2006 Proposed property taxes

[dsilvar]

Anyone get their proposed property taxes as yet?
Okaloosa county has started mailing their proposed property taxes to property owners with valuations in excess of 125% of last years assesed values.
Seems to me the county tax appraiser is getting mighty greedy. In many states there are limits to annual property tax increases.
Time to contest the valuation.:bang:

[goodwitch58]

There are limits in Walton too...if one has Homestead Exemption. Also, last year the millage rate was reduced--thanks to the good work of the Walton County Taxpayers Association.

[SHELLY]

Seems to me the county tax appraiser is getting mighty greedy. In many states there are limits to annual property tax increases.
Time to contest the valuation.:bang:

Since Florida had to redecorate the last two summers, we've got "no state taxes" and essentially canned the "intangible tax" the money has gotta come from somewhere. :idontno: Florida is just makin' hay before the RE Boom fizzles completely.

Safe to say someone with a portfolio full of Florida investment RE is going to feel the sting more than the regular ole homesteaders.

[dsilvar]

Safe to say someone with a portfolio full of Florida investment RE is going to feel the sting more than the regular ole homesteaders.
Well..don't look at me.:roll: I'm down to just 2 holdings in Florida. And they are for my own consumption.
But that aside..Ad Valorem taxes are usually based on 5 or 10 year valuation averages to take the bumps and surprises out...Mr Pete Smith (Okaloosa assesor) seems to make his assesments almost monthly! Last year he upped it 125% and this year he hands me 140% (quater million $) increase.
Just because 2 to 3% of like properties are bought by investulator maniacs for exorbadant prices, does not necessarily make it true for the other 97%!
At no time was my property on the market at that valuation.
Let my property sell on the market and then fix its value at the selling price.
Thats what I say!!

[Hollibird]

I got my taxes (Okaloosa) $10,000. They claim my house (new, 2 story... destiny west) is worth $70,000 less than my neighbor who has less square footage, one story. no more upgrades than me.... I think they pull prices out of their asses. PLUS we would not be able to sell our homes at the price they claim. we are doing the petition thing.

[SHELLY]

Just because 2 to 3% of like properties are bought by investulator maniacs for exorbadant prices, does not necessarily make it true for the other 97%!


But during the "frenzy" a good number of the remaining 97 - 98% actually BELIEVED the price increases applied to their properties too--some even liberated equity based on the exorbitant prices....many gleefully related their stories of instant riches to anyone within earshot. The counties are taking full advantage of the RE frenzy to fatten the tax coffers --your case is just another example of "collateral damage" from the RE boom.

[SHELLY]

I got my taxes (Okaloosa) $10,000. They claim my house (new, 2 story... destiny west) is worth $70,000 less than my neighbor who has less square footage, one story. no more upgrades than me.... I think they pull prices out of their asses. PLUS we would not be able to sell our homes at the price they claim. we are doing the petition thing.

You're petitioning because they valued your home too low? :confused:

[dsilvar]

But during the "frenzy" a good number of the remaining 97 - 98% actually BELIEVED the price increases applied to their properties too--some even liberated equity based on the exorbitant prices....many gleefully related their stories of instant riches to anyone within earshot. The counties are taking full advantage of the RE frenzy to fatten the tax coffers
Maybe so..we were gleefull as values went up and now not so gleefull as prices come down and inventory goes up...but that does not give the county assessor the right to see only one side of the coin. If I put my lot on the market for what the assessor says its worth, I am sure it would languish on the "market" for years.
It aint right..I tell ya.

[dsilvar]

I got my taxes (Okaloosa) $10,000. They claim my house (new, 2 story... destiny west) is worth $70,000 less than my neighbor who has less square footage, one story. no more upgrades than me.... I think they pull prices out of their asses. PLUS we would not be able to sell our homes at the price they claim. we are doing the petition thing.
I know what you are saying......My lot is also in Destiny West. Here is another example of the assessors arbitrary valuation.
My neighbor (to the south) has a home on his lot. They have the market value of his home at $850K, but his assessed tax value at $395K and with his homestead exemption, his taxes are lower than mine...and I just have a vacant lot.
Go figure.

[destinsm]

I know what you are saying......My lot is also in Destiny West. Here is another example of the assessors arbitrary valuation.
My neighbor (to the south) has a home on his lot. They have the market value of his home at $850K, but his assessed tax value at $395K and with his homestead exemption, his taxes are lower than mine...and I just have a vacant lot.
Go figure.

I believe his assessed tax value reflects the fact that he has it homestead... Look into the Florida Save our Homes tax law... http://www.qpublic.net/okaloosa/save-our-homes.html

Speculators and investors are going to get burned on these tax reassasements...

Primary homeowners just need to worry about insurance... Investors, Both!!!

[dsilvar]

I believe his assessed tax value reflects the fact that he has it homestead... Look into the Florida Save our Homes tax law... http://www.qpublic.net/okaloosa/save-our-homes.html

Speculators and investors are going to get burned on these tax reassasements...

Primary homeowners just need to worry about insurance... Investors, Both!!!
Homestead exemption is only $25000....not $400000!!!
Honest reassesments are welcome...just dont pull it out of your as*!!

[destinsm]

Homestead exemption is only $25000....not $400000!!!
Honest reassesments are welcome...just dont pull it out of your as*!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsilvar
I know what you are saying......My lot is also in Destiny West. Here is another example of the assessors arbitrary valuation.
My neighbor (to the south) has a home on his lot. They have the market value of his home at $850K, but his assessed tax value at $395K and with his homestead exemption, his taxes are lower than mine...and I just have a vacant lot.
Go figure.

You must not have read the link... Yes the homestead exemption is only $25k...

But if your neighbor bought his place say oh many moons ago when prices were half of what they are today... (4 years ago!!!!)...

His assessed taxable value would have been capped at a 3% raise max, per year.... So as your market value has doubled in that time frame... his assessed value has gone up approximately 15% max from his purchasing point.........................

[dsilvar]

His assessed taxable value would have been capped at a 3% raise max, per year.... So as your market value has doubled in that time frame... his assessed value has gone up approximately 15% max from his purchasing point.........................
Your right..thanks.

[TooFarTampa]

I believe his assessed tax value reflects the fact that he has it homestead... Look into the Florida Save our Homes tax law... http://www.qpublic.net/okaloosa/save-our-homes.html

Speculators and investors are going to get burned on these tax reassasements...
Primary homeowners just need to worry about insurance... Investors, Both!!!

If they didn't know the law before they bought, that is their own fault. There is nothing secretive about Florida's Save-Our-Homes cap. It is what it is, and anyone who bought a second home or investment property with the idea or hope that the values would skyrocket theoretically should have known that their taxes would follow suit. The insurance crisis is something no one could have predicted, but property taxes are pretty clear-cut.

[destinsm]

If they didn't know the law before they bought, that is their own fault. There is nothing secretive about Florida's Save-Our-Homes cap. It is what it is, and anyone who bought a second home or investment property with the idea or hope that the values would skyrocket theoretically should have known that their taxes would follow suit. The insurance crisis is something no one could have predicted, but property taxes are pretty clear-cut.

See above from Dsilvar... Not everyone is aware of the RE tax laws in FL.

[TooFarTampa]

See above from Dsilvar... Not everyone is aware of the RE tax laws in FL.

But they should be before they purchase in FL! :confused: Due diligence. Sorry. :idontno:

Edit: Let me clarify by saying it sounds as if the assessments as a whole are too high based on current market values, and that IS unfair, and should be contested. Statewide, the unwritten but often referred to rule of thumb is that properties are usually assessed at about 80 percent of their actual market value. That has held true for us in Pinellas, Hillsborough and Walton counties. Whether you pay taxes on that full assessment then depends on whether you are homesteaded or not.

[Smiling JOe]

You're petitioning because they valued your home too low? :confused:That is what I was thinking. Go ahead, tell them about your neighbor's higher assessed value. Surely, they will not increase yours.

[Smiling JOe]

Maybe so..we were gleefull as values went up and now not so gleefull as prices come down and inventory goes up...but that does not give the county assessor the right to see only one side of the coin. If I put my lot on the market for what the assessor says its worth, I am sure it would languish on the "market" for years.
It aint right..I tell ya.

It is my understanding that the Tax Assessor is to base the assessed value on properties sold in close proximity to your property. With sales being so slow, there may not be any other properties which have recently sold in your area, thereby leaving the assessed values at higher levels than actual values.

