CAUTION, THIS INFORMATION WILL HURT YOUR HEART, GRAPHIC HEARTLESS TREATMENT OF ANIMALS .....the next time you browse through the meat sections of your favorite grocery how can you not think about these videos,,,,,,
there is really something wrong with the HUGE DISCONNECT people have in terms of where and how their food products are being made available to them.

http://www.chooseveg.com/kosher-slaughter.asp

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

OM!! This is so horrible! I think everyone knows in their mind this goes on but to see it paints a disturbing picture.

Dad's a butcher...

I wish that we could get away from the "slaughterhouse" methods, but as long as the people who eat the meat are not the ones raising, killing, and processing it we have to rely on people who take care of the nasty part en masse... I don't have room on my 1.07 acres to raise a bull, kill it, and process the meat.

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I understand,no one has the ability to raise their own meat but the "slaughterhouse" methods
need to change. there is just no reason for such horrible brutal treatment of animals. This is part of the disconnect,,,,,not many people know about these barbaric processing methods.

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

Exactly!,,,,,no one really knows, its part of the huge disconnect. as a consumer you are participating in this brutality if you don't object,,,,stop eating meat until this horrible treatment ends.

I wonder how anyone can eat a burger or steak without remembering those animal screaming in pain, and the terror and fear they felt at the end.
Seems I read something about how the terror an animal feels at the moment of its death transfered into the very meat tissues and organs that we eat and we are spiritually absorbing this.

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

There are many studies and beliefs about this very thing. Let's not forget the anger that an animal has and the transfer of that to our bodies. There is so much Science is finding out about the transference of feelings into the body that is passed along in many ways.

I've found in my own life and the way I was brought up that it is easier to stick my head in a hole then to take responsibility for myself. We have many choices. I started by not eating meat one day a week and the more mindful I am about it the less I desire meat.

Just a thought. Kat

I've not eaten veal in over 20 years, ever since I discovered how veal is raised.
I no longer buy red meat unless it's grass fed organic, which due to its cost means we don't eat much red meat. Fresh Market sometimes has great deals. Yes, I do know how chickens are processed, but one step at a time. One night a week, we eat vegetarian. A good book to ease you into a healthier lifestyle is Quantum Wellness by Kathy Freston. I'm not sure I could go vegan, but semi-vegetarian is doable. And the added benefit is that this sort of diet is far better for you.

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If facts are the seeds that later produce knowledge and wisdom, then the emotions and the impressions of the senses are the fertile soil in which the seeds must grow.-Rachel Carson

I am absolutely a carnivore, but that video was way over the top. I can say that I just took kosher meat off the list, although I have never eaten it either.

I have a brother that once worked in a regular meat packing plant in MN and he told me of their process which was meant to kill the cattle instantly before they ever began any processing.

It is unfortunate that whatever processing plant you can find, you will probably always find someone working that needs a lot of work on their conscience.

I have no interest in becoming a vegetarian, so please don't ruin civil conversation.

I am a hardcore believer in that whatever you need to eat must be dealt with as quickly and painlessly as possible. I am not going to deny that things must die that I might live. Science is likely to discover some day that carrots feel pain as well while their roots are being ripped out of the ground. What are vegetarians going to do then?
I'm just not going down that road. I am committed to doing things as humanely as I can. Hate me if you must but this coin has two sides.

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Anthony

I don't think this video demonstrates that you shouldn't eat meat, but that you should know where ALL of your food comes from and how it was processed.

Not every meat processor is like this, which is why it is good to educate yourself and vote with your pocketbook!

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The enemy is ignorance.

Thank you!,,,,,my point exactly! and the other most important point is WHY DO THE MEAT PROCESSORS HAVE TO DO IT IN THIS MANNER! again if people would give more thought as to the where-what-and why's of the food they mindlessly pull off their local grocery store shelves it could make a difference.

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

Someone help me. I am not jewish and do not understand how they eat food, but it's all prepared different for some reason. I got the impression from the video that they were attempting to bleed out the cow or something.

That was tough to watch. If you are the squeemish type, don't go look. It's as bad as it sounds and then some.

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Anthony

I couldn't finish watching video... I'm glad I have a vegetable garden!!!!!

Bleeding it out is not a Kosher thing. Most animals are slaughtered by bleeding them out. It's actually the most humane way to handle it--when the animal bleeds to death it passes out painlessly. When Dad and Mom first got married, he worked in a poultry kill plant. They hang the chickens by the feet and slit their throats...you don't want an animal full of blood...

(I didn't watch the video, T.Cline--I've seen/heard about the process and don't need another lesson.)

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I love you guys. I knew in my heart there was a reason I had cut back on red meat but couldn't remember what it was; other than the obvious. I'm an "earth centered sprititualist" and the transference of energy is big to me. Reading these comments just now was a big "DUH" moment for me.

For the most part, not for the sake of the animals, but for the sake of my own health and survival, I had become near vegetarian, eating the occassional white meats such as fish or chicken.

Lately I've tried to go all vegetarian and nearly killed myself when I bloated up like a nine month pregnant woman about to burst. Only a week and a half into it I thought I was going to die. A fellow vege-head laughed at me and told me I had gas. I've since discovered Gas-X and Beano!

I'm also down 16 lbs since January 1st! From 189 to 173 and shooting for 165 by January 1st 2009. My cholesterol and triglycerides have dropped from the ultra dangerous level to 'still to be concerned about but much better'. I've gone from a size 36 to a 34 and wish to be a 32 and that's fine.

I've always said that a Vegan is a Vegetarian with issues.

Cabbage screams as you cut through it. I swear. Its what the voices in my head have told me to listen for.

I believe in the circle of life. Do you think when a lion or tiger tears into a zebra or antelope that the victim/food does not feel fear, agony and pain? Or do they slip into a zen mode and think "This is my lot in life, so that this creature may live another day", and pass peacefully into the next realm...

There's a couple of reasons for (this coming from an atheist) to pray before eating. Do not (just) thank (insert higher power of choice here) for the food you are about to eat, but thank the food that you are about to eat for giving up its life energy to sustain your own. It will help ease your conscience.

More importantly, it gives your a body a chance to catch a breather before you start wolfing down that food, which is ultimately better for your digestive system.

I did not/will not watch the video as I'm sure I already know what is it and do not need that upsetting energy in my brain/body at this time.

And like Scooty said, I "vote" with my wallet.

OK enuff preaching for today. Now to get back to what really matters in life.

The Phillies are now 5-0 over the Brewers in the 3rd inning.
Bucs will challenge the Broncos at 3:15 CST and the Sunday night game is my homeboys the STEELERS vs that team down the street, the Jags.

Sports is life. Now someone get me a beer and a hotdog.

Just kidding. I'm eating spinach and broc nuggets from MorningStar Farms, and collards from my own garden.

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I had a really tough time watching. I eat meat regularly- chicken and turkey daily and beef on the weekends. I am unlikely to discontinue this practice anytime soon but I just can't understand why pain and suffering need to be part of the equation in this day in age. It is senseless to me and it is wrong. Is there something practical that can be done?

