Thanks to the TDC for hearing us loud and clear. Thank you for your decision to take down the signs on Scenic 30-A and feeder roads. The community designation signs are to be removed right away. The directional (wayfinding) signs that are the tall thin ones will be removed at the end of the season.
The bottom line is we achieved our goal total removal of all the signs. Thank you all at Sowal and thank everyone who put their time, energy and scenic spirit into this effort. This truly shows what is possible when everyone works together.
The TDC board should be held in high regard for their actions today and their willingness to work with all groups to create a coordinated sign plan for our scenic corridor.
Dave Rauschkolb
Congratulations! I thank all of you for your dedication and hard work! I was cheering you on from afar!
Last edited by Miss Kitty; 04-09-2008 at 01:02 PM.
What a large turn out. I was a little shocked at Mary Brown's complaint that prior to the signs it drove people into her business.
Excellent observation.
Guys, I want to caution we only need to be celebrating at about 70%. Because it was Mary Brown of Beach Rentals of South Walton's resolution that passed, and only calls for taking down the 8 or 9 "Welcome to" community signs, not the other 30 or so wayfinding signs that were included in the motion Ken Gifford ( Great Public Servant) made to take down all the signs on 30-A, our work is far from over. We have to maintain our current level of interest. I want to caution people to remember that she also asked that the signs be lowered and "improved" in the meantime. Why spend the money on that if we do indeed intend for this to be a temporary measure? Leaving them up for the season turned into leaving them up until new signs were placed. After the crowd dispersed, Mary Brown had a pointed exchange with Dave Rauschkolb trying to put him on the spot to speak for the community about paying for the signs. There is no money budgeted for the signs, though Ken Gifford did attempt to address that later in the meeting. My point is, folks, that the first batch of signs took seven years. I will write a longer meeting report later this evening and include the things that happened after the crowd left.
I'm not trying to rain on the parade, but we do need to be cautiously optimistic, celebrate, and get right back to work tomorrow. If public interest wanes, the signs will be with us for a long time to come. It's not over -- but we did win an important victory today!
Guys, I want to caution we only need to be celebrating at about 70%. Because it was Mary Brown of Beach Rentals of South Walton's resolution that passed, and only calls for taking down the 8 or 9 "Welcome to" community signs, not the other 30 or so wayfinding signs that were included in the motion Ken Gifford ( Great Public Servant) made to take down all the signs on 30-A, our work is far from over. We have to maintain our current level of interest. I want to caution people to remember that she also asked that the signs be lowered and "improved" in the meantime. Why spend the money on that if we do indeed intend for this to be a temporary measure? Leaving them up for the season turned into leaving them up until new signs were placed. After the crowd dispersed, Mary Brown had a pointed exchange with Dave Rauschkolb trying to put him on the spot to speak for the community about paying for the signs. There is no money budgeted for the signs, though Ken Gifford did attempt to address that later in the meeting. My point is, folks, that the first batch of signs took seven years. I will write a longer meeting report later this evening and include the things that happened after the crowd left.
I'm not trying to rain on the parade, but we do need to be cautiously optimistic, celebrate, and get right back to work tomorrow. If public interest wanes, the signs will be with us for a long time to come. It's not over -- but we did win an important victory today!
You answered my questions! Thanks, Punzy, so much for everything!
Just know that there are those of us that can't make physically to meetings, but are willing to write letters, make phone calls & volunteer in a zillion other ways.
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I'd be remiss if I didn't give a breakdown of the votes.
The first resolution to take down all the signs on 30-A, put forward by Ken Gifford and seconded by Maurice Gilbert, was defeated 4-3.
Ken Gifford, Maurice Gilbert, and Mike Stange voted yea.
Mary Brown, Mary Jo Tommas, Tim Norris, and John Gillis all opposed.
Scott Brannon (yet again) and Don McQuade did not show up for the meeting.
Mary Brown's resolution to take down the community signs, but leave up the wayfinding signs and spend more money and resources to lower them until new signage was in place passed 4-3.
Mary Brown, Mary Jo Tommas, Tim Norris, and John Gillis voted yea.
Ken Gifford, Maurice Gilbert, and Mike Stange voted nea.
