Never eat meat again. - Page 2

scooterbug44 · #**101** 07-08-2009, 04:53 PM

IMO there are a lot of vegetables and vegetarian foods that are really good - it's the attempts to make fake "meat" that are just NASTY and keep many people from becoming fully vegetarian.

Susan Horn · #**102** 07-08-2009, 05:00 PM

Mikecatadjuster,

Hats off to you for trying! I admire such open mindedness and honest effort towards positive change. It may be that a more gradual approach would work, should you have the desire to try again.

When I made the shift to vegetarian eating, I did it gradually. First I cut out red meat except once a week, and started adding bean and rice dishes to compensate. Then I cut out all red meat, and reduced fish and chicken quantities and frequencies. Meanwhile, I experimented with tofu, tempeh, wild experiments with grilling all sorts of stange things, and international cuisines that are largely vegetarian or easily made vegetarian (Indian, Italian, Asian, and eventually, back home to meatless Southern soul food!). Going vegetarian opened a vast new world of culinary adventure that I might not have explored otherwise. Eventually -- I'd say in a few months -- I was able to cut out meat altogether, and I didn't have any digestive problems at all. Now, I have digestive probelms if I eat to much animal food!

In the meantime, I have learned that many of us have poor digestion because of the effects of SAD (Standard American Diet), and many of us need to tonify and rebuild the health of our digestive system. Not something that happens overnight, and different approaches work for different folks.

For me, this is what seems to help: Generally, eating more raw foods (with enzymes still intact to help with digestion and absorption) -- or taking enzyme tablets (available at For the Health of It). Raw pineapple is delish and has very beneficial enzymes for digestion, as does raw green papaya, though that is hard to get hold of without driving to Ft. Walton to the Asian markets there. Small amounts of cultured dairy products are fine (kefir, active yogurt, cheese), but non-fermented dairy gives me fits. Too much refined grain is also a problem, but whole grains in moderation are okay; live sauerkraut provides tasty probiotics (I make my own) that help my digestion also.

I won't go into the whole deal about fiber, except to mention it

And drinking lots of water makes anything better, for me I mean.

There was a cookbook I used when making the transition -- The Gradual Vegetarian was the name of it. I'm sure it's out of print and pretty dated by now, but there are probably half a dozen similar ones at every bookstore, now that eating less meat is more mainstream than when I went that route YEARS ago. FWIW, I do eat animal flesh now, but not much, and it's more as a matter of convenience when eating with/cooking for others than a matter of my own preference. I flat ran out of the energy it takes to be a strict vegetarian in a world of carnivores! It is VERY easy for me now to cook fantastic meals with no meat at all, or no dairy/grain, or with just a little bit of meat for seasoning. I think the whole adventure has made me a better cook and exposed me more broadly to foods than sticking to a meat centered diet ever would have....

But I am rambling. Bon appetit!

Gidget · #**103** 07-08-2009, 06:01 PM

Susan, you always write so well. You said it perfectly.

See you soon!

Gidget

mikecatadjuster · #**104** 07-08-2009, 08:17 PM

Thanks for taking time out, Susan. All well said. Honestly, I eat a lot of peanut butter and jelly on honey wheat bread. Why? Because of a cost analysis I did ;) Plus, I like to eat it.

Food is actually a pretty big drain on ones budget. I also eat Ramen noodles. That's like 33 cents a meal. Well, hard to call it a meal, but...

I eat a decent amount of salad. The Publix ones are pretty good. Their spring mix is desirable as well as another I recently tried. But you make me wonder about your exploration into cooking up some creative gifts. I'd like to sample your offerings.

My normal food consumption is cereal, granola type bars, P&J sandwiches, Ramen noodles, salads, Hershey's Cream Pie, fruits, Greens drink, water (mostly easy stuff).

Translation: I need a good woman ;)

Susan Horn · #**105** 07-09-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecatadjuster

Thanks for taking time out, Susan. All well said. Honestly, I eat a lot of peanut butter and jelly on honey wheat bread. Why? Because of a cost analysis I did ;) Plus, I like to eat it.

Food is actually a pretty big drain on ones budget. I also eat Ramen noodles. That's like 33 cents a meal. Well, hard to call it a meal, but...

I eat a decent amount of salad. The Publix ones are pretty good. Their spring mix is desirable as well as another I recently tried. But you make me wonder about your exploration into cooking up some creative gifts. I'd like to sample your offerings.

My normal food consumption is cereal, granola type bars, P&J sandwiches, Ramen noodles, salads, Hershey's Cream Pie, fruits, Greens drink, water (mostly easy stuff).

Translation: I need a good woman ;)

In the interim (until you find Mrs. Right), perhaps a personal chef service would help, or some exciting new cookbooks, or a cooking class? Sounds like quick, cheap and easy is the sort of cooking you're into? (BTW< Americans spend less on food as a percentage of income than just about any other nation on the planet, I believe -- our food is super cheap, relatively, only because of the stupid Farm Bill and the way it subsidizes overproduction of commodity crops like corn. Very involved, too complex for me to try and explain; Netflix has a movie called King of Corn that spells it out entertainingly if you're interested).

Okay, quick cheap and easy. I have recently renewed my commitment to healthier eating (having allowed life's stresses and schedule to knock me off that path lately), and am having healthy fun in the kitchen again. Will try to remember to post recipes that might fit your requirements, even though I don't ever cook from recipes.

This week's newest experiments are with flax crackers (high in fiber, healthy omega-3 fats, etc.) and they are super easy. Even my very carnivorous men (Hub and sons, just to be clear about why I have plural men, LOL) have expressed delight upon tasting these babies!

So basically you get a big jar and top, and soak a cup or two of flax seeds in an equal amount of water and seasonings overnight -- at room temp, not fridge).

Seasonings: any combination of soy sauce, tamari or Bragg's liquid aminos; lemon/lime juice and/or grated rind; garlic, ginger, cayenne, dill, cilantro, cumin, whatever you like; apple cider vinegar or ume vinegar; sky's the limit)

Next day, stir up the gooey thick resulting glop, and spread it on oiled (I used olive oil) cookie sheets about 1/8" - 1/4" thick. If you have silicon baking hseets to line the metal pans, all the better. If you have a dehydrator with nonstick sheets, that would be the best (mine is on order).

If you don't have a dehydrator, put the cookie sheets in the oven on the lowest setting possible, like 150 F or lower. Check often and when they have dried out enough, turn them over (ideally flip a whole sheet like a pancake, though if they stick it could take some scraping and fiddling). This will reveal the still-gooey moist bottom which needs to be on top a while to dry out. Put the flipped giant cracker sheets back in the low oven and check often, taking them out when they have reched a consistency you like. I like crunchy, some folks prefer the moister chewy stage.

I can't wait to try this in my dehydrator, since the crackers will be raw (anything that hasn't been processed at more than 110 degrees F) and thus all the enzymes and other goodness of the ingredients will remain at their peak of nutritiousness.

So all that may sound complex, but really it is SUPER easy. BTW, if you oven won't go any lower than say 300, then just get it up to heat then turn it off and crack the oven door to allow steam out. Keep doing that till the crackers are ready.

Next time, easy tasty blender drinks. Remind me if I forget!

Gidget · #**106** 07-09-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susan Horn

In the interim (until you find Mrs. Right), perhaps a personal chef service would help, or some exciting new cookbooks, or a cooking class? Sounds like quick, cheap and easy is the sort of cooking you're into? (BTW< Americans spend less on food as a percentage of income than just about any other nation on the planet, I believe -- our food is super cheap, relatively, only because of the stupid Farm Bill and the way it subsidizes overproduction of commodity crops like corn. Very involved, too complex for me to try and explain; Netflix has a movie called King of Corn that spells it out entertainingly if you're interested).

