New home building costs

[welk]

Can anyone tell me what the avg heated/cooled building costs are in Grayton ,Thanks

[Camp Creek Kid]

Can anyone tell me what the avg heated/cooled building costs are in Grayton ,Thanks

Building costs vary depending on type of construction (wood frame, concrete), finishes, etc. It might be helpful to be more specific. Costs can be from the mid 100's/square foot up to 300/square foot.

[welk]

Im thinking of frame/wood,9-10 ceilings,all wood floors throughout/tile 3 baths

[Camp Creek Kid]

Im thinking of frame/wood,9-10 ceilings,all wood floors throughout/tile 3 baths

A wood frame home with hardiplank siding and standard finishes (basic trim, solid-surface countertops, stock cabinets, etc.) should not cost more than $200/sq. foot and can probably be built for a bit lower. A 3-story home requires wind rated windows/doors on all levels or storm shutters, which are both very expensive. Go for the windows--much less headache and not much more expensive than shutters.

[kurt]

More info on this thread (http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=3348)

[pk305]

[QUOTE=Camp Creek Kid]....... Go for the windows--much less headache and not much more expensive than shutters.[/QUOT

So if you have these WIND RATED windows and doors does that give you the same protection as shutters? Would you need to board up these WIND RATED windows in case of an "event" ??
THANKS!!

[kurt]

[QUOTE=Camp Creek Kid]....... Go for the windows--much less headache and not much more expensive than shutters.[/QUOT

So if you have these WIND RATED windows and doors does that give you the same protection as shutters? Would you need to board up these WIND RATED windows in case of an "event" ??
THANKS!!

Theoretically, no - you wouldn't need shutters if windows with laminated glass are installed correctly. Shutters do help prevent water infiltration, although the manufacturers will tell you that their windows don't leak.

[pgurney]

I think the shutters are also better for withstanding flying debris. IIRC, the wind-rated windows can break if hit by debris, but not shatter due to the laminations.

[Uncle Timmy]

So if you have these WIND RATED windows and doors does that give you the same protection as shutters? Would you need to board up these WIND RATED windows in case of an "event" ??
THANKS!!

Actually there are two seperate issues with windows in FL:

All windows in Florida must be wind rated (the actual pressure rating is determined by location). However, only those homes within the wind-borne debris area must be protected from flying debris.

The wind-borne debris area is roughly one mile from the coast, but Walton County has maps which indicate where this zone is exactly.

Window/Doors are protected by either an impact rated shutters or they are constructed of impact glazing.

Please note that installed, impact rated shutters are also quite expensive, they are not just your ordinary louvered shutters you would get at Home Depot.

The cheapest option when building in the wind-borne debris region, is to use non-impact rated windows/doors, and protect these with metal or plywood panels -these must be on site at the time of your final building inspection and a track or other hanging system must be evident. Obviously this option is not as convenient as the impact glass or pre-hung rated shutters as it can take a while to get all the panels up when a storm is approaching.

[rancov]

Code changed as to windows and shutters in 2007. You can no longer meet the requirement with sutters or plywood that are stroed. It is now much easier to install Impact Rated windows. You will also save a ton of money every year once you have the home inspected and verify to the insurance company that the windows are impact rated. Also, if you are out of the area and get on 18 hours notice, it is not likely you will be able to get the shutters istalled in time.

In new code you would have to have installe dshutters that can be closed quickly and not stored. These types are expensive (and not very attractive). If you have impact rated windows, they have been tested and certified by breaking the glass and then subjecting them to 9,000 cycle of positive and negative wind speeds of 140 mph for the Destin area.

See this for more info. http://www.biltbest-windows-and-patio-doors.com/index.php/biltbest-storm-guard

[Smiling JOe]

Thanks for the update rancov. Doesn't the new change affect all new construction in SoWal, where it used to include just the homes close to the Gulf?

[sowalgayboi]

If impact rated windows are so great why did WaterColor (St. Joe) board up all of there homes during that last two hurricanes?

[Smiling JOe]

two reasons,

1) plywood is cheaper than replacing windows. Impact resistant doesn't mean they won't break.

2) not all windows in WaterColor are impact resistant. At one time, impact resistant glass was not required if the home was designed to handle the pressure. Those laws have since changed.

[Rambunkscious]

The use of impact windows and doors vs double pane windows and doors negates the current market adjusted savings on construction costs.

