to accept the amendments to the master plan and approve the ordinance. Ayes 5, Nayes 0. Porter Aye, Infinger Aye, Paul Aye, Butler Aye, Young Aye.

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Leave early and you won't be stuck in traffic.

Alan Osborne

No,
This came about as part of an NOPC. By law the county is supposed to monitor the DRI changes and report any noncompliance to the DCA for enforcement. Once again, look who told the BCC, that everything with the DRI was in order. (Nothlake's post) He is a common theme in these problems IMHO. It becomes the school board issue once they get the money, that it goes where it's intended.
Alan

Alan Osborne

wrobert

DeFuniak is getting their revenge. 44 million dollar high school for 900 students.

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ShallowsNole

Perhaps they won't have to close Walton Middle in order to fill it.

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mdd88jd

Alan: It took some time but I got the details on the money from the land in Sandestin. The land was originally set aside in Sandestin's DRI for a school site. Although we had an academy at Sandestin for a number of years, I am not sure that we used this particular site for the academy. In planning for the new South Walton High School, we decided that the site at Sandestin was too small for any full use school. When we finished building the new South Walton High School, we closed the academy and move those kids to the new high school. Sandestin asked if they got the property's use changed in their DRI and sold the property, could they donate the proceeds to the school district. Obviously we accepted the proposal. On August 26, 1997, we passed a Resolution 97-16 in which we agreed to the proposal and that the funds would go to the Walton County Instructional Communications and Technology Foundation, Inc. The foundation was set up to raise funds to pay for technology and communications equipment for our schools.


The foundantion received $268,066.00 on November 19, 1998. Of that amount, $58,003.00 went to V.R. Butler Elementary, $22,000.00 went to Freeport High, $69,216.00 to Bay School, $58,800 to Sandestin Academy (eventually part of South Walton High School), $2,603 to Paxton School and $5,000.00 to West DeFuniak Elementary School. The balance of $52,444.00 was subsequently, in later years, split among the various schools. It looks like that balance of the money was used as late as 2003 for various technology grants to the schools.

As for the price received, I really do not remember whether there were questions about the amount received or not. I hope this information is useful or at least let you know what happened to the money we received from Sandestin. Thanks.

Alan Osborne

Thanks Mark, as always you are well researched, but I still have questions. Was there a fair market value and apprasial prior to sale? It sold for 317,000 or 25K per acre? If the school system got 268K what happened to the other 49K. How come this sale isn't on the Tax roles? Who decided the price. Insanely cheap for Sandestin property that is high and Dry. I got the paperwork and no Doc stamps ect. Just smells fishy mark, not from a School Board standpoint, but the whole sale is suspect IMO. Thanks for stepping forward.
Alan

Creeklover

There is proble no recored avaliable on the WCPA web site because the property was pulled from one development and then replated into it's own. I have seen this ALOT in areas where property was sold in a unrecorded S/D and then replated into a new S/D.

I think you are looking for something here and there is nothing to find.

The land is also not High and Dry by any standards. Every thing in that area by my account is/was swamp land till fill dirt was brought in.....

Alan Osborne

We'll I asked the question and everybody at the county gave me blank looks.
I hope it was all done the right way. I can cross that off the list, I'm down to 36 things that walton County owes me answers to on how my development order is in compliance.
It occasionally makes me smile when I get real answers about if a NOPC matches the paperwork.

Creeklover, I ask these questions simply because I go to a lot of meetings and I know how critical public land is in SOWAL country is. It should be of the highest accountabiity and transpaerency when public sites are sold off. I hope you don't mind if I continue to ask tough questions. We need more public venue areas.

mdd88jd

Thanks Alan: I will try to find answers to those questions. For some reason. I don't remember if we received an appraisal or not. We didn't actually own the property, it was, as memory serves, set aside for a school site in the original DRI. I do remember we found it could not be used as whole (non-academy type deal) school site because of its size and location. I will dig around and try, though I can't promise I will find, answers to your other questions.

Snerd

wrong thread, moved to other. sorry!