The difference was one vote. TDC boards, by Florida law, only have one seat alloted to represent the community -- the one seat designated for a BCC member. Our community representative, Commissioner Scott Brannon, has missed both TDC meetings and the workshop. He represents the east end of 30A, and his vote could have made all the difference.
.......................... My point is, folks, that the first batch of signs took seven years. I will write a longer meeting report later this evening and include the things that happened after the crowd left.
I'm not trying to rain on the parade, but we do need to be cautiously optimistic, celebrate, and get right back to work tomorrow. If public interest wanes, the signs will be with us for a long time to come. It's not over -- but we did win an important victory today!
Thanks for the "heads up"!
.
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"Peace .... starts with the person who attempts to diffuse the tension and backs away from the inflammatory rhetoric."
I'd be remiss if I didn't give a breakdown of the votes.
The first resolution to take down all the signs on 30-A, put forward by Ken Gifford and seconded by Maurice Gilbert, was defeated 4-3.
Ken Gifford, Maurice Gilbert, and Mike Stange voted yea.
Mary Brown, Mary Jo Tommas, Tim Norris, and John Gillis all opposed.
Scott Brannon (yet again) and Don McQuade did not show up for the meeting.
Mary Brown's resolution to take down the community signs, but leave up the wayfinding signs and spend more money and resources to lower them until new signage was in place passed 4-3.
Mary Brown, Mary Jo Tommas, Tim Norris, and John Gillis voted yea.
Ken Gifford, Maurice Gilbert, and Mike Stange voted nea.
The difference was one vote. TDC boards, by Florida law, only have one seat alloted to represent the community -- the one seat designated for a BCC member. Our community representative, Commissioner Scott Brannon, has missed both TDC meetings and the workshop. He represents the east end of 30A, and his vote could have made all the difference.
Let's do as Punzy says & keep the initiative going. Rita, you are right, because spending that money to prolong the blue signs' lives shows that they might be trying to get us to get lazy & let the issue go.
The key right now seems to be getting Mr. Brannon involved also. Already popped off my email to him, expressing my thoughts.
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Even if Mr. Brannon had attended and voted yea or nay resulting a tie, what is the tie breaker?
His job is to represent his constituents; their rights and interest. He could have done his job and argued for the desire of the voters who put him there to be rid of the signs. Then maybe, just maybe, he could have swayed one of the four negative votes over from the dark side to make a majority in favor of taking the signs down.
He cannot do any of that when he is not there.
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There is a difference between PUBLIC property and PRIVATE property, my friend. Stop trolling for a fight. Or start you're own thread. This one is celebration mode!!
you made my point...I have always believed the beach and beach front to be public...Thanks my friend.
In many cases, yes they are IMO. Get off the beach property owner's case. They have enough to worry with answering th FDEP, the Fish and Wildlife Commission, the US Dept. of Civil Engineers and a myriad of other "concerned" citizens and agencies. A lot of the beach front owners were here long before you were and have done nothing but contribute to the esthetics value and useablity of the beach.
and the Gulf was here before any of us my friend.. We should all do a better job taking care of it... that is all I am saying.
The Walton County Tourist Development Council voted 5 – 2 Wednesday morning to remove the community and wayfinding signs along County Road 30A that have caused such an outcry form locals.
The recommendation will have to be approved by the Walton County Commission at its next meeting on April 22.
If the commissioners approve the measure then the community signs that welcome drivers to the various neighborhoods along CR 30A will be pulled out, said TDC Interim Executive Director Sonny Mares. Many of the directional signs that show motorists where to go will be left up until the community and the TDC can agree on replacements.
The TDC’s regular meeting was packed with more than 50 people. Attendees applauded loudly when the TDC voted to remove the signs.
Claire Bannerman, who worked with the Scenic Pride Initiative to get the signs removed, said she’s happy with the meeting's outcome. She, along with other community members, will now work with the TDC to find new signage that will fit with the “natural look” of the road and that will “build community pride.”
