I was just thinking it would be better trying to save one of them than just plucking them out of the ground with a backhoe and tossing them into some pile.
It is very sad. I am glad Cube McGee (Developer of Seagrove) is not here to see. It would make him very upset. He loved Seagrove with the oak trees and always tried to save them.
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We were going to transplant a mature tree when a tornado split my Grandmother's pecan tree; it costs a fortune and is risky that the root ball system will survive. With some oaks, the root system is sprawling. I have a Water Oak now and the root system is as large as the canopy. But, this article does state that the Coastal Live Oaks can tolerate construction around its roots. Those were gorgeous trees. I personally would prefer that corner exactly as it was, but since that obviously isn't the case, I am wishing the owners well.
Transplanting a mature tree probably costs a fortune.
So what? You can't put a $$ on everything. Some things are worth more than money.
No one is asking you, or anyone else, to pay for it. But, someone might have been willing if given the chance.
It does not matter what it costs, if someone is willing to do it. The cost to the soul of an area to simply cut down 150 year old trees is -- in the long term -- much more expensive.
Quote:
"How can you buy or sell the sky--the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us. We do not own the freshness of the air or the sparkle of the water. How can you buy them from us?...We know that the white man does not understand our way. One portion of the land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs..."
Chief Seattle.
__________________
"Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do." — Wendell Berry
A tree spade like the one below has been used around here a few times for relatively small trees. There is a 10-inch trunk limit for the size tree that can be moved. The ones at Seagrove Market would have been much too large with giant and complex root systems.
Sorry, Kurt, I disagree. I lived in Tallahassee for years--where there is a serious tree ordinance--no one can cut trees without special permission. I have seen Florida State University and others save and transplant very large trees.
Environmental Design has no limitations when it comes to transplanting giant trees. We have transplanted numerous giant trees well in excess of 1 million pounds, including the world's largest tree ever relocated.
__________________
"Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do." — Wendell Berry
Last edited by Glenda Wood; 03-14-2010 at 09:50 AM.
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I do not blame the owners for wanting the "highest and best use" for their property. I know traditions die hard and change can be tough, but progress continues. All good things come to an end and all good things have a beginning.
Bulldozing dunes, polluting coastal dune lakes, and clear cutting forests are crimes - the passing of a Seagrove landmark and a few pretty oaks pale in comparison. All things in this life are impermanent.
Kurt, with all due respect and I mean that, it is as though you are saying that those of us who love the Market and have made some wonderful memories there should not feel so bad about it going away because newer and better things will take it's place. Well, I do feel sad, and bad. Yes, all things change in the name of progress I suppose, but that will not change how I feel.
Just because I am sad that beautiful OLD LIVE trees have been destroyed for the sake of progress, does not mean that I care less about the polluting of coastal dune lakes, or the clear cutting of forests or bulldozing dunes. I understand the severity of those crimes. To me I think it is a crime to kill those old trees at the Market. I just wish they could have somehow been incorporated into the new establishment.
I also, do not know the owners of the new "V". I am sure they are wonderful people and I am sure they want their new business to succeed. I wish them well. I do.
I will however, forever miss that corner of 30-A the way it used to be.
__________________
~He can who thinks he can, and he can't who thinks he can't. This is and inexorable, indisputable law.~ Pablo Picasso.
Google Hotel Viridian, then click through all the renderings. To me that building could be in any commercial suburban area in North America, all we need is Walgreen Pharmacy on the other corner to fill the prescriptions for the painkillers.
Sorry, Kurt, I disagree. I lived in Tallahassee for years--where there is a serious tree ordinance--no one can cut trees without special permission. I have seen Florida State University and others save and transplant very large trees.
It works in lots of places. I sure would like to see one here before more trees are destroyed.
__________________
"Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do." — Wendell Berry
I sold out...I did. The real estate office was mine and in my family before that and Cube McGee Jr was my mother's business partner. The day of closing, I got big bucks, but I was sad, upset actually and it was noticed and commented on at the closing table and it was said I should be happy. Nothing can replace my memories or the feeling I had of selling out. That said, the parking was becoming a major problem, especially after the bike path was put in. Other zoning reasons as well. I was the hold out, and decided to sell. The area has grown so much. At the stop sign, it was impossible to get in or out of the parking lot and that is a big concern for any business. With the growth we experienced, it was time to move. The area has grown too much to hold on to the mom and pop experience. I miss it, but it is what it is.
It will be a major shock for a while as Veridian is being built, but I am confident the builders/investors have the best intentions in mind. Believe me, for what they spent, THEY DO!!
Over 20 years ago, the trees were cleared for the Seafood Market, (now George's at Alys Beach), and the same thing was being said about destroying trees. Then the brick thing was built, more trees gone. I don't like it, but it can be done because there is no zoning to stop it. I hear a lot of complaining and little "doing". Get busy and call planning and zoning...do something about what is left. It's easy to biotch, but harder to make a difference. Get off of your computer anf just do it. Where is the NIKE icon...?
