Anyone else find Susan Vallee's editorial in the Seaside Times, about the unfriendliness by owners there, including the sign wars in that bucolic setting, of merit? Seems Walton Sun and NW Fla Daily News are writing about some of it...but Susan really "told it like it is". Apparently there are a few Seagrove emails circulating telling recent "war stories" about verbal attacks by Seaside owners, including threats to call "security" if they didn't leave the "private" pavilions and streets immediately!

It doesnt surprise me at all. And I think she is telling it like it is. There will be no more of the bus tours of people to admire the architecture, shop, dine etc. There will be no more people driving out from PC or Destin to shop and dine there and before you know it there will be houses where Perspicasity, Bud and Alleys and all the other beach side businesses are. And you only have the narcissistic new home owners in the area to blame. They paid good money and will defend this little piece of paradises privacy until they (or it) are dead.

__________________
WARNING: Things posted by this user may offend some people. All things posted above are the opinions of poster and not necessarily the opinions of this site..or anyone else for that matter. They might not even make sense or be suitable for children. Come to think of it, they might be unsuitable for adults or human consumption. Have a nice day.

Wow. I had heard that high-rise commercial buildings were going to replace Bud & Alley's, Perspicasity, and the entire beachside commercial area where B&A et. al. now exist. It would take some deep pockets to replace all of that with private residences. However, from what I've seen, the deep pockets get deeper, and everyone else is struggling.

__________________

Shazam!

Recently I did a search on "downtown Seaside" and googled terms like that...what the search produced was eye-opening: Not high rises...but high quality architecture. Actually that rumor is really off the mark...the downtown is planned and was announced here in detail...http://www.newurbannews.com/SeasideMar05.html



That tower part is all that'll be high...and it will be a breathtakingly beautiful work of art set in scale, as these pictures show, to very low profile structures keeping the view to the Gulf open.



(see http://www.opticosdesign.com/project...etower_fd.html)



After reading these details, I think it clearly will beautify and enhance our 30 A corridor..



if in the meantime the very small cadre of xenophobic vigilantes policing Seaside's homeowner streets don't drive everyone away...



But...even if the few homeowner bullies behind the sign wars continue their "exclusive for me" biz, the downtown will remain and be public place...Seaside's founder owns the downtown and has publically dedicated himself to make it become consistent with the vision he had/has of community and connection he started nearly 30 years ago when some of us in Seagrove first met him....

Thank you for that insightful post Waiting.. I am glad to see that they will be featuring L.Krier works there.

__________________
WARNING: Things posted by this user may offend some people. All things posted above are the opinions of poster and not necessarily the opinions of this site..or anyone else for that matter. They might not even make sense or be suitable for children. Come to think of it, they might be unsuitable for adults or human consumption. Have a nice day.

They can say that the "downtown" Seaside will remain public, but as parking gets even tighter, and beach accesses are cut off, the public will quickly stop shopping in the public stores, and stop dining in the restaurants.

I didn't read the article about the sign wars, but know that Seaside had a run in with the SWFD over the posts in the middle of the roads off of 30A, and the SWFD won that battle. It seems that Seaside didn't want the firetrucks to be able to access the private streets in order for them to put out a fire. They also made Seaside remove the temporary marquees at each of those roads, which stated, "Private, residents only."

Oh, Snap!

__________________

Seaside has alway's felt like a Disney set to me...kind of forced and unnatural...now I know it is...those people are GOOFY....not letting firetrucks in....what will happen when the public servants decide to take their time...to get to where they are not well received.

I read Susan's article about the signs and glad she addressed this because, to me, Seaside has always been very open to the public and I hope it stays this way. We have enjoyed visiting the town of Seaside for many years and have never felt excluded in any way. Its kind of a mini vacation for us to drive 4 minutes from Pt Washington/bay area to the town and just stroll, shop, eat ice cream, walk on the beach, enjoy the concerts, etc.

I think what Susan is mainly referring to are signs along the back part of seaside where locals cut through from seagrove - we aren't suppose to be driving through the residence area, but always do.

I haven't heard about anyone being told to leave the pavillion or beach areas - I hope this isn't a problem.

Thank you Susan for bringing this up before it does become a problem for Seaside. We love Seaside - it's the only resort town on 30A that really opens up for the entire community.

Going one way...

Going the other way...

Sadly, the "it's mine and I won't share" attitude isn't confined to Seaside. But we're all more than a little disappointed to find it cropping up there. It makes a mockery of New Urbanism.

And just in case anyone thinks I am down on Seaside, wrong. I too am really thankful for all they offer residents and guests on 30A. Our cultural and community life would be much poorer without all the things that are made openly available to all of us.

I try to avoid that tourist trap all together. They can have it. Even their ice cream is hollow. What a rip!

Same here- we are over there doing something at least 2 or 3 days a week. It is truly the town center of 30A.

I love walking in Seaside and doing my end of vacation shopping there. Our trip always ends with a trip to Sundog books, and I love Modica's. Of course B&A's....love it.

__________________
I know I don't get there often enough, but God knows I surely try, It's a magic kind of medicine that no doctor could prescribe!

What is clear to me is that Seaside does not speak with one voice. I, like many other Seagrove residents, have friendly neighbors who actually live full-time in Seaside.

What these recent developments reflect, I am told, are the actions of a very few individuals who have taken over the politics of some of the homeowner street associations and exercised their personal agenda: "Mine Mine Mine". It is they who were responsible for the signs and confrontations with non-Seaside owners.

I have heard from more than one Seaside homeowner how embarassed they are by these actions of a few that reflect exclusiveness rather than the inclusive spirit on which Seaside was founded.