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This thread is making me hungry.

Agriprocessors seeks bankruptcy protection

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"Eloquence is the essential thing in a speech, not information." - Mark Twain
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that video is repulsive. i literally feel sick.

I used to eat meat but ever since I saw the videos of the different slaughterhouse facilities I just cant,,,,tried to eat a little chicken last night,,,,and I swear,,,I could feel the animals pain!........it tasted TERRIBLE! ...I know I know, sounds a little crazy, huh?

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

I am gong to resurrect this older thread, I'd love to know if anybody has made anymore changes and hear your thoughts on this subject.

I am a supporter of Vegan Outreach and they have leaflets (that I have helped distribute) entitled "Even If You Eat Meat". The leaflets are designed to encourage people to not only think about where their meat comes from, but to realize that every time they DON'T eat meat they are making a statement and saving animals from being abused due to lesser demand. I think realistically speaking most people will not give up all animal products 100% of the time, and I don't think it is necessary unless one chooses to do so and then that's great too!

I was totally vegan for years - even went 100% raw vegan for a while - amazing journey. Now, I am vegan, mostly raw at home and often times when I am out. On our last trip to SoWal I ate fish and some dairy. Not something my body was used to. I wanted it so I ate some. No biggie. I prefer to eat the way I am physically and emotionally comfortable with (mostly raw vegan) on a regular basis and if I am in a social situation and really want some fish I will. At least with fish they are swimming up to the point where they are caught. But of course there are some fishing and shrimping methods that are used (nets) where soooooooooo many innocent other sea creatures are killed in the process. If we demand less meat, and fish, then animals can be raised and fished more humanely. Chickens and pigs have the most abuse. I will never eat them or beef again. I don't like the texture in my mouth and I have no need to eat them to be healthy.

The best book I ever read (cause I hear "Where do you get your protein?" all the time) is The China Study by Professor Emeritus, Dr T. Colin Campbell at Cornell University. Also, anything by John Robbins.

One more thing - I turned 50 last Halloween and I did my first triathlon at 49 having only been running and cycling a VERY short time. My energy level is amazing and I never have to worry about my weight - even though I come from a family with obesity issues and diabetes etc....

So I have a strong passion for this right? You bet! I love to see people becoming aware that what we eat matters to us and to our environment. In fact, there is a splendid article entitled "Vegetarianism Is The New Prius" that just puts one more spoke in the wheel for me.

Here it is - I often quote from it.

Kathy Freston: Vegetarian is the New Prius

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts on this. I'd love to hear what others say and I am by no means judgmental about others eating meat. I just like to see people become aware and perhaps that makes us think about different choices once in a while at least.

G

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Question - If you buy organic meat from Publix - where does this come from? Still the same slaughterhouses? Still corn fed beef? Off to see if I can find it on Google.

I just started reading In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan & look forward to seeing his documentary if it ever comes to the panhandle:

thanks so much Gidget for adding your thoughts to this thread!
its not just about animal cruelty anymore....according to the article you posted

Animal agriculture accounts for most of the water consumed in this country, emits two-thirds of the world's acid-rain-causing ammonia, and it the world's largest source of water pollution--killing entire river and marine ecosystems, destroying coral reefs, and of course, making people sick. Try to imagine the prodigious volumes of manure churned out by modern American farms: 5 million tons a day, more than a hundred times that of the human population, and far more than our land can possibly absorb. The acres and acres of cesspools stretching over much of our countryside, polluting the air and contaminating our water, make the Exxon Valdez oil spill look minor in comparison. All of which we can fix surprisingly easily, just by putting down our chicken wings and reaching for a veggie burger.

you might be interested in a small group of friendly locals just now organizing in a new group I started called the Vegetarian Experiment. its about.... ....INFORMAL & FUN group to share and assist in the transitioning of preparing more MEATLESS meals,,,,it's a global ecologically sensible thing to do!
this info is on a FaceBook page where people can share the info. I would like to post something about it here on Sowal but not sure how to format it.

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

As a summer job when in college, hubby worked beef-kill at Oscar Mayer in Madison. The stories he tells makes one think twice about eating meat.

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Not just spiritually -- eating brutally raised and slaughtered meat means ingesting the stress/fear hormones as well.

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

T.Cline, while I applaud your concerns about the slaughter process, I do have a question about how we fix the pollution aspect by all of a sudden having the world become vegetarian? What happens with all of the animals that are associated with the pollution? They won't magically disappear? Should we slaughter them? And just how? What about all of the carcasses, what do we do with them? Not trying to be synical, but I've never heard anyone answer these questions.

To the others who are now becoming vegan because of the inhumane treatment of the animals. Several of you are in the restaurant business either by owning/operating or employment. So are you going to cease service of meat/fish ? Are you going to quit supporting/working at the restaurants that continue to serve meat/fish that possibly were inhumanely slaughtered?

Are you going to quit wearing products made of leather? Do you realize that they slaughter those animals in similar manners.

Please understand that I fully support humane means of killing animals and absolutely despise torture. But, if you are going to be extreme in your beliefs, then you should do it fully and not just to make your conscience feel better.

I seriously doubt that the world will quit eating meat. Stating that, there are several ligitimate groups that are working very hard in trying to change slaughter processes and animal agriculture waste pollution. I would encourage all to support them in their cause.

Sorry, still having me a rare ribeye for dinner.

I've toured a meat packing plant, I've helped cut up dinner, and I've grown up with past meals looking at me from walls, as mittens, or as rugs and throws and it still tastes good!

IMO portion control and curbing the waste of water on landscaping would go much further to promote the health of both us and our planet than trying to make me eat a veggie burger (those things actually make me ill BTW).

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The enemy is ignorance.

I'm glad we're exploring this here. I've sought answers to these questions and issues for years, and one thing I can tell you is there's no simple answer, no magic bullet. Personal choices make a difference, and markets work at least some of the time in appropriate, if not always rapid response to changing demands from customers.

I believe a huge part of the problem with industrial ag (meat, veggies, fruits, milk, whatever) is the scale of it is unsustainable. I think ag needs to be scaled back down to family farm size, and made more local, seasonal, etc. -- for accountability, fuel savings, on and on, I better not get started on that right now.

Here's a shining example of thriving, way beyond sustainable, humane, organic, high-yield-per-acre-while-improving-not-depeting-the-earth agriculture on a 100- acre farm. It's a form of permaculture. Michael Pollan describes a working week he spent at this place in one of his books -- Omnivore's Dilemma, I think. An excellent read, if this thread captures your interest. The sustainable organic farm--

Polyface, Inc.

On an even smaller scale, super productive mini-farming at a suburban homestead:

Path to Freedom

Lots of youtubes and other websites springing up like weeds about micro-farming. I think this trend has legs.

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

I think smaller scale is definitely the way to go - you get a better product. The problem is making the $ work.

Natural meat is also a good source. My father and his buddies provide 10-15% of their household's meat between their deer, elk, turkey, and pheasant hunting.