Perhaps there are other things which determine the County's assessed value. I guess you could always crowd the market with even more inventory by listing your property at a price much lower than your assessed value, showing the Property Appraiser that the assessed value in your case is way too high. You wouldn't actually have to sell your property, but you may still have to pay the brokerage fee if your agent brings you a full priced offer based.

[SHELLY]

That is what I was thinking. Go ahead, tell them about your neighbor's higher assessed value. Surely, they will not increase yours.

I'm betting the assessment irregularities have something to do with granite counter tops :biggrin:

[dsilvar]

I'm betting the assessment irregularities have something to do with granite counter tops :biggrin:
Whoa guys...I am fully aware of Fl's homestead rules and the 3% cap. Just didn’t read it into that particular example.
Nice to be protected by homestead rules..while its open season on non- homesteaders. Now that’s fair and equitable!!
No matter..that’s not the point..the point is that fair market value of any property can truly only be determined when it sells..otherwise its educated speculation...but speculation nonetheless.
In a falling value RE market the last person you want to be bullish about valuations is the local property assessor. He simply will not be able to make his case...look at SJ's recent RE sales.
You simply cannot take the 2% that sold at exorbitant prices and extrapolate fair market pricing for the 98% that are not on the market or for properties that havent sold as yet.
To raise my property valuation a half million in 2 years so that now on a postage size lot my taxes are one and a half times the taxes on my neighbors million dollar home is ludicrous.
And Shelly...you know what Hollibird meant to say..c'mon...

"I got my taxes (Okaloosa) $10,000. They claim my house (new, 2 story... destiny west) is worth $70,000 more than my neighbor who has more square footage, one story. no more upgrades than me.... I think they pull prices out of their asses. PLUS we would not be able to sell our homes at the price they claim. we are doing the petition thing."

I think:confused:

[Smiling JOe]

dsilva,
Shelly knows what hollibird is saying, and that is why he questioned it. Shelly is simply pointing out that sometimes we forget the big picture because we focus on the wrong thing. Forget about your neighbors house valuation, focus on your own. Otherwise, you may get into trouble, if not with the gov't, then maybe your neighbor. I know of a few houses which were built several years ago, that are still showing up on the tax rolls as vacant land. I say, lucky them.

[SHELLY]

And Shelly...you know what Hollibird meant to say..c'mon...

"I got my taxes (Okaloosa) $10,000. They claim my house (new, 2 story... destiny west) is worth $70,000 more than my neighbor who has more square footage, one story. no more upgrades than me.... I think they pull prices out of their asses. PLUS we would not be able to sell our homes at the price they claim. we are doing the petition thing."

I think:confused:

DS,

Someone is pulling something out of somewhere -- your reengineered version of Hollibird's statement makes even less sense than the original.

SJ is right on the money. If the tax guy is under-assessing...where do I sign up???

One of the tax assessor's flying monkeys showed up on my doorstep right after Hurricane Dennis; he was snooping around for a look-see at a new storage area I had built (apparently they've been viewing a lot of satellite images) and updated his records to increase my property value.

You questioned whether it is right for homesteaders to pay less than non-homesteaders? Damn straight it is! Especially since we're the folks who have the vote and have to suffer 24/7 with the lunatics running the asylum up in Talla. There are other states with a more "equitable" property tax system for residents and investulators alike--maybe it would be a better choice to buy somewhere else...there's certainly plenty to chose from since it's a buyer's market in those states too.

[Pirate]

Taxes are supposed to be fair and equitable? Hell I didn't know. :funn:

[dsilvar]

DS,
You questioned whether it is right for homesteaders to pay less than non-homesteaders? Damn straight it is! Especially since we're the folks who have the vote and have to suffer 24/7 with the lunatics running the asylum up in Talla. There are other states with a more "equitable" property tax system for residents and investulators alike--maybe it would be a better choice to buy somewhere else...there's certainly plenty to chose from since it's a buyer's market in those states too.
Shelly,
I am invested in the states of Oregon and Washington.
Both these states have very fair and equitable property tax systems.
Fair to all property owners equally. Ergo: equitable.

There is inherently something discriminatory about your bias against non-homesteaders. OK for us to pay taxes to subsidize your life style and local goverment, but not good enough to be treated "equitably".

I don't quite get your rant on "suffering" state goverment or voting. But all that is academic. I have chosen Florida to be my home state..that is still permissible ya?

This afternoon, I recieved a call from the Okaloosa property assessor..He was sympathetic to my point of view and has agreed to relook at his assessment of lots in Destiny West.
I feel sure I will get a more equitable assesment. Don't get me wrong..I am glad to pay my due taxes on that lot..equitable or not, under homestead exemption or not...because in the end (10 years and $100,000 in taxes later) I will come out ahead..gauronteed!

On a personal note tho'..I really do like your take on things, Shelly, your dry sense of humor and width of knowledge. But there is something visceral about your reaction to "investulators in Florida" that eats at your soul. and that saddens me. Thats all bro'
Peace.

[dsilvar]

Taxes are supposed to be fair and equitable? Hell I didn't know. :funn:
Pirate..shutup dumbass.:floor:

[TooFarTampa]

Just wanted to point out that even if you are a Florida resident, it doesn't make the property taxes equitable, county-to-county. Our millage rate in Hillsborough is north of 28 :eek: where by comparison, in Walton it is under 10. The taxes in Walton County can end up being a bargain even for those who don't homestead. Depending on your perspective of course. Obviously there are many, many more services, schools, etc. here so a higher millage rate probably is justified, but one that is three times higher? C'mon. You can't blame investulators for that. Blame this one on the lunatics that SHELLY refers to.

[Bob]

DS,

Someone is pulling something out of somewhere -- your reengineered version of Hollibird's statement makes even less sense than the original.

SJ is right on the money. If the tax guy is under-assessing...where do I sign up???

One of the tax assessor's flying monkeys showed up on my doorstep right after Hurricane Dennis; he was snooping around for a look-see at a new storage area I had built (apparently they've been viewing a lot of satellite images) and updated his records to increase my property value.

You questioned whether it is right for homesteaders to pay less than non-homesteaders? Damn straight it is! Especially since we're the folks who have the vote and have to suffer 24/7 with the lunatics running the asylum up in Talla. There are other states with a more "equitable" property tax system for residents and investulators alike--maybe it would be a better choice to buy somewhere else...there's certainly plenty to chose from since it's a buyer's market in those states too.Nice "screw you, I've got mine" attitude. Goes perfect with a law degree and a glass of chianti!
The minute you sell and move within Florida, you fall victim to this abomination of a State Amendment. Save our Homes is born of the same thinking that cost shifts insurance shortfalls. Selfishness anyone???

[Pirate]

Pirate..shutup dumbass.:floor:

That was a lighthearted stab at one of the most annoying facts of life Dsilvar, taxes. Only you would make that a 3 word sentence and use it to question intelligence. I pay the inflated taxes just like you.

FYI for those who can read and type english. I have a lawyer in ATL who performs RE tax appeals for me and doesn't charge unless the appeal is successful. He recommended I not appeal the FL taxes. He has appealed properties and they raised the neighbors valuations, talk about making friends! I would have a professional address any valuation appeal.

[Mango]

The best way to fight an assessment is to spend the money and get a professional property appraisal to arm yourself when petitioning the assessors office. Don't use neighbors homes etc.

As far as homesteading, I believe that there should be caps for people who bought property as their primary residence AND have attained a certain age.
60+ for expample, since they may be on a fixed income, and their home values should not be the determining factor in the rate they pay for taxes.

Otherwise, I feel that taxes should be fair and equitable for everyone who owns property in the area. We may not live there full time as of yet, but surely have a vested interest in what goes on politically in all aspects.

If Florida was smart, they would have implemented a state mortgage tax, like we have in New York, when the real estate boom was going on and dipped their hands into the pockets of the investulators.

The people who bought for the long run, or have second homes DO have a vested interest in the area. Just because fiscally they can not live there full time, doesn't mean that they don't care.

[TooFarTampa]

As far as homesteading, I believe that there should be caps for people who bought property as their primary residence AND have attained a certain age. 60+ for expample, since they may be on a fixed income, and their home values should not be the determining factor in the rate they pay for taxes.