In simpler terms, the money you would save due to a slower market and more abundant subs is lost when you buy these newly required windows.

This is another nail in the coffin for this market.

[Rambunkscious]

Rancov, agreed there are some insurance companies out there that will give you a very, very small discount for your homeowner insurance. I analyzed one situation and the break-even point for the new impact windows vs the old double pane windows was 27 years, in consideration of this insurance discount.

This is not a good investment and I wouldnt exactly say it will "save you a ton of money".

I also do not agree that the new shutters are unattractive, this can be overcome but not always depending on the design of the home. More traditional homes work better, Palm Beach wont work due to the larger windows.

In fact, this new code requirement will just basically add a lot of costs to your windows and home, at a time when we already have insurmountable problems in this state regarding home construction and real estate.

As a builder, I do not see the practicality of someone building a new house at a special time in our history when there are thousands of distressed situations in the market that a builder cannot even think about competing with in cost. However sometimes cost is not a factor, I think in about
.0000000001 percent of the time cost is not a factor.

[scooterbug44]

You CAN get attractive hurricane shutters (not the rolling kind, but traditional looking shutters) and impact rated windows and doors also have increased security (no smash and grabs w/ laminated glass units) and insulation benefits.

They are $$ because they are new products and are more expensive to produce, but folks who are paying $100k to trick out their kitchen w/ stainless professional appliances won't be deciding not to build because of window/doors prices IMO.

[JoshMclean]

Prices on the high impact windows have already come down dramatically over the past couple of years. They should continue to do so as the market grows.

[Uncle Timmy]

Code changed as to windows and shutters in 2007. You can no longer meet the requirement with sutters or plywood that are stroed. It is now much easier to install Impact Rated windows. You will also save a ton of money every year once you have the home inspected and verify to the insurance company that the windows are impact rated. Also, if you are out of the area and get on 18 hours notice, it is not likely you will be able to get the shutters istalled in time.

In new code you would have to have installe dshutters that can be closed quickly and not stored. These types are expensive (and not very attractive). If you have impact rated windows, they have been tested and certified by breaking the glass and then subjecting them to 9,000 cycle of positive and negative wind speeds of 140 mph for the Destin area.

See this for more info. http://www.biltbest-windows-and-patio-doors.com/index.php/biltbest-storm-guard

Rancov,

I think you’re ½ correct.

Ordinance 2007-53 went into effect Dec11, 2007 modifying the location of Walton Counties Wind Borne Debris Region (see map ftp://gisftp.co.walton.fl.us/County_Website/Building%20Dept/Wind_Debris_wc_rv4.pdf (ftp://gisftp.co.walton.fl.us/County_Website/Building%20Dept/Wind_Debris_wc_rv4.pdf))

…….putting all of SoWal smack in the 140 mph wind zone. This bumps us out of the following part of the Florida Building Code:


"Section 1609.1.4 Protection of Openings.

1. Wood structural panels with a minimum thickness of 7/16 inch and a maximum span of 8 feet shall be permitted for opening protection in one and two story buildings. Panels shall be precut to cover the glazed openings with attachment hardware provided."…..where wind speeds do not exceed 130 mph.

So you can’t use plywood to provide your wind borne debris protection, but Florida Building Code –Residential Section R4410.4 allows the use of detached, approved shutters.

For budget conscious homeowners; approved (usually metal) panels that can be stored on site and put up when a storm threatens is a cheaper option than impact glazing.

[Bdarg]

Rancov, agreed there are some insurance companies out there that will give you a very, very small discount for your homeowner insurance. I analyzed one situation and the break-even point for the new impact windows vs the old double pane windows was 27 years, in consideration of this insurance discount.

This is not a good investment and I wouldnt exactly say it will "save you a ton of money".

I also do not agree that the new shutters are unattractive, this can be overcome but not always depending on the design of the home. More traditional homes work better, Palm Beach wont work due to the larger windows.

In fact, this new code requirement will just basically add a lot of costs to your windows and home, at a time when we already have insurmountable problems in this state regarding home construction and real estate.

As a builder, I do not see the practicality of someone building a new house at a special time in our history when there are thousands of distressed situations in the market that a builder cannot even think about competing with in cost. However sometimes cost is not a factor, I think in about
.0000000001 percent of the time cost is not a factor.