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The enemy is ignorance.

I'm pretty sure Joel Salatin (Polyface Farms) and Julian Dervaes (Path to Freedom) are making the $$ work at small scale. So are the hundreds (thousands?) of CSAs and farmers' markets springing up all over the country. So are SPIN farmers all over the planet. It can be done, it is being done, it just needs to be done more. I bought a solar cooker and some garden tools from Path to Freedom b/c I wanted to support what they're doing. I love the solar cooker, and hope to train my sons and Hub to use the tools :-)

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

Hi there - I know this was addressed to T.Cline, but I thought I would put in my 2 cents because your questions are very valid and interesting!

You: T.Cline, while I applaud your concerns about the slaughter process, I do have a question about how we fix the pollution aspect by all of a sudden having the world become vegetarian?

I don't think the world has to become vegetarian or vegan I should say. I think if people ate less animal products and raised animals locally (as was mentioned in another post) then animals wouldn't have to be raised in such inhumane conditions and we wouldn't have to raise as many. If folks just cut back - it is good for the animals, the Earth and it is quite good to get in more veggies and fruits


What happens with all of the animals that are associated with the pollution? They won't magically disappear? Should we slaughter them? And just how? What about all of the carcasses, what do we do with them? Not trying to be synical, but I've never heard anyone answer these questions.

I don't think the world would just POOF stop eating meat the same day and have all the animals to deal with. I think that gradually, animal consumption from factory farming would decline if people made vegan choices on occasion. I know people who HAVE to have animal products in every meal - it just isn't necessary - and we, as humans can think past ourselves. So, in answer to the question, there just wouldn't all of a sudden be a s**t load of cows standing around and no one to eat them.

To the others who are now becoming vegan because of the inhumane treatment of the animals. Several of you are in the restaurant business either by owning/operating or employment. So are you going to cease service of meat/fish ?

Some people take this very seriously and would actually consider changing their jobs - but others understand that people have choices and maybe, like me, don't eat animals at all at home, but once in a while like to frequent a place that serves up a plate of veggies and a piece of fish.

Are you going to quit supporting/working at the restaurants that continue to serve meat/fish that possibly were inhumanely slaughtered?

Some people would make that choice, but most people go for the middle ground. I really think that reason this thread was started was to have people question if there is a better way to raise animals. And cutting back is one way - I don't think anyone really suggested that everyone give up all animals. I've read so much about nutrition over the years. There aren't really any cultures that are 100% vegan 100% of the time. It doesn't have to be all or none - now for some, it is a personal choice to be 100% vegan, but I don't think that is what is being suggested.

Are you going to quit wearing products made of leather? Do you realize that they slaughter those animals in similar manners.

I make it a point to consider all of my purchases. I think about children sweating over Nike shoes, etc... too. We should all consider where all of our products come from. Not just the animal aspect.

Please understand that I fully support humane means of killing animals and absolutely despise torture. But, if you are going to be extreme in your beliefs, then you should do it fully and not just to make your conscience feel better.

That's great - I think you got the point entirely, Just looking for ways to make things better for the animals and if it helps the Earth then bonus time!

I seriously doubt that the world will quit eating meat. Stating that, there are several ligitimate groups that are working very hard in trying to change slaughter processes and animal agriculture waste pollution. I would encourage all to support them in their cause.

You are 100% correct and buying products from organic farms is a wonderful way. Getting eggs out the backyard or from a local farm. Fishing without nets, and having a veggie lunch are all great ways.

BTW, I think these were excellent questions and I hope you don't mind my 2 cents even though this wasn't directed to me personally.

G

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EXACTLY!!! It can be done! And the more discussions like this are going on then the more people will demand and support it. It isn't the death aspect of carnivore/vegan issue to me as much as THE HUMANE TREATMENT of alllll creatures. And also, not to waste. Local is best!

Dang it I sold my solar cooker when I was on my RAW kick lol Now I misses it

It is WAY SUPER COOL isn't it!!!

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Scooterbug

I am not a huge fan of veggie burgers either btw! I am not a huge fan of feaux meats and cheeses. I prefer very simple meals of veggies and fruits instead of making soy seem like meat. BUT they have their place.

I think you having a rib eye is fine! But if you had the choice between 2 equally priced rib-eyes - one was from a typical factory farm in CA and the other was local grass fed beef slaughtered more humanely and raised w/out antibiotics, etc... you'd go for the latter I am sure!

Now, go have your steak lol!

G

I vow not to get dogmatic about this. This is purely brainstorming and sharing on ways to have a better world for all. Very simple don't you think?

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If the price were equal, obviously I would choose the one w/ fewer chemicals that was better for the environment, but until we can find a way to get the prices closer most people are going to chose the better bargain.

I've got a conscience and preferences about how my food is raised, but I've also only got "x" dollars to spend to feed my household - like the rest of America. Toni's and other farmer's markets work w/ my budget and conscience, but I've yet to see it happen in the grocery chains and IMO that's where we need it to make the biggest impact.

I'll have a side of home grown veggies w/ the steak, but I'm not going to give up my meat - I'm a carnivore!

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The enemy is ignorance.

sorry I just got back to this conversation....darn work gets in the way sometimes!!
well thank you Gidget and Susan, both of your responses totally conveyed were I am on these issues.
Being aware of where our food comes from and how its being raised along with being aware the consumer is in control and can make changes to the systems in place by making a choice about where they spend their $$.

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

Ha ha, truth be told, I have THREE solar cookers and one thermal cooker (commercially manufactured version of haybox cooking). I love them all, and have just bought a solar dehydrator/sprouter as well. Will try to remember to post on how well that works here.

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

[quote=scooterbug44;574173]If the price were equal, obviously I would choose the one w/ fewer chemicals that was better for the environment, but until we can find a way to get the prices closer most people are going to chose the better bargain.


Scooterbug, glad you brought that up. I recently finished reading Paul Hawken's Natural Capitalism, in which he explains how the price we pay for mainstream goods and services does not show the true cost. We are actually paying more in true cost for factory farmed foods than for organic/local, but a lot of the true cost of factory farmed food is hidden in subsidies and "externalities". There's a lot of really smart folks out there working to update our accounting methods to reflect true costs -- of course, this becomes a policy issue as well, involving the outrageous power of huge corporations to instruct gov't on how to write economic and trade policies, and it's so complex that my liberal-arts-major brain is already shorting out just trying to explain the highlights.

Anyone whose read this book and speaks economist-ese, please feel free to step in and flesh this out.

For now, for Joe and Jane Eater (that would be all of us, yes?), the reality on the ground is we shell out more bucks at the checkout for organic/local/free range than for chemical-laden tortured animal products, and I too debate with myself all the time whether to pay extra for the good stuff, pay less for the junk, or skip the meat altogether. Especially since I know that some of the stuff labeled organic is not necessarily humanely raised and slaughtered, and the chickens laying "free range" eggs may never have seen the sunshine or a live bug in grass. Besides, most of the organic produce in grocery stores came from clear across the continent (fuelish). So usually my grocery bags are filled with a schizoid mix.