Mango, I believe that was one of the "solutions" tossed around during the last legislative session -- or maybe the one before that -- when the Save Our Homes Cap became (temporarily) a big issue. And modifying SOH in that manner makes some sense. The original purpose of the law after all was to make sure the little old ladies didn't lose their homes due to rising taxes, which I understand is a problem in some states.

Of course nothing was done. The reason it was discussed at all was because some braniacs came up with the idea that Florida homeowners should be able to "take their caps with them" when they downsized or moved up to a different home in Florida, which would obviously increase the inequity of the tax rolls, laying even more of the burden on the poor slobs just moving to Florida or buying their first homes or just not homesteading. There was a lot of discussion and hot air but no solutions. Just a precursor in that regard to the insurance crisis! Hoo boy! Now we have little old ladies losing their homes -- or just not insuring them -- because their insurance bill has tripled in the past two years. And again we have ... no solutions.

[iqueequeg]

You questioned whether it is right for homesteaders to pay less than non-homesteaders? Damn straight it is! Especially since we're the folks who have the vote and have to suffer 24/7 with the lunatics running the asylum up in Talla. There are other states with a more "equitable" property tax system for residents and investulators alike--maybe it would be a better choice to buy somewhere else...there's certainly plenty to chose from since it's a buyer's market in those states too.

Shelly seems to be making the case that a lower tax rate for homesteaders is equitable simply because residents have the political clout (via their vote) to make it happen (although then complains about the quality of the officials that are elected through that vote). He/she also obviously finds tourists and second homeowners annoying.

I’m sure Shelly will argue that if you don’t like it, you can lump it and leave the area. Indeed, I’m sure that between the break on homeowner’s insurance that year round residents receive, and the break on property taxes, many out of staters will do just that (sell). I think you’ll find, though, that those annoying people were supporting your roads, schools, and local services.

[ShallowsNole]

There's a break on homeowners' insurance? :blink:

Guys, I love all of you that have invested in Florida. I really do. However, if not for the Save Our Homes act vs the wild, assine, ludicrous jump in property values seen in SoWal two years ago, I would not have been able to keep my home. Even with homestead exemption, it is a stretch for us as our home was only built three years ago, and my homesteaded value is four times what my mother's value was on the same property when she passed away 15 years ago.

For a nonresident to tell me that the legal mechanism that allows me to keep my home, built on property that my father bought over sixty years ago (albeit waterfront), is unfair to them really raises my hackles. :pissed:

(Edited - I was going to point out something else, but between my employment and my brother running for school board, I have to remember to be politically correct. :( )

[Smiling JOe]

There's a break on homeowners' insurance? :blink:



The break is on your primary residence -- you get to buy insurance, as opposed to some people who have second homes in the area, who are being dropped because their house is not their primary residence.

Come on ShallowsNole, don't hold back just to be political. Let it out. Be politically incorrect. :popcorn:

[dsilvar]

Come on ShallowsNole, don't hold back just to be political. Let it out. Be politically incorrect. :popcorn:
He did..and then erased it!! It was very interesting.
I wont repeat it but seems like a great idea.
Very interesting about North Walton county indeed.

[SHELLY]

However, if not for the Save Our Homes act vs the wild, assine, ludicrous jump in property values seen in SoWal two years ago, I would not have been able to keep my home.

For a nonresident to tell me that the legal mechanism that allows me to keep my home, built on property that my father bought over sixty years ago (albeit waterfront), is unfair to them really raises my hackles. :pissed:


ShallowsNole hit the nail on the head.

If it wasn't for SOH, the Florida residents (young and old alike) who provide the manpower for the state's #1 industry (tourism) would have been flushed out of their homes over the last couple years by investulators who used lots, condos and houses like gambling chips.

I make no apologies for caring first and foremost about people whose primary homestead is at risk. It's not just the "little old lady" in the trailer....it's the nurse, the cop and the maid who cleans your condos.

When viewed by those folks making low-wage service jobs who only can <barely afford> ONE place to live, and are asked to pay more to help support someone's "investment" -- I guess "selfishness" is in the eye of the beholder.

[TooFarTampa]

ShallowsNole hit the nail on the head.

If it wasn't for SOH, the Florida residents (young and old alike) who provide the manpower for the state's #1 industry (tourism) would have been flushed out of their homes over the last couple years by investulators who used lots, condos and houses like gambling chips.

I make no apologies for caring first and foremost about people whose primary homestead is at risk. It's not just the "little old lady" in the trailer....it's the nurse, the cop and the maid who cleans your condos.

When viewed by those folks making low-wage service jobs who only can <barely afford> ONE place to live, and are asked to pay more to help support someone's "investment" -- I guess "selfishness" is in the eye of the beholder.

I agree wholeheartedly SHELLY. We read stories every day about schoolteachers and other middle-class folks who are truly getting squeezed, and may have to leave the state. It's appalling. While I do think the SOH cap is increasingly unfair to young people trying to buy a home and to good workers who want to relocate here, I would not want any rebalancing to affect nice people like ShallowsNole who just want to stay where they are. It is complex, which must be why nothing has been done yet. :roll:

I agree that non-homesteaders pretty much have to suck it up and deal when it comes to the property tax laws, but the fact that the law may soon no longer require Citizens to insure non-homesteaded properties is both outrageous and short-sighted. Such a move would not only force thousands of people into mortgage default, it would hurt tourism terribly because there would be fewer beach places to rent. That would mean fewer checks heading to the Walton County tax collector, right ;-) ? Everybody loses.

[John]

Re: Homestead Exemptions

A lot of folks around SoWal claim a homestead exemption when I know very well that they don't live here. If we disallowed these shenanigans then perhaps we could have a lower millage rate...

[iqueequeg]

There's a break on homeowners' insurance? :blink:


Recently passed stature SB 1980

http://www.namic.org/insbriefs/060515Florida.pdf

Long document, but my points about homeowner's insurance:

"Going forward, lawmakers also approved a new formula for handling future Citizens’ deficits. If a deficit occurs in any Citizens account, an assessment (up to 10 percent) will be levied on non-homestead properties, and those funds will be used to offset the deficit. If that assessment proves insufficient,the Citizens board will be allowed to levy an additional assessment up to 10 percent on all Citizens policyholders. That assessment will be collected when a policy is issued or renewed. Any remaining deficit will be covered through a statewide Citizens assessment under current procedures."

and also:

"Citizens also should accrue some relief on the types of risks it insures because of a provision in SB 1980 dealing with high-end properties. Beginning July 1, 2008, any personal lines residential structure or single condominium unit that has a combined dwelling and content replacement value of $1 million or more will be no longer eligible for the HRA. On the same date, non-homestead properties,regardless of their insured value, also will no longer be covered in HRA. However, owners of both types of properties will be allowed to reapply for Citizens coverage if they sign a sworn statement acknowledging that they have been declined by one admitted carrier and three surplus lines carriers."


Look, no one wants people to lose their homes. If you want to argue that the tax system is regressive, and that there's no better way to make it a little progressive than to put extra taxes on expensive homes, that's fine and makes sense. But Shelly's argument that people with low wage jobs are paying excess (property) taxes to support other's investments is flat out wrong - the reverse is true. (It's social security and regular income tax that makes low wage people support the wealthy).

[Smiling JOe]

Re: Homestead Exemptions

A lot of folks around SoWal claim a homestead exemption when I know very well that they don't live here. If we disallowed these shenanigans then perhaps we could have a lower millage rate...Not only do they minimize increasing assessed values, but they typically, also ditch taxes on the capital gains of their homesteaded (primary residence) when they sell it.

[SHELLY]

I agree that non-homesteaders pretty much have to suck it up and deal when it comes to the property tax laws, but the fact that the law may soon no longer require Citizens to insure non-homesteaded properties is both outrageous and short-sighted.

Citizens is also preparing to drop $1 million-plus homes, commercial properties (in some areas) and in-process construction from their roles as well. I understand they are attempting to set up separate insurance program for commercial properties which makes a lot of sense. Why should our <Florida icon> resident little old lady on fixed income help to subsidize commercial businesses on top of providing "10% kickers" when the funds run out? Ditto for mansions on the water, investment properties and developer's construction projects. A program dedicated to state residents only--properly priced based on actual risk--is the RIGHT way to go. All others should be broken out into a separate state-run insurance pool.

[Smiling JOe]

All this talk of taxes on investment property and second or third homes has reminded me of something. Growing up, I was always under the assumption that beach homes were a luxury, which costs money. They were not considered investments, not much different than a person buying a Rolls Royce instead of a Ford LTD. It is a luxury. It seems that now, things have changed quite a bit. Beach homes may prove to be profitable over time, but let's face it, they are luxuries, not necessities, such as someone's primary residence.

