Melting Ice Caps -

[Beachlover2]

North Pole Meets South Pole: Earth Is Melting at Both Ends
Melting Ice Caps Could Spell Disaster for Coastal Cities
By BILL BLAKEMORE

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(March 2) - For the first time, scientists have confirmed Earth is melting at both ends, which could have disastrous effects for coastal cities and villages.


Antarctica has been called "a slumbering giant" by a climate scientist who predicts that if all the ice melted, sea levels would rise by 200 feet. Other scientists believe that such a thing won't happen, but new studies show that the slumbering giant has started to stir.


Melting at Both Ends


Recent studies have confirmed that the North Pole and the South Pole have started melting.


Experts have long predicted that global warming would start to melt Greenland's two-mile-thick ice sheet, but they also thought the more massive ice sheet covering Antarctica would increase in the 21st century.


It seems they were wrong.


Two new studies find that despite the increasing snowfall that comes with global warming as a result of the increased moisture in the air, Antarctica's ice sheets are losing far more than the snow is adding.


According to the National Academy of Sciences, Earth's surface temperature has risen by about 1 degree Fahrenheit in the last century, with accelerated warming during the last two decades. Most of the warming over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities through the buildup of greenhouse gases — primarily carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide. Although the heat-trapping property of these gases is undisputed, uncertainties exist about exactly how Earth's climate responds to them.

Photo Gallery

The melting rate of Greenland glaciers has doubled since 1996. See images of global warming effects.

View Photo Gallery
"The warming ocean comes underneath the ice shelves and melts them from the bottom, and warmer air from the top melts them from the top," said NASA glaciologist Jay Zwally. "So they're thinning and eventually they get to a point where they go poof!"


Zwally explains that the ice shelves, which the Antarctic ice cap pushes out into the ocean, are responding more than they expected to Earth's warming air and water. If the melting speeds up to a rapid runaway process called a "collapse," coastal cities and villages could be in danger.


James Hansen, director of NASA's Earth Science Research, said that disaster could probably be avoided, but that it would require dramatically cutting emission outputs. If the proper actions aren't taken, Hansen said, the sea level could rise as much as 80 feet by the time today's children reach middle age.


"We now must choose between a serious problem that we can probably handle and, if we don't act soon, unmitigated disaster down the road," Hansen said.



"Based on the history of the Earth, if we can keep the warming less than 2 degrees Fahrenheit, I think we can avoid disastrous ice sheet collapse," Hansen said.


Hansen and other scientists point out that a rise of at least 1 degree Fahrenheit — and another few feet of sea level — seem virtually certain to happen because of the carbon that mankind has already put in the atmosphere.

[Smiling JOe]

So are you saying that I may need to use my canoe to get to my house?

[Beachlover2]

If they rise 200' I think you wouldn't have to worry about a canoe :rolling:

[aquaticbiology]

since things are heating up on all the planets, we may be in for more than a canoe ride - time to break out the gps or altimeter - may be time to head for Britton Hill, Lakewood Park in Walton County

The highest point in Florida is 345 feet, located in Walton county at Section 30, Township 6 North, Range 20 West.

-http://www.ocls.lib.fl.us/Virtual/FastFacts/fastFactDetails.asp?FastFactsID=36&bhcp=1

-http://www.netstate.com/states/geography/fl_geography.htm

we're at 900+ up here in the red hills of 'zippy

[30A Skunkape]

Mt Driskill is our high point here in the Pelican State-a little over 500 feet. At least Louisiana is ranked ahead of Florida in one category! :floor:

[goofer44]

If ever there was a reason to perfect desalinization i think this, and the droughts in the southwest, would be it. I am confident science and technology will figure it out. The sky is not falling yet!!

[Smiling JOe]

So we shouldn't rebuild New Orleans? :idontno:

[aquaticbiology]

So we shouldn't rebuild New Orleans? :idontno:

oh, man, the line from whatever it was old Safari movie comes to mind "of course we should and kill all the animals while we're doing it because it means votes and votes means money!", but no, sorry, i'm just not in the mood - more worries about march being 'quite nasty' seem to be coming from every quarter but without good reason why - just its going to be 'real bad' about the 20th they all say but nobody says why, or they give opposite reasons - maybe they're just selling their book with gloom and doom, and its probably bs, but do I book the trip to pago-pago for the 19th just in case?