In our family meals, animal flesh is rarely the centerpiece (only on the big holidays) -- it is an accent, a seasoning, the cherry on top. I'm not much for fake soy meats either, but when I can't bear the thought of a meat dog and I want something to go with my yummy homemade kraut, the soy dogs fit the bill. (The guys opt for meat, except one son who is tending towards the vegetarian side these days). Far from feeling deprived, we eat fantastic meals from foodways spanning the planet. Mediterranean and Asian cuisines are very easy to do without meat, or with just enough for some flavor. Southern comfort food is great too, with reduced fat and meat, more accent on the great veggies.

Not meaning to preach, just hoping to help someone reading this who might want to make a change and doesn't quite know how to start. I suggest rushing out immediately to Sundog Books and purchasing the most voluptuous cookbook in the world: Crazy Water, Pickled Lemons. One of my foodie pals calls this book "food porn," and she's right! It is not a vegetarian cookbook, but it has the most luscious Mediterranean recipes and photos, many of which are meatless; the ones with meat are easily adapted to vegetarian. The introductory pages to each chapter are positively rhapsodic. Another great cookbook for beginners is the original Moosewood Cookbook, though it's a bit heavy on dairy and fats for my taste these days. Easy enough to adjust or use lower fat cheese, neufchatel instead of cream cheese, etc.

Anybody else got a fave cookbook?

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

Here's a very relevant article:

Toward Freedom - Swine Flu Fuels Concerns About Factory Farms

I must run - my son just came in from Baton Rouge! The recent LSU grad!

G

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Well, I don't qualify. Picked up today: beef (tenderloin) kabobs, pork kabobs, chicken kabobs and some ginormous shrimps that I thought were lobster tails! Tons o' veggies! Half n half and eggs! Am having people over this weekend; and, I do mix up my diet with raw, nuts n berries, etc. Highly dubious I'll ever be a vegan.

But, I applaud Y'all!!

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

If you can watch that video and not think about what you are eating, I applaud you. You must have a shut off button that I don't have....
That was disturbing.

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"You are your choices"
www.lifeonshore.com
http://bobbyjblog.com

Congrats to the graduate. Back to the topic of what to eat. I bought a big sack full of mirlitons at Fresh Market the other day. I've never eaten them, but I understand you can grow them here as a perennial and very productive vegetable, comparable in use to squash.

Got any mirliton recipes I should try? Any tips for the mirliton newbie on preparation, propagation? Thanks!

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

As Susan alluded to earlier, the major reason for the price discrepancy between conventional and organic is not in the farming methods - which are actally more cost effective - but in the government assistance that the big food conglomerates get, AND in their constant attempts to drive small, sustainable farmers out of business. Read virtually any book or article on the topic, and I guarantee it will be an eye-opening experience. Believe me, the folks who continue in their quest to offer a healthy alternative to vast quantities of poisonous junk being offered are heroes in my book. If you are a conscious eater for whatever reason - whether it's disease prevention/management or political/ethical beliefs - the deck is stacked against you. Learning to eat truly healthfully is a full-time proposition. Labeling laws allow products to be promoted as "healthy" when even a bit of genuine nutritional education would enable the consumer to know that such a claim is ludicrous. Huge companies like Monsanto and Bayer want to end "heirloom" farming, meaning the growing of crops from natural, creator-made seeds, and want all farmers to buy their genetically modified seeds annually from them. Btw, genetically modified means there's a pesticide literally built into the DNA of the seed, and - you guessed it - you are eating that pesticide when you ingest that food. GMO seeds are sterile, meaning they are good for only one crop, then guess what? Yep, farmers have to buy more seeds from these companies on each crop rotation. Is it any wonder that disease rates are skyrocketing worlwide?? We are not eating what we were created and evolved to eat. It would be like putting kerosene in your car's gas tank and wondering why it won't run.

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If facts are the seeds that later produce knowledge and wisdom, then the emotions and the impressions of the senses are the fertile soil in which the seeds must grow.-Rachel Carson

go to YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. and search GMO ....lots of quick videos on the subject if you want more information.

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

I have to say it again, I am SO GLAD we are exploring these issues here. None of this is news, it's been going on for many years; the difference is that for whatever reason a lot of folks seem motivated onw to learn more and start being more conscious of where their food is from and how it's produced.

Thinking about that sort of thing used to be the domain of the granola crowd (I include myself in that camp -- my sons call me a "Crunchy Granola Mom"), but it seems to be getting closer and closer to mainstream. A tipping point has been reached

Fair trade is an important and related issue -- and I have recently learned that just like "organic" labels, "fair trade" labels don't always mean you're getting what you think you're getting. The folks at Amavida know the ins and outs of this a lot better than I do -- they are members of a fair trade coffee buying cooperative, and they actually personally know the growers they buy from, and have visited some of the villages where the coffee they serve and sell is produced. Two of their grower representatives have visited here in the last year and given fascinating presentations on where and how the coffee is grown, processed, tested, sorted, etc.

I'm more of a tea drinker myself, and haven't heard much about fair trade tea. But I understand the tea camellia can be grown here, and have been trying to buy a couple to see if it's any good. No luck so far getting my hands on the plants -- anyone got tea camellias they're willing to share cuttings from?

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

I didn't watch the video, but read the posts. I guess my shut off button was shut off before I turned it on......sorry! I trust you when you say it was disturbing......that's all the qualifying I need......

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Who is Lynnie?? ~~~~~~~Signed, All Y'all

OMG my grandmother used to cook merlitons when i was a child. My mother in law who still lives in Louisiana cooks them, I will ask her for some recipes. By the way, one of my daughters is a vegetarian, at first it was tough to always keep her in mind when cooking family meals but now we are used to it and it's easy.

Stunning is required in the US by the Humane Slaughter
Act of 1958 which requires that any meat plants selling meat products to Federal
Agencies to slaughter animals in a humane manner. This has gradually become
a requirement for most plants. The major exceptions would be Kosher (Jewish)
and Halal (Muslim) plants. Other countries such as Australia and New Zealand
use electrical stunning and immobilization. The animal is rendered unconscious
with an electrical current. The goal of stunning is to make the animal insensitive
to pain, but the heart needs to remain beating to allow for complete

exanguination or bleeding.

From Montana State University, Department of Animal and Range Sciences

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Anthony

We showed Food Inc. at MountainFilm on Memorial Day. I'd love to bring it here but I doubt I could; it just opened in NY and SF yesterday. Hopefully it will hit the panhandle, but again, doubtful. Do go and see this movie if you are at all concerned about what you're buying in the supermarket. That hamburger you're eating could potentially be part of 1000 cows, the slaughter rate is so high that the cuttings just get mixed into one huge grinder.

Official Food, Inc. Movie Site - Hungry For Change?

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click >> Filter your water instead of using bottled water << click

I like meat

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part redneck/part barbie

I'm not a card carrying huge PETA, fur spray painting activist, so I hope I don't come across as preachy - but I do know from years of reading about this and talking to people first hand that "stunning" isn't always as it sounds. I think when we read about stunning we think - see, the animals don't suffer. Unfortunately not always the case.