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So glad you all got your way. As always the cry babies get their way regardless of the cost to the community. Personally I hope that every tourist who visits this summer stops at your home or business and ask directions and which community they are in, just need directions they don't want to buy anything or eat in your restaurants. I really hate that I have a job and have to work during these meetings, but I'm sure I would have been tarred and feathered if I had voiced my opinion. I will make it a point to be at the next meeting just to see the sad collection of people who live in this beautiful area that have no life.
The Walton County Tourist Development Council voted 5 – 2 Wednesday morning to remove the community and wayfinding signs along County Road 30A that have caused such an outcry form locals.
The recommendation will have to be approved by the Walton County Commission at its next meeting on April 22.
If the commissioners approve the measure then the community signs that welcome drivers to the various neighborhoods along CR 30A will be pulled out, said TDC Interim Executive Director Sonny Mares. Many of the directional signs that show motorists where to go will be left up until the community and the TDC can agree on replacements.
The TDC’s regular meeting was packed with more than 50 people. Attendees applauded loudly when the TDC voted to remove the signs.
Claire Bannerman, who worked with the Scenic Pride Initiative to get the signs removed, said she’s happy with the meeting's outcome. She, along with other community members, will now work with the TDC to find new signage that will fit with the “natural look” of the road and that will “build community pride.”
You know they could have saved themselves a whole lot of trouble and allowed me and my merry band of thieves dressed as Georgia Beach Tourists, tear them down.... you try to do some folks a favor !
Dave: Many thanks for your hard work. Personally I was hoping for you top represent all of us in your "Borat" persona. But... you did fine nonetheless.
You know they could have saved themselves a whole lot of trouble and allowed me and my merry band of thieves dressed as Georgia Beach Tourists, tear them down.... you try to do some folks a favor !
Dave: Many thanks for your hard work. Personally I was hoping for you top represent all of us in your "Borat" persona. But... you did fine nonetheless.
So glad you all got your way. As always the cry babies get their way regardless of the cost to the community. Personally I hope that every tourist who visits this summer stops at your home or business and ask directions and which community they are in, just need directions they don't want to buy anything or eat in your restaurants. I really hate that I have a job and have to work during these meetings, but I'm sure I would have been tarred and feathered if I had voiced my opinion. I will make it a point to be at the next meeting just to see the sad collection of people who live in this beautiful area that have no life.
I don't know how in the world the tourists are supposed to find their way through the labyrinth that is 30A. South: Gulf of Mexico. North: Not the beach. East: Panama City. West: Sandestin. Everything else is within sight of 30A, or it's a residential area. It's not like those are big blue Hospital signs.
(Those look like this, by the way:)
Even in my early days as a tourist there, I was able to find what I needed without any giant theme-park looking signs.
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So glad you all got your way. As always the cry babies get their way regardless of the cost to the community. Personally I hope that every tourist who visits this summer stops at your home or business and ask directions and which community they are in, just need directions they don't want to buy anything or eat in your restaurants. I really hate that I have a job and have to work during these meetings, but I'm sure I would have been tarred and feathered if I had voiced my opinion. I will make it a point to be at the next meeting just to see the sad collection of people who live in this beautiful area that have no life.
Your board name is very apropo.
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Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem. Ronald Reagan
Rapunzel is absolutely right. Personally, I sense a smoke screen here. I firmly believe the part of the TDC board wanting to remove only the community signs hopes this will all be figured to be settled by the community and no one will make any further protest. Be aware!
__________________
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem. Ronald Reagan
So glad you all got your way. As always the cry babies get their way regardless of the cost to the community. Personally I hope that every tourist who visits this summer stops at your home or business and ask directions and which community they are in, just need directions they don't want to buy anything or eat in your restaurants. I really hate that I have a job and have to work during these meetings, but I'm sure I would have been tarred and feathered if I had voiced my opinion. I will make it a point to be at the next meeting just to see the sad collection of people who live in this beautiful area that have no life.
Funny- I thought you WERE there! After reading your post, I assumed that you were the plant that stood up and talked passionately about our new international airport and the throngs of foreign visitors that are going to flood our area when they get a closer airport- and how they need signs to follow when they get here.
Oh yeah- for those of you that couldn't be here- when he mentioned the huge number of European vacationers that will be flocking here, the whole room was belly laughing and snickering, including all but 2 of the TDC board members.
