septic tanks and feces

[FoX]

Folks - most of the beaches are fine, and if sewage gets in the water it is only during storms, and is quickly dissipated (after all the gulf is one big fish cesspool). BUT - I can't believe that the county and DEP has not required every waterfront property, including bays and bayous to be on sewer.

I would not stay at Gulf Trace or any other area where septics have been uncovered or destroyed. Especially with kids.

Look at this gulf trace pic - there are many septic tanks exposed AGAIN and the drain fields (ie nets full of stryrofoam) are strewn all over the place.

- Talk about people crapping on the beach. :roll:

http://www.sowal.com/050712-dennis-278.jpg

[cpete]

My family stayed in Gulf Trace in '04' at "Southern Sons East" the first week of Augest (This year we stayed In Rosemary - third week of June in between Hurricanes and shark attacks). We were thinking about going back to Gulf Trace next year and staying closer to the lake. May think twice with the sewage issue.

[ShallowsNole]

All new construction is required to hook up if Regional Utilities offers service to the area. Homes that already existed before water/sewer was made available are encouraged and generally offered a reduced price to hook up, but cannot be forced to. Unless something has changed in the last two years, that is.

[lurker1]

It's a shame that the county allows these septic systems to be replaced. The owners should be ashamed also.

[Moondance]

(sorry so long-winded)
I am late to this conversation but hoping to revive it. Would appreciate getting current on the issue (how pervasive?), cause, dangers, parties (public and private), immediate resolution, and long term solution.

I am a long time visitor to SoWal, have purchased in Gulf Trace, was a former lurker on this site, and recent registrant for issues exactly such as this, which are near and dear to my kids, family, and heart.

For those concerned about a return to Gulf Trace, as of Monday 8/1/05 it is again/still spectacular, wide, soft, beautiful, white (small gray) and among the top beaches in the entire area, assuming this issue is resolved.

For now, I hope to shed some light and seek a resolution. I have one or two (possibly misinformed) comments and a couple questions--

1. My understanding is that there is no sewer anywhere in Gulf Trace, beachfront or otherwise, is this true?

2. Also, that Col. Ray (whom I've not met) maintains control of the "homeowner's association," perhaps as long as he's alive? Any one know? If that's the case, and they won't seek or allow sewer, that would mitigate some of the blame of the beachfront owners for septic damage, I suppose.

3. I was not aware that the bags of foam in the above pic (lower right), or apparently the foam littering the neighborhood, are former leach/drain fields! First, what the hell is a styrofoam-bagged drain field? how big could it possibly be? and what is it doing under MY/our beach??

4. Maybe a review of the HOA documents would help. Has anyone on this board ever reviewed them? Why is this neighborhood different than others where the HOA is typically eventually deeded/conveyed to an independent HOA?

5. I am curious about whether and to what extent this issue will impact the ability of any of the beachfront homes destroyed (anybody have a count?) to be repaired or rebuilt. I saw a note in another thread that a commissioner was in favor a relaxing front yard set backs in order to facilitate rebuilds. I don't necessarily disagree, as long as it's applied uniformly, and as long as any other issues (septic??) are satisfactorily addressed by beachfront owner and/or common area owner.

That's enough... Flying right into the storm, as it were, here on my second post.

Thoughts? Info? Help is appreciated.

Moondance

[kurt]

There is a meeting with the county next week to try and bring a resolution. I will try to get better info. I was at Little Redfish Lake yesterday and got some photos of the cleanup - a lot of styrofoam in the lake.

Secondhand I hear that Regional Utilities may offer loans to homeowners at low or zero interest as they do at other subdivisions. The difference is that Gulf Trace lines will have to be brought in from 30-A so it will add to homeowners cost. That has been the hangup I guess.

Adjacent property owners will start filing property rights lawsuits against certain parties in Gulf Trace if the issue is not resolved.

[Moondance]

Thanks Kurt, look forward to additional info from you and others (would love input from Gulf Trace owners). I understand the issue about getting service from 30A, and that it will be expensive, but that may be a secondary issue.

What if an individual homeowner, beachfront or otherwise, sought sewer but could not get service without common owner concurrence? I'm not sure but suspect an easement might be a necessary prerequisite? Hmmm... eminent domain issue? :idontno:

Also, seems like it needs to be "all or nothing" for the neighborhood to have sewer service, similar to sewer taps at Blue Mountain. I assume, for all the other post-Dennis issues at BMB, that sewer/septic is not one?

For that matter, is sewer/septic an issue in any other community(ies)?

Thanks again,
Moondance

[Richard]

Gulf Trace subdivision is the only subdivision in Walton County on the gulf without a sewer system. Inlet Beach to the east has some homes still on septic systems but they are actively working to install sewer.