Below is a letter circulated by a resident of both Seagrove AND Seaside (who is, I am told, among those responsible for the signs) in which she defends the actions of this small minority to make Seaside more "exclusive":

"Dear Seagrove Folks,
Since we live in Seagrove and own property in Seaside, we get input from both communities. It is clear that we who live in Seagrove feel that Seaside has become unfriendly and restrictive. Those who own in Seaside feel that we are unfriendly and thoughtless for a number of reasons. We walk our dogs through Seaside and many don't pick up poop left all over their properties. We use their streets and pavilions
like they are ours and we pay nothing for the maintenance and repair. They have to pay for water and utility bills for the pavilions while we and our renters use their facilities and streets and pay nothing. We use Seaside as a lure to rent our Seagrove properties but pay nothing for all our renters to use the Seaside streets and pavilions, all of which they have to pay to maintain. We who live in Seagrove think that the home-
owners in Seaside gain financially from the commercial area. Not true. Only business owners and the developer benefit from those businesses financially. We all benefit from the convenience and fun of having them there. The Seaside homeowners must pay to maintain all the residential streets and pavilions, not the developer. The homeowners are liable for the golf cart damage and injury on the private streets in Seaside. There is so much damage that we in Seagrove are unaware of. They can't discriminate as to which golf carts from outside Seaside can be allowed
in and which can't. As we all know, it isn't even legal to have golf carts on the County roads in Seagrove.

I'm sure if all us Seagrove residents were willing to pay the $3600/year each property owner in Seaside must pay to maintain the streets and pavilions, the Seaside owners would not be so restrictive and unfriendly.
If we think about the situation like the Seaside owners do, we would realize that they are paying for our County roads AND their private streets. They are paying for our County walkovers AND their private walkovers. And, we are trying to take rentals from them by using what they are paying for as a lure to rent our Seagrove houses. Some of us pay to use the Seaside pools, tennis and fitness center and think that money goes to the owners in Seaside. Not true. That money goes to the developer and his agent. I don't think we in Seagrove will ever be happy with the restrictions. But maybe we could try to understand the whole situation a little better.
Sissie Canale"

I worked for SCDC for three years, and later for one of the merchants for three years. Both situations involved homeowner accounting. Grrrr. I still thank the good Lord that I got out.

However, I will say that when Fuzz was un-fuzzed and took a job in their security office, they were very, very good to him. TJ is great.

__________________

"They (Seaside owners) are paying for our County walkovers" -- That is not true. The tourists pay for the County beach walkovers via bed taxes.

Here's my thoughts on it. Seaside was once the only development on 30A which had a warm and friendly feel to it, welcoming the public to park, shop, and access the beautiful beaches. They even had restrooms available. In the last two years, the public parking has been reduced to almost nothing, "private, owners and guests only" signs were posted at each beach access which had been used by the public since Seaside began, without parking readily available, shopping has been cut back and I rarely eat in Seaside anymore. I still shop at Sundog's Books and Central Sq Records when I need to buy a book or CD, because of the friendly and knowledgeable staff, and I frequent Eileen West's art gallery, as well as the REP Theatre, which currently calls Seaside home. I also frequent the Post Office in Seaside, because of the two kindest faces working behind the counter. I enjoy the occasional stroll down the deserted streets for a moment of solitude, and on occasion, I will snap some photos of the area. I have never had anyone tell me to get off their pavilion or to get off their beach at Seaside. I know Seaside owners and they certainly don't mind me being their everyday guest.

The warm, welcoming feel which Seaside once radiated, is quickly disappearing. It is like they turned a cold shoulder to the very people whom they used to throw out the red carpet for. Every store in Seaside taxes the buyers to pay for the Seaside entertainment ( I notice that Sissie Canale conveniently forgot about that in her email). It is difficult to want to pay that tax or frequent any businesses there, when the people running the show make the entire development so cold and jagged (in contrast to warm and fuzzy).
Next thing you know, they will not have a public restroom.

I don't shower in seaside, and walking up the steps at a pavilion doesn't add to wear and tear on it. I pick up trash I see while I'm there, and I share photos of Seaside, giving them promotion in the process. If they don't want me there, it is their loss, not mine. I'll go where I'm wanted, and tell others to avoid Seaside like the plague. Want some bad press, piss people off. Bad press is free and easy.

__________________

Like a number of you, our family loves Seaside and we also always finish our vacation there, and while we are at 30A, we are there almost every day. We bought our house in Memphis in a New Urbanism neighborhood much like Seaside. We happen to like being on the beach, so we stay in Seagrove, but the friendliness we have seen for more than 10 years at Seaside is an important aspect of why we spend (lots!) of money for a vacation at SOWAL. Now that the kids are at college, husband and I even spent my college's fall ba reak at Seaside (we rented a tiny place), and this time, we did have access to the community pools and exercise room.

I say all this to echo the opinions of many of you--there is a special karma about Seaside, even with its Disney-like qualities. Indeed, I would argue, a vacation place needs a bit of a sense of unreality to be a real escape. I sincerely hope that the powers that be understand that becoming a gated community will destroy the special qualities that bring tourist money. Even the value of their real estate is predicated on this special quality.

Happy Holidays everyone!

What I see here is a failure to communicate!
I do not like to coin old sayings, but honest Joe here.... Seems like from the outside looking in its a basic communication gap. As I have posted before in other threads, I believe that a person has a right to what they purchased and they have the legal rights provided to them as such provided by the law makers. Now unlike some that advocate blocking paths and tossing tea... I feel communication is the best method to resolve these types of matters.

Let me cut through the chase and shorten this could be long post.

Why not create an association (If there is not one) that represents the entire Sowal group and area. We elect these folks into office to represent just us. They are required to attend all city and county as well as state functions concerning our area. They go to county meetings with "OUR" agenda and present it and we count at the polls when its time. I am open on this just flashed through my head as I drove through Seaside this morning. What say you?

Perfect! You are elected. Is there a second?

__________________

Sorry SJ, I was kinda looking at you, Your very informed on this area, unlike me, I am a new comer hence the "Outsider" looking in comment. But people that have a genuine concern for our multi community should be considered and hopefully have a background of our wonderful community.

Thanks again SJ but I vote for you to be on this community.!

lol. Like I need another job which doesn't pay. I have plenty of those. Plus, I don't think that I accurately represent the majority of people on SoWal.com/bb. I accurately represent myself, but I tend to think a bit too simplistically, and sometimes that equates to being outside the box.