Vegan Outreach | Why Vegan? | If Slaughterhouses Had Glass Walls

Global Action Network: Slaughterhouses: Factsheets: General Information on Slaughterhouses

In the link below is an example of someone really trying to do the right thing for the animals. Unfortunately, you will find that there are still people who object to the killing of any animals. This is a personal choice but it is NOT realistic in my opinion. Much better to support humane treatment during life and death.

Humane Slaughterhouses: Food Politics : gourmet.com this guy!!

G

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Like I said this shouldn't really be about vegan/carnivore but about ethical treatment of animals. We'll never all be vegans and I understand where you are coming from. I hope to focus on the slaughterhouse practices and on the way the animals are raised. We can do better as a society!

I hope you had a nice weekend with your guests!

G

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I would LOVE to have some of your homegrown tea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your posts are so great!

G

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Well first I gottta get me hands on some plants! Speaking of that, I want to grow mirlitons too. Do you know of a source for a good variety that does well in NOLA and might do well here too? For now I'm trying to sprout grocery store ones (probably from Mexico), but would rather have more local heirloom variety if possible. Do you know a good South LA nursery that would have these and might ship?

I made my first dish with mirlitons over the weekend -- a salsa that also had tomatoes, grilled corn, onion, and kidney beans (only because I didn't have any blackbeans on hand), lime juice and rind, Ume vinegar and sea salt. Got better after a day or two in the fridge. YUM.

Next I think I want to try them on the grill with some rosemary and garlic infused olive oil.

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

I almost did saturday completely vegetarian (inc. eggs) for you guys ....................... but that failed at dinnertime when I decided my pasta sauce needed some sausage in it!

To balance it out I put in some homegrown zucchini, basil, oregano, and rosemary though!

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The enemy is ignorance.

Artichokes too! I want to get hold of some varieties that do will in LA.

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

Wow, I'm just getting back into town after 2 weeks of blissful computerless living and it's great to see this thread has been revived with so many informative comments.

There are so many comments I want to comment on, I don't know where to begin commenting.

While I was away, I picked up a copy of Vandana Shiva's book, Stolen Harvest: The Hijacking of the Global Food Supply to read on the road. She's a social and environmental justice activist, scientist, and advocate of creating sustainable communities. She has an incredible knack for taking the information from sources like Michael Pollan's Omnivores Dillemma and giving clear explanations of the effects of our simple daily food choices (or lack of choices.)

Susan, you're absolutely right about externalities. These are the hidden costs that are not accounted for in any money making venture. In her book, Vandana mentions these externalities in food production, but poses them in terms of myths we are led to believe. One myth is that industrially raising cattle (CAFO's) is more economical and efficient than free range, grass fed cattle that require more land and time to reach maturation. Some of the externalities not accounted for are the natural resources needed to process the waste from these concentrated feed lots and the water, land, and nutrients needed to grow the grain that is fed to the CAFO cows.

The book is a great, quick eye-opening read at only 127 pages. She takes you through a variety of foods from soy, wheat, beef, fish, etc. and how large corporations, the WTO, and the World Bank deprive us of food choices and the right to safe healthy food. She explains how the choices of the global North affect the global South. She also offers hope and inspiration as she describes the accomplishments that have been made by ordinary citizens in protecting their livelihoods and food supply. She has also started a seed saving movement called Navdanya, to save biodiversity.

Speaking of cost, I often hear, it's too expensive to eat local, organic, non-gmo food, especially now. The truth is that we pay one way or another. We are one of the cheapest nations in terms of how much we spend on food - something that is suppose to nourish and keep us healthy. We spend 9-10% of our income on food where developing countries spend upwards of 50%. Unfortunately, access to good quality food is mistaken as a luxury of the rich (dev. countries) instead of a basic right for all.

The book further reinforced my thoughts about eating consciously, supporting local farmers, being mindful of food origin, and the effects my food choices have on other beings, both human and non-human.

Addressing the issue of extreme thinking and doing: even if we don't make the best choices all the time, we have the option to make a better choice the next time. We can only start where we are and move forward with the information we have at hand.

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CFH Design Studio
Eco Design + Living

Um, Chandra, can I borrow that book when you're finished with it? Ever considered a career writing book reviews? Welcome back, we missed you!

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

No kidding, Chandra, you should post that review on Amazon.

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If facts are the seeds that later produce knowledge and wisdom, then the emotions and the impressions of the senses are the fertile soil in which the seeds must grow.-Rachel Carson

Thanks Susan and MissCritter, I just thought it was too timely and relavent to not share.

Oh, and most of her facts are footnoted - for the skeptical.

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CFH Design Studio
Eco Design + Living

Chandra is an excellent writer! I have been telling her that for yrs now!

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

Hi Chandra I've heard some really great things about you and have read your blog too. I too have GOT to read the book - thanks for the review. You do write extremely well and are so informed. I am sure I need to go back and read more of your writings.

Regarding food costs. I never mind paying for top quality food - fresh, local and organic and even non organic that is fresh is better than no fruits and veggie that's for sure! I remember shopping with a friend who just wouldn't pay for fruits and veggies (and this is supermarket shopping) yet, paid $24 for Prilosec. We pay one way or another like you said

I have found that for me, the more simple the meal the better - especially this time of year. It has been very hot here and when summer comes, I go just about totally raw. It really works for me. But I don't do the typical raw - dehydrate the seeds and make "raw tacos", "raw pizza", etc.... Instead I make meals from what I find local or grow local (not all local but local is the focus - or should I say "seasonal"). Example would be that yesterday I had a pear, celery, ginger smoothie (like the juice at Seaside only this was blended in vitamix), later I had a mango, banana, blueberry (we grow them), strawberry, spinach (can't taste it blended) and hemp powder (hemp isn't local obviously - that's a whole other thread I could start about how wonderful hemp is) and for supper I went out and grazed on 3 types of berries and then picked a huge bowl of tomatoes which I ate with cucumbers (we grew also), peppers (we grew) and onion. I ate such a large bowl that I was fine with that - and the taste of the fresh tomatoes was not overpowered by condiments, etc... Very cooling. Later, I had a small bowl of brown rice with broccoli (my one "cooked" food for the day) It is funny, this day of eating would be considered "incomplete" because it didn't include "typical" meals. Sometimes, I eat greens for bfast - just depends on what is available. I am rambling again and off topic My point is what? I guess that I like to think of what you said when I eat - food is meant to nourish my body. That's one reason I don't have a hard time saying "no" to unhealthy foods. (I take exception on very special occasions or on vacation - but still the exceptions are minor) So.... not only are these fresh, mostly local foods better for me, but also for the enviornment and the animals. Also, these don't come in packages and most (exclude hemp, mango and nana) haven't been shipped.

I look so forward to shopping at For The Health of It - it will be so close to my house I can ride my bike and also I very much want to get involved in the community garden. It is so cool to be a part of this forum and "meet" you guys!!