__________________ "The only thing worse than being stood up is dating." NoHall
"If you are going to be stupid, you better be tough".
Sunspotbaby
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I rode by and saw those beautiful trees uprooted and laying there after all of these years. It made me really sad for them and the area of Seagrove that hardly has its namesake evident. Shame on those developers that didn't take into account the real beauty of the area and preserve those trees shame on me also for clearing trees (we have cleared our lot to build a house is there a difference between scrub, water oak, pine etc?) Maybe we should have all just kept to ourselves in the woods. We all are part of the problem and hopefully part of the solution. Kurt is right, all things must come to an end. What happened to the trees?
I sold out...I did. The real estate office was mine and in my family before that and Cube McGee Jr was my mother's business partner. The day of closing, I got big bucks, but I was sad, upset actually and it was noticed and commented on at the closing table and it was said I should be happy. Nothing can replace my memories or the feeling I had of selling out. That said, the parking was becoming a major problem, especially after the bike path was put in. Other zoning reasons as well. I was the hold out, and decided to sell. The area has grown so much. At the stop sign, it was impossible to get in or out of the parking lot and that is a big concern for any business. With the growth we experienced, it was time to move. The area has grown too much to hold on to the mom and pop experience. I miss it, but it is what it is.
It will be a major shock for a while as Veridian is being built, but I am confident the builders/investors have the best intentions in mind. Believe me, for what they spent, THEY DO!!
Over 20 years ago, the trees were cleared for the Seafood Market, (now George's at Alys Beach), and the same thing was being said about destroying trees. Then the brick thing was built, more trees gone. I don't like it, but it can be done because there is no zoning to stop it. I hear a lot of complaining and little "doing". Get busy and call planning and zoning...do something about what is left. It's easy to biotch, but harder to make a difference. Get off of your computer anf just do it. Where is the NIKE icon...?
So, what do we need to do to get a tree ordinance established? I am so frustrated with the county officials especially the planning office -- I am not sure where to turn.
Who do we work with? It is hard enough to get anyone to even answer the phone or respond to an email. I spent most of yesterday waiting for a return phone call that I made at 8:30, simply asking for the status of a project...and when the return call came, there was no one in the County office who had any information about the project.
Meetings are so disturbing (think Driftwood & flooding or the traffic lights not being installed at the intersections of 395 and 283...no turn lane from Highway 98 to Sugar Drive..)I just know another person is going to get killed there, especially now that there is increased traffic due to the opening of Louis Louis...yet, when everyday citizens ask for help from the county officials the request is met with bureaucratic stonewalling (think volunteer help to keep the library open).
We have empty strip malls, half-finished housing developments; housing areas that are standing vacant or the prices have dropped so that people are walking away...and the county continues to permit projects--with no plan for development of the area. Cypress swamps are bulldozed over, wetlands are built upon; big blue signs are installed; a sidewalk is built next to a four-laned Highway 331; trees are cut...and now, the very essence of our existence is being threatened: drilling for oil 3 miles off the coast!
Other places I have lived the local officials seemed even more involved with the overall enhancement than the citizens did, and when a citizen wanted to work with them; there was a genuine cooperation--not always agreement, for sure, but there was a common interest: making the community the very best it could be for present-day citizens and for generations to come.
In the 10 years since I moved back to Walton County, I have yet to find that attitude. I worked for months with many other citizens several years ago on a Vision Plan.,..what happened to that data? All those hours were volunteered to have a plan that would make our community an even better place to live...yet, nothing happened.
I am willing to work and volunteer my time, but at this point, I don't know what to do--or where to turn for leadership and accountability.
I am willing to do something, but I don't know where to turn.
__________________
"Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do." — Wendell Berry
Last edited by Glenda Wood; 03-16-2010 at 07:44 PM.
Very large trees can be moved, but it is extremely expensive to do so. I have seen a 55-foot-tall live oak weighing in at nearly 85 tons moved and replanted and it did great.
As to codes for saving the trees, I would look to areas that do this. Hilton Head Island is one, their building codes are some of the strickest in the country.
They are a perfect example of allowing progress and yet preserving the natural beauty of the island.
So, what do we need to do to get a tree ordinance established? I am so frustrated with the county officials especially the planning office -- I am not sure where to turn.
Who do we work with? It is hard enough to get anyone to even answer the phone or respond to an email. I spent most of yesterday waiting for a return phone call that I made at 8:30, simply asking for the status of a project...and when the return call came, there was no one in the County office who had any information about the project.
