seacrestkristi

Not to even mention renourish it with pristine white sand specially imported from the Gulf of Mexico

seacrestkristi

I sent my e-mail to the commissioners yesterday asking for them to please vote public as the Gulf and south Walton beaches should be free to all for spiritual renewal to all who journey to her. Hope ya'll have a grayt meeting today. Wish I was there to help more. I bet that building will be bustin' at the seams. I am proud of you all and want to thank all of you who do go and fight for freedom of our beaches.
Thanks sowallers!!!

jdarg

Do you think we can save some seats in advance like we did for Mt. Film?

John R

scott was just laying out the sign asking people to wait until 7pm to save seats.

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jodiFL

Should I just go ahead and park at the school at 2:30, make the kids walk home and see if I can get in line then? *half-serious*

jdarg

No, make the kids sit there and save our seats. They could do their homework (if they had any!)

seacrestkristi

it!!! Wish I was there to hear ya'll. (and finally meet ya'll too) . Thanks everybody. Hubba and I will be rootin' ya'll on in spirit! Thanks ya'll for representin' . There is strength in numbers!

John R

help.

__________________
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jodiFL

I want to SEE that document. Until I actually see that document I wont believe it. I will be at this meeting and if you want to bring that document and protest the public/counties stand on this matter I am sure there will be more than a few people there that will be happy to examine it. I would also like to see the latest survey and the maps used by the surveyor to make sure they were the latest maps available.
FOR REAL! I I think I will have to bring up that fact at the meeting.

BeachBliss

Unfortunately I can not be at the meeting tonight. My husband is out of town earning money so we can afford to keep our property on the beach and I need to stay in town to take care of my 9 and 11 year old. But trust me, if he was in town, I would be down at that courthouse already, sitting in the front row. I have traveled 5 1/2 hrs. both ways twice before to attend County meetings. If you don't believe that people own property up to the Gulf of Mexico, I'm sure you can go to the public records office and they will help you understand.

Assuming from the comments made since my last entry, the majority of you are for public beach rights along 30-A. Consider why you feel so strongly towards this wonderful area and why you LIVE there -it's quiet, very little traffic, not many people. Great reasons!! Why don't you live in Destin or Panama City? Because it's crowded, lots of traffic-right?

Well guess what? Destin and Panama city use to be just like 30-A, BEFORE THEY MADE THE BEACHES PUBLIC!!!! Developers have stayed away from 30-A because the beaches are private. 30-A is the last horizon in the panhandle.

If the beaches go public, than they can develop all around 30-A. Once they get public beaches approved, the next thing will be eliminating the height restrictions (which will a PIECE OF CAKE next to the beach issue) and putting up 40 story high developments in your front and back yards.

The developers have you right where they want you-you are being sucked in by them.

Keep the beaches private, the developers will go away because they can't sell the property and we all have our pristine beaches back.

Some people like the crowds, the college kids at spring etc... Hey, I use to and I went to Panama City, Daytona, Ft. Lauderdale, Destin. I didn't want to go to some boring place like 30-A, there's no action there!! But now, we have a chance to preserve this quiet stretch of beach that we all love. Once it goes like Panama City and Destin, we can't get it back.

BeachBliss

Here is more food for thought- Consider why you feel so strongly towards this wonderful area and why you LIVE there -it's quiet, very little traffic, not many people. Great reasons!! Why don't you live in Destin or Panama City? Because it's crowded, lots of traffic-right?

Well guess what? Destin and Panama city use to be just like 30-A, BEFORE THEY MADE THE BEACHES PUBLIC!!!! Developers have stayed away from 30-A because the beaches are private. 30-A is the last horizon in the panhandle.

If the beaches go public, than they can develop all around 30-A. Once they get public beaches approved, the next thing will be eliminating the height restrictions (which will a PIECE OF CAKE next to the beach issue) and putting up 40 story high developments in your front and back yards.

Those of you who want the beaches to go public-the developers have you right where they want you-you are being sucked in by them.

Keep the beaches private, the developers will go away because they can't sell the property and we all have our pristine beaches back.

Some people like the crowds, the college kids at spring etc... Hey, I use to and I went to Panama City, Daytona, Ft. Lauderdale, Destin. I didn't want to go to some boring place like 30-A, there's no action there!! But now, we have a chance to preserve this quiet stretch of beach that we all love. Once it goes like Panama City and Destin, we can't get it back.