I disagree with your analysis. Your analysis assumes that no storm is involved in your 27 year return. With that assumption hurricane straps and clips would not be cost effective. If calm clear weather were the only consideration for the next 27 year then most of the hurricane hardened construction would not be cost effective. Put a 2% or 5% deductible into the financial equation and the windows would more than pay for themselves. Also, there could easily be a future insurability question down the road and thus a future saleability question. I know pre-2003 code vs. post-2003 code made a huge difference in whether I could get insurance or not and whether I bought or not.

Please also remember that building codes are only minimum design requirements and are not necessarily "best practice". There is no law that prevents building better than code.

In short deleting the better windows in lieu of getting the granite counter top may not be the best long term building decision from the home owner's perspective.

[Rambunkscious]

99 out of a 100 would rather have the granite countertops than the storm windows.

Your point about a 5% deductible is a good one. When you consider a home on 30-A insured value of a million the first fifty thousand dollars in damage is yours, the insurance game becomes more absurd.

I think hurricane straps and metal tie-downs are a little different than storm windows. These pieces of metal only cost a couple thousand dollars for a whole house. These tie downs are just as valuable as the storm windows and doors but yet cost one twentieth as much as the windows and doors, not a reasonable comparison.

A wise man said one time that people will pay anything to save money and that seems to be true. Also your analysis assumes you will have storm damage, my assumption assumes you will not, so one analysis is optimistic and one is pessimistic!!!

[Smiling JOe]

Also not included are everyone's insurance rates if SoWal gets whacked by a some major storms during that 27 year period. If storms blow out the windows, causing major interior damage to many of the homes around here, we all can expect increased rates and more difficult to obtain insurance.

[Bdarg]

In California, Tennessee, Alaska and many other states we require that a structure be designed for earthquake loads. Is that pessimistic? Last time Tennessee had a major quake was almost 200 years ago, however we have written the codes with the understanding that loss of life would be extremely high the New Madrid goes off, unless we design with the anticipation of a major quake. It is estimated that the last New Madrid quake topped 8.0. At that level the soil liquefies, farm fields look like the gulf on a rough day and tall buildings look like wet spaghetti.

With such things in mind we design for anticipated problems happening rather than hoping that they do not. Building codes attempt to balance the odds of something happening with the cost to implement a protective measure. The goal is protecting the lives of the occupants. If we designed for sunny warm days then a nice tent would serve most everyone well. The reality is that it gets cold so we need insulation, it gets windy so we need a certain strengths to resist the winds. Much of Florida has design winds of 130 to 150 mph. For the average house that works out to roughly 27 to 55 lbs per square foot for the entire side of the house, windows included. With that in mind remember that your living room floor is only rated at 40 lbs per square foot. One important purpose of the impact rated window is to maintain the integrity of the structural envelope. Once the windows go field research of hurricane damaged structures shows that the house will likely loose its roof, exposing the contents to wind and rain.

We also need to include in the cost analysis the cost of putting all those nails in the hurricane ties. The bill for the metal may be a couple of thousand, but the cost to put 8 to 32 nails per strap is much much higher. Many manufactures and engineers require that all the nail holes in the ties be filled with a nail in order to get any strength from the tie. Major labor cost.

My point is that in order for a structure to resist hurricane forces the house must work as a complete structural system. All of the components have to work together. The house is only as strong as its weakest component. Nature loves to exploit weaknesses.

BTW nature does not recognize building codes. There is no law of nature that says that the winds cannot top 140 mph along the emerald coast or that the gusts must be limited to 3 seconds. That was just what the code committee agreed on base on the best information that they had available. It was not that long ago that the code committee thought that the trees would protect the houses in this area and thus the design wind forces could be reduced.

[sowalgayboi]

99 out of a 100 would rather have the granite countertops than the storm windows.

Your point about a 5% deductible is a good one. When you consider a home on 30-A insured value of a million the first fifty thousand dollars in damage is yours, the insurance game becomes more absurd.

I think hurricane straps and metal tie-downs are a little different than storm windows. These pieces of metal only cost a couple thousand dollars for a whole house. These tie downs are just as valuable as the storm windows and doors but yet cost one twentieth as much as the windows and doors, not a reasonable comparison.

A wise man said one time that people will pay anything to save money and that seems to be true. Also your analysis assumes you will have storm damage, my assumption assumes you will not, so one analysis is optimistic and one is pessimistic!!!

So if a potential home owner were to ask you if they should install them, what would you tell them?