Okay, quick cheap and easy. I have recently renewed my commitment to healthier eating (having allowed life's stresses and schedule to knock me off that path lately), and am having healthy fun in the kitchen again. Will try to remember to post recipes that might fit your requirements, even though I don't ever cook from recipes.

This week's newest experiments are with flax crackers (high in fiber, healthy omega-3 fats, etc.) and they are super easy. Even my very carnivorous men (Hub and sons, just to be clear about why I have plural men, LOL) have expressed delight upon tasting these babies!

So basically you get a big jar and top, and soak a cup or two of flax seeds in an equal amount of water and seasonings overnight -- at room temp, not fridge).

Seasonings: any combination of soy sauce, tamari or Bragg's liquid aminos; lemon/lime juice and/or grated rind; garlic, ginger, cayenne, dill, cilantro, cumin, whatever you like; apple cider vinegar or ume vinegar; sky's the limit)

Next day, stir up the gooey thick resulting glop, and spread it on oiled (I used olive oil) cookie sheets about 1/8" - 1/4" thick. If you have silicon baking hseets to line the metal pans, all the better. If you have a dehydrator with nonstick sheets, that would be the best (mine is on order).

If you don't have a dehydrator, put the cookie sheets in the oven on the lowest setting possible, like 150 F or lower. Check often and when they have dried out enough, turn them over (ideally flip a whole sheet like a pancake, though if they stick it could take some scraping and fiddling). This will reveal the still-gooey moist bottom which needs to be on top a while to dry out. Put the flipped giant cracker sheets back in the low oven and check often, taking them out when they have reched a consistency you like. I like crunchy, some folks prefer the moister chewy stage.

I can't wait to try this in my dehydrator, since the crackers will be raw (anything that hasn't been processed at more than 110 degrees F) and thus all the enzymes and other goodness of the ingredients will remain at their peak of nutritiousness.

So all that may sound complex, but really it is SUPER easy. BTW, if you oven won't go any lower than say 300, then just get it up to heat then turn it off and crack the oven door to allow steam out. Keep doing that till the crackers are ready.

Next time, easy tasty blender drinks. Remind me if I forget!

SUSAN! I want to come break "cracker" with you sometime!!

Speaking of your raw crackers, I am on my 4th summer all raw day today! Cantaloupe, figs, tomatoes, asian pears, smoothies, salads, peaches, and a few raw walnuts! Feeling super dee dooper!

Here's some pics of some of my raw "cooking" lol!

MANGO RAW TART

RAW CORN SALAD

RAW "ICE CREAM"

and last but not least, the pure simple joy of a bowl of ripe figs (my FAVORITE FOOD ON EARTH!) Now THAT is living!

ENJOY the fruits of the Earth!

Gidget

Tootsie · #**107** 07-09-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

IMO there are a lot of vegetables and vegetarian foods that are really good - it's the attempts to make fake "meat" that are just NASTY and keep many people from becoming fully vegetarian.

true! also, it takes some real commitment and study to become vegetarian so you can develop a healthy diet (fake meat is so unnecessary). some of my vegetarian friends are the most unhealthy because their diets are just "no meat", but filled with every other thing on the planet, including tons of bread, pasta, and other carbs.

Gidget · #**108** 07-09-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tootsie

true! also, it takes some real commitment and study to become vegetarian so you can develop a healthy diet (fake meat is so unnecessary). some of my vegetarian friends are the most unhealthy because their diets are just "no meat", but filled with every other thing on the planet, including tons of bread, pasta, and other carbs.

This is SO totally true. As is relying way to much on dairy. Also, one can get such an array of "vegetarian" junk food out there. Yes, it is better for the animals, but when Nature provides such a variety of plant foods, it is crazy no to take advantage of the simplest of harvests.

Good observation Tootsie!

G

Susan Horn · #**109** 07-09-2009, 02:37 PM

Gidget,

LOVE your raw food pics. Beautiful! I can tell you're way more experienced at this than I am, and will sit at your feet and learn once you're here and settled, if you will allow me to! I'll bring some flaxers.

We have a small fig tree and I ate a ripe one yesterday. So fine. We coppiced our big fig tree this year b/c it had gotten too leggy, so it's not bearing this year ;-( But Renee may bring some to Seaside Market when hers come in (Twin Oak Farms).

I am on my 5th almost all raw day, and feeling better already. Energy and digestion MUCH improved from leaving out cooked and junque.

Gidget · #**110** 07-09-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susan Horn

Gidget,

LOVE your raw food pics. Beautiful! I can tell you're way more experienced at this than I am, and will sit at your feet and learn once you're here and settled, if you will allow me to! I'll bring some flaxers.

We have a small fig tree and I ate a ripe one yesterday. So fine. We coppiced our big fig tree this year b/c it had gotten too leggy, so it's not bearing this year ;-( But Renee may bring some to Seaside Market when hers come in (Twin Oak Farms).

I am on my 5th almost all raw day, and feeling better already. Energy and digestion MUCH improved from leaving out cooked and junque.

GOOD for you! I know you feel ENERGIZED! I have so much energy it is unstoppable which I will need because THE MOVE IS THIS WEEKEND!

If you can turn me on to a source of figs then I will be eternally grateful! Not sure we will have the space for a fig tree unless dwarf - but that might just work. Still, it will be years before it really produces for us.

TTY Soon
G

Susan Horn · #**111** 07-09-2009, 04:06 PM

Gidget,

Best wishes for a move that is as easy as can be! I'll e-mail Renee to see if she's bringing figs any time soon. And when you have the time, you might want to check out her website:

www.twinoaksfarm.net

Very cute pictures of the baby ducks and some interesting articles, including one about eggs and one about the organic food business.

Tootsie · #**112** 07-09-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gidget

This is SO totally true. As is relying way to much on dairy. Also, one can get such an array of "vegetarian" junk food out there. Yes, it is better for the animals, but when Nature provides such a variety of plant foods, it is crazy no to take advantage of the simplest of harvests.

Good observation Tootsie!

G

we're all learning, vegetarian and non-vegetarian, to reduce/eliminate processed foods. that alone will help improve our diets. but cereal is processed, right? I love my cereal!!!

Susan Horn · #**113** 07-10-2009, 09:11 AM

Tootsie,

There's cereal, and then there's cereal! If it's in a box and you pour it dry into a bowl and pour milk on it, chances are it's processed (granola being the least processed of that type). Less processed are cereals that you cook, like oatmeal (can also be done up raw quite deliciously), cream of wheat, etc., and grains usually done in more savory dishes like grits/polenta, bulgur (tabouli), rice, etc. Pasta is one my favorites and I prefer the white kind, but that is very processed!

What kind of cereal do you love best? La Loba's maple nut granola tops my list

Susan Horn · #**114** 07-10-2009, 09:15 AM

I checked with Renee Savary of Twin Oaks Farms, and she expects to have figs at the Saturday market in Seaside in about 3 weeks. If you can't make it to buy some of her fresh local figs, rest assured, her fig preserves are great and you can order those from her website (maybe also from Local Harvest) when they're ready.

There may be other local ources for buying figs. Mrs. White in Pt. W. used to let her grandchildren pic the figs, and you could buy them by the gallon bag. Not sure if she's still offering that service....the Whites used to sell yard eggs, fresh crabs, shrimp, you name it.

Gidget · #**115** 08-14-2009, 12:17 PM

I am posting this info under this thread because Jane Velez Mitchell is a huge animal rights advocate. She and I go way back to when we were suite mates at Universidad de las Americas in Puebla, Mexico. She was a junk food vegetarian then and as she states in this video promo for her book, quite a drinker. Now, she hosts Issues on CNN and has really gotten her life together.