Miss Kitty

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The mind is like a parachute, it works best when it is open.

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

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"...never belonged to you in the first place."
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Just like the land you live on? I assume you or your landlord "own" this land.
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What about the land the American Indian lived on? (Since you want to get spiritual here). They never owned ANY of it. They shared it. Yet they are gone. What happened there? Did they lose their land because they did not believe in the same God you do?
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Ms. SeacrestK, you have succeeded in forcing me to abandon all hope of helping you see the light that you so appropriately "try" to hold in your hand above.

Uncle Timmy

In my experience, Slippery Slope arguments tend to be the favorite fallback response when the original argument is too weak.

You are trying to suggest that if we re-affirm the public’s right to beach access then what? –we will have high rise condos and SoWal will be Panama City West?

Public access to the beach is in no way linked to the 50’ building height restriction.

Furthermore; Developers are buying inland sites and advertising access to PUBLIC (OR PRIVATE) BEACH ACCESSES. I don’t recall ever seeing any developer care whatsoever about what people did once they get to their beach access.

This issue is not a place for scare tactics.

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Brilliant minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Weak minds discuss people.

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

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GREAT POST!!!! and right on the "money"!!!!
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People, this is it in a nutshell. You can't fight your enemy unless you understand who your true enemy is.

scooterbug44

Development and its subsequent density ARE part of the issue (mainly because no one wants to share the swing set now that there are more kids on the playground), but we aren't advocating tearing down fences and gates so bikini clad masses can charge the dunes - we are just wanting people to be able to use the beaches as they have for YEARS.

Many of the people who want the beaches to be officially declared public are the same ones who are opposed to dense developments and any change or leeway in the height restrictions.

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

seacrestkristi

Thank you, Uncle Timmy! Where you been?

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

I don't quite understand why you disbelieve this. If it were not so, there would not be all this turmoil. What part do you believe is not true?

Regarding surveys, the private beach property line changes on a daily basis based on the amount and elevation of sand at that moment in time. That's why they use the "wet sand" as an approximation especially during the summer when the tides are at their highest.

This is trivial stuff compared to the big picture, though.

BeachSiO2 gave me a lesson on this a while back.

seacrestkristi

You mean about the turtles

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BeachBliss

I'm not trying to scare anyone-I'm just stating facts!!!

jodiFL

And just how long have you been a full time Florida resident?

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

You are practically hitting the nail on the head without knowing it.

IF the beaches become "OFFICIALLY" public via all good intentions from you and your peers, the REAL problems for our area start then.

Let us assume the county got passed the millions of dollars of litigation that would certainly follow the taking of private property. Remember, it must be decided on a case by case basis per the Florida Attorney General.

How would they fund their empty coffers?

"Hey, I know! Let's allow high rises and collect taxes and help our buds while we're at it! Getting rid of those height restrictions will be a walk in the park compared to taking private property."

Open the window and the light shine in.

scooterbug44

I'm more than willing to let the speedy (sarcasm alert) wheels of justice decide case by case challenges to the beaches being declared public...........as long as they remain public while it's being decided.

And we can certainly get creative by making the property owner responsible for the court fees & expenses incurred by their challenge, so we won't need to finance your hissy fit with high-rises!

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

Uncle Timmy

Dumb argument (scare tactic).

If the county racked up millions of dollars in litigation fees, so would the property owners.

BMBV….you will inevitably follow the path of least resistance and pain –grudgingly acknowledging the public’s continued access to the beach and opting not to spend millions (apparently) to fight a losing battle.

………….your only hope is to keep trying to wip up some sort of fear in people that public access to the beach will somehow result in 40 story condos, massive overdevelopment and the eventual destruction of SoWal.

Not buying into the scare tactic. Sorry.

__________________
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JustaLocal

You know when I moved here few roads were paved, no cable was available, no sewer, and not too many people lived here. No problems with crowds or traffic. Nobody ever asked me to get off the beach. By your reasoning we need to get rid of paving, cable, and sewer.

jodiFL

Maam I dont think that you fully understand exactly what is being fought for here regarding the public/private thing. We are not trying to take your property away from you. But with all the development the accesses for the residents that dont live on the beach are approximately 12' wide. They are made to park and walk a long way to get to one of these accesses and then have no where to go but either to the left or right of that small strip but when "Private owners" tell them they cant go past a certain point when they get there it is not customary use of that beach we all claim as ours. As was said before, the county cleans that beach so its not like they are going to trash the beach, if they do our tax dollars pay to clean it. They arent going to come up your walkover and park it on your deck, they are going to stay at the waters edge.But I personally dont like to put my blanket or chair IN THE WATER.

momof2kids

there are public beaches in Destin & PC?? I thought there were just shopping centers & restaurants... go figure!

jodiFL

there werent even WALKOVERS when I moved to SOWAL.

jodiFL

Me either..since there is not enough gulf front property left in SOWAL to accomodate the parking required for a hirise.

