The Town Council removed a few signs so they could be reworded. They'll be going back up. I'm not sure about the one you're referencing though. I'll check.
I checked today, and the signs noting private access, which were posted at the entrance to the beach beside the Rolly Polly and under the obelisk, are still not back up.
I also noticed that Seaside finally torn down the kitchen of Cafe Spiazza, which reportedly was built on the adjacent lot.
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"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
I checked today, and the signs noting private access, which were posted at the entrance to the beach beside the Rolly Polly and under the obelisk, are still not back up.
I also noticed that Seaside finally torn down the kitchen of Cafe Spiazza, which reportedly was built on the adjacent lot.
...uh oh....the condos are coming the condos are coming.
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Mr. Angel and I were on our way back to Seagrove from a nice walk up to Watercolor on 30A at a bout 3:30 this afternoon, and encountered a meeting at E. Ruskin of some official-looking folks along with (maybe) some residents or Seaside admin people. They seemed to be checking to see how to re-erect the "Private" street signposts that the county had Seaside remove last month, moving them closer to 30A than they had been, but still in the center of the street. Thank goodness we were walking on the county bike path/sidewalk - we might have been arrested!! Although I guess we did actually walk on E. Ruskin in order to get across. So - here we go again!
didn't overhear their conversation, but they seemed to be discussing possible placement, moving the post to several positions. there were what looked like policemen (with badges) and possibly firemen (?? not sure of badges) plus seaside residents.
just read the most recent issue of the Seaside Times. All the letters to the editor came from people who are against the private beach signs/attitude; and there is an Op Ed piece by Robert Davis indicating his displeasure.
So, who in Seaside has decided to make it a closed community with a private beach?
didn't overhear their conversation, but they seemed to be discussing possible placement, moving the post to several positions. there were what looked like policemen (with badges) and possibly firemen (?? not sure of badges) plus seaside residents.
They had a SWFD fire truck in Seaside last week, looked like they were testing how well it could make it around corners and through the streets...
I had a friend down last weekend looking at property in the area. She picked up a Seaside Times and read the letters to the editor, etc. Was so turned off by all of the "unwelcome" type publicity decided against looking any further in the Seaside/Seagrove area. She felt their money could be better spent in a more friendly atmosphere.
I had a friend down last weekend looking at property in the area. She picked up a Seaside Times and read the letters to the editor, etc. Was so turned off by all of the "unwelcome" type publicity decided against looking any further in the Seaside/Seagrove area. She felt their money could be better spent in a more friendly atmosphere.
Your friend may have been a client I was working with. Decided that PC was a safer bet due to the "Private Beach" issues. They purchased in PC.
I had a friend down last weekend looking at property in the area. She picked up a Seaside Times and read the letters to the editor, etc. Was so turned off by all of the "unwelcome" type publicity decided against looking any further in the Seaside/Seagrove area. She felt their money could be better spent in a more friendly atmosphere.
We all knew this was coming. The other half is the folks who decide to vacation elsewhere, not to risk a confrontation with the sheriff on what was supposed to be a laid-back beach vacation.
this reminds me so much of my sister's situation on nantucket. many of those who own homes there constantly bemoan the invasion of tourists and "day-trippers" (even though the vast majority of owners were once one or the other when they first came to the island). they all love their shops and wonderful restaurants, but would like the tourists and rabble to go away so that they could be enjoyed in peace. there is a complete disconnect for them that without the tourists, there would be no wonderful shops and restaurants because the full-time and (mostly) part-time islanders could not possibly support all of the businesses there.
in seaside, those who are now homeowners and are advocating the closing off of beaches, streets, etc., probably have forgotten what drew them there in the first place. and now they want to change seaside into a quasi-gated community - something it never was planned to be. it really is too bad - seaside has always been such a special place.
in seaside, those who are now homeowners and are advocating the closing off of beaches, streets, etc., probably have forgotten what drew them there in the first place. and now they want to change seaside into a quasi-gated community - something it never was planned to be. it really is too bad - seaside has always been such a special place.
Remember, Seaside was the first New Urban development. At one point in the initial planning discussions with DPZ, they were trying to decide whether 30A should run through it or around it. They decided it needed to be open. You can see the DPZ influence in Rosemary and Alys, which are laid out the same way by the same planners. Ultimately, those 3 can never completely become gated in the way that Watersound is. But the owners can sure make then unpleasant to visit, if they choose to be that way.
I am afraid anyone will have to look a long time to find any community without some type of problem. We find Seaside to be very friendly, and we definitely do not own there.
I do understand the need for nonresidents to be able to access the shops and restuarants, however unless you are visiting a resident I see no need to be on the residential streets. The streets within Seaside are so small and crowded, I am sure the residents do have access problems.