YouTube - iWant by Jane Velez-Mitchell

Another of her videos on animal rights and swine flu

YouTube - Jane Velez-Mitchell on Swine Flu

I have her book on order - can't wait.

G

bdc63 · #**116** 10-19-2009, 11:02 AM

I'm a raw organic vegan in-training (6 months and counting). Although I love animals, my journey did not start out for animal rights reasons.

I started down this path for health reasons. Its been said before, but I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Headaches almost every day, unable to sleep through the night, frequent heartburn, general fatigue, caught every cold and flu that went around, and general aches and pains that my 46 year old body shouldn't have. Then I had a real health scare, that I am now absolutely convinced was a response to the way I was eating. I don't want to take medications for the rest of my life, so I embarked on learning everything I could about holistic ways to address my issues.

I started out following Dr. Robert Young's 'The ph Miracle'. It's all about eating only foods that help to make your body more alkaline and less acidic. ph miracle followers believe that disease can only take hold in a body that is acidic. Alkaline foods are basically vegetables (raw or lightly cooked), beans, and goat cheese products. No fruit because of the sugar. And regular cleanse detox's are also required. Alcohol, coffee, wheat products ... all strickly forbidden.

Then I began understanding all the benefits of eating Raw, so for about a month I only ate things that fit into both RAW and Alkaline eating plans. Basically, raw vegetables. Talk about restictive ...

I've finally settled into an eating plan that I think I can live with. I eat 100% Organic/Raw/Vegan/Alcohol Free Monday thru lunch on Friday. I also try to do a one day juice cleanse each week. Then Friday dinner and over the weekend I cheat. So far cheating has only meant that I eat some cooked vegan, maybe have a morning coffee, and enough organic wine to make up for my abstenance during the week

(oh, and there was that no-holds-barred lobster binge I went on in Martha's Vineyard over the summer ... ). I haven't felt the need for a burger yet, but if I do I'll wait and have one on the weekend (I couldn't quite get my head around the idea of never having a burger again in my life).

Its hard. Actually very hard. And I absolutely wouldn't be doing it if I didn't see the health benefits. I made a list of 14 health complaints back when I first started on the ph miracle, and they are all GONE (except one or two, which are greatly improved). People are commenting that my skin glows. Its been months since I've felt the need to take an asprin for anything. I'm pleased to say that today I take no percription drugs. And I have a mental and physical clarity and stamina now that I'm not sure I can even explain (after my first 7 day cleanse I actually felt a constant vibration under my skin all over my body -- like I was "buzzing").

Anyway, that's my story (thanks to Gidget for pointing me in the direction of this thread - its been very inspiring for me). I'm hoping RAW catches on in a big way ... it would be nice to have a wider selection of restuarants to visit!

scooterbug44 · #**117** 10-19-2009, 02:04 PM

I don't doubt that you feel much better (as I totally think most of our health issues are due to poor nutrition, hydration, lack of exercise, and stress), but the raw diet is just too extreme and limiting for me.

There are a lot of foods that I love (and that are good for me in moderation) that don't fit into the Raw diet, but the real biggie for me (aside from my love of bacon, beef, and fresh fruit) is that many of the raw foods I have tried are rather yucky.

As it gains in popularity, hopefully I will find some yummy raw items to add to my diet (Jen has raw ice cream that I want to try), but that is the biggest issue for many IMO.

Bobby J · #**118** 10-19-2009, 04:29 PM

Great thread. Its all about diet it seems. I started keeping a journal and amazed at how I now notice what sets me off. Salt= headache. Raw is way too extreme for me but if I was down and out sick would probably attempt it over many other medications prescribed today.
I know people that would rather die then make the dietary changes it would take to make them better. Really sad. It reminds me of this song...
If you knew for a fact your diet was your problem would you make the change? Hmmmmm. Tough question to honestly ask yourself.

YouTube - Tracy Chapman - Change

bdc63 · #**119** 10-19-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby J

Salt= headache.

Have you tried Celtic Sea Salt yet? Its raw, organic, unprocessed, tastes great and is actually good for you.

Mortons is heated, processed, bleached and laced with additives -- it should be sold with a skull and cross bones on it.

Bobby J · #**120** 10-19-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdc63

Have you tried Celtic Sea Salt yet? Its raw, organic, unprocessed, tastes great and is actually good for you.

Mortons is heated, processed, bleached and laced with additives -- it should be sold with a skull and cross bones on it.

Yeah. I am good with sea salt. Its all the other places they sneak that stuff in. Popcorn at a movie theater will almost kill me. I read one time you would be better off eating 4 big macs then a small bag of popcorn at the theater! Crazy. Fried food is another one that kills me. I get dehydrated and a horrible Headache. I use to think all these things were just life and I was getting older. The more I have tuned my diet the more I have learned that whole feeling bad thing has more to do with my diet then aging or life. The cleaner I eat the younger I get. I guess when you are younger your filter just works better.

bdc63 · #**121** 10-20-2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

There are a lot of foods that I love (and that are good for me in moderation) that don't fit into the Raw diet, but the real biggie for me (aside from my love of bacon, beef, and fresh fruit) is that many of the raw foods I have tried are rather yucky.

Limiting and extreme ... yes.

Time consuming ... very.

But "yucky"? ... no way! Big salads full of veges-fruit-nuts with homemade dressings, fresh fruit (it was on the alkalizing ph diet that I couldn't eat fruit; vegans eat tons of fruit), gazpacho and other cold fresh soups, salsa, guacamole, tapenades, homemade muesli and granola, yummy "mylks" made from nuts and dates, vege wraps, slaws, smoothies/juices, organic wines and sake, and all kinds of desserts including raw ice creams, sorbets, cobblers, cookie bars, and tarts ... And raw foods retain their flavors (and nutrients) in a way that cooked foods just don't; that's why cooked foods need so much salt/spices and added fat -- to make them appetizing.

bdc63 · #**122** 10-20-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby J

I use to think all these things were just life and I was getting older. The more I have tuned my diet the more I have learned that whole feeling bad thing has more to do with my diet then aging or life. The cleaner I eat the younger I get. I guess when you are younger your filter just works better.

Very well said.

I followed an Alkalizing diet for awhile, and what they believe about disease and aging has really stuck with me. Basically what I remember from it is that every organ in your body has an optimal ph level that it should be at for perfect health. But the blood has a level that it must be at, or you die. So, if you eat the typical American acidic (actually, VERY acidic) diet, then your blood has to "steal" akalinity from other organs to maintain its required level, and ends up "dumping" the extra acidity into the organs it has stolen from. Over time the acidity build up in these other organs leads to all the illness and disease that is so prevalent in American society. They even believe that if you can get your body into the correct ph zone, that it becomes impossible to catch a cold or the flu.

They don't quite promise a fountain of youth, but if they are right and you could live the last 20 years of your life without making one or two trips a week to the doctor and taking handfulls of percription drugs every morning (like my in-laws currently do), then it becomes darn compelling.

mikecatadjuster · #**123** 10-20-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby J

Yeah. I am good with sea salt. Its all the other places they sneak that stuff in. Popcorn at a movie theater will almost kill me. I read one time you would be better off eating 4 big macs then a small bag of popcorn at the theater! Crazy. Fried food is another one that kills me. I get dehydrated and a horrible Headache. I use to think all these things were just life and I was getting older. The more I have tuned my diet the more I have learned that whole feeling bad thing has more to do with my diet then aging or life. The cleaner I eat the younger I get. I guess when you are younger your filter just works better.

This is a great thread. Bobby J, it is amazing how we can go through years of our life and not associate a consequence with an action. I feel so dumb when I finally do and think of all the wasted time. But the thing is, I know right now there are probably hundreds of little things like that I don't fully recognize.