G

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Your post made me do this when I read it this morning!!

That's great - because you were thinking about the choices and "meat" was not the center of the meal. That's a yum sounding balance adding the fresh zucchini! I dearly love zucchini in pasta sauce and the fresh herbs make it so gourmet!

I think this is a perfect example of the goal of the thread.

G

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First I have to say I just ordered Stolen Harvest: The Hijacking of the Global Food Supply used on Amazon! Perfect, as I am almost done with the book I am currently reading!!! Let's start a book club like Oprah lol! When I get down there I can pass along the copy to anyone interested in reading it! Thanks Chandra.

Your mirliton recipe sounds fabo!! I have never grown them though, so I can't help you out with a variety. Don't you LOVE the combo of blackbeans, tomatoes, corn, onion and lime?? I say YUM also!! I make a tasty spicy Cuban blackbean soup with sweet potatoes - one of my winter staples!! PLEASE post your recipe on the recipe forum!!

G

PS Are you in FL or LA?

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the book club-sharing books sounds like a great idea!
where is the gardening forum? I cant fins it and I have looked and looked!

Have you all heard (excuse me) ya'll heard of the DIRT DOCTOR?
great web site,,,,and radio show about gardening....Natural Organic Home Garden Health Howard Garrett Dirt Doctor - Natural Organic Home Garden Health Howard Garrett Dirt Doctor

The Dirt Doctor's WEEKLY ORGANIC RADIO PROGRAM offers you the best information and advice on natural organic gardening, landscaping, pet health and care, pest control, home care and a natural way to live our lives. The Dirt Doctor will help you understand why organics and how to do it.

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

Thanks for all the great posts! I'm in FL. Live in Seagrove, where all my spare time is about chugging along on the permaculture plan Chandra created for our 1/4-acre "homestead," LOL. Okay, if you don't know a variety of mirliton, how about a southern LA nursery that specializes in local heirloom food plants? Or a grocer that sells local heirloom mirlitons (not ones flown in from Guatemala or Mexico). I will also check with Just Fruits and Exotics over in Crawfordville to see what they know about these. (www.justfruitsandexotics.com)

Recipe. I didn't have a recipe. I just threw it all together, sorry. I cook like that most of the time... Next time I make it I will try to get a sense of quantities and write it down for posting. I would add cilantro to the blackbean group, and cukes

Blackbeans and sweet potato soup, sounds great. One of my fave winter meals is baked sweet potatoes, blackbeans over saffron rice, and cooked greens--collards, kale, whatever.

I eat a lot more raw in summer too. It is too hot to eat heavy stuff most of the time, and when I do, I pay in misery. Winter, can't do the raw thing much at all.

Have always wondered about the Vita Mix. They are so pricey. When you feel like it, please share what all you do with it. I've never been able to imagine drinking pureed stuff that I am accustomed to juicing (all that pulp frankly sounds a bit gaggy to me, no offense intended, and I welcome being corrected if this machine does something to the pulp I don't presently grasp).

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

Anything with kale or collard is something I love! I grow dinosaur kale which is the BEST imo.
Have you tried it?

Vitamix - I used to juice all the time. Then I would throw out all the pulp (well, compost) and I thought I'd try the vitamix to blend the entire thing. I now LOVE it more than juicing. It really grinds things up so smooth like. For instance, in my green smoothies with kale the kale is completely smoothed and incorporated as in a milkshake. You can get something a LOT LESS PRICEY by getting a Jack LaLanne Healthmaster 100. It does the same old thing as a vitamix as I have both (or had till I gave my JL to my son).

You can make "raw" soup too as it heats up what you throw in there just enough to be warm but not destroy all enzymes.

I too couldn't go all raw in winter! NO WAY - I love my soothing warm soups too much for that and my cornbread and greens!

Gotta get off this computer and go back to new house ideas

G

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The reason we normally don't think about this treatment is because of the wonderful commercials we see on TV about the California cows and how they are grazing in the sun and having a great time laughing with each other.

This was the first time I saw this video and it honestly just made me feel sick. I'm about 85% red meat free...on occasion I'll grab a burger. But I do eat chicken and fish daily. Watching the rest of those videos, it makes me want to stop eating chicken too! (but I won't because it's the healthiest food that can come to my kitchen)

It's just crazy how much Americans need to consume. It's not just the ho-ho's adding to the obesity rate, its the high-fat red meat that Americans have to eat in each meal and fast food burgers.

Hopefully, like everyone is saying, we will start consuming less as a whole and can concentrate on treating these animals more humanely.

It's weird to think that if you were to take humans or dogs right from birth and treat them this way- it would look exactly the same.

Bronk you are right about the treatment of animals. If these pics were showing dogs all people would be outraged for sure.

Regarding chicken - I hate to tell you this but chickens and pigs are the most inhumanely treated of all - mostly chickens. Now, if you can get your chicken from a local grower or from a place you check out that raises them w/out debeaking and in such crowded conditions then that would be a huge plus for the chickens - and for you.

If you ever doubt if you need animal products for health please read The China Study. While the purpose of this thread is not to convert people to veganism it still should be stated that we do not need animal products to be healthy, to grow muscle or to be an athlete. (think elephant, gorilla) Now, that said, that doesn't mean everyone would enjoy an animal free diet or feel their best on it. Sometimes, vegan diets must be tweaked. Often, people rely way too much on grains and processed vegan foods. Those make me ill when I have too much in my diet. In fact, I feel worse if I eat soy this and soy that - to an extreme or lots of wheat.

I think that refined carbohydrates - soft drinks, donuts, chips, crackers, buns, etc... also contribute a whole lot to the obesity problem. I know very overweight vegans. In fact, Lays chips and a coke are vegan lol! The goal is health for us and better treatment for animals.

for contributing to the conversation - you made some great points.

G

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I have a vita mix and used to use it a lot when I had tons of tomatoes and a huge garden. I used to make tomato sauce that I would can. right now it has a broken part so its sitting there waiting for me to fix it.,,,but I love it!

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www.TeresaClineGallery.com
GOING TO THE DOGS

Anyone wanting more humanely produced animal products, check out these local suppliers.

Twin Oaks Farm | Where we grow real food Owner Renee Savary is at Seaside Farmer's Market every Saturday and sells organic eggs fro pastured hens. I believe she will eventually have organic chicken meat as well.

For the Health of It in Blue Mountain Beach 850.267.0558 Open 6 days a week, offering best selection in area of organic free-range products, and can special order for items not regularly stocked. Free range turkeys for the holidays, etc.

Toni in Grayton also has some interesting local meats including emu, but I don't know details of feeding, caged/pastured, and slaughter practices....

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Susan Horn
www.artisan-builds.com

Try Kathy Freston's Quantum Wellness Cleanse ... part of it is avoiding animal products for 21-days. I'm 2-weeks into and and feel GREAT (+ I've lost 6lbs!). It wll give you new level of awareness about food and how it gets to your table.

Wow Lois - thanks so much for contributing that info.

What types of things do they have on your menu?