James Earl Ray, who maintains the subdisision, has resisted sewer in Gulf Trace and he has been successful because it is a private subdivision. I don't believe there is a HOA. These septic systems were torn apart in hurricane Ivan, tropical storm Arlene and again after hurricane Dennis. Each time the water, the beach sand and the rare coastal dune lakes to the west were contaminated with high bacteria levels. Homes on the beach were condemned after Arlene and Dennis. Septic tank drain field parts contaminated the county to the west and it cost the county a lot of money to clean up these hazards.

Ray's rental company was checking people into homes with out functioning septic systems after tropical storm Arlene. Boy were those renters unhappy when they found out and were forced to move out by the Health Department.

I am told residents of Gulf Trace voted against allowing Regional Utilities to install water and sewer lines. According to the fire department Gulf Trace does not have proper fire hydrants to fight a significant fire. It would have to be done with pumper trucks. That could be a problem. The surrounding communities have been very upset about this situation as they suffer from the contamination. In addition there are many homeowners in Gulf Trace that want water and sewer but they seem to not be in the majority.

Recently the BCC passed a motion to assess any beach front property owner with a septic system that fails during a storm with a proportionate cost of what it costs to clean up their mess. The ordinance is being developed and fine tuned.

Health issues related to bacteria in the water are highly unlikely as the bacteria dissipates relatively quickly in the Gulf but the bacteria in the sand can last for months. Digging in the sand could be a problem. According to an article in USA Today on 7/21/05 the beach can act as a Petri dish for bacteria.

See www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2005-07-21-bacteria-beaches_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2005-07-21-bacteria-beaches_x.htm)

And this article does not address beaches with septic tanks on them.

[Miss Kitty]

Richard...Thanks for the information. Is the hold up on proper sewage lines the cost or homeowners digging in their heels? I hope the ordinance gets fine tuned quickly. Maybe a hefty fine would be the nudge needed to help the homeowners realize their money would be better spent on hooking up to sewers. If I was looking on this message board to rent a place, Gulf Trace would not make my long list. Your pic is worth a million words. I also would like to hear from Gulf Trace owners for their comments.

FIRES AND FECES...scary!

[Richard]

The holdup appears to be the majority of homeowners digging in their heels, but I understand for them it's about money. They get their water from three wells in the subdivision and they have no sewer costs. Because their roads are private the county has no right-of-way there. Regional Utilities has offered sewer in the past.

[Philip_Atlanta]

Interesting.. I don't know the whole of the story - but from the information here, I'd be embarrassed to be a Gulf Trace owner and begin taking some action.

Here are some tidbits from an article I found in the Walton Sun..

James Earl Ray, who owns several properties in Gulf Trace, said the Walton County Health Department regularly inspected the wells in the subdivision and found no problems with the water there.
“I’ve never heard of a person to get sick from a septic tank,” Ray said.
However, Walton County Health Director Jim Jones said at the meeting a failed septic system could cause a problem.
“Yes, there is a threat to the water,” Jones said.


“Gulf Trace is the only subdivision in the Regional Utilities service area without public sewer service,” Regional Utilities Operation Coordinator Ashley Dismukes wrote to Walton County Commissioner Cindy Meadows after Tropical Storm Arlene. “This subdivision is also the only subdivision with septic tanks remaining on the beach.”
Dismukes noted 18 months earlier, Regional offered to provide water and sewer service to Gulf Trace residents, but of the 75 property owners, only 19 desired the services so the company did not move forward with the project.

[Miss Kitty]

Shame, Shame, Shame!!!!!

[Moondance]

Shame indeed. As a recent owner in Gulf Trace, I am stunned that septics are even allowed on or near the beach, and that my neighbors voted against adequate sewer and fire protection. Perhaps a relic of our (collective) ignorant past, who knows? Even so, there are certainly a number (more than 19...) of enlightened, motivated, committed and financed owners in Gulf Trace, with any number of vested interests in addressing and resolving this issue forever.

I am seeking information and legal review of the applicable homeowner "association" docs and will provide a fuller report on this thread. For now, it is my understanding that the developer maintains control of the private/common areas and owns a substantial number of the beachfront rentals in question.

I applaud the ordinance (update, please, from anyone with good info) and suspect that it may accelerate the acquisition of a collective concience in Gulf Trace. Please keep in mind that it has historically been an absentee owner/rental community. However, for myself and others, it has/will become at least as much a residential retreat as a rental one.

I will do my part as an owner, particularly if I can get moral and other support, in addition to outrage and indignation, which I share with my friends on this board. Let's get it fixed. I don't want my (or your) kids playing in a septic drain field.

[Paula]

Shame indeed. As a recent owner in Gulf Trace, I am stunned that septics are even allowed on or near the beach, and that my neighbors voted against adequate sewer and fire protection. Perhaps a relic of our (collective) ignorant past, who knows? Even so, there are certainly a number (more than 19...) of enlightened, motivated, committed and financed owners in Gulf Trace, with any number of vested interests in addressing and resolving this issue forever.