__________________

Boy the SWCC must be sleeping in today. BH25 that is the South Walton Community Council, they have been around for a while and although they occasionally get bashed, they are the closest thing currently in existence that you are referencing.

__________________

SJ thats what I think we all need.. someone who thinks "Outside" the box.. YES!

Let me clear this up a bit, I see it having one person from each division, Like the folks in Seagrove elect their rep and Seaside, Watercolor,Blue Mt.,so on and so on, Freeport, you see the idea here? And they meet once a month to bring all of their thoughts to the table, yeah I know thats why we elect our county rep's hummm seems to me some need some direction and planning help.. But this group is for all the little quagmires (Sp) we seem to have overlooked ... just an idea...

Thank You SWGB ! Ok well I never said it had not been done yet LOL.. But hey it never hurts to put things out there, never know when one might be an Emmy! Thanks again SWGB! Hope you have a wonderful day today!

The SWCC is the closest thing, but I'm not sure that it operates on the same lines of pulling a rep from each community. Two of there representatives typically attend each Board of County Commissioners meeting in SoWal, so they fit the bill in that manner. I am somewhat laughing at the idea that the community reps being required to attend all the meetings, because other than the two SWCC people noted above, the only other regulars are the reporter from the radio station, something like 1640am, and the gentleman from the Walton County Tax Payer's Association. We have a total lack of interest in local gov't by the majority of the people. Some may say they are interested, but they have placed other things on a higher priority of their things to do. I grew up going to County Commissioner Meetings and Court cases, because my parents didn't have baby sitters, so attending the meetings is right up my alley. Attending the meetings provides much insight to local gov't and projects.

I do like your idea of bringing the communities together, but think that most people won't contribute the time and effort, based on what I've seen in the past.

__________________

SJ, I wonder if we could get like a local eatery to help sponsor this once a month for the meeting.. I know a FREE meal always gets me to sit at the table! Just an idea..

Meeting once a month is one thing, but attending the two BCC meetings and the Planning Commission meetings each month, in addition to the SoWal meeting, would begin to take up mucho time and energy, and that is in addition to writing emails, summary of meetings, sitting down with your own community, doing research on current topics, etc. It could easily take up 40 hours a month if it was done right.

__________________

I don't know how many reps we would need but say 5-6 and have one go to each separate meeting and rotate the meetings they attend and report back monthly to the board? I am just thinking out load here so don't hold my toes to the fire LOL!

Tootsie wrote: "I read Susan's article about the signs and glad she addressed this because, to me, Seaside has always been very open to the public and I hope it stays this way.
...I haven't heard about anyone being told to leave the pavillion or beach areas - I hope this isn't a problem"

Tootsie and all, maybe the below will fill in a few pieces of how dramatic the actions of just one or two people can be:

"I live in Seagrove Beach with my wife. We built our house over a year ago and we absolutely love living in this community. I agree with your opinions and although I do not live in Seaside I shop and dine there. We are members of the Seaside tennis and fitness club. We attend the Seaside chapel, where my wife is a volunteer. We are donors to the Seaside Repertory Theater and our daughter was married on the beach in Seaside this past year. We have made wonderful friends in Seaside and all through the local community. We support all the local businesses in Seaside and bordering communities.

In the past year we have felt as though Seaside is taking on an image of "if you do not live here, you're not welcome." I will give you 2 perfect example's. This past summer, members of our family walked from our home to the Seaside Fitness center (where we are members). As they crossed past Tupelo St. into Seaside, they were confronted by an individual who asked them if they lived in Seaside and of course the answer was no, "we are going to the fitness club". They were then told that Seaside is a private community and is only for homeowners or guests of Seaside. WOW! I guess that was in the small print when we paid our family membership last year.

Example 2: I work from home and I will several times per week ride my bike at lunchtime to a local shop to purchase something to eat. Many times I would ride into Seaside and stop at Modica's or Roly Poly, buy lunch and walk to a pavilion to enjoy the beauty of the beach. About a month ago,I stopped at Modica's, bought a sandwich, hopped on my bike and stopped at one of the pavilion's to eat and enjoy the beautiful day before returning to work. Within 2 minutes of sitting down and unwrapping my sandwich, I was confronted by a woman who asked if I was a resident of Seaside. Of course I said no I was just eating lunch before returning to work. She then proceeded to tell me that this was private property, I was trespassing and I had to leave or she would call security. Again WOW! I looked around, there was no one on the pavilion, on the beach or anywhere else I could see. I very politely gathered my lunch, bid her a good day and left. I wasn't mad but actually sad, I was not welcome. I will not go back to Seaside at lunchtime and I doubt we will renew our membership to the tennis and fitness club either.

I am perplexed to understand why Seaside would want to encourage this? I say encourage it since obviously it is not discouraged. I doubt that one person would have the authority to place signs at entrances and all around Seaside, so it must be a Seaside majority vote that rules? I guess this is acceptable to Robert Davis as well? I have never met Mr. Davis but admire or shall I say did admire his vision and "new urbanism" approach. If this Seaside is new urbanism then I am not a fan.

I agree that with the limited parking space in front of houses,
people attending events etc, should not park in front of homes. Which leads me to another interesting observation. Golf carts unless they are Seaside golf carts are not allowed? Does it not make more sense that a golf cart would help reduce car traffic and actually be safer and cause less of a parking problem than a full size car? If this is the direction that the Seaside community wants to go then I would suggest installing security gates and issuing passes that only admit Seaside residents. I doubt that the Seaside businesses owners are pleased that customers are being run out of town, but Seaside is doing an effective job of discouraging folks from coming in.

We do not loiter, we pick up trash if it is strewn around, whether it is
Seaside or Seacrest or Grayton Beach or Seagrove. We live here and respect the beauty of all of Walton County.