As to the signs at the Beach I always took that to mean the pavillions and the access that Seaside has, is provided for the their residents, I never took it to mean that the actual beach was not public.
There are always two sides to any problems, and usually the turth lies in the middle.
There really is no reason to ever be on any residential street unless you have some sort of business there and Seaside streets are not any narrower than most of the roads in Seagrove.
I think most of the issue w/ making the streets "private" has to do w/ non Seaside vacationers parking on them to use the beach accesses.
A "private" street is the antithesis of New Urbanism.
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I am afraid anyone will have to look a long time to find any community without some type of problem. We find Seaside to be very friendly, and we definitely do not own there.
I do understand the need for nonresidents to be able to access the shops and restuarants, however unless you are visiting a resident I see no need to be on the residential streets. The streets within Seaside are so small and crowded, I am sure the residents do have access problems.
As to the signs at the Beach I always took that to mean the pavillions and the access that Seaside has, is provided for the their residents, I never took it to mean that the actual beach was not public.
There are always two sides to any problems, and usually the turth lies in the middle.
One of the greatest pleasures of Seaside is strolling around. How could you think that no one but a resident needs to do that?
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Part of the pleasure of a Seaside (or Rosemary Beach for that matter) visit is strolling through the residential areas enjoying the architecture there, and trying to spot the Seaside kitties and other wildlife.
Part of the pleasure of a Seaside (or Rosemary Beach for that matter) visit is strolling through the residential areas enjoying the architecture there, and trying to spot the Seaside kitties and other wildlife.
Not long ago those Seaside kitties were trapped and “disposed of.” Cats first, tourists and neighbors next! Seaside was a lot friendlier when the cats were around.
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One of the greatest pleasures of Seaside is strolling around. How could you think that no one but a resident needs to do that?
Hey Mermy, I interpreted it as Minnie meant cars driving around, not people walking around. I could be wrong though...That is where I see the problem - cars driving around v e r y s l o w l y looking at everything and clogging up the streets.
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I have a feeling that some tourists forget they are meandering through a residental section and not a movie set. I have seen people on porches peering in windows in several developments. That would get a little old and fast.
One of the greatest pleasures of Seaside is strolling around. How could you think that no one but a resident needs to do that?
Cars, no reason for extra cars to be on the narrow residential streets, I have been over there several times this week on foot, never, ever has anyone been anything but extra nice.
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Re: Seaside - NOT Welcome:Redux
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid
One of the greatest pleasures of Seaside is strolling around. How could you think that no one but a resident needs to do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie
Cars, no reason for extra cars to be on the narrow residential streets, I have been over there several times this week on foot, never, ever had anyone be anything but extra nice.
Thanks for the clarification on your original post. As Mermaid stated, I too love to stroll through Seaside. It certainly does stand to reason that extra cars might create a traffic jam during peak seasons.
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I read Robert Davis' recent comments in the Seaside Times. I wish there was a way to easily post them. I applaud Robert for speaking up on the issue of the oxymoron, "private community."
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Still wondering, though, who is behind it? Perhaps as someone posted, the new rental company and a few disgruntled owners....sad.
I doubt that this has anything to do with the new rental company. My understanding is that it started with two disgruntled owners on Tupelo Street who had a lot of time on their hands. Then it spread to other areas of Seaside.
My guess is that most Seaside owners don’t have time to worry about signs and the squeaky wheels got their way.
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Re: Seaside - NOT Welcome:Redux
Are the streets in Seaside maintained by the county or by the Seaside owners? In our neighborhood we pay for maintainance of our private road, so we want to minimize traffic on it because the more traffic there is, the more our maintainance costs are.
Are the walkovers built and maintained by the county or the Seaside owners? Again, in our neighborhood we pay for our walkover, so we don't want people who are not owners or our guests using it. Not to mention the fact that when people park on our street to use our walkover, they turn our street into essentially a one-way street, making it difficult for owners and our renters to navigate the street. Our covenants require that we have enough off-street parking to accommodate the vehicles for all owners/renters staying at each residence, so we don't need to park on the street.
Another phenomenon that is happening in our neighborhood and many other beachfront neighborhoods is that a large group rents one of the houses in our neighborhood (all of which are very close to the beach) plus they rent several inexpensive places elsewhere because the houses don't sleep a group that large. The group all congregates during the daytime in our neighborhood so they can be a few steps from the beach, taking up the parking on our street and sometimes even blocking our driveways so we can't access our own off-street parking. There might be 25 or more people at one house during the day. Not sure what we can do about that. And BTW they always leave their junk on the beach when they check out that we have to clean up.
So I can somewhat relate to the problem of the Seaside owners. Seaside has so many people not staying there who are visiting the shops and restaurants. That's a good thing, but parking is almost impossible in the summer. I see people parking on the residential streets in Seaside and then getting out of their cars and walking to Quincy Circle. I have often thought how annoying it would be to pay a lot of money either as an owner or a renter and not be able to park in the assigned parking for my cottage or not having any parking available if guests stopped by to visit.