I am seeking information and legal review of the applicable homeowner "association" docs and will provide a fuller report on this thread. For now, it is my understanding that the developer maintains control of the private/common areas and owns a substantial number of the beachfront rentals in question.

I applaud the ordinance (update, please, from anyone with good info) and suspect that it may accelerate the acquisition of a collective concience in Gulf Trace. Please keep in mind that it has historically been an absentee owner/rental community. However, for myself and others, it has/will become at least as much a residential retreat as a rental one.

I will do my part as an owner, particularly if I can get moral and other support, in addition to outrage and indignation, which I share with my friends on this board. Let's get it fixed. I don't want my (or your) kids playing in a septic drain field.

Thanks. If there's anything people who don't live in SoWal can do to support you, just let us know. Is there any way to publicly identify the association owners who do support adequate sewer and fire protection and those who don't? Sometimes having one's views made public encourages people to make their views more socially appropriate. For example, do association meeting results (e.g., votes for or against adequate sewer and fire protection) have to be made public in any way?

[Miss Kitty]

You Go Moondance!!!! You'll probably be called the "little whippersnapper", etc., but I think you have to be correct that more than 19 homeowners are in favor of saving their neighborhood's reputation. Please be advised...I am speaking from the heart and not from being educated on the history or ordinances in effect...other than from what I have learned from others here.

[Beach Runner]

Speaking of septic tanks and feces, why does it always smell so badly on 395 just south of the Hammocks?

[Philip_Atlanta]

Moondance, I applaud your action. It seems you have an uphill battle, especially with Mr. Ray. Here is a quote that I found, to give you an idea of who you are fighting against...
______
Ray said Wednesday that he opposes the ordinance because the county has no business making Gulf Trace property owners connect to sewer. He added that he thinks Meadows just wants to cause trouble for Gulf Trace with the ordinance.

"This is a private subdivision," he said. "The biggest mistake that the county made was electing a female county commissioner. She's all talk and no action."

Meadows laughed when told of Ray's comments.

"To make this a personal and a sexist issue is almost as bad as letting your sewer run down into other people's lakes," she said.

[Smiling JOe]

...
Meadows laughed when told of Ray's comments.

"To make this a personal and a sexist issue is almost as bad as letting your sewer run down into other people's lakes," she said.
:floor: :floor: :floor:

[EZ4144]

A lot of people feel that way aboutt her she is a joke that is not funny and nobody listens to her anyway except people that are unhappy. She always votes against the people and all the other comissioners.

[Smiling JOe]

A lot of people feel that way aboutt her she is a joke that is not funny and nobody listens to her anyway except people that are unhappy. She always votes against the people and all the other comissioners.
You are full of horse fecies.

[Miss Kitty]

Hmmmmm...Mr. Ray, dem is fightin' words! If you had any chance of being taken seriously to begin with, you lost it with that comment. Those words smack of ignorance. Something smells here....besides the tanks. What is up?

[Smiling JOe]

and now we know Mr. Ray's code name.

[Smiling JOe]

A lot of people feel that way aboutt her she is a joke that is not funny and nobody listens to her anyway except people that are unhappy. She always votes against the people and all the other comissioners.
Are you just plain stupid? Oops, I mean blind?
As a County Commissioner, one is not to go along with the other Commissioners just for the sake of going along. You must have been at a meeting different than the one which I attended. All of the other Commissioners voted against her. All of them. Cindy actually seconded Commissioner Jones' motion, and voted in favor. Wake up and smell the beans. I am all for making Walton Co a better place to live, so go clean up your sh_t, and take your new plastic beach somewhere else. Don't get me started. I may have to break out my chess set to quiten you down.

Commissioner Meadows has both happy and unhappy people listening to her.

If I were a County Commissioner, I would always question other Commissioners. I think Comm. Meadows is one of the few good ones we have.

[lurker1]

.

If I were a County Commissioner, I would always question other Commissioners. I think Comm. Meadows is one of the few good ones we have.[/QUOTE]

Amen, brother Joe!

[kurt]

Photos of the pollution and cleanup of Little Redfish Lake, adjacent Gulf Trace.

http://www.sowal.com/photos-080305.html


http://www.sowal.com/050803-littleredfish-044.jpg

[Moondance]

You Go Moondance!!!! You'll probably be called the "little whippersnapper", etc., but I think you have to be correct that more than 19 homeowners are in favor of saving their neighborhood's reputation. Please be advised...I am speaking from the heart and not from being educated on the history or ordinances in effect...other than from what I have learned from others here.
Actually, I prefer "Lightning Rod" :biggrin: to little whippersnapper :( , but I get your drift!

I really appreciate the encouragement on this thread. I am sure that most of you understand I have much to lose by making these public comments. However, there is only one stand to take on this atrocity, and as I mentioned in my first post on the topic: "I'm flying straight into the storm."

