Beach Runner

I know from personal experience that it takes about 5 hours to attend one of those meetings, and that's excluding travel time for those meetings that are in Defuniak Springs.

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Tootsie

so, now is the perfect time to go to Seaside and enjoy the beautiful scenery and just walk around, etc. plenty of parking! and they do rely on us locals quite a bit during the offseason. I think Seaside has always known the importance of inclusion. heck, they are the only resort town I know of that offers recreation/pool & fitness to anyone who wants to pay for it. I'm thinking of joining up just to have pool access year round. also, I hope to have our little one in the Seaside Neighborhood School someday - which offers a variety of experiences within the community of Seaside and beyond.

Minnie

Quote:

Why not create an association (If there is not one) that represents the entire Sowal group and area. We elect these folks into office to represent just us. They are required to attend all city and county as well as state functions concerning our area. They go to county meetings with "OUR" agenda and present it and we count at the polls when its time. I am open on this just flashed through my head as I drove through Seaside this morning. What say you?

While this sounds like a great idea, I can guarantee you from years of experience with organizing groups of any kind, that if you have more than 2 people in this association you will have a disagreement on the agenda that represents the group. What is "ours" to one person is something entirely different to another. Good luck getting anyone to agree.

Something else to always remember, those against something are always very vocal, those that support something hardly ever make that known.

It think it would be wrong to think that the actions of this person represents a community such as Seaside.

Who is to say that this person even lives in Seaside. And even if they do, you are always going to have some that can't get outside of thier own personal agenda to welcome others in. That is their personal problem, not a representation of the entire community. For every one such person, you will find many others that are the opposite.

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"Whoever one is, and wherever one is, one is always in the wrong if one is rude." ~Maurice Baring

Beach Runner

We already have SWCC, and I have a lot of respect for Anita Page. Adding yet another organization would be redundant and diffuse our efforts IMO.

I'm with you, Toots. I enjoy Seaside. I don't go to the beach there because I have better beach access at our home. But I enjoy dining and shopping at Seaside.

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jpbhen

would it be possible to post the article from the seaside times that prompted this thread? would love to read it!!

we stayed in seaside for spring break, sometimes Christmas, sometimes summer vacation, for 10 years before building a house in seagrove. we watched the community grow throughout the 90s. we have also noticed a change in seaside of late - decidedly chilly! a real shame - it has always been a fun place in which to shop, eat and stroll. the developer and businesses might want to get a handle on it.

Tootsie

it's just a wonderful place to be. I can't say we do much dining there. but we do halloween and christmas parade, and lots of concerts, tons and tons of shopping, great coffee and groceries at Modica, Seaside Store has great tshirts, etc, ....

Food? well, no. would rather go anywhere else.

but, funn and friendly gathering place? yes!!! all the way!!!

if you ask me, we're fortunate to have a place like Seaside - it does not have to open up completely as it does to the community. no other resort community on 30A does this. unless they are having an event and trying to lure you there. however, Seaside is just there for you to come and enjoy. period.

I think the signs are nothing new, and maybe Susan didn't know this.

Beach Bimmer

If you've ever read up on The Walt Disney Company, especially "Disney Wars", you're familiar with how Michael Eisner and his minions tried to reduce long-term maintenance, enforce rules, and put up warning signs at Disney World and Disney land. Many negative actions developed under Eisner, leading the late Walt Disney's brother Roy to state that Eisner and crew had turned the Walt Disney Company into a "rapacious, soul-less" company.

Whether it's Town Council, SCDC, DSA or individual homeowner factions, the negatives in Seaside that have developed need to stop. Period. Fight over, let's kiss and make up, enjoy why we all came to this magical place.

Take down the negative signs and realize that saying "sure, enjoy this place" is much nicer than "no, you can't, because I said so".

We've been watching this thread with sadness, as it hurts when our beloved Seaside appears to have strayed from its open, welcoming mindset. However, Kurt snapped it all back into reality with the quote above.

Many of you on SoWal.com know us, and there are many more we know only through postings, but hope to meet someday. We own Fired Up Paint-Your-Own Pottery, a happy place where kids can be kids, families can spend time together, couples can celebrate weddings, anniversaries, babies, and more.

Our business has been in Seaside 12 years, and much has changed within Seaside in that time, some positive, some less than anticipated. However, I can tell you that Fired Up is finishing up its best year ever, and it is because kids don't read the signs, see the negatives, and comment on them in the same harmful way we adults do.