Maybe Seaside needs more public parking places? I'm not sure where they'd put them, though.
And I'm with Mermy -- I love strolling through Seaside, Rosemary, and other neighborhoods along 30-A. But we do it on foot or on our bicycles.
Still wondering, though, who is behind it? Perhaps as someone posted, the new rental company and a few disgruntled owners....sad.
I doubt that this has anything to do with the new rental company. My understanding is that it started with two disgruntled owners on Tupelo Street who had a lot of time on their hands. Then it spread to other areas of Seaside.
My guess is that most Seaside owners don’t have time to worry about signs and the squeaky wheels got their way.
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I asked a friend from Savannah Street and immediately she said there was no doubt they were the same three ring leaders, who got themselves, through proxy tactics, to be on the Seaside Tupelo Association board: She said the same three were behind the cat killing spree and destruction of the Whisker's Friends program run by Janet Evans
Re: Seaside - NOT Welcome:Redux
Quote:she said there was no doubt they were the same three ring leaders, who got themselves, through proxy tactics, to be on the Seaside Tupelo Association board: She said the same three were behind the cat killing spree and destruction of the Whisker's Friends program run by Janet Evans[/B]
cat killing spree? destruction of Whisker's Friends???? what is wrong with the rest of the Seaside residents? do they condone this behavior???? this is just SICK.
Re: Seaside - NOT Welcome:Redux
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodwitch58 Still wondering, though, who is behind it? Perhaps as someone posted, the new rental company and a few disgruntled owners....sad.
I doubt that this has anything to do with the new rental company. My understanding is that it started with two disgruntled owners on Tupelo Street who had a lot of time on their hands. Then it spread to other areas of Seaside.
My guess is that most Seaside owners don’t have time to worry about signs and the squeaky wheels got their way.
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I asked a friend from Savannah Street and immediately she said there was no doubt they were the same three ring leaders, who got themselves, through proxy tactics, to be on the Seaside Tupelo Association board: She said the same three were behind the cat killing spree and destruction of the Whisker's Friends program run by Janet Evans
I edited out the names you posted. I don't think hearsay is good enough to back up such accusations.
I agree Kurt. When I asked the question, I did not expect specific names. It seems to me that something as big as those private beach signs would have to be condoned and permitted by some organization at Seaside...just three individuals seems questionable to me.
Is there not a Homeowners Association? Or, a business association or some legal entitiy that governs what is allowed in Seaside? There certainly are those kind of associations all over the place in Sowal
After reading Robert Davis' Op Ed piece, I just found it strange that the founder of the community disagreed with the attitude of private, and yet the signs, and the overriding attitude, are being allowed anyway.
I did not know that Whiskers' Friends had been disbanded. that is really sad.
cat killing spree? destruction of Whisker's Friends???? what is wrong with the rest of the Seaside residents? do they condone this behavior???? this is just SICK.
Seaside is starting to sound like something out of a Stephen King novel.
.
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goodwitch, I believe that Seaside's HOA is headed by Neighborhood Associations, (Each street seems to be a neighborhood) and they are the ones who make the calls, as I understand it.
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Thanks, SJ. The entire situation seems bizarre to me--and really sad that Seaside has gone from the premier community for New Urbanism...to a place where visitors are not encouraged..and how could three people, or one street's association, decide to install those huge Private Beach signs? Just doesn't seem logical.
Oh well. there are plenty of other places to visit, eat, and sit on the beach..at least for the moment.
My guess is that most Seaside owners don’t have time to worry about signs and the squeaky wheels got their way.
Count me as a Seaside owner who is distressed at the recent developments. I bought a home at Seaside in the 90's because I fell in love with the town but also because I believe in the principles of the New Urbanism and don't want to live/vacation in a "private" or gated community. You're right that a lot of us don't have the time to deal with every issue that comes up, and unfortunately that's how a few people (or squeaky wheels, as you say) get their way. Kudos to Robert Davis for speaking out. I hope that, and other owners speaking up, will help reverse this trend. I haven't seen the Seaside paper yet (they mail it via Pony Express, I think) but I look forward to reading Davis' comments.
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I asked a friend from Savannah Street and immediately she said there was no doubt they were the same three ring leaders, who got themselves, through proxy tactics, to be on the Seaside Tupelo Association board: She said the same three were behind the cat killing spree and destruction of the Whisker's Friends program run by Janet Evans[/quote]
I know two of the three individuals involved. Suffice it to say, you’re absolutely right.
It’s surprising how apathy amongst Seaside owners is allowing these three to destroy Robert Davis’ dream that has created so much wealth and happiness for more than 25 years.