Comments?

[SHELLY]

Re: Homestead Exemptions

A lot of folks around SoWal claim a homestead exemption when I know very well that they don't live here. If we disallowed these shenanigans then perhaps we could have a lower millage rate...

You mean like the situation with Florida's Chief Legal Officer and Candidate for Govenor Charlie Crist?: Home Sweet Homestead (http://www.sptimes.com/2006/02/18/Columns/Crist_s_home_sweet_ho.shtml)

"Tax returns provided some of the information that allowed us to report Friday that Crist rents a high-rise Bayfront Tower condominium in St. Petersburg from a man who has taken the $25,000 tax break on the condo for three years, even though he doesn't live there.

Crist didn't know Compton has been taking the homestead exemption since 2003.

Crist also said he didn't know it was wrong to do that (it's called "rental of homestead to constitute abandonment," Florida Statute 196.061)."

[SHELLY]

On a personal note tho'..I really do like your take on things, Shelly, your dry sense of humor and width of knowledge. But there is something visceral about your reaction to "investulators in Florida" that eats at your soul. and that saddens me. Thats all bro'
Peace.

DS,

Please don't be sad :( I'm doing just swell :biggrin: ...Just remember, Bob sez the future will be bright. See, here comes the nurse with my medication.

The next beer to cry in is on me.
Cheers!

Your Friend, Shel

[Mango]

You mean like the situation with Florida's Chief Legal Officer and Candidate for Govenor Charlie Crist?: Home Sweet Homestead (http://www.sptimes.com/2006/02/18/Columns/Crist_s_home_sweet_ho.shtml)

"Tax returns provided some of the information that allowed us to report Friday that Crist rents a high-rise Bayfront Tower condominium in St. Petersburg from a man who has taken the $25,000 tax break on the condo for three years, even though he doesn't live there.

Crist didn't know Compton has been taking the homestead exemption since 2003.

Crist also said he didn't know it was wrong to do that (it's called "rental of homestead to constitute abandonment," Florida Statute 196.061)."

Here's another article on what Crist proposes for the insurance industry
Crist: Large Insurers Shouldn't Spin off Florida Companies (http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2006/08/10/71330.htm)

[spinDrAtl]

While 2nd homeowners and investors should pay more than those in a primary residence (which they do if they have no homestead exemption), any attempts 'stick it to the interlopers' as it were could backfire. Whether it is a primary home or not, a luxury or not, increasing taxes and insurance on those folks to unreasonable levels does not do anyone any good either. Many of the 2nd homeowners have owned in the area for a long time and are no more speculating that someone with a primary residence. They may have a reasonable mortgage and enough income to support the property, but if you tax everyone out of the market, which home do you think is going to go up for sale or into foreclosure? Not the primary residence, wherever it may be. And of course while that would not be as serious as someone losing their primary residence, a bunch of foreclosures/defaults/properties for sale doesn't help the local economy either.

Face it, the area is a tourist area and is supported to a great deal by 2nd homeowners and renters of those properties.

[TooFarTampa]

All this talk of taxes on investment property and second or third homes has reminded me of something. Growing up, I was always under the assumption that beach homes were a luxury, which costs money. They were not considered investments, not much different than a person buying a Rolls Royce instead of a Ford LTD. It is a luxury. It seems that now, things have changed quite a bit. Beach homes may prove to be profitable over time, but let's face it, they are luxuries, not necessities, such as someone's primary residence.

Comments?

Totally agree. Even if you consider it an investment, for many people in Florida, an investment IS a luxury.

SHELLY, I agree that a beach rental property being on Citizens does not have the same importance as our little old lady insuring her '50s ranch, but who is talking about subsidizing? Citizens is requiring itself to be actuarily sound by 2008. So what difference does it make whom they cover, as long as the rate is fair? They are just trying to get rid of policy holders, and I just would hate to see properties become truly uninsurable because of their status as a non-homesteaded property. Same with properties whose structures are valued at $1 million or more. If they can't get coverage on the private market (which is less and less available for such homes) and are happy to pay whatever is fair, why does it matter? I'm trying to imagine half of South Walton trying to procure coverage through Lloyds of London, and the idea is just appalling and seems unnecessary.

[ShallowsNole]

It's now after lunch and my blood sugar level is back up...so I'll go ahead and post what I think would be a swell idea in reference to Save Our Homes. It would impact those on fixed incomes some, but not much, and to me it seems more equitable.

Instead of exempting the the first $25K of the assessed value...I think it should be the second $25K that is exempted - between $25,000 and $50,000. In this manner, everyone pays something...and truly, property tax on a homestead valued at $25,000 isn't that much.

The politically incorrect comment involved some of my inlaws in North Walton, and they are really, truly good people who do not have a lot, but have all the love in the world to offer, and evidently think the world of me :wub: , and it was wrong of me to be snide. On the other hand, I did not have a lot of patience with my father-in-law when he called me, in a panic, to ask if I could find out why he lost his homestead exemption when he bought his new mobile home, because he got a property tax bill for $26.00. :blink:

[Pirate]

All this talk of taxes on investment property and second or third homes has reminded me of something. Growing up, I was always under the assumption that beach homes were a luxury, which costs money. They were not considered investments, not much different than a person buying a Rolls Royce instead of a Ford LTD. It is a luxury. It seems that now, things have changed quite a bit. Beach homes may prove to be profitable over time, but let's face it, they are luxuries, not necessities, such as someone's primary residence.

Comments?

Well stated, and true. However, much of the current value increases come from the fact that these homes for many owners have turned primarily into investments. I would own a home there regardless, it is a great place to be.

I also agree with Shallowsnole that the increasing values shouldn't displace long time residents, but if beachfront is a luxury then it just may happen over time.

It seems like the county is raising taxes simply because they are able. Has there been a huge shortfall in the budget as of late? It seems with so many properties with new structures adding to the tax base that the higher dollar figure of taxes collected would easily cover any increase in cost of services. This seems to be double dipping to me. Shouldn't there be a basis for the justification to increase taxes? Just because a property value increases doesn't mean the cost to service the same property goes up as well. This seems to fall under the greed category like so many other things. Hasn't the tax revenue already increased markedly in recent years? Once a government agency has additional funds it is impossible to pare them back and if the county is raising taxes with no increase in costs that doesn't bode well for locals or part-timers. Maybe one of you in the know can tell us, where is the urgency to collect more funds coming from and where are these funds allocated?

[Smiling JOe]

Well stated, and true. However, much of the current value increases come from the fact that these homes for many owners have turned primarily into investments. I would own a home there regardless, it is a great place to be.

I also agree with Shallowsnole that the increasing values shouldn't displace long time residents, but if beachfront is a luxury then it just may happen over time.

It seems like the county is raising taxes simply because they are able. Has there been a huge shortfall in the budget as of late? It seems with so many properties with new structures adding to the tax base that the higher dollar figure of taxes collected would easily cover any increase in cost of services. This seems to be double dipping to me. Shouldn't there be a basis for the justification to increase taxes? Just because a property value increases doesn't mean the cost to service the same property goes up as well. This seems to fall under the greed category like so many other things. Hasn't the tax revenue already increased markedly in recent years? Once a government agency has additional funds it is impossible to pare them back and if the county is raising taxes with no increase in costs that doesn't bode well for locals or part-timers. Maybe one of you in the know can tell us, where is the urgency to collect more funds coming from and where are these funds allocated?

The last person you will ever hear requesting more taxes is me, but let me clarify a minor point. In the technical sense, WalCo did not "raise taxes." Rather, taxes were lowered. It is the assessed values which were increased due to the sales in 2005, which accounted for one of the largest price increases in property value ever. The milage rate (taxable rate) for Walton County has decreased for the last two years, and they are predicting a decrease this year. I have lived in a few towns, both large and small. Never before, have I lived in a town where the milage rate was as low as it is here. Currently, it is just under 1%. Most towns in which I have lived, have a milage rate of at least double that, if not close to triple that. Assessed values were ridiculously low in WalCo, up until last year when the assessed values of the majority of properties in WalCo finally came more in line with the reality of market value. I recall once owning a piece of land which I could have easily sold for $145K, and the assessed value was $15K. That is just one of many examples of the numerous properties which I have seen given a huge break, when looking at the Prop Appraiser's page. I think the growth of WalCo was too fast for the County to keep pace with, thus they were behind. Now, they have caught up, and the market has fallen back a bit, causing many property owners' assessed values to look out of whack to their own detriment. I bet you never heard these people complain when the difference was in their own favor. ;-) This is the first year, that we will see some unjust variances, weighing against us property owners, between the assessed value and actual market values.