I sometimes suffer from restless legs syndrome. It has been so bad that once I put myself to sleep while shaking my legs as rapidly as I could. If I wouldn't shake them, I would have gone crazy.

I kept a journal and found that salt consumption was the main factor for me. It's funny, I told my brother I didn't think I ate too much salt and he said, "Mike, you keep a salt shaker next to your chair." And he was right. I salted everything way too much.

Today, I am fasting. It is 4:30 and I'm still going. I want to go for a one day fast but wonder if I'll be able to get to sleep tonight. Then I'll go from there and maybe extend it slightly. I've read that the first day toxins are removed from your muscles and only after that does it begin working on your fat reserves.

I'm not doing this for weight reasons. I am already stone cold hot ;) But seriously, I did it recently and it is as if you get these insights. And it makes me realize that I eat out of habit and compulsion and often as a comforting thing. And it makes me think about what I am putting into my body.

I have a headache right now. I find it helps for me to be out of the house and busy. Earlier while hiking I came out along 30A and low and behold if I didn't think about going to Flip Flops for a burger before I caught myself.

Then I re-entered the woonds and saw a deer. Now that would be some lean eating. Oh, and I always hear about the health benefits of eating raw FRUITS and vegetables. That alkaline/acid thing sounds interesting. Apparently the results are favorable for you bdc63. Congratulations on that and salutes to you for your dedication. Sometimes we need to be against a wall to force a change. Maybe I can learn something from you. Thanks!

Bobby J · #**124** 10-20-2009, 06:05 PM

Wow Mike! My sister has that same restless leg thing. She loves salt. Did cutting back help?

Gidget · #**125** 10-20-2009, 06:17 PM

Also, check your caffeine intake.

Good luck! So happy people are associating ailments and disease with what goes in the body. I know I would suffer greatly if it weren't for awareness. Doesn't mean you can never have x, y or z - but what you do on a regular basis and when you eat with a conscience you just feel better. Our bodies are remarkable and when we abuse them, they let us know.

Try my favorite fall salad: (organic ingredients when possible)

Bowl of mixed spring mix salad greens, purple grapes, crisp apples with peel left on, raw walnuts, celery. Juice of one 1/2 orange and cut up the flesh of the other half of the orange. Use the juice as the dressing. Enjoy! This is a raw version of Waldorf Salad without the mayo. VERY clean tasting and oh so great this time of year what with apples and citrus coming in. The natural sodium in the celery is great for those who are active and need sodium but don't want to use the shaker.

G

mikecatadjuster · #**126** 10-20-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby J

Wow Mike! My sister has that same restless leg thing. She loves salt. Did cutting back help?

Yes, salt cutback helped. When I go back to Louisiana during crawfish season I swallow some salty crawdads but it has the affect on me. Before I found out some factors influencing the RLS I used Iron tablets to help which did offer relief.

But yes, have your sister google salt and RLS. I think I remember looking at it after and it was a theme.

bluecliff · #**127** 10-21-2009, 09:25 AM

I am committed to culitvating insight and compassion so that I may learn ways to protect the lives of people, animals, plants and minerals.

Eating meat is no longer relevant in our society, it is a thing of the past. Holding on to the concept that it is permissable for another living being to be murdered to fulfill our human addictions to meat , clothing, or any other part of our life, this way of life is completely out of date.
Breaking this kind of addiction is uncomfortable for us. We believe it will be to uncomfortable for the rest of our friends and family to be with us also, its easier to stick our head back in the sand.
No one wants to feel their heart break, the things that go on in our everyday life can be emotional enough without adding to it by being aware of the suffering we put our animals through for our own pleasure and continue to put them through because of our own fear.
Anyone who has given up participating in this kind of animal murder, animal cruelty is a brave soul, and a teacher of great compassion. It makes me feel so good to know there are people in my community that are not afraid to look deeply into this subject, not afraid to keep their heart open and state their awareness of animals deep suffering and their inability to use their own voices to protect themselves.

Geo · #**128** 10-21-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluecliff

I am committed to culitvating insight and compassion so that I may learn ways to protect the lives of people, animals, plants and minerals.

Eating meat is no longer relevant in our society, it is a thing of the past. Holding on to the concept that it is permissable for another living being to be murdered to fulfill our human addictions to meat , clothing, or any other part of our life, this way of life is completely out of date.
Breaking this kind of addiction is uncomfortable for us. We believe it will be to uncomfortable for the rest of our friends and family to be with us also, its easier to stick our head back in the sand.
No one wants to feel their heart break, the things that go on in our everyday life can be emotional enough without adding to it by being aware of the suffering we put our animals through for our own pleasure and continue to put them through because of our own fear.
Anyone who has given up participating in this kind of animal murder, animal cruelty is a brave soul, and a teacher of great compassion. It makes me feel so good to know there are people in my community that are not afraid to look deeply into this subject, not afraid to keep their heart open and state their awareness of animals deep suffering and their inability to use their own voices to protect themselves.

I respect your opinion and admire your passion. But when you say eating meat is no longer relevant and a thing of the past I hope you are presenting your view of the way things could/should be, your goal, your utopia. Because the reality is that meat is still the norm, the standard, the convention. It is still quite relevant and perceived to be necessary.

I am personally conflicted because I am an animal lover. The videos of slaughter houses break my heart. But I eat meat and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon. I believe that it is a natural thing to eat meat. For as long as humans have existed they have eaten meat. Let's not forget- we are animals (albeit evolved ones).

I think we could all make a difference if we spent our resources promoting the humane treatment and killing (yes- I see the irony/oxymoron here) of cows, pigs, chickens, etc. because the practice of eating meat isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'd imagine it'll take another century, if not more.

Two cents, G

Susan Horn · #**129** 10-21-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecatadjuster

This is a great thread. Bobby J, it is amazing how we can go through years of our life and not associate a consequence with an action. I feel so dumb when I finally do and think of all the wasted time. But the thing is, I know right now there are probably hundreds of little things like that I don't fully recognize.

I sometimes suffer from restless legs syndrome. It has been so bad that once I put myself to sleep while shaking my legs as rapidly as I could. If I wouldn't shake them, I would have gone crazy.

I kept a journal and found that salt consumption was the main factor for me. It's funny, I told my brother I didn't think I ate too much salt and he said, "Mike, you keep a salt shaker next to your chair." And he was right. I salted everything way too much.

Today, I am fasting. It is 4:30 and I'm still going. I want to go for a one day fast but wonder if I'll be able to get to sleep tonight. Then I'll go from there and maybe extend it slightly. I've read that the first day toxins are removed from your muscles and only after that does it begin working on your fat reserves.

I'm not doing this for weight reasons. I am already stone cold hot ;) But seriously, I did it recently and it is as if you get these insights. And it makes me realize that I eat out of habit and compulsion and often as a comforting thing. And it makes me think about what I am putting into my body.

I have a headache right now. I find it helps for me to be out of the house and busy. Earlier while hiking I came out along 30A and low and behold if I didn't think about going to Flip Flops for a burger before I caught myself.

Then I re-entered the woonds and saw a deer. Now that would be some lean eating. Oh, and I always hear about the health benefits of eating raw FRUITS and vegetables. That alkaline/acid thing sounds interesting. Apparently the results are favorable for you bdc63. Congratulations on that and salutes to you for your dedication. Sometimes we need to be against a wall to force a change. Maybe I can learn something from you. Thanks!