Also, it sounds like you don't need to live in a tourist town. We are all more than happy to give directions to visitors, and if a business owner has a problem with that, then they should open up shop somewhere off 30-A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy A.
Rapunzel is absolutely right. Personally, I sense a smoke screen here. I firmly believe the part of the TDC board wanting to remove only the community signs hopes this will all be figured to be settled by the community and no one will make any further protest. Be aware!
Fear not. We won't rest until the last of the wayfinding(directional) signs are down later in the season. This issue will not go away until they are replaced with with more suitable designs that are in harmony with the Scenic route and feeder roads.
There is a need for directional signs and it won't hurt to endure them for a handful of months longer. We will be working right away (next week) with the TDC on creating a joint task force to reach consensus on signage for the bike path, town designation and wayfinding signs. The important thing right now is the TDC agreed to take all of them down within the year and believe me, we won't let this issue die; how could we? We have to look at the damn things every day we ride down the road.
Dave Rauschkolb
Last edited by Dave Rauschkolb; 04-09-2008 at 06:28 PM.
How in the hail we ever found our way around 30A without signs, I'll never know.
To the dawgs... I don't believe most people are against a modicum of signs, it was the unfortunate design and color that was disturbing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Rauschkolb
Fear not. We won't rest until the last of the wayfinding(directional) signs are down later in the season. This issue will not go away until they are replaced with with more suitable designs that are in harmony with the Scenic route and feeder roads.
There is a need for directional signs and it won't hurt to endure them for a handful of months longer. We will be working right away (next week) with the TDC on creating a joint task force to reach consensus on signage for the bike path, town designation and wayfinding signs. The important thing right now is the TDC agreed to take all of them down within the year and believe me, we won't let this issue die; how could we? We have to look at the damn things every day we ride down the road.
Dave Rauschkolb
Really? For once, I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck (so enjoy it while you can.) I always thought the signs that said "Welcome to Blue Mountain...Santa Rosa...etc." were interesting, but I can't say that they were crucial to tourist survival. My beginnings in SoWal were at Gulf Trace. If I needed to go to Goatfeathers, the name "Dune Allen" never came up. It was "Go west on 30A, and it's on the right, down a ways." Stinky's is further west on 30A. Flip Flops is past Seaside on the left, going east. The only time tourists I know give a cat butt about where they are is when they tell their friends back home, "Oh...I stayed in Blue Mountain/Seacrest/Rosemary Beach/Whatever." (It was only in the last few years we didn't call all of SoWal "Destin." Seriously.)
To me, a dumb tourist, those signs are pure fluff. In the case of the Big Blues, they're ugly fluff. At least the old ones were quaint.
But this is just my humble, dogmatic opinion. I'm open to other opinions on the matter.
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Life doesn't get any better than this.
(Jayne N. Burns)
Fear not. We won't rest until the last of the wayfinding(directional) signs are down later in the season. This issue will not go away until they are replaced with with more suitable designs that are in harmony with the Scenic route and feeder roads.
There is a need for directional signs and it won't hurt to endure them for a handful of months longer. We will be working right away (next week) with the TDC on creating a joint task force to reach consensus on signage for the bike path, town designation and wayfinding signs. The important thing right now is the TDC agreed to take all of them down within the year and believe me, we won't let this issue die; how could we? We have to look at the damn things every day we ride down the road.
Dave Rauschkolb
Dave: I for one believe you wholeheartedly. the signs will be removed and replaced with new ones. I agree - the directional signs are a good idea.
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What a large turn out. I was a little shocked at Mary Brown's complaint that prior to the signs it drove people into her business.
Isn't Mary Brown in the real estate/rental business? That just sounds so wrong, but hey, I guess that mentality can help our her competition. I would love for tourists to walk into my business all day, asking about directions, maps, rentals, restaurant recommendations, etc. One day, they might want to actually buy from me. Wow! imagine building your business and helping people at the same time. As the How to be a Redneck guy says, "Bless her heart."