I hope I have cleared that up a little bit for those of you not in the know. ;-) Please note that my statement above does not mean that I think WalCo gov't spends money correctly on services and parks for its taxpayers.

[Bob]

Everyone is doing a great job of rationalizing their own viewpoint, but the fact remains that SOH and the Citizen's moneygrab are both founded on preferential treatment of a segment of society by screwing over the majority. If I move in my own neighborhood here in Orange County to the same size home, my taxes will triple. Now why do you think this is a good thing. What do you say to young families trying to buy their first home? How about someone who has outgrown their current home. I can't pay my share, so here's the tab?? This is how you get someone paying property taxes of $1800/year living next to someone paying $5400/ year. At the beach, the numbers are much higher. This is the kind of policy you expect in third world countries, where a ruling class insures its position forever. Am I to feel sorry for those whose property is worth ten times what they paid for it because the carrying costs are now high? Oh I see, my neighbor can deal with it, not me.

[Mango]

While 2nd homeowners and investors should pay more than those in a primary residence (which they do if they have no homestead exemption), any attempts 'stick it to the interlopers' as it were could backfire. Whether it is a primary home or not, a luxury or not, increasing taxes and insurance on those folks to unreasonable levels does not do anyone any good either. Many of the 2nd homeowners have owned in the area for a long time and are no more speculating that someone with a primary residence. They may have a reasonable mortgage and enough income to support the property, but if you tax everyone out of the market, which home do you think is going to go up for sale or into foreclosure? Not the primary residence, wherever it may be. And of course while that would not be as serious as someone losing their primary residence, a bunch of foreclosures/defaults/properties for sale doesn't help the local economy either.

Face it, the area is a tourist area and is supported to a great deal by 2nd homeowners and renters of those properties.

Well said. :clap_1:
Also, homes were purchased as long term investments as well. (Aside from the flippers) people do buy property as long term investments and it becomes a "business" as far their tax reporting is concerned. By singling out businesses, you are giving a message akin to take your business elsewhere.

My rental property may be the one of the only assets I have for income 25 years from now (besides other investments) when there is no Social Security (which most likely there will not be any) of which I paid many tax dollars for.

I don't consider my property my property a "luxury", especially when I am full of paint or mailing checks to the Dept. of Revenue.
After purchasing, I also found out that I would be paying more for water and electric. :blink: I pay a commercial rate for water. This I was told, was to subsidize a lower rate for primary residents.

Of course like every community, doctors, nurses, police officers are needed. But why is it my responsibility to subsidize primary residents lifestyles at the beach, when my business is creating these jobs?

[dsilvar]

It seems like the county is raising taxes simply because they are able. Has there been a huge shortfall in the budget as of late? It seems with so many properties with new structures adding to the tax base that the higher dollar figure of taxes collected would easily cover any increase in cost of services. This seems to be double dipping to me. Shouldn't there be a basis for the justification to increase taxes? Just because a property value increases doesn't mean the cost to service the same property goes up as well. This seems to fall under the greed category like so many other things. Hasn't the tax revenue already increased markedly in recent years? Once a government agency has additional funds it is impossible to pare them back and if the county is raising taxes with no increase in costs that doesn't bode well for locals or part-timers. Maybe one of you in the know can tell us, where is the urgency to collect more funds coming from and where are these funds allocated?
Pirate dude..that was brilliant..I am in awe, man. That there is THE moral crux of the whole matter. You put your finger right on it.
There should be a reason for collecting more taxes. And there is'nt. There should be an inverse realtionship between increasing property values and the millage rate. And there is'nt. The county budget should be funded and no more. End of story.
Quad erat demonstratum.

[SHELLY]

It was the RE speculation and money grab that went on in Florida in just the last couple of years (helped along by the Easy Money Fed) that drove up property prices--which resulted in higher taxes.

Like Newton's Law #3: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Investing is about risk and reward....We all can rattle off in our sleep the substantial rewards of investing in Florida real estate, however, in a state whose motto is "WE HAVE NO STATE INCOME TAXES," dealing with non-homestead property taxes under Florida's rules is the "risk" side of the equation (along with other carry costs).

People are now saying that "homeowners insurance" is Florida's next "new state tax." The Price of Paradise just keeps going up. :blink:

------------------
Tax cap saves homeowners $4 billion
Paul Flemming
News Journal capital bureau

TALLAHASSEE -- Floridians paid $26 billion in property taxes this year, with some residents sharing in a $4 billion break from the Save Our Homes cap.

That's an average $1,130 savings this year for homestead owners. The lost tax revenue gets made up by nonhomestead property, a shift that a governor's office analysis says raises the share of the property-tax burden by 19 percent on those taxpayers.

On Tuesday, Gov. Jeb Bush's Property Tax Reform Committee took the initial steps of a 15-month journey to make recommendations about the state's tax structure. The group is one of three taking a look at property taxes.

The Legislature this year rejected proposals that would make Save Our Homes protections against increasing assessed value portable to new homestead purchases. Instead, it ordered a study.

"I think the Legislature recognized it is a very complicated issue," said Don DeFosset, a retiree from Tampa who is chairman of the Bush committee. "It's not something you can quickly legislate and have a panacea."

The topic is complicated enough that the analyses presented Tuesday didn't go unchallenged. Ken Wilkinson, Lee County property appraiser and author of the Save Our Homes amendment passed by voters in 1992, said the proposition that property taxes get shifted to nonhomestead owners is wrong.

"If you did away with (Save Our Homes), it wouldn't mean others' (tax rates) would go down. It's that primary homeowners' would go up," Wilkinson said.

To sort it all out, Bush in June created his tax committee and charged it with making recommendations to both the Legislature and the tax and budget commission. A final report from the committee, after two interim reports, is due in December 2007.

"This will give the Legislature or the Constitutional Revision Commission that will convene in January ... some of the information so they can have a running start at it next year," Bush said Tuesday.

The constitution calls for a Taxation and Budget Reform Commission to convene in 2007 and review the state's tax policy.

Slow study and careful consideration may not be quick enough for homeowners.

Sen. Burt Saunders, a Naples Republican who's a member of the governor's committee, said that if the Legislature doesn't act to put a portability question on the ballot in 2008, a citizens' petition will. Saunders said lawmakers should take the lead.

"If the Legislature does it, we'll be able to put some restrictions on it," Saunders said. "If it's done by citizens' petition, it's likely to be wide open like Save Our Homes was."

Wilkinson said the constitutional amendment has worked exactly as planned. He said a petition drive to get portability on the ballot remains an option.

"I'm hopeful that Save Our Homes doesn't become a whipping boy," Winkinson told the committee. "It has done many wonderful things. I couldn't be prouder."

Bush's tax committee will begin a round of monthly public meetings around the state through the rest of the year. The schedule is still being worked out.

[Pirate]

The last person you will ever hear requesting more taxes is me, but let me clarify a minor point. In the technical sense, WalCo did not "raise taxes." Rather, taxes were lowered. It is the assessed values which were increased due to the sales in 2005, which accounted for one of the largest price increases in property value ever. The milage rate (taxable rate) for Walton County has decreased for the last two years, and they are predicting a decrease this year. I have lived in a few towns, both large and small. Never before, have I lived in a town where the milage rate was as low as it is here. Currently, it is just under 1%. Most towns in which I have lived, have a milage rate of at least double that, if not close to triple that. Assessed values were ridiculously low in WalCo, up until last year when the assessed values of the majority of properties in WalCo finally came more in line with the reality of market value. I recall once owning a piece of land which I could have easily sold for $145K, and the assessed value was $15K. That is just one of many examples of the numerous properties which I have seen given a huge break, when looking at the Prop Appraiser's page. I think the growth of WalCo was too fast for the County to keep pace with, thus they were behind. Now, they have caught up, and the market has fallen back a bit, causing many property owners' assessed values to look out of whack to their own detriment. I bet you never heard these people complain when the difference was in their own favor. ;-) This is the first year, that we will see some unjust variances, weighing against us property owners, between the assessed value and actual market values.