[elgordoboy]

In California, Tennessee, Alaska and many other states we require that a structure be designed for earthquake loads. Is that pessimistic? Last time Tennessee had a major quake was almost 200 years ago, however we have written the codes with the understanding that loss of life would be extremely high the New Madrid goes off, unless we design with the anticipation of a major quake. It is estimated that the last New Madrid quake topped 8.0. At that level the soil liquefies, farm fields look like the gulf on a rough day and tall buildings look like wet spaghetti.

With such things in mind we design for anticipated problems happening rather than hoping that they do not. Building codes attempt to balance the odds of something happening with the cost to implement a protective measure. The goal is protecting the lives of the occupants. If we designed for sunny warm days then a nice tent would serve most everyone well. The reality is that it gets cold so we need insulation, it gets windy so we need a certain strengths to resist the winds. Much of Florida has design winds of 130 to 150 mph. For the average house that works out to roughly 27 to 55 lbs per square foot for the entire side of the house, windows included. With that in mind remember that your living room floor is only rated at 40 lbs per square foot. One important purpose of the impact rated window is to maintain the integrity of the structural envelope. Once the windows go field research of hurricane damaged structures shows that the house will likely loose its roof, exposing the contents to wind and rain.

We also need to include in the cost analysis the cost of putting all those nails in the hurricane ties. The bill for the metal may be a couple of thousand, but the cost to put 8 to 32 nails per strap is much much higher. Many manufactures and engineers require that all the nail holes in the ties be filled with a nail in order to get any strength from the tie. Major labor cost.

My point is that in order for a structure to resist hurricane forces the house must work as a complete structural system. All of the components have to work together. The house is only as strong as its weakest component. Nature loves to exploit weaknesses.

BTW nature does not recognize building codes. There is no law of nature that says that the winds cannot top 140 mph along the emerald coast or that the gusts must be limited to 3 seconds. That was just what the code committee agreed on base on the best information that they had available. It was not that long ago that the code committee thought that the trees would protect the houses in this area and thus the design wind forces could be reduced.
If I stand up on one leg I am placing 215lbs on approximately 1/3 of a foot square. What am I missing ..do you mean inches? And if I jump up and land on just my heel that lbs/ft goes up exponentially. Do I need to start slithering around on my belly causing greater displacement of weight?

[sowalgayboi]

If I stand up on one leg I am placing 215lbs on approximately 1/3 of a foot square. What am I missing ..do you mean inches? And if I jump up and land on just my heel that lbs/ft goes up exponentially. Do I need to start slithering around on my belly causing greater displacement of weight?

Careful don't poke an engineer.

[elgordoboy]

Careful don't poke an engineer.
I am truly asking for clarification I don't understand how I am able to walk across my floor without falling through.

[sowalgayboi]

I am truly asking for clarification I don't understand how I am able to walk across my floor without falling through.

Oh okay, I understand it that the 40lbs/sq ft is distributed over the entire area of the room. In other words if you have a 10x10 room rated at 40lbs/sq ft you can have an over all capacity in the room of 4000lbs. Of course you probably wouldn't want to stack that on a needle. ;-)

[elgordoboy]

Oh okay, I understand it that the 40lbs/sq ft is distributed over the entire area of the room. In other words if you have a 10x10 room rated at 40lbs/sq ft you can have an over all capacity in the room of 4000lbs. Of course you probably wouldn't want to stack that on a needle. ;-)
Makes better sense to me...meaning if I put that 4000lbs out on my deck(if it were like my floor) I might would fall off with the other 3,785lbs. Tyvm :D

[sowalgayboi]

Makes better sense to me...meaning if I put that 4000lbs out on my deck(if it were like my floor) I might would fall off with the other 3,785lbs. Tyvm :D

Regardless I am no engineer so if you use that equation I am not responsible for any resulting injury, property loss, or loss of life.

[Rambunkscious]

All these ideas about building sturdy storm proof homes are great, including the storm windows, which are now not an option but required in most coastal areas. So any discussion regarding "is it worth it and is it a good investment" is a moot point because they are required now and they were not required a year ago. My analysis just points out that if you did not have to buy these windows, because now that you DO have to buy them, it will take 27 years to get your money back. I know there are some variables such as the possibility of not getting homeowners insurance without these windows, etc. in the future. And if a hurricane scores a direct hit on your home it would be stouter with the storm windows, of course this may not ever happen but could.