Kids just want to have fun. We have kids of our own, and we're thankful we've become one of those welcoming places in Seaside where kids can see and feel the fun as soon as they walk through our door.

This thread should ultimately be about ideas for bringing back the magic of Seaside in all areas, not creating more councils, meetings, and committees. If ever there were a time in Seaside's history where Robert Davis could step in and remind folks why Seaside should be about people, and kids, their dogs, and the beach, now would be a good time...

Please, bring your kids and come enjoy Seaside through their eyes. Roll in the grass, stroll through the shops, enjoy theatre and comedy at the Rep. Enjoy the magic within Seaside that Kurt reminds us of through our kids eyes.

Oh, and one last thing: Happy Holidays to you and your kids...enjoy Christmas through their eyes this year.

Smiling JOe

Most of the private signs at the pavilions were new this year, except for the one by the "dining pavilion" which was posted after Hurricane Dennis (I think) in 2004. The private marquees at each of the roads into seaside off of 30A were new as of this year. I disagree about Seaside opening its doors to the public. They really only open the stores and the ampitheater lawn to the public, and post signs everywhere else, noting that its private. Heck, even WaterColor doesn't have "private" signs posted on their parks, bridges, trails and beach access walkovers, and the roads are available for the pubic to drive or walk upon.

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LightWorker

Seaside is like a second home to me. I love to just walk around shop, eat, and meet friends. The Davis family had a dream and I believe it has grown even bigger than they ever imagined. Seaside has changed some and it will change some more. I think of many of the business owners as family. I love to stop in and catch up on my old friends.
I worked for B and B Resort and Josephine's Bed and Breakfast. I could tell you many stories about our local history but instead I just want to say Seaside is a beautiful place with people that will welcome you and if you choose to see anything else I guess you will.

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"I cannot tell you any spiritual truth that deep within you don't know already. All I can do is remind you of what you have forgotten" Eckhart Tolle

Paula

Hmmmm... Does this mean people who don't own at Seaside can pay to use the pool on a daily, weekly, monthly or yearly basis? Do you have more info on this, Tootsie (or anyone)? I'm assuming it's a heated pool?

Does Rosemary Beach offers non-owners the ability to pay to use their pool as well? Heated pool?

As for this conversation, I've enjoyed visiting Seaside for the past 5 years and I like it that I can participate in the good things offered by that community or avoid it - it's always my choice. I haven't tested their boundaries by using the boardwalks, beach, or walking through the neighborhoods (I did drive through them once) though I'd like to make walking through Seaside one of my regular walks when I get down there (but never seem to get myself there!).

I love this quote and it seems relevant:
"The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven." John Milton

For me, SoWal and the many beach communities, including Seaside, are a piece of heaven on earth.

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Paula

NotDeadYet

Those huge intimidating signs on the beach are most definitely new.

I know you can pay to join the Rosemary fitness center regardless of where you live. Not sure if membership includes the pool.

Tootsie

Paula: you can pay an annual fee to Seaside for pools and tennis courts. there is a pool they cover during winter and it is heated (spidey took swim lessons there one winter).

you can pay to use Rosemary Beach fitness center, and tennis facility. I don't know about pool.


Beach Bimmer - love love love your post.

SJ - maybe Seaside has new signs, but I do know they have always had signs at each entrance to the residential area stating that the roads were for residents and guests use only. those have been there forever. we always comment on them whenever we violate them - which has been about a million times.

beachmouse

And it does make sense to restrict vehicle traffic in residential areas since the roads seem so very narrow (more so than in Watercolor) and more than half the people who would drive in the area, owner or registered guest or no, seem to be driving a giant SUV.

If they've been yelling at people for just walking around north of 30-A, then that becomes another story.

Smiling JOe

You are correct about the private street signs on the posts, but I was specifically referring to the marquees which they added this year at the entrance to each street. The SWFD made them remove those, along with the other center posts, which prohibited firetrucks from entering the streets.

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Waiting For

From today's Walton Sun :

Seaside required to remove signs
December 21, 2007
By Sean Boone

The Seaside Town Council removed its middle-street signs last week due to accessibility issues. The community was told by the South Walton Fire District that they violated fire code and needed to be removed immediately.
The signs, which sat in the middle of each street corner adjacent to County Road 30A, made it very difficult for larger emergency vehicles to get around.
SWFD Life Safety Coordinator Kay Money said that the signs were against fire code and that the streets were just too small for them.
“We had a worker fall off a roof recently and we could not get to him because of the blocked access,” she said. “We had to remove two signs to get back there.”

and yesterday's NW Florida News:

Seaside removes signs that violated fire code
NW Florida Daily News
Thursday December 20th, 2007
The Seaside Town Council removed its middle-street signs last week due to accessibility issues. The community was told by the South Walton Fire District that they violated fire code and needed to be removed immediately.