Keep us posted.

G

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I wrote a column awhile back about a good friend of mine(Dude). This guy is ripped and in his earlier years was a competing body builder. He has never eaten meat. He would always tell me that the meat protein from animal thing to build muscle was "bull." No Pun intended. It was really hard to debate him because he was living proof. I did not eat meat for two years after meeting him and lost 20lbs and also got in the best shape of my life. I have went back to eating meat but in very small quantities. We also try to pay close attention to where the meat is from. After watching those videos, I am not sure how long that will last.

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"You are your choices"
www.lifeonshore.com
http://bobbyjblog.com

All kinds of great things ... the cleanse involves avoiding the following items for 21-day:

Animal products
Caffeine
Gluten
Sugar
Alcohol

Instead you eat such things as:

Mixed grain cereals (without Gluten and sugar).
Gluten-free bread.
Grains such as brown or wild rice, quinoa, buckwheat, corn.
Nuts: almonds, walnuts, cashews, soynuts, filberts, etc.
Seeds: sunflower, sesame, pumpkin ...
Nut or Seed butters: peanut butter, cashew butter.
Beans & Legumes: black beans, lentils, chickpeas, black-eyed peas, edamame.
Faux meats: burgers, sausage patties, etc.
Artichoke, rice or quinoa pasta.
Pasta sauce
Vegetables
Fruits
Non-dairy milk
Herbal teas
Popcorn
Cornchips
Guacamole
Hummus
etc.

I've been having some terrific meals, such as:

Tomato Herb Risotto
Curries
Artichoke & Mushroom Paella
Roasted summer corn and basil grits w/ blackbean chipotle burger
Spaghetti with Mixed Herb Pesto
Tomato & Onion Quesadillas
Rice & Corn Stuuffed Peppers
Basmati & Black-eyed pea Pilaf
Creamy Italian White Bean Soup
Moroccan Vegetable Stew w/ Harissa Paste
Tuscan Beans
Cream of Asparagus Soup

and much more ...

Fantastic assortments of whole foods! I dearly love quinoa and make a super tabouli out of it - instead of using wheat.

I am thrilled to hear that you are not having any wheat. Anyone reading this thread should seriously give that a try if they are having any allergies, stomach/digestive issues, acne, aches and pains, etc... I kept a food diary at one point many years back and looking back it was amazing how often I ate wheat. Morning, noon and night. No longer in my daily menu. Of course, refined is the worst, but still, giving the body a break from wheat is a great idea.

It really goes without saying that giving your body a rest from animal products is a must - even if it is for just a short time. It is so less taxing on the system to not have to spend energy on digestion. I imagine your energy level has soared!!

Thanks again and do keep us posted.

G

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I believe it - I would have liked to have seen Dude!! Bet he looked great!!

Carl Lewis, was, at his peak vegan. He said he never felt better.

Here's a list of others - starting with my personal hero, author and Ironman medalist, Ruth Heidrich. Her book, Racing For Life - the story about her recovery from breast cancer via a vegan diet, is a must read. She and I exchange emails - she inspires me always!

Almost Vegetarian: Famous vegetarian athletes

G

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My energy level has definitely soared .. I love eating this way and will probably continue the cleanse past the 21-days. I've never been big on consuming animal products so this is easy for me. The glunten-fee diet is new to me, but For the Health of it has a good selection of products.

[quote=Chandra;575815]W

While I was away, I picked up a copy of Vandana Shiva's book, Stolen Harvest: The Hijacking of the Global Food Supply to read on the road. She's a social and environmental justice activist, scientist, and advocate of creating sustainable communities. She has an incredible knack for taking the information from sources like Michael Pollan's Omnivores Dillemma and giving clear explanations of the effects of our simple daily food choices (or lack of choices.)
/quote]

This book arrived today! Can't wait to get into it tonight!

G

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This is why everyone should eat meat that they harvest from the wild vs. nasty processing plants/ the supermarket. You cant get more "organic" than providing your family meat from hunting and fishing responsibly.

this looks so yummy! thanks for providing the info. I would like to read about this more (will google)... I do adore all kinds of meat but over the years we have naturally scaled it back to eating small amounts of meat, and certainly not every day. Meat is mostly a side dish, and as much as I LOVE certain meat dishes, including a wonderful cheeseburger, it does not need to be the center of my diet by any means.

thank you for this thread TCline. I think most of us have a real desire to become more aware consumers, making better choices whenever possible. I have not seen the video yet - I am scared to see it. But, I'll try. All of the posters here have provided excellent information!

I could do without all of these.....except caffeine

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"If A is a success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut."
-Einstein
www.facebook.com/bronk33 ----add me!

So true! That is a tricky one. I need to get off it though. It messes with my blood sugar levels and makes me crash. I love the initial lift but the side effects not so good!

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"You are your choices"
www.lifeonshore.com
http://bobbyjblog.com

The BEST thing I ever did for my energy level was to stop caffeine! It sounds like it would be the opposite, but since it revs the body up - it is just natural that it will crash and one needs another revving up. Watch out for withdrawal headache though. NOT a lot of fun, but slowly decreasing is the way to go.

Believer, regarding hunting. Many animal rights activists are still opposed to hunting. I am not one of them. IF someone is truly going to eat the meat and not have it just sit in the freezer until it gets thrown out (they do that around here all the time). Many hunters love the environment and try to take good care not to litter, etc... And of course, at least the animal was not caged or forced to lead a truly abnormal inhumane existence.

G

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I saw a sight yesterday that I've seen many times in the past that makes me not want to eat chicken.

There are a lot of poultry processing plants in Georgia. I saw a truckload of chickens passing through town in near 100 degree weather. They were packed into cages like sardines and didn't look very healthy.

Sorry, old friend Doug Cagle, I know they were going to one of your plants. But couldn't your chickens at least not be miserable before they get their heads chopped off? I wonder if their stress hormones (if chickens have such hormones) affect my body when I eat them after they are processed.

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Oh I've seen that before too. Not exactly the pastoral pic that comes to mind when one things of "farm raised" chicken.

That's what this thread is all about. Like I said before, poultry and pigs have it really bad.

G

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Everyone should raise their own chickens and cows at Point Washington State park. Free pasture grazing for the animals of course provided by the good fellas of Walton County Commissioners office.


Gidget, I deer hunt with a bow by the way and now moving on to a primitive style longbow. Im one of the few good hunters left that only takes what his family eats.

That's good to hear. We live on hundreds of acres of pine forest and have lots of deer. They enjoy the honeysuckle and habitat we created when we planted the trees 20 yrs ago.

G

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My Granny lived on a farm near Tyler, TX. She had chickens, and at lunchtime she'd go outside, grab a chicken, wring its neck, and fry it up for lunch. In the meantime she'd go to the garden, grab tomatoes, corn, butterbeans, etc., and cook them up. Yum. Sad for the chicken, but at least it didn't suffer in 100 degree heat for hours in a cage.

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It is a good point about the chicken. How long did your granny live? Was she active into her later years?