Tony Lagratta
Seagrove Beach"

Tony, Well said.... and gesh how sad that sharing is down to its "Mine". Oh well, to me its simple.. but hard as well. The law is that.. if we disagree lets advocate to change it.. Not break it. Again my opinion is that a solid line of communication here is what is needed. I respect the people that founded Seaside, I know when all it was , was a sand and dune with low maintained road. Thanks to the founders IMO we now have a wonderful place that shines. But we need to get through this small mental block and work together to make it a positive. Just my opinion again.

Waiting For - wow. That blows my mind. At one time I did live in Seaside - and now I live in Seagrove. But the comments that the 'homeowners' made directly to you really breaks my heart. Seriously. Good people are here. It's all about Karma. Seaside 'homeowners' just need to remember that when they feel like that need to ruin someone's lunch.

__________________
"If only we'd stop trying to be happy, we could have a pretty good time"

My point of contention is not different than it is with the beach being customarily used by the public for many years. When Seaside was growing over the last twenty five years, they allowed the public to use every access, pavilion and streets. I believe that although that property may be privately owned, since the public has been allowed full access, the public may have some customary use rights to what they are now being permitted from using. Continuing to use that which has customarily been used by the public for numerous years, MAY be staying within the boundaries of the Law. Only a Court can make that decision, and my opinion is not a "legal opinion" on the subject.

__________________

SJ I am with you 110% on this, I just think things would be different if everyone did not have to pay the penalty for the actions of a few that made a dump out of these folks private property. I respect other peoples property and clean up after myself in public, (Wife made me put "PUBLIC" in there ) But I feel the reason is that folks are sick and tied of paying for something that others just trash and leave behind a mess. I mean its not everyone more than likely its only a few, but than the few seem to be the reason behind some of the actions, all be-it not that I like people ruining a mans lunch but I could understand if that lady seen the mess others left behind and she pays for it? Dunno again communication is a GOOD thing.

Not to point fingers - but most of the damage that I've seen in Seaside are from kids. Kids that feel as though since they are not at home can do what ever they want. Again. Not to point fingers. :)

__________________
"If only we'd stop trying to be happy, we could have a pretty good time"

I know its sad but.. guess who will inherit that family home and become the new generation of homeowners?? What then?

__________________
WARNING: Things posted by this user may offend some people. All things posted above are the opinions of poster and not necessarily the opinions of this site..or anyone else for that matter. They might not even make sense or be suitable for children. Come to think of it, they might be unsuitable for adults or human consumption. Have a nice day.

But it is most likely why these folks (With or Without Kids) that live there and pay the bills might feel a bit upset? Society today is another thread, but anyone and I stress the word again ANYONE that See's someone doing something wrong needs to step up and point it out ...1st to the person thats doing it and if that don't work call the authorities. Sorry ...But I feel if someone watches someone leave trash behind or damage property and say nothing then....they are just as guilty as the one who done it.. again just my opinion.

I would like to point out that the road signs between seaside and seagrove property have been there for at least a few years. I know because I regularly cut through one or both streets. I've never been stopped except once when leaving seaside entering seagrove, a man yelled at me saying this was not a cut through (he was on the seagrove side). I didn't stop to argue. I understand that the residential section is primarily for guests and residents, and respect this. but sometimes you gotta get to the pool or whatever to visit with friends.

once again, I have to say that we've always been treated very well at any time we step foot in Seaside (which is quite often) and enjoy visiting all our friends and their businesses in Seaside. we don't have to wait for an "event" to go. we feel welcome any time. of course, we do choose NOT to go to seaside during peak times/events... that's just asking for headache!

Why so bitter? Your posts in this thread match your Grinch avatar. Seaside is not Whoville.

Seaside is all about the kids. The kids are making memories that will last a lifetime. It warms my heart to see kids of all ages playing in Seaside. And adults acting like kids. Most of the kids in Seaside don't own there. They are lucky to be able to visit. Hopefully one day they will grow into fine adults who realize they are lucky.

Now go buy a kid a present, you seasick crocodile.

The attitudes and situations described in this thread show what is a HUGE problem all over this area and country. Sharing and common courtesy is becoming a foreign concept and the sense of community that made people flock here is in danger of disappearing as more and more territorial signs go up every day.

The Seaside pavillions ARE private and people using them inappropriately is a common problem. However, someone renting a home in Seagrove and having a wedding reception or party in a Seaside pavillion is quite a different issue than someone quietly eating a sandwich in one.

Someone parking in your driveway, running over landscaping, or blocking you in is also quite a different issue than someone parking a car in a designated parking space that just happens to be in front of your house.

Someone enjoying the beach in a respectful manner is also quite a different issue than someone holding a noisy kegger on your back porch.

There are obnoxious and rude things people do that justifiably cause complaints and preclude others from using resources and then there are everyday neighborly uses that harm noone. People need to differentiate between the two, stop using lawyers to solve every issue, and get a freakin' grip!

__________________
The enemy is ignorance.

I feel the need to add that you could wander around in Seaside for days without anyone saying anything other than "beautiful day, isn't it"?

I might have to go experiment.

Kurt, Thanks for the "Grounding"! Excellent point!

Just realized that stuff like this at Seaside was a thread discussion already, months ago...in September!

Interestingly though, today, a friend visiting who owns at Seaside said the signs didn't get discussed when the owners had their annual meeting in October...maybe the "chosen frozen few" didn't want the majority of Seaside owners to realize what they were up to?

That has always been my feeling. I do go there to wander--usually I'll scurry down the street behind the toy store toward the church (I'll go in the church if it's unlocked) and find a place to just sit still and watch the clouds go by. (If there are no clouds, I just look at the clear blue sky until my eyes cross.)

I've never accessed the beach from Seaside, but I've used their bathroom. I've sat on their beaches. I've driven (safely and respectfully) through their streets. I've never heard a peep from anyone.

Am I just lucky?

__________________

Remember a similar discussion about Rosemary? I don't like the bad karma these "few" are projecting onto the place as a whole, but I can see both sides.

I'm all about Seaside's beaches (the sand) being public- I walk through there all the time. I don't park my chair there because the beach is scrawny and there are many beaches along 30A that are far superior.