The signs, which sat in the middle of each street corner adjacent to County Road 30A, made it very difficult for larger emergency vehicles to get around.

SWFD Life Safety Coordinator Kay Money said that the signs were against fire code and that the streets were just too small for them.

“We had a worker fall off a roof recently and we could not get to him because of the blocked access,” she said. “We had to remove two signs to get back there.”

montana

i think that the problem with Seaside as a whole is pretty much the same as WC. you have so many factions in place that are making up the town. take for instance the CRA rental agency that is run by who "interwest" from who know where and then each street in Seaside has it's own association and then you have the homeowners association as a whole. I know that last season the Tupalo association moved ahead on some things that would be construed as "un-inviting" based on their needs not Seasides. As far as comments concerning a group that would sit in on some of these meetings; it would be farfetched to me. the battles I hear about just between the renters and private homeowners seem down right bloody at times. then take into account people starting to spend more time in the private homes and renters paying top dollar to stay in other homes. you can go on and on. Kurt is right in so many ways about just for the kids. I walk Seaside and WC everyday, it would seem to me the only way is to get everyone to a discussion table and find tolerance but at the same time. who could get that started even in each of those communities themselves let alone Seagrove or other area's that touch these? I've heard the sides, i empathize with some of each argument. very hard stuff! I really think the Beach tide ruling is the answer to some of this. take it to a state/fed level and then see how some of this plays out.

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Deadeye Dick!

Smiling JOe

Montana, do you care to share the "Beach tide ruling" with us? I have no clue as to what you are talking about when you say that.

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montana

i'm refering to the arguments in the "led away in handcuffs" thread. Mean tide? Hight tide? wet sand/mean tide? what ever! just the fact that if you don't want people on your land right now is the time to speak up .....thus, all the signage. if the county/state/usa rules on that at some time then maybe it would stop all of the other signage? I'm of the thinking that it stems from that more than anything.

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Deadeye Dick!

Smiling JOe

Oh, I see. I was a bit confused by the new term. I agree that the signage was likely recently placed, at the request of Seaside's attorney to stop the public use which has been happening since Seaside began many years ago. Interestingly, I haven't seen any signs stating that the beach is private in Seaside -- only signs that the accesses in Seaside are private.

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NotDeadYet

Those new signs on the beach do not specifically state that the beach is private, but imho they imply it. Especially to someone from somewhere else who is not familiar with the whole private/public beach legal mess. My guess is that they have been recently placed because the new parking lot at the access between Seaside and WaterColor will be opening soon. They are intended to steer the riff raff to the west, away from Seaside's beaches, and they will probably work. I sat at the top of the walkover there recently and watched a few people approach the west end sign from WaterColor. It got their attention - most everyone stopped and stared at it for a while. Then some people turned back, and some others kept on going, but cautiously, if I am any judge of body language.

Beach House 25

Do you mind sharing your definition of Riff Raff ?
Interesting use of words IMO.

seacrestkristi

I will say the peeps at the toy store were very nice there in Xmas pasts. They even gift wrapped. Some of the stores are fuNN. They probably don't like the signs either.

Beach Bimmer

We don't like the signs either...

...and we own one of the stores in Seaside that tries every day to be FUNN!

Your Fired Up Friends

Buckhead Rick

Watercolor is currently addressing the "golf cart" issue, not trying to keep people out but for liaibility reasons we felt all carts should conform to Florida regs and be insured in case someone got run over. The Seaside sign seems to be just trying to do the same thing.

gardening1970

How about biking? In years past, my family has enjoyed bike rides through Seaside and Watercolor streets - not everyday - just once or twice during our week there to enjoy the architecture and beauty of the neighborhoods. We also stop for drinks and snacks and shopping. We do not use beach accesses, and we're always respectful, especially since we understand the roads and property belong to others. When we bike through in April and June this year, are we in danger of being told to leave?

Smiling JOe

Sounds like you already know that riding your bicycles on private streets is not permitted.

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Beach House 25

I heard through the Grapevine last night that the powers to be at Seaside decided after all this commotion about the privacy stuff there that as of January 15th they are closing off all access to the Seaside community and posting security guards at all entry points and have further added that they intend to wall off the community and put broken glass on top of the walls to prevent people from climbing over. 30-A will no longer be a thoroughfare and should any none resident or guest want to enter must pay for a daily pass. Now…. You heard it through the Grapevine….