I'll let you all know how to help, whether locally or remotely. I can not be there for the septic meeting on this Tues 8/9, but I would appreciate anyone in attendance providing a report on this thread.

Any chance there is a way to attend/listen via teleconference or online or other technology?? Kurt, help...?

[kurt]

Actually, I prefer "Lightning Rod" :biggrin: to little whippersnapper :( , but I get your drift!

I really appreciate the encouragement on this thread. I am sure that most of you understand I have much to lose by making these public comments. However, there is only one stand to take on this atrocity, and as I mentioned in my first post on the topic: "I'm flying straight into the storm."

I'll let you all know how to help, whether locally or remotely. I can not be there for the septic meeting on this Tues 8/9, but I would appreciate anyone in attendance providing a report on this thread.

Any chance there is a way to attend/listen via teleconference or online or other technology?? Kurt, help...?

There will be a report here. Anything else is a little ahead of its time for Walton County. Although if they had hotspots someone could report live on this forum.

[Smiling JOe]

There will be a report here. Anything else is a little ahead of its time for Walton County. Although if they had hotspots someone could report live on this forum.

If they had a hot spot there, I would buy a web cam and you could watch the meeting of poop, maybe from Kurt's SoWal.com

I know of another, more advanced, small town that has a television channel devoted to the City and one to the County. All meetings are broadcasted. With all of the tax base here, I question why we cannot do something as simple as have a streamline broadcast for all County Meetings so that our large numbers of distant property owners can tune in to what is happening.

What time is the meeting on Tuesday?

[Donna]

First, I want to speak in support of Commissioner Meadows, who appears to have an exemplary voting record of brave positions on difficult issues. It is always difficult to be the only woman on an elected body, but I have found that the women usually exercise an independent vote that is based on the merits of the issue, as opposed to based on a position that someone else has lobbied them to. When we had questions about the sand issue (from out of State), she responded to us very quickly and with a comprehensive and persuasive point of view. We were impressed. A person who believes that women have no place in elected office needs to remember than women make up more than 50 percent of the voting population. That homeowners' rep individual's comments are unenlightened and undignified. I am certain they don't reflect the feelings of other owners in Gulf Trace.

Second, I have a question on this septic tank issue. Can someone fill me in? I do not understand how a situation that clearly poses a public health and safety hazard continues to be left in a status quo. In our local government, this kind of thing would go onto the District Attorney's desk so fast and the DA would require an immediate solution. I mean, their instructions in our County (which is far from being the most progressive around) are that the inspector's field notes on public safety conditions do not even go to word processing before they go onto the DA's desk, literally. Am I missing something...that an exposed septic tank can be left on a public beach to pollute multiple bodies of water and and beaches were people with children recreate in large numbers? I'm not being facetious, I really don't understand how this can go unresolved.

[Moondance]

Moondance, I applaud your action. It seems you have an uphill battle, especially with Mr. Ray. Here is a quote that I found, to give you an idea of who you are fighting against...
______
Ray said Wednesday that he opposes the ordinance because the county has no business making Gulf Trace property owners connect to sewer. He added that he thinks Meadows just wants to cause trouble for Gulf Trace with the ordinance.

"This is a private subdivision," he said. "The biggest mistake that the county made was electing a female county commissioner. She's all talk and no action."

Meadows laughed when told of Ray's comments.

"To make this a personal and a sexist issue is almost as bad as letting your sewer run down into other people's lakes," she said.

Always nice to know your neighbors, so thanks for the info. Here's a thought, from Jack Johnson (best singer/songwriter in the biz):

"Bet you never knew anyone that could be so bad,
And if you did, you'd be wondering where I'm at..."

;-)

[Moondance]

First, I want to speak in support of Commissioner Meadows, who appears to have an exemplary voting record of brave positions on difficult issues. It is always difficult to be the only woman on an elected body, but I have found that the women usually exercise an independent vote that is based on the merits of the issue, as opposed to based on a position that someone else has lobbied them to. When we had questions about the sand issue (from out of State), she responded to us very quickly and with a comprehensive and persuasive point of view. We were impressed. A person who believes that women have no place in elected office needs to remember than women make up more than 50 percent of the voting population. That homeowners' rep individual's comments are unenlightened and undignified. I am certain they don't reflect the feelings of other owners in Gulf Trace.

Second, I have a question on this septic tank issue. Can someone fill me in? I do not understand how a situation that clearly poses a public health and safety hazard continues to be left in a status quo. In our local government, this kind of thing would go onto the District Attorney's desk so fast and the DA would require an immediate solution. I mean, their instructions in our County (which is far from being the most progressive around) are that the inspector's field notes on public safety conditions do not even go to word processing before they go onto the DA's desk, literally. Am I missing something...that an exposed septic tank can be left on a public beach to pollute multiple bodies of water and and beaches were people with children recreate in large numbers? I'm not being facetious, I really don't understand how this can go unresolved.