I don't think it is out of line to buy lunch and eat it on a walkover or beach, but I do think it is out of line to pull up in a car or pull a wagon full of beach stuff and use the walkovers as if you were staying there. That falls under my "rules of use" test- would you just walk into a resort, condo, or hotel and use their pool, exercise room, or other facilities, just because you dined or shopped there? If you are not staying there, you don't have the right to use these amenities. Apparently this is happening too often and has become noticeable to owners, and I am sure it is aggravating.

I do think it is a bit snarky to be nasty about the Seaside back roads. If someone wants a nice quiet road, they should live in the country, not in a uber high-density community. Just 2 cars seem like a traffic jam because of Seaside's design, but hey, if you like that design and bought in Seaside, you better learn to live with the negatives too. It is my understanding that these are public streets, and we can walk or drive on them. It's a little late in the game to gate off the residential area, and I really doubt that was the original intention of Robert Davis and the New Urbanists.

So, what to do? I will continue to enjoy what Seaside has to offer the public- events, shopping, theater, dining, Bud's, the big "bowl". Why would a town center have been built if it wasn't intended to be a real town center? If somebody that lives there doesn't like us being there, too bad.

This is just a guess, but I bet that many of the unhappy Seasiders have their primary residences in gated communities. Which means they could never understand the concept of Seaside anyway.

I did just that this afternoon. Walked into Roly Poly, bought an ice cream, took it down to the pavilion, ate it, and admired the nice day at the beach, then threw out my own trash.

I guess the "trespass patrol" wasn't out today. Everybody just said hi and went about their business.

I took it a step farther and drove through the streets and out through the best dirt roads in Seagrove.

Thinking about the big pavilion, Roly Poly used to have a sign there noting the pavilion was the dining pavilion for Roly Poly. I guess Seaside didn't like that.

My personal guess regarding the signs is that Seaside's lawyer thought of this one, after The Retreat put up their private beach signs and ran into confrontation.

Did I mention that I drove to Seaside last night and saw only one car, in addition to mine, in the entire development? I really don't think they are worried too much about trespassers on days like these.

__________________

There weren't too many there this afternoon, either. None of the galleries had any browsers, B&A was quiet, Perspicacity was abandoned, and I got a parking spot right in front of Modica on the first pass.

I know from personal experience that it takes about 5 hours to attend one of those meetings, and that's excluding travel time for those meetings that are in Defuniak Springs.

__________________

so, now is the perfect time to go to Seaside and enjoy the beautiful scenery and just walk around, etc. plenty of parking! and they do rely on us locals quite a bit during the offseason. I think Seaside has always known the importance of inclusion. heck, they are the only resort town I know of that offers recreation/pool & fitness to anyone who wants to pay for it. I'm thinking of joining up just to have pool access year round. also, I hope to have our little one in the Seaside Neighborhood School someday - which offers a variety of experiences within the community of Seaside and beyond.

Quote:

Why not create an association (If there is not one) that represents the entire Sowal group and area. We elect these folks into office to represent just us. They are required to attend all city and county as well as state functions concerning our area. They go to county meetings with "OUR" agenda and present it and we count at the polls when its time. I am open on this just flashed through my head as I drove through Seaside this morning. What say you?

While this sounds like a great idea, I can guarantee you from years of experience with organizing groups of any kind, that if you have more than 2 people in this association you will have a disagreement on the agenda that represents the group. What is "ours" to one person is something entirely different to another. Good luck getting anyone to agree.

Something else to always remember, those against something are always very vocal, those that support something hardly ever make that known.

It think it would be wrong to think that the actions of this person represents a community such as Seaside.

Who is to say that this person even lives in Seaside. And even if they do, you are always going to have some that can't get outside of thier own personal agenda to welcome others in. That is their personal problem, not a representation of the entire community. For every one such person, you will find many others that are the opposite.

We already have SWCC, and I have a lot of respect for Anita Page. Adding yet another organization would be redundant and diffuse our efforts IMO.

I'm with you, Toots. I enjoy Seaside. I don't go to the beach there because I have better beach access at our home. But I enjoy dining and shopping at Seaside.

__________________

would it be possible to post the article from the seaside times that prompted this thread? would love to read it!!

we stayed in seaside for spring break, sometimes Christmas, sometimes summer vacation, for 10 years before building a house in seagrove. we watched the community grow throughout the 90s. we have also noticed a change in seaside of late - decidedly chilly! a real shame - it has always been a fun place in which to shop, eat and stroll. the developer and businesses might want to get a handle on it.

it's just a wonderful place to be. I can't say we do much dining there. but we do halloween and christmas parade, and lots of concerts, tons and tons of shopping, great coffee and groceries at Modica, Seaside Store has great tshirts, etc, ....

Food? well, no. would rather go anywhere else.

but, funn and friendly gathering place? yes!!! all the way!!!

if you ask me, we're fortunate to have a place like Seaside - it does not have to open up completely as it does to the community. no other resort community on 30A does this. unless they are having an event and trying to lure you there. however, Seaside is just there for you to come and enjoy. period.

I think the signs are nothing new, and maybe Susan didn't know this.

If you've ever read up on The Walt Disney Company, especially "Disney Wars", you're familiar with how Michael Eisner and his minions tried to reduce long-term maintenance, enforce rules, and put up warning signs at Disney World and Disney land. Many negative actions developed under Eisner, leading the late Walt Disney's brother Roy to state that Eisner and crew had turned the Walt Disney Company into a "rapacious, soul-less" company.

Whether it's Town Council, SCDC, DSA or individual homeowner factions, the negatives in Seaside that have developed need to stop. Period. Fight over, let's kiss and make up, enjoy why we all came to this magical place.

Take down the negative signs and realize that saying "sure, enjoy this place" is much nicer than "no, you can't, because I said so".

We've been watching this thread with sadness, as it hurts when our beloved Seaside appears to have strayed from its open, welcoming mindset. However, Kurt snapped it all back into reality with the quote above.