I hope I have cleared that up a little bit for those of you not in the know. ;-) Please note that my statement above does not mean that I think WalCo gov't spends money correctly on services and parks for its taxpayers.

You are right SJ I should have stated raising valuations which in effect raises the amount of tax collected. The millage rate actually appears to be just over 1% and is much higher than most resort towns. In Palm County the rate is under .6%. Even the person from Walton County interviewed in the following article states the county doesn't need the money but they are raising the valuations anyway. If you raise the valuations and don't lower the millage rate that is raising taxes any way you technically cut it. If you raise valuations and don't need additional funds, lower the millage rate. It's just common sense. Once this money goes into the black hole of the government it will never come back

From the Walton Tribune:

County taxes set to increase

By Robbie Schwartz
The Walton Tribune

Published July 19, 2006

WALTON COUNTY — Already hit with an expected increase in their tax bill due to a rise in needs of the Walton County Board of Education, county residents can expect another increase as a result of county taxes as well.

But while taxes will increase, county officials say it is more so because of the increase in property values rather than the county needing more money to operate.

“We have done a good job over the past six years to keep the millage rate the same,” Walton County Board of Commissioners Chairman Kevin Little said. “But the increase in the tax rate is because property values increased as a whole throughout the county.”

The Commission voted to keep the millage rate at 9.585 for those in Loganville, Monroe and Social Circle and at 10.064 for everyone else in the county.

The disparity is based on who provides fire services.

Keeping the millage rate the same as last year generates an increase of 0.97 percent over the rollback rate for the fire districts of Monroe, Loganville and Social Circle and 2.81 percent for the rest of the County. Overall, officials said keeping the millage rate the same instead of using the rollback rate generates a “much needed” $2.28 million increase (10.24 percent) in tax revenue.

The county has adopted a $44.79 million budget, an increase of more than $2.2 million over last year’s final budget.

The bulk of the increase comes as a result of capital needs of the county, where Little said that if the county made a cut this year, “these needs would continue to re-surface.”

Some of the 38 capital needs that were granted in the FY’07 budget include eight new patrol cars for the Walton County Sheriff’s Office at a projected cost of $160,000; work on the Public Works Department building that necessitated $75,000 for improvements; re-mounts for EMS vehicles projected to cost $140,000; and to facilitate the ability to pay tax bills online, officials allocated $7,500 to get a service up and running that will allow taxpayers to search, view and pay their bill online.

Little said the county has put a freeze on all new hires for the county and personnel increases in the budget were a result of cost of living adjustments.

In addition, Little said the county has allocated some money to provide for a staffing and market analysis to see if the pay and number of people per department is on par with counties around Walton.

Perhaps one of the biggest increases for the budget came as a result of fuel costs.

Gas as a whole constituted 10.8 percent of the FY06 budget while this year it comprises 17 percent of the proposed FY07 budget for a tally of $740,500.

This year, officials based budget costs on $2.90 — and that may not even be enough as gas prices are projected to be more at more than $3 a gallon in the coming months.

The exact dollar amount of the resulting millage rate increase would depend on the increased value of a given home

[Smiling JOe]

You are right SJ I should have stated raising valuations which in effect raises the amount of tax collected. The millage rate actually appears to be just over 1% and is much higher than most resort towns. In Palm County the rate is under .6%. Even the person from Walton County interviewed in the following article states the county doesn't need the money but they are raising the valuations anyway. If you raise the valuations and don't lower the millage rate that is raising taxes any way you technically cut it. If you raise valuations and don't need additional funds, lower the millage rate. It's just common sense. Once this money goes into the black hole of the government it will never come back

From the Walton Tribune:

County taxes set to increase

By Robbie Schwartz
The Walton Tribune

Published July 19, 2006

WALTON COUNTY — Already hit with an expected increase in their tax bill due to a rise in needs of the Walton County Board of Education, county residents can expect another increase as a result of county taxes as well.

But while taxes will increase, county officials say it is more so because of the increase in property values rather than the county needing more money to operate.

“We have done a good job over the past six years to keep the millage rate the same,” Walton County Board of Commissioners Chairman Kevin Little said. “But the increase in the tax rate is because property values increased as a whole throughout the county.” (sj's notes: someone doesn't understand taxes, or he is misquoted.;-) I could see why readers would think that this is not rightful.)

The Commission voted to keep the millage rate at 9.585 for those in Loganville, Monroe and Social Circle and at 10.064 for everyone else in the county.

The disparity is based on who provides fire services.

Keeping the millage rate the same as last year generates an increase of 0.97 percent over the rollback rate for the fire districts of Monroe, Loganville and Social Circle and 2.81 percent for the rest of the County. Overall, officials said keeping the millage rate the same instead of using the rollback rate generates a “much needed” $2.28 million increase (10.24 percent) in tax revenue.

The county has adopted a $44.79 million budget, an increase of more than $2.2 million over last year’s final budget.

The bulk of the increase comes as a result of capital needs of the county, where Little said that if the county made a cut this year, “these needs would continue to re-surface.”

Some of the 38 capital needs that were granted in the FY’07 budget include eight new patrol cars for the Walton County Sheriff’s Office at a projected cost of $160,000; work on the Public Works Department building that necessitated $75,000 for improvements; re-mounts for EMS vehicles projected to cost $140,000; and to facilitate the ability to pay tax bills online, officials allocated $7,500 to get a service up and running that will allow taxpayers to search, view and pay their bill online.

Little said the county has put a freeze on all new hires for the county and personnel increases in the budget were a result of cost of living adjustments.

In addition, Little said the county has allocated some money to provide for a staffing and market analysis to see if the pay and number of people per department is on par with counties around Walton.

Perhaps one of the biggest increases for the budget came as a result of fuel costs.

Gas as a whole constituted 10.8 percent of the FY06 budget while this year it comprises 17 percent of the proposed FY07 budget for a tally of $740,500.

This year, officials based budget costs on $2.90 — and that may not even be enough as gas prices are projected to be more at more than $3 a gallon in the coming months.

The exact dollar amount of the resulting millage rate increase would depend on the increased value of a given home.


Pirate, now that is funny. :floor: I may have to call you "Shelly," for pulling articles off the web which don't apply appropriately. We don't have a newspaper by that name. The article which you pulled, must be applicable to Walton Co, GA since the towns mentioned happen to be in Walton Co, GA. Also, Kevin Little, the Chairman of the Board of County Commissioners whom is quoted is not on our Board. Our Chairman is Scott Brannon. Not to mention, our tax rates did not increase. Two years ago, the milage was just over 12 mills. Now they are at 9+ mills, and they are talking about lowering them again since the assessed values have increased.

No harm, no foul. ;-)

[Pirate]

Heh.:oops: I will leave the post up in it's entirety then to entertain people. I still think the millage rate should be lowered.

[Pirate]

Pirate dude..that was brilliant..I am in awe, man. That there is THE moral crux of the whole matter. You put your finger right on it.
There should be a reason for collecting more taxes. And there is'nt. There should be an inverse realtionship between increasing property values and the millage rate. And there is'nt. The county budget should be funded and no more. End of story.
Quad erat demonstratum.

Finally we agree on something! :clap_1:

[Hollibird]

if I didnt make sense...I meant i wish they would value it even lower. I just meant that the totals they are coming up with are so wrong....

[Mango]

Heh.:oops: I will leave the post up in it's entirety then to entertain people. I still think the millage rate should be lowered.

Pirate, I was entertained by the content. My godson wrote better articles in his freshman year at Boston University! ;-)

[Smiling JOe]

Heh.:oops: I will leave the post up in it's entirety then to entertain people. I still think the millage rate should be lowered. Me too! Anyone who wants us to increase the millage rate, please raise your hand so that we can publicly stone you. Kurt, do you have any stoned smilies which we can use?:funn:

Pirate, I like you sense of humor. If you cannot laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at. You've got character. :D

[Hollibird]

I guess shelly really didn't know what I meant. Of course I dont want my value to be raised up to my neighbors. I think they should all be lowered even more. I was stating that the values were all over the place and gave that example. I couldn't sell my house in this market for $740K if I tried. They over assessed me, but they practically raped my neighbor.

[SHELLY]

I guess shelly really didn't know what I meant. Of course I dont want my value to be raised up to my neighbors. I think they should all be lowered even more. I was stating that the values were all over the place and gave that example. I couldn't sell my house in this market for $740K if I tried. They over assessed me, but they practically raped my neighbor.