Donna, I could not agree more that this is utterly inexplicable. That's why I am asking questions and gathering info. Thanks for your thoughts. I have no opinion on Comm. Meadows since I have no experience with her at all.

Importantly, :!: Col. James Earl Ray is no homeowner's representative, as there is NO H.O.A in Gulf Trace :shock: , it is Ray Enterprise's private subdivision (as stated in the article) and it has not and will not, apparently, permit the county to provide sewer.

I agree with you 100%. I don't think it's a matter of a choice, or of the majority vs. minority, or of a vote ("only 19 out of 75," etc.), I think it's a matter of health and public safety, that the common owner is responsible for, both legally and financially. Period.

I can not wait to get there to ask the DA the same questions you raise. Anyone out there (Gulf Trace?) have other thoughts? Is there a credible answer to Donna's question?

[Smiling JOe]

http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/P8070004.JPG

Septic tanks on the Beach? Shame on you! The only things that we should see peeking up from the sand are images like this.

It is very interesting how we all have an Out of sight, out of mind mentality. I encourage you to remember those septic tanks on the beach even if they get covered up soon. We have little kids and big kids like me, who enjoy playing in the sand on these beaches. Do you think you guys could move your septic tanks into your bedroom, because I sure don't want to be playing in them? Perhaps you are okay with the idea of smelling your own poop (like farts - your own are okay, but others' stink). What do you say?

[Moondance]

Amen, again, Brother Joe. :clap_1:

[Tootsie]

First, I want to speak in support of Commissioner Meadows, who appears to have an exemplary voting record of brave positions on difficult issues. It is always difficult to be the only woman on an elected body, but I have found that the women usually exercise an independent vote that is based on the merits of the issue, as opposed to based on a position that someone else has lobbied them to.

I voted for Commissioner Cindy Meadows knowing her extensive city planning knowledge and experience, and most importantly, knowing that she is very professional and is genuinely interested in the needs of the community, not the agenda of certain political groups. In other words, she is not part of the established good old boy network - and so she is quite often in the minority when voting. I hope we can vote more like her into office in the very near future or such professionalism will never prevail in south walton. Good old boys still rule, unfortunately.

[Moondance]

What district does Comm. Meadows represent? Gulf Trace by any chance? Anyone have contact info for her? Please share if you have it. Thanks.

[Smiling JOe]

What district does Comm. Meadows represent? Gulf Trace by any chance? Anyone have contact info for her? Please share if you have it. Thanks.
District 5
Commissioner Cindy Meadows
90 Spires Lane, Unit 7-A
Santa Rosa Beach, FL. 32459
Phone: (850) 622-3059
Fax: (850) 622-3067
e-mail: meacindy@co.walton.fl.us

For what it is worth, here is the County's Website (http://www.co.walton.fl.us).

[Moondance]

You DA man!! :clap_1:

I thought that was her office I saw the other day in Gulf Place. I'm about to have my first conversation with her, I'll let yous know what I learn...

[Richard]

First, I want to speak in support of Commissioner Meadows, who appears to have an exemplary voting record of brave positions on difficult issues. It is always difficult to be the only woman on an elected body, but I have found that the women usually exercise an independent vote that is based on the merits of the issue, as opposed to based on a position that someone else has lobbied them to. When we had questions about the sand issue (from out of State), she responded to us very quickly and with a comprehensive and persuasive point of view. We were impressed. A person who believes that women have no place in elected office needs to remember than women make up more than 50 percent of the voting population. That homeowners' rep individual's comments are unenlightened and undignified. I am certain they don't reflect the feelings of other owners in Gulf Trace.

Second, I have a question on this septic tank issue. Can someone fill me in? I do not understand how a situation that clearly poses a public health and safety hazard continues to be left in a status quo. In our local government, this kind of thing would go onto the District Attorney's desk so fast and the DA would require an immediate solution. I mean, their instructions in our County (which is far from being the most progressive around) are that the inspector's field notes on public safety conditions do not even go to word processing before they go onto the DA's desk, literally. Am I missing something...that an exposed septic tank can be left on a public beach to pollute multiple bodies of water and and beaches were people with children recreate in large numbers? I'm not being facetious, I really don't understand how this can go unresolved.

To this point the majority of county commissioners have claimed because this is a private subdivision they have no authority to force water and sewer on these people, despite the fact that many of them want water and sewer. I'm told commissioner Cuchens has relatives that live in this subdivision.

The health department has claimed that because there are no sewer lines available they have no choice but to allow the beachfront homeowners to hook back up to the septic tanks. State law requires home owners to hook up to sewer within a specified period of time after it becomes available but this is not enforced by the county or the health department. People are required to hook up to sewer when their systems fail IF sewer is available. In this case it is not available.