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

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That concept is where I have a real problem.

If "someone" uses your property over and over, they feel entitled to it. There is some law here in Georgia that if you've driven a path over private property everyday for x number of years unimpeded, you basically get an easement. I can see that. It is one individual usually trying to get to their property that may be landlocked (public road wise), etc.

But the difference between the above and the beach situation, in my opinion only, is that we're NOT talking about an individual. We're talking about the public. I'm no lawyer, but I believe the legal rights afforded to the "public" are not the same as the rights afforded to an individual or other LEGAL entity. I believe this is the only reason why Walton County, a legal entity, can drive on the beach through our property. They have done it for x number of years without oppsosition.

So what defines the public as using the beach for X years? Joe Blow showed up in 1987 and Jane Doe showed up in 1994? I hope you see my point. I believe this is exactly why the attorney general said it would have to be decided on a case by case basis.

What is your opinion on the definition of "the public has used the beach for years"?

scooterbug44

You just put parking under the building ................seriously though, this is the same scary building they won't be able to get approved, get financing for, or sell off the units in the current inventory heavy market!!!

The issue is people being able to use the beach! Go to the meeting and if you can't, email or call the county commissioners. The voices they are hearing are those of the property owners, so you have to let them hear from YOU!

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"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

scooterbug44

My opinion is that if you spent 1/10 of the amount of time enjoying the beach as you do trying to prevent others from using it, your continued use would guarantee you towel/chair space and a view of the sunset!

How exactly is the hideous "public" hurting you by going to the beach?

__________________
"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

jodiFL

This was my response in another thread as to what I am fighting for here

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Please, don't appologize.

If you can't see what has ALREADY happened up and down 30A when several of the beaches are private (as declared by Walton TDC), then my friend you are just blind if you think that red blooded American (or foreign for that matter) captialists won't take full advantage of this newly opened door called "public" beaches.


Remember, a blind person won't show any fear when he is about to get run over by a truck.


Regarding your warm and fuzzy comment, "...you will inevitably follow the path of least resistance and pain –grudgingly acknowledging the public’s continued access to the beach and opting not to spend millions (apparently) to fight a losing battle."

Do you think Seaside and Rosemary Beach and Water Color and on and on are going to open their already crowded private beaches to the public? Do you think they'll agree with you against the hundreds and hundreds of their association members? This time I'll let them fight the first battle with the county. You're right, I'm broke. They have much deeper pockets than I do.
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Oh...
Guys and gals, don't take any of this private vs. public stuff personally. It is a hot button and you'll usually side with whatever side of the railroad tracks you're on. Problem is one day, you'll be on the "other" side on some issue. I've just tried to point out that things are not always black and white.

Of course we all know things definitely won't get resolved on this board so please continue to send happy faces with bouncing hearts to each other.
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NotDeadYet

This is just backwards. The "making public" of the beaches in Destin, which is only a 20ft compromise anyway, came after overdevelopment put so many people on the beaches. People staying in the highrises that were already built.
Or maybe you mean the Destin renourishment which only "made public" the renourished part of the beach that taxpayers paid for.
This cause and effect idea that you have is just bizarre. Never ceases to amaze me what people will believe in an effort to justify their screwy opinions.

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

ScooterBug, with over 1900 posts since May of 2007, it would seem to me that you spend all your time in front of the computer chatting on SoWal. I know it can be addictive !!! Do you ever get a chance to go the beach?

Soooo lets play pretend... if I bring my friends and family, 3 mobile coolers, 2 @ 10 foot square shade tents, play my radio, toss a little trash here and there, allow my little toddler run up and down your garden, grill some hot dogs on my hibachi, etc.....

and do this in your front yard, that you truly still don't see the "hurting" as you put it?

You want something for nothing, and then you dodge a hard core question regarding what constitutes continued public use. I won't give up my property on anyone's whim. Nor would I expect you or anyone else to do the same.