Meetings are so disturbing (think Driftwood & flooding or the traffic lights not being installed at the intersections of 395 and 283...no turn lane from Highway 98 to Sugar Drive..)I just know another person is going to get killed there, especially now that there is increased traffic due to the opening of Louis Louis...yet, when everyday citizens ask for help from the county officials the request is met with bureaucratic stonewalling (think volunteer help to keep the library open).
We have empty strip malls, half-finished housing developments; housing areas that are standing vacant or the prices have dropped so that people are walking away...and the county continues to permit projects--with no plan for development of the area. Cypress swamps are bulldozed over, wetlands are built upon; big blue signs are installed; a sidewalk is built next to a four-laned Highway 331; trees are cut...and now, the very essence of our existence is being threatened: drilling for oil 3 miles off the coast!
Other places I have lived the local officials seemed even more involved with the overall enhancement than the citizens did, and when a citizen wanted to work with them; there was a genuine cooperation--not always agreement, for sure, but there was a common interest: making the community the very best it could be for present-day citizens and for generations to come.
In the 10 years since I moved back to Walton County, I have yet to find that attitude. I worked for months with many other citizens several years ago on a Vision Plan.,..what happened to that data? All those hours were volunteered to have a plan that would make our community an even better place to year...yet, nothing happened.
I am willing to work and volunteer my time, but at this point, I don't know what to do--or where to turn for leadership and accountability.
I am willing to do something, but I don't know where to turn.
Goodwitch...we need you in the county office. Will you be our next commissioner? Seriously...
__________________ "The only thing worse than being stood up is dating." NoHall
"If you are going to be stupid, you better be tough".
Sunspotbaby
Goodwitch, we have experienced some of the same problems in Pt. Washington and have been working with the county planning and zoning for at least 4 years with little progress, actually we went backwards. It is frustrsting. Even worse is when you have to camp out at the new commissioners office to be heard. She will not return phone calls or emails. Our community is divided into two districts with hwy 395 N being the divider, so we have two commissioners. One is very helpful and behind us and the other is missing...
Add to this mix the shake up of planning and zoning and the new staff, although very nice, they have no clue and are disorganized.
We are keeping our fingers crossed that we will be able to accomplish something this year as a Historical Association and preserve and protect our unique and beautiful community. Seagrove needs a group to love it, as we love Pt. Washington. I hope someone steps up to the plate.
__________________ "The only thing worse than being stood up is dating." NoHall
"If you are going to be stupid, you better be tough".
Sunspotbaby
Info on the Walton County Planning Commission with names of the members and phone number. Maybe if the Commission gets enough calls and letters they will start to listen. GoodWitch can't be the only one making inquiries or more trees will be cut down right under our very noses. If you care, call and write. As many times as necessary.
__________________
I was outed twice now in my life--the first time by my sister in high school...the second time was right here on Sowal--by of all things, a dumbass mermaid--eh, go figure. ~a drama queen
Goodwitch, we have experienced some of the same problems in Pt. Washington and have been working with the county planning and zoning for at least 4 years with little progress, actually we went backwards. It is frustrsting. Even worse is when you have to camp out at the new commissioners office to be heard. She will not return phone calls or emails. Our community is divided into two districts with hwy 395 N being the divider, so we have two commissioners. One is very helpful and behind us and the other is missing...
Add to this mix the shake up of planning and zoning and the new staff, although very nice, they have no clue and are disorganized.
We are keeping our fingers crossed that we will be able to accomplish something this year as a Historical Association and preserve and protect our unique and beautiful community. Seagrove needs a group to love it, as we love Pt. Washington. I hope someone steps up to the plate.
We have to have lunch or dinner...give me a call.
__________________
"Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do." — Wendell Berry
Goodwitch...we need you in the county office. Will you be our next commissioner? Seriously...
Now, do you really think that would work I appreciate the thought, but not sure I would survive.
__________________
"Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do." — Wendell Berry
"Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do." — Wendell Berry
City of Atlanta is strict as well. Any trunk over 6" in diameter must have cause and permit. Cause as in disease; permit to take out tree.....not permit to build.
Being granted a permit to build here must include a plan for existing trees as well as mitigation for those taken out. I could on and on about taxes, but that's another thread. :)
A friend of mine who does not live here knows how adamantly I feel about trees, and I had shared with her the fact that the Seagrove trees had been destroyed. In an attempt to help me feel better she sent this--I thought I would share with you guys. Another important reason to save trees!
"Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do." — Wendell Berry
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A friend of mine who does not live here knows how adamantly I feel about trees, and I had shared with her the fact that the Seagrove trees had been destroyed. In an attempt to help me feel better she sent this--I thought I would share with you guys. Another important reason to save trees!
I know that is the first thought I had...I still feel sad about the trees, but this did lighten the discussion.
__________________
"Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do." — Wendell Berry
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Seriously...
I appreciate the thought, but not sure I would survive.
(and I know most of them will)
I know that is the first thought I had...I still feel sad about the trees, but this did lighten the discussion.
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