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well, take heart. we had a somewhat similar situation in our community, when a small group took control of the HOA. however, it didn't take much longer than one or two election cycles for the residents to bring things back around - the "crew" ended up selling and moving away when they discovered that they could not control things. maybe something similar will happen with seaside in time, especially with mr. davis weighing in - perhaps that will help wake up the residents!! i just hope there won't be any more "cat-killing sprees" or other things that can't be undone.
I've always enjoyed the open feel of Seaside, until I recently started to seeing all of the "private" signs. I think by installing them, they are pushing away the very people whom they attempt to attract. I know that parking is a major issue in Seaside, and I have never parked in front of a home on the streets of Seaside, unless I was an invited guest. With the newly paved, but yet to open, public parking lot to the west of Seaside, maybe less people who do park in front of homes on the streets in Seaside, will have more options of parking, and Seaside owners and guests will continue to have a place to park.
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"Mommy, what is God's last name?" -- my 3-year old, inquisitive nephew
This is sad. I have taken many guests there over the years. We patronize the restaurants, walk around, even over to the walkovers, admire the beach, take some photos, and leave things the way we found them (if not better-I try to pick up litter when I see it because it ticks me off). My family thought about taking some international inlaws there last year but I was really disheartened and embarrassed by the possibility of being asked to leave. My family is from Walton county -I want to share places with them where they will feel welcome. We would never dream of invading someone's privacy or parking in front of their homes (or rentals - we have family reunions at the beach, too). After "meeting" some of you online that work or live there who seem like really great people; I can imagine this must be even more frustrating to you.
30-A is a public road, right? Even after reading this entire thread, I am still a bit confused about what Seaside residents pay for, and what all taxpayers are paying for. I'm not trying to be patronizing - I truly just want to understand; isn't Seaside supposed to be a neo-urbanist "town" (with its own post office and everything)? Aren't town and city parks, gazebos, sidewalks, etc, usually open to the public? Does the fact that much of the town of Seaside is made up of rentals change this perception? I had also heard that initially Seaside was not initially supposed to build on the southern side of 30A? Could the fact that they did have fueled some of the territorial debate?
Anyway, just a train of thought...
As for strictly enjoying the beach, we now generally go to Grayton State Park, pay the fees, no worries. It has always been my favorite beach locale anyway (besides Blue Mountain - but now I'm worried about stepping onto the wrong piece of sand there).
DPZ is building a new "community" in Galveston, TX, not too far from where I currently reside. It will be interesting to see how they address similar issues.
30-A is a public road, right? Even after reading this entire thread, I am still a bit confused about what Seaside residents pay for, and what all taxpayers are paying for.
Seaside is a community. 30-A is a county road. The roads in Seaside are privately owned and maintained. It sure seems it places the business owners in a position. They need the traffic to survive, yet those that live there do not want the traffic. Competing interests, I guess.
I am starting to think that quite a few people in south Walton really want to live in a gated community, yet they want to do so without the costs, thus proactive government code enforcement. More and more several of you are starting to come off as isolationists to me.
If I am parking a car in Seaside it is because I am visiting someone there, frequenting a shop or restaurant, or attending an event open to the public and they need to realize that is part of life in a town.
I don't park in any space reserved for a certain unit, go there to use the beach or be a lookie-loo and cause traffic problems - things that I agree are problematic and that they are well w/in their rights to try and correct.
My issue is with them pitching a fit about cars parking on the streets (in designated spaces no less) during events and putting up signs ON the beach.
I definitely think some Seaside folks don't understand the difference between a community and a gated community. IMO the only benefit to a gated community is that it keeps the riff-raff in!
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Last edited by scooterbug44; 02-25-2008 at 02:29 PM.
Seaside is a community. 30-A is a county road. The roads in Seaside are privately owned and maintained. It sure seems it places the business owners in a position. They need the traffic to survive, yet those that live there do not want the traffic. Competing interests, I guess.
I am starting to think that quite a few people in south Walton really want to live in a gated community, yet they want to do so without the costs, thus proactive government code enforcement. More and more several of you are starting to come off as isolationists to me.
Perhaps some of the problems with the lookie-loos (I love that term, BTW, Scooterbug!) is that there is not another alternative to enjoy the architecture and atmosphere. Seaside is very architecturally significant. I used to work in an architecture library and we had many slides of not only Seaside's public and private structures, but town-planning, etc. I wonder if paid outdoor walking tours (appropriate and well-done) could provide an outlet? Some of the neighborhood associations could get involved, and it would help pay in some small way for upkeep? I have enjoyed tours like this in Houston and Savannah. It gives lookie-loos positive direction, and residents a positive way to promote their community. Just a thought...
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...uh oh....the condos are coming the condos are coming.
again...
That is where I see the problem - cars driving around v e r y s l o w l y looking at everything and clogging up the streets.
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