St Joe's new development

[Smiling JOe]

Just announced on local news:

St Joe is trying to get the ball rolling developing 500 acres of agriculture-zoned land between Tyndell AFB and Mexico Beach. They must get the zoning changed first. JOE hopes to develop something similiar to WaterColor according to the story. The story was on Ch 13 out of Panama City, but it is not on their website as I type. Here (http://www.wmbb.com/)is their website though. You may check it later to see if they post the full story later.

[kurt]

I hear they have gotten a lot of flak from the USAF.

[Uncle Timmy]

According to the Tv news this morning, Tyndall is worried that people will complain about the noise of the jets as this parcel is under the approach to the base.

Also, they reported that over the years, some of their unmanned drone planes had crashed on this land.

Perhaps they can name this community "WaterFalls" and then the thunder of the jet engines can help create that 'sense of place'.

[Miss Kitty]

According to the Tv news this morning, Tyndall is worried that people will complain about the noise of the jets as this parcel is under the approach to the base.

Also, they reported that over the years, some of their unmanned drone planes had crashed on this land.

Perhaps they can name this community "WaterFalls" and then the thunder of the jet engines can help create that 'sense of place'.

Or maybe..."De Plains"

[Paula]

That's REALLY funny Seashore :clap_1: I have to get back to work... but that made my day.

[Smiling JOe]

According to the Tv news this morning, Tyndall is worried that people will complain about the noise of the jets as this parcel is under the approach to the base.

Also, they reported that over the years, some of their unmanned drone planes had crashed on this land.

Perhaps they can name this community "WaterFalls" and then the thunder of the jet engines can help create that 'sense of place'.Sounds like the more appropriate name would be DroneFalls.:idontno:

I remember venturing down to Mexico beach just prior to July 4, the year following 9-11, and the jets were zooming around so much that we packed up and left after being there for only 30 minutes max. Those landing jets reminded me of yellow jackets approaching the landing in their hive. I don't think that the end users will appreciate the extremely loud military aircraft invading their otherwise peaceful and quiet day at the beach.

I think a similar situation is in store for JOE's project RiverCamps which will soon be located just south of Bay County's new International Airport.

[gardening1970]

I think the actual name tossed around is Bonfire Beach, which I think is quite pleasing to the ear.

A nice JOE development could really change the face of Mexico Beach. Good for the tax base and property values. Bad for those who want an affodable family vacation destination. Time will tell.

[Smiling JOe]

I think the actual name tossed around is Bonfire Beach, which I think is quite pleasing to the ear.

A nice JOE development could really change the face of Mexico Beach. Good for the tax base and property values. Bad for those who want an affodable family vacation destination. Time will tell.I don't know if you have visited lately, but Mexico Beach is not the same place it was three short years ago.

[gardening1970]

My grandfather and extended family live in Port St. Joe Beach - a few blocks off of Hwy 98. I concur that Mexico Beach and much of the area have undergone tremendous development in the last few years. I recall condo construction on the west end of Mexico Beach when I visited last April. I'm planning a long weekend in March and eager to see what's new.

Does anyone know the timing for moving 98 in the Windmark area?

[Uncle Timmy]

I think the actual name tossed around is Bonfire Beach


Yikes! See previous comment regarding crashing drones!

[Cil]

My grandfather and extended family live in Port St. Joe Beach - a few blocks off of Hwy 98. I concur that Mexico Beach and much of the area have undergone tremendous development in the last few years. I recall condo construction on the west end of Mexico Beach when I visited last April. I'm planning a long weekend in March and eager to see what's new.

Does anyone know the timing for moving 98 in the Windmark area?
What I have heard is that it should be moved by mid-July. They seem to be working pretty hard at it.
The jets around here don't bother me at all, but then Top Gun is one of my favorite movies, and I have a kid who wants to be a pilot.

[Uncle Timmy]

Hi Cil,

I am curious to know what the locals in Port St. Joe are saying about all the recent development plans for your area.

[montana]

actually I think it's a smart move on St. Joe's part, the way BRAC closures are coming on non-essential bases, that would put them right next to a perfect place to start a new industrial area or clean it up in some future time and put in all the homes you could think of and Tyndall is a very well located base. Just think of it not being milatary?? the only reason they kept it open last time around was for the f22 raptors to train there! even those will become obselete in the near future.

[Cil]

Hi Cil,

I am curious to know what the locals in Port St. Joe are saying about all the recent development plans for your area.
Hi twt512
I've been here about 3 months, so am no expert.
Opinions vary.
Some of the "old school" type folks are still bitter about the paper mill closing.
OTOH, some locals made a lot of money with the higher property values.
People seem excited (in a good way) about the new marina plans.
I think everyone will be a lot happier when there is more infrastructure to go with the fancy properties and fancy prices. It's coming.

[Philip_Atlanta]

From the WMBB site on Feb 10th....

PANAMA CITY - Last Tuesday night, the St. Joe Company made their presentation to the Mexico Beach Planning & Zoning Board to request the re-zoning of 550 acres they currently own between Mexico Beach and Tyndall Air Force Base.

The property is zoned "Timber & Agricultural Use" and St. Joe Company is lobbying for "Tourist Mixed Use." The zoning change would allow the St. Joe Company to pursue their longterm goal of creating an upscale residential and commercial community similar to South Walton County's Watercolor community.

The proximity of this land to Tyndall Air Force Base has prompted some citizens to express their concern. However, Tyndall AFB says it is too early in the process for them to become involved. They issued this statement to News13 on Friday:

"Tyndall leadership is committed to being a good neighbor and strengthening the relationship with local communities and governments while working together to form responsible land uses. We do not engage in local decision-making, but identify issues with development proposals that may be incompatible with military training operations. There is an established process in place and once we are asked to submit our evaluation of any proposals to the state, we will do so at that time, currently it is too early in the process. We will continue to work closely with county and community planners, government leaders, developers and concerned citizens so they are well versed about our operations and can make informed decisions concerning development."

The Mexico Beach Planning and Zoning Board will make their recommendations to the Mexico Beach City Council next Tuesday. If this moves forward, a proposal will the be drafted for the state and it will be the state that then asks Tyndall Air Force Base for their evaluations.

[fisshforfun]

A couple of years ago I made the mistake of purchasing a lot in the prestigious Watersound St. Joe development here in South Walton County. After years of trying to get plans approved by their design and review process, tons of headaches, threats of $2500.00 per month fines for not stating a project on time, a total disrespect of owners, I could never recommended anyone to purchase a lot in a St. Joe development! Even though you are forced to select an approved Watersound architect, the Watersound DRB committee jerks every lot owner around for months at a time. There is an official pattern book, but this committee only uses it for reference, so owners and architects are left with becoming mind readers! There is no parity or equitable toward their reviews, and you can expect your plans to have to be redrawn at least a half dozen times. Guess its job security of the architects (and the DRB board members) who on average charge 10% of total build out costs. No one in the sales office will tell you that there is over 80 lots for resale, nor do they mention to potential buyers to expect several years of headaches in the DRB process before you can expect approval to build! No wonder there are over 80 lots of sale in the Watersound development! They sell you a lot and then do everything they can to make sure you never start your home just so they can collect $2500.00/month when you pass their deadline! I have even heard of lot owners whom are giving away lots to charity just to avoid stiff penalties. The state of Florida needs to be investigating this specific St. Joe development because you would think its either a borderline scam or fraud with respect of how they are treating lot owners! Personally, I recommend anyone to think twice before every purchasing a lot in any St. Joe development!

[Paula]

:welcome: Fishforfun

Yikes. Does anyone have any other experiences with St. Joe developments, especially Watersound? Any good experiences? Thanks.

[iqueequeg]

We're building on our lot in Watersound now. I must say we had no problems at all. Our initial plan had to be revised, but we knew it might be because we were pushing the allowable sq. ft. limits on our lot, and they accepted the first revision no problem. I'm sorry you had such problems. I must say, I'm a little puzzled by the way Watersound has played out. We bought the lot for a second home, which I would have assumed is why the majority of people bought there, it's a beautiful setting. The only reason we didn't build sooner (we've been approved for over a year) is that no one else seems to be building and we didn't want to be surrounded by construction any longer than necessary. I understand some investors are buying those lots and waiting to build, but I don't understand why only a very small proportion of lots are starting construction after more than 4 years. My 2 cents.

[Rita]

:welcome: Fishforfun

Sounds gruesome!

You state: "They sell you a lot and then do everything they can to make sure you never start your home just so they can collect $2500.00/month when you pass their deadline!" .

I know very little about Watersound, but this doesn't sound logical .... are you sure this is not exaggeration? I really can't imagine this being done .... How would they stay in business? Surely someone else knows if this is factual. :idontno:

[Amp22]

FFF - I call BS. Not every owner has problems. Sounds like you and your architect couldn't follow directions, and that you have a giant axe to grind. Do it somewhere else because I'm not buying.

[Uncle Timmy]

A couple of years ago I made the mistake of purchasing a lot in the prestigious Watersound St. Joe development here in South Walton County. After years of trying to get plans approved by their design and review process, tons of headaches, threats of $2500.00 per month fines for not stating a project on time, a total disrespect of owners, I could never recommended anyone to purchase a lot in a St. Joe development! Even though you are forced to select an approved Watersound architect, the Watersound DRB committee jerks every lot owner around for months at a time. There is an official pattern book, but this committee only uses it for reference, so owners and architects are left with becoming mind readers! There is no parity or equitable toward their reviews, and you can expect your plans to have to be redrawn at least a half dozen times. Guess its job security of the architects (and the DRB board members) who on average charge 10% of total build out costs. Personally, I recommend anyone to think twice before every purchasing a lot in any St. Joe development!

I'm reluctant to get in the middle of this but.....

as I deal with the Watercolor/St. Joe review boards and their approval process frequently maybe I can shed a little light on this subject.

First, Watercolor is by far the most difficult community to get your house plans approved in our area.

But, most homeowners, working with experienced architects who have worked with the St. Joe review board before will get their plans through the review process in about 3-4 months.

Of the projects I have been involved with in Watercolor:

60% went smoothly
30% involved several revisions and re-submittals
10% were nightmares!

I don't doubt FFF's experiences, and I can relate to it; but I can say it is not typical of the average review process.

When dealing with a St. Joe development, keep the following in mind:

1) Give yourself a realistic timeframe for completing the review process. Many homeowners wait until their build-out date is looming and try a last minute sprint to get their house underway.

2) Accept the fact that it is a heavily regulated community, and when the review board DEMANDS that you follow certain guidelines, they are not picking on you personally.

3) Either work with an architect who is experienced with the St. Joe review process, or accept that it will take longer to get your plans approved. There are many quirks about working with their ARB that are not in the rulebook (as FFF mentioned) so it helps to have done it before.

[fisshforfun]

Rita and AMP22, I have no ax to grind, just trying to help other prevent making the same mistake of ever purchasing in a St. Joe development without informed knowledge of what to expect. I have been also told the DRB process is much easier to pass in Watercolor than Watersound. I assure you my architect has been drawing plans for Watersound and Watercolor since both developments were started. Found out today that the Watersound sales staff is finally being honest with informing potential buyers to expect ONE YEAR minimum in the DRB! If you don't believe me, stop by the WS sales office. The original sales staff are no longer working there, but the new folks appear to telling potential buyers everything, except that there are over 80 lots for resale. Every owners meeting Watersound has had over the past two years there have been angry owners upset about the lengthy DRB process. I don't anticipate any changes or improvements occurring in this development until St. Joe has to deal with litigation from numerous property owners over the unequitable DRB process or the State of Florida. In fact, I have been informed that the state will be putting the magnifying glass to this development very soon. I am glad to hear others have been more fortunate, consider yourself lucky. I personally think St. Joe should have stuck with the lumbar and stayed out of development business.

[kurt]

fisshforfun - thanks for clarifying and giving more details.

Why would the sales staff not tell people how many lots are for sale and what difference does it make? I'm not sure what the problem is. Can you clarify?

You have an extra S. Do you want me to remove one?

[Smiling JOe]

... The original sales staff are no longer working there, but the new folks appear to telling potential buyers everything, except that there are over 80 lots for resale. ...

FYI - The information that can legally be given to a customer by a sales associtate is controlled and limited, depending on the type of Broker Relationship you have with the Broker. For example, acting as a Transaction Broker, it is unlawful to run comps for a customer without the customer asking for the comps. Once they ask, the Sales Associate can run the comps. No ask, no get, unless your agent is acting as a Single Agent, which limits the properties he or she can show you. The whole Agency Type process is somewhat confusing to most people, including many Realtors. Most agents around here act as a Transaction Broker, at least until the laws change again in 2008, hopefully making it all much easier to understand.

[Bob]

SJ, In your experience, do most Realtors become transaction brokers for the good of their client, or their own good[to avoid litigation]?

[Smiling JOe]

SJ, In your experience, do most Realtors become transaction brokers for the good of their client, or their own good[to avoid litigation]?Typically, the Broker establishes as a rule, the type of brokerage relationship with which they want to do business. In FL, it is assumed that the relationship is a Transaction Broker, unless otherwise noted.

The transaction brokerage allows an agent to show the listings held by their brokerage in addition to other broker's listings.

As a Single Agency, an agent cannot show their in house listings, without first, having the client sign the Transition to Transaction Broker Notice, thereby making the Brokerage relationship a Transaction Broker.

The big difference in duties between the two is a Single Agency has the duty of loyalty to the client, while a Transaction cannot favor one side of a transaction (ie-buyer or seller) over the other.

A third type of brokerage relationship is a "no-representation," in which the duties of the agent to the customer are very limited. Some discount brokerages are using this as they take listing which they do nothing more with than entering the listing in the MLS. Many Developers are also using this for their in-house sales. Liability on the agent/broker's behalf is extremely limited. (note: developers often use it because technically, there is some loyalty to one side -- the developer, and if loyalty is present on one side of the deal, it has to be non-existant on the other.

In 2008, expect all broker relationships to be Transaction Brokers, without the need to disclose to a customer.

All of these disclosures were created to try and protect the customers and clients from the Agents, but they really caused way too much confusion in the process and there are several inconsitancies in the whole thing which do not make logical sense.

Going back to my previous post, if an agent working under the Transaction Broker, provides certain information without being asked by the customer, it could be more easily believed by the customer that the agent was representing the customer as a Single Agency, giving advice to the "client." As a Transaction Broker, an agent is not allowed to give advice, but many agents are so confused by all of this stuff, that they fail to get it correct, and are more likely to have more liabilty in certain circumstances. If you really want to test your agent and get a laugh, ask them to tell you the difference between the three Brokerage Relationships. Even some of the long time pros will stumble, showing you the confusion of the subject. Rarely, will you get the same answer twice, even when asking the same agent.

[Bob]

SJ, we live in the golden age of lawyers. Thanks..

[fisshforfun]

Kurt, the reason why the sales department at Watersound is not informing potential buyers in Watersound about the other 80+ lots is because, those are re-sale lots..ie. not new sales. There responsibility is for selling lots and making money for St. Joe Development.

[Hobiecat]

There are some valid points on both sides of this argument. We are under construction in Watersound, just made the buildout deadline in December. However, we purchased the lot on resale with approved plans. In talking w/ the architect, approval was not the easiest process, but as a property owner, there is a certain amount of that which I appreciate. Our only dealings with the DRB and St. Joe were getting a builder approved and getting a height variance on the design, both of which were handled very professionally by St. Joe.

[gardening1970]

Mexico Beach City Council sending annexation proposal to state for review; resident voices his disapproval


By Ryan Burr
News Herald Writer 747-5074 / rburr@pcnh.com
MEXICO BEACH

The Mexico Beach City Council on Tuesday took another procedural step toward allowing a land-use change on St. Joe Co. property near Tyndall Air Force Base for mixed-use development.
The Planning and Zoning Board last week recommended sending the land-use change proposal to the state for review, and the council Tuesday night affirmed that consensus.
Although the council, meeting in the civic center, called its action procedural, Bay County resident Peter Rougier said during public comment: “What you’re doing tonight, in essence, is you’re approving it. Once you transmit it (to the state), it’s over.”
Rougier had told the council he was opposed to St. Joe’s plans to build 70,000 square feet of commercial space and 750 residential units, plus “significant trails and parks” on 550 acres between the base and Mexico Beach.
St. Joe has requested the city annex the 550 acres and switch it from agriculture-timberland to a new classification of mixed-use/tourist and preservation. There were about 60 people at the meeting, including a strong contingent of residents who are wary of the proposed development.
With a proposed density of two units per acre and a 48-foot height limit, St. Joe representatives at the meeting said the development will compliment the existing community character.
Councilman Robert Ginsberg was willing to lay his political future on the line over the issue.
“You’re going to have drugstores, doctors,” he said. “Think of the benefits. … We will not let you down. You can throw me out of office (if the development harms Mexico Beach).”
Mayor Chuck Risinger offered more specific input on the proposal Tuesday night, setting the record straight on what he viewed as misinformation getting to some residents.
He said Tyndall already has been consulted about the project and will continue to have a chance to share concerns.
With 48-foot-high buildings, he said Tyndall does not see a negative impact on their flight path. “Noise may be an issue,” Risinger said.
On the subject of sewer capacity and other infrastructure demands, Risinger said “we think we ultimately may have a shortage,” although it’s too early to know for sure.
“It’s up to the developer to ensure those needs are met,” he said.
Risinger also acknowledged that Mexico Beach residents who don’t have a homestead exemption could face “a lot higher taxes” as a result of the St. Joe development.
Once the state Department of Community Affairs receives the land-use change document, it has 60 days to respond. Included in that response will be comments from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, Tyndall Air Force Base, the West Florida Regional Planning Council and other agencies.

[fisshforfun]

I would like to respond to TWT512" post regarding the DRB process within the Watersound Development. He states just 10% have a negative experience, and suggest with the correct architect, the process should be much smoother. The problem I have with this statement is that owners are required to use ONLY their approved list of architects! Now I don't understand, how or why if Watersound DRB requires one to use only the approved Watersound architects that there should even be 10% (which is extremely low cause I know at least 15 very unhappy owners). Like other owners, I took my time and interviewed several approved architects. I made my choice based on his prior experience within Watercolor and other developments. When I began my quest to build in Watersound, other than Mr. Christ, no one else had even began a home in Watersound. Its obvious some architects are allowed the right to ignore the DRB pattern book, while others like myself have to adhere not only to the guide book, but in addition to the subjective opinions and personal taste's of the DRB board. Would have been nice to have had the opportunity to have one the architects who have been allowed to work outside the DRB pattern book and guidelines, however two years into the process, its a little to late to change. I guess the moral to the story is before you purchase a lot in a St. Joe development, try to find out which architects on the approved list are allowed to work outside their guide book and get the "DRB rubber stamp of approval", otherwise expect a lot of headaches and problems. It would be extremely helpful if the Watersound DRB could put little astrict's by those architects names so owners and their families are subjected to their abuse!

[Hobiecat]

fishforfun, did you use a builder already approved by St. Joe or did you bring in your own? We talked with a couple of "approved" builders, but ended up saving a significant amount by getting our own builder approved.

[Uncle Timmy]

I would like to respond to TWT512" post regarding the DRB process within the Watersound Development. He states just 10% have a negative experience, and suggest with the correct architect, the process should be much smoother. The problem I have with this statement is that owners are required to use ONLY their approved list of architects! Now I don't understand, how or why if Watersound DRB requires one to use only the approved Watersound architects that there should even be 10% (which is extremely low cause I know at least 15 very unhappy owners). Like other owners, I took my time and interviewed several approved architects. I made my choice based on his prior experience within Watercolor and other developments. When I began my quest to build in Watersound, other than Mr. Christ, no one else had even began a home in Watersound. Its obvious some architects are allowed the right to ignore the DRB pattern book, while others like myself have to adhere not only to the guide book, but in addition to the subjective opinions and personal taste's of the DRB board. Would have been nice to have had the opportunity to have one the architects who have been allowed to work outside the DRB pattern book and guidelines, however two years into the process, its a little to late to change.

...And that's why I was reluctant to get in the middle of this -clearly some emotions are running a bit hot. Again, I have a lot of experience dealing with these communities and feel like I could present a balanced opinion on the process.

FFF, you need to accept that your experience is not typical. Again, I don't doubt your troubles, I have even had similar experiences. The majority have been smooth.

I wouldn't get to worked up about the 'Approved List' for either architects or builders. It isn't difficult to get on either list. Just because a firm is listed on the 'approved list' does not mean they have ever permited a house there. Work with an experienced architect.(Your experience suggests otherwise but I think the advice still stands as valid.)

I don't know of any architects who are allowed to work outside the guidebook and have an automatic "ARB Stamp of Approval".

I will agree that St. Joe's approval process needs to be overhauled. They have one of the largest, full-time review boards around and that always proves problematic. Those folks need to justify their jobs afterall.

[kurt]

Kurt, the reason why the sales department at Watersound is not informing potential buyers in Watersound about the other 80+ lots is because, those are re-sale lots..ie. not new sales. There responsibility is for selling lots and making money for St. Joe Development.

Please consider these honest questions. Just trying to understand the whole issue.

So the other lots, for resale, are listed by other Realtors? Presumably at prices lower than the new lots, but possibly higher? So if someone walks in to the WS sales office looking for a lot then the sales associate should show them all the lots for sale in the development regardless of who lists them? What if a lot listed by someone else is less expensive but only has 6 months left until the buildout deadline?

Do you think a buyer is going to pay one million for a lot from St. Joe when there is one comparable for $950k next to it? If so, is it unethical of the salesperson to write the contract? Is the free market not at work?

Also - aren't St. Joe's sales reps employees or agents of St. Joe and their responsibility is to sell the lots owned by St. Joe, not others? Wouldn't any buyer in WaterSound be savvy enough to know what the score is?

What about buyer beware and due diligence, or just plain common sense?

[Smiling JOe]

Kurt, the reason why the sales department at Watersound is not informing potential buyers in Watersound about the other 80+ lots is because, those are re-sale lots..ie. not new sales. There responsibility is for selling lots and making money for St. Joe Development.If JOE's sales staff are not licensed sales associates, and they are not required to be, I don't believe they can show any listings outside of the lots owned by JOE.

I would be very upset if I asked an agent or St Joe sales rep to see the entire list of lots available in WS, and they showed me only their lots. However, if you don't ask the question, you should not expect an answer.

As a Realtor, I listen to the customer to hear the type of property for which they are looking, then I try to narrow the search for them. If presented with 100s of homes to look at, the potential buyer would quickly feel overwhelmed. As a buyer, I would rather look at a handful that fit my criteria, and I would ask for the price ranges for all the properties that fit the characteristics of my home of preference.

I am not privy to the details of your encounter with the sales staff at WS, so it is difficult to know the why behind their method of practice. It sounds like your story is one of those nightmares which fortunately, only on occasion I hear.

[monty]

A couple of years ago I made the mistake of purchasing a lot in the prestigious Watersound St. Joe development here in South Walton County. After years of trying to get plans approved by their design and review process, tons of headaches, threats of $2500.00 per month fines for not stating a project on time, a total disrespect of owners, I could never recommended anyone to purchase a lot in a St. Joe development! Even though you are forced to select an approved Watersound architect, the Watersound DRB committee jerks every lot owner around for months at a time. There is an official pattern book, but this committee only uses it for reference, so owners and architects are left with becoming mind readers! There is no parity or equitable toward their reviews, and you can expect your plans to have to be redrawn at least a half dozen times. Guess its job security of the architects (and the DRB board members) who on average charge 10% of total build out costs. No one in the sales office will tell you that there is over 80 lots for resale, nor do they mention to potential buyers to expect several years of headaches in the DRB process before you can expect approval to build! No wonder there are over 80 lots of sale in the Watersound development! They sell you a lot and then do everything they can to make sure you never start your home just so they can collect $2500.00/month when you pass their deadline! I have even heard of lot owners whom are giving away lots to charity just to avoid stiff penalties. The state of Florida needs to be investigating this specific St. Joe development because you would think its either a borderline scam or fraud with respect of how they are treating lot owners! Personally, I recommend anyone to think twice before every purchasing a lot in any St. Joe development!

I have heard of both nightmares and good stories about the DRB process. But, I agree with FFN that the majority of stories are negative. There are several buildersand architects in WS and WC that are very frustrated with the process--its not just the owners. Given what I have heard, I would not look forward to building from scratch.

That said, the DRB certainly is making sure that both of these communities are beautifully laid out. The communities are very well done.

[Smiling JOe]

My brother has built and is building several homes in WC, and he has never had any major setbacks or problems with JOE. I know other builders that would ditto his remarks. I understand your frustrations with JOE, but understand that your situation is not the norm.

[crabbydick]

My partners and I tried to get house plans approved to build in St. Joes Watersound development. Their DRB process is inefficent, drove our architect nuts and made everyone’s life miserable. The process and development appeared to lack direction and leadership. We gave up and sold our lot last year before the storms hit. Made money, but I don’t see how anyone can expect to get plans approved to build in that development under its current system. Not sure if I would ever purchase another lot in any future St. Joe project again.

[kurt]

My partners and I tried to get house plans approved to build in St. Joes Watersound development. Their DRB process is inefficent, drove our architect nuts and made everyone’s life miserable. The process and development appeared to lack direction and leadership. We gave up and sold our lot last year before the storms hit. Made money, but I don’t see how anyone can expect to get plans approved to build in that development under its current system. Not sure if I would ever purchase another lot in any future St. Joe project again.

Fishforfun - I sent you a PM the last two times you did this. You can register as many aliases as you want, but if you are doing it just to gind your ax you will get banned. Last warning. :nono1:

[Cork On the Ocean]

Fishforfun - I sent you a PM the last two times you did this. You can register as many aliases as you want, but if you are doing it just to gind your ax you will get banned. Last warning. :nono1:

Fishforfun, you'll find honest communication here on both sides and I can certainly understand your frustration but must play nice! Don't get banned we appreciate your input and experiences.

Regarding the selective listings given by JOE salespeople. Many may be unaware that some brokers pay a higher commission split to agents for selling "inhouse" listings meaning that their agents make more for selling you property that is listed with their broker. I don't know if this is the case with JOE. I don't think it's in the buyer's best interest and don't subscribe to it but on the other hand, as a broker, I also feel an obligation to my clients that have listed with me to do everything I can to sell their property. This is the dilemma of a transaction broker. The only solution that I know is to offer a 50/50 split on the commission with the selling side so that I can put as much on the table for all agents (not only my own) to sell our listings but the transaction broker agency does present problems as SJ noted.

Regarding DRB's. I'm on the Seacrest Beach DRB which is granted, not nearly as cumbersome. You are correct, however, that the process is VERY subjective. Even though the code proscribes guidelines, the subjectivity is necessary to prevent people from putting bright orange houses with purple trim and because variances are sometime logistically necessary. I can say though, that there are also many "approved" builders (not architects so much) that are nightmares to work with. They don't complete homes as approved, often surreptitiously, they pirate owner's utilities, and infringe on other's enjoyment of their property during construction. They are also sometimes property owners of many community parcels which compounds the problem. These builder's have a track record, we've been working with them for months (maybe years) to resolve problems that they've created. Rather than kick them out and enter into litigation with the homeowner's monies, we watch every move they make very closely and make sure that every i is dotted so that there's no wiggle room for them to say, "it wasn't clear" or "you said I could do that". I don't know your situation but sometimes the fact that someone has built many homes in a subdivision doesn't mean that they are in good standing. In fact, just the opposite - they may have many skeletons and homeowner complaints. Again, don't know if this had anything to do with your experience, but it happens a lot. JOE's design codes (and their DRBS) are responsible for beautiful communities and I can only say that sometimes things aren't always as they seem. Do they need revamped? Probably. A year is an inordinate amount of time. Our plans are reviewed within 2 weeks of being presented because we meet every 2 weeks. We redline changes and if they are made, there's no reason that they aren't approved at next meeting. I'm not saying that Seacrest Beach is the same calibre as Watersound, Watercolor, Rosemary etc but it's a fine community and we work hard to try to make sure that the homeowner gets what they pay for.

That's my 2 cents :biggrin:

[John R]

Fishforfun - You can register as many aliases as you want, but if you are doing it just to gind your ax you will get banned.

weak. can't make your point with one screen name? i didn't think a minor could enter into a real estate transaction. bye.


jr

[Smiling JOe]

weak. can't make your point with one screen name? i didn't think a minor could enter into a real estate transaction. bye.


jrA minor can be one party to a real estate contract, but the contract may be voidable by the minor only.

[southof30A]

Fishforfun - I sent you a PM the last two times you did this. You can register as many aliases as you want, but if you are doing it just to gind your ax you will get banned. Last warning. :nono1:
What is this dude doing that causes a threat to be banned?

Just trying to learn the Man's rules here...

[Smiling JOe]

There are no rules, until people begin mucking it up, so don't muck it up.

[kurt]

What is this dude doing that causes a threat to be banned?

Just trying to learn the Man's rules here...

One person is registering under several different names and posting the same sort of negative message about the company/development in question. Trying to make us believe that lots of different people have the same problems.

[Advance The Man]

They are all State of Florida licensed agents. You would only typically see a non-licensed person if they were not commissioned and only property available for sale is the owner (like Joe).

The sales staff has a responsibility to the owner (Joe), but a greater responsibility to keeping his/her license. FREC (http://www.myflorida.com/dbpr/re/frec_welcome.shtml) administers and enforces the real estate license law

If JOE's sales staff are not licensed sales associates, and they are not required to be, I don't believe they can show any listings outside of the lots owned by JOE.

[southof30A]

One person is registering under several different names and posting the same sort of negative message about the company/development in question. Trying to make us believe that lots of different people have the same problems.
Thanks - that makes way more sense than to me now than "There are no rules, until people begin mucking it up, so don't muck it up.."

[Bob]

A minor can be one party to a real estate contract, but the contract may be voidable by the minor only.SJ, that sounds suspiciously like a state licensing test question. Either that, or you definitely should be an attorney!

[Smiling JOe]

SJ, that sounds suspiciously like a state licensing test question. Either that, or you definitely should be an attorney!
:oops: Thanks, but I could never stoop so low. (Did I type that? :shock:) just kidding. I must still be in licensing mode. It is definitely test question material.