Of course one could argue the health, safety and welfare of the entire community should be considered over the desires of a few residents in the subdivision.

The septic tank drain field parts - nasty - that had blown into Little Redfish Lake from Gulf Trace were washed into the gulf and onto Blue Mountain Beach over the weekend when Little Redfish Lake opened into the gulf and washed all this material that had been piled on the beach away.

[Smiling JOe]

I think the parking signs in front of the rental office in Gulf Trace have much to tell about Mr. Ray.
:blink::shock::blink:

[Miss Kitty]

I think the parking signs in front of the rental office in Gulf Trace have much to tell about Mr. Ray.
:blink::shock::blink:

Enlighten me...

[Smiling JOe]

Maybe I will take and post a photo for you tomorrow.:D

[luvthebeach]

I think the parking signs in front of the rental office in Gulf Trace have much to tell about Mr. Ray.
:blink::shock::blink:


:idontno: Sounds interesting! :idontno:

[Smiling JOe]

:idontno: Sounds interesting! :idontno:
Not too crazy, but it will certainly let you know what he thinks about himself, you know, the screw you attitude.

[Moondance]

A picture would be worth more than the quote, especially with the added emphasis of the vehicle parked in the slot. See what you can do SJ... :cool:

Meanwhile, does anyone have the information on when/where the septic meeting is to be held tomorrow(?). For all interested parties who can make the time, please try to attend in my/our absence and provide additional info on this thread.

It would be much appreciated by all us who are landlocked at the moment, with due respect to Landlocked (except for that picture :eek: )

[luvthebeach]

To this point the majority of county commissioners have claimed because this is a private subdivision they have no authority to force water and sewer on these people, despite the fact that many of them want water and sewer. I'm told commissioner Cuchens has relatives that live in this subdivision.

Somehow this doesn't come as a big surprise :pissed:

[Smiling JOe]

It would really stink (pun intended) if the Gulf Trace Homeowner's Association lost a lawsuit and was forced to install sewer in order to protect the health of beach goers. I guess then, we would know who's not the boss. :idontno:

[Moondance]

It would really stink (pun intended) if the Gulf Trace Homeowner's Association lost a lawsuit and was forced to install sewer in order to protect the health of beach goers. I guess then, we would know who's not the boss. :idontno:

Oh, if it only it could happen. Please repeat after me... "there is no Homeowners' Association at Gulf Trace, there is no Homeowners' Association at Gulf Trace." :pissed:

But, to your point SJ, the (a) defendant in such a suit or enforcement action, or (b) entity to remediate and cure the issue and/or respond in damages, it seems to me, would be the person or entity in control of the common areas. This would particularly seem to be the case where that person or entity has undertaken (assumed a duty of care) to provide certain utilities and services for a profit, and has actual knowledge of the defective/dangerous condition for 25-30? years. :eek:

Wow, starting to sound like an articulable private action and/or basis for public action. Any commissioners out there? Health and safety? Activists? We're making a case for action on this thread. Is anyone prepared to act? :!:

[Richard]

Meanwhile, does anyone have the information on when/where the septic meeting is to be held tomorrow(?). For all interested parties who can make the time, please try to attend in my/our absence and provide additional info on this thread.

It would be much appreciated by all us who are landlocked at the moment, with due respect to Landlocked (except for that picture :eek: )

The county commission meeting that will deal with the septic tank issue is at the Walton County courthouse in DeFuniak Springs at 4PM today. Go up highway 331, cross under I-10, until you run out of road. Take a right and the courthouse is several blocks down on the left. It's about a 45 to 50 minute drive.

[Miss Kitty]

Moondance...are you in town for this meeting? Put me down for some funding if it comes to that....this issue has broad reaching impact potential for more than this area. Has anyone thought seriously about a Concerned Citizens type group to back issues of this sort? I vaguely remember some alliance from this board...can some one help my mentalpause?

[Moondance]

Moondance...are you in town for this meeting? Put me down for some funding if it comes to that....this issue has broad reaching impact potential for more than this area. Has anyone thought seriously about a Concerned Citizens type group to back issues of this sort? I vaguely remember some alliance from this board...can some one help my mentalpause?

Sueshore, I really appreciate it! :clap_1: I'll put you on the growing list. Others send PM to Moondance if you are interested in helping...

I am not in town and won't get to SoWal for a few days. That is why I am hoping someone in attendance will keep us updated on the meeting today (at 4PM at the courthouse in DeFuniak).

I have contacted Comm. Meadows via email to try to apprise her of the discussion here. Will follow up with fax of hard copy of the thread.

I am not aware of a group but, obviously, would support it. And by the way, I'm no crusader nor activist, just concerned over one of the most inexplicable things I've ever run across (in my own backyard, literally).

[Smiling JOe]

Moondance...are you in town for this meeting? Put me down for some funding if it comes to that....this issue has broad reaching impact potential for more than this area. Has anyone thought seriously about a Concerned Citizens type group to back issues of this sort? I vaguely remember some alliance from this board...can some one help my mentalpause?

Try BeachtoBay.org (http://www.beachtobay.org/)

[Richard]

Has anyone thought seriously about a Concerned Citizens type group to back issues of this sort? I vaguely remember some alliance from this board...can some one help my mentalpause?

Or try The South Walton Community Council at <http://www.southwaltoncc.org/>

[Smiling JOe]

Moondance, I have not thoroughly researched every page regarding Gulf Trace found in the Clerk of Court's Office. However, I did find two points of interest which you may persuit.

Found in the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions, OR(official records) book 190 / page 17, dated 6/17/1980:

1) Page 2, par. 7, ..."The residences shall use septic tanks or sanitary sewer meeting the requirements of Walton County."...

To me, this sounds as though you, as a property owner, have a choice to use sewer.

2) page 2, par. 9, "No noxious or offensive trade shall be carried on upon any said lot or property in the subdivision nor shall anything to be done thereon which may be or become an annoyance or nuisance to the neighborhood....."

It seems to me that septic tanks polluting the beach and Gulf at Gulf Trace could certainly be deemed both an annoyance and a nuisance to the neighborhood.

I am not an attorney, not even close, but I hope this may give you some ammo.

I am sure that you, as an owner in Gulf Trace, know that, according to these same Restrictive Covenants page 3, par. 12, , "it shall be lawful for any owner of property in this subdivision to prosecute proceeds at law or in equity against such lot owner or person either to prevent the violation or to recover damages for such violation."

I wish I had more time to allocate to researching further. There may be updates or changes to these original Restrictive Covenants of which you should be aware.

[Moondance]

This is awesome, SJ :clap_1: , thanks for the time on this. If you have copies of any docs, please send PM and attach, or I'll give you an alternate email. Thanks for your help and interest!

[Miss Kitty]

Try BeachtoBay.org (http://www.beachtobay.org/)


That was the one!! Awesome site...especially the fly over photo! Thanks.

You are one of the good ones...always helping out. I'm glad you got MD's back!

[Smiling JOe]

http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/IMG_0955a.jpg

http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/IMG_0958.JPG


http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/IMG_0957.JPG


http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/IMG_0953.JPG


http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/IMG_0956.JPG


Just wanted to show you a little about the pond scum with whom we are fighting. James Ray was obviously posing, and showing his better side.

You might be a redneck if you park your cattle trailers in your driveway at your Gulf front homes.

I sure am glad that my neighbors are a little more friendly than JD Hogg (Boss Hogg from the Duke Boys).

[Moondance]

SJ, we got more than bargained for with the pictures (worth only a 1,000 words?). I don't even know where to begin. I suppose it could be an advance team of vehicles to begin salvage before quick demolition?? :idontno: This is not the sort of news I was hoping for, but not entirely unexpected. :blink:

Any one have news from the BCC meeting today? I know it was a regular meeting, not called purely for septic issue, but was hoping it got some airing (wheww!). Please post whatever you have of interest. Thanks.

[Drovner]

Good news for all of us! Last night our County Commission voted unanimously to loan Regional Utilities approx. $400,000 required to install water and sewer lines for Gulf Trace and Bannerman Estates.

The agreement required only gulf front homeowners to get on-board with water and sewer lines immediately. Other non-gulf front owners may sign on with Regional Utilities when they choose. Regional is selling these property owners tap fees for 1/2 price and will finance the complete installation over 20 years, costing only approx. $74 per month.

Jimmy Ray and other Gulf Trace property owners have already agreed to sign up.

Regional Utilities is planning to put out a bond in the near future to fund this and other projects. The County loan will be paid back from this bond.

The other good news is that Gulf Crowder, the contracted dune lake contractor has finished their 1st pass at cleaning up Little Redfish Lake. Most large items and larger septic items have been removed and hauled away. We still need them to return to pick up the drainfield styrofoam cubes along the shoreline, but they've come a long way!

Thanks to all who pitched in sending emails, phone calls, etc to the County Commission to help pave the way for water and sewer into Gulf Trace!!!! :laughing1

[kurt]

Good news for all of us! Last night our County Commission voted unanimously to loan Regional Utilities approx. $400,000 required to install water and sewer lines for Gulf Trace and Bannerman Estates.

The agreement required only gulf front homeowners to get on-board with water and sewer lines immediately. Other non-gulf front owners may sign on with Regional Utilities when they choose. Regional is selling these property owners tap fees for 1/2 price and will finance the complete installation over 20 years, costing only approx. $74 per month.

Jimmy Ray and other Gulf Trace property owners have already agreed to sign up.

Regional Utilities is planning to put out a bond in the near future to fund this and other projects. The County loan will be paid back from this bond.

The other good news is that Gulf Crowder, the contracted dune lake contractor has finished their 1st pass at cleaning up Little Redfish Lake. Most large items and larger septic items have been removed and hauled away. We still need them to return to pick up the drainfield styrofoam cubes along the shoreline, but they've come a long way!

Thanks to all who pitched in sending emails, phone calls, etc to the County Commission to help pave the way for water and sewer into Gulf Trace!!!! :laughing1

Thanks for the update DR - great effort on your part. I had a good feeling that this mess would finally get taken care of. Hopefully it is a good solution for everyone and Gulf Trace will be the great neighborhood everyone wants it to be.

[Smiling JOe]

Thanks for the update DR - great effort on your part. I had a good feeling that this mess would finally get taken care of. Hopefully it is a good solution for everyone and Gulf Trace will be the great neighborhood everyone wants it to be.

Yee-Haw! Great news! Congrats Moondance and other GT owners. Now where did I park my horse?

[Miss Kitty]

Now that's what we were talkin' about!!!!! I applaud MD and everyone else working on this...sounds like win-win for homeowners and beach alike. So....just who was ez?

[Rita]

:clap_1:
All the effort is paying off! This forum's ability to connect people is extraordinary :!:

[luvthebeach]

Good news for all of us! Last night our County Commission voted unanimously to loan Regional Utilities approx. $400,000 required to install water and sewer lines for Gulf Trace and Bannerman Estates.


Jimmy Ray and other Gulf Trace property owners have already agreed to sign up.

Thanks to all who pitched in sending emails, phone calls, etc to the County Commission to help pave the way for water and sewer into Gulf Trace!!!! :laughing1

Awesome news! Thanks for making my day :clap_1:

And thanks for the photos, SJ...you're right....it pretty much says it all about JR, though it's good to know that he's willing to sign on now that the County's footing the bill for his stinky problem!

[Donna]

What terrific news this is! It reaffirms one's faith in due process. Power to the people!

[Moondance]

OUTSTANDING!! I am reading the news from a kiosk in Dulles airport and I am thrilled. :biggrin: Thanks to all who were interested and vocal, and thanks for this board. This is truly excellent news. :clap_1: :clap_1:

Maybe we can now change the name of this thread to something less noxious and a little more positive?? I'm sure SJ and witty others will have good thoughts... ;-)

[Smiling JOe]

OUTSTANDING!! I am reading the news from a kiosk in Dulles airport and I am thrilled. :biggrin: Thanks to all who were interested and vocal, and thanks for this board. This is truly excellent news. :clap_1: :clap_1:

Maybe we can now change the name of this thread to something less noxious and a little more positive?? I'm sure SJ and witty others will have good thoughts... ;-)

How about "Moonbeams and Sewer Lines?" Good Job Moondance.:clap_1:

[Miss Kitty]

Oh Moondance...I have been waiting for you to get the news!!!! My day is off to a great start now...Happy Traveling!

[Moondance]

Oh Moondance...I have been waiting for you to get the news!!!! My day is off to a great start now...Happy Traveling!

Thanks, Sueshore. I have returned from biz travel and I'm now about to commence leisure travel, proper. I am headed immediately to SoWal and can not wait to lay eyes on Jimmy Ray's carnival in my neighborhood. Jeeziz what a yahoo! :idontno: When I speak to him, I'll ask him whathehell?? Good result so far, no, GREAT result so far, just waiting for the other shoe to drop... :shock:

I can't help but feel like Slim Pickens in Blazin' Saddles as, with a posse, he approached the "Raymond? J. LePetomaine Toll Bridge (10 cents)" in the middle of the desert:

Slim: "Aw man!! What'll this ****sucker think of next...???
Alright, somebody's gotta go back and get a sh_tloada dimes!"

Got any dimes??

[lollygal]

Thanks, Sueshore. I have returned from biz travel and I'm now about to commence leisure travel, proper. I am headed immediately to SoWal and can not wait to lay eyes on Jimmy Ray's carnival in my neighborhood. Jeeziz what a yahoo! :idontno: When I speak to him, I'll ask him whathehell?? Good result so far, no, GREAT result so far, just waiting for the other shoe to drop... :shock:

I can't help but feel like Slim Pickens in Blazin' Saddles as, with a posse, he approached the "Raymond? J. LePetomaine Toll Bridge (10 cents)" in the middle of the desert:

Slim: "Aw man!! What'll this ****sucker think of next...???
Alright, somebody's gotta go back and get a sh_tloada dimes!"

Got any dimes??

Since you are starting vacation mode, I think you should refer to the "bushwacker" link and see my recipe for a nice kick-a** drink ... Enjoy!:cool:

[Moondance]

Saw it. Got it. Printed. Done. Thanks! :clap_1:

Here's a Duck Fart, to your good health! ;-)