G

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Gidget, you are so right about the wheat. Our teen son began suffering with chronic fatigue about a year ago, and we were unable to pinpoint the cause. He had ongoing insomnia and seemed almost depressed - less social, diminished sense of humor, difficulty concentrating in school. And this was previously a bright, talkative, funny kid. Though I chalked some of it up to adolesence, I knew that something was wrong. Fortunately our doc, Tommy John at Sacred Heart, thought to check for the gluten antibody. His blood tests came back with raised antibody levels, so he referred us to gastro doc. We saw two. One in Panama City, said that although he may be gluten sensitive or celiac, that was not likely the cause of his fatigue problem. He wanted to put him on Buspar and have him quit weightlifting (the one thing he still enjoyed doing). Sorry, that diagnosis did not fly with momma. The other local gastro doc was better, but still doubtful that his symptoms were the result of gluten sensitivity. The only way to know for sure, he said, was to perform a small intestine biopsy, which would require him eating gluten for six weeks prior to get an accurate result. We had reduced his gluten consumption already, and when I re-introduced it, he immediately felt worse. Fortunately, I found a lab online founded and run by Kenneth Fine, a gastro doc specializing in gluten and casein senstivity. It uses a non-invasive stool sample and does not require the patient to re-introduce gluten to be effective. They also offer a DNA test for genetic sensitivity to gluten. As we suspected, his test came back positive, not for celiac, but for gluten sensitivity, and his DNA test indicated he has not one, but two, genes predisposing him to it - meaning Mr. C and I have gluten issues, as well. And he is sensitive to casein, as well.

The bottom line is that his problem was indeed the result of eating gluten. My bright, funny, active boy is back. He has more energy, and though he still suffers a bit with sleep issues, that continues to improve, as well. And since I've stopped eating gluten, the mild arthritic pain in my hands has completely disappeared. There are so many diseases and conditions that may be associated with gluten that the list is staggering: fibromyalgia, lupus, cancer, arthritis, asthma, autism, ADD & ADHD among them. How many prescriptions are written needlessly for these conditions?

When I think of all the people unnecessarily medicated for conditions that might be resolved through dietary changes, especially children, I want to cry. I thank God I was prompted to find the underlying cause of my son's health issues. Discovering my own genetic issues with gluten provides a better picture of my family's past health issues, as well.

Organicmama loaned me an eye-opening book titled Dangerous Grains, which I highly recommend. It was especially interesting to note the connection some studies have made between gluten sensitivity and alcoholism. And there are many books on amazon related to both gluten and casein, including cookbooks with recipes.

The lab that did our testing is http://www.enterolab.com. The cost for the entire battery of tests was under $400, which I consider a bargain, and there is a detailed explanation of how to interpret your test results on the site.

Sorry to be so wordy, but I'm convinced that many people are suffering needlessly, as we were, with issues related to gluten in their diet. I hope this helps get the word out.

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If facts are the seeds that later produce knowledge and wisdom, then the emotions and the impressions of the senses are the fertile soil in which the seeds must grow.-Rachel Carson

Beach Runner, my grandmother sounds like your grandmother and she was from Tyler, Texas too. Rachelle Dickard was her name but she was a Vance when she lived in Tyler. She moved to Dallas and eventually JXN, Ms. post WWII. She raised us to grow your own vegetables, raise your animals and pretty much live off the land not the supermarket.

She lived until she was 90. She was active until she broke her hip due to osteoporosis. Mom has broken both hips. When her second one broke a year-and-a-half ago,she told the surgeon,"I'm glad I only have two legs because I'd hate to think about breaking another hip." My doctors started me on osteo meds early because of my family history.

My Mom is a Weatherall (I won't say her father's name because he abandoned the family when she was a young child). We are related to the artist who owns Weatherall Fine Art on 30A. My first name is Leita, as is hers, named after her aunt by marriage, Leita Weatherall.

Small world.

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Oh my Teresa! That is an amazing story. Thanks goodness you listen to your instincts and didn't just "treat symptoms" as is par for the course now days.

From an evolutionary standpoint, wheat has only been in our diet for a very short time - around 11.000 yrs I believe. That is a drop in the bucket when you consider how long we have been around. I would strongly consider giving up ALL gluten products for a goodly amount of time if anyone suffers from aches, pains, etc... (see earlier post)

Thanks so much for sharing and I am SO glad your son is better! And I am also glad you started this thread because it has evolved into something most educational, and everyone seems to be so congenial in their posts regarding these concepts.

G

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Sounds like a wonderfully interesting person who loved life and had a great sense of humor.

How cool about the name and connections!

G

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Ever hear of Dr John McDougall? A lot of people get their start into vegetarianism via his books/lectures. I bought my first McDougall book over 20 yrs ago. While I do not agree with everything he writes, he is spot on when it comes to many things. I'll let you decide. Just don't throw it all out if you don't agree with one or two of his conclusions.

The McDougall Newsletter - June 2009

There are several articles here = one on fixing health care which is most enlightening

Then there are articles on animal products and the environment, red yeast for cholesterol, fish, and milk.

There's also some of Mary's recipes.

G

PS Just finished the book Chandra suggested Stolen Harvest. When I get to FL I can pass it on to anyone interested. Excellent info written by a brilliant woman. (see Chandra's review several posts up ^)

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I want to see this. It is called Food Inc.

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How Vegan? | Vegan Outreach

Excellent article!! Thumbs up!

G

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Me too - John R was trying to get it for Mountainfilm, but think the timing didn't work.

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The enemy is ignorance.

Thinking in terms of health, and yes, humaneness, I recently decided to see if I could become a vegetarian. But I soon discovered my stomach would become somewhat bloated and uncomfortable when I ate my veggie burgers etc. It actually kinda hurt my sweet little tummy. Made me look fat, too.

I googled it and found out it was a common problem. I don't know how people do it or if its just what I was eating. I agree that the 'meat' practices should be as humane as possible and like everything else, including our government practices, would be better served to be on the local level. (Btw, there's no way I'm watching the video. As a writer and 'creative type' I tend to 'feel' too much. That would live with me on too great a level. Maybe that's part of the point of showing it, but...

Anyway, I just wonder, if eating veggies has that affect on our systems, as I've mentioned, then maybe we weren't wired to eat them exclusively. I don't know. And I realize that's not necessarily the point of this thread, to mandate that. I know it's more about treating animlas humanely. I just can't eat veggies that much. Although I do stir a powdered substance into water, Greens stuff.

Excellent observations! It is VERY common. First off, if you see some of the earlier posts you will see that I for one, don't eat things like veggie burgers (unless in a bind) or lots of tofu, etc.... as I think that is very processed and tried too much to be like real meat. I focus on tender greens, tender lettuces, fruits, grains such as quinoa, brown rice, amaranth, a few raw nuts and seeds and raw and steamed or lightly cooked veggies. There are SO many meals that we cook where meat is just thrown in (stir fry for example) that are just as tasty with all veggies.

I am glad you are aware of the animal suffering and you don't need to watch the video. I totally understand where you are coming from.

G

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