Just wanted to say thanks for sharing all this. I probably need to start up my periodic fasting as well. Are you doing water only? Liquids only? ...I saw 3 young deer on the south side of 30A last night on the way home. So beautiful.

bluecliff · #**130** 10-21-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo

I respect your opinion and admire your passion. But when you say eating meat is no longer relevant and a thing of the past I hope you are presenting your view of the way things could/should be, your goal, your utopia. Because the reality is that meat is still the norm, the standard, the convention. It is still quite relevant and perceived to be necessary.

I am personally conflicted because I am an animal lover. The videos of slaughter houses break my heart. But I eat meat and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon. I believe that it is a natural thing to eat meat. For as long as humans have existed they have eaten meat. Let's not forget- we are animals (albeit evolved ones).

I think we could all make a difference if we spent our resources promoting the humane treatment and killing (yes- I see the irony/oxymoron here) of cows, pigs, chickens, etc. because the practice of eating meat isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'd imagine it'll take another century, if not more.

Two cents, G

Thanks for replying on that thread. you gave me some interesting things to contemplate!
When I say that eating meat is no longer relevant and a thing of the past i mean that the majority of us do not need meat as life sustaining food, unless you may have some medical reasons. I understand what your saying about humans eating meat as long as there has been civilization but now it is much easier for us to acquire food, we go down to the grocery store and we have many choices. It is the norm for us to eat meat, this is how we are raised, most of us. We are human animals, but there are other animals who live on vegetation alone. You are so right about putting our time and energy into reducing the cruelty in these factories, this is very important. And also to look into where you are purchasing your meat from so that possibly we have more humaine choices. I have found even at Publix that if we ask for a particular product sometimes they can get it, but we still have to be aware that sometime organic does not mean cruelty free.
There are a lot of things throughout are lifetime as human beings that have fallen away due to awareness of our ignorance, we now know
that smoking is a health hazard, something most of us were not aware of 60 years ago. But even though so many of us know that we continue to do it. I smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day for 20 years, i knew it was bad for me, I knew it was not setting a good example for my kids , why did I do it, because smoking even today is still socially acceptable, and also I was addicted, phisically, mentally and emotionally.
I think a lot of us are the same way with meat, and just food in general. We use it to temporarly make us feel better, and most of the time do so with the knowledge that we are only creating more addiction in ourselves and families.
You are right, in a utopia it would be completely irrelevant and probably against the law to consume other living beings, especially by the torcherous ends they meet. It may never happen.
When we are lost in the forest we use the north star to guide us out. We are not trying to get to the north star, we are only moving in that direction.
The deeper we pennitrate this topic the more awareness we bring to ourselves and our society.
I can tell that this is something you are looking into deeply, and I can tell that it has brought you a lot of awareness.
It would be wonderful if like you, like me, and many others, more people we able to open their heart to this topic.
The main word I really liked that you used in your comment was "perceived"
It is our perception as a society that eating meat is normal, and valid.
The question is where did these perceptions come from, when were these perception passed on to us,do we want to allow the perceptions of our ancestors to continue dictating how we live our life in our modern era, why do we consider these perceptions still relevant, everything is moving, everything is changing, our perceptions must go in the direction of movement as well,and lastly we need to ask ourselves are these the the perceptions that we ourselves, we as our society want to put our signiture on.

bluecliff · #**131** 10-21-2009, 12:25 PM

As if I did rattle on enough......
I wanted to mention something really cool that my 8 year old son does.
I do not in force my vegan belief on him, i let him make his own decisions to what he eats. Most of the time he chooses a vegetarian food selection anyway.
But he does love chicken fingers and fried shrimp!
So when we go to golden corral he usually cant resist the shrimp!

He has developed a beautiful practice when he does eat meat.
when he eats meat, he is aware that he is eating meat.
It is that simple. He mindfully eats his meat, instead of just popping whatever into his mouth without thinking about it.

Sometime he says, thank you for giving your life to me so that I can eat little shrimp, I hope you did not have to suffer to much because of it.
This is something all of us can do when we eat, know what we are eating and appreciate where it came from and the life it lived.

It only takes a second to look at our food and appreciate it, and is especially a nice practice to use when eating meat.

Bobby J · #**132** 10-21-2009, 01:15 PM

I have discovered that the whole meat thing for weight loss is over rated and inaccurate. People are lead to believe they need meat through heavy marketing and advertising. I am in an intense training program and currently eating meat as I was concerned that my "protein" level would not let me get as cut as I would like to get. It is not working like the last time I did this training and was vegetarian. I loss a lot more weight and was more cut on a vegetarian diet. I actually found I had a lot more energy. I think the secret for us all is moderation and being aware of where our meat is coming from. I also am always amazed how defensive people get when you start talking about not eating meat or the harmful effects the meat industry has on society. For me personally, my health is better when I steer clear of it. Hope to make the switch again soon. Like many addictions it is hard to just abruptly stop.

Beach Runner · #**133** 10-21-2009, 01:34 PM

I am on the Sustainability Council at the institution where I teach. One of the activities that was planned for the nationwide Campus Sustainability Day today was serving only vegetarian food in the cafeteria today at lunch. It went over well. The place was packed, and the students really seemed to like it.

scooterbug44 · #**134** 10-21-2009, 02:06 PM

I think one of the reasons they push protein for weight loss is it makes people feel "full" longer.....................and steers them away from other bad foods.

Bobby J · #**135** 10-21-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterbug44

I think one of the reasons they push protein for weight loss is it makes people feel "full" longer.....................and steers them away from other bad foods.

But... we all exceed the amount of meat we should eat which then crosses into another area of actually being bad for you. I should say personally, that is my problem. Have you ever looked at what a portion is on some of this?

scooterbug44 · #**136** 10-21-2009, 03:05 PM

Yep - anywhere from 1/2 to 1/5 of the smallest portion you can order at most restaurants.

I can't order a burger smaller than 1/3 of a pound anywhere in Sowal..........and we wonder why America has a weight problem.

elgordoboy · #**137** 10-22-2009, 12:36 AM

This is not trolling. My personal requirements at present are 16 oz's of meat daily, at a minimum. I try to eat a pound of leafy greens too but sometimes can't get that down. I round out the caloric needs with cream or butter, a bit of cheese, or a spoonful or three of coconut oil. I have lost a fair bit of weight on chicken wings and rendered bits of crispy beef fat. I look and feel better than I have since High School. I strongly encourage the reading of

Amazon.com: Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health (Vintage) (9781400033461): Gary Taubes: Books
Amazon.com: Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health (Vintage) (9781400033461): Gary Taubes: Books

for what some might find an interesting point of view.

bdc63 · #**138** 10-23-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgordoboy

This is not trolling. My personal requirements at present are 16 oz's of meat daily, at a minimum. I try to eat a pound of leafy greens too but sometimes can't get that down. I round out the caloric needs with cream or butter, a bit of cheese, or a spoonful or three of coconut oil. I have lost a fair bit of weight on chicken wings and rendered bits of crispy beef fat. I look and feel better than I have since High School. I strongly encourage the reading of Amazon.com: Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health (Vintage) (9781400033461): Gary Taubes: Books for what some might find an interesting point of view.