Uncle Timmy

2 can play this game:

If we allow a handful of specific property owners to assert that their property rights trump historical precedent and the common welfare of the majority of the county, then what is to stop property owners/developers from challenging SoWal's restrictive (relative to Panama City) zoning and Building Codes?

Isn’t it arguable that if beachfront property owners assert an exclusive control of their land to the water’s edge than it should be their right to build all the way to the water’s edge? Or as high as they want. It is their property afterall. If the county tells you that you can’t build over 50’ then haven’t they in effect seized control of your property from 50’ and above?

We allow Private Beaches, then we will have 40 story Condos right at the water’s edge all along SoWal's shoreline.

Scare tactic seen, acknowledged……and bettered.

__________________
Brilliant minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Weak minds discuss people.

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

And one more time, I'll ask a question that we all know the answer to....

Has anyone been stopped from going to any of the truly public beaches that exist in Walton County?

"NO you IDIOT!!!...WHAT's YOUR POINT????", I think heard someone say to me.

There are beaches and accesses currently available. It's just everyone off the beach simply wants more.

The letter generated by SWCC just made me shake my head in disgust. No, they wouldn't be happy with the "resolution" that Destin has now regarding the 20 foot distance. SWCC wants the WHOLE damn thing!!! Pretty obvious attempt of trying to set the stakes high and "settling" for the 20 foot thing. Guess what, as Uncle Timmy says, I'm not buying that.

seacrestkristi

Yeah, what Uncle Timmy said! Are you going to be at the meeting, Uncle Timmy?

scooterbug44

Nope, feel free to use my yard! You can even use my grill if you bring your own charcoal & lighter fluid. I'll be down at the beach doing therapy for my Sowal addiction .

Seriously, find a spot in my yard that has a 1-2 story drop from the rest of the yard, is accessible by walkways built by the county, is patrolled for safety hazards, is periodically swept away by tropical storms and hurricanes, and has daily trash pickup (fresh bags provided daily too) and I'll buy your beer and provide daycare for the toddler!

__________________
"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg

Uncle Timmy

The most honest point made on the "Private" side of this debate yet.

Let's just cut thru all the scare tactics and keep the discussion honest. You got your slice of the pie and would rather not share it. While I may not agree with your position, I can understand it.

Let's leave all this silliness about 40 story condos and the ruin of south Walton out of it.

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Brilliant minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Weak minds discuss people.

jdarg

Bump- let's keep this at the top. This issue is on the agenda at 4:40.

kurt

I merged the two threads.

seacrestkristi

We were gettin' dizzy!

InletBchDweller

I thought I had run off the deep end- of a public beach!!!

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BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Bettered? Don't think so.

We can't build to the waterline for the same reason you can't build up to the right of way. It's called setbacks. And that is not the issue.

I don't want to build the waterline anyway. I wish we were about 100 feet northward.

To address your main point, you have missed it all together. What stops a developer from taking the old Nick's restaurant location and building a 25 story building?
1. Current building height restrictions
2. Private beach which limits "legal" use of the beach and thus marketing potential - the key to this thread!!!

If the county and state eliminates 2, then again 1 is just a relatively simple matter compared to 2.

Keep in mind that this highrise would be a hell of a lot more desirable as most of the units would have a good to GREAT gulf view....a lot better than Redfish Village.

If you can spare us the words such as "dumb" and "silliness" maybe this dialog would elevate where it should be. Just a thought.

Also it does not have to be a 40 story condo. Several 10 or 20 story condos would fit the bill north of 30A.

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

You're right. I worked long and hard, put myself through college, started a business, made mostly good decisions and then bought my apple pie (my dream of ownership at the beach - no different than that stock company commercial). Now you think you're entitled to my only apple pie just because you want it????

Geeeeze.

John R

I'm thinking historical use is "as long as people have been going to the beach". Long before any of the BMB crew bought and built.

do people actually climb up and use your grill?? that's ballsy.

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jodiFL

The TDC (Tourist Development Council) has ABSOLUTELY no authority to declare anything public or private.

scooterbug44

Everybody should be getting ready to GO TO THE MEETING!!!

Our beaches should say

NOT

"get off my sand" !

__________________
"I hate to break it to you, but this year (and probably the next few) was going to suck even if Jesus himself was president. These problems were not created overnight and they aren't going away overnight." -Jdarg