Many of you on SoWal.com know us, and there are many more we know only through postings, but hope to meet someday. We own Fired Up Paint-Your-Own Pottery, a happy place where kids can be kids, families can spend time together, couples can celebrate weddings, anniversaries, babies, and more.

Our business has been in Seaside 12 years, and much has changed within Seaside in that time, some positive, some less than anticipated. However, I can tell you that Fired Up is finishing up its best year ever, and it is because kids don't read the signs, see the negatives, and comment on them in the same harmful way we adults do.

Kids just want to have fun. We have kids of our own, and we're thankful we've become one of those welcoming places in Seaside where kids can see and feel the fun as soon as they walk through our door.

This thread should ultimately be about ideas for bringing back the magic of Seaside in all areas, not creating more councils, meetings, and committees. If ever there were a time in Seaside's history where Robert Davis could step in and remind folks why Seaside should be about people, and kids, their dogs, and the beach, now would be a good time...

Please, bring your kids and come enjoy Seaside through their eyes. Roll in the grass, stroll through the shops, enjoy theatre and comedy at the Rep. Enjoy the magic within Seaside that Kurt reminds us of through our kids eyes.

Oh, and one last thing: Happy Holidays to you and your kids...enjoy Christmas through their eyes this year.

Most of the private signs at the pavilions were new this year, except for the one by the "dining pavilion" which was posted after Hurricane Dennis (I think) in 2004. The private marquees at each of the roads into seaside off of 30A were new as of this year. I disagree about Seaside opening its doors to the public. They really only open the stores and the ampitheater lawn to the public, and post signs everywhere else, noting that its private. Heck, even WaterColor doesn't have "private" signs posted on their parks, bridges, trails and beach access walkovers, and the roads are available for the pubic to drive or walk upon.

__________________

Seaside is like a second home to me. I love to just walk around shop, eat, and meet friends. The Davis family had a dream and I believe it has grown even bigger than they ever imagined. Seaside has changed some and it will change some more. I think of many of the business owners as family. I love to stop in and catch up on my old friends.
I worked for B and B Resort and Josephine's Bed and Breakfast. I could tell you many stories about our local history but instead I just want to say Seaside is a beautiful place with people that will welcome you and if you choose to see anything else I guess you will.

__________________
"I cannot tell you any spiritual truth that deep within you don't know already. All I can do is remind you of what you have forgotten" Eckhart Tolle

Hmmmm... Does this mean people who don't own at Seaside can pay to use the pool on a daily, weekly, monthly or yearly basis? Do you have more info on this, Tootsie (or anyone)? I'm assuming it's a heated pool?

Does Rosemary Beach offers non-owners the ability to pay to use their pool as well? Heated pool?

As for this conversation, I've enjoyed visiting Seaside for the past 5 years and I like it that I can participate in the good things offered by that community or avoid it - it's always my choice. I haven't tested their boundaries by using the boardwalks, beach, or walking through the neighborhoods (I did drive through them once) though I'd like to make walking through Seaside one of my regular walks when I get down there (but never seem to get myself there!).

I love this quote and it seems relevant:
"The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven." John Milton

For me, SoWal and the many beach communities, including Seaside, are a piece of heaven on earth.

__________________
Paula

Those huge intimidating signs on the beach are most definitely new.

I know you can pay to join the Rosemary fitness center regardless of where you live. Not sure if membership includes the pool.

Paula: you can pay an annual fee to Seaside for pools and tennis courts. there is a pool they cover during winter and it is heated (spidey took swim lessons there one winter).

you can pay to use Rosemary Beach fitness center, and tennis facility. I don't know about pool.


Beach Bimmer - love love love your post.

SJ - maybe Seaside has new signs, but I do know they have always had signs at each entrance to the residential area stating that the roads were for residents and guests use only. those have been there forever. we always comment on them whenever we violate them - which has been about a million times.

And it does make sense to restrict vehicle traffic in residential areas since the roads seem so very narrow (more so than in Watercolor) and more than half the people who would drive in the area, owner or registered guest or no, seem to be driving a giant SUV.

If they've been yelling at people for just walking around north of 30-A, then that becomes another story.

You are correct about the private street signs on the posts, but I was specifically referring to the marquees which they added this year at the entrance to each street. The SWFD made them remove those, along with the other center posts, which prohibited firetrucks from entering the streets.

__________________

From today's Walton Sun :

Seaside required to remove signs
December 21, 2007
By Sean Boone

The Seaside Town Council removed its middle-street signs last week due to accessibility issues. The community was told by the South Walton Fire District that they violated fire code and needed to be removed immediately.
The signs, which sat in the middle of each street corner adjacent to County Road 30A, made it very difficult for larger emergency vehicles to get around.
SWFD Life Safety Coordinator Kay Money said that the signs were against fire code and that the streets were just too small for them.
“We had a worker fall off a roof recently and we could not get to him because of the blocked access,” she said. “We had to remove two signs to get back there.”

and yesterday's NW Florida News:

Seaside removes signs that violated fire code
NW Florida Daily News
Thursday December 20th, 2007
The Seaside Town Council removed its middle-street signs last week due to accessibility issues. The community was told by the South Walton Fire District that they violated fire code and needed to be removed immediately.

The signs, which sat in the middle of each street corner adjacent to County Road 30A, made it very difficult for larger emergency vehicles to get around.

SWFD Life Safety Coordinator Kay Money said that the signs were against fire code and that the streets were just too small for them.

“We had a worker fall off a roof recently and we could not get to him because of the blocked access,” she said. “We had to remove two signs to get back there.”

i think that the problem with Seaside as a whole is pretty much the same as WC. you have so many factions in place that are making up the town. take for instance the CRA rental agency that is run by who "interwest" from who know where and then each street in Seaside has it's own association and then you have the homeowners association as a whole. I know that last season the Tupalo association moved ahead on some things that would be construed as "un-inviting" based on their needs not Seasides. As far as comments concerning a group that would sit in on some of these meetings; it would be farfetched to me. the battles I hear about just between the renters and private homeowners seem down right bloody at times. then take into account people starting to spend more time in the private homes and renters paying top dollar to stay in other homes. you can go on and on. Kurt is right in so many ways about just for the kids. I walk Seaside and WC everyday, it would seem to me the only way is to get everyone to a discussion table and find tolerance but at the same time. who could get that started even in each of those communities themselves let alone Seagrove or other area's that touch these? I've heard the sides, i empathize with some of each argument. very hard stuff! I really think the Beach tide ruling is the answer to some of this. take it to a state/fed level and then see how some of this plays out.