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Coast is Clear

Gardening1970, as an owner in Seaside I would completely expect that you are welcome to ride your bike around Seaside and enjoy the town. It would truely be sad if we got to the point where that was not allowed.

From everything I have heard as an owner, the issue is not with visitors that enjoy the town, park cars correctly, and don't take advantage of the hospitality which Seaside has historically been know for.

There are clearly those visitors that step over the line and that might be why there has been a bit of a knee jerk reaction.

These are the realities we have to deal with:

-Parking is an issue and homeowners and guests of theirs should have priority to park next to their homes. Many visitors could care less about this common courtesy. New parking opening up may help this a bit.

-The bollards that were put on the eastern boarder of Seaside were there strictly to prevent construction cut through traffic that occurs during the busy months and boom times of last few years. Seaside streets are not designed for that kind of traffic especially with many small children on foot and on bikes. I also was told Fire Dept had been consulted before they went up.

-Numerous homes near Seaside, but not in Seaside, make it clear to their guests that they have full use of all Seaside facilites, when they don't pay one cent to repair, rebuild, insure, etc them. Some even claim they are in Seaside to make more rental income. Full wedding parties have come from outside Seaside to use the walkovers, without any permission. This is what has gotten things so out of hand.


I know there is a middle ground that should be achievable, but 10% of the inconsiderate visitors have made it difficult for all the owners as well as the 90% of visitors we welcome with open arms.

Just my 2 cents

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If you are lucky enough to be at the beach......
........you are lucky enough.

gardening1970

Thank you for your post Coast is Clear. You are a very gracious owner. I understand the dilemma, and like you, I hope a middle ground is achievable.

NoHall

I had no idea...I always assumed that I was contributing to the beauty of their streets by riding through. (*snort!*)

I was glad that Coast is Clear posted that we are invited, if not permitted.

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Beach House 25

Ok folks, I am now Mad as H@%$ and I ain't gonna take it no more! I say we all go to Publix and get our 100 Bag Lipton Tea and meet at the Bowl in Seaside and toss our Lipton Tea and have a Seaside Tea Party! Come on SJ this is right up your Access path LOL!

Seasides Future skyline!

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scooterbug44

People using things incorrectly is always an issue and there are always those oh-so-classy and polite folks who ruin it for everyone else. Big difference between addressing chronic problems and the mine, mine, mine mentality we keep hearing more and more of - and not just in Seaside.

I have no problem with security running off non-seaside guests people who claim a private beachside pavillion as their wedding reception location or adding to the HOA coffers by towing any inappropriately parked cars. Based on my personal observations, towing the cars parked in the delivery zone by Bud and Alley's and the 5 minute parking in front of the post office would reap $$$.

I've also never had any problems with Seaside's roads despite the signs that were recently removed, (helps that my vehicle isn't an overside SUV w/ a fully loaded rear rack) and on the occasions I've needed to have a semi or large vehicle use the road, I've just popped the sign out.

However, I have definitely seen an attitude shift in Seaside. I don't know if it is the new management company or a couple rotten apples, but it has definitely changed. There are still a lot of wonderful people and businesses there, but the mood is changing, and not for the better.

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

wrobert

I thought this was discussed previously, but I swear, people are becoming either more self-absorbed, or just plain rude. My father lives in a gated community in Sarasota and has said that it is getting worse there with people and the rules and the nitpicking.

Coast is Clear

Scooterbug44, you bring up a good point on changes at the management company which I definitely feel has not helped the situation. We do not use them for our rentals because there was clearly the feeling that they were in it for profit only and could care about little else. Kinda takes away that sense of community when going for the last buck is highest priority.

As a more general observation, having property values go up as much as they have has obviously narrowed the market as to the types of people that can afford homes along 30-A. I have always felt that getting that high a percentage of type A personalities in one area can't be a good thing. In Seaside I think it could be even worse.

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If you are lucky enough to be at the beach......
........you are lucky enough.

ozbeachmom

It is sad but true, our world is becoming a "me" society. It is all about one's self, numero uno. Screw everyone else, people are looking out for themselves only.
I hate to see this happen, but I don't believe that Seaside is the only area affected by this. Just my 2 cents!
I feel sorry for the people who have businesses there, they are the ones that are working hard and will be the ones hardest hit if people do not feel welcomed in the area.