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I am reading that Mary Brown wants to lower the signs to the "correct" height. Is that correct? We were told at the other workshop meeting that the tall signs were built to the MUTCD code heights which require the lowest portion of the legend of the sign to be at 7ft in height. So, I ask Mary Brown, what is the correct height, if the signs are not already at the correct height?
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I don't know how in the world the tourists are supposed to find their way through the labyrinth that is 30A. South: Gulf of Mexico. North: Not the beach. East: Panama City. West: Sandestin. Everything else is within sight of 30A, or it's a residential area. It's not like those are big blue Hospital signs.
(Those look like this, by the way:)
Even in my early days as a tourist there, I was able to find what I needed without any giant theme-park looking signs.
Good point, NoHall. Mary Brown and Red Dawg seem concerned with the foot-traffic entering their business but not buying anything, and not looking for their rental home. Mary says that these people are coming from other areas like Panama City, so they need signs to direct them to ..... ??? I don't get it. If they are not staying here, why do they need to know where Seacrest "Beach" is located? Also, when they stop in for directions, where are they looking to go? The Beaches of South Walton?
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"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
For anyone who may be mislead by Mary Brown, who says that the tourists need the signs, I will remind you of the TDC's Mission Statement. Take note of the bold text, and notice it is the first listed.
Mission Statement The mission of the Walton County TDC is to direct and manage activities that will strengthen the position of the Beaches of South Walton County brand in the tourism marketplace, to manage and maintain our beaches as a primary attraction and as a responsible industry organization to take a leadership role in addressing issues that affect tourism and the quality of life in Walton County.
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"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
Thanks to all involved in this issue for their hard work and dedication.
The surprising vote for me was the Tim Norris vote. New on the Board - had no prior vote to protect and lives on 30-A.
Maurice and Mike's votes I understand - they are both up for reelection on the fire board. They both fill positions by virtue of their serving on that Board. If they were to be defeated in the upcoming election then they would be off the TDC board. But, I'm sure everyone else thought of that. (They are the required taxing authority representatives).
Keep up the hard work - you have them on the run !
Last edited by Puppetmaster; 04-09-2008 at 08:58 PM.
Good work, Dave, Claire, Punzy, et al. I would like to personally thank you all, and to the three TDC Council Members -- Mr. Gifford, Mr. Gilbert, and Mr. Strange, your efforts are much appreciated by many people. I applaud your courage to do the right thing.
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"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
Hey Dave....I just got into this as I have been in and out of town and have not read all 42 pages of this thread so I don't know if anyone has brought up the fact that these "Industrial" style signs are the exact same ones that are on the South Walton High School and Government Offices, Library Etc. Except they are a emerald or teal green. Just one look at them now with all that rust running down them should give people an idea of how terrible they really are and would be. I feel like the whole county will end up with Green roofs and the same colored walls as all the schools do. Don't get me wrong Butler, Emerald coast Middle School and South Walton High are clean and well maintained. I just would have loved to see that old Florida look like Bay Elementary. Geez....how did I get off one thing and onto something totally different....sorry!
Thank you all for getting so involved in this.....I miss those Small Beachy Wooden Sandblasted ones as so many othes do. As I said, this is my first time on this thread so if I've said something out of line, or rediculously stupid please forgive me!
Hey Dave....I just got into this as I have been in and out of town and have not read all 42 pages of this thread so I don't know if anyone has brought up the fact that these "Industrial" style signs are the exact same ones that are on the South Walton High School and Government Offices, Library Etc. Except they are a emerald or teal green. Just one look at them now with all that rust running down them should give people an idea of how terrible they really are and would be. I feel like the whole county will end up with Green roofs and the same colored walls as all the schools do. Don't get me wrong Butler, Emerald coast Middle School and South Walton High are clean and well maintained. I just would have loved to see that old Florida look like Bay Elementary. Geez....how did I get off one thing and onto something totally different....sorry!
Thank you all for getting so involved in this.....I miss those Small Beachy Wooden Sandblasted ones as so many othes do. As I said, this is my first time on this thread so if I've said something out of line, or rediculously stupid please forgive me!
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Re: New big blue signs in SoWal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiling JOe
For anyone who may be mislead by Mary Brown, who says that the tourists need the signs, I will remind you of the TDC's Mission Statement. Take note of the bold text, and notice it is the first listed.