This discussion was started on home building costs. I am just pointing out that yes we are getting some breaks on home construction costs now because of the slow times when workers are more abundant.

The storm window upgrade change to the building code however, cancels out this savings. And yes, they cost less than they used to but they still cost at least twice and more like three times what normal windows cost.

This code change comes at an especially weak time in the real estate market when we are also facing depreciating real estate values, appreciating real estate taxes (which are based on prior years not present years), appreciating homeowner insurance costs, declining housing demand, housing oversupply, the difficulty (and practicality) of obtaining home loans over $417k,the second highest foreclosure rate in the United States, point being this is another nail in the coffin to the greatly anticipated housing recovery. Most people realize that currently you can rent a house for about one half of what it will cost you to own the house.

Some people buy feraris because they like them and can afford them, if they cost more they would still buy them. Most people though drive a chevy or a toyota.

[sowalgayboi]

Thank you, that does clarify your statement very clearly. My understanding was that other building supplies had come down in cost or this untrue as well?

[John R]

http://www.wayne-dalton.com/Fabric-Shield.asp

watch the video

[sowalgayboi]

http://www.wayne-dalton.com/Fabric-Shield.asp

watch the video

I've seen these before, very impressive, but at the time I remember the price being right on par with impact windows. :idontno:

[John R]

I've seen these before, very impressive, but at the time I remember the price being right on par with impact windows. :idontno:

these cost far less than the cost of impact resistant windows. for an additional $2300, I would have been unable to upgrade.

[Rambunkscious]

The fabric shield is the best alternative to impact windows I have seen.
Reasonable cost but still have to be installed like plywood just not as heavy and cumbersome. If you have windows upstairs its hard to install.

[John R]

To get any discount from insurance(state farm, at least) the window protection needs to be professionally installed by the reseller, then inspected and signed off by the building dept. there is an affadavit that the ins company will supply.

rambunkcious, i'd rather be hauling the fabric shield up the ladder than a sheet of plywood, or the lucite or aluminum panels that need to be fitted together...

[beachmouse]

Added expense or not, if you look at how structures built under different codes fared in Punta Gorda during Hurricane Charley, it's impressive how well homes built under newer codes do hold up compared to older homes.

Based on that, I'm all for the long-term benefits of a tighter codes, even if it causes some sort term discomfort in the real estate market.

[Smiling JOe]

All homes built in compliance with the latest codes, will be required to have the impact glass, so the storm shutters or Wayne Dalton products (great idea), would just be over and above.

I'm not sure of the cost difference on the avg home built with impact glass, than those without, but I bet if you wrapped it into the 30yr note, the benefits outweigh the costs.

[Snapper Grabber]

A wood frame home with hardiplank siding and standard finishes (basic trim, solid-surface countertops, stock cabinets, etc.) should not cost more than $200/sq. foot and can probably be built for a bit lower. A 3-story home requires wind rated windows/doors on all levels or storm shutters, which are both very expensive. Go for the windows--much less headache and not much more expensive than shutters.

Does this price include the lot or is it for home construction only?

[PC Snoop]

I just dont get by here often enough. All points well made in this thread.
Yep, impact windows are significantly more expensive, but who paid the bigger price along the Mississippi coast as a result of Katrina or South Miami after Andrew. The fact is that if you do not prepare for the reasonable worst case scenario you are inviting the worst to happen The residential building code is a political document that is constructed from compromise among competing interests. It has also been described as the minimum standard to not go to jail. Why would you go with the minimum for your home whether it is primary or vacation. A lot of your net worth is tied up in that minimum standard investment.
A building whether residential or commercial is a single monolithic structure. In high winds, that wind is looking for the weak link. It will seek it out. The roof, the eaves ,the walls or doors and windows. Once it can penetrate the envelope of the building it will treat the building like a aircraft wing. Wind force differentials and all. try to tear it apart. The point being that you need to protect the complete envelope of your building. Windows on most homes are the weak link. One high velocity pine cone or your neighbors lawn chair into your window can give the wind the advatage it seeks.
I personally would recommend inmpact windows along 30-A. It is built in protection. If you live elsewhere, you will not be driving against the evactuation flow just to put up shutters. And not hoping that the management compant got by to do it for you. If you live here during hurricane season than the Fabric Shield panels are viable and easy to put up. A lot easier than plywood or metal. If you would like to learn more follow this link and PM me.
http://www.ecosmartinc.com/catwind.php