__________________
Deadeye Dick!

Montana, do you care to share the "Beach tide ruling" with us? I have no clue as to what you are talking about when you say that.

__________________

i'm refering to the arguments in the "led away in handcuffs" thread. Mean tide? Hight tide? wet sand/mean tide? what ever! just the fact that if you don't want people on your land right now is the time to speak up .....thus, all the signage. if the county/state/usa rules on that at some time then maybe it would stop all of the other signage? I'm of the thinking that it stems from that more than anything.

__________________
Deadeye Dick!

Oh, I see. I was a bit confused by the new term. I agree that the signage was likely recently placed, at the request of Seaside's attorney to stop the public use which has been happening since Seaside began many years ago. Interestingly, I haven't seen any signs stating that the beach is private in Seaside -- only signs that the accesses in Seaside are private.

__________________

Those new signs on the beach do not specifically state that the beach is private, but imho they imply it. Especially to someone from somewhere else who is not familiar with the whole private/public beach legal mess. My guess is that they have been recently placed because the new parking lot at the access between Seaside and WaterColor will be opening soon. They are intended to steer the riff raff to the west, away from Seaside's beaches, and they will probably work. I sat at the top of the walkover there recently and watched a few people approach the west end sign from WaterColor. It got their attention - most everyone stopped and stared at it for a while. Then some people turned back, and some others kept on going, but cautiously, if I am any judge of body language.

Do you mind sharing your definition of Riff Raff ?
Interesting use of words IMO.

I will say the peeps at the toy store were very nice there in Xmas pasts. They even gift wrapped. Some of the stores are fuNN. They probably don't like the signs either.

We don't like the signs either...

...and we own one of the stores in Seaside that tries every day to be FUNN!

Your Fired Up Friends

Watercolor is currently addressing the "golf cart" issue, not trying to keep people out but for liaibility reasons we felt all carts should conform to Florida regs and be insured in case someone got run over. The Seaside sign seems to be just trying to do the same thing.

How about biking? In years past, my family has enjoyed bike rides through Seaside and Watercolor streets - not everyday - just once or twice during our week there to enjoy the architecture and beauty of the neighborhoods. We also stop for drinks and snacks and shopping. We do not use beach accesses, and we're always respectful, especially since we understand the roads and property belong to others. When we bike through in April and June this year, are we in danger of being told to leave?

Sounds like you already know that riding your bicycles on private streets is not permitted.

__________________

I heard through the Grapevine last night that the powers to be at Seaside decided after all this commotion about the privacy stuff there that as of January 15th they are closing off all access to the Seaside community and posting security guards at all entry points and have further added that they intend to wall off the community and put broken glass on top of the walls to prevent people from climbing over. 30-A will no longer be a thoroughfare and should any none resident or guest want to enter must pay for a daily pass. Now…. You heard it through the Grapevine….

Attached Images

kabul_guard.jpg (138.6 KB, 6 views)

Gardening1970, as an owner in Seaside I would completely expect that you are welcome to ride your bike around Seaside and enjoy the town. It would truely be sad if we got to the point where that was not allowed.

From everything I have heard as an owner, the issue is not with visitors that enjoy the town, park cars correctly, and don't take advantage of the hospitality which Seaside has historically been know for.

There are clearly those visitors that step over the line and that might be why there has been a bit of a knee jerk reaction.

These are the realities we have to deal with:

-Parking is an issue and homeowners and guests of theirs should have priority to park next to their homes. Many visitors could care less about this common courtesy. New parking opening up may help this a bit.

-The bollards that were put on the eastern boarder of Seaside were there strictly to prevent construction cut through traffic that occurs during the busy months and boom times of last few years. Seaside streets are not designed for that kind of traffic especially with many small children on foot and on bikes. I also was told Fire Dept had been consulted before they went up.

-Numerous homes near Seaside, but not in Seaside, make it clear to their guests that they have full use of all Seaside facilites, when they don't pay one cent to repair, rebuild, insure, etc them. Some even claim they are in Seaside to make more rental income. Full wedding parties have come from outside Seaside to use the walkovers, without any permission. This is what has gotten things so out of hand.


I know there is a middle ground that should be achievable, but 10% of the inconsiderate visitors have made it difficult for all the owners as well as the 90% of visitors we welcome with open arms.

Just my 2 cents

__________________
If you are lucky enough to be at the beach......
........you are lucky enough.

Thank you for your post Coast is Clear. You are a very gracious owner. I understand the dilemma, and like you, I hope a middle ground is achievable.

I had no idea...I always assumed that I was contributing to the beauty of their streets by riding through. (*snort!*)

I was glad that Coast is Clear posted that we are invited, if not permitted.

__________________

Ok folks, I am now Mad as H@%$ and I ain't gonna take it no more! I say we all go to Publix and get our 100 Bag Lipton Tea and meet at the Bowl in Seaside and toss our Lipton Tea and have a Seaside Tea Party! Come on SJ this is right up your Access path LOL!

Seasides Future skyline!

Attached Images

boston-tea-party-2006.jpg (9.7 KB, 3 views)

People using things incorrectly is always an issue and there are always those oh-so-classy and polite folks who ruin it for everyone else. Big difference between addressing chronic problems and the mine, mine, mine mentality we keep hearing more and more of - and not just in Seaside.

I have no problem with security running off non-seaside guests people who claim a private beachside pavillion as their wedding reception location or adding to the HOA coffers by towing any inappropriately parked cars. Based on my personal observations, towing the cars parked in the delivery zone by Bud and Alley's and the 5 minute parking in front of the post office would reap $$$.