[John R]

i was tallking about the situation in NOLA last night with someone who has been intimitely involved with the rebuild and things are not looking bright. FEMA has no idea about what to do. they are sitting waiting for the next shoe to drop. they know that the levees will not stand another cat 5 storm, and as we all know, the 'new' levees are built to cat 3. the feelings are that NOLA is done. the coffers will not support another storm rebuild. biloxi and the rest actually got the 'better' end of the deal. they were wiped clean and now the rebuld is on. the rebuild is not on in NOLA because everyone in govt. knows the aweful truth, but no one will utter it aloud.

jr

[Bob]

So we shouldn't rebuild New Orleans? :idontno:
Yes, and we should rehire "Brownie" so that we have a punching bag for the next Gulf typhoon.

[30A Skunkape]

New Orleans will be rebuilt in one form or another. Most of what folks love about my fair city needs no rebuilding; Garden District, Uptown, Vieux Carre-these spots are 90% intact (in case our friends in the media led you to believe otherwise). It is a given that things will be very different here. Ironically, I think that the city will face a similar pain that SoWal currently does. Specifically, the cheap housing where service industry workers could afford to live has been wiped-out. If this property is 'bought' by the federal government as is proposed now, it will remain forever as 'green space' (Stafford Act). In other words, NOLA will become a nice little boutique city that has a heck of a busy port. If we didn't have the port and refining, we could easily be written-off;luckily, we are addicted to gasoline and coffee, so NOLA will be back. By the way, best Mardi Gras of my life this week. :razz:

[Smiling JOe]

If the sea level rises 200' as indicated, from the melting ice caps, you may need to borrow some scuba gear to get to your house in the Garden District, eh?

[30A Skunkape]

Yeah;of course that means all the folks who bought ground level stuff in SoWal will be fellow waterworlders and those who bought stuff in the high rise monsters we all love to hate will be high and dry. Ouch. :roll:

[Smiling JOe]

Yeah;of course that means all the folks who bought ground level stuff in SoWal will be fellow waterworlders and those who bought stuff in the high rise monsters we all love to hate will be high and dry. Ouch. :roll:I think most of the 4 story condos in SoWal would still be about a 75' dive from the surface to reach the top of the condo.

[John R]

I think most of the 4 story condos in SoWal would still be about a 75' dive from the surface to reach the top of the condo.

aren't you supposed to be on 30a right about now?

[ecopal]

"Bob: Yes, and we should rehire "Brownie" so that we have a punching bag for the next Gulf typhoon."

I don't think you need Brownie around to blame anymore. The recent released video shows Bush being warned by Brownie and the National Hurricane center of the severity of Katrina (before Katrina hit) and that it could overwhelm the levees . Bush's subsequent lack of follow through means Bush is who you should be blaming at the national level.

Also don't forget that for years Bush has been suppressing weather scientist's dire predictions about how global warming. And Bush chose to do nothing about that either.

[John R]

"Bob: Yes, and we should rehire "Brownie" so that we have a punching bag for the next Gulf typhoon."

I don't think you need Brownie around to blame anymore. The recent released video shows Bush being warned by Brownie and the National Hurricane center of the severity of Katrina (before Katrina hit) and that it could overwhelm the levees . Bush's subsequent lack of follow through means Bush is who you should be blaming at the national level.

Also don't forget that for years Bush has been suppressing weather scientist's dire predictions about how global warming. And Bush chose to do nothing about that either.

copy that.

from yesterdays WP.

Caught on Tape

Saturday, March 4, 2006; Page A16

ON THE DAY before Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, federal emergency officials warned President Bush that the hurricane could be "the big one," the storm the region had long feared; that the Superdome, the shelter of last resort in New Orleans, was below sea level and might well lose its roof; that medical and mortuary teams might not be prepared; and that the levees might not hold back the floodwaters. Mr. Bush, speaking during a videoconference, a tape of which was obtained by the Associated Press, responded by reassuring state officials that "we are fully prepared."

Without a doubt, the tape provides evidence that the White House received ample warning of the catastrophe. Yet within days of that
videoconference, Mr. Bush would excuse the federal government's extraordinarily poor performance by telling an interviewer that "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." Moreover, at the time of the conference the White House had no idea whether federal emergency services were truly prepared. On the tape, the president doesn't ask any questions about preparedness, and there is no evidence in documents since released that he was any more engaged before or after the conference. Had anyone called the Defense Department? Was the National Guard en route? Were local Army bases prepared to help? Were emergency food and water supplies in place? The president, like everyone around him, appears to have assumed that everything would run like clockwork, just as it was supposed to on paper.

Before Louisiana state and city officials get too excited about this video, it's worth noting that similar criticisms could be lodged against them. Another tape recently released to the AP reveals that Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D) reassured the president that the levees had held -- three hours after they had broken. New Orleans officials also understood in advance of Katrina the scale of the potential catastrophe -- they had carried out simulations of a levee breach -- but were unable to cope. Even some specific consequences of the hurricane, such as the failure of low-income people to leave the city, had been predicted. Yet little was done to accommodate them, either.