Somewhere out there is a cardiologist reading this post and feeling reassured he'll be able to afford his new 7 Series BMW next year ...

elgordoboy · #**139** 10-24-2009, 12:55 AM

I refuse to pick up the gauntlet you have thrown down and will refrain from mentioning that "somewhere out there is a proctologist reading this post and feeling reassured that he'll be able to afford blah blah" (by performing "removing heads from butts" operations, in case the meaning of what I am too mature to say is not clear)

Gidget · #**140** 10-24-2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgordoboy

I refuse to pick up the gauntlet you have thrown down and will refrain from mentioning that "somewhere out there is a proctologist reading this post and feeling reassured that he'll be able to afford blah blah" (by performing "removing heads from butts" operations, in case the meaning of what I am too mature to say is not clear)

Interesting. One of my sons was vegan for years and now eats a diet very similar to yours. He eats grass fed beef only though = nothing from Walmart. (see below and if you are eating lots of meat I suggest you look into purchasing it from For The Health of It (they have grass fed) or order it online - I can give you a link. Back to my son. He doesn't eat dairy because we did not evolve with dairy and he is looking for a more paleo type diet but without lots of fruit (Paleo Diet advocates lots of fruit) - he eats around 60 grams of carbohydrates a day (not 60 carbs) and he also eats green veggies. His weight is perfect, he looks like a million bucks, he has no digestive difficulties and he is having all of his bloodwork done Monday so I can give a full report. Now, do I think this is sustainable for the entire world? No. But I know that not everyone will be vegan - I do suggest at least once a week being vegan (not junk food vegan either) - and I highly think everyone who eats any animal products to remember how this thread was started. It was started because of inhumane treatment of animals. Peace begins on our plates and I think we have a moral obligation to treat animals far far better than we do.

Here's more on grass fed beef - if one chooses to eat beef:

Feeding grain to cattle has got to be one of the dumbest ideas in the history of western civilization. Cows, sheep, and other grazing animals are endowed with the ability to convert grasses, which those of us who possess only one stomach cannot digest, into food that we can digest. They can do this because they are ruminants, which is to say that they possess a rumen, a 45 or so gallon (in the case of cows) fermentation tank in which resident bacteria convert cellulose into protein and fats.
Traditionally, all beef was grassfed beef, but in the United States today what is commercially available is almost all feedlot beef. The reason? It’s faster, and so more profitable. Seventy-five years ago, steers were 4 or 5 years old at slaughter. Today, they are 14 or 16 months. You can’t take a beef calf from a birth weight of 80 pounds to 1,200 pounds in a little more than a year on grass. It takes enormous quantities of corn, protein supplements, antibiotics and other drugs, including growth hormones.
Switching a cow from grass to grain is so disturbing to the animal’s digestive system that it can kill the animal if not done gradually and if the animal is not continually fed antibiotics. These animals are designed to forage, but we make them eat grain, primarily corn, in order to make them as fat as possible as fast as possible. Author and small-scale cattleman Michael Pollan wrote recently in the New York Times about what happens to cows when they are taken off of pastures and put into feedlots and fed grain:

“Perhaps the most serious thing that can go wrong with a ruminant on corn is feedlot bloat. The rumen is always producing copious amounts of gas, which is normally expelled by belching during rumination. But when the diet contains too much starch and too little roughage, rumination all but stops, and a layer of foamy slime that can trap gas forms in the rumen. The rumen inflates like a balloon, pressing against the animal’s lungs. Unless action is promptly taken to relieve the pressure (usually by forcing a hose down the animal’s esophagus), the cow suffocates.
A corn diet can also give a cow acidosis. Unlike that in our own highly acidic stomachs, the normal pH of a rumen is neutral. Corn makes it unnaturally acidic, however, causing a kind of bovine heartburn, which in some cases can kill the animal but usually just makes it sick. Acidotic animals go off their feed, pant and salivate excessively, paw at their bellies and eat dirt. The condition can lead to diarrhea, ulcers, bloat, liver disease and a general weakening of the immune system that leaves the animal vulnerable to everything from pneumonia to feedlot polio.”

All this is not only unnatural and dangerous for the cows. It also has profound consequences for us. Feedlot beef as we know it today would be impossible if it weren’t for the routine and continual feeding of antibiotics to these animals. This leads directly and inexorably to the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. These are the new “superbugs” that are increasingly rendering our “miracle drugs” ineffective.
As well, it is the commercial meat industry’s practice of keeping cattle in feedlots and feeding them grain that is responsible for the heightened prevalence of E. coli 0157:H7 bacteria. When cattle are grainfed, their intestinal tracts become far more acidic, which favors the growth of pathogenic E. coli bacteria, which in turn kills people who eat undercooked hamburger. E. coli 0157:H7 has only recenty appeared on the scene. First isolated in the 1980s, this pathogen is now found in the intestines of most U.S. feedlot cattle. The practice of feeding corn and other grains to cattle has created the perfect conditions for microbes to come into being that can harm and kill us. As Michael Pollan explains:

“Most of the microbes that reside in the gut of a cow and find their way into our food get killed off by the acids in our stomachs, since they originally adapted to live in a neutral-pH environment. But the digestive tract of the modern feedlot cow is closer in acidity to our own, and in this new, manmade environment acid-resistant strains of E. coli have developed that can survive our stomach acids — and go on to killl us. By acidifying a cow’s gut with corn, we have broken down one of our food chain’s barriers to infections.”

Many of us think of “corn-fed” beef as nutritionally superior, but it isn’t. A cornfed cow does develop well-marbled flesh, but this is simply saturated fat that can’t be trimmed off. Grassfed meat, on the other hand, is lower both in overall fat and in artery-clogging saturated fat. A sirloin steak from a grainfed feedlot steer has more than double the total fat of a similar cut from a grassfed steer. In its less-than-infinite wisdom, however, the USDA continues to grade beef in a way that rewards marbling with intra-muscular fat. Grassfed beef not only is lower in overall fat and in saturated fat, but it has the added advantage of providing more omega-3 fats. These crucial healthy fats are most plentiful in flaxseeds and fish, and are also found in walnuts, soybeans and in meat from animals that have grazed on omega-3 rich grass. When cattle are taken off grass, though, and shipped to a feedlot to be fattened on grain, they immediately begin losing the omega-3s they have stored in their tissues. As a consequence, the meat from feedlot animals typically contains only 15- 50 percent as much omega-3s as that from grassfed livestock.

So see why it is very important to purchase meat that is grass fed. Or, get it from your local hunter.

Lastly, this heart warming article is a must read for all of us - vegans, meat eaters, breatharians (LOL - I swear there are some who say they "live" on air!

)

The Pig Farmer - Healthy at 100 ::: by John Robbins

If you read it, tell me how you liked it.

Thanks

G

Gidget · #**141** 10-24-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgordoboy

This is not trolling. My personal requirements at present are 16 oz's of meat daily, at a minimum. I try to eat a pound of leafy greens too but sometimes can't get that down. I round out the caloric needs with cream or butter, a bit of cheese, or a spoonful or three of coconut oil. I have lost a fair bit of weight on chicken wings and rendered bits of crispy beef fat. I look and feel better than I have since High School. I strongly encourage the reading of Amazon.com: Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health (Vintage) (9781400033461): Gary Taubes: Books for what some might find an interesting point of view.

Have you read Trick and Treat by Barry Groves? It is one of my sons favorites but highly controversial. Meat meat meat! He doesn't agree of course with all that Barry says (and man, I sure don't) but basically I think it is very similar to the book you are talking about.

G

elgordoboy · #**142** 10-24-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gidget

Have you read Trick and Treat by Barry Groves? It is one of my sons favorites but highly controversial. Meat meat meat! He doesn't agree of course with all that Barry says (and man, I sure don't) but basically I think it is very similar to the book you are talking about.

G

I have not read that and I agree about For The Health of it. Being curious about the White Oaks grass fed beef for a year or so (amongst other brands as well) that FTHOI recently began carrying I bought two NY strips and was very pleased. I enjoy vegetables too much to give them up, luckily for me I do not have to choose one or the other, though I support everyone's decision to do what they feel right for themselves.

aleonard · #**143** 10-24-2009, 10:30 PM

[quote=elgordoboy;621324]I have not read that and I agree about For The Health of it. Being curious about the White Oaks grass fed beef for a year or so (amongst other brands as well) that FTHOI recently began carrying I bought two NY strips and was very pleased. I enjoy vegetables too much to give them up, luckily for me I do not have to choose one or the other, though I support everyone's decision to do what they feel right for themselves.[/quote]

Some do not process carbs as well as others, I being one of those people. I have read that many with native American backgrounds become insulin resistant with the typical American diet. Too much fruit and my blood sugar starts going whack. I have to work hard to strike a balance with what helps me feel better. I'm very interested in the grass fed beef, as well.