Beach House 25

My wife and I visited the Seaside shops yesterday, We even went to Fired Up...Talk about that in a sec... But what we saw after reading all these post on this thread was a very warm and friendly community mixed with residents, guest, and even tourist with the local businesses open with lots of activity. I Love Seaside, I think the folks that are having issues most likely have had the "BAD" experience and have a nasty taste in their mouth. I much can't blame some for feeling the need to protect the place they as well Love and invested in. I say that a thread like this when read by "Outsiders" who are thinking about coming to our area, would probably think Seaside equals prudes and mean signage. Keep in mind in order for "Tourist to get to Seaside they must travel through other communities as well, so its not just a "Seaside Issue" it is a community issue. Just a little food for thought.

Now our Fired Up visit, These folks have it going! The wife and I will return and enjoy what they have to offer. The young lady was very nice and very informative! It was a wonderful experience! Hope others that read this at least stop by and see the beautiful things that they have to offer! and pricing is not that bad! Great job Fired Up! and staff!

Thank you Seaside.. Your beautiful and lovely!

Minnie

It is definitely not limited to any one specific area. If you travel anywhere you will see it. Just recently there was a major brawl at Disney between Pop Warner athletes and the parents. It got so bad Disney asked them to leave the resort property. I mean good grief when kids and their parents start a brawl and have to be removed, it is very sad.

But then in my opionion, our nation's leaders are all about themselves, why should the rest of the country be any different.

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"Whoever one is, and wherever one is, one is always in the wrong if one is rude." ~Maurice Baring

gib ycnan

If you stay off Tupelo you should be OK.
I walk through Seaside all the time and everyone is friendly, but I do avoid the gazebo on Tupelo.

Paula

Thanks, Toots. I'll be checking into short-term use of pools at Seaside/Rosemary Beach at some point - it would be nice to have access to a heated pool in the cooler months.

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Paula

SWGB

What's wrong with Tupelo? Is there an especially tough gang of owners in that area?

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Sandcastle

Yep! There are some nice people who own on Tupelo, but a couple of owners there stirred up this whole mess. Note that the offensive "sandwich" signs first appeared on Tupelo Street.

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Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.

SHELLY

Member of the Tupelo Street Gang flashing the "Sandwich Sign"





.

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But hey...Top Ramen tastes a whole lot better when you eat it off of a Granite Countertop. (Mr & Mrs Too Much Homebuyer)

Florida State Flower

Smiling JOe

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Cheering472

I find this whole situation very sad. Seaside was where we stayed for many years, even when we stayed somewhere else we visited there to shop and have dinner. I always felt welcomed in true southern hospitality. Exclusion wasn't part of the small town feeling we fell in love with.

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One tequila, two tequila, three tequila...floor.

NoHall

I was there a lot this past weekend. Nothing but nice everywhere I went...

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raven

that attitude has NOTHING to do with the constructs and concept of new urbanism. that is merely a local selfishness that is cultivated by narrow-minded developers.

real urbanism and NEW urbanism offers an architectural and planned answer to sharing space and the movement and behavior of people.

seaside as well as other local developments fight their plan and architecture by attempting to force different behavior using signs and, as we have heard here, aggressive behavior. these are antithetical to the philosophy and basic tenants of new urbanism.

raven

it's not that way everywhere, i promise. the minute you leave that area, you will see there are plenty of good, unselfish people in the world who think of their communities and neighbors first and understand the benefit of an open society. people who know how to balance their own concerns with the concerns of their neighbors and do the best for the area. it's sad, but go spend more than 6 months somewhere else and your optimism about the world will be renewed.

seacrestkristi

What's a 'sandwich' sign? I just got the red x.

Sandcastle

A “sandwich board” sign is a folding sign that’s typically placed on a sidewalk or street in front of a business establishment advertising a theatrical event, lunch special, etc. They first appeared on Tupelo Street in Seaside saying “Slow, Children at Play.” They quickly spread to other parts of Seaside and were staggered along the streets so cars had to swerve to avoid them. The intent was to discourage outsiders from using Seaside streets. Walton County recently declared they were a code violation and had them removed.

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Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.

Sandcastle

Hopefully, most of you have read Managing Editor Susan Vallee’s article (Welcome to Seaside – Or Not) in the Holiday Edition of The Seaside Times. She’s very opposed to the proliferation of signs in Seaside and the message they convey.

Susan wrote, “I’m curious to hear what homeowners and visitors to Seaside think of the signs that have been cropping up around town lately.” She is encouraging letters to the editor and she asks that they be sent to editor@seasidefl.com. I sent my letter yesterday and I hope that many others do the same.

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Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.