I believe the disconnect came when you mentioned in your post that you were going to petition your tax rate--even though it was lower than your neighbor's, who had a house inferior to your own.

For your own protection, you may want to check with everyone on the block, because if you go down there alone, you may let loose the tax hounds who will sniff out some more "best kept secrets" in the 'hood. ;-)

[jhelms]

Otherwise, I feel that taxes should be fair and equitable for everyone who owns property in the area. We may not live there full time as of yet, but surely have a vested interest in what goes on politically in all aspects.

The people who bought for the long run, or have second homes DO have a vested interest in the area. Just because fiscally they can not live there full time, doesn't mean that they don't care.

Amen!

[Beachlover2]

Got our proposed tax bill for a property we own in Santa Rosa and it went down a little - still nothing on the condos - but I am sure they will be in the mail soon as well.

[jhelms]

While 2nd homeowners and investors should pay more than those in a primary residence (which they do if they have no homestead exemption), any attempts 'stick it to the interlopers' as it were could backfire. Whether it is a primary home or not, a luxury or not, increasing taxes and insurance on those folks to unreasonable levels does not do anyone any good either. Many of the 2nd homeowners have owned in the area for a long time and are no more speculating that someone with a primary residence. They may have a reasonable mortgage and enough income to support the property, but if you tax everyone out of the market, which home do you think is going to go up for sale or into foreclosure? Not the primary residence, wherever it may be. And of course while that would not be as serious as someone losing their primary residence, a bunch of foreclosures/defaults/properties for sale doesn't help the local economy either.

Face it, the area is a tourist area and is supported to a great deal by 2nd homeowners and renters of those properties.


Totally agree... great statements.

[laurawood]

my property taxes are 30% more this year than last year. Homeowner insurance on a double wide trailer that cost $30,000 altogether was $120 a month for me, my insurance carrier notified me that it will be triple this year. $360 a month to insure a trailer in defuniak?????!!!!!!
does anyone know of a better insurance company?

[Smiling JOe]

better insurance company? Isn't that an oxymoron?

[TooFarTampa]

my property taxes are 30% more this year than last year. Homeowner insurance on a double wide trailer that cost $30,000 altogether was $120 a month for me, my insurance carrier notified me that it will be triple this year. $360 a month to insure a trailer in defuniak?????!!!!!!
does anyone know of a better insurance company?

I met someone last week who is facing the same thing. Her doublewide in Citrus County was up for renewal by Citizens and it was going to cost her $3300/year. She dropped it and talked to her mortgage company about getting insurance only for the amount of the balance of her mortgage, and they found her such a policy. Saved her a lot but offers very little protection. :(

[goodwitch58]

There are lots of things going on in Tallahassee(gov and legislature). Ya'll might think about contacting your representatives and writing the governor
with your insurance concerns.


Even those who are not Florida residents have the ability to make an impact on our leadership because of the tourism/second home economy factors.

Just a thought--let those who have the power to make a difference, know how you feel! (in another life, I was a lobbyist)::D

[Smiling JOe]

For anyone planning an appeal for the taxes, if you need some comps pulled on closed sales or listings which haven't sold at prices higher than your assessed value, feel free to ask me, and I will help you when I am able. I am uncertain if it will carry any weight in your appeal, but you can use it if you feel it will help state your side of the case.

[laurawood]

There are lots of things going on in Tallahassee(gov and legislature). Ya'll might think about contacting your representatives and writing the governor
with your insurance concerns.


Even those who are not Florida residents have the ability to make an impact on our leadership because of the tourism/second home economy factors.

Just a thought--let those who have the power to make a difference, know how you feel! (in another life, I was a lobbyist)::D

me too!!!!
I will email our government staff. I was through citizens insurance as well.
Its just hard to be self insured.

[Sandcastle]

For anyone planning an appeal for the taxes, if you need some comps pulled on closed sales or listings which haven't sold at prices higher than your assessed value, feel free to ask me, and I will help you when I am able. I am uncertain if it will carry any weight in your appeal, but you can use it if you feel it will help state your side of the case.

I’ll probably appeal the assessed values of a lot that I own in Seacrest Beach II. The assessed value increased from $494,500 last year to $600,000 this year. I can only identify one lot that sold in the entire development in 2006 and that lot sold for less than $400,000 (I believe). However, during the height of the buying frenzy in 2005 one lot sold for $710,000 – that lot is now listed for $675,000.

SJ, can you easily determine how many Seacrest Beach II lots are listed in the MLS, how many sold in 2006 and the actual selling prices? I’m just not sure that the sales statistics that I’m able to get from the Property Appraiser’s site are up to date. Please don’t spend a lot of time on this. I really feel that $600,000 for this lot is way out of line.

[Smiling JOe]

sandcastle,
I am slammed with business right now, but should have a chance to run the numbers for you later and can email them to you if you give me your email address. Send me a reminder pm of this message.
;-)

[waltondude]

Whoa guys...I am fully aware of Fl's homestead rules and the 3% cap. Just didn’t read it into that particular example.
Nice to be protected by homestead rules..while its open season on non- homesteaders. Now that’s fair and equitable!!
No matter..that’s not the point..the point is that fair market value of any property can truly only be determined when it sells..otherwise its educated speculation...but speculation nonetheless.

The system is so patently unfair that you can not even begin to win. Homesteaded property owners are the ones that get the protection. Why? Because for the most part they are voteres. When you take the pain of slowly rising taxes away from the voters, what do they do? They re-elect tax and spend wannabe Republicans who all seem to be undergoing an identity crisis as to what they are suppose to stand for. Now you want to contest the system, so you take your 'evidence' in front of a panel of these elected officials, who by granting you relief actually reduce the amount of money that they have available for things such as conference centers, parks, and silly pedestrian lighting systems. You argue your point, yet it is extremely likely that you do not even vote in this State, and then you expect to win. What is the incentive to them to grant you relief? Florida's property tax system currently falls on the back of the working poor who rent, commercial property which is used to provide jobs, and our number one asset, the tourist/2nd homeowner. And county government shows its appreciation by seeing just how high your taxes can be set, and then taxing the tourist again if they dare to even try to rent something down here. Fairness left this system a long time ago.

[waltondude]

Even those who are not Florida residents have the ability to make an impact on our leadership because of the tourism/second home economy factors.the governor
with your insurance concerns

Just a thought--let those who have the power to make a difference, know how you feel! (in another life, I was a lobbyist)::D


You must know something I don't because legislators have told me that they have little interest in the concerns of non-voting residents. You need to get the local real estate associations, chambers of commerce, building industry, to email local legislators and tell them if they do not fix this it is going to be an economic bust and cost all of these people jobs and money.

[waltondude]

I know of a few houses which were built several years ago, that are still showing up on the tax rolls as vacant land. I say, lucky them.


Save Our Homes is making criminals out of honest hard working citizens. Just a look through the tax rolls of whose who in Walton County that happen to own more than one home and you will find many that although seem to live and vote in DeFuniak Springs, our homesteading their vacation homes on the beach, resulting in protected valuations, that the rest of us make up in higher taxes.

It is not lucky them when they take advantage of the system. The rest of us pay more, pure and simple. But with the technology of today, I doubt that there are any homes missed. Pilcher and his team have done a great job of cleaning up the rolls over the last six years. I just do not see people getting away with whole houses not getting taxed. Now if he would just work on the people cheating the system by misfiling their homestead exemption. Funny thing, some of the people doing it are even current political candidates. If one of them were to get elected, their tax bill would jump up approx $6K next year when they refiled homestead exemption to the district that they are running in, the place that they have been living for two years now.

[waltondude]

Re: Homestead Exemptions

A lot of folks around SoWal claim a homestead exemption when I know very well that they don't live here. If we disallowed these shenanigans then perhaps we could have a lower millage rate...


The Walton County Taxpayers Association, www.waltontaxpayers.org are currently working on an anonymous reporting module for their website. This would allow you to forward this information without your identity to Pilcher to investigate and to correct. Plans are to also ask the TDC to investigate for bed tax collections also. If everyone would pay their fair share, and we could keep spending under control, all taxes would be lower.

[Smiling JOe]

]Save Our Homes is making criminals out of honest hard working citizens[/B]. ...

It is not lucky them when they take advantage of the system. The rest of us pay more, pure and simple. But with the technology of today, I doubt that there are any homes missed. ....