I agree with Gordy and Gidget, if you want respect for the way you choose to eat, you might start respecting the ways others choose to eat.

Bobby J · #**144** 10-25-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleonard

Too much fruit and my blood sugar starts going whack. I have to work hard to strike a balance with what helps me feel better. I'm very interested in the grass fed beef, as well.
.

I have that blood sugar problem before and had success actually only eating fruit until noon. Did it for a few months and my blood sugar stabilized. My sugar level has remained stable unless i dip into too much java. Then it really whacks out.

aleonard · #**145** 10-25-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby J

I have that blood sugar problem before and had success actually only eating fruit until noon. Did it for a few months and my blood sugar stabilized. My sugar level has remained stable unless i dip into too much java. Then it really whacks out.

Some studies are showing that java pushes more insulin production, which in turn will drop your blood sugar like a rock. I'm ok with things like organic apples, but I need a little almond or peanut butter on them if that's gonna be breakfast. When I stay with two cups of coffee or less and go green tea( which is being shown to help damper insulin production in people like me) I do much better.

Susan Horn · #**146** 10-26-2009, 09:46 AM

Loving the conversation here, all the information from richly diverse sources. Thanks, everybody.

I have recently been advised to include a small amount of solid animal protein with my fruit or vegetable in the mornings (I had always had just fruit too, till mid morning or lunch). About one egg, or equivalent protein as cheese, chicken, etc. Am also supposed to have similar amount of animal protein at lunch, and limit starchy foods, even complex carbs like legumes and whole grains. Save those for dinner, I'm told. Also, stay away from soy because it messes with thyroid (had no idea; soy was a staple for years). If I want a snack, include a bit of protein....

So I've been trying this new approach to eating for a few weeks, and am still dialing in how to do it since it is very different from what I'm used to. But it is amazing how much my energy has leveled out through the day. A lot of it comes down, I think, to portion size, and obviously, blood sugar.

Yoga helps me too, with the energy balancing....

Gidget · #**147** 10-26-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby J

I have that blood sugar problem before and had success actually only eating fruit until noon. Did it for a few months and my blood sugar stabilized. My sugar level has remained stable unless i dip into too much java. Then it really whacks out.

Anyone with blood sugar levels that are out of whack would be wise to give up caffeine. Amazing how so many do not make that connection and blame certain foods though. Caffeine can really do a number on blood sugar. Glad you made the connection.

G

Gidget · #**148** 10-26-2009, 10:12 AM

[quote=aleonard;621330]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgordoboy

I have not read that and I agree about For The Health of it. Being curious about the White Oaks grass fed beef for a year or so (amongst other brands as well) that FTHOI recently began carrying I bought two NY strips and was very pleased. I enjoy vegetables too much to give them up, luckily for me I do not have to choose one or the other, though I support everyone's decision to do what they feel right for themselves.[/quote]

Some do not process carbs as well as others, I being one of those people. I have read that many with native American backgrounds become insulin resistant with the typical American diet. Too much fruit and my blood sugar starts going whack. I have to work hard to strike a balance with what helps me feel better. I'm very interested in the grass fed beef, as well.

I agree with Gordy and Gidget, if you want respect for the way you choose to eat, you might start respecting the ways others choose to eat.

Just in case FTHOI is out or limited in their selection or if you want to go bulk (which may be possible through them as well) here's the link for the grass fed beef my son eats.

Slanker's Grass-Fed Meats

Also, he has gotten bison and pork. I believe they have chicken too that are given the freedom to scratch in the dust and eat BUGS! Totally different animal when raised this way. Now, it is not "organic" but in my book it is good enough - no hormones or antibiotics and the animals are allowed to roam free. (btw, cage free on cartons of eggs in Walmart is a joke (there is no legal definition of “cage-free,” and a cage-free hen is not necessarily a free hen running about a pasture. Often, cage-free hens are running around crowded barns, with little or no access to the outdoors.) But you can be confident in the local eggs sold at FTHOI. Those chickens have a great life.

I am reading iWant by my old roommate Jane Velez Mitchell. (anchor of Issues on CNN's HLN) She is a huge animal rights advocate. She was part of the passage of Prop 2 in CA in 08. And here's what they wanted:

Farm animals MUST have the room to stretch their limbs, turn around and lie down.

Can you imagine your dog not being able to stretch, turn around or lie down!!! Same thing goes for a pig or a cow or a chicken. The factory farm industry spent millions of dollars trying to defeat this modest proposal to treat farm animals with basic decency. That says LOADS about factory farming.

So when we buy bacon or eggs or steak from the usual sources, that is what we are supporting.

G

Susan Horn · #**149** 10-26-2009, 11:47 AM

Twin Oaks Farms (at Seaside Farmer's Market every Saturday) sells free range pastured chickens that only receive organic feed; also they have eggs laid by these happy chickens, and duck eggs too. We were there for Farm Day yestertday, building an herb spiral, and you never saw so many happy free chickens. They have free roaming every day of almost 100 acres of pasture. Those eggs and chickens taste so much better than the usual kind, even the organic kind you can buy in grocery stores.

I think FTHOI sells Twin Oaks eggs...

Bobby J · #**150** 10-26-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gidget

Anyone with blood sugar levels that are out of whack would be wise to give up caffeine. Amazing how so many do not make that connection and blame certain foods though. Caffeine can really do a number on blood sugar. Glad you made the connection.

G

I made the connection years ago but struggle with the disconnection.

Gave up alcohol 10 years ago and java became my social connection. "My drug of choice." I am trying to get my head ready for the disconnect.

Susan Horn · #**151** 10-26-2009, 02:29 PM

I have given up caffeine twice already (babyhaving era) and got hooked again. I don't even aspire to try to quit anytime soon, because the headache I get when decaffeinating is beyond incapacitating, for DAYS, even if I get down to half a cup of tea or less per day before quitting. The tiredness is nothing compared to the headache for me.

Maybe there are acupuncture therapies or something that could help me with this, when I'm ready....BJ, know of any tricks like that?

Gidget · #**152** 10-26-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susan Horn

I have given up caffeine twice already (babyhaving era) and got hooked again. I don't even aspire to try to quit anytime soon, because the headache I get when decaffeinating is beyond incapacitating, for DAYS, even if I get down to half a cup of tea or less per day before quitting. The tiredness is nothing compared to the headache for me.

Maybe there are acupuncture therapies or something that could help me with this, when I'm ready....BJ, know of any tricks like that?

I can do caffeine once in a blue moon but any more than that and I might get hooked again. When I stopped I SLOWLY stopped. I drank 3/4's of a cup, then 1/2 of a cup and slowly graduated off of it.

Best thing I could have done. Gave up booze many many years ago. For me, it works. I know others enjoy their wine, etc... and that's great, but I just prefer my brain uncluttered by any stimulant or depressant. I had enough of that in college LOL!

Yes, FTHOI has Twin Oaks eggs! Saw them there! You can't go wrong if you eat eggs to get them there! Happy Chickens make Happy Eggs!

G

scooterbug44 · #**153** 10-26-2009, 03:04 PM

I love Renee's eggs - they really do taste better than the supermarket eggs. (I have been conducting tests w/ them vs. Publix eggs)

.

Gidget · #**154** 10-26-2009, 04:11 PM

Glad you like them scooter!

One of the most inhumane practices for chickens is debeaking. Twin Oaks does NOT do this barbaric act. Most all other egg producers, even "cage free" do. Egg Production - Debeaking Poultry: Facts that people should know, poultry, free-range, eggs, chickens, hens, battery, debeaking, molting, force molt, animal rights, compassion, vegetarians SICKAMUNDO

Susan Horn · #**155** 10-27-2009, 08:54 AM

Can't remember if I already posted this link on sowal or not.... feature length film about food production--history, current and as title suggests, future.....

Hulu - The Future Of Food - Watch the full feature film now.

Gidget · #**156** 11-01-2009, 08:37 AM

Fall reminds me of one of my favorite vegan raw dishes I make. My signature "Possum Parfait" made with persimmons and banana raw ice cream.

I love it so much and it is so beautiful!

G

Tootsie · #**157** 11-01-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby J

I made the connection years ago but struggle with the disconnection.

Gave up alcohol 10 years ago and java became my social connection. "My drug of choice." I am trying to get my head ready for the disconnect.

caffeine is the best drug ever. why give it up? just try to limit your coffee to a few cups a day. and switch to decaf ice tea (luzianne) with a tad of sugar (real sugar). I LOVE real coffee.. so I do decaf tea and that way I can drink it at night.

I have actually heard positive reports about coffee in the last few years. in moderation of course. and with a little food - don't skip breakfast.

Bobby J · #**158** 11-01-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tootsie

caffeine is the best drug ever. why give it up? just try to limit your coffee to a few cups a day. and switch to decaf ice tea (luzianne) with a tad of sugar (real sugar). I LOVE real coffee.. so I do decaf tea and that way I can drink it at night.

I have actually heard positive reports about coffee in the last few years. in moderation of course. and with a little food - don't skip breakfast.

My personality does not allow for much moderation. One of the best studies I ever read about coffee concluded with: If it bothers you, don't drink it. If it doesn't, enjoy. I think after much study it messes with my blood sugar. If I can do a cup a day I probably would but I can not seem to be moderate with any drug or drink so my resolution is to just remove it as an option. I hope one day my behavior changes and I can function like normal society.

roy hardi · #**159** 11-02-2009, 06:25 AM

Bobby, what is normal society? J

Gidget · #**160** 11-02-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby J

My personality does not allow for much moderation. One of the best studies I ever read about coffee concluded with: If it bothers you, don't drink it. If it doesn't, enjoy. I think after much study it messes with my blood sugar. If I can do a cup a day I probably would but I can not seem to be moderate with any drug or drink so my resolution is to just remove it as an option. I hope one day my behavior changes and I can function like normal society.

That is SO me when it comes to caffeine. Seriously, if I were to drink a full cup of coffee right now (7am) I would not be able to sleep well and my blood sugar would suffer. No matter what the diet. I can feel it for hours and hours. On rare occasion I'll still have an iced tea at lunch. I never had a serious coffee addiction - never even owned a coffee maker lol. So perhaps it is tolerance. My body never learned to tolerate it. Now my sister claims she can fall asleep while drinking coffee but she has ALWAYS been a coffee drinker. I guess it is great to listen to our own bodies.

Enjoy your coffee Tootsie

this is the weather for it!!

Oh I will say that when we were in Costa Rica we did have 1/2 decaf and 1/2 real coffee (never finished the cup) at bfast. HUGE bfast btw. Then we ran around doing a million things all day. That was the most coffee I've ever had and it was a real bodily experience lol!!

A real HIGH! Perhaps it was the mountain air and all....

Gidget · #**161** 11-02-2009, 08:52 AM

New book out

Eating Animals

Amazon.com: Eating Animals (9780316069908): Jonathan Safran Foer: Books

Gidget · #**162** 11-05-2009, 03:58 PM

Latest video of where your meat comes from if you purchase meat that is not humanely treated. PLEASE watch. If you eat meat you owe it to the animals to watch. If you can't watch then become a vegan.

If this were a video about dogs and cats everyone would watch and demand justice and change. These baby calves are no different.

Purchase your meat from sources who do not carry out these barbaric acts.

Gidget

More Video of Abused Calves at Vermont Slaughter Plant | The Humane Society of the United States

scooterbug44 · #**163** 11-05-2009, 04:32 PM

I know better than to look at those links - still traumatized about debeaking!

Gidget, I think they are showing Food Inc at Mountain Film!

Gidget · #**164** 11-05-2009, 05:24 PM

Mountain Film? Not sure where that is.

Oh and I finished iWant by Jane if you still want to read it. I am sure we can figure out some way to get it to you.

G

scooterbug44 · #**165** 11-05-2009, 05:37 PM

It's the outdoor independent film festival from Telluride that's at Watercolor this weekend - AMAZING!!!

aleonard · #**166** 11-05-2009, 07:55 PM

Are there any local farmers that raise humane, grass fed beef in our area? I'm finding it harder and harder to eat meat, but I don't think I'm ready to become a vegan, yet. I've never been able to stomach veal and I'm not a great chef. I usually grill or roast any meat that I cook.

Gidget · #**167** 11-06-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleonard

Are there any local farmers that raise humane, grass fed beef in our area? I'm finding it harder and harder to eat meat, but I don't think I'm ready to become a vegan, yet. I've never been able to stomach veal and I'm not a great chef. I usually grill or roast any meat that I cook.

Talk to For the Health of It and Renee also. And remember, consuming dairy supports the veal industry so if you consume dairy try hard to get it from the best sources and try to have vegan a few nights a week. That helps A LOT. The wonderful brochure I used to leaflet on campuses, "Even If You Eat Meat" shows that there's lots a person can do besides going vegan 100% of the time. I smell change and people are not going to stand for this type of treatment.

Also, search for internet sources for humanely raised meats and dairy. Slankers is one who does a pretty good job. Slanker's Grass-Fed Meats

They are not 100% perfect, but beats the heck out of the standard raised and slaughtered animal. PLUS the benefits of grassfed for the animal as well as the human.

Good luck!!! Thanks for responding to the video.

GIDGET

aleonard · #**168** 11-07-2009, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gidget

Talk to For the Health of It and Renee also. And remember, consuming dairy supports the veal industry so if you consume dairy try hard to get it from the best sources and try to have vegan a few nights a week. That helps A LOT. The wonderful brochure I used to leaflet on campuses, "Even If You Eat Meat" shows that there's lots a person can do besides going vegan 100% of the time. I smell change and people are not going to stand for this type of treatment.

Also, search for internet sources for humanely raised meats and dairy. Slankers is one who does a pretty good job. Slanker's Grass-Fed Meats

They are not 100% perfect, but beats the heck out of the standard raised and slaughtered animal. PLUS the benefits of grassfed for the animal as well as the human.

Good luck!!! Thanks for responding to the video.

GIDGET

Not my CHEESE, Gidget..............

I love cheese and it loves me........agh.

Gidget · #**169** 11-07-2009, 09:15 AM

I know, I love cheese and it was a huge thing giving it up (I have had some when eating out on rare occasion) Now, I hardly miss it at all. I just don't like the concept of what happens to baby male calves at dairy farms and that image comes to mind when I see cheese. I don't know about the case with locally produced cheeses or goat cheeses - might be a whole different scene going on.

I'd be curious to know what others might know about this. In other words, do all cheeses/dairy support the veal industry? I know that there are veal producers who no longer crate the little guys in, and that's a step in the right direction. However, people complain that due to the fact that the calves can "move" their meat isn't as tender. Boo hoo.

One thing for sure, I can not stomach soy cheese. Gross stuff IMO. Especially if you buy the kind that has NO casein in it. If it has casein in it - then it has dairy - they just don't like to tell you that casein is a milk protein.

G