The tape adds to a growing body of evidence that the disaster was a failure of execution, not prediction. That indicates to us that federal and local government employees must spend more time carrying out practice exercises and involve more people in disaster planning. It also should tell the nation something about the value of leadership. The Gulf Coast might have suffered less had the president just asked a few people the right questions.

[ecopal]

Great article regarding Bush coverup of global warming causes and effects from the NEW SCIENTIST magazine
.
US agencies accused of muzzling climate experts
25 February 2006
NewScientist.com news service

NASA is feeling the heat from US lawmakers over allegations that it has been preventing scientists from presenting evidence for global warming. The issue was raised by the House Committee on Science in a debate on NASA's latest budget on 16 February.

Three weeks ago, climatologist James Hansen accused NASA's public affairs officer, George Deutsch, of muzzling climate scientists who did not conform to the Bush administration's view. A week later Deutsch, a political appointee, resigned when it was revealed he had fudged his résumé. NASA's chief Michael Griffin has pledged to correct such mistakes.

Things may be worse at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the agency most directly involved in climate research. The top officials at NOAA are "unapologetic about egregious censorship", says Jerry Mahlmann, a former NOAA scientist and director of one of its labs.

According to Mahlmann, NOAA suppressed reports about record high temperatures last year, as well as objections from its scientists to the agency's claim that there was no link between global warming and last year's unprecedented hurricane season. Scientists who still work for the agency won't speak out publicly. "There's concern about retaliation," says Rick Piltz, who resigned in protest last year from NOAA's Climate Change office.

[TooFarTampa]

You have got to be effing kidding me. That is scarier than anything that happened with Katrina.

Bush professes to be a devout Christian. Should he not be working to protect God's creation? Other members of the Christian right are at least giving this issue lip service. I have been reading more and more talk from scientists lately, and I have been getting very upset that none of our leaders has the balls to put together a rational plan.

By the time this becomes a movement, it will be too late. I don't normally applaud the Hollywood types for the way they make statements, but a bunch of them will be arriving in hybrid cars at tonight's Oscars and I think that's great. At least they're trying to do something. :clap_1:

This is not just about gas prices. It is about global warming on one hand. On the other hand you have talk about "peak oil" and the way our economy will contract as soon as our supplies begin to decrease. Not good for Republicans. Not good for Democrats. Not good for anyone.

[Smiling JOe]

aren't you supposed to be on 30a right about now?The times on Kurt's board are one hour fast. I left the house just before 7am.

[John R]

The times on Kurt's board are one hour fast. I left the house just before 7am.


silly rabbit. you're kidding right? you can change the times in the user cp.

jr

[Santiago]

You have got to be effing kidding me. That is scarier than anything that happened with Katrina.

Bush professes to be a devout Christian. Should he not be working to protect God's creation? Other members of the Christian right are at least giving this issue lip service. I have been reading more and more talk from scientists lately, and I have been getting very upset that none of our leaders has the balls to put together a rational plan.

By the time this becomes a movement, it will be too late. I don't normally applaud the Hollywood types for the way they make statements, but a bunch of them will be arriving in hybrid cars at tonight's Oscars and I think that's great. At least they're trying to do something. :clap_1:

This is not just about gas prices. It is about global warming on one hand. On the other hand you have talk about "peak oil" and the way our economy will contract as soon as our supplies begin to decrease. Not good for Republicans. Not good for Democrats. Not good for anyone.
And they will be leaving on private jets.

[Smiling JOe]

silly rabbit. you're kidding right? you can change the times in the user cp.

jrI have mine set for central time, yet it shows up as eastern time.:idontno:

[beachkids]

And they will be leaving on private jets.
:clap_1:
And destroying the ozone
And causing the earth to warm
And causing the oceans to rise

Sell your 30A property now while you still can!

[30A Skunkape]

I still think we will be bobbing around in a rip current hanging on to a weathervane at Rosemary Beach looking upon high-risers on the 75th floor in Panama City as the Gods that they will be :floor: .

[Smiling JOe]

I still think we will be bobbing around in a rip current hanging on to a weathervane at Rosemary Beach looking upon high-risers on the 75th floor in Panama City as the Gods that they will be :floor: .If we are bobbing around, how are the people on the 75th floors going to be gods? -- Unless the elevators work and they all enjoy scuba diving and don't mind fighting the fish for wet groceries. :rolling:

If we get 200' rise in sea level, I am driving my little booty to the mountains, but not before I take some photos. :D -- now if I only had a camera that worked properly.