That is like saying that locks are made to keep honest people honest. It is possible for some to be honest and a criminal, but if they knowingly lie, they are not honest. :nono1:

You may doubt that homes are missed, but I know of homes which are missed.

[Smiling JOe]

I just finished calling the Prop Appraisers Office here in WalCo, FL regarding property taxes. The head man in charge, was not in, but he is going to return my call regarding prop taxes. I was told by another person who works in that office, that the 2006 Market Value is based on sales from 2005. That makes sense. However, the Notice of Proposed Prop Taxes lists two values near the bottom of the page: 1) market value last year, and 2) market value this year.

Correct me if I am wrong, but market value last year should be 2005, while market value this year should be 2006. Prop taxes are paid in arrears and IMO, Market value of property should be based on sales during the current year, not last year, if you want to get it correct and current. The down side to that story is that people will cry and moan if that is how the Prop Appraiser worked in a booming market like the one we recently had.

[TooFarTampa]

I just finished calling the Prop Appraisers Office here in WalCo, FL regarding property taxes. The head man in charge, was not in, but he is going to return my call regarding prop taxes. I was told by another person who works in that office, that the 2006 Market Value is based on sales from 2005. That makes sense. However, the Notice of Proposed Prop Taxes lists two values near the bottom of the page: 1) market value last year, and 2) market value this year.

Correct me if I am wrong, but market value last year should be 2005, while market value this year should be 2006. Prop taxes are paid in arrears and IMO, Market value of property should be based on sales during the current year, not last year, if you want to get it correct and current. The down side to that story is that people will cry and moan if that is how the Prop Appraiser worked in a booming market like the one we recently had.


State (or county?) law requires them to calculate the values as of Jan. 1, 2006. And last year there was a 4-6 month period of ridiculous prices, and then almost nothing sold at all. Prices have only started to come down in the past 6 months or so. I'm not saying the property appraisers are justified, but I sure hope they are prepared to come down on their appraisals next year, since it seems like we are headed in that direction. Perhaps they were betting that the market would stabilize, and not head further down? Either way, they should err on the side of the property owners, since clearly this is a market in flux and they have plenty of cash rolling in. Pushing the limits on the values just seems unfair.

[Smiling JOe]

State (or county?) law requires them to calculate the values as of Jan. 1, 2006. And last year there was a 4-6 month period of ridiculous prices, and then almost nothing sold at all. Prices have only started to come down in the past 6 months or so. I'm not saying the property appraisers are justified, but I sure hope they are prepared to come down on their appraisals next year, since it seems like we are headed in that direction. Perhaps they were betting that the market would stabilize, and not head further down? Either way, they should err on the side of the property owners, since clearly this is a market in flux and they have plenty of cash rolling in. Pushing the limits on the values just seems unfair.

Well if they are calculating the value as of Jan 1, 2006, they could have saved answering and returning about 2000 phone calls from the public, calling to question their taxes. :bang: A simple notation stating that would suffice.

I see the problem for next year being that there wont be enough sales in 2006 to get a real handle on market value. One other huge problem will be, that if the market values are dropped dramitcally, the millage will have to increase, and the County Commissioners are going to catch hell about truly "raising" taxes.

[jhelms]

Update from Bay County... (I rec'd this email from my Realtor)


From: Mary Sittman [mailto:bayco@knology.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:05 AM
To: Mary Sittman
Subject: County Commission On a motion from George Gainer, seconded by Jerry Girvin, the County Commission unanimously voted to reduce their millage by 1.5 and to reduce the millage on the special taxing district (Fire Services) by .25, for a total reduction of 1.75!

All of the calls and letters from everyone and from the business organizations were most effective. We need to send a special thanks to the Board of Directors of the Chamber of Commerce and the Board of Realtors for their resolutions.

The fight is certainly not over. As the other taxing authorities schedule meetings, we should plan to make our presence known. We have already heard an indication that the School Board may consider a reduction in their discretionary millage fund. This is the fund that is set aside by law for capital improvements. Since the School Board also has a half cent sales tax for capital improvements, there may be room to reduce their millage without affecting the qualify of our educational system.

Mary K. Sittman
President
Bayco Development Company
P. O. Box 1669
Panama City, FL 32401
(850) 785-7759
(850) 785-2188 fax
(850) 814-9839 cell

[waltondude]

You may doubt that homes are missed, but I know of homes which are missed.


And the good citizen that you are will let the authorities know of these homes so that the owners will quit stealing from the rest of us?

[Smiling JOe]

And the good citizen that you are will let the authorities know of these homes so that the owners will quit stealing from the rest of us?Elect me as Property Appraiser and I will get right on that. Right now, I am too busy reading the Cliff Notes to Shelly's book, "Knowing It All -- For Dummies."

[SHELLY]

Elect me as Property Appraiser and I will get right on that. Right now, I am too busy reading the Cliff Notes to Shelly's book, "Knowing It All -- For Dummies."

I'll be happy to autograph that for you! :D

[TooFarTampa]

Elect me as Property Appraiser and I will get right on that. Right now, I am too busy reading the Cliff Notes to Shelly's book, "Knowing It All -- For Dummies."

:floor: :floor: :floor:

[Here4Good]

The last person you will ever hear requesting more taxes is me, but let me clarify a minor point. In the technical sense, WalCo did not "raise taxes." Rather, taxes were lowered. It is the assessed values which were increased due to the sales in 2005, which accounted for one of the largest price increases in property value ever. The milage rate (taxable rate) for Walton County has decreased for the last two years, and they are predicting a decrease this year. I have lived in a few towns, both large and small. Never before, have I lived in a town where the milage rate was as low as it is here. Currently, it is just under 1%. Most towns in which I have lived, have a milage rate of at least double that, if not close to triple that. Assessed values were ridiculously low in WalCo, up until last year when the assessed values of the majority of properties in WalCo finally came more in line with the reality of market value. I recall once owning a piece of land which I could have easily sold for $145K, and the assessed value was $15K. That is just one of many examples of the numerous properties which I have seen given a huge break, when looking at the Prop Appraiser's page. I think the growth of WalCo was too fast for the County to keep pace with, thus they were behind. Now, they have caught up, and the market has fallen back a bit, causing many property owners' assessed values to look out of whack to their own detriment. I bet you never heard these people complain when the difference was in their own favor. ;-) This is the first year, that we will see some unjust variances, weighing against us property owners, between the assessed value and actual market values.

I hope I have cleared that up a little bit for those of you not in the know. ;-) Please note that my statement above does not mean that I think WalCo gov't spends money correctly on services and parks for its taxpayers.

I've posted this in the general area, but will reinterate here - if the county collects more money, it is a tax increase, as defined by the TRIM legislation.

TRIM was put in place to protect the non-homesteaded owners - it says to the county that if you collected $100MM at a millage rate of 5.0 on $X of appraised value last year, and this year you find yourself with $X times 1.5 of appraised value this year, you MUST roll back the millage rate to collect the same $100MM, and THEN justify the increases to the taxpayers.

Instead, Walton County BCC is simply making up new categories to soak up the extra appraised value.

Please, please, please go to the county website and look at the budget proposal and go to MyFlorida.com and read about TRIM laws.

Walton County BCC is asking for an overall 37.24% increase in spending!!!! The annual budget, without Capital Projects, goes from about $102MM to almost $140MM. The "other" category, where they stick the pork, goes from $5.2MM to $14.5MM.

It might also interest you to know that as of the last report, in March, we had almost $90MM in the bank - in reserve. Now, that's nice, but it's a lot of money!

You, as a property owner, are ENTITLED to the full rollback, and then must make them JUSTIFY the increase. Please visit the Walton County Taxpayers website and call/email/visit your commissioner.

[SHELLY]

The county NEEDS that money! I heard that the county isn't content with being on the record with the most GCT in the panhandle...they now want to go one step further and install Granite Top Sidewalks (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003236918_granite31.html?syndication=rss)

[sberry123]

my property taxes are 30% more this year than last year. Homeowner insurance on a double wide trailer that cost $30,000 altogether was $120 a month for me, my insurance carrier notified me that it will be triple this year. $360 a month to insure a trailer in defuniak?????!!!!!!
does anyone know of a better insurance company?


So, in a little less than 7 years you will pay your insurance company $30,000. I would try to self insure if possible on this one! $360 x 12months x 6.944 years = about $30K :blush: