Instead of Oil offshore....

[Uncle Timmy]

With all the debate raging lately over the possibility of opening up areas of Florida's coastline to oil drilling, what about offshore wind turbines? (Beyond visual range of course).

I wonder how suitable our coast is to the generation of wind power.



Intersesting Links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/4693600.stm

http://ge.ecomagination.com

[Smiling JOe]

With a constant Gulf breeze, it seems very stubborn not to harness the power of the wind. Two words - Big Oil. Visually, I happen to like the looks of windmills. I would rather have a windmill generating power than solar panels. Somewhere along the way, we have lost our path and are corrupting our environment without care and concern. We get too busy lost in the vicious cycle of making money to pay the bills.

Recently, I read an article about some R & D guys creating wind-powered wi-fi stations to help connect the world, regadless of power lines ran in the area. The thought of such things facinates me somewhat.

[jdarg]

I think they are very pretty- they look like birds. And instead of pooping on us like real birds or Big Oil, they are very useful!

[DuneDog]

This would also create great structure for recreational fisherman.

[Bob]

I could see a massive Exxon tanker plowing through the wind turbines.

[Donna]

Windmill farms are a good energy alternative, but the windmills chew up a lot of birds and they also make a lot of noise. Choices, choices...I choose using less energy.

[Smiling JOe]

Windmill farms are a good energy alternative, but the windmills chew up a lot of birds and they also make a lot of noise. Choices, choices...I choose using less energy.Wouldn't more chopped birds be good for the fish hovering below?:idontno:

Just kidding. I've been around the old school windmills that were operating and never heard a sound. How loud are the ones to which you refer, Donna, and what do they sound like?

[DuneDog]

Windmill farms are a good energy alternative, but the windmills chew up a lot of birds and they also make a lot of noise. Choices, choices...I choose using less energy.

I dont know about the birds but who is going to be listening 50 miles offshore?

[Smiling JOe]

I dont know about the birds but who is going to be listening 50 miles offshore?She is probably referring to my post regarding my thoughts of using a windmill to power my home, and general thought of doing this all over the place instead of only off shore. If we each had a windmill, maybe we would reduce the need to pay the electric company so much money. The electric companies would supplement our power as needed. I wonder what my neighborhood would sound like if each home had one of these?

As for the windmills chewing up birds, they would have a difficult time doing so in my neighborhood which has very, very, very few birds, probably having something to do with the pesticides killing many of the insects which the birds may eat and the pesticides covering the seeds or fruits which the birds may eat, thereby killing the birds. :idontno:

[Mermaid]

I could see a massive Exxon tanker plowing through the wind turbines.


I know I shouldn't laugh but I am. The visuals! :eek: The sheer irony of it! :eek: :eek: It's hysterical.

Having said that, I agree with jdarg that they're pretty and graceful looking. And anything that goes toward protecting an environment as lovely as the one we're blessed with should be looked into, tankers notwithstanding.

[jdarg]

This would also create great structure for recreational fisherman.

I don't know a lot about fishing- but would it be the same principal as fish around piers? Do they tend to gather around structures?

[Smiling JOe]

I don't know a lot about fishing- but would it be the same principal as fish around piers? Do they tend to gather around structures?

Bingo! We have a winner! :lol: Yes, fish hang out around structure of any kind. (even oil wells in the Gulf)

[jdarg]

Bingo! We have a winner! :lol: Yes, fish hang out around structure of any kind. (even oil wells in the Gulf)

Believe it or not, I can bait my own hook and take my own fish off the hook, because for some reason, fish like me, and like to go home with me. But my question is really not ansered- why do the fish hang out at piers, etc. More food falling in the water? Protection? I had never really thought about this before.

[Smiling JOe]

Believe it or not, I can bait my own hook and take my own fish off the hook, because for some reason, fish like me, and like to go home with me. But my question is really not ansered- why do the fish hang out at piers, etc. More food falling in the water? Protection? I had never really thought about this before.I did not realize that you were asking why. Yes, they hang out around structures for protection, and the bigger ones come in for dinner.

[DuneDog]

Believe it or not, I can bait my own hook and take my own fish off the hook, because for some reason, fish like me, and like to go home with me. But my question is really not ansered- why do the fish hang out at piers, etc. More food falling in the water? Protection? I had never really thought about this before.

Small fish seek any structure for cover and protection from larger predators. They also feed on the barnicles and other stuff that grows on the platforms legs.

If there are small fish, then big ones are not far.

[southof30A]

http://www.capewind.org/index.php

[beachkids]

Pick your poison. Oil rigs, wind turbines or solar panels. Everybody has their preference. Frankly, the bash "big oil" mantra has gotten old with me. We can blame no one else for the energy situation. We all want to cry about oil prices, pollution, etc. but we still climb into our luxury cars and crank up the AC at the beach house. I am trying to become more self-sufficient and will look to an alternate source/solar power when I build another house. I try to live on a budget and I hate paying big $ for fuel to fill up the car so I do my best to use less. I do not want any oil rigs on the Florida coast, but I don't think I can complain if I don't live accordingly.

[Uncle Timmy]

As a follow up......

I was in Toronto last week and saw they have installed a huge wind turbine on the lake shore. Most interestingly, it was funded by a joint patnership between the local power company and a private co-op. Shareholders in the co-op earn an annual dividend from the sale of the elecricity the turbine produces.

It is a 750 kW turbine (about enough to power about 250 homes) and stands 30 storeys high.

http://www.torontohydro.com/corporate/initiatives/green_power/wind_turbine/index.cfm

http://www.trec.on.ca/windshare/

The turbine was manufactured by a dutch company and cost about 1.6 million to purchase and install. Apparently, in Europe it is becoming common for private co-ops to install wind turbines to power neighborhoods, etc.

Anyone think there is a future for this sort of enterprise here in sowal?

[Smiling JOe]

With some of the beach communities, eg- Seaside, Rosemary Bch, Alys Bch, gaining world-wide prestige for neighborhood design, I think something like this would be great, and could be asthetically pleasing and interesting. Alys Bch, being so green-minded, should have been all over this long ago. Why shouldn't they set the bar?

Storm approaching, collapse the blades on the windmill. Storm passes, pop them back up.

[TooFarTampa]

Intersesting discussion. I'd personally rather see a few birds flying way offshore get chopped up then have the entire planet become uninhabitable due to global warming. Any ideas about alternative energy is a great thing.

Wondering how thick the windmills are and whether they would hold up to major-hurricane force winds? Or would a Cat 4-5 storm be a good thing for energy production? :funn:

Twelve years ago I used to make the drive through the Coachella Valley every day from Yucca Valley, Calif., to work in Riverside. The sight of the wind farms on that drive always made me catch my breath. They don't look weird to me; there's something peaceful and majestic about them. Goofy I know.

[TooFarTampa]

With some of the beach communities, eg- Seaside, Rosemary Bch, Alys Bch, gaining world-wide prestige for neighborhood design, I think something like this would be great, and could be asthetically pleasing and interesting. Alys Bch, being so green-minded, should have been all over this long ago. Why shouldn't they set the bar?

Storm approaching, collapse the blades on the windmill. Storm passes, pop them back up.

DOH! Forget the palm trees ... they shoulda put up windmills!! :rolling:

[TooFarTampa]

Interesting read from last week's CSM ... it doesn't say anything about bird populations hanging around farms that are well offshore. Hmm.



Yellow light for a 'green' energy source
By Mark Clayton | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
Soaring on the wings of new wind-turbine technology, tax breaks, and rising fossil fuel costs, the US wind-power growth picture looks great - except to Edward Arnett, a wildlife biologist who sees a dead bat in it - many thousands of dead bats, actually.

Swatted by wind-turbine blades perhaps 300 feet long and traveling up to 200 miles per hour at the tips, bats in some US regions may be killed by wind farms in greater numbers than previously thought, his industry-funded research shows.

Dead bats are just one of a growing list of concerns that threaten to tarnish wind power's reputation as one of the nation's most promising renewable energy sources. Concerns over the potential impact on migratory songbirds, aesthetic issues like the "shutter effect" of flickering turbine blade shadows, and "view shed" damage from turbines on scenic skylines are growing, observers say.

The nation's first offshore wind farm looks as though it could be blown away. An amendment to a US Coast Guard reauthorization bill, which may be taken up in Congress this week, would ban the big turbines within 1.5 nautical miles of shipping and ferry lanes. Amendment supporters say the turbines are a shipping hazard. Supporters say the real concern is that rich folk on the island of Martha's Vineyard don't want ocean views disrupted.

A nest of other problems that may seem small today could hatch into much bigger ones. Consider the many bird lovers in the United States. How happy would they be if wind turbines killed songbirds?

Birds killed by turbines are now only a tiny fraction of the hundreds of millions killed in collisions with skyscrapers, and by house cats. Yet the wind, wildlife, and aesthetics clash could intensify. The US wind power market is expected to grow by 40 percent this year, according to Emerging Energy Research, a Cambridge, Mass., research firm. The 3,400 megawatts of new capacity could power between 816,000 and 1,020,000 US homes, based on American Wind Energy Association estimates.

"It is now recognized that wind power facilities can have adverse impacts - particularly on wildlife, and most significantly on birds and bats," the General Accountability Office (GAO) reported in September.

Mr. Arnett, a research biologist with Bat Conservation International in Austin, Texas, coordinates an industry-funded research effort. "There's no question the industry will face some tough choices in order to maintain the 'green' image of wind energy," he says.

Where to put wind farms is a big one. As wind farms sprout from the Appalachian Mountains to coastal waters to the vast expanse of North Dakota, signs of resistance are also appearing. A threat to scenic vistas may have undone the Cape Wind project in Massachusetts, but a sterner concern, a lawsuit citing adverse impact on migratory birds, has hit a proposed Virginia wind farm.

Industry officials say such concerns are misplaced, since other forms of power generation do far more harm to the environment. Little is known about bat and bird mortality from wind turbines, they say, and industry studies should help stanch the problem. "We have a better understanding of the nature of the risk today," says Randall Swisher, executive director of the American Wind Energy Association in Washington, D.C. "We're working with turbine manufacturers and developers to learn how to minimize the risk and ensure that, as we build, we're not unduly harming birds and other wildlife."

The same GAO report that cites birds and bat problems concludes ambiguously that, "it does not appear that wind power is responsible for a significant number of bird deaths."

Wind generation has long been one of the great green hopes for pollution-free power. Current wind-generation capacity in the US is about 9,000 megawatts. The industry target is 100,000 megawatts by 2020, according to the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, Colo.

Cheering wind power from the sidelines are a number of environmental groups, including the World Watch Institute and the Audubon Society. Audubon sees traditional power plants as a larger threat than wind turbines.

"We support renewable energy, including wind power," an Audubon spokesman wrote in an e-mail statement. "Renewable energy has a lower overall impact."

National Wind Watch (NWW), organized last year, is skeptical - and vocal. Though it represents only 1,000 activists, mostly in the Northeast, its ranks are growing.

"Unlike other forms of electricity generation, there's very little in the way of regulation to oversee and ensure that the environment is not being harmed," says Lisa Linowes, an NWW spokeswoman. "So little reporting is required, that we don't know the harm being done."

She points to Europe, where wind farms are far more common. Recent reports of eagle and other bird kills are big news in Germany and the United Kingdom, she says. Siting of facilities seems to have been a problem there, as in some US areas like Altamont, Calif., where wind turbines are notorious for killing large raptors.

Wind advocates say a lot has been learned since Altamont about density and siting of wind turbines. Siting remains critical, and Audubon tempers its support by saying reviewing agencies must "conduct a detailed assessment of potential impacts on wildlife."

New wind farms proposed for certain ridge lines in the Appalachian mountains in Virginia could, for instance, chop at already declining populations of migratory songbirds that tend to fly far lower - under 400 feet - than sea birds and raptors, scientists say.

"We could see tens of thousands of birds moving down this range that would be in the hitting range of these turbines," says Mitchell Byrd, professor emeritus of ornithology at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Va., commenting on a proposed development for Highland County, Va. "People say other things kill more birds than turbines. But if someone slaps you five times, it still hurts the sixth time."

The problem is even worse for bats, who seem attracted to turbines, says Arnett. In 2003, he studied bat mortality at a 44-turbine facility in West Virginia owned by FPL Energy of Juno Beach, Fla.

What he and his colleagues found was a shock. In a six-week period, the 44 turbines killed an estimated 1,364 to 1,980 bats - 38 per turbine, according to their study, released last spring. If West Virginia were to build the more than 400 wind turbines currently permitted, research suggests up to 14,500 bats could be killed in a six-week migratory period alone, Arnett says.

There are signs the wind-energy industry is responding. In January, FPL, the nation's largest wind-power utility, announced funding for several new bat conservation efforts. "We're not trying to say wind turbines don't have an impact [on wildlife]," says Steve Stengel, an FPL spokesman. "But if you look at all forms of power generation and compare them, wind stacks up very well."

Bat advocates, too, expect a solution can be found.

"I don't see wind energy and bat conservation as incompatible goals," says Arnett. "This is within our control to alleviate. We just haven't put enough money into solving it."

[Uncle Timmy]

I was as intrigued with the economics of the whole thing as anything else about this particular project. The fact that a group of individuals could form a co-op, sell shares an actually get something like this built is facinating.

At 1.6 million, divided by 250 homes -that's $6,400 per home. Not bad.

I could see a number of these things being built along side Hwy 98 in south Walton. Still close enough to the gulf to take advantage of the daily sea breeze yet wouldn't impact aesthetic concerns along 30-A.

I think it could be a cool 'icon' for south Walton - a line of eco-friendly wind turbines spaced along Hwy 98.

[Smiling JOe]

http://sowal.com/bb/gallery/files/2/1/6/P4180006.JPG

Windmill in Freeport's Hammock's Bay. Now if they would add some more and hook them into the grid.

[ecopal]

In Europe there are windmill farms all over.
But read the following about what could be a break through in wind turbine technology.

Below are excerpts from an article about a vertical axis wind turbine that is under development that could be more efficient, quieter, and less dangerous to birds. It could also be used off shore as well as on land.


Turning wind power on its side

Mar 9th 2006
From The Economist print edition

Energy technology: Wind turbines that rotate about a vertical axis, rather than the usual horizontal one, could have a number of benefits

WIND turbines are springing up in all sorts of places around the world, from China to California, but most of them have the same basic design: the blades rotate about a horizontal axis, as in an old-fashioned windmill. Such turbines can generate electricity at a cost not much higher than non-renewable, fossil-fuel sources—provided the wind is blowing, that is. But if proponents of a rival design are to be believed, electricity can be generated from wind even more cheaply, using turbines that rotate about a vertical axis, like a playground roundabout.

TMA , a company based in Cheyenne, Wyoming, announced in November that its first vertical-axis wind turbine ( VAWT ) would soon be ready for commercial production. The TMA system has two sets of vertical blades. The two inner blades, each shaped like a half-cylinder, catch the wind and rotate about a central axis, while the three outer blades, shaped like aircraft wings, are fixed. The interaction between the two sets of blades causes a drop in pressure in front of the rotating blades' leading edges, which further increases the rate of rotation. TMA claims that its system harvests 43-45% of the wind's available energy; conventional propeller-style turbines, in contrast, have efficiencies of 25-40%.

In winds of more than 80kph (50mph), furthermore, the blades and gearboxes of conventional turbines cannot cope with the strain, and they have to be shut down. TMA says its vertical-axis design can still work even at wind speeds as high as 110kph, however. The ability to harvest high-speed winds is particularly valuable, since each doubling of wind speed results in an eightfold increase in available energy. TMA also claims that its design is quieter and less visually obtrusive than conventional turbines.

A British consortium, Eurowind Developments, which includes VT Group, a shipbuilding and engineering company, and Mott Macdonald, a consultancy, believes VAWT s could be the best design for giant offshore turbines. Such a turbine, with a capacity of ten megawatts, would be able to power around 10,000 homes. Today's largest horizontal-axis turbines produce around five megawatts, and are proving difficult to scale up. ..

... So vertical-axis designs should enable wind turbines to be scaled up more easily, resulting in cheaper electricity, even for VAWT designs of similar efficiency to conventional turbines. “If we can build a ten megawatt turbine for only slightly more than other companies build five megawatt turbines, then the efficiency question goes out of the window,” says Steven Peace of Eurowind.

....

” With plans afoot to build wind farms off the coast of Britain and elsewhere, the fortunes of the VAWT may be about to take a turn for the better."

[Pirate]

What about power produced by ocean wave action? How would everyone feel about giving up certain stretches of beach to produce power?

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/tech/oceanenergy;jsessionid=213D95EDD2FA4C1893C976EFEDC D2B0D

[Uncle Timmy]

Looks like the gulf might actually get some wind turbines afterall.......

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5387574