Mission Statement The mission of the Walton County TDC is to direct and manage activities that will strengthen the position of the Beaches of South Walton County brand in the tourism marketplace, to manage and maintain our beaches as a primary attraction and as a responsible industry organization to take a leadership role in addressing issues that affect tourism and the quality of life in Walton County.
Perhaps the Mission statement of the TDC needs a little tweaking. I Think so. It is clear there are far more primary attractions than just the beaches along the Scenic Corridor. The bike path, the multitude of state parks, the coastal lakes, the beautiful pedestrian communities etc...Clearly the South Walton experience has much more depth than just the beaches.
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Re: New big blue signs in SoWal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiling JOe
I am reading that Mary Brown wants to lower the signs to the "correct" height. Is that correct? We were told at the other workshop meeting that the tall signs were built to the MUTCD code heights which require the lowest portion of the legend of the sign to be at 7ft in height. So, I ask Mary Brown, what is the correct height, if the signs are not already at the correct height?
Those signs have no correct height along our scenic roads in any form. Lowering them is more wasted money because they will come down anyway. Mary Brown is sadly mistaken if she thinks lowering them will make them more palatable. We will not rest until they are all gone and we have new directional signs. We must be sure to be at the BCC meeting when they give the TDC recommendation a nod or no nod. We must hold the BCC accountable to be sure all the signs come down by the end of the season as promised by the TDC Board. We must stay on point and work to design appropriate new signs as soon as possible.
In my notes, I have that Mary Brown originally worded her resolution to leave the wayfinding signs up through the season, but when Ken Gifford and John Gilbert pressed her to define "the season" she reworded her motion to "until new signs are placed." I'm wondering if I missed part of the discussion? If they went back to the season wording, did they specify what the season meant?
I guess maybe I'm analyzing every word like a lawyer, and I should follow Dave's lead and be a little more zen about the whole thing. The signs are coming down. Hopefully the sea oats signs will be a quick thing, and the days of the blue signs will soon end.
On the bright side, driving 30A tonight, I noticed that each community sign has one for the eastbound lane, one for the west, so there are 18 community signs, and that means at least half of the monsters will be vanquished!
[quote=Booger;391820]You know they could have saved themselves a whole lot of trouble and allowed me and my merry band of thieves dressed as Georgia Beach Tourists, tear them down.... you try to do some folks a favor !
Guess we know now who's responsible for the missing sign at the 331 bridge.
I think it is a waste of tax payers money to take them down now. Bed tax or what ever tax it's still tax money we are wasting, where is the taxpayers association when we need them. one day we will wake up and regret it.
You loose because you do not realize you are in a war and are trying to mediate your way out of the fight.
I predict less than 50 people will show - alot of hollering, screeming and no real plan of action from the group
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
Thanks to all involved in this issue for their hard work and dedication.
The surprising vote for me was the Tim Norris vote. New on the Board - had no prior vote to protect and lives on 30-A.
Maurice and Mike's votes I understand - they are both up for reelection on the fire board. They both fill positions by virtue of their serving on that Board. If they were to be defeated in the upcoming election then they would be off the TDC board. But, I'm sure everyone else thought of that. (They are the required taxing authority representatives).
Keep up the hard work - you have them on the run !
apparently your prognostications were incorrect. you seem to have a different view now. can we look forward to another change if the wind blows in a different direction? what office do you hold?
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Great Public Servant) made to take down all the signs on 30-A, our work is far from over. We have to maintain our current level of interest. I want to caution people to remember that she also asked that the signs be lowered and "improved" in the meantime. Why spend the money on that if we do indeed intend for this to be a temporary measure? Leaving them up for the season turned into leaving them up until new signs were placed. After the crowd dispersed, Mary Brown had a pointed exchange with Dave Rauschkolb trying to put him on the spot to speak for the community about paying for the signs. There is no money budgeted for the signs, though Ken Gifford did attempt to address that later in the meeting. My point is, folks, that the first batch of signs took seven years. I will write a longer meeting report later this evening and include the things that happened after the crowd left. 
I have a feeling that your post just gave away your identity.
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