I've also never had any problems with Seaside's roads despite the signs that were recently removed, (helps that my vehicle isn't an overside SUV w/ a fully loaded rear rack) and on the occasions I've needed to have a semi or large vehicle use the road, I've just popped the sign out.

However, I have definitely seen an attitude shift in Seaside. I don't know if it is the new management company or a couple rotten apples, but it has definitely changed. There are still a lot of wonderful people and businesses there, but the mood is changing, and not for the better.

__________________
The enemy is ignorance.

I thought this was discussed previously, but I swear, people are becoming either more self-absorbed, or just plain rude. My father lives in a gated community in Sarasota and has said that it is getting worse there with people and the rules and the nitpicking.

Scooterbug44, you bring up a good point on changes at the management company which I definitely feel has not helped the situation. We do not use them for our rentals because there was clearly the feeling that they were in it for profit only and could care about little else. Kinda takes away that sense of community when going for the last buck is highest priority.

As a more general observation, having property values go up as much as they have has obviously narrowed the market as to the types of people that can afford homes along 30-A. I have always felt that getting that high a percentage of type A personalities in one area can't be a good thing. In Seaside I think it could be even worse.

__________________
If you are lucky enough to be at the beach......
........you are lucky enough.

It is sad but true, our world is becoming a "me" society. It is all about one's self, numero uno. Screw everyone else, people are looking out for themselves only.
I hate to see this happen, but I don't believe that Seaside is the only area affected by this. Just my 2 cents!
I feel sorry for the people who have businesses there, they are the ones that are working hard and will be the ones hardest hit if people do not feel welcomed in the area.

My wife and I visited the Seaside shops yesterday, We even went to Fired Up...Talk about that in a sec... But what we saw after reading all these post on this thread was a very warm and friendly community mixed with residents, guest, and even tourist with the local businesses open with lots of activity. I Love Seaside, I think the folks that are having issues most likely have had the "BAD" experience and have a nasty taste in their mouth. I much can't blame some for feeling the need to protect the place they as well Love and invested in. I say that a thread like this when read by "Outsiders" who are thinking about coming to our area, would probably think Seaside equals prudes and mean signage. Keep in mind in order for "Tourist to get to Seaside they must travel through other communities as well, so its not just a "Seaside Issue" it is a community issue. Just a little food for thought.

Now our Fired Up visit, These folks have it going! The wife and I will return and enjoy what they have to offer. The young lady was very nice and very informative! It was a wonderful experience! Hope others that read this at least stop by and see the beautiful things that they have to offer! and pricing is not that bad! Great job Fired Up! and staff!

Thank you Seaside.. Your beautiful and lovely!

It is definitely not limited to any one specific area. If you travel anywhere you will see it. Just recently there was a major brawl at Disney between Pop Warner athletes and the parents. It got so bad Disney asked them to leave the resort property. I mean good grief when kids and their parents start a brawl and have to be removed, it is very sad.

But then in my opionion, our nation's leaders are all about themselves, why should the rest of the country be any different.

If you stay off Tupelo you should be OK.
I walk through Seaside all the time and everyone is friendly, but I do avoid the gazebo on Tupelo.

Thanks, Toots. I'll be checking into short-term use of pools at Seaside/Rosemary Beach at some point - it would be nice to have access to a heated pool in the cooler months.

__________________
Paula

What's wrong with Tupelo? Is there an especially tough gang of owners in that area?

__________________

Yep! There are some nice people who own on Tupelo, but a couple of owners there stirred up this whole mess. Note that the offensive "sandwich" signs first appeared on Tupelo Street.

__________________
Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.

Member of the Tupelo Street Gang flashing the "Sandwich Sign"





.

__________________
But hey...Top Ramen tastes a whole lot better when you eat it off of a Granite Countertop. (Mr & Mrs Too Much Homebuyer)

Florida State Flower

__________________

I find this whole situation very sad. Seaside was where we stayed for many years, even when we stayed somewhere else we visited there to shop and have dinner. I always felt welcomed in true southern hospitality. Exclusion wasn't part of the small town feeling we fell in love with.

__________________
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila...floor.

I was there a lot this past weekend. Nothing but nice everywhere I went...

__________________

that attitude has NOTHING to do with the constructs and concept of new urbanism. that is merely a local selfishness that is cultivated by narrow-minded developers.

real urbanism and NEW urbanism offers an architectural and planned answer to sharing space and the movement and behavior of people.

seaside as well as other local developments fight their plan and architecture by attempting to force different behavior using signs and, as we have heard here, aggressive behavior. these are antithetical to the philosophy and basic tenants of new urbanism.

it's not that way everywhere, i promise. the minute you leave that area, you will see there are plenty of good, unselfish people in the world who think of their communities and neighbors first and understand the benefit of an open society. people who know how to balance their own concerns with the concerns of their neighbors and do the best for the area. it's sad, but go spend more than 6 months somewhere else and your optimism about the world will be renewed.

What's a 'sandwich' sign? I just got the red x.

A “sandwich board” sign is a folding sign that’s typically placed on a sidewalk or street in front of a business establishment advertising a theatrical event, lunch special, etc. They first appeared on Tupelo Street in Seaside saying “Slow, Children at Play.” They quickly spread to other parts of Seaside and were staggered along the streets so cars had to swerve to avoid them. The intent was to discourage outsiders from using Seaside streets. Walton County recently declared they were a code violation and had them removed.

__________________
Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.

Hopefully, most of you have read Managing Editor Susan Vallee’s article (Welcome to Seaside – Or Not) in the Holiday Edition of The Seaside Times. She’s very opposed to the proliferation of signs in Seaside and the message they convey.

Susan wrote, “I’m curious to hear what homeowners and visitors to Seaside think of the signs that have been cropping up around town lately.” She is encouraging letters to the editor and she asks that they be sent to editor@seasidefl.com. I sent my letter yesterday and I hope that many others